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Seoul says US must fix its visa system if it wants Korea's investments

291 points by garbawarb 1y ago

deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
I don’t think parading out engineers in shackles for a photo op was a good idea. From another article: > Images of South Koreans being shackled at the wrists and ankles have caused outrage in South Korea, a key U.S. ally in Asia that has pledged hundreds of billions in U.S. investment as part of tariff negotiations. It’s just not smart, not good politics and not good business.
- MBCook 1y ago
  > It’s just not smart, not good politics and not good business. So in other words SOP
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    Separate Our Priorities
  - malcolmgreaves 1y ago
    *SOP for Republicans whenever they get ahold of government.
    - vuthery 1y ago
      [flagged]
- standardUser 1y ago
  Police in the US are way too quick to handcuff people. It should be reserved for violent or aggressive suspects, or at least require formal justification as is required in much of Europe. Police here will take a calm and cooperative person and rob them of their most fundamental human right, merely as a convenience.
  - scotty79 1y ago
    It's hard to tell if handling cooperative person in handcuffs is more convenient than without handcuffs.
    - standardUser 1y ago
      No one is cooperating once they are cuffed if they have one iota of sense. Suddenly, the state is their enemy and their only concern should be contacting a lawyer.
  - toasted-subs 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - 14 1y ago
    I do see there undoubtedly is a lot of crazy policing happening but I also am sure a lot of it is because those types of incidents are what get the views. I know there are countless police interactions where they are kind and chill but that is boring to watch. Not saying the violence should get a pass just that I believe there are many good officers out there that do address issues calmly and are not quick to jump someone.
  - flowerthoughts 1y ago
    I saw a body cam video on Youtube yesterday (which wasn't outrageous, so I doubt it was one of the fake ones.) It might have been edited to seem more out-of-line than it was, but I don't think it matters. In it, a wife had died in the shower, and the husband and his father had been inside the house while the shower was on, but "had not talked to her." Naturally, suspicions arose and they wanted to talk more to the husband, but the way the officers continued to rile up the father, who was probably in chock after finding out his son might be a murderer, was just pure unprofessionalism. They could have taken a step back, or avoided being four officers against one father, or any other obvious technique to de-escalate, but nope. Just continue pushing, arguing and believing that "doing our job" never means re-assessing the approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo8PRRkWHc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo8PRRkWHc Edit: spelling
  - 1y ago
- dd36 1y ago
  It’s good for the fossil fuel industry and that’s why it was done.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > It’s good for the fossil fuel industry and that’s why it was done How? (I’m really trying here.)
    - triceratops 1y ago
      They raided a battery manufacturing facility. That's what I guess GP meant.
- jfengel 1y ago
  It may not be smart or good business but it's great politics. It's easy to blame foreigners for any perceived wrong, especially if they're breaking the rules. Your constituents believe that you're setting things right. It will undoubtedly have negative financial effect on those same constituents, but there's always someone else to arrest and take the blame. It's fantastic politics.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    Even if they aren’t breaking the rules, you just make your visa policies complicated enough that you can say they might be breaking rules and your constituents will just eat it all up. Meanwhile South Korea decides getting closer to China might be the better course of action.
    - ponector 1y ago
      >> Meanwhile South Korea decides getting closer to China might be the better course of action. Good for them. If USA is not a reliable ally anymore, not a surprise there are active talks on free trade agreement between China, Japan and Korea.
  - csomar 1y ago
    I don’t think that’s the issue here? The workers were breaking the laws, unacceptable, but there is little evidence that they are a danger to society or the agents handling them. There could have been much better ways to handle this or maybe, hmm, not televise for the whole world to see. It was done to humiliate. Period.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      Exactly. The reason this was bad politics is that it created more pain than was necessary for the desired gain. If Trump wanted leverage in negotiations and to appear strong on immigration... fine. But there are so many ways of accomplishing that that didn't also alienate and piss off an ally to the extent this perp photo shoot did. Hell, the government could have just politely detained them, put out a big splashy press release, then worked with the South Korean embassy to repatriate them. Same benefit, fewer hard feelings. In contrast, as a result now there's going to be much higher government and South Korean domestic pushback on exactly the kind of US investment Trump wants. It's one thing when someone does something distasteful but gets benefit out of going that far. It's another when they do it because they're inept. The only people this excess played well for was Trump's base, and as others pointed out, there are plenty of less trade sensitive immigrant groups that could have been substituted, if that was the goal.
