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Apple Demands EU Repeal the Digital Markets Act
- fishgoesblub 1y agoI can't help but think: "Carjackers demand repeal of Anti-Carjacking law".
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tjpnz 1y agoApple has no such problems complying with similar laws in other markets - most notably China.
- nozzlegear 1y agoThey likely do, but China's not exactly renowned for welcoming the input or feedback of western corporations when it comes to their laws and policies.
- gnabgib 1y agoDiscussion (74 points, 11 hours ago, 131 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515
- theturtle 1y agoIs there an "or else?" Apple can't afford to just pack up and leave a market larger than the USA. While Apple has no particular interest in or loyalty to the past, without the EU Apple wouldn't have lived into this century.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- betaby 1y ago> "or else?" "Or else" is already happening. MacOS and IOS have fewer features in EU than USA. IPhone screen mirroring is not available in EU for example. All regulations have cost and legal risks. At some point it may not worth it financially.
- sigilis 1y ago“Do this or else we’ll make our products less attractive by not making an effort to comply with your law” does not seem like a really compelling “or else”. iPhone mirroring was cute when I first tried it, but now when I click on a notification on my laptop and it tries to open the mirroring application I am annoyed. It’s the tiniest version of my phone and takes a while to come up, if it doesn’t fail for some reason. I should turn it off. The other features they mention aren’t very compelling. I’m in the Netherlands now with a US Apple account so I can use them, but don’t care to.
- heavyset_go 1y agoThese are the same companies that go out of their way to appease the demands of the CCP so they have access to the Chinese market. It's a bit wild to suggest the mildest of regulation is going to make abandoning a market of 700m people "worth it" lol
- abduhl 1y agoApple has a vested interest in maintaining a presence in the Chinese market because that is where a large portion of its supply chain exists. It isn’t appeasing the CCP because Chinese users, it is because of Chinese manufacturers.
- SpicyLemonZest 1y agoThe Chinese government does not ask for public input on their regulatory decisions, and I’m sure Apple would have similar comments if they did. They can’t be happy the iPhone Air is delayed in China.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
- tjpnz 1y agoEU is #2 (behind the US) in terms of net sales accounting for 26% in 2024. There is no "or else".
- theodric 1y agoI would consider it incredibly unlikely to happen, but based on how much money they're banking, I'd say Apple could probably afford to live without the EU.
- tjpnz 1y agoNot with the declines they're seeing in China.
- hiatus 1y agoFor how long? Or at least, how long after they lose their second largest consumer market do shareholders demand a shakeup of leadership?
- akmarinov 1y agoThat’ll go over well with investors. “Hey, we’ve decided to cut 25% of our revenue” The stock price would love it
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y agoI would think profits are more important than sales. >...there’s evidence to believe the regulation is designed to extract from companies, rather than protect consumers: as we’ll see, the bloc often imposes massive, clearly premeditated fines immediately after compliance deadlines... >... >The fines permitted under both regulations are unprecedented; the DSA permits fines of up to 6% of a company’s global annual revenue, while the DMA permits fines of up to 10% of a company’s global annual revenue, and an egregious 20% for repeat offenses. https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-tech-companies https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-te... The EU can write itself a check for up to 26% of Apple's annual revenue (6% + 20%). Coincidentally, that's the same as your 26% number for Apple net sales from the EU. But if Apple gets fined 26%, that represents a huge loss of capital since they still have to pay for COGS, pay taxes, pay employee salaries, and so forth.
- tiahura 1y agoOr else they look to the guy they gave the gold disc to reciprocate against EU crown jewels. LVMH looks like a big target to me.
- skybrian 1y agoAccording to the Guardian article: > the company could stop shipping some products and services to the 27-country bloc. But not all products of course.
- raw_anon_1111 1y agoIf nothing else this shows the lack of leadership from Cook. Steve Jobs signed his name to corporate letters that appeared on the front page like “Thoughts on Flash” and “Thoughts on Music”
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y agoThe guy who took the company to a multi-trillion dollar market cap has no leadership skills because he didn't write you an autographed philosophical treatise?
- raw_anon_1111 1y agoSo in that case, I am sure you agree with Ballmer’s leadership at Microsoft? Microsoft missed mobile under Ballmer. Apple is missing both AI and whatever becomes of AR. Isn’t kind of sad that Meta is pushing the envelope on AR more than Apple?
- frollogaston 1y agoAR is kinda useless
- raw_anon_1111 1y ago“No wireless. Less space than the Nomad. Lame”.
- frollogaston 1y agoWhatever AR product Facebook is selling, it's not the next iPod. MP3 players had a use, iPod was the coolest one.
- raw_anon_1111 1y agoThis generation maybe not. It may not even be Meta. But Apple thinks it’s a product category worth pursuing. They just did it badly
- greyadept 1y agoI don’t like that Apple feels emboldened to demand that laws be repealed. I don’t recall if Apple has done this in the past but it’s a shift in tone that makes me uncomfortable.
- crossroadsguy 1y agoIt’s about who blinks first — or at least that’s what Apple thinks. Just keep in perspective at what acute angle Apple bends in China. It’ll be a shame if EU chooses to blink.
