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AMD and Sony's PS6 chipset aims to rethink the current graphics pipeline
- three_burgers 1y agoIt feels like each time SCE makes a new console, it'd always come with some novelty that's supposed to change the field forever, but after two years they'd always end up just another console.
- noir_lord 1y agoIt does but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, they at least are willing to take some calculated risks about architecture - since consoles have essentially collapsed to been a PC internally.
- three_burgers 1y agoI don't think it's a bad thing either. Consoles are a curious breed in today's consumer electronics landscape, it's great that someone's still devoted to doing interesting experiments with it.
- jpalawaga 1y agoYou end up with a weird phenomenon. Games written for the PlayStation exclusively get to take advantage of everything, but there is nothing to compare the release to. Alternatively, if a game is release cross-platform, there’s little incentive to tune the performance past the benchmarks of comparable platforms. Why make the PlayStation game look better than Xbox if it involves rewriting engine layer stuff to take advantage of the hardware, for one platform only. Basically all of the most interesting utilization of the hardware comes at the very end of the consoles lifecycle. It’s been like that for decades.
- ViscountPenguin 1y agoI suspect it won't be as much of an issue next gen, with Microsoft basically dropping out of the console market.
- awill 1y ago3rd party games will still want to launch on the Nintendo Switch 2, so it's still the same problem.
- dontlaugh 1y agoThe Switch (even 2) is nowhere near the same class of performance as PlayStation or Xbox, games on them aren't comparable.
- aziaziazi 1y agoYet those companies don’t necessarily compete for performance and comparaison, but instead for their own profit. If Nintendo makes profit from selling a device that runs a game in lower spec than Sony, they’re Happy with it. Computing devices aren’t driven by performance only.
- dontlaugh 1y agoSure, but the point I want replying to was about the Switch 2 being able to make up for the loss of the Xbox as a PlayStation competitor. It can’t.
- ErneX 1y agoThey are definitely doing something but it seems it’s going to be more PC-like. Like even supporting 3rd party stores. I’m intrigued.
- beagle3 1y agoIt’s also that way on the C64 - while it came out in 1981, people figures out how to get 8 bit sound and high resolution color graphics with multiple sprites only after 2000…
- three_burgers 1y agoI think apart from cross-platform woes (if you can call it that), it's also that the technology landscape would shift, two or few years after the console's release: For PS2, game consoles didn't become the centre of home computing; for PS3, programming against the GPU became the standard of doing real time graphics, not some exotic processor, plus that home entertaining moved on to take other forms (like watching YouTube on an iPad instead of having a media centre set up around the TV); for PS4, people didn't care if the console does social networking; PS5 has been practical, it's just the technology/approach ended up adopted by everyone, so it lost its novelty later on.
- pjmlp 1y agoThat is very country specific, many countries home computers since the 8 bit days always dominated, whereas others consoles always dominated since Nintendo/SEGA days.
- anthk 1y agoAlso tons of blue collar people bought Chinese NES clones even in mid 90's (at least in Spain) while some other people with white collar jobs bought their kids a Play Station. And OFC the Brick Game Tetris console was everywhere. By late 90's, yes, most people afforded a Play Station, but as for myself I've got a computer in very early 00's and I would emulate the PSX and most N64 games just fine (my computer wasn't a high end one, but the emulators were good enough to play the games at 640x480 and a bilinear filter).
- ffsm8 1y agoYou got a very "interesting" history there, it certainly not particularly grounded in reality however. PS3s edge was generally seen as the DVD player. That's why Sony went with Blue Ray in the PS4, hoping to capitalize on the next medium, too. While that bet didn't pay out, Xbox kinda self destructed, consequently making them the dominant player any way. Finally: > PS5 has been practical, it's just the technology/approach ended up adopted by everyone, so it lost its novelty later on. PS5 did not have any novel approach that was consequently adopted by others. The only thing "novel" in the current generation is frame generation, and that was already being pushed for years by the time Sony jumped on that bandwagon.
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- ericye16 1y agoMaybe I ate too much marketing but it does feel like having the PS5 support SSDs raised the bar for how fast games are expected to load, even across platforms.