- ProAm 1y ago
  If I were Hyundai and had the cash to spare I would close and tear down the facility.
  - mcphage 1y ago
    Why? They can just lock the doors.
    - overfeed 1y ago
      If the doors are locked, another manufacturer may take over the site. If spite/punishment is the motivation, tearing it down has maximum impact.
- sleepyguy 1y ago
  ICE has bravely rescued us from the menace of people building battery factories. Forget fentanyl, trafficking, or violent crime—our real existential threat was clearly a few Korean engineers with power tools. Obviously, they were biding their time before graduating to cartel kingpins. And thank heavens the plant won’t be finished—who actually wants it and the jobs, infrastructure, etc it would bring. Sleep well, folks—America is saved, one deported factory worker at a time.
  - Scoundreller 1y ago
    The bit that gets me is another country is kinda handing over its technology to USA, so why get in the way? When US engineers went to China to offshore US factories there, I doubt China got in the way. Probably watched with heavy interest but definitely not hindered in any way.
    - fnordpiglet 1y ago
      It’s the other end of the spectrum from migrants from other countries doing the large scale manual labor for little pay by American standards, but high pay by their own. Ultimately everyone benefits. It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white. For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism. This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome. The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.
- lvspiff 1y ago
  It feels like this was more done initially to meet a quota. Lady reports to ICE she thinks illegals working there. ICE does some sorta check and realized there might be an issue with a couple and extrapolated it to all Asians working in the facility. Saw a big juicy chance to roll out the team and detain a ton of people thinking it make Bondi and Trump happy. Now Trump is stuck looking weak to Koreans (and in turn china and India) or weak to his base depending on who he sides with which right now looks to be his base.
  - dboreham 1y ago
    Yeah no.
    - ziftface 1y ago
      Do you have another explanation?
- dfxm12 1y ago
  It was probably good for white nationalists like Trump, his party and their voters though. They also don't seem to be interested in doing what's best for business.
  - robbingtherob 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - aredox 1y ago
      [flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- brundolf 1y ago
  I honestly don't think this administration wants economic allies
  - fnordpiglet 1y ago
    s/economic//g
  - nielsbot 1y ago
    It's fascistic nihilism. They want brown people out of the country and money in their own pockets. If their out group suffers, what does it matter? If the economy crashes, or US world standing falls, who cares? What use is American idealism anyway?
  - yetihehe 1y ago
    1. Lose all the allies, become isolated. 2. Allies are less powerful, the world starts another world war 3. Get sneakily attacked 4. Win the war by entering when everyone is already spent out after fighting for several years. 5. Everyone likes USA because they helped. 6. Profit. Looks like history is about to make another turn of the same wheel, but this time WW1 is Russia (+China) <-> Ukraine (+EU). Russia will be rebuilt by China and start another round to get back on EU.
    - danaris 1y ago
      Except that this time, Trump's starting out by also wrecking the readiness of our military in a number of ways. Make no mistake: This is not grand strategy. It's grandstanding. It's not part of some 5D chess plan. It's just Trump and his ilk being petty, racist bullies, trying desperately to show that they're "more manly" than anyone else.
      - yetihehe 1y ago
        If the threat comes to your shores, people will heroically start doing "the right thing after all other ways were exhausted". High wages for military factory workers will magically appear because they are heroes etc. Last time it took about 3 years to start mass-producing weapons, it will probably still take same amount this time, but it will be done.
- ciconia 1y ago
  This is just American imperialism brought home, and it's already being targeted at American citizens themselves. Now you're starting to get a taste of how people in many countries feel about the US.
  - SR2Z 1y ago
    I mean sure, but you can't pretend this has been a standard fixture of US immigration policy in living memory. Calling it "American imperialism" doesn't make sense because even Trump's stated (and admittedly imperial) goals don't actually line up here.
