12 ms·
EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections
- blurbleblurble 1y agoThis is absolutely outrageous
- avalys 1y agoSomeone get RFK Jr. over there.
- jfengel 1y agoWouldn't it be nice if the various cranks could at least slow each other down a bit? Not how that works, sadly.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- brookst 1y agoHe’s pro disease, and this will increase disease. Can’t see him doing anything but cheerleading here.
- jtms 1y agosincerely hope this is sarcasm
- odie5533 1y agoForever chemicals are conspiracy-adjacent. I would think he'd be for getting rid of them.
- wood_spirit 1y agoIn Sweden a local village near an airbase has been struggling with the long term effects of the PFAS from the fire fighting foam used in exercises. Although the connection to the awful health outcomes seems established I don’t think they are getting compensation.
- The28thDuck 1y agoThe equivalent in the US is Vint Hill Farms, Virginia. Cold War CIA base used as a listening post primarily, but also to test things like fire suppression and rumored to be a home of Agent Orange. It was an EPA Superfund site (aka so horribly polluted that they needed to do something about it) decided to do nothing and then build a ton of home on and around the heavily contaminated area. I don’t have data but anecdotally cancers here are insanely high in prevalence.
- lelandfe 1y agoFrom the UK, the island of Jersey: https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/news/focus-government-legally-bound-help-pfos-maker-fight-claims/ https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/news/focus-government-legal... 3M lied about the effects of PFAS and firefighting foam polluted their drinking supply. But the terms of the agreement forces the government to defend 3M.
- he0001 1y agoDoes anyone know why this is done? What is the reasoning here? Is this defendable in any way?
- jfengel 1y ago[flagged]
- Apreche 1y ago[flagged]
- da_chicken 1y agoAlso known as the, "I got mine. F*** you." philosophy. Maximize exploitation in the short run because by the time the long run comes around, they'll already be dead. It doesn't speak well of their feelings about their own children, but, well, there isn't a lot speaking that well of them in general.
- throw0101a 1y ago> As for people getting sick and dying, they either don’t care, or they want people to get sick and die. Healthcare providers and insurance companies are corporations too: you can get rich by treating more people.
- catlifeonmars 1y agoWrt to insurance companies: You can get rich by insuring more people. Treatment is not profitable.
- throwawaygmbno 1y agoAn insurance company CEO was famously shot in broad day light just before he went into a meeting to celebrate his accomplishment of denying people healthcare for his company's profits. Nobody felt bad except other CEOs and the people they directly pay because everyone has a story of the insurance company putting profit over people. They did not get rich by treating more people.
- untrimmed 1y agoSo the Environmental Protection Agency is now asking the courts to help them... not protect us?
- lelandfe 1y agoZeldin in March[0], announcing climate change rule rollbacks: > "We are driving a dagger straight into the heart of the climate change religion to drive down cost of living for American families, unleash American energy, bring auto jobs back to the U.S. and more" Does any of that list look like the goals of an Environmental Protection Agency? [0] https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-launches-biggest-deregulatory-action-us-history https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-launches-biggest-deregu...
- cryptonector 1y agoNo. EPA merely concedes that the process used to establish the new rules was not lawful. TFA implies that EPA means to restart the rulemaking process and -presumably- make roughly the same rules as before.
- aaviator42 1y agoCountless lives over the next decades are going to be lost due to decisions being made by this administration. Deaths and illnesses that otherwise would have prevented using existing frameworks and systems had they not been destroyed.
- thrance 1y agoThis is a form of political violence.
- the__alchemist 1y agoI don't understand why the left puts up with it. They are too easily distracted by hot-button issues. These are some of the most important issues facing the present and future of our civilization and biosphere. I wish I had a solution, or knew the step to take. I suspect one of the root causes is the narrative, e.g. from news agencies, is being controlled by the propagators of the problem.
- Filligree 1y agoWhat do you propose they do?
- the__alchemist 1y agoI would love to have an answer to your question! Edit: Here's a start: Be more critical of the news. Content a bit; the scope of topics that are discussed more importantly.
