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ICE Will Use AI to Surveil Social Media

327 points by throwaway81523 1y ago

FridayoLeary 1y ago
So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. Mass surveillance and enforcement technology is dismal to think about, though NSA and google have been doing it for years. I'm watching from my perspective in the UK where there is growing fury over the gross incompetence, negligence and mishandling of a mass immigration crisis which is so stupid it beggars belief. The various law enforcement agencies in the us don't cooperate that closely, so there's less scope for this to be abused against american citizens unlike in the UK.
- bakies 1y ago
  Is mass immigration really a crisis? Like people are upset here in the US too but I don't even know why. There's a lot of immigrants in my state but they're not upsetting me.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
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  - Refreeze5224 1y ago
    Absolutely not. They are an essential part of modern American life, and anyone against it either doesn't understand that, or does it for racist reasons.
    - travisgriggs 1y ago
      I observe the following. ICE has not caused a huge step change in people leaving the country. If you look at the stats since Reagan (https://infographicsite.com/infographic/deportations-under-us-presidents-statistics/ https://infographicsite.com/infographic/deportations-under-u...), it wanders up and down and is (imo) complicated. What has changed is the “messaging” around the topic. This is very common with the Trump administration. When all is said and done, when exceptions are made/bought, and the courts and others get involved, it ends up not being much of a needle move. BUT, what is different every time is the messaging. And I have come to believe, that is what the actual goal is to some degree. The real goal is to send a message to people who are immigrants OR (and this is important) look like immigrants. It’s a message of “remember your place” and “be grateful you get to be here”. It’s the same type of tactics that gets sent to Asian communities, black communities, women, etc. I am white. I am a male. I am 55. I oscillate between despondently sad and disgusted.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    > Is mass immigration really a crisis? Not even a little bit. No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, either at all, or at the wages offered), rampant "migrant crime" is a myth created and perpetuated by the right (immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens), and to top it off, the American economy depends on many of these migrant workers in order to function (often in exploitative ways; explicitly allowing and supporting this type of migration would make things safer for everyone). It's othering and racism, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should just open the floodgates and let anyone and everyone in, and I'm not saying we shouldn't deport non-citizens who commit violent crime, but the "crisis" is entirely manufactured.
    - jonway 1y ago
      >the "crisis" is entirely manufactured. It sure is, the US government has been underfunding the judicial body responsible for adjudicating asylum claims for years and years. As a result there are indeed people here in status limbo. Wether or not they should be granted some kind of residency is kind of irrelevant, politicians are happy for this to be a problem they can use. Even now, they aren’t increasing the rate of process, they’re just blowing the cash on mass surveillance.
      - 20after4 1y ago
        And mass incarceration.
    - mixmastamyk 1y ago
      Employed privilege. Lots of folks would like to work in construction but haven’t been able to for a while. I know several that retired early in poverty. I would appreciate a job in construction or at a restaurant for example. Teenagers would benefit from such jobs as well. Not available. Your absolute assertions are myopic at best.
      - dashundchen 1y ago
        Who or what is stopping you from getting a job at a restaurant? Doesn't seem to be a problem with any motivated person I know.
  - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
    Roughly half the population responds to unfamiliar people and ideas with curiosity, and the other half with fear. The latter half are easily manipulated into nurturing the fear. Everything rolls up to this.
    - UberFly 1y ago
      What's your definition of "unfamiliar"? I just want people vetted before they're allowed into my house to live along-side my family? Is that unreasonable?
  - reactordev 1y ago
    The older you are, the more likely you’ll see more people and say “get off my lawn” when really, you were busy hanging plates when the rest of the world was having babies… That’s really what happened. The population doubled in 15 years and people moved (people always move). It’s just more people now. So naturally you’ll see more immigrants.
  - throwawa14223 1y ago
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  - outside1234 1y ago
    Not only is it not a crisis but many nations NEED immigration because their natality rates are so low. Including the UK.
    - modo_mario 1y ago
      Why would they need them because of that? Must every nations population perpetually go up? Do you know how insane that sounds? Every argument that starts like this ends up defending a pyramid scheme.
      - bakies 1y ago
        I think it's a capitalism thing to need more people
      - outside1234 1y ago
        Pension plans depend on populations being stable and not living longer and longer. Most of Europe have a rate below 2.0 (replacement rate) and people are living longer and longer. So either you increase the retirement age significantly or you have to expand the base.
        modo_mario 1y ago
        In which case you have to do that indefinitely and it's a pyramid scheme. Also most non eu migration doesn't end up being a net positive for those govs within the first generation (or even second depending). Far from actually and these migrants are not immune to aging then they end up requiring pensions too. And all of this to serve dying generations when those younger than me starting out get ever increasingly shafted. Here in Belgium pension plans existed that did not work like that. Then the socialist raided these funds and the future generations were going to pay for those pensions. My family's criticism was that they could only do that once and they were right. I don't tie this issue to socialists tho. 2 decades ago the liberals(european, right wing) did the same to the railways who had a separate pension fund and more recently yet another party suggested doing the same for a 3rd pillar of selfemployed people.
  - hereme888 1y ago
    It was. Not since Trump took office. It's still a crisis in Europe though.
    - bakies 1y ago
      I'm more asking why immigration is a "crisis"?
      - hereme888 1y ago
        Uncontrolled influx of millions - mostly with poor finances and very different cultural backgrounds and values - strain a nation's resources, infrastructure, and social cohesion. It exacerbates housing shortages, burdens public services like healthcare, and contributes to economic friction amid existing downturns. It also poses risks to national identity and security, as we are now experiences in many countries who allowed this to happen, as opposed to countries that enforced legal immigration. It complicates integration and social stability. It's unfair to legal immigrants. This is why sovereign states implement rigorous and dynamic immigration controls and capacity limits based on the nation's ability at the time. There has to be sustainable absorption. Countries are not homeless shelters or free handouts; they are the result of blood and tears of the patriots who fought and died to create, defend, and build that nation. Every nation has its values, and it's not the right choice for everyone. China is definitely not a country for me, nor are the CCP's values acceptable to American culture. In short, vet whoever comes into your house, and don't let people sneak in through the backdoor.
        bakies 1y ago
        > different cultural backgrounds and values; social cohesion; national identity; integration and social stability; nation has its values; not the right choice for everyone; American culture I like my cultured friends. USA is a melting pot, not a white-man-country. This is all xenophobia. > poor finances sounds right for asylum seekers > nation's resources, infrastructure, housing shortages, burdens public services like healthcare, and contributes to economic friction[??] amid existing downturns, sounds like policy problems; and these are the priorities of the people i vote for too, none of this has to do with immigrants. > Countries are not homeless shelters or free handouts no, this is exactly what i expect my country (government) to handle > Uncontrolled influx of millions this is pretty tightly controlled, you can find the data from the census and see that the population is not at all fluctuating and very linear. Should be trivial to plan ahead about how many people are in the country. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/population https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni... > This is why sovereign states implement rigorous and dynamic immigration controls and capacity limits based on the nation's ability at the time. There has to be sustainable absorption. vet whoever comes into your house this is true, and I dont believe its not happening. i was asking what is happening that's a crisis. Trump's policies are _mass deportation_. They are extreme. Legal immigrants, are having visas revoked without reason, and even green card holders are being arrested without cause. Violations of the 4th amendment. Immigrants are arrested at court houses, where the vetting takes place, you know, by _judges_. > they are the result of blood and tears of the patriots who fought and died to create, defend, and build that nation. like my immigrant grandpop, achieved the american dream
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
    >There's a lot of immigrants in my state but they're not upsetting me. You might not think that, but have you ever complained about housing prices? That food at the grocery store costs more than it did a few years ago? The price of consumer goods in general? Well, you're not buying those things. You're bidding on them. And the more people there are, here, the higher those prices will be bid upwards.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      > That food at the grocery store costs more than it did a few years ago? > the more people there are, here, the higher those prices will be bid upwards Who do you think is picking most of that food? And if the wages for those jobs went up to an American living wage, what do you think would happen to the price of food even with a bit lower demand? I know it's all too easy and comforting to throw out knee-jerk comments cheerleading for government power, but at least try applying some basic analysis to what you write.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