- thisisit 1y ago
  This government has made big spectacle and promises on deportation. Though the government has seemingly denied there are reports that field offices need to make 75 arrests per day and failing to do so will lead to "accountability": https://immpolicytracking.org/policies/report-ice-directed-to-increase-arrests-to-meet-daily-quotas/ https://immpolicytracking.org/policies/report-ice-directed-t... This means there is a huge incentive to create spectacle out of arrests. So, that in case the field office lags behind, they can always point to the photo op - See how hard we were working there? This might not hurt the government politically because supporters can see those hard hats and exclaim - See they were wearing hard hats, how were they not breaking the law? But at the cost of creating an unnecessary diplomatic crisis. Even if there were visa issues, this puts South Korean government in a bind - they need to answer to their constituents. Being seen as incompetent and unable to save its citizen abroad is a sensitive topic in many countries. Investments might be impacted as well. It seems to me that many Trump supporters think international politics requires blustering. But much of the work happens behind the scenes.
  - jauntywundrkind 1y ago
    Supposedly ICE'a warrant was for 4 specific people, and they went in and ended up detaining and arresting ~475 people. Thats just so unbelievably wild to me.
__turbobrew__ 1y ago
Has anyone disputed the validity of the visas of the workers which were deported? My understanding is that SK citizens cannot get E-4, so people came to the US and worked on a visa that didn’t allow working, and the US deported the people violating visa rules in a not nice way? Im guessing this is the case or else the SK sources would be calling out that these workers were following visa rules?
- Simulacra 1y ago
  It was a clear violation, the rest of this is just posturing for politics. Most of the people had come on the wrong visa, knowingly. So either the company lied, or the employees are lying, or both.
  - a_bonobo 1y ago
    >Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa >At least one of the Korean workers swept up in a huge immigration raid on a Hyundai Motor factory site in Georgia last week was living and working legally in the US, according to an internal federal government document obtained by the Guardian. >Officials then “mandated” that he agree to be removed from the US despite not having violated his visa. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-factory-ice-raid-legal-visa https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-fact...
    - like_any_other 1y ago
      "worker", singular. And the rest?
      - sinuhe69 1y ago
        Is the blatant violation of the rights and dignity of at least one person not alarming enough for you? Shouldn't the rights of individuals be respected? And can a society that willingly turns a blind eye to such incidents still be called a constitutional state?
jacquesm 1y ago
This was pretty predictable. What is also predictable is that it isn't just South Korea that came to that conclusion.
keepamovin 1y ago
[flagged]
- SilverElfin 1y ago
  I’m also surprised by the comments because the complaint about the illegal work came from unionized American workers, and HN is usually very pro union. I guess the protectionist stance of unions isn’t worth defending if it can be weaponized politically.
  - petralithic 1y ago
    > HN is usually very pro union I had a good laugh at this. I don't think I've ever seen HN be pro union, it's generally more libertarian.
slyall 1y ago
Personally I'd be very careful about traveling to the US office for a two week visit these days on an ESTA or similar Visa Waiver. Historically people have done it and a blind eye has been turned, but with the climate these days you want to be 100% in compliance of your Visa conditions.
- a_bonobo 1y ago
  Here in Australia, we've received org-wide approval to just not go to the US if we cannot help it. It's not worth the risk.
  - blackguardx 1y ago
    My US-based company has the same policy for all international travel now to avoid any incidents coming back into the US.
  - AnotherGoodName 1y ago
    Traditionally the to do work trips into the USA for Australia and other USA allies was the ESTA visa waiver that these Koreans were on. From reading about what happened here it seems the South Koreans were on that visa waiver for their work trips. A lot of people claiming "it doesn't allow you to work" yet the visa waiver has a long long list of various types of work it does allow and it's pretty broad. So it seems the ESTA isn't worth anything anymore. You can't go to the USA without a very very heavyweight working VISA. Ok. No more trade shows, conferences or general business trips.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      > So it seems the ESTA isn't worth anything anymore. You can't go to the USA without a very very heavyweight working VISA. There really isn’t much between a B-1 and an H1-B, so there isn’t much of a path forward here. That factory isn’t getting built until the USA re-instates previous exceptions.
- nitinreddy88 1y ago
  Isn't it how it supposed to be? Valid Visa -> free to enter No valid Visa -> should be behind the bars
phendrenad2 1y ago
The US immigration system is an overcomplicated mess, and seemingly no one in government wants to change it. Maybe change will happen now.
shikon7 1y ago
I wonder what is so special about South Korea here. Companies from many other countries