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> "Greater China" Irredentist pro-war language, Tim Cook? I am so done with Apple. They knew what they did when they chose the words; they certainly spent thou

> "Greater China" Irredentist pro-war language, Tim Cook? I am so done with Apple. They knew what they did when they chose the words; they certainly spent thousands of hours deliberating them. This is Lebensraum with Chinese Characteristics. > "The term is often used to avoid invoking sensitivities over the political status of Taiwan.[16] Contrastingly, it has been used in reference to Chinese irredentism in nationalist contexts, such as the notion that China should reclaim its "lost territories" to create a Greater China.[17][18]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_China

theturtle32 1y ago
Today I heard the word "Irredentist" for the first time as I'm about to turn 42.
- hmry 1y ago
  Me too. I've always just heard that kind of thing called "imperialist". But "irredentist" seems more precise.
testfrequency 1y ago
Just like how they removed all the gay dating apps in China yesterday (by request of the government of course). So sad to watch a gay CEO just sit comfortably and allow his company quietly destroy his own “community”. Don’t get me started on SA either…
- cactusplant7374 1y ago
  He did give a tour of Apple HQ to MBS. But maybe they think they can do more good than harm by selling products in Saudi.
- ronsor 1y ago
  > Just like how they removed all the gay dating apps in China yesterday (by request of the government of course). Those apps have always been illegal in China. Of course, one could say Apple should not operate in China (and this is perhaps true), but they cannot both operate there and break the law.
  - voidmain 1y ago
    Apple could choose to give the users of their devices freedom to run whatever operating systems and programs they choose. Then they could truthfully say that there is no way for them to control what people do with their devices once they leave the Apple store. If you put yourself in control of such things because it is profitable, you ought to take responsibility for the consequences.
    - BurningFrog 1y ago
      China could also make that illegal, and probably has. You're never going to outsmart the Chinese government with clever little tricks. They don't play like that.
      - sabatonfan 1y ago
        Can china make linux illegal?
        raincole 1y ago
        They can make iPhone illegal. Would they? Unlikely, given iPhone creates a lot of jobs there. But if iPhone becomes the de facto devices for Chinese citizens to access illegal content then the chance is none-zero. (And of course they can make Linux illegal too. It's just harder to enforce than making iPhone illegal.)
        dhosek 1y ago
        What makes you think they wouldn’t if they felt it would be useful? Or more likely, require a particular government-endorsed Linux.
        bitwize 1y ago
        If Brazil can, China can.
        sabatonfan 1y ago
- fennecfoxy 1y ago
  This is why, as a gay man, I give people a look when they ask why I still rant about gay rights "even though you guys have marriage and stuff now". It's 2025, almost 2026 and we're still doing this shit. I don't care if you think I'm icky, I think other people are icky sometimes but I don't try to stop them from existing for it. People are entitled to be who they are.
  - testfrequency 1y ago
    Most hetero people will never (thankfully) know that pitted feeling of having to check your surroundings and environment every single day when you simply want to hold your partners hand, chat to a coworker, book a hotel reservation, or book a night out to celebrate. Every single macro outcome like this only demoralizes gay people just wanting to wake up and not think about anything other than the stresses and excitement of the day ahead. If anyone reads this and you think it sounds dramatic, it’s not. It’s a reality, and Tim Cook knows that..he should do better.
    - NickC25 1y ago
      >It’s a reality, and Tim Cook knows that..he should do better. You say that, but he's made billions by explicitly not doing better. And he's Wall Street's darling for it.
    - jimbokun 1y ago
      Tim Cook has no ability to change the Chinese government's policies.
      - bigyabai 1y ago
        Untrue and defeatist. Tim Cook does influence Chinese policy, you can't pretend he's the victim here: EU: Tim Cook will *leave your economic zone* if you fraudulently label him as a monopolist, okay? If your government doesn't change, Apple won't bless your economy. China: There's just nothing we could do. When they asked to backdoor iCloud we couldn't make any demands from them. They constantly demand authoritarian control and *never* let us say a single word. We're being abused, someone help us!
- sabatonfan 1y ago
  I didn't know that tim cook was gay and here is one message from wikipedia I want to quote > In June 2014, Cook attended San Francisco's gay pride parade along with a delegation of Apple staff.[85] On October 30, Cook publicly came out as gay in an editorial for Bloomberg Business, saying, "I'm proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me."[86] While it had been reported in early 2011 that Cook was gay,[87][88] at the time, Cook tried to keep his personal life private I feel like Tim Cook should be a man of his words and try to actually help the community he is proud to be in but I am sure that investors might not be happy but that just goes on to show that maybe even some CEO's could be puppets of shareholders and can be forced to do things solely for profit where their heart might not lie. I think that another point is that shareholders can also be puppets of CEO's in the case of Elon musk 1 Trillion $ deal shows that imo I feel like we live in the times where morality can be side-lined for profit and be celebrated. The whole idea why even people can be puppets of each other could be because they get profits and power and influence because of it (basically money most of the times) But what power do those CEO's have if they can't stand for what they think is right or educate themselves on these matters. Food for thought. > virtue was not convenient at the time Maybe we live just in such times.