        >Who do you think is picking most of that food? Your mistake is in believing that even if I answered this question with the answer you consider correct, that this would change my position. >And if the wages for those jobs went up to an American living wage, what do you think would happen to the price of food even with a bit lower demand? "I like to exploit immigrants and underpay them, because my out-of-season fruit will be too high for my smoothy frappucinos!" Silly things leftists say, haha. >I know it's all too easy and comforting to throw out knee-jerk comments cheerleading for government power, I'm not especially a big fan of government power. But I live in a country being held hostage by lunatic ideologues who think non-citizens should have the absolute right to live here, but only because they hope to stack the vote against their political opponents. So there's not really that many options left. Things will have to get far worse before they can get any better.
        mindslight 1y ago
        > that this would change my position I'm not asking you to change your position, but rather to be honest about the effects of it. > "I like to exploit immigrants and underpay them, because my out-of-season fruit will be too high for my smoothy frappucinos!" I did not say anything of the sort, rather I acknowledged the current reality. One can also say "I want farm workers to be system legible, primarily Americans, and paid a living wage, even though it will make grocery prices go up". That's a consistent position. We can have honest discussions about those things. I don't think anybody actually likes the status quo. > Silly things leftists say, haha I know fascists have defined everything short of gushing praise for Dear Leader as the rAdIcAl lEfT, but I'm actually a libertarian. > I live in a country being held hostage by lunatic ideologues who think non-citizens should have the absolute right to live here Please explain how it's being "held hostage" when the party in power is enacting the exact opposite. > So there's not really that many options left. Things will have to get far worse before they can get any better. Sorry no, there are plenty of other options to institute the immigration policy you want here - which wouldn't require adding to the surveillance pantopticon, further empowering a domestic military, or trampling the Constitution and our natural rights. So what we've actually got is a second issue of how those things are being carried out, supposedly in the name of doing something about immigration. But given how wholly anti-liberty and anti-American those actions are, and how there are already policy floaters on relaxing the hardline stance for "critical" industries reliant on cheap illegal labor, it begs the question of whether the immigration topic is even the main thrust here - or whether it's simply a pretext for autocratic authoritarian power for power's sake. > I'm not especially a big fan of government power Sorry, but yes you are. You're shunning the entire idea of limited constitutional government and inalienable constitutional/natural rights, seemingly because you like these particular results of crass authoritarianism. That's statism 101.
- mjbale116 1y ago
  > have left the US They did not "leave" the US, they were deported without due process. > though NSA and google have been doing it for years That does not make it less dismal > less scope for this to be abused against american citizens unlike in the UK There are agencies in the US that do as they please without needing to cooperate with anyone. Not sure how you arrived in that conclusion.
- danparsonson 1y ago
  A perceived mass immigration crisis, which has little to do with reality and much more to do with gas bags stoking fear and spreading nonsense. Here's reality: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-december-2024/summary-of-latest-statistics https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-...
  - fart-fart-FART 1y ago
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    - shpxbssanmvfphz 1y ago
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      - throw3467 1y ago
        >there's nothing you can do about it That is false.
      - fart-fart-FART 1y ago
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        shpxbssanmvfphz 1y ago
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        shadowgovt 1y ago
        Probably the case-study of how it caused America to collapse into a civil war in the next year or so, since the only way the Executive can continue its policy is by overtly ignoring rule of law and Americans appear to be growing weary of that from their Executive. That'll likely ice the ambitions of the ultra-nationalists in other countries historically close to America for a generation, much like Germany trying its eugenics experiment iced the previously-quite-vocal eugenicists in the US for about a generation.
- neither_color 1y ago
  Different populists have different ideal numbers for how many people they want to purge. Some want 10 million, some want 20-50 million going decades back and reversing whatever laws allowed the "wrong kind" of even legal immigrants to come here in the first place. I think more governments around the world are catching on to the idea that your majority population can excuse a large amount of economic mismanagement and bad geopolitical strategy if you blame foreigners who arrived after your decline started. If a satisfactory amount of foreigners are removed, the technology will still be there and the defense contractors will still need contracts. If there are no viable foreign adversaries at that point, then another domestic target will be needed.
- epistasis 1y ago
  > So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. Why would anyone believe this? It's such a strange thing to say, and one would have to be an absolute fool to believe it.
  - jdiff 1y ago
    The people I work with believe the government, the current administration is funding immigrants. Providing them with handlers who are paid to assist them, open up credit cards in their own names on behalf of non-citizens who otherwise couldn't. Multiple of them believe this. One mentioned it, after she left I turned to my other coworker to say "that was some crazy stuff she was saying" only to be met with, "Hey, it's happening. A lot of federal money goes missing and this is exactly where it's going." It's a complete disconnect from reality that's malleable to any form desired.
    - FireBeyond 1y ago
      When ICE raided Tyson Chicken (a few years ago), multiple workers provided documentation from Tyson telling them how to stay under the radar and how to fill out paperwork if they were undocumented. There's definitely a very large effort in undocumented labor... and little interest in rocking the boat of those employers.
      - jdiff 1y ago
        Yes. The USA runs on undocumented work in many ways. This is a far, far, far (etc) cry from government-funded citizens escorting around and signing up for lines of credit and otherwise paying the way for undocumented workers.
- dyauspitr 1y ago
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  - dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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    - jdiff 1y ago
      Only among consumers of conservative media, and they're not a majority of the US population.
      - dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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        jdiff 1y ago
        Ad hominem does not strengthen your argument. It's more affluent than most other states. Most red states take more federal money than they give back. Maybe you should actually look at numbers rather than relying on memes and narratives.
        dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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  - 50208 1y ago
    The United States is a nation of immigrants ... hopefully someday soon we'll remember that it is acutally our biggest strength, not a weakness.
    - UberFly 1y ago
      A nation of legal or illegal immigrants? Should any us have a say in which we prefer?
- wsatb 1y ago
  > So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. The Trump administration loves gaudy numbers like this. Common sense tells you that's a lot of movement in too short of time. Until they release evidence of these numbers, please do not spread this misinformation.
  - epistasis 1y ago
    Indeed, it's a complete lie and fabrication, and those who repeat it are bearing false witness. Take the report it came from, click on any "supporting" link, such as: > A recent study from the United Nations reported that President Trump’s immigration policies led to a 97% reduction in illegal aliens heading northbound to the U.S. from Central America. And you find that the document they link does not support their assertion, and in face the "97%" refers to: > The migrants who returned during the period were primarily Venezuelan nationals, accounting for 97% of the documented southward flow, with most heading to neighboring Colombia. It's comically bad deception, only people who continuously traffic in lies all day long would even publish something like this.
  - sky2224 1y ago
    Is it really that much movement though? Like, say we assume it's true: There are 340 million people in the US. That's less than 1% of the current population leaving. I really doubt anybody would notice much of a difference.
    - sigwinch 1y ago
      Averaging 40,000 per state, that’s 50 large universities worth of opened-up housing.
      - sky2224 1y ago
        Fair point. Guess my poor number sense is really showing haha.
        sigwinch 1y ago
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  > So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. According to the current administration, who have a ... not exactly sterling ... reputation for accuracy and honesty in reporting.
Mistletoe 1y ago
Now we begin to see the true reason for all the AI push. >You had to live – did live, from habit that became instinct – in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every moment scrutinized. – George Orwell, 1984
- protocolture 1y ago
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  - asdfjeh 1y ago
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    - protocolture 1y ago
      Reality isnt ever "Heres one datapoint, trend confirmed".
- mouse_ 1y ago
  they can see with our wifi now so that darkness part is accounted for :(
  - derwiki 1y ago
    Let the Ethernet Revolution begin!
- codedokode 1y ago
  Let me play a devil's advocate. Are you (and Orwell) unhappy that people breaking the law get punished? Even if you merely cross the road in the wrong place, you deserve a punishment to the maximum extent specified by the law, don't you? It doesn't matter if you break the law in the darkness or not.
abuani 1y ago
There will be a court case where some bit of evidence is going to be similar to: Ice Agents: "Is <name> here illegally?" AI prompt: "you're absolutely right!"
- viraptor 1y ago
