6 ms·
The Digital Markets Act: time for a reset
- sexeriy237 1y ago"Regulatory burdens and uncertainty are delaying our launch of new products, like our latest AI features, by up to a year after they launch in the rest of the world." The AI features cause the same problems they are claiming the DMA creates...
- maldonad0 1y agoYes, time for a reset. A reset of all the influence foreign companies have on my country! It is many the times I have daydreamed of seizing their assets and pushing them out... Goodbye Apple, goodbye Google!
- crazygringo 1y agoSo, what, every country is going to have its own cell phone operating systems? Instead of two mobile OS's we'll have hundreds?
- bigyabai 1y agoIt's crazy talk. Who's got the time to standardize messaging and data for WWAN modems on mobile devices? It's not like any operating systems ever implemented userland emulation of Android or iOS APIs and delivered a roughly identical experience to customers. Way too unrealistic, we're talking about space age technology here. We should be happy that Google and Apple don't charge us more for all their hard work. If they leave there are no other phone manufacturers in the world, Europe would simply return to the dark ages.
- em-bee 1y agoalternatives exist. they are not successful because lack of scale makes them not profitable enough to sustain development. if google and apple went away, they would be able to reach the scale needed to make a profit an become successful.
- userbinator 1y agoHundreds of forks of Android, all having slightly different extensions but a common API, would be ideal.
- rolisz 1y agoNot hundreds, but a couple more options would be really nice.
- pabs3 1y agoThere are more than two mobile OS's, we just have to be allowed to run our choice of them on our choice of device, and the hardware vendors should be forced to not ship with a default OS.
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y agoIf the alternative is Google and Apple deciding which rules apply to them, yes?
- buyucu 1y agoThis is what open source is for.
- HPsquared 1y agoI just can't see it being allowed by Washington.
- danny_codes 1y agoYeah, the US might do something crazy in response like put up tariffs on allied democracies
- MBCook 1y agoI wasn’t aware they had veto power. I get they THINK they do. But I don’t think they do.
- piekvorst 1y agoWhy did I read this comment in Russian?
- number6 1y agoSize the means of computation?
- MBCook 1y agoOh of course Google is pushing this too. I thought Apple was dumb to push this, makes more sense as a multilateral thing. I’m sure the EU won’t take a dim view of this at all. “Senator, we’d like racketeering laws repealed. They’re making running our protection rackets much harder. How are we supposed to innovate for our customers if you keep making new kinds of threats illegal?”
- pluc 1y agoI mean, they did it for sports betting...
- jitl 1y agoThe issue with DMA is that the laws are very vague and appear to forbid basically any private API calls between products if your business is big. You basically need to turn every one of your systems into an AWS service; and then on top of that not favor your own system over those registered by competitors. This is supposed to level the playing field but making and maintaining public APIs like this is tons of work in terms of coordination and so stuff really does take a lot longer to build for EU to meet the requirements; or to confirm that it somehow doesn’t need to be a public API.
- thunderfork 1y ago[dead]
- gigel82 1y agoThat sounds wonderful, I wish it worked like that. Imagine Microsoft needing to fully document OneDrive integration points and APIs and make it possible for me to plug my NAS / ownCloud / NextCloud / whatever with the same level of integration.
- pizlonator 1y agoYeah this is exactly my impression of what makes the DMA suck for a company like Apple. It makes it easier to not offer functionality in Europe. Because to offer the functionality in Europe you have to do the extra work of making sure any competitor who could go crying to the euro officials can plausibly inject a competing thing with equal integration.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- NHQ 1y agoSection 230: time for a reset
- rs186 1y agoThe biggest corporations complaining? What a coincidence. Something says to me that DMA is working as intended.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 8bitsrule 1y agoThe EU should tell Goggle to go take a long walk off a short dock. >The DMA’s biggest challenge remains: How do we boost innovation and deliver cutting-edge products to Europe while navigating complex and untested new rules? Why should Europe want to cave to Goggle's desire to deepen its clawhold on Europe's market? To help it extend its monopoly deep into the rest of civilization?
- DangitBobby 1y agoOff topic but can we acknowledge how insane it is that Google gets its own TLD?
- HPsquared 1y agoYou too could have your own TLD.