- ThatPlayer 1y agoNot just loading times, but I expect more games do more aggressive dynamic asset streaming. Hopefully we'll get less 'squeeze through this gap in the wall while we hide the loading of the next area of the map' in games. Technically the PS4 supported 2.5" SATA or USB SSDs, but yeah PS5 is first gen that requires SSDs, and you cannot run PS5 games off USB anymore.
- numpad0 1y agoThat was kind of true until Xbox 360 and later Unity, those ended eras of consoles as machines made of quirks as well as game design as primarily software architecture problems. The definitive barrier to entry for indie gamedevs before Unity was the ability to write a toy OS, a rich 3D engine, and GUI toolkit by themselves. Only little storytelling skills were needed. Console also partially had to be quirky dragsters because of Moore's Law - they had to be ahead of PC by years, because it had to be at least comparable to PC games at the end of lifecycle, not utterly obsolete. But we've all moved on. IMO that is a good thing.
- Negitivefrags 1y agoI really hope that this doesn't come to pass. It's all in on the two worst trends in graphics right now. Hardware Raytracing and AI based upscaling.
- RedShift1 1y agoWhat's wrong with hardware raytracing?
- Negitivefrags 1y agoThere are a lot of theoretical arguments I could give you about how almost all cases where hardware BVH can be used, there are better and smarter algorithms to be using instead. Being proud of your hardware BVH implementation is kind of like being proud of your ultra-optimised hardware bubblesort implementation. But how about a practical argument instead. Enabling raytracing in games tends to suck. The graphical improvements on offer are simply not worth the performance cost. A common argument is that we don't have fast enough hardware yet, or developers haven't been able to use raytracing to it's fullest yet, but it's been a pretty long damn time since this hardware was mainstream. I think the most damning evidence of this is the just released Battlefield 6. This is a franchise that previously had raytracing as a top-level feature. This new release doesn't support it, doesn't intend to support it. And in a world where basically every AAA release is panned for performance problems, BF6 has articles like this: https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/battlefield-6-this-is-what-a-well-optimised-game-looks-like-in-2025/ https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/battlefield-6-this-is-what-...
- noir_lord 1y ago> But how about a practical argument instead. Enabling raytracing in games tends to suck. The graphical improvements on offer are simply not worth the performance cost. Pretty much this - even in games that have good ray tracing, I can't tell when it's off or on (except for the FPS hit) - I cared so little I bought a card not known to be good at it (7900XTX) because the two games I play the most don't support it anyway. They oversold the technology/benefits and I wasn't buying it.
- whatever1 1y agoHopefully their game lineup is not as underwhelming as the ps5 one.
- WhereIsTheTruth 1y agounderwhelming? what do you mean? every year, Playstation ranks very high when it comes to GOTY nominations just last year, Playstation had the most nominations for GOTY: https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1858558789320142971 https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1858558789320142971 not only that, but PS5 has more 1st party games than Microsoft's Xbox S|X 1053 vs 812 (that got inflated with recent Activision acquisition) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_5_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_5_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_Series_X_and_Series_S_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_Series_X_and_Seri... It's important to check the facts before spreading random FUD PS5 had the strongest lineup of games this generation, hence why they sold this many consoles Still today, consumers are attracted to PS5's lineup, and this is corroborated by facts and data https://www.vgchartz.com/ https://www.vgchartz.com/ In August for example, the ratio between PS5 and Xbox is 8:1; almost as good as the new Nintendo Switch 2, and the console is almost 5 years old! You say "underwhelming", people are saying otherwise
- whatever1 1y agoYeah, I don’t recall a single original game from the PS5 exclusive lineup (that wasn’t available for PS4). We did get some remakes and sequels, but the PS5 lineup pales in comparison to the PS4 one. Also, to my knowledge, the PS5 still lags behind the PS4 in terms of sales, despite the significant boost that COVID-19 provided.