  - jimbokun 1y ago
    Tim Cook has no ability to change the Chinese government's policies.
    - underlipton 1y ago
      "No" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The things he could do would be very painful, maybe a Pyrrhic victory. Maybe they're worth it if the alternative is aiding an abetting authoritarian regime. I'm not casting judgment, just presenting the options. Which do actually exist.
      - jimbokun 1y ago
        The things he could do would not change the policies implemented by the Chinese government.
- sneak 1y ago
  You can’t fight City Hall. The iPhone is a Chinese product. China ultimately controls whether or not the iPhone exists. No place else on earth can manufacture 20,000 iPhones an hour, 24/7/365. Making two hundred million devices of the iPhone’s complexity and quality is not a trivial matter, and takes tens of thousands of skilled (and experienced) workers. Almost all of those people are Chinese, in China, subject to Chinese law. Apple cannot meaningfully fight Chinese law. “sit comfortably” is a big stretch here. I imagine it must upset him as much or perhaps more than it does you and I. We, after all, can speak publicly about how upsetting it is. He cannot.
  - xp84 1y ago
    > must upset him as much or perhaps more than it does you and I. We, after all, can speak publicly about how upsetting it is. He cannot. Yes, he will just have to comfort himself by crying into his pillow made of solid gold bars on his California King-size bed made of a solid block of hundred dollar bills. Poor Tim Apple — the real victim here. In seriousness, even if he feels (and is right!) that there was nothing Apple could do better, nothing stops him from resigning, and then publicly stating that he didn’t want to be a part of a company that had to collaborate with a brutal and inhumane government. He just would rather acquire more billions for some reason.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  > So sad to watch a gay CEO just sit comfortably and allow his company quietly destroy his own “community” His community are elites and money.
blahgeek 1y ago
I think it's a common term used to loosely describe the geographical region. It's used by many other companies like Microsoft [1] and Google [2] [1] https://careers.microsoft.com/v2/global/en/locations/gcr.html https://careers.microsoft.com/v2/global/en/locations/gcr.htm... [2] https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-apac/collections/greater-china/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-apac/collections/gre...
- thoroughburro 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - jama211 1y ago
    Well put.
- perihelions 1y ago
  It's a large step up from "it's used for job postings in (or closely working with) mainland China", to "it's featured in Apple product announcements targeting a global audience of millions". Has it been used in an Apple product announcement before? My search is imperfect, but I actually can't find an example (on their /newsroom subdomain). As recently as two months ago, with the Airphone announcement, they weren't doing this: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-air-a-powerful-new-iphone-with-a-breakthrough-design/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-ai... ("Introducing iPhone Air, a powerful new iPhone with a breakthrough design") > "The 40W Dynamic Power Adapter with 60W Max will be available in Canada, China mainland, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, the Philippines, and the U.S."
  - saaaaaam 1y ago
    Apple seems to have been using "Greater China" for a number of years, going by the newsroom section of their site. 2016 - "Users in Greater China will see these new features by default on iOS and OS X® after updating." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/05/17Apple-Celebrates-Chinese-Music-with-GarageBand-Update/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/05/17Apple-Celebrates-Ch... 2019 - "The New Artist of the Week program provides new talent with a prominent platform across greater China for their work to be discovered." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/HomePod-available-in-china-starting-friday-january-18/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/HomePod-available-in-... 2020 - "First, I want to recognize Apple’s family in Greater China. Though the rate of infections has dramatically declined, we know COVID-19’s effects are still being strongly felt. I want to express my deep gratitude to our team in China for their determination and spirit. As of today, all of our stores in Greater China have reopened." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/apples-covid-19-response/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/apples-covid-19-respo... 2024 - "Today, Apple has 57 stores in Greater China, with thousands of team members delivering exceptional service and creating magical experiences for customers." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/apple-jingan-to-welcome-its-first-customers-thursday-march-21-in-shanghai/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/apple-jingan-to-welco...
groundzeros2015 1y ago
Not engaging in political fights outside your circle of influence is actually good for business and responsible leadership.
- reaperducer 1y ago
  "Good for business" is not the highest goal a human can achieve. Not even close. Start with "do the right thing" and progress from there.
  - groundzeros2015 1y ago
    - What do you desire from professionals you hire? - is performative naming of countries that hurt your relationships “the right thing” - is business where we achieve our highest goals as humans?