- tombert 1y agoBeing critical of the news is good, but I don't think we want the lefty equivalent of the "Do Your Own Research" conspiracy crowd. The problem with undermining trust in the news media is that people will just replace that with blind trust with something else, and we have no way of really knowing if that something else will be worse. This is what happened with conservatives and led to the rise of Infowars.
- mtoner23 1y agoNice job everybody. Totally owned the libs with this one
- vincnetas 1y agoVeritasium had video explaining about PFAS and environment protections that were needed to keep people/animals from being sick. Somewhere around minute 23 in video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoMinute Earth has one that’s more concise: https://youtu.be/H3aFzQdWQTg https://youtu.be/H3aFzQdWQTg
- contrarian1234 1y agoWhat a muddled video For the first half he seems to constantly mix up C8 and Teflon. After a long section explaining that C8 is some carrier molecule used to make Teflon - he then explain C8 is used in factories and kills cows. But it's not clear C8 is anywhere other than the factory and the town around it They then extrapolate from two chemical (C8 and C6) to just anything that remotely similar (PFAS) Later they walk it back and say it's only a few chemicals. Actually your Teflon pan is safe. But then say thing "Blah blah was used to make waterproof..." is it in the final product? or is it part of the chemical procedure to make the product? Is the problem the final consumer goods? Or is the problem the chemical manufacturing? (and subsequent dumping in the environment) Is this residue from after making the Teflon-like material? The last parts I couldn't follow at all b/c it was a acronym soup of a ton of chemicals that aren't really explained. At this point I'd lost all faith in the presenters impartiality. Seems like he's just trying to stoke outrage for engagement (the central point may still be right!)
- jackmottatx 1y ago[dead]
- ganyu 1y agoPFAS is short for 'Per- and poly- FluoroAlkyl Substances'. The Teflon that's used on your pans, which are 'poly-' materials, comes in extra long chains (hundreds of thousands of molecules). Most of its chemical bonds are hidden behind the extremely reactive Fluoride atoms (so if Fluoride is bonded onto that position, it's hard to take it off) and are extremely inert, so they don't interfere with typical biological reactions, thus are perfectly safe. C8 is known as PFOA (perfluorooctanoic acid). Per for its chained molecule shape (no carbon side chains), 'fluoro' for the F part, 'octanoic' for the 8 carbon atoms, and 'acid' for its chemical property. Unlike Teflon: - C8 has a really small molecular mass, making it easier to flow around your body participating in all kinds of biological operations; - It is an acid (having the carboxylic '-COOH' group) and can pretend to be all kinds of acids and actively take part in reactions. Once they start to get inside, the consequences can be unpredictable and devastating. - All other atoms on C8 except for the last -COOH group are covered by fluoride atoms. This means that C8 is not biodegradable (no enzyme can break apart the C-F covalent bond since it's bond energy is really too high), and when it gets into the environment, it stays that way. C6 has a highly similar chemical property akin to C8 (it's a carboxylic acid, and has all atoms covered by fluoride), so is equally harmful.
- tombert 1y agoDear god. Why is this administration actively trying to fuck everything up? Like, how does it hurt anyone to require companies to, you know, not fucking poison us?
- sedawkgrep 1y agoIf you view all this through the lens of the goal of administration being to weaken the US both internally and as a world power, it all comes much more clearly into focus. Then it can be seen as no longer a disparate collection of seemingly random political, social, and economic moves, but rather as a directed, intentional movement.
- tombert 1y agoStill kind of baffles me that people voted for this, ostensibly to somehow lower grocery price by raising tariffs. Or, you know, they actually had really racist reasons and are using the grocery prices thing as an excuse. Who's to say?
- sedawkgrep 1y agoI think it's much bigger than racism. Take a look at the administration's first term and all the involvement and ties (financial, political, etc.) there are to Russia (and Russian-related objectives like Ukraine). It sounds bonkers, but the more you dig in and see how closely tied the relationships have been, and then see how totally soft Trump has been towards Putin/Russia - including direct actions towards Ukraine like removing the long-term diplomats, stopping weapons sales and aid, and recently killing USAID (whose #1 beneficiary was Ukraine) - it all coalesces into a single coherent view. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates...