- guidedlight 1y agoThe PS4 lineup pales in comparison to the PS3 lineup, which pales in comparison to the PS2 lineup, which pales in comparison to the PS1 lineup. Each generation has around half the number of games as the previous. This does get a bit murky with the advent of shovelware in online stores, but my point remains. I think this only proves is that games are now ridiculously expensive to create and met the quality standards expected. Maybe AI will improved this in this future. Take-Two has confirmed that GTA6's budget has exceeded US$1 billion, which is mind-blowing.
- Our_Benefactors 1y agoCell processor 2: electric boogaloo Seems they didn’t learn from the PS3, and that exotic architectures don't drive sales. Gamers don’t give a shit and devs won’t choose it unless they have a lucrative first party contract.
- bigyabai 1y agoCustom graphics architectures aren't always a disaster - the Switch 2 is putting up impressive results with their in-house DLSS acceleration. Now, shackling yourself to AMD and expecting a miracle... that I cannot say is a good idea. Maybe Cerny has seen something we haven't, who knows.
- farseer 1y agoThe entire Switch 1 game library is free to play on emulators. They probably put a custom accelerator to prevent reverse engineering. A consequence of using weaker spec parts than their competitors.
- bigyabai 1y agoThe Switch 1 also had CUDA cores and other basic hardware accelerators. To my knowledge (and I could be wrong), none of the APIs that Nintendo exposed even gave access to those fancy features. It should just be calls to NVN, which can be compiled into Vulkan the same way DXVK translates DirectX calls.
- izacus 1y agoWhat is "in-house dlss acceleration" in your context? What's in-house about it?
- bigyabai 1y agoIt's better off if I let Digital Foundry take it from here: https://youtu.be/BDvf1gsMgmY https://youtu.be/BDvf1gsMgmY TL:DW - it's not quite the full-fat CNN model but it's also not a uselessly pared-back upscaler. Seems to handle antialiasing and simple upscale well at super low TDPs (<10w).
- lofaszvanitt 1y agoNoone is gonna give you some groundbreaking tech for your electronic gadget.... As IBM showed when they created the Cell for Sony and then gave almost the same tech to Microsoft :D.
- ErneX 1y agoI don’t think they ever claimed that. Every time Mark Cerny discusses PS hardware he always mentions that it’s a collaboration, so whatever works for AMD they can use on their own GPUs, even for other clients.
- lofaszvanitt 1y agoI'm just saying no sane company gonna give you any edge in chiptech.
- magicalhippo 1y agoI was going to say "again?", but then I recalled DirectX 12 was released 10 years ago and now I feel old... The main goal of Direct3D 12, and subsequently Vulcan, was to allow for better use of the underlying graphics hardware as it had changed more and more from its fixed pipeline roots. So maybe the time is ripe for a rethink, again. Particularly the frame generation features, upscaling and frame interpolation, have promise but needs to be integrated in a different way I think to really be of benefit.
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- Hikikomori 1y agoDon't forget mantle.
- magicalhippo 1y agoWhile I didn't forget about it, I did misremember the timeline. So yea, Mantle should definitely be mentioned.
- scns 1y agoDid not Mantle become Vulkan?
- flohofwoe 1y agoYeah but that doesn't mean that much of Mantle is recognizeable in Vulkan, because Vulkan wanted to cover the entire range of GPU architectures (including outdated and mobile GPUs) with a single API, while Mantle was designed for modern (at the time) desktop GPUs (and specifically AMD GPUs). Vulkan basically took an elegant design and "ruined" it with too much real-word pragmatism ;)
- pjmlp 1y agoThe rethink is already taking place via mesh shaders and neural shaders. You aren't seeing them adopted that much, because the hardware still isn't deployed at scale that games can count on them being available, and also it cannot ping back on improving the developer experience adopting them.
- phendrenad2 1y agoSeems like the philosophy here is, if you're going to do AI-based rendering, might as well try it across different parts of the graphics pipeline and see if you can fine-tune it at the silicon level. Probably a microoptimization, but if it makes the PS6 look a tiny bit better than the Xbox, people will pay for that.