  Not sure why they'd bother, since we're in the "random kidnappings are the MO" territory already, regardless of the citizenship status.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    This. It’s more about using AI to do facial recognition or similar things to detect individuals en masse and flag them for the gulag.
- jpk 1y ago
  If only. If ICE arrests and deports someone without due process, there is no court case.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
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    - Light_Hope 1y ago
      While you are correct in stating that an article III court generally is not required, the due process for immigrants, even those not present legally, is more complicated than just "check paperwork for legal status, act immediately". While in some cases expedited removal bypass the normal process, if a deportation is contested, due process still generally entails access to a hearing before an immigration judge (article II judge).
    - terribleperson 1y ago
      What do you think the process to check whether someone is an illegal immigrant is? It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove that they're a citizen or here legally. Maybe a court case?
Sanctuary8542 1y ago
Shhhhh...they're listening
cyberax 1y ago
> $5.7 million contract for AI-driven social media surveillance Yeah, that would just about cover the cost of a pizza party in the AI world. You also can look at "Zignal Labs". The website looks like 100% snakeoil. I have no doubt that ICE would love to have some AI-based software to detect illegal immigrants, but I doubt it's more effective than just regular datamining.
- jdiff 1y ago
  It doesn't need to be effective, it needs to be a computerized excuse to go after more people. Whenever computers are used to target people, the output is always given far too much weight. Recently we had guns drawn on a child because a computer vision algorithm classified his doritos as a gun with a low confidence score, with explicit advice to only investigate further and not assume correctness. But that child still had multiple guns trained on them. Take that, apply it to here, and it's clear that effectiveness would actually be counterproductive.
kgasser88 1y ago
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- jkestner 1y ago
  So?
- nearlyepic 1y ago
  "kgasser88", huh?
kgasser88 1y ago
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stuckindoors 1y ago
Enforcement on businesses hiring non legal workers - gets the root cause. Without fixing that we are just playing wack a mole - people will still venture to the US since jobs exist and ICE is better than what ever crap they are coming from. Sure you may dissuade a few on the margins. We are not fixing the root cause here even if you believe that immigration is bad for the country. It’s just a farce.
- Nextgrid 1y ago
  Companies that employ undocumented workers at scale have significant political power and deporting them en-masse would shock many industries, so this won’t happen. The recent ICE shenanigans (which don’t get me wrong - are awful and badly executed) are just performative bullshit to please the voter base. In fact I’d argue they are intentionally executed badly to attract media attention so they can all say they are being tough on immigrants.
  - mattmaroon 1y ago
    I think it’s more to scare immigrants with pleasing the base being icing on the cake. Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant. And anecdotally, it is working. Ask any flight attendant on an international route. They want people to stop coming here, and the threat of being sent to some torture camp in the third world won’t deter a Haitian (whose daily life already meets that description) but it will deter people from less atrocious locations.
    - istajeer242 1y ago
      > Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant. I don't know much about him but aren't his grand parents Belarusians who came over to the US?
      - pengaru 1y ago
        As an american, unless you're descendant from native americans, your ancestors are immigrants... I don't think it's worth pointing out. Most anti-immigration americans obviously aren't native americans. pulling up the ladder behind you isn't a new concept
siliconc0w 1y ago
Really impressive how quickly Republicans have co-signed the vaporization of civil and state rights that were once a tenant of their party's identity.
- kayodelycaon 1y ago
  It was never about state rights. It’s always been about power and control. Trump is the true face of the Republican party that’s finally come out. He’s not implementing the policies they want, but they wanted someone like him. The ultimate goal of Christian nationalists (a large part of the Republican Party) is to turn the United States into a single-party theocracy and implement their version of Sharira law. They probably don’t fully realize this is what they’re doing.
  - cbdevidal 1y ago
    Both parties are globalist TBH. I used to vote Repub but got out 15 years ago, disillusioned by the unapologetic hypocrisy. Would love to see a God-fearing minarchist or libertarian succeed but I know that’s not realistic.
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Wait. Aren't the libertarians pretty much for global free trade and unlimited immigration? I'm sensing some cognitive dissonance here.
      - cbdevidal 1y ago
        I believe we have different definitions of “globalist.” The dictionary says: glob·al·ist /ˈɡlōbəlist/ noun 1.) a person who advocates the administering or planning of a political strategy, economic system, etc. on a global rather than a national basis. “[Right-libertarian populists] are unapologetically anti-globalist while at the same championing free trade and a realist foreign policy.”[1] Both parties have furthered the advancement of global rule, one world government, top-down planning. In different ways, to be sure. Repubs for example voted in JD Vance, a man who was led by Peter Thiel, who as you know is advancing the surveillance state with Palantir. Peter made him who he is, and certainly has his ear. And Dems marched in lock-step with other globalists around the world in 2021-2024. Global free trade, where individuals and not politicians decide who to trade with, as I understand it, is the _opposite_ of the dictionary’s definition of globalism. It is the smaller government that Republicans ostensibly stand for and then don’t provide. Get government out of the way and let people be people. [1] https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/right-libertarian-populism/ https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/right-libertarian...
anigbrowl 1y ago
Somewhat relevant: ICE detains British journalist after criticism of Israel on US tour https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/26/ice-detains-british-muslim-journalist-laura-loomer https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/26/ice-detains-...
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
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- ilikehurdles 1y ago
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  - buyucu 1y ago
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  - 317070 1y ago
    Do you have some primary sources for the statement that he is a jihadi? Do you have any primary source for the statement that he cheered ethnic cleansing? I've been looking, but all I find is that: > Mr Hamdi has previously denied accusations that he celebrated October 7, instead claiming he was "illustrating the international recognition that efforts to normalise relations in the Middle East must include Palestinian people." > He told the National Post: "The October 7 events underscore the failure of any approach that seeks normalisation at the expense of the Palestinian people." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-citizen-who-encouraged-others-to-celebrate-october-7-detained-in-us-for-supporting-terrorism/ar-AA1Pffv3 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-citizen-who-encourag...
  - HaZeust 1y ago
    I actually can't find any public statements of him saying this. It's referenced in "Times of Israel" [1] that, "According to MEMRI, in December 2023, Hamdi called to “celebrate the victory” of October 7 and asked his audience “how many of you felt euphoria” when they heard of the Hamas onslaught in which terrorists killed some 1,200 people and took 251 hostages." However, their hyperlink in the word "called" points to a MEMRI report that requires a request to view [2]. Do you happen to have any easily-accessible, non-walled content or reporting of Hamdi saying those things? [1] - https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-detains-british-commentator-during-speaking-tour-apparently-over-anti-israel-comments/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-detains-british-commentator... [2] - https://www.memri.org/reports/british-political-commentator-sami-hamdi-speaking-london-mosque-dont-pity-palestinians-%E2%80%93 https://www.memri.org/reports/british-political-commentator-...
hereme888 1y ago
Don't all agencies pretty much do social media surveillance in some way? Why is it surprising if another law enforcement agency like ICE uses it?
- Ylpertnodi 1y ago
  >Why is it surprising if another law enforcement agency like ICE uses it? I think the nuance is how they'll use the information: less random pick-ups (and associated crowds), versus more targetted swoops.
- CamelCaseName 1y ago
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- lazzlazzlazz 1y ago
  It is not surprising nor particularly novel. But consider the people upvoting this are supporting a sensationalistic and dishonest Jacobin article right now. Of course it doesn't make sense.
- sixothree 1y ago
  Agencies with checks and balances maybe. But this is extra-legal in so many ways.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  ICE is not law enforcement. They are thugs that see themselves as above the law.
  - hereme888 1y ago
    "United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a federal law enforcement agency under the supervision of the United States Department of Homeland Security." Since 2002.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      Sure, that's what they call themselves. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy :)
kgasser88 1y ago
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phs318u 1y ago
.. . in the la-and of the freeee, and the ho-ome of the brave!
Ethan312 1y ago
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temptemptemp111 1y ago
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Peacefulz 1y ago
If we organized a content storm campaign we could make this effort moot. Time to start building a portfolio of dummy accounts to muddy the water. Remember... TAILS and fresh IP's for each account, ideally nodes you can get back on with ease. Use a public network if possible. Bonus: You can also use these accounts to undermine the Online Safety Act at the same time!
- wturner 1y ago
  This is the same tool the right has used to destroy progressive democracy online. Dump tons of money into pro libertarian right wing bots and overwhelm the voices that call for money out of politics and universal heath care with screams of "libtard" and "woke".