- tombert 1y agoI have no doubt that the administration's motivation are weird and Russia-oriented. I was referring to the voters. I think a lot of the voters claimed grocery prices were the reason, but a lot of them really wanted to get rid of Mexicans. Trump used a lot of racist rhetoric during all three of his campaigns. The fact that conservatives seem unwilling to condemn the president and ICE for detaining naturalized citizens indicates this to me.
- wateralien 1y agoIs protecting people socialism? Do they want people to be free enough to do their own water testing? "Make up their own minds?"
- rajup 1y agoDo RO filters eliminate these chemicals?
- llm_nerd 1y agoThey do, but the vast majority of fluids the average person consumes comes in products made elsewhere, along with restaurants, etc. So you can RO your home water, but unless you don't eat anything made elsewhere, water your own crops, etc, you need comprehensive protections to avoid them.
- Havoc 1y agoBit of research suggests even counter top filters help, though with very wide range of opinions as to how much it helps and which PFAS it does work against (there are thousands) https://www.epa.gov/water-research/identifying-drinking-water-filters-certified-reduce-pfas https://www.epa.gov/water-research/identifying-drinking-wate...
- estebarb 1y agoI understand that these dumb decisions are mostly profit motivated. But nobody stops to think that the reaction abroad may be: do not eat anything produced at USA?
- sedawkgrep 1y agoIf you view all this through the lens of the goal of administration being to weaken the US both internally and as a world power, it all comes much more clearly into focus. Then it can be seen as no longer a disparate collection of seemingly random political, social, and economic moves, but rather as a directed, intentional movement.
- cluckindan 1y agoThat is already a prevailing opinion
- Insanity 1y agoIn EU we by and large don’t eat what America produces though. The same products like Doritos etc will have different ingredients in EU compared to US. US typically gets the cheaper and worse option (less safe). Same for American coke w/ Cane Sugar instead of actual sugar. Americans will regularly consume chemicals that are potentially carcinogenic and banned in EU. EDIT: I meant high fructose corn syrup, not cane sugar. My bad!
- PartiallyTyped 1y agoDoritos even have different ingredients between EU countries. I have tested this in Denmark, Poland, Cyprus, Ireland and Germany.
- ReptileMan 1y agoThat is mostly because the same brand made for Eastern europe tastes like shit compared to the stuff for western. Worst offenders are nutella and coca cola. but there are many others.
- Atlas667 1y agoWhen people en masse remember what capitalist policies do
- preisschild 1y agoIt would actually be good if this Administration would enact capitalist free trade policies, because they often lead to more growth and better quality of life for everyone. Many of this administration's policies are more like Maoism
- Atlas667 1y agoThis is a such a false dichotomy, mate. The capitalists see PFAS policies as anti-free-trade because it imposes "artificial" limits on production. They see PFAS policies as "big govt overreach". And that if consumers don't want PFAS they should vote with their dollars to remove it. This is their pro-capitalist justification for de-regulation. And what you're doing is you want to conflate their money making policies, such as removing PFAS protections, with the exact opposite of what it is. You're confusing it with anti-capitalist policies when it is, in fact, benefiting plastic producers and was probably recommended by plastic producers and manufacturers in the first place. Needless to say it cannot be both. This is not maoism, THIS is capitalism. You drank the kool-aid on anti-govt thought and now you think the government is anti-capitalist when the capitalists hold almost a total monopoly on government functions and officials and have always had, since they control most of the nations wealth and production and can employ it to serve them. The capitalists control the government outright. To further elucidate your position: the fact is you hate free trade policies because they put you and your loved ones in danger, but you have been convinced that they are, theoretically, better for all of us. That is because in pro capitalist theory/propaganda anything that helps them is seen as benefiting the population because of two things: 1. Capitalist see themselves as part of the population (even though they are the minority). 2. They conflate the "invisible hand" metaphor with literal evolution without even giving a forethought to how these dynamics play out. Especially in a monopolized environment. They espouse these ideas through their think tanks and media outlets because it benefits them. They teach this double-think through total hate of govt policies because they see many govt policies as hindering them. Think about how our broke asses can influence government. Very slim pickings.... Now think about how a billionaire can influence government. Capitalists have always controlled government.
- Ozarkian 1y agoThe State of California is moving in the exact opposite direction: banning these things completely. https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/california-lawmakers-propose-ban-on-nonstick-cookware-5913925 https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/california-lawmakers-propos...