- amlib 1y agoCould the PS6 be the last console generation with an expressive improvement in compute and graphics? Miniaturization keeps giving ever more diminishing returns each shrink, prices of electronics are going up (even sans tariffs), lead by the increase in the price of making chips. Alternate techniques have slowly been introduced to offset the compute deficit, first with post processing AA in the seventh generation, then with "temporal everything" hacks (including TAA) in the previous generation and finally with minor usage of AI up-scaling in the current generation and (projected) major usage of AI up-scaling and frame-gen in the next gen. However, I'm pessimistic on how this can keep evolving. RT already takes a non trivial amount of transistor budget and now those high end AI solutions require another considerable chunk of the transistor budget. If we are already reaching the limits of what non generative AI up-scaling and frame-gen can do, I can't see where a PS7 can go other than using generative AI to interpret a very crude low-detail frame and generating a highly detailed photorealistic scene from that, but that will, I think, require many times more transistor budget than what will likely ever be economically achievable for a whole PS7 system. Will that be the end of consoles? Will everything move to the cloud and a power guzzling 4KW machine will take care of rendering your PS7 game? I really can only hope there is a break-trough in miniaturization and we can go back to a pace of improvement that can actually give us a new generation of consoles (and computers) that makes the transition from an SNES to a N64 feel quaint.
- bob1029 1y agoGaming using weird tech is not a hardware manufacturer or availability issue. It is a game studio leadership problem. Even in the latest versions of unreal and unity you will find the classic tools. They just won't be advertised and the engine vendor might even frown upon them during a tech demo to make their fancy new temporal slop solution seem superior. The trick is to not get taken for a ride by the tools vendors. Real time lights, "free" anti aliasing, and sub-pixel triangles are the forbidden fruits of game dev. It's really easy to get caught up in the devil's bargain of trading unlimited art detail for unknowns at end customer time.
- aurareturn 1y agoBeyond the PS6, the answer is very clearly graphics generated in real time via a transformer model. I’d be absolutely shocked if in 10 years, all AAA games aren’t being rendered by a transformer. Google’s veo 3 is already extremely impressive. No way games will be rendered through traditional shaders in 2035.
- pixelpoet 1y agoTeenage me from the 90s telling everyone that ray tracing will eventually take over all rendering and getting laughed at would be happy :)
- prox 1y agoHi teenage you! You did well :) The idea of the radiance cores is pretty neato
- ksec 1y ago>radiance cores is pretty nea I still dont understand how it is different to Nvidia's RT Core.
- jsheard 1y agoAFAICT it's not really different, they're just calling it something else for marketing reasons. The system described in the Sony patent (having a fixed-function unit traverse the BVH asynchronously from the shader cores) is more or less how Nvidia's RT cores worked from the beginning, as opposed to AMDs early attempts which accelerated certain intersection tests but still required the shader cores to drive the traversal loop.
- Sesse__ 1y agoIt's not, though. The use of RT in games is generally limited to secondary rays; the primaries are still rasterized. (Though the rasterization is increasingly done in “software rendering”, aka compute shaders.)
- pixelpoet 1y agoAs you can tell, I'm patient :) A very important quality for any ray tracing enthusiast lol The ability to do irregular sampling, efficient shadow computation (every flavour of shadow mapping is terrible!) and global illumination is already making its way into games, and path tracing has been the algorithm of choice in offline rendering (my profession since 2010) for quite a while already. Making a flexible rasterisation-based renderer is a huge engineering undertaking, see e.g. Unreal Engine. With the relentless march of processing power, and finally having hardware acceleration as rasterisation has enjoyed for decades, it's going to be possible for much smaller teams to deliver realistic and creative (see e.g. Dreams[0]) visuals with far less engineering effort. Some nice recent examples of this are Teardown[1] and Tiny Glade[2]. It's even more inevitable from today's point of view than it was back in the 90s :) [0] Dreams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9KNtnCZDMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9KNtnCZDMI [1] Teardown: https://teardowngame.com/ https://teardowngame.com/ [2] Tiny Glade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jusWW2pPnA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jusWW2pPnA0
- poisonborz 1y agoThe industry, and at large the gaming community is just long past being interested in graphics advancement. AAA games are too complicated and expensive, the whole notion of ever more complex and grandiose experiences doesn't scale. Gamers are fractured along thousands of small niches, even in sense of timeline in terms of 80s, 90s, PS1 era each having a small circle of businesses serving them. The times of console giants, their fiefdoms and the big game studios is coming to an end.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y agoidk, battlefield 6 came out today to very positive reviews and it's absolutely gorgeous.