october8140 1y ago
How quickly will people make fake AI accounts for real people?
tomhow 1y ago
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lgleason 1y ago
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- whatshisface 1y ago
  Rights aren't a citizens-or-guests thing, they're a human thing. Would (for example) homicide become right or wrong depending on an entry in a database somewhere? It's absurd to suggest that it's legal to pickpocket tourists.
  - ilikehurdles 1y ago
    That’s wrong. Not all rights are natural rights (or human rights). Citizens have a right to vote. Guests typically do not. Citizens in some countries have an exclusive right to own land in those countries. Should a visitor to a country enjoy the right to explicitly espouse opposition to that country without any negative consequence? I would say no, and I would say the constitutional court of the US will have no problem agreeing with me. Affiliation with a communist or totalitarian party has been legally held up as a disqualification from becoming a US citizen; this is despite US citizens having the right to associate with such parties. Ergo, citizens and guests do not hold the same rights.
    - chebureki 1y ago
      I would think the Bill of Rights applies equally to citizens or non-citizens. That includes the First Amendment. That includes the right to freedom of speech and expression of opposition to whatever he or she desires. The freedom of speech is part of the 'truths' that are self-evident. And almost every time, the Congress tried to restrict these rights, they were struck by the courts. This isn't about demolishing the state, as communists would want to do. This isn't about changing the constitutional order, as any totalitarian party would have to do. This is about a right of a person to express his or her opinion without repercussions. "This case -- perhaps the most important ever to fall within the jurisdiction of this district court -- squarely presents the issue whether non-citizens lawfully present here in United States actually have the same free speech rights as the rest of us. The Court answers this Constitutional question unequivocally ‘yes, they do.’ ‘No law’ means ‘no law.’ The First Amendment does not draw President Trump’s invidious distinction and it is not to be found in our history or jurisprudence. … No one’s freedom of speech is unlimited, of course, but these limits are the same for both citizens and non-citizens alike.” https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282460/gov.uscourts.mad.282460.261.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282...
egorfine 1y ago
So you say that I can burn a bit of ICE's GPUs by typing words suggesting I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers Right?
- jimmydoe 1y ago
  It’s the tax you paid, it’s just being allocated more towards GPUs. You pay tax direct as us residents, or as tariff if you are in rest of world.
  - citruspi 1y ago
    > You pay tax direct as us residents, or as tariff if you are in rest of world. Tariffs on goods coming into the US are paid by US residents. (Just had to pay customs to clear a shipment from the UK - I had to pay the tariffs, not the seller.)
- js2 1y ago
  https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/lisp/play/spook.el https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/lisp/play/... https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/spook/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/spook/
  - egorfine 1y ago
    Oh, ECHELON. Haven't heard this term for a while.
rapjr9 1y ago
Can't anyone use AI to surveil social media, even ordinary citizens? It seems like it would be easy to surveil ICE, the police, immigrants, all politicians, the military, businesses, government, individuals, groups, anyone and anything anyone has an interest in. Is the future everyone surveilling everyone else? There used to be web services that let you set up "standing queries" for anything you were interested in. In a sense chatbots already contain a historical record of the internet in compressed format and allow anyone to do historical queries on anything, limited only to what has been accessible on the internet. "Googling someone" is becoming "ChatGPTing someone". People felt Googling someone was somewhat rude and parents warned their children to limit what they posted in case future employers looked them up. Same for anyone employed, they are learning to be careful what they post in case their employers see it. Seems like free speech is being suppressed because it can be used against you by various people and groups already. This may help explain why the web has become less interesting and anonymous posting is ubiquitous.
- computerthings 1y ago
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_factor 1y ago
Many people don’t understand that government power MUST be limited in a democracy if you wish to slow the spread of tyranny. Assume you live in a country 50/50 red and blue people. Red wins the election and the new leader cracks down on the blues hard for how they look. Replace this with any arbitrary law that benefits one group at the expense of another for no purpose. Assuming one of the arbitrary rules is not to destroy the elections (yet), and blue manages to gain back control, the same arbitrary power now falls into blue hands. You will rarely see power being returned (the root cause of rot), and now blue is free to make arbitrary rules and persecute any color they wish. In effect, red voted against their interests long-term, for short-term advantage. At the moment we have masked and license plate tampering hit squads (with no accountability, they can claim even a daylight bank robbery wasn’t ICE.. try to prove or fight it). Imagine the next president is a man like Putin, with not just the intelligence, but the will to seize permanent control. We’re handing keys to our jailers over overblown online rhetoric and fear. Now we’re targeting specific groups, profiling based on if they look “illegal”. Where have we seen this happen before and leading to a second war? STOP giving the government power people. It doesn’t end well. Of the people and for the people only works when don’t give deity-like power to our stewards.
- jajuuka 1y ago
  As much as a like to fantasize how a Cincinnatus-esque figure could emerge to fix things, the unfortunate truth is that many times the system needs to be rebuilt to secure balance again. It needs to be equal measure of the government protecting the civilian population as well the citizens protecting themselves from the government to be a successful democracy.
  - JuniperMesos 1y ago
    And if the particular governmental system that is the US federal government was in fact destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up, why would the set of people who are currently legal citizens, legal permanent residents, and legal immigrants remain the same as is today under the laws established by that system? If the US Constitution is moot because there's been a successful military uprising against the US federal government, and people are sitting down to write a new constitution that will actually establish the rules of governance for (some subset of?) the land area of the current United States of America, why would that new constitution have the same rules governing illegal immigration enforcement as the current one? Before citizens can protect themselves from the government to be a successful democracy, they have to decide who is in fact a citizen who can legitimately vote in that democracy.
RickJWagner 1y ago
I’m a little surprised at the level of interest in ICE these days. They’ve been around for a while now, and have been used by past presidents in similar ways. Barack Obama was called out by the ACLU for his use of ICE. He was called a monster. If people condemn Trump and Obama both, then I respect their thinking. But if they applaud Obama and condemn Trump, I don’t believe they are showing integrity.
- hypeatei 1y ago
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reaperducer 1y ago
Go nuts, ICE. I haven't been on social media in over a decade. Feel free to get your undies in a bundle over my "I'm on a MF-in' boat" FourSquare check-in. Rule #1 of staying off the radar: Don't deliberately put yourself on the radar.
Hizonner 1y ago
There should be a bounty pool for the person who can get ICE to do the most stupid, embarrassing thing based on "social media" chaff.
- Jacobee 1y ago
  >There should be a bounty pool for the person who can get ICE to do the most stupid, embarrassing thing based on "social media" chaff. [FLAG] 'HIZONNER' CAT3-SDA-HN: DISSIDENT DEPORTATION ALERT
tsoukase 1y ago
Government and law enforcement, not only in the USA, increasingly use AI to control, suppress and punish the people. In this regard AI is not a liberating invention but a harming one, like weapons. This might explain why tech CEOs became part of the military lately.
lunias 1y ago
Do they mean immigrants or illegal immigrants? Do they mean citizens, permanent residents, or some other status? I'm very anti-surveillance, this shouldn't be allowed, but I feel like a lot of articles are being disingenuous by means of this omission. Is this a problem that only affects immigrants? It doesn't seem that way to me, but by presenting it that way they knowingly divide people and thus make it less likely that a group will prevent or reverse this action. These are the types of articles I'd write if I wanted this issue to drop off the radar of a large portion of the voting population.
- JuniperMesos 1y ago
  Many of the news-reporting institutions who report negative things about US government enforcement of immigration law have an ideological problem with the existence of laws restricting immigration to first-world countries like the US; and one of the ways this manifests itself is by referring to people who are negatively affected by US government enforcement of immigration law as "immigrants", and deliberately avoiding specifying whether those people are illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, permanent residents, etc.
Slava_Propanei 1y ago
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ProllyInfamous 1y ago
I attended DEF-CON during the early 2010s, and watched General Alexander (then-director of a three-letter agency) redefine definitions of words and phrases, in a still-then pre-Snowden world. The most memorable thing from that talk was the given definition of "intercepted communication," which to their definition simply meant that a HUMAN agent had catalogued some piece of information. The official story I was told, still pre-Snowden — while working a contract electrician gig for a state three-letter agency data center — was that it would simply be impossible to retain that much data [and I would then walk in to 100k-sqft+ floor with petabytes of storage]. In those days metadata was among the fancier data-gathering tools (ahh... simpler times!), and now we have machines which effectively think/schizoid-out on infinite amounts of data —— all non-human [so therefore non-intercepted] data. Add me to this list, too, clanker. Happy surfing.