- supportengineer 1y agoI am suddenly quite bullish on California real estate. The “good people” will flock from all around the world so that they can be in one place with the other “good people”. It’s about shared values. California will be the last refuge for people around the world who have these shared values.
- wiether 1y ago> for people around the world who have these shared values The US of A are not "the World". There are countless places around the World that make California look like a conservatism heaven.
- Havoc 1y agoI assure you there are places in the world with good people and shared values outside of one state in one particular country. Pretty wild comment frankly...
- aaronblohowiak 1y agoWhat about EU
- DaSHacka 1y ago> California will be the last refuge for people around the world who have these shared values. You'll be glad to hear it already is! Now please stick to your containment zone, and NEVER leave. We have enough of your ilk that have fled to neighboring states already.
- softwaredoug 1y agoWe’re going to end with a strong red/blue state divide on regulatory frameworks. I wonder if the vaccine guideline coalitions point to emerging regulatory consistency among blue states on this as well.
- deadbabe 1y agoHow can you measure the amount of PFAS in your body?
- dvrj101 1y agocan you, do your own homework like just a google search ?
- sgnelson 1y agoThis country is so fucked. Thanks everyone who voted for trump. I truly hope your stock gains and lower taxes were worth it.
- Gienoz100 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- csours 1y agoMAHA! The US admin is 5 special interest groups in a trench coat. === To be clear, some of the Make America Healthy Again goals are quite reasonable to me. I wish they had started with those.
- giantg2 1y agoAt this point we should just create programs to promote RO filtration at home. If it's not lead then it's PFAS or some other thing. Then we have the issues with the chlorine and chloramine byproducts inhernet even in properly treated water - stuff that we already know as possible, probable, or known carcinogens.
- BoredPositron 1y agoSounds like a band-aid solution for bad governance.
- NewJazz 1y agoNo, it is not a band aid, it is the gold standard for water filtration. And not all water issues stem from bad governance. Sometimes there is just unwanted minerals in the water for natural reasons.
- BoredPositron 1y agoI can't follow why would you opt for filtration in individual homes?
- giantg2 1y agoTo eliminate the distribution network risks.
- dylan604 1y agoBecause I have no say in the plumbing used to get the water from the source to my home. Some of that infrastructure is older than I am. Whole home RO systems would still possibly flow through plumbing I wouldn't be happy with. Undersink RO systems at the primary place providing water that I ingest seems like the best place for me knowing the details about the plumbing from this new source.
- saulpw 1y ago
- trimethylpurine 1y agoFor those looking for the rest / other side of the story: the Trump EPA is actually the same EPA that established these PFAS rules to begin with. Municipal water associations have pushed back because they need more time to comply with some of the rules. EPA is responding to that, still adding additional requirements, but giving more time to comply with others. https://www.awwa.org/AWWA-Articles/epa-announces-changes-to-pfas-drinking-water-standard/ https://www.awwa.org/AWWA-Articles/epa-announces-changes-to-...
- gigatexal 1y agoThis administration can’t end soon enough.
- bethekidyouwant 1y agoEver since you were born, the factory bagging the food you eat have been lubricated with PFAS. Also perhaps youve seen the HDPE label on plastic food containers? That’s fluorinated. Basically everything is and always has been. It’s only recently there’s been a move to say hey this is probably bad for us. We can stop. But it’s expensive and there’s no good alternative so things are just going back to the way they always were.
- sunsetSamurai 1y agoElections have consequences, many people say both sides are the same, but there's one side that constantly does things like this, on top of giving tax cuts to rich people that need it the least. Please go vote on 2028 if you don't want more of this.
- mandeepj 1y agoLet’s set our eyes on 2026 first, so that we can end this madness sooner.
- scarface_74 1y agoWhere we set our eyes don’t matter. The US electorate has shown we care more about “owning the libs”, “anti-woke” and what bathroom people use than our own health and welfare. Absolutely no one who voted for this mess went in blind.
- tomrod 1y agoThey absolutely did, because many listen to the absokutely rank propaganda the right puts out and seek no real sources of information.