- al_be_back 1y agoHuh - just made me wonder, why didn't Musk buy .X tld ? Far better than x.com Then again, what would've been the domain name, x.x ? oh boy.
- antonyh 1y agoNice idea but expressly prohibited by ICANN. Must be 3+ letters. "Applied-for gTLD strings in ASCII must be composed of three or more visually distinct characters. Two-character ASCII strings are not permitted, to avoid conflicting with current and future country-codes based on the ISO 3166-1 standard."
- fyrn_ 1y agoIf only the US had some kind if law to limit the power of a single company over markets a broad as "information services"
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tguvot 1y agohttps://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/global-support/faqs/faqs-en https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/global-support/faqs... https://newgtldprogram.icann.org/en https://newgtldprogram.icann.org/en
- depuebenas 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- neverkn0wsb357 1y agoThe fact that companies like Google are complaining (while pretending like they’re looking out for consumers - which is unsavory) is a great signal indicator that this is going to disrupt monopolistic / anti-consumer business practice's. Good.
- piekvorst 1y agoWhat about anti-producer government practices?
- csomar 1y agoYou know it can be both, right? Standing up to tech giants can be a good pretext to introduce new taxes, create new smaller monopolies who happen to be your friends, spy on the masses, etc. But it’s all cool, we are standing up for the tech feudalists.
- piekvorst 1y agoYou mean being both pro-consumer and pro-producer? Sure it can be both, provided we establish the principle uniting the two. Property rights is one. Altruism is another. The two would lead to totally different outcomes. Speaking of property rights, creating new smaller monopolies is in no way “pro-producer.” Nobody truly benefits by robbing the other, it’s as shortsighted “benefit” as it can be. We need long-term predictable policies that don’t criminalize what is, in fact, not criminal. Otherwise it can be both anti-producer and anti-consumer, too.
- PedroBatista 1y agoReset is the right word. Break-up these mega corps that naturally have become extractive to the point they themselves starting to rot. If "break-up" is too strong, call it a "reset".
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gyomu 1y agoIf we’re talking about a reset, then the EU should ban Google/Apple/Amazon/Huawei/Xiaomi/Meta/etc products and services in their entirety, and finance/incentivize local companies to provide replacements. As a EU citizen I don’t see why those companies should have the disproportionate amount of control and oversight in our daily lives they have today while our bureaucracies are stuck in a constant game of cat and mouse against them, as they have proven countless times they see EU regulation as hurdles to be worked around rather than fundamental rules to play by.
- piekvorst 1y ago[flagged]
- Daishiman 1y agoYou sure are really interested in this one particular topic for a new account...
- jjani 1y agoHaha, this does make me laugh a bit. They've not been doing antything illegal (they almost certainly have fwiw) because they've been the ones capturing regulations and massive influencing laws. Furthermore they've violated plenty of consumer protection laws in countries where those are strong, so the entire premise doesn't hold up.
- piekvorst 1y agoI meant property rights violations generally. The consumer agreed to something which they didn’t provide. If the consumer simply wasn’t served better than he could have, that may violate some non-objective law, but not the consumer’s property rights. Their violations is the same kind of persecution that minority group face, such as with gay marriages. The laws are written specifically to target them. Influencing the law can be quite different. Lobbying is legal, other kinds of peddling are not. If they exceeded their legal limits (or whatever, I’m not into it) and, in fact, took the role of an aggressor, that would be a problem and the government would have to sue them. Even in this case, destroying them should be the very last resort, not the norm.
- nxobject 1y agoThe position title of the author is the cherry on the top: "Senior Director, Competition".
- charcircuit 1y ago>Lower quality online services: People in the EU need up to 50% more searches to find what they need when they search for hotels, restaurants and things to buy. The EU is wasting their citizens time with this law. It should be reverted as the current version is hurting consumers.
- pornel 1y ago> How do we boost innovation and deliver cutting-edge products to Europe while navigating complex and untested new rules? Ask your lawyers? They can parkour through the most complex laws when you need European tax loopholes.
- MBCook 1y agoWhat if you just tried making products that don’t seem to violate the rules on their face? It’s not like the DMA outlaws software. It deals with certain practices, and makes certain business models pretty untenable. But it doesn’t just ban everything.