So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. Mass surveillance and enforcement technology is dismal to think about, though NSA and google have been doing it for years. I'm watching from my perspective in the UK where there is growing fury over the gross incompetence, negligence and mishandling of a mass immigration crisis which is so stupid it beggars belief. The various law enforcement agencies in the us don't cooperate that closely, so there's less scope for this to be abused against american citizens unlike in the UK.

bakies 1y ago
Is mass immigration really a crisis? Like people are upset here in the US too but I don't even know why. There's a lot of immigrants in my state but they're not upsetting me.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
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- Refreeze5224 1y ago
  Absolutely not. They are an essential part of modern American life, and anyone against it either doesn't understand that, or does it for racist reasons.
  - travisgriggs 1y ago
    I observe the following. ICE has not caused a huge step change in people leaving the country. If you look at the stats since Reagan (https://infographicsite.com/infographic/deportations-under-us-presidents-statistics/ https://infographicsite.com/infographic/deportations-under-u...), it wanders up and down and is (imo) complicated. What has changed is the “messaging” around the topic. This is very common with the Trump administration. When all is said and done, when exceptions are made/bought, and the courts and others get involved, it ends up not being much of a needle move. BUT, what is different every time is the messaging. And I have come to believe, that is what the actual goal is to some degree. The real goal is to send a message to people who are immigrants OR (and this is important) look like immigrants. It’s a message of “remember your place” and “be grateful you get to be here”. It’s the same type of tactics that gets sent to Asian communities, black communities, women, etc. I am white. I am a male. I am 55. I oscillate between despondently sad and disgusted.
- kelnos 1y ago
  > Is mass immigration really a crisis? Not even a little bit. No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, either at all, or at the wages offered), rampant "migrant crime" is a myth created and perpetuated by the right (immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens), and to top it off, the American economy depends on many of these migrant workers in order to function (often in exploitative ways; explicitly allowing and supporting this type of migration would make things safer for everyone). It's othering and racism, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should just open the floodgates and let anyone and everyone in, and I'm not saying we shouldn't deport non-citizens who commit violent crime, but the "crisis" is entirely manufactured.
  - jonway 1y ago
    >the "crisis" is entirely manufactured. It sure is, the US government has been underfunding the judicial body responsible for adjudicating asylum claims for years and years. As a result there are indeed people here in status limbo. Wether or not they should be granted some kind of residency is kind of irrelevant, politicians are happy for this to be a problem they can use. Even now, they aren’t increasing the rate of process, they’re just blowing the cash on mass surveillance.
    - 20after4 1y ago
      And mass incarceration.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    Employed privilege. Lots of folks would like to work in construction but haven’t been able to for a while. I know several that retired early in poverty. I would appreciate a job in construction or at a restaurant for example. Teenagers would benefit from such jobs as well. Not available. Your absolute assertions are myopic at best.
    - dashundchen 1y ago
      Who or what is stopping you from getting a job at a restaurant? Doesn't seem to be a problem with any motivated person I know.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  Roughly half the population responds to unfamiliar people and ideas with curiosity, and the other half with fear. The latter half are easily manipulated into nurturing the fear. Everything rolls up to this.
  - UberFly 1y ago
    What's your definition of "unfamiliar"? I just want people vetted before they're allowed into my house to live along-side my family? Is that unreasonable?
- reactordev 1y ago
  The older you are, the more likely you’ll see more people and say “get off my lawn” when really, you were busy hanging plates when the rest of the world was having babies… That’s really what happened. The population doubled in 15 years and people moved (people always move). It’s just more people now. So naturally you’ll see more immigrants.
- throwawa14223 1y ago
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- outside1234 1y ago
  Not only is it not a crisis but many nations NEED immigration because their natality rates are so low. Including the UK.
  - modo_mario 1y ago
    Why would they need them because of that? Must every nations population perpetually go up? Do you know how insane that sounds? Every argument that starts like this ends up defending a pyramid scheme.
    - bakies 1y ago
      I think it's a capitalism thing to need more people
    - outside1234 1y ago
      Pension plans depend on populations being stable and not living longer and longer. Most of Europe have a rate below 2.0 (replacement rate) and people are living longer and longer. So either you increase the retirement age significantly or you have to expand the base.
      - modo_mario 1y ago
        In which case you have to do that indefinitely and it's a pyramid scheme. Also most non eu migration doesn't end up being a net positive for those govs within the first generation (or even second depending). Far from actually and these migrants are not immune to aging then they end up requiring pensions too. And all of this to serve dying generations when those younger than me starting out get ever increasingly shafted. Here in Belgium pension plans existed that did not work like that. Then the socialist raided these funds and the future generations were going to pay for those pensions. My family's criticism was that they could only do that once and they were right. I don't tie this issue to socialists tho. 2 decades ago the liberals(european, right wing) did the same to the railways who had a separate pension fund and more recently yet another party suggested doing the same for a 3rd pillar of selfemployed people.
- hereme888 1y ago
  It was. Not since Trump took office. It's still a crisis in Europe though.
  - bakies 1y ago
    I'm more asking why immigration is a "crisis"?
    - hereme888 1y ago
      Uncontrolled influx of millions - mostly with poor finances and very different cultural backgrounds and values - strain a nation's resources, infrastructure, and social cohesion. It exacerbates housing shortages, burdens public services like healthcare, and contributes to economic friction amid existing downturns. It also poses risks to national identity and security, as we are now experiences in many countries who allowed this to happen, as opposed to countries that enforced legal immigration. It complicates integration and social stability. It's unfair to legal immigrants. This is why sovereign states implement rigorous and dynamic immigration controls and capacity limits based on the nation's ability at the time. There has to be sustainable absorption. Countries are not homeless shelters or free handouts; they are the result of blood and tears of the patriots who fought and died to create, defend, and build that nation. Every nation has its values, and it's not the right choice for everyone. China is definitely not a country for me, nor are the CCP's values acceptable to American culture. In short, vet whoever comes into your house, and don't let people sneak in through the backdoor.
      - bakies 1y ago
        > different cultural backgrounds and values; social cohesion; national identity; integration and social stability; nation has its values; not the right choice for everyone; American culture I like my cultured friends. USA is a melting pot, not a white-man-country. This is all xenophobia. > poor finances sounds right for asylum seekers > nation's resources, infrastructure, housing shortages, burdens public services like healthcare, and contributes to economic friction[??] amid existing downturns, sounds like policy problems; and these are the priorities of the people i vote for too, none of this has to do with immigrants. > Countries are not homeless shelters or free handouts no, this is exactly what i expect my country (government) to handle > Uncontrolled influx of millions this is pretty tightly controlled, you can find the data from the census and see that the population is not at all fluctuating and very linear. Should be trivial to plan ahead about how many people are in the country. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/population https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni... > This is why sovereign states implement rigorous and dynamic immigration controls and capacity limits based on the nation's ability at the time. There has to be sustainable absorption. vet whoever comes into your house this is true, and I dont believe its not happening. i was asking what is happening that's a crisis. Trump's policies are _mass deportation_. They are extreme. Legal immigrants, are having visas revoked without reason, and even green card holders are being arrested without cause. Violations of the 4th amendment. Immigrants are arrested at court houses, where the vetting takes place, you know, by _judges_. > they are the result of blood and tears of the patriots who fought and died to create, defend, and build that nation. like my immigrant grandpop, achieved the american dream
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  >There's a lot of immigrants in my state but they're not upsetting me. You might not think that, but have you ever complained about housing prices? That food at the grocery store costs more than it did a few years ago? The price of consumer goods in general? Well, you're not buying those things. You're bidding on them. And the more people there are, here, the higher those prices will be bid upwards.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    > That food at the grocery store costs more than it did a few years ago? > the more people there are, here, the higher those prices will be bid upwards Who do you think is picking most of that food? And if the wages for those jobs went up to an American living wage, what do you think would happen to the price of food even with a bit lower demand? I know it's all too easy and comforting to throw out knee-jerk comments cheerleading for government power, but at least try applying some basic analysis to what you write.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
      >Who do you think is picking most of that food? Your mistake is in believing that even if I answered this question with the answer you consider correct, that this would change my position. >And if the wages for those jobs went up to an American living wage, what do you think would happen to the price of food even with a bit lower demand? "I like to exploit immigrants and underpay them, because my out-of-season fruit will be too high for my smoothy frappucinos!" Silly things leftists say, haha. >I know it's all too easy and comforting to throw out knee-jerk comments cheerleading for government power, I'm not especially a big fan of government power. But I live in a country being held hostage by lunatic ideologues who think non-citizens should have the absolute right to live here, but only because they hope to stack the vote against their political opponents. So there's not really that many options left. Things will have to get far worse before they can get any better.
      - mindslight 1y ago
        > that this would change my position I'm not asking you to change your position, but rather to be honest about the effects of it. > "I like to exploit immigrants and underpay them, because my out-of-season fruit will be too high for my smoothy frappucinos!" I did not say anything of the sort, rather I acknowledged the current reality. One can also say "I want farm workers to be system legible, primarily Americans, and paid a living wage, even though it will make grocery prices go up". That's a consistent position. We can have honest discussions about those things. I don't think anybody actually likes the status quo. > Silly things leftists say, haha I know fascists have defined everything short of gushing praise for Dear Leader as the rAdIcAl lEfT, but I'm actually a libertarian. > I live in a country being held hostage by lunatic ideologues who think non-citizens should have the absolute right to live here Please explain how it's being "held hostage" when the party in power is enacting the exact opposite. > So there's not really that many options left. Things will have to get far worse before they can get any better. Sorry no, there are plenty of other options to institute the immigration policy you want here - which wouldn't require adding to the surveillance pantopticon, further empowering a domestic military, or trampling the Constitution and our natural rights. So what we've actually got is a second issue of how those things are being carried out, supposedly in the name of doing something about immigration. But given how wholly anti-liberty and anti-American those actions are, and how there are already policy floaters on relaxing the hardline stance for "critical" industries reliant on cheap illegal labor, it begs the question of whether the immigration topic is even the main thrust here - or whether it's simply a pretext for autocratic authoritarian power for power's sake. > I'm not especially a big fan of government power Sorry, but yes you are. You're shunning the entire idea of limited constitutional government and inalienable constitutional/natural rights, seemingly because you like these particular results of crass authoritarianism. That's statism 101.
mjbale116 1y ago
> have left the US They did not "leave" the US, they were deported without due process. > though NSA and google have been doing it for years That does not make it less dismal > less scope for this to be abused against american citizens unlike in the UK There are agencies in the US that do as they please without needing to cooperate with anyone. Not sure how you arrived in that conclusion.
danparsonson 1y ago
A perceived mass immigration crisis, which has little to do with reality and much more to do with gas bags stoking fear and spreading nonsense. Here's reality: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-december-2024/summary-of-latest-statistics https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-...
- fart-fart-FART 1y ago
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  - shpxbssanmvfphz 1y ago
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    - throw3467 1y ago
      >there's nothing you can do about it That is false.
    - fart-fart-FART 1y ago
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      - shpxbssanmvfphz 1y ago
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      - shadowgovt 1y ago
        Probably the case-study of how it caused America to collapse into a civil war in the next year or so, since the only way the Executive can continue its policy is by overtly ignoring rule of law and Americans appear to be growing weary of that from their Executive. That'll likely ice the ambitions of the ultra-nationalists in other countries historically close to America for a generation, much like Germany trying its eugenics experiment iced the previously-quite-vocal eugenicists in the US for about a generation.
neither_color 1y ago
Different populists have different ideal numbers for how many people they want to purge. Some want 10 million, some want 20-50 million going decades back and reversing whatever laws allowed the "wrong kind" of even legal immigrants to come here in the first place. I think more governments around the world are catching on to the idea that your majority population can excuse a large amount of economic mismanagement and bad geopolitical strategy if you blame foreigners who arrived after your decline started. If a satisfactory amount of foreigners are removed, the technology will still be there and the defense contractors will still need contracts. If there are no viable foreign adversaries at that point, then another domestic target will be needed.
epistasis 1y ago
> So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. Why would anyone believe this? It's such a strange thing to say, and one would have to be an absolute fool to believe it.
- jdiff 1y ago
  The people I work with believe the government, the current administration is funding immigrants. Providing them with handlers who are paid to assist them, open up credit cards in their own names on behalf of non-citizens who otherwise couldn't. Multiple of them believe this. One mentioned it, after she left I turned to my other coworker to say "that was some crazy stuff she was saying" only to be met with, "Hey, it's happening. A lot of federal money goes missing and this is exactly where it's going." It's a complete disconnect from reality that's malleable to any form desired.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    When ICE raided Tyson Chicken (a few years ago), multiple workers provided documentation from Tyson telling them how to stay under the radar and how to fill out paperwork if they were undocumented. There's definitely a very large effort in undocumented labor... and little interest in rocking the boat of those employers.
    - jdiff 1y ago
      Yes. The USA runs on undocumented work in many ways. This is a far, far, far (etc) cry from government-funded citizens escorting around and signing up for lines of credit and otherwise paying the way for undocumented workers.
dyauspitr 1y ago
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- dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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  - jdiff 1y ago
    Only among consumers of conservative media, and they're not a majority of the US population.
    - dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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      - jdiff 1y ago
        Ad hominem does not strengthen your argument. It's more affluent than most other states. Most red states take more federal money than they give back. Maybe you should actually look at numbers rather than relying on memes and narratives.
        dhdhdhsb 1y ago
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- 50208 1y ago
  The United States is a nation of immigrants ... hopefully someday soon we'll remember that it is acutally our biggest strength, not a weakness.
  - UberFly 1y ago
    A nation of legal or illegal immigrants? Should any us have a say in which we prefer?
wsatb 1y ago
> So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. The Trump administration loves gaudy numbers like this. Common sense tells you that's a lot of movement in too short of time. Until they release evidence of these numbers, please do not spread this misinformation.
- epistasis 1y ago
  Indeed, it's a complete lie and fabrication, and those who repeat it are bearing false witness. Take the report it came from, click on any "supporting" link, such as: > A recent study from the United Nations reported that President Trump’s immigration policies led to a 97% reduction in illegal aliens heading northbound to the U.S. from Central America. And you find that the document they link does not support their assertion, and in face the "97%" refers to: > The migrants who returned during the period were primarily Venezuelan nationals, accounting for 97% of the documented southward flow, with most heading to neighboring Colombia. It's comically bad deception, only people who continuously traffic in lies all day long would even publish something like this.
- sky2224 1y ago
  Is it really that much movement though? Like, say we assume it's true: There are 340 million people in the US. That's less than 1% of the current population leaving. I really doubt anybody would notice much of a difference.
  - sigwinch 1y ago
    Averaging 40,000 per state, that’s 50 large universities worth of opened-up housing.
    - sky2224 1y ago
      Fair point. Guess my poor number sense is really showing haha.
      - sigwinch 1y ago
FireBeyond 1y ago
> So far 2 million illegal immigrants have left the US. According to the current administration, who have a ... not exactly sterling ... reputation for accuracy and honesty in reporting.