- ksec 1y agoIt looks like Frostbite 4.0 is so much better than Unreal 5.x. I cant wait to see comparison.
- jimaek 1y agoIt's fine, but definitely a downgrade compared to previous titles like Battlefield 1. At moments it looks pretty bad. I'm curious why graphics are stagnating and even getting worse in many cases.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y agoHave you played it? I haven't so I'm just basing my opinion on some YouTube footage I've seen. BF1 is genuinely gorgeous, I can't lie. I think it's the photogrammetry. Do you think the lighting is better in BF1? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that BF6's lighting is more dynamic.
- jimaek 1y agoYes I played it on a 4090. The game is good but graphics are underwhelming. To my eyes everything looked better in BF1. Maybe it's trickery but it doesn't matter to me. BF6, new COD, and other games all look pretty bad. At least compared to what I would expect from games in 2025. I don't see any real differences from similar games released 10 years ago.
- amazari 1y agoSo this is AMD catching up with Nvidia in the RT and AI upscaling/frame gen fields. Nothing wrong with it, and I am quite happy as an AMD GPU owner and Linux user. But the way it is framed as a revolutionary step and as a Sony collab is a tad misleading. AMD is competent enough to do it by itself, and this will definitely show up in PC and the competing Xbox.
- esperent 1y agoI think we don't have enough details to make statements like this yet. Sony have shown they are willing to make esoteric gaming hardware in the past (cell architecture) and maybe they'll do something unique again this time. Or, maybe it'll just use a moderately custom model. Or, maybe it's just going to use exactly what AMD have planned for the next few year anyway (as you say). Time will tell. I'm rooting for something unique because I haven't owned a console for 20 years and I like interesting hardware. But hopefully they've learned a lesson about developer ergonomics this time around.
- SV_BubbleTime 1y ago>Sony have shown they are willing to make esoteric gaming hardware in the past (cell architecture) Just so we’re clear, you’re talking about a decision that didn’t really pan out made over 20 years ago. PS6 will be an upgraded PS5 without question. You aren’t ever going to see a massive divergence away from the PC everyone took the last twenty years working towards. The landscape favors Microsoft, but they’ll drop the ball, again.
- esperent 1y ago> you’re talking about a decision that didn’t really pan out made over 20 years ago. The PS3 sold 87m units, and more importantly, it sold more than the Xbox 360, so I think it panned out fine even if we shouldn't call it a roaring success. It did sell less than the PS2 or PS4 but I don't think the had much to do with the cell architecture. Game developer hated it, but that's a different issue. I do agree that a truly unusual architecture like this is very unlikely for the next gen though.
- jiehong 1y agoI see this as a test ground for the next thing on PC. Why not also give a mini AMD EPYC cpu with 32 cores? This way games would start to be much better at multicore.
- jayd16 1y agoI think this is probably on the docket. Epic seems to be in a push to offload a lot of animation work to more cores. The industry is going that way and that was a big topic at their last conference.
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- yomismoaqui 1y agoA new PS console already? PS5 will be remembered as the worst PS generation.
- cwbriscoe 1y agoThat would still be PS3 for me.
- kotaKat 1y agoI wonder how many variants of the PS6 they'll go through before they get a NIC that works right. As someone working at an ISP, I am frustrated with how bad Sony has mangled the networking stack on these consoles. I thought BSD was supposed to be the best in breed of networking but instead Sony has found all sorts of magical ways to make it Not Work. From the PS5 variants that just hate 802.11ax to all the gamers making wild suggestions like changing MTU settings or DNS settings just to make your games work online... man, does Sony make it a pain for us to troubleshoot when they wreck it. Bonus points that they took away the Web browser so we can't even try to do forward-facing troubleshooting without going through an obtuse process of the third-party-account-linking system to sneak out of the process to run a proper speedtest to Speedtest/Fast to show that "no, it's PSN being slow, not us".