- scarface_74 1y agoYou didn’t need “sources of information”. Trump was in office for four years before he was re-elected. It’s copium to think that people aré ignorant when in actuality, they are actively hostile to minorities, non straight, the college educated and non Christians. They would rather feel the fallout of Republican policies as long as it doesn’t help or actively hurts people not like them. In my former home state GA, the Republican governor spent years and tens of millions of dollars trying to get the Hyundai plant to GA that would have created 8500 jobs directly and no telling how many indirect jobs. ICE invaded the plant and the opportunity is now lost potentially. The governor still can’t bring himself to criticize the President and the Republicans in GA are cheering the raid. The engineers from Korea were training Americans.
- croes 1y agoSo much for MAHA
- bvan 1y agoWould have been better titled “EPA politicized leadership seeks to…”. I’m sure the actual workforce at the EPA doesn’t appreciate its hard work being trashed by the current leadership taking its orders from Trump and his minions.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoThis is what I find so interesting about the MAHA "movement". Kennedy is making some good (and many bad) points about food and nutrition. But then he is part of an administration that promotes pollution and wants to remove safeguards against chemicals that harm people. I have no idea how this is supposed to fit together but in today's political climate it's not necessary for things to make sense.
- BlackjackCF 1y agoIt’s hard to take Kennedy and the MAHA movement seriously about food and nutrition when they attack vaccines, which are basically as close to a home run you can get with medicine for saving lives.
- cryptonector 1y agoThis is what the EPA says in their filing: > Now, after further reviewing the statute pursuant to a publicly announced reconsideration process, EPA agrees with petitioners that parts of the rulemaking process were unlawful and parts of the Rule are thus invalid. This does NOT preclude lawfully making the same ruling later. It also does mean that Zeldin thinks we shouldn't reduce PFAS in our water. It does mean that: - had the EPA held to its previous position the court could have found the rulemaking process illegal and forced the EPA to start over - the EPA retains the ability to restart this rulemaking and this time comply with the applicable acts of Congress. TFA says: > Separately, EPA previously announced that it will seek to extend the compliance deadline for PFOA and PFOS standards by two years from 2029 to 2031. Well, yes hello!! Take these two bits of news in combination and what do we have? We have this: - the EPA concedes that the previous rulemaking was illegal - the EPA indicates that it wants to restart the process and get to roughly the same rules with compliance deadlines in 2031, and this delay is presumptively due of the delay in rulemaking due to the previous rulemaking process having been illegal. And TFA and the commenters here are all screaming their heads off that Zeldin (and Trump) are trying to kill us all or something. Maybe look at the details first? TFA certainly doesn't mention the details! After a fairly obscure first two paragraphs it launches into a diatribe. Fortunately TFA did link the EPA filing, and the very first paragraph of that filing tells us the first half of the story: that the Biden EPA did not follow lawful process. Surely one could debate the lawfulness of the process followed by the Biden EPA, but if the court was on its way to ruling as much then the EPA getting ahead of it was a good thing. The second part of the story is less* clear from just TFA and this filing, but TFA gives us a clue that the EPA apparently intends to restart the rulemaking process, which presumably will lead to roughly the same rules.
- coolhand2120 1y agoI'm not at all surprised that the majority of top level comments are saying things in the spirit of "Trump is trying to kill us to make money!" when if you were following along this _multi decade long regulatory battle_, and knew about the not-so-recent Chevron Deference rulings you could have predicted this. You wouldn't even need to leave HN to keep up, it gets posted here all the time! And these comments have an air of erudite smugness about them that can only come from a person completely without doubt of their convictions - even while being completely devoid of any value to the conversation. The title is at best hyperbolic and at worse at outright lie - in any case the pattern of the title was intended to stoke whatever mental illness we see at play here: "I speculate endlessly on my own world view to the theme of the article title so I can signal to my peers that I'm doing righthink.". But this is what makes the article get engagement, so to hell with communicating ideas, let's stoke division and get those clicks!
- insane_dreamer 1y agoLooks like the EPA is now determined to protect corporations instead of protecting citizens.
- cprayingmantis 1y agoAre there any labs in the US that a regular joe could use to get their water tested? I’ve got quite a few properties with natural springs and I can send the water to get tested for bacteria and mineral content but I don’t know of anywhere that tests for PFAS.