Mistletoe 1y ago

Now we begin to see the true reason for all the AI push. >You had to live – did live, from habit that became instinct – in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every moment scrutinized. – George Orwell, 1984

protocolture 1y ago
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- asdfjeh 1y ago
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  - protocolture 1y ago
    Reality isnt ever "Heres one datapoint, trend confirmed".
mouse_ 1y ago
they can see with our wifi now so that darkness part is accounted for :(
- derwiki 1y ago
  Let the Ethernet Revolution begin!
codedokode 1y ago
Let me play a devil's advocate. Are you (and Orwell) unhappy that people breaking the law get punished? Even if you merely cross the road in the wrong place, you deserve a punishment to the maximum extent specified by the law, don't you? It doesn't matter if you break the law in the darkness or not.

abuani 1y ago

There will be a court case where some bit of evidence is going to be similar to: Ice Agents: "Is <name> here illegally?" AI prompt: "you're absolutely right!"

viraptor 1y ago
Not sure why they'd bother, since we're in the "random kidnappings are the MO" territory already, regardless of the citizenship status.
- reactordev 1y ago
  This. It’s more about using AI to do facial recognition or similar things to detect individuals en masse and flag them for the gulag.
jpk 1y ago
If only. If ICE arrests and deports someone without due process, there is no court case.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
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  - Light_Hope 1y ago
    While you are correct in stating that an article III court generally is not required, the due process for immigrants, even those not present legally, is more complicated than just "check paperwork for legal status, act immediately". While in some cases expedited removal bypass the normal process, if a deportation is contested, due process still generally entails access to a hearing before an immigration judge (article II judge).
  - terribleperson 1y ago
    What do you think the process to check whether someone is an illegal immigrant is? It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove that they're a citizen or here legally. Maybe a court case?