- throwaway0223 1y agoIt's interesting to see the number of folks apparently in favor of DMA and the strict regulatory environment in EU. Genuinely curious: what is the concrete benefit for users (and does it offset the negatives)? And does this foster a healthy and thriving environment for innovation? In my liberal view it sounds awful for users and entrepreneurs alike. Wondering what are the arguments in favor (other than "apple/google = bad"). E.g. Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
- mzajc 1y agoJust a day ago, we've had Google's idea of "useful results" frontpaged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366566. Between this, the malicious restrictions being added to Android, and countless other things, I'm genuinely surprised anyone still believes them to be acting in users' best interests.
- throwaway0223 1y agoJust a day ago, we've had Google's idea of "useful results" frontpaged: I'm not following. How does DMA help with this?
- Krssst 1y agoI guess it won't but it shows they absolutely don't care about pertinence of search results anymore, so their argument that DMA will make for worse search results does not hold much value when they are already worsening their search results out of their own volition. (those are ads but they take the entire page and are easily confused for results, so as a standard-issue user the difference between ads and search results is vague. It would be improved by reverting to the previous UI of ads where they were shown quite differently)
- 1y ago
- ChrisArchitect 1y agoRelated: Apple says it may stop shipping to the EU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515
- MBCook 1y agoI have a hard time seeing them doing that. Seems like it would be too big a hit to the stock price. However, on the other side, if the EU does manage to drive Apple or Google out I wonder if that would cause them real problems from citizens. Regulations can certainly be nice but at a certain point people may get very annoyed by the results to the point of wanting them removed, even if they’re doing a good job at exactly what they were designed for. Simply because they’re inconveniencing people through the fault of the company making the device. If you were to run a poll what percent of people would be willing to just give up the smartphone brand they like for something that isn’t android or iOS for the sake of DMA enforcement? The drug maybe too strong to resist.
- thewebguyd 1y ago> for something that isn’t android or iOS Yeah, the problem is - what is that? It doesn't exist because the duopoloy has successfully shut out all other potential entrants. HarmanyOS maybe? So the EU just exchanges being dependent on US tech for Chinese tech? I think something does need to be done, this duopoly is clearly abusive at this point, but we need to some how incentivize development of another, preferably open source, option and then protect it.
- userbinator 1y agoon Android by forcing us to remove our legitimate safeguards that protect users’ security and safety All you want is complete control, as evidenced by your intention to lock down devices against their actual owners. Google is effectively an unelected global government at this point. Piss off!
- crowbahr 1y agoBut also the EU wants to add chat control so they can read all your encrypted messages so maybe you _dont_ want them to have a say in how Android safeguards work?
- reorder9695 1y agoI'm happy for the EU to decide I control what software's on my phone and where I got it from, these are 2 separate issues
- jech 1y agoThe EU is not a single person. There are some people among the EU elites who fight for an open Internet, and some who want to control the Internet. They are not the same people.
- dang 1y agoRecent and related - others? Apple Demands EU Repeal the Digital Markets Act - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45380690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45380690 - Sept 2025 (64 comments) Apple says it may stop shipping to the EU - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 - Sept 2025 (145 comments) The Digital Markets Act's Impacts on EU Users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368848 - Sept 2025 (3 comments)
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y agoIts almost like Google and Apple are colluding to undermine legitimate laws to protect their profits. Guess they feel emboldened by having a raving lunatic in the White House, willing to attack allies (or whats left of that friendship) to protect the interests of private companies.
- woggy 1y agoGoogle looking out for the consumer. Yea, right.
- OutOfHere 1y agoThis straight-up is propaganda by Google in its interest, altogether opposing the consumer's interest.
- ddmma 1y agoWhy we cannot have better search
- kmeisthax 1y ago[dead]
- jauntywundrkind 1y agoEveryone involved with this should be fired, for betraying Google and Android as a maybe not quite so incredibly awful soulless ghastly thief upon human potential. Your campaign should 100% be against abuse of powers against the sickness of Apple's far more high castle walls garden trapping everyone in, but your most useless cad people have convinced you to try to disinform and lie to society, to tell us freedom comes only in bondage and in lack of controls. Fire these people and in a better world, chain them to the wall as traitors to human potential. I can not fucking believe Google is carrying water for the Apple abomination like this.