- tiahura 1y agoYou can only shake someone down so many times before they say no mas. There have been hints from the US administration that they recognized the DMA as something to be addressed. I'd imagine it was a topic of conversation when Cook gave Trump the gold statue.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y agoFor context, here's some background on why US companies view the DMA as a shakedown: https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-tech-companies https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-te...
- immibis 1y agoTLDR: because it's a regulation they have to follow and regulations are shakedowns (according to those who are regulated)
- SpicyLemonZest 1y agoI think you’re inferring a tone from the headline that isn’t actually present in Apple’s statement. They’re not demanding anything, they just think it would be a good idea.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y agoThe actual words from Apple quoted in the article: >The DMA should be repealed while a more appropriate fit for purpose legislative instrument is put in place... Despite our concerns with the DMA, teams across Apple are spending thousands of hours to bring new features to the European Union while meeting the law’s requirements. But it’s become clear that we can’t solve every problem the DMA creates. The headline could just have easily said "Apple Requests" or "Apple Suggests". I doubt it would make waves if Apple expressed the same opinion about some US legislation. Is Apple allowed to have an opinion about legislation in other countries where it operates?
- MattDamonSpace 1y ago[flagged]
- cadamsdotcom 1y agoHow far the Apple has fallen from the tree.
- tomr75 1y agojust reduce the services you provide Europeans, let the Europeans vote out these people
- frollogaston 1y agoHow did they view GDPR over there in hindsight? All that really did was nag everyone about cookies forever after.
- jemmyw 1y agoThe cookie stuff was separate to the GDPR wasn't it? Pretty sure it came in before.
- frollogaston 1y agoIt was soon after. It's a requirement of GDPR to get permission for certain kinds of cookies, and seemingly every website either falls under non-exempt or can't afford to prove they're exempt.
- kalleboo 1y agoThe original ePrivacy Directive that created the cookie banners is from 2003, and EU users have been seeing cookie banners since then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive#Cookies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive#Cookies The GDPR is what really gave it enforcement teeth though and that's when it really exploded and made the banners more intrusive and adopted by non-EU-native websites that weren't based in but still did business inside the EU.
- general1465 1y agoWhich will have unintended consequences, like falling behind competitors, who will use it against Apple as a leverage and slowly push it from European market, which is 26% of Apple's revenue. Average European is like average American, they are not following these political and corporational dramas, but they can tell that i.e. Samsung has features, while Apple is stale.
- skybrian 1y agoApparently this was in "a routine call for feedback on the Digital Markets Act." Can anyone link to it?
- Jon_Lowtek 1y agoConsultation documents and published feedback: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/14831-Review-of-the-Digital-Markets-Act_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... The documents link the DMA page on the EC website: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/consultation-first-review-digital-markets-act_en https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/consultation-first-... Interestingly there is no published filing by Apple, yet, and the consultation is closed for two days. Maybe they filed late and publishing the feedback takes time, due to the EC reading it before putting it on their website. Or quite possibly Apple did not actually file anything as part of the official process and is instead publishing their opinion on their blog.
- furyofantares 1y ago> “The DMA should be repealed while a more appropriate fit for purpose legislative instrument is put in place,” the iPhone maker said in its response to a routine call for feedback on the Digital Markets Act. How is this "Apple demands EU repeal the Digital Markets Act" ?
- isodev 1y agoIt’s “Yet again, Apple misses a DMA feedback opportunity to peddle PR”.
- evertedsphere 1y agoWas this coordinated with Google's statement? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45381013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45381013
- wetpaws 1y ago[dead]
- ajdude 1y ago> “The DMA should be repealed while a more appropriate fit for purpose legislative instrument is put in place” > “Despite our concerns with the DMA, teams across Apple are spending thousands of hours to bring new features to the European Union while meeting the law’s requirements. But it’s become clear that we can’t solve every problem the DMA creates,” the company said. The title of this article seems like sensationalized Clickbait, and I expect better from arstechnica.
- frollogaston 1y agoI don't
- matheusmoreira 1y ago> teams across Apple are spending thousands of hours to bring new features to the European Union while meeting the law’s requirements Do they really expect us to feel sorry for this trillion dollar corporation...? > it’s become clear that we can’t solve every problem the DMA creates Then pull out of the european market and eat the loss!
- threatofrain 1y agoWhy not stay in the market and pass on the costs to the customer?
- honeybadger1 1y agoarstechnica lost me as a reader about 8 years ago. it's like reading business insider with a hilariously liberal comment section.
- croes 1y agoIs it? Apple say it may stopping shipping to the EU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 Google say The Digital Markets Act: time for a reset https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45381013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45381013
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- 8bitsrule 1y agoAs a US citizen, it'd be great to see the EU create its own digital economy, free itself of US hardware and software hegemony, and foster an environment for its denizens to out-create and revitalize the moribund state of the industry and the net. If there's a lack of resources, talent, or potential upsides standing in the way, I don't see it. As for Apple, WTF gives a US company any right to demand anything from Europe? Chutzpa?
- general1465 1y ago> As for Apple, WTF gives a US company any right to demand anything from Europe? Chutzpa? I am also finding it bizarre, if there would be a European company in US ignoring US laws and wanting to repeal them for something more European, whole federal government would be screaming bloody murder.
- ChrisArchitect 1y ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515