- viktorcode 1y agoThis video is a direct continuation of the one where Cerny explains logic behind PlayStation 5 pro design and telling that the path forward for them goes into rendering near perfect low res image then upscaling it with neural networks to 4K. How good it will be? Just look at the current upscalers working on perfectly rendered images - photos. And they aren't doing it in realtime. So the errors, noise, and artefacts are all but inevitable. Those will be masked by post processing techniques that will inevitably degrade image clarity.
- wartywhoa23 1y agoIt only takes a marketing psyop to alter the perception of the end user with the slogans along the lines of "Tired of pixel exactness, hurt by sharpness? Free YOUR imagination and embrace the future of ever-shifting vague forms and softness. Artifact stands for Art!"
- LtdJorge 1y agoI’m replaying CP2077 for the third time, and all the sarcastic marketing material and ads you find in the game, don’t seem so sarcastic after all when you really think about the present.
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- shaggie76 1y agoThis reminds me of the PlayStation/2 developer manual which, when describing the complicated features of system, said something like "there is no profit in making it easy to extract the most performance from the system."
- curiousWaste 1y agoBoth raytracing and NPUs use a lot of bandwidth and that is scaling the least with time. Time will tell if just going for more programmable compute would be better
- Forgeties79 1y agoMaybe Sony should focus on getting a half-respectable library out on the PS5 before touting the theoretical merits of the PS6? It’s kind of wild how thin they are this go around. Their live service gambles clearly cost them this cycle and the PSVR2 landed with a thud. Frankly after releasing the $700 pro and going “it’s basically the same specs but it can actually do 4K60 this time we promise” and given how many friends I have with the PS5 sitting around as an expensive paper weight, I can’t see a world where I get a PS6 despite decades of console gaming. The PS5 is an oversized final fantasy machine supported by remakes/remasters of all their hits from the PS3/PS4 era. It’s kind of striking when you look at the most popular games on the console. Don’t even get me started on Xbox lol
- ErneX 1y agoIt has plenty of games not including cross gen games and remasters. Compared to the PS4 the output has been completely fine. But it’s a fact development times continue to increase. But that’s not a Sony thing it’s happening to every publisher.
- Forgeties79 1y agoIt really doesn’t though. The library stacked against PS4’s doesn’t even compare unless you want to count cross platform and even then PS4 still smokes it. The fact that Helldivers 2 is one of the only breakout successes they’ve had (and it didn’t even come from one of their internal studios) says everything. And of course they let it go cross platform too so that edge is gone now. All their best studios were tied up with live service games that have all been canceled. They wasted 5+ years and probably billions if we include the missed out sales. The PS4 was heavily driven by their close partner/internal teams and continue to carry a significant portion of the PS5’s playerbase. If you don’t need Final Fantasy or to (re)play improved PS4 games, the PS5 is an expensive paperweight and you may as well just grab a series S or something for half the price, half the shelf space, and play 90% of the same games. Let me ask you this: should we really be taking this console seriously if they’re about to go an entire cycle without naughty dog releasing a game?
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- dvrj101 1y ago> the new architecture is focused on more efficient running of the kinds of machine-learning-based neural networks so fake frames generation ?
- bigyabai 1y agoYes, duh. It's a console, resolution scaling is the #1 foremost tool in their arsenal for stabilizing the framerate. I can't think of a console game made in the past decade that doesn't "fake frames" at some part of the pipeline. I'll also go a step further - not every machine-learning pass is frame generation. Nvidia uses AI for DLAA, a form of DLSS that works with 100% input resolution as a denoiser/antialiasing combined pass. It's absolutely excellent if your GPU can keep up with the displayed content.