- pabs3 1y ago> users can download apps from other sources (known as “sideloading”) Isn't it Google killing sideloading, not the DMA?
- marak830 1y agoYeah, I noticed that comment too. Pretty rich and really makes me question the whole thing even more than I was originally.
- NekkoDroid 1y agoIIRC its technically not killing sideloading, but enforcing a required signature where you need to go through google so that the software can be sideloaded... So they can say that they aren't technically killing sideloading :)
- pabs3 1y agoClose enough.
- veeti 1y ago> Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information. Well, it doesn't seem to be true because a quick search right now shows hotel rates and flights from the hotel or airline's own site and various aggregators. Is Google breaking the law or what am I missing?
- buyucu 1y agoI know Digital Markets Act is good for the world when I see Google and Apple complaining about it.
- camgunz 1y agoMan what bullshit. Here's the owner (and 4th author of the paper) [0] of the consultancy that authored the paper [1] they reference. She (almost certainly) has Meta stock! [0]: https://www.iicom.org/profile/dr-eliana-garces/ https://www.iicom.org/profile/dr-eliana-garces/ [1]: https://www.dmcforum.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/120625-FINAL-CCIA-DMA-Report-1.pdf https://www.dmcforum.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/120625-F... Break these companies the fuck up.
- Havoc 1y agoThe way big tech is howling about this makes me think it’s probably a good idea
- seec 1y agoOh, now Google is joining Apple in the complaining. Because you know, they are poor little struggle businesses that really can't adapt fast enough. I find Google more useful than Apple (they provide more stuff for the price to pay, which is bit of "privacy" that doesn't matter that much since Ads will exist no matter what) and they have been generally more open; but they winning is really sad. They are at a size where basically nobody can meaningfully compete, because nobody gets to drain billions of dollars for being the most used entry point to the web. I think the rules are working and alternatives are already starting to develop for various things, which is basically why they are complaining. So, they can fuck off.
- depuebenas 1y ago[dead]
- 7bit 1y ago> Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information. That's exactly what "leveling the playing field" means, which the Author also acknowledged in his introduction. By forcing Google to link to intermediaries, it takes away the power and monopoly of Google and give competitors a chance. This post is nothing but lobbying for Google and against the DMA with shady and unscrupulous arguments.
- 7bit 1y ago> We remain concerned that these changes to Search are a result of the DMA prioritizing the commercial interests of a small set of intermediary sites — who often shout the loudest in these debates — over the ability of most businesses to sell directly to their customers. Say Google ... of all people. I would be ashamed working for a company and writing this shit. Ashamed of myself!
- like_any_other 1y ago> The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This sounds incredibly suspicious - what is Google omitting here? I've never heard of the DMA forbidding direct results.
- solarkraft 1y agoThe companies affected whining about is a sign that it may actually have some effect. Remember: New laws are made because someone has been acting in ways society agrees they shouldn’t have been and this DEFINITELY applies to big tech companies. It’s a testament to how bad your behavior must have been if we go through all the trouble to come up with a law to forbid it.
- frizlab 1y agoAnd by society you mean other biggish companies that feel they cannot compete, right? (Whether they can actually compete is true or not, it probably is, but my point is it’s not the general citizen lambda that have these beefs.)
- thrance 1y agoBoohoo, poor Google. And won't somebody think of the consumers? This is honestly shameless. How I wish for a world rid of these insufferable American monopolies.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y agoI'm American and if modern life was dictated by 5 foreign companies I'd be pissed! Seems like all they're trying to do is stand up to foreign megacorps since American antitrust has been a farce.
- zigzag312 1y ago> Time for a reset > We have proactively made many changes to our products to comply with the Google Play Store ToS, including... But we and other companies still face considerable uncertainty and unpredictability... Fixed :P
- a456463 1y agoControlling what we do with our own devices that we paid for and siphoning off all that data nonstop for profit? Piss off google! And ditto for Apple and Meta! Just siphoning off our tax dollars of road, electricity, water to turn around and sell our attention to the highest bidder to control us again.