    - reaperducer 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - kps 1y ago
        > What flavor are hydrogen protons? Sour. A high concentration of hydrogen protons (low pH) tastes sour.
  - 1121redblackgo 1y ago
    I'd rather we drop the pretense or expectations that corporations have anything but one goal. That will help us direct our energy to where it can actually be productive. If the marketplace demands better corporate stewardship, and people vote with their wallet, and companies decides to change then great, but the corporate ship is only ever getting steered in one direction and it's not for noble reasons.
  - 1y ago
AndrewKemendo 1y ago
History shows without exception that authoritarianism and commerce are bedfellows. I’m unaware of any for profit business interest over all of known history that hasn’t bent the knee to the desires of an authoritarian government
sneak 1y ago
The CCP has Apple hostage. Their products are (effectively) all made there. China has more control over Apple than the US does, at present. They are, of course, in crash override priority mode trying to change that, but nowhere else on earth can manufacture (on average) 20,000 iPhones per hour, 24/7/365. (TBH it’s probably closer to 50k per hour in the months up to release day.) The iPhone is a Chinese product, made by tens of thousands of Chinese people, on machines in China, subject to Chinese jurisdiction and law. That’s an uncomfortable fact for the US economy. If Apple doesn’t do exactly what China wants them to do, the iPhone does not exist, and Apple as we know it today does not exist.
- jajuuka 1y ago
  US government has FAR more control over Apple as a company. China only has control of the Chinese operations. The president is personally beefing with companies and buying stakes in them. The tariffs alone could have severely hurt Apple, but Apple bent over backwards to appease the president. The US government can simply request an app be removed and Apple and Google will do it worldwide. China does not have that power over Apple. China can threaten Apple but they have already diversified their manufacturing to other countries so China does not have a strangle hold on the supply line.
  - thenthenthen 1y ago
    Apple has to comply by Mainland rules. In addition to the supplychain that is slowly getting diversified, all Mainland customer data is handled by a co-owned (not sure %, or if it is 100% outsourced) datacenter in Guizhou.
wat10000 1y ago
They've been using this term for years. It's nothing new and nothing unique to Apple. Don't forget that the "we are the only legitimate Chinese government and we own it all" attitude is shared by both Chinese governments. The PRC claims Taiwan, but Taiwan claims all of China as well.
- 1-more 1y ago
  Taiwan claimed Mongolia until 2002!
kossTKR 1y ago
Your comment is the actual prowar propaganda though in my europeean eyes. The US is worse than China in many aspects, from forever wars to climate over colonialism to fascism and support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide on over a hundred thousand civilians, - where is China geonociding hundreds a week right now? Yeah nowhere, but the US is doing that every decade. Incredible to see this angle that 'the good guys' are bowing down to bad China in this context when you have so much poverty, political repression and lack of gay rights, abortion etc in many right wing states to straight up hyper right wing terrorism targeting vulnerable populations every year.
- NickC25 1y ago
  >The US is worse than China in many aspects, from forever wars to climate over colonialism to fascism and support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide on over a hundred thousand civilians. My man, the US and China are more or less the exact same here with the exception of forever wars. Climate? China pollutes like crazy, and so does the US. Colonialism? Maybe not in the same vein but China does engage in actions to other nations, such as Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan that could be classified as colonialism. Fascism? Well yeah both countries are pretty much openly fascist right now. Support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide of over a hundred thousand people? Yeah the US and China are both complicit there. In fact, in China, you're speaking about the regime itself, with context to the ongoing genocide of Uyghur people.
  - kossTKR 1y ago
    Yes its imperial logic so why arent you saying that to OP's bizzare US = peace and gay rights comment? And the Uyghur repression is no genocide compared to Palestine thats complete US misinformation and frankly a sinister comparison - the US is much much more violent, again look at Palestine, before that literally 30+ wars for resources and markets with millions of civilians dead. Im not naive about China but this US = beacon of human rights angle is frankly gross to me. China has many problems but americans are literally worse and you wanting to boycut due to human rights, is this a joke?
  - AndrewKemendo 1y ago
nimbius 1y ago
of the 193 members of the UN, only 12 (6%) recognize Taiwan as a country. the Kuomintang lost the war. its effectively the same as if the confederacy retreated to the Florida keys and China maintained a policy of deliberate ambiguity.
- sunnyps 1y ago
  The population of Taiwan is 23 million. The population of Florida Keys is 82000. Not the same.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- 45764986 1y ago
  Why is UN recognition the metric here and not, like, idk the fact that Taiwan is a liberal democracy with the rule of law and freedom of speech and not a hypercapitalist dictatorship that disappears dissidents?
  - keybored 1y ago