- wiseowise 1y agoHow about actually releasing games? GT7 and GOW Ragnarok are the only worthwhile exclusives of the current gen. This is hilariously bad for 5 year old console.
- shurikdima 1y agoThis. I would also add Returnal to this list but otherwise I agree, It's hard to believe it's been almost 5 years since the release of PS5 and there are still barely any games that look as good as The Last Of Us 2 or Red Dead Redemption 2 which were released on PS4
- Pulcinella 1y agoI would agree with this. A lot of PS5 games using UE5+ with all it's features run at sub 1080p30 (some times sub 720p30)upscaled to 1440p/4K and still look & run way, way worse that TLOU2/RDR2/Death Stranding 1/Horizon 1 on the PS4. Death Stranding 2, Horizon 2, and the Demon's Souls remake look and run far, far better (on a purely technical level) than any other PS5 game and they all use rasterized lighting.
- jayd16 1y agoRatchet and Clank is a good one too.
- dysoco 1y agoBut there are plenty of games for PS5, what does it matter to you if they're exclusive or not? There are no exclusive games for AMD and Nvidia and yet no one complains about that, they just choose whichever brand they prefer to game on and that's it.
- ErneX 1y agoDigital Foundry just released a video discussing this: https://youtu.be/Ru7dK_X5tnc https://youtu.be/Ru7dK_X5tnc
- sunjester 1y agoWhy? Hasn't it only been 5 years according to the public? Stop being greedy.
- wejick 1y agoFunny that I thought the biggest improvement of PS5 is actually crazy fast storage. No loading screen is really gamechanger. I would love to get xbox instant resume on Playstation. Graphic is nice but not number one.
- jesse__ 1y agoPretty sure they licensed a compression codec from RAD and implemented it in hardware, which is why storage is so fast on the PS5. Sounds like they're doing the same thing for GPU transfers now.
- wtallis 1y agoStorage on the PS5 isn't really fast. It's just not stupidly slow. At the time of release, the raw SSD speeds for the PS5 were comparable to the high-end consumer SSDs of the time, which Sony achieved by using a controller with more channels than usual so that they didn't have to source the latest NAND flash memory (and so that they could ship with only 0.75 TB capacity). The hardware compression support merely compensates for the PS5 having much less CPU power than a typical gaming desktop PC. For its price, the PS5 has better storage performance than you'd expect from a similarly-priced PC, but it's not particularly innovative and even gaming laptops have surpassed it. The most important impact by far of the PS5 adopting this storage architecture (and the Xbox Series X doing something similar) is that it gave game developers permission to make games that require SSD performance.
- jesse__ 1y agoSo, you're saying they built a novel storage architecture that competed with state-of-the-art consumer hardware, at a lower price point. Five years later, laptops are just catching up, and that at the same price point, it's faster than what you'd expect from a PC. The compression codec they licensed was built by some of the best programmers alive [0], and was later acquired by Epic [1] I dunno how you put those together and come up with "isn't really fast" or "not particularly innovative". Fast doesn't mean 'faster than anything else in existence'. Fast is relative to other existing solutions with similar resource constraints. [0] https://fgiesen.wordpress.com/about/ https://fgiesen.wordpress.com/about/ [1] https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/epic-acquires-rad-game-tools https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/epic-acquires-rad-...
- Sincere6066 1y ago"Uh oh, I don't like that sound of that..." clicks article "Project Amethyst is focused on going beyond traditional rasterization techniques that don't scale well when you try to "brute force that with raw power alone," Huynh said in the video. Instead, the new architecture is focused on more efficient running of the kinds of machine-learning-based neural networks behind AMD's FSR upscaling technology and Sony's similar PSSR system." "Yep..." Sigh.
- chrisjj 1y agoIndeed. It is a "rethink" only for a very small value of /think/.