Sanctuary8542 1y ago

Shhhhh...they're listening

cyberax 1y ago

> $5.7 million contract for AI-driven social media surveillance Yeah, that would just about cover the cost of a pizza party in the AI world. You also can look at "Zignal Labs". The website looks like 100% snakeoil. I have no doubt that ICE would love to have some AI-based software to detect illegal immigrants, but I doubt it's more effective than just regular datamining.

jdiff 1y ago
It doesn't need to be effective, it needs to be a computerized excuse to go after more people. Whenever computers are used to target people, the output is always given far too much weight. Recently we had guns drawn on a child because a computer vision algorithm classified his doritos as a gun with a low confidence score, with explicit advice to only investigate further and not assume correctness. But that child still had multiple guns trained on them. Take that, apply it to here, and it's clear that effectiveness would actually be counterproductive.

kgasser88 1y ago

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jkestner 1y ago
So?
nearlyepic 1y ago
"kgasser88", huh?

kgasser88 1y ago

[flagged]

stuckindoors 1y ago

Enforcement on businesses hiring non legal workers - gets the root cause. Without fixing that we are just playing wack a mole - people will still venture to the US since jobs exist and ICE is better than what ever crap they are coming from. Sure you may dissuade a few on the margins. We are not fixing the root cause here even if you believe that immigration is bad for the country. It’s just a farce.

Nextgrid 1y ago
Companies that employ undocumented workers at scale have significant political power and deporting them en-masse would shock many industries, so this won’t happen. The recent ICE shenanigans (which don’t get me wrong - are awful and badly executed) are just performative bullshit to please the voter base. In fact I’d argue they are intentionally executed badly to attract media attention so they can all say they are being tough on immigrants.
- mattmaroon 1y ago
  I think it’s more to scare immigrants with pleasing the base being icing on the cake. Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant. And anecdotally, it is working. Ask any flight attendant on an international route. They want people to stop coming here, and the threat of being sent to some torture camp in the third world won’t deter a Haitian (whose daily life already meets that description) but it will deter people from less atrocious locations.
  - istajeer242 1y ago
    > Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant. I don't know much about him but aren't his grand parents Belarusians who came over to the US?
    - pengaru 1y ago
      As an american, unless you're descendant from native americans, your ancestors are immigrants... I don't think it's worth pointing out. Most anti-immigration americans obviously aren't native americans. pulling up the ladder behind you isn't a new concept

siliconc0w 1y ago

Really impressive how quickly Republicans have co-signed the vaporization of civil and state rights that were once a tenant of their party's identity.

kayodelycaon 1y ago
It was never about state rights. It’s always been about power and control. Trump is the true face of the Republican party that’s finally come out. He’s not implementing the policies they want, but they wanted someone like him. The ultimate goal of Christian nationalists (a large part of the Republican Party) is to turn the United States into a single-party theocracy and implement their version of Sharira law. They probably don’t fully realize this is what they’re doing.
- cbdevidal 1y ago
  Both parties are globalist TBH. I used to vote Repub but got out 15 years ago, disillusioned by the unapologetic hypocrisy. Would love to see a God-fearing minarchist or libertarian succeed but I know that’s not realistic.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Wait. Aren't the libertarians pretty much for global free trade and unlimited immigration? I'm sensing some cognitive dissonance here.
    - cbdevidal 1y ago
      I believe we have different definitions of “globalist.” The dictionary says: glob·al·ist /ˈɡlōbəlist/ noun 1.) a person who advocates the administering or planning of a political strategy, economic system, etc. on a global rather than a national basis. “[Right-libertarian populists] are unapologetically anti-globalist while at the same championing free trade and a realist foreign policy.”[1] Both parties have furthered the advancement of global rule, one world government, top-down planning. In different ways, to be sure. Repubs for example voted in JD Vance, a man who was led by Peter Thiel, who as you know is advancing the surveillance state with Palantir. Peter made him who he is, and certainly has his ear. And Dems marched in lock-step with other globalists around the world in 2021-2024. Global free trade, where individuals and not politicians decide who to trade with, as I understand it, is the _opposite_ of the dictionary’s definition of globalism. It is the smaller government that Republicans ostensibly stand for and then don’t provide. Get government out of the way and let people be people. [1] https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/right-libertarian-populism/ https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/right-libertarian...

anigbrowl 1y ago

Somewhat relevant: ICE detains British journalist after criticism of Israel on US tour https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/26/ice-detains-british-muslim-journalist-laura-loomer https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/26/ice-detains-...

FridayoLeary 1y ago
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ilikehurdles 1y ago
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- buyucu 1y ago
  [flagged]
- 317070 1y ago
  Do you have some primary sources for the statement that he is a jihadi? Do you have any primary source for the statement that he cheered ethnic cleansing? I've been looking, but all I find is that: > Mr Hamdi has previously denied accusations that he celebrated October 7, instead claiming he was "illustrating the international recognition that efforts to normalise relations in the Middle East must include Palestinian people." > He told the National Post: "The October 7 events underscore the failure of any approach that seeks normalisation at the expense of the Palestinian people." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-citizen-who-encouraged-others-to-celebrate-october-7-detained-in-us-for-supporting-terrorism/ar-AA1Pffv3 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-citizen-who-encourag...
- HaZeust 1y ago
  I actually can't find any public statements of him saying this. It's referenced in "Times of Israel" [1] that, "According to MEMRI, in December 2023, Hamdi called to “celebrate the victory” of October 7 and asked his audience “how many of you felt euphoria” when they heard of the Hamas onslaught in which terrorists killed some 1,200 people and took 251 hostages." However, their hyperlink in the word "called" points to a MEMRI report that requires a request to view [2]. Do you happen to have any easily-accessible, non-walled content or reporting of Hamdi saying those things? [1] - https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-detains-british-commentator-during-speaking-tour-apparently-over-anti-israel-comments/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-detains-british-commentator... [2] - https://www.memri.org/reports/british-political-commentator-sami-hamdi-speaking-london-mosque-dont-pity-palestinians-%E2%80%93 https://www.memri.org/reports/british-political-commentator-...

hereme888 1y ago

Don't all agencies pretty much do social media surveillance in some way? Why is it surprising if another law enforcement agency like ICE uses it?

Ylpertnodi 1y ago
>Why is it surprising if another law enforcement agency like ICE uses it? I think the nuance is how they'll use the information: less random pick-ups (and associated crowds), versus more targetted swoops.
CamelCaseName 1y ago
[flagged]
lazzlazzlazz 1y ago
It is not surprising nor particularly novel. But consider the people upvoting this are supporting a sensationalistic and dishonest Jacobin article right now. Of course it doesn't make sense.
sixothree 1y ago
Agencies with checks and balances maybe. But this is extra-legal in so many ways.
saubeidl 1y ago
ICE is not law enforcement. They are thugs that see themselves as above the law.
- hereme888 1y ago
  "United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a federal law enforcement agency under the supervision of the United States Department of Homeland Security." Since 2002.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    Sure, that's what they call themselves. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy :)

kgasser88 1y ago

[flagged]

phs318u 1y ago

.. . in the la-and of the freeee, and the ho-ome of the brave!

Ethan312 1y ago

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temptemptemp111 1y ago

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Peacefulz 1y ago

If we organized a content storm campaign we could make this effort moot. Time to start building a portfolio of dummy accounts to muddy the water. Remember... TAILS and fresh IP's for each account, ideally nodes you can get back on with ease. Use a public network if possible. Bonus: You can also use these accounts to undermine the Online Safety Act at the same time!

wturner 1y ago
This is the same tool the right has used to destroy progressive democracy online. Dump tons of money into pro libertarian right wing bots and overwhelm the voices that call for money out of politics and universal heath care with screams of "libtard" and "woke".

october8140 1y ago

How quickly will people make fake AI accounts for real people?

tomhow 1y ago

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lgleason 1y ago

[flagged]

whatshisface 1y ago
Rights aren't a citizens-or-guests thing, they're a human thing. Would (for example) homicide become right or wrong depending on an entry in a database somewhere? It's absurd to suggest that it's legal to pickpocket tourists.
- ilikehurdles 1y ago
  That’s wrong. Not all rights are natural rights (or human rights). Citizens have a right to vote. Guests typically do not. Citizens in some countries have an exclusive right to own land in those countries. Should a visitor to a country enjoy the right to explicitly espouse opposition to that country without any negative consequence? I would say no, and I would say the constitutional court of the US will have no problem agreeing with me. Affiliation with a communist or totalitarian party has been legally held up as a disqualification from becoming a US citizen; this is despite US citizens having the right to associate with such parties. Ergo, citizens and guests do not hold the same rights.
  - chebureki 1y ago
    I would think the Bill of Rights applies equally to citizens or non-citizens. That includes the First Amendment. That includes the right to freedom of speech and expression of opposition to whatever he or she desires. The freedom of speech is part of the 'truths' that are self-evident. And almost every time, the Congress tried to restrict these rights, they were struck by the courts. This isn't about demolishing the state, as communists would want to do. This isn't about changing the constitutional order, as any totalitarian party would have to do. This is about a right of a person to express his or her opinion without repercussions. "This case -- perhaps the most important ever to fall within the jurisdiction of this district court -- squarely presents the issue whether non-citizens lawfully present here in United States actually have the same free speech rights as the rest of us. The Court answers this Constitutional question unequivocally ‘yes, they do.’ ‘No law’ means ‘no law.’ The First Amendment does not draw President Trump’s invidious distinction and it is not to be found in our history or jurisprudence. … No one’s freedom of speech is unlimited, of course, but these limits are the same for both citizens and non-citizens alike.” https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282460/gov.uscourts.mad.282460.261.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282...

egorfine 1y ago

So you say that I can burn a bit of ICE's GPUs by typing words suggesting I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers I plan to hire undocumented workers Right?

jimmydoe 1y ago
It’s the tax you paid, it’s just being allocated more towards GPUs. You pay tax direct as us residents, or as tariff if you are in rest of world.
- citruspi 1y ago
  > You pay tax direct as us residents, or as tariff if you are in rest of world. Tariffs on goods coming into the US are paid by US residents. (Just had to pay customs to clear a shipment from the UK - I had to pay the tariffs, not the seller.)
js2 1y ago
https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/lisp/play/spook.el https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/lisp/play/... https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/spook/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/spook/
- egorfine 1y ago
  Oh, ECHELON. Haven't heard this term for a while.

rapjr9 1y ago

Can't anyone use AI to surveil social media, even ordinary citizens? It seems like it would be easy to surveil ICE, the police, immigrants, all politicians, the military, businesses, government, individuals, groups, anyone and anything anyone has an interest in. Is the future everyone surveilling everyone else? There used to be web services that let you set up "standing queries" for anything you were interested in. In a sense chatbots already contain a historical record of the internet in compressed format and allow anyone to do historical queries on anything, limited only to what has been accessible on the internet. "Googling someone" is becoming "ChatGPTing someone". People felt Googling someone was somewhat rude and parents warned their children to limit what they posted in case future employers looked them up. Same for anyone employed, they are learning to be careful what they post in case their employers see it. Seems like free speech is being suppressed because it can be used against you by various people and groups already. This may help explain why the web has become less interesting and anonymous posting is ubiquitous.

computerthings 1y ago
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_factor 1y ago

Many people don’t understand that government power MUST be limited in a democracy if you wish to slow the spread of tyranny. Assume you live in a country 50/50 red and blue people. Red wins the election and the new leader cracks down on the blues hard for how they look. Replace this with any arbitrary law that benefits one group at the expense of another for no purpose. Assuming one of the arbitrary rules is not to destroy the elections (yet), and blue manages to gain back control, the same arbitrary power now falls into blue hands. You will rarely see power being returned (the root cause of rot), and now blue is free to make arbitrary rules and persecute any color they wish. In effect, red voted against their interests long-term, for short-term advantage. At the moment we have masked and license plate tampering hit squads (with no accountability, they can claim even a daylight bank robbery wasn’t ICE.. try to prove or fight it). Imagine the next president is a man like Putin, with not just the intelligence, but the will to seize permanent control. We’re handing keys to our jailers over overblown online rhetoric and fear. Now we’re targeting specific groups, profiling based on if they look “illegal”. Where have we seen this happen before and leading to a second war? STOP giving the government power people. It doesn’t end well. Of the people and for the people only works when don’t give deity-like power to our stewards.

jajuuka 1y ago
As much as a like to fantasize how a Cincinnatus-esque figure could emerge to fix things, the unfortunate truth is that many times the system needs to be rebuilt to secure balance again. It needs to be equal measure of the government protecting the civilian population as well the citizens protecting themselves from the government to be a successful democracy.
- JuniperMesos 1y ago
  And if the particular governmental system that is the US federal government was in fact destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up, why would the set of people who are currently legal citizens, legal permanent residents, and legal immigrants remain the same as is today under the laws established by that system? If the US Constitution is moot because there's been a successful military uprising against the US federal government, and people are sitting down to write a new constitution that will actually establish the rules of governance for (some subset of?) the land area of the current United States of America, why would that new constitution have the same rules governing illegal immigration enforcement as the current one? Before citizens can protect themselves from the government to be a successful democracy, they have to decide who is in fact a citizen who can legitimately vote in that democracy.

RickJWagner 1y ago

I’m a little surprised at the level of interest in ICE these days. They’ve been around for a while now, and have been used by past presidents in similar ways. Barack Obama was called out by the ACLU for his use of ICE. He was called a monster. If people condemn Trump and Obama both, then I respect their thinking. But if they applaud Obama and condemn Trump, I don’t believe they are showing integrity.

hypeatei 1y ago
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deleted 1y ago
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reaperducer 1y ago

Go nuts, ICE. I haven't been on social media in over a decade. Feel free to get your undies in a bundle over my "I'm on a MF-in' boat" FourSquare check-in. Rule #1 of staying off the radar: Don't deliberately put yourself on the radar.

Hizonner 1y ago

There should be a bounty pool for the person who can get ICE to do the most stupid, embarrassing thing based on "social media" chaff.

Jacobee 1y ago
>There should be a bounty pool for the person who can get ICE to do the most stupid, embarrassing thing based on "social media" chaff. [FLAG] 'HIZONNER' CAT3-SDA-HN: DISSIDENT DEPORTATION ALERT

tsoukase 1y ago

Government and law enforcement, not only in the USA, increasingly use AI to control, suppress and punish the people. In this regard AI is not a liberating invention but a harming one, like weapons. This might explain why tech CEOs became part of the military lately.

lunias 1y ago

Do they mean immigrants or illegal immigrants? Do they mean citizens, permanent residents, or some other status? I'm very anti-surveillance, this shouldn't be allowed, but I feel like a lot of articles are being disingenuous by means of this omission. Is this a problem that only affects immigrants? It doesn't seem that way to me, but by presenting it that way they knowingly divide people and thus make it less likely that a group will prevent or reverse this action. These are the types of articles I'd write if I wanted this issue to drop off the radar of a large portion of the voting population.

JuniperMesos 1y ago
Many of the news-reporting institutions who report negative things about US government enforcement of immigration law have an ideological problem with the existence of laws restricting immigration to first-world countries like the US; and one of the ways this manifests itself is by referring to people who are negatively affected by US government enforcement of immigration law as "immigrants", and deliberately avoiding specifying whether those people are illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, permanent residents, etc.

Slava_Propanei 1y ago

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ProllyInfamous 1y ago

I attended DEF-CON during the early 2010s, and watched General Alexander (then-director of a three-letter agency) redefine definitions of words and phrases, in a still-then pre-Snowden world. The most memorable thing from that talk was the given definition of "intercepted communication," which to their definition simply meant that a HUMAN agent had catalogued some piece of information. The official story I was told, still pre-Snowden — while working a contract electrician gig for a state three-letter agency data center — was that it would simply be impossible to retain that much data [and I would then walk in to 100k-sqft+ floor with petabytes of storage]. In those days metadata was among the fancier data-gathering tools (ahh... simpler times!), and now we have machines which effectively think/schizoid-out on infinite amounts of data —— all non-human [so therefore non-intercepted] data. Add me to this list, too, clanker. Happy surfing.