    Neither are the real metric here. Taiwan is a US ally, China (mainland) is not, this is a US board. The reasoning goes backwards from that point.[1] You have to be on the level of Israel’s aggression to lose the “liberal democracy” cover that most US allies get (or similar great titles). [1] Enough to start a subthread with a very confident and polemic phrasing anyway. There are plenty who disagree with the OP here. I’m not saying that this place is an echo chamber on this point at all.
signatoremo 1y ago
Nothing pro war about it. Read history books instead of making assumptions. It is referring to the mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau as a whole. It became popular with the rise of China. Try any business newspaper in the 90s. It is less relevant now as Hong Kong and Macau are now part of China. It isn’t unlike Benelux, or Scandinavia, or Iberian, or Balkan, or Gulf countries.
- GaggiX 1y ago
  >It isn’t unlike Benelux, or Scandinavia, or Iberian, or Balkan, or Gulf countries. Greater Israel, Greater Italy, Greater Germanic Reich oh wait I lost the point, I guess any connections to irredentism are purely coincidental.
  - signatoremo 1y ago
    When was the last time Greater Italy being used? Right. From the book “The Concept of “Greater China”: Themes, Variations and Reservation”: The world is suddenly talking about the emergence of “Greater China.” The term has appeared in the headlines of major newspapers and magazines, has been the topic of conferences sponsored by prominent think-tanks, and is now the theme of a special issue of the world's leading journal of Chinese affairs. It thus joins other phrases – “the new world order,” “the end of history,” “the Pacific Century” and the “clash of civilizations” – as part of the trendiest vocabulary used in discussions of contemporary global affairs. https://doi.org/10.1017/S030574100003229X https://doi.org/10.1017/S030574100003229X “Pro war” you say?
    - GaggiX 1y ago
      Yeah I think you may have understood my point. If you don't like Greater Italy, replace it with Greater Netherlands, it's much more relevant today. EDIT: it would be cool if you add "EDIT" when editing a comment or maybe think for moment before posting so that I don't reply to a different comment. Every time I reload the page I see a different comment, it's pretty funny honestly.
      - 1y ago
Synaesthesia 1y ago
Taiwan still claims the rest of mainland China so maybe it's a reference to that.
kwar13 1y ago
Thanks for pointing this out.
mvkel 1y ago
Since 2021, Tim Cook has repeatedly quoted the old IBM CEO's line "world peace through world trade." This was the same line IBM used to protect their huge business with... wait for it... Nazi Germany
mvkel 1y ago
It is unfortunate that iPhones cannot be made anywhere else in the world. No other country has the right tooling, workforce, or skill set, at that volume. China made a strategic decision to go deep there, and the rest of the world decided it was post-industrial
leoh 1y ago
[flagged]
45764986 1y ago
Friend, this criticism has been relevant since 1998. https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-criticised-for-dumping-tibetan-leader/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-criticised-for-dumping-t...
deleted 1y ago
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ufmace 1y ago
"Pro-war" seems like an odd assertion here. They're recognizing the status quo in a reasonably neutral way, which seems anti-war to me. It seems like you're advocating for Western powers to take a position, using either soft or hard power, on a war that already ended many decades ago. Sounds quite a bit like imperialism to me, and pretty far from being anti-war. An anti-war position, at least from the perspective of a Westerner and Western companies, is more like, you guys lost, suck it up and stop asking us to intervene on your behalf.
- hmry 1y ago
  I don't really see how "Greater China" is more neutral than "Mainland China and Taiwan" which is the phrasing they previously used.
- colejhudson 1y ago
  The recognition of any "status quo" is political. Push back, as in this thread, can change which hierarchies are accepted and which aren't. In particular, the use of "Greater China" normalizes corporate acquiescence to Beijing's explicitly revisionist policy preferences. Taiwan is an independent nation. It isn't lost. And all free nations should intervene whenever the right to self-determination of another is threatened. Say hi to the chairman for me.
skinnymuch 1y ago
[flagged]
dang 1y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- perihelions 1y ago
  With respect, this topic is of immense interest and significance to a large number of us on HN. The many engaged and enthusiastic responses attest to that. Is it off-topic to talk about the adversarial role of tech companies in a potential war, one that would be devastating to many of us? About the entanglements of their supply chains? Have I truly, in your judgement, derailed this thread away from curious discussion? Because, this subthread looks to me comparatively thoughtful (if mildly heated), while the more narrowly-construed topic of discussion is a polyester fashion accessory. To paraphrase Anakin Skywalker: "from my point of view, it's the iPhone Pocket that's generic and uncurious".
  - dang 1y ago
    It's obviously off topic and obviously nationalistic flamebait. Those are the high-order bits here. Adding provocations like "lebensraum" makes it even more of an obvious call. > Have I truly, in your judgement, derailed this thread away from curious discussion? For sure. A subthread like this usually has a lot of activation energy because the (off) topic is sensational and divisive, but that's not the same thing as curious conversation. Supplanting less sensational/divisive topics with more sensational/divisive ones is the essence of the "generic tangent", which HN's guidelines ask users to avoid for good reason. If the OP isn't so interesting, the solution is to find other threads that are interesting, not turn this one into a flamewar (or potential flamewar) about something else.

theturtle32 1y ago

Today I heard the word "Irredentist" for the first time as I'm about to turn 42.

hmry 1y ago
Me too. I've always just heard that kind of thing called "imperialist". But "irredentist" seems more precise.

testfrequency 1y ago

Just like how they removed all the gay dating apps in China yesterday (by request of the government of course). So sad to watch a gay CEO just sit comfortably and allow his company quietly destroy his own “community”. Don’t get me started on SA either…

cactusplant7374 1y ago
He did give a tour of Apple HQ to MBS. But maybe they think they can do more good than harm by selling products in Saudi.
ronsor 1y ago
> Just like how they removed all the gay dating apps in China yesterday (by request of the government of course). Those apps have always been illegal in China. Of course, one could say Apple should not operate in China (and this is perhaps true), but they cannot both operate there and break the law.
- voidmain 1y ago
  Apple could choose to give the users of their devices freedom to run whatever operating systems and programs they choose. Then they could truthfully say that there is no way for them to control what people do with their devices once they leave the Apple store. If you put yourself in control of such things because it is profitable, you ought to take responsibility for the consequences.
  - BurningFrog 1y ago
    China could also make that illegal, and probably has. You're never going to outsmart the Chinese government with clever little tricks. They don't play like that.
    - sabatonfan 1y ago
      Can china make linux illegal?
      - raincole 1y ago
        They can make iPhone illegal. Would they? Unlikely, given iPhone creates a lot of jobs there. But if iPhone becomes the de facto devices for Chinese citizens to access illegal content then the chance is none-zero. (And of course they can make Linux illegal too. It's just harder to enforce than making iPhone illegal.)
      - dhosek 1y ago
        What makes you think they wouldn’t if they felt it would be useful? Or more likely, require a particular government-endorsed Linux.
      - bitwize 1y ago
        If Brazil can, China can.
        sabatonfan 1y ago
fennecfoxy 1y ago
This is why, as a gay man, I give people a look when they ask why I still rant about gay rights "even though you guys have marriage and stuff now". It's 2025, almost 2026 and we're still doing this shit. I don't care if you think I'm icky, I think other people are icky sometimes but I don't try to stop them from existing for it. People are entitled to be who they are.
- testfrequency 1y ago
  Most hetero people will never (thankfully) know that pitted feeling of having to check your surroundings and environment every single day when you simply want to hold your partners hand, chat to a coworker, book a hotel reservation, or book a night out to celebrate. Every single macro outcome like this only demoralizes gay people just wanting to wake up and not think about anything other than the stresses and excitement of the day ahead. If anyone reads this and you think it sounds dramatic, it’s not. It’s a reality, and Tim Cook knows that..he should do better.
  - NickC25 1y ago
    >It’s a reality, and Tim Cook knows that..he should do better. You say that, but he's made billions by explicitly not doing better. And he's Wall Street's darling for it.
  - jimbokun 1y ago
    Tim Cook has no ability to change the Chinese government's policies.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Untrue and defeatist. Tim Cook does influence Chinese policy, you can't pretend he's the victim here: EU: Tim Cook will *leave your economic zone* if you fraudulently label him as a monopolist, okay? If your government doesn't change, Apple won't bless your economy. China: There's just nothing we could do. When they asked to backdoor iCloud we couldn't make any demands from them. They constantly demand authoritarian control and *never* let us say a single word. We're being abused, someone help us!
sabatonfan 1y ago
I didn't know that tim cook was gay and here is one message from wikipedia I want to quote > In June 2014, Cook attended San Francisco's gay pride parade along with a delegation of Apple staff.[85] On October 30, Cook publicly came out as gay in an editorial for Bloomberg Business, saying, "I'm proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me."[86] While it had been reported in early 2011 that Cook was gay,[87][88] at the time, Cook tried to keep his personal life private I feel like Tim Cook should be a man of his words and try to actually help the community he is proud to be in but I am sure that investors might not be happy but that just goes on to show that maybe even some CEO's could be puppets of shareholders and can be forced to do things solely for profit where their heart might not lie. I think that another point is that shareholders can also be puppets of CEO's in the case of Elon musk 1 Trillion $ deal shows that imo I feel like we live in the times where morality can be side-lined for profit and be celebrated. The whole idea why even people can be puppets of each other could be because they get profits and power and influence because of it (basically money most of the times) But what power do those CEO's have if they can't stand for what they think is right or educate themselves on these matters. Food for thought. > virtue was not convenient at the time Maybe we live just in such times.
- jimbokun 1y ago
  Tim Cook has no ability to change the Chinese government's policies.
  - underlipton 1y ago
    "No" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The things he could do would be very painful, maybe a Pyrrhic victory. Maybe they're worth it if the alternative is aiding an abetting authoritarian regime. I'm not casting judgment, just presenting the options. Which do actually exist.
    - jimbokun 1y ago
      The things he could do would not change the policies implemented by the Chinese government.
sneak 1y ago
You can’t fight City Hall. The iPhone is a Chinese product. China ultimately controls whether or not the iPhone exists. No place else on earth can manufacture 20,000 iPhones an hour, 24/7/365. Making two hundred million devices of the iPhone’s complexity and quality is not a trivial matter, and takes tens of thousands of skilled (and experienced) workers. Almost all of those people are Chinese, in China, subject to Chinese law. Apple cannot meaningfully fight Chinese law. “sit comfortably” is a big stretch here. I imagine it must upset him as much or perhaps more than it does you and I. We, after all, can speak publicly about how upsetting it is. He cannot.
- xp84 1y ago
  > must upset him as much or perhaps more than it does you and I. We, after all, can speak publicly about how upsetting it is. He cannot. Yes, he will just have to comfort himself by crying into his pillow made of solid gold bars on his California King-size bed made of a solid block of hundred dollar bills. Poor Tim Apple — the real victim here. In seriousness, even if he feels (and is right!) that there was nothing Apple could do better, nothing stops him from resigning, and then publicly stating that he didn’t want to be a part of a company that had to collaborate with a brutal and inhumane government. He just would rather acquire more billions for some reason.
wiseowise 1y ago
> So sad to watch a gay CEO just sit comfortably and allow his company quietly destroy his own “community” His community are elites and money.

blahgeek 1y ago

I think it's a common term used to loosely describe the geographical region. It's used by many other companies like Microsoft [1] and Google [2] [1] https://careers.microsoft.com/v2/global/en/locations/gcr.html https://careers.microsoft.com/v2/global/en/locations/gcr.htm... [2] https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-apac/collections/greater-china/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-apac/collections/gre...

thoroughburro 1y ago
[flagged]
- jama211 1y ago
  Well put.
perihelions 1y ago
It's a large step up from "it's used for job postings in (or closely working with) mainland China", to "it's featured in Apple product announcements targeting a global audience of millions". Has it been used in an Apple product announcement before? My search is imperfect, but I actually can't find an example (on their /newsroom subdomain). As recently as two months ago, with the Airphone announcement, they weren't doing this: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-air-a-powerful-new-iphone-with-a-breakthrough-design/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-ai... ("Introducing iPhone Air, a powerful new iPhone with a breakthrough design") > "The 40W Dynamic Power Adapter with 60W Max will be available in Canada, China mainland, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, the Philippines, and the U.S."
- saaaaaam 1y ago
  Apple seems to have been using "Greater China" for a number of years, going by the newsroom section of their site. 2016 - "Users in Greater China will see these new features by default on iOS and OS X® after updating." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/05/17Apple-Celebrates-Chinese-Music-with-GarageBand-Update/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/05/17Apple-Celebrates-Ch... 2019 - "The New Artist of the Week program provides new talent with a prominent platform across greater China for their work to be discovered." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/HomePod-available-in-china-starting-friday-january-18/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/HomePod-available-in-... 2020 - "First, I want to recognize Apple’s family in Greater China. Though the rate of infections has dramatically declined, we know COVID-19’s effects are still being strongly felt. I want to express my deep gratitude to our team in China for their determination and spirit. As of today, all of our stores in Greater China have reopened." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/apples-covid-19-response/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/03/apples-covid-19-respo... 2024 - "Today, Apple has 57 stores in Greater China, with thousands of team members delivering exceptional service and creating magical experiences for customers." https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/apple-jingan-to-welcome-its-first-customers-thursday-march-21-in-shanghai/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/apple-jingan-to-welco...

groundzeros2015 1y ago

Not engaging in political fights outside your circle of influence is actually good for business and responsible leadership.

reaperducer 1y ago
"Good for business" is not the highest goal a human can achieve. Not even close. Start with "do the right thing" and progress from there.
- groundzeros2015 1y ago
  - What do you desire from professionals you hire? - is performative naming of countries that hurt your relationships “the right thing” - is business where we achieve our highest goals as humans?
  - reaperducer 1y ago
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    - deleted 1y ago
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    - kps 1y ago
      > What flavor are hydrogen protons? Sour. A high concentration of hydrogen protons (low pH) tastes sour.
- 1121redblackgo 1y ago
  I'd rather we drop the pretense or expectations that corporations have anything but one goal. That will help us direct our energy to where it can actually be productive. If the marketplace demands better corporate stewardship, and people vote with their wallet, and companies decides to change then great, but the corporate ship is only ever getting steered in one direction and it's not for noble reasons.
- 1y ago

AndrewKemendo 1y ago

History shows without exception that authoritarianism and commerce are bedfellows. I’m unaware of any for profit business interest over all of known history that hasn’t bent the knee to the desires of an authoritarian government

sneak 1y ago

The CCP has Apple hostage. Their products are (effectively) all made there. China has more control over Apple than the US does, at present. They are, of course, in crash override priority mode trying to change that, but nowhere else on earth can manufacture (on average) 20,000 iPhones per hour, 24/7/365. (TBH it’s probably closer to 50k per hour in the months up to release day.) The iPhone is a Chinese product, made by tens of thousands of Chinese people, on machines in China, subject to Chinese jurisdiction and law. That’s an uncomfortable fact for the US economy. If Apple doesn’t do exactly what China wants them to do, the iPhone does not exist, and Apple as we know it today does not exist.

jajuuka 1y ago
US government has FAR more control over Apple as a company. China only has control of the Chinese operations. The president is personally beefing with companies and buying stakes in them. The tariffs alone could have severely hurt Apple, but Apple bent over backwards to appease the president. The US government can simply request an app be removed and Apple and Google will do it worldwide. China does not have that power over Apple. China can threaten Apple but they have already diversified their manufacturing to other countries so China does not have a strangle hold on the supply line.
- thenthenthen 1y ago
  Apple has to comply by Mainland rules. In addition to the supplychain that is slowly getting diversified, all Mainland customer data is handled by a co-owned (not sure %, or if it is 100% outsourced) datacenter in Guizhou.

wat10000 1y ago

They've been using this term for years. It's nothing new and nothing unique to Apple. Don't forget that the "we are the only legitimate Chinese government and we own it all" attitude is shared by both Chinese governments. The PRC claims Taiwan, but Taiwan claims all of China as well.

1-more 1y ago
Taiwan claimed Mongolia until 2002!

kossTKR 1y ago

Your comment is the actual prowar propaganda though in my europeean eyes. The US is worse than China in many aspects, from forever wars to climate over colonialism to fascism and support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide on over a hundred thousand civilians, - where is China geonociding hundreds a week right now? Yeah nowhere, but the US is doing that every decade. Incredible to see this angle that 'the good guys' are bowing down to bad China in this context when you have so much poverty, political repression and lack of gay rights, abortion etc in many right wing states to straight up hyper right wing terrorism targeting vulnerable populations every year.

NickC25 1y ago
>The US is worse than China in many aspects, from forever wars to climate over colonialism to fascism and support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide on over a hundred thousand civilians. My man, the US and China are more or less the exact same here with the exception of forever wars. Climate? China pollutes like crazy, and so does the US. Colonialism? Maybe not in the same vein but China does engage in actions to other nations, such as Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan that could be classified as colonialism. Fascism? Well yeah both countries are pretty much openly fascist right now. Support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide of over a hundred thousand people? Yeah the US and China are both complicit there. In fact, in China, you're speaking about the regime itself, with context to the ongoing genocide of Uyghur people.
- kossTKR 1y ago
  Yes its imperial logic so why arent you saying that to OP's bizzare US = peace and gay rights comment? And the Uyghur repression is no genocide compared to Palestine thats complete US misinformation and frankly a sinister comparison - the US is much much more violent, again look at Palestine, before that literally 30+ wars for resources and markets with millions of civilians dead. Im not naive about China but this US = beacon of human rights angle is frankly gross to me. China has many problems but americans are literally worse and you wanting to boycut due to human rights, is this a joke?
- AndrewKemendo 1y ago

nimbius 1y ago

of the 193 members of the UN, only 12 (6%) recognize Taiwan as a country. the Kuomintang lost the war. its effectively the same as if the confederacy retreated to the Florida keys and China maintained a policy of deliberate ambiguity.

sunnyps 1y ago
The population of Taiwan is 23 million. The population of Florida Keys is 82000. Not the same.
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45764986 1y ago
Why is UN recognition the metric here and not, like, idk the fact that Taiwan is a liberal democracy with the rule of law and freedom of speech and not a hypercapitalist dictatorship that disappears dissidents?
- keybored 1y ago
  Neither are the real metric here. Taiwan is a US ally, China (mainland) is not, this is a US board. The reasoning goes backwards from that point.[1] You have to be on the level of Israel’s aggression to lose the “liberal democracy” cover that most US allies get (or similar great titles). [1] Enough to start a subthread with a very confident and polemic phrasing anyway. There are plenty who disagree with the OP here. I’m not saying that this place is an echo chamber on this point at all.

signatoremo 1y ago

Nothing pro war about it. Read history books instead of making assumptions. It is referring to the mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau as a whole. It became popular with the rise of China. Try any business newspaper in the 90s. It is less relevant now as Hong Kong and Macau are now part of China. It isn’t unlike Benelux, or Scandinavia, or Iberian, or Balkan, or Gulf countries.

GaggiX 1y ago
>It isn’t unlike Benelux, or Scandinavia, or Iberian, or Balkan, or Gulf countries. Greater Israel, Greater Italy, Greater Germanic Reich oh wait I lost the point, I guess any connections to irredentism are purely coincidental.
- signatoremo 1y ago
  When was the last time Greater Italy being used? Right. From the book “The Concept of “Greater China”: Themes, Variations and Reservation”: The world is suddenly talking about the emergence of “Greater China.” The term has appeared in the headlines of major newspapers and magazines, has been the topic of conferences sponsored by prominent think-tanks, and is now the theme of a special issue of the world's leading journal of Chinese affairs. It thus joins other phrases – “the new world order,” “the end of history,” “the Pacific Century” and the “clash of civilizations” – as part of the trendiest vocabulary used in discussions of contemporary global affairs. https://doi.org/10.1017/S030574100003229X https://doi.org/10.1017/S030574100003229X “Pro war” you say?
  - GaggiX 1y ago
    Yeah I think you may have understood my point. If you don't like Greater Italy, replace it with Greater Netherlands, it's much more relevant today. EDIT: it would be cool if you add "EDIT" when editing a comment or maybe think for moment before posting so that I don't reply to a different comment. Every time I reload the page I see a different comment, it's pretty funny honestly.
    - 1y ago

Synaesthesia 1y ago

Taiwan still claims the rest of mainland China so maybe it's a reference to that.

kwar13 1y ago

Thanks for pointing this out.

mvkel 1y ago

Since 2021, Tim Cook has repeatedly quoted the old IBM CEO's line "world peace through world trade." This was the same line IBM used to protect their huge business with... wait for it... Nazi Germany

mvkel 1y ago

It is unfortunate that iPhones cannot be made anywhere else in the world. No other country has the right tooling, workforce, or skill set, at that volume. China made a strategic decision to go deep there, and the rest of the world decided it was post-industrial

leoh 1y ago

[flagged]

45764986 1y ago

Friend, this criticism has been relevant since 1998. https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-criticised-for-dumping-tibetan-leader/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-criticised-for-dumping-t...

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ufmace 1y ago

"Pro-war" seems like an odd assertion here. They're recognizing the status quo in a reasonably neutral way, which seems anti-war to me. It seems like you're advocating for Western powers to take a position, using either soft or hard power, on a war that already ended many decades ago. Sounds quite a bit like imperialism to me, and pretty far from being anti-war. An anti-war position, at least from the perspective of a Westerner and Western companies, is more like, you guys lost, suck it up and stop asking us to intervene on your behalf.

hmry 1y ago
I don't really see how "Greater China" is more neutral than "Mainland China and Taiwan" which is the phrasing they previously used.
colejhudson 1y ago
The recognition of any "status quo" is political. Push back, as in this thread, can change which hierarchies are accepted and which aren't. In particular, the use of "Greater China" normalizes corporate acquiescence to Beijing's explicitly revisionist policy preferences. Taiwan is an independent nation. It isn't lost. And all free nations should intervene whenever the right to self-determination of another is threatened. Say hi to the chairman for me.

skinnymuch 1y ago

[flagged]

dang 1y ago

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

perihelions 1y ago
With respect, this topic is of immense interest and significance to a large number of us on HN. The many engaged and enthusiastic responses attest to that. Is it off-topic to talk about the adversarial role of tech companies in a potential war, one that would be devastating to many of us? About the entanglements of their supply chains? Have I truly, in your judgement, derailed this thread away from curious discussion? Because, this subthread looks to me comparatively thoughtful (if mildly heated), while the more narrowly-construed topic of discussion is a polyester fashion accessory. To paraphrase Anakin Skywalker: "from my point of view, it's the iPhone Pocket that's generic and uncurious".
- dang 1y ago
  It's obviously off topic and obviously nationalistic flamebait. Those are the high-order bits here. Adding provocations like "lebensraum" makes it even more of an obvious call. > Have I truly, in your judgement, derailed this thread away from curious discussion? For sure. A subthread like this usually has a lot of activation energy because the (off) topic is sensational and divisive, but that's not the same thing as curious conversation. Supplanting less sensational/divisive topics with more sensational/divisive ones is the essence of the "generic tangent", which HN's guidelines ask users to avoid for good reason. If the OP isn't so interesting, the solution is to find other threads that are interesting, not turn this one into a flamewar (or potential flamewar) about something else.