- sergiotapia 1y agoGraphics could stand to get toned down. It sucks to wait 7 years for a sequel to your favorite game. There was a time where sequels came out while the games were still relevant. We are getting sequels 8 years or more apart for what? Better beard graphics? Beer bottles where the liquid reacts when you bump into it? Who cares! | Game | Release Year | |-------------------------------------------|--------------| | GTA III | 2001 | | GTA Vice City | 2002 | | GTA San Andreas | 2004 | | Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus | 2002 | | Sly 2: Band of Thieves | 2004 | | Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves | 2005 | | Infamous | 2009 | | Infamous 2 | 2011 | We are 5 full years into the PS5's lifetime. These are the only games that are exclusive to the console. | Game | Release Year | |-------------------------------------------|--------------| | Astro's Playroom | 2020 | | Demon's Souls | 2020 | | Destruction AllStars | 2021 | | Gran Turismo 7 | 2022 | | Horizon Call of the Mountain | 2023 | | Firewall Ultra | 2023 | | Astro Bot | 2024 | | Death Stranding 2: On the Beach | 2025 | | Ghost of Yōtei | 2025 |
- tanjtanjtanj 1y agoIt feels very weird to not include games like Ratchet & Clank, Returnal, and a few others just because they were later released on PC. Especially when Death Stranding 2 is here and also released on PC. Sony’s strategy is for almost every game to eventually be on PC as well so it’s not entirely a case of development slowing (although it has).
- t-3 1y agoI can't help but think that Sony and AMD would be better off developing a GPU-style PCI-card module that has all their DRM and compute and storage on the board, and then selling consoles that are just normal gaming PCs in a conveniently-sized branded case with a PS card installed. If the card was sold separately at $3-400 it would instantly take over a chunk of the PC gaming market and upgrades would be easier.
- LogicFailsMe 1y agoThere sure is a lot of visionary(tm) thinking out there right now about the future of gaming, But what strikes me is how few of those visionaries(tm) have ever actually developed and taken a game to market. Not entirely unlike how many AI academics who step functioned their compensation a decade ago by pivoting to the tech industry had no experience bringing an AI product to market, but they certainly felt free pontificate on how things are done. I eagerly await the shakeout due from the weakly efficient market as the future of gaming ends up looking like nothing anyone imagineered.
- bugfix 1y agoSo we're getting a new console just to play AI-upscaled PS4 and PS5 "remasters"... and I suspect it’ll probably come without any support for physical media. The PS5 will be my last console. There's no point anymore.
- musicale 1y agoNintendo is getting it right (maybe): focus on first-party exclusive games and, uh, a pile of indies and ports from the PS3 and PS4 eras. Come to think of it, Sony is also stuck in the PS4 era since PS5 pro is basically a PS4 pro that plays most of the same games but at 4K/60. (Though it does add a fast SSD and nice haptics on the DualSense controller.) But it's really about the games, and we haven't seen a lot of system seller exclusives on the PS5 that aren't on PS4, PC, or other consoles. (Though I'm partial to Astro-bot and also enjoyed timed exclusives like FF16 and FF7 Rebirth.) PS5 and Switch 2 are still great gaming consoles - PS5 is cheaper than many GPU cards, while Switch 2 competes favorably with Steam Deck as a handheld and hybrid game system.
- kristopherleads 1y agoI really dislike the focus on graphics here, but I think a lot of people are missing big chunk of the article that's focused on efficiency. If we can get high texture + throughput content like dual 4k streams but with 1080p bandwidth, we can get VR that isn't as janky. If we can get lower power consumption, we can get smaller (and cooler) form functions which means we might see a future where the Playstation Portal is the console itself. I'm about to get on a flight to Sweden, and I'd kill to have something like my Steam Deck but running way cooler, way more powerful, and less prone to render errors. I get the feeling Sony will definitely focus on graphics as that's been their play since the 90s, but my word if we get a monumental form factor shift and native VR support that feels closer to the promise on paper, that could be a game changer.
- tonis2 1y agoSoon real games will be 10 pixels, and everything else is upscaled
- Hobadee 1y agoI'm seriously concerned that the PS9 development is far behind schedule. I certainly won't be able to teleport it, and I doubt it will be as immersive as promised.
- asdaqopqkq 1y agoI wish devs would just make PS2 level graphics and let GenAI take care of the rest, the wait times for each AAA game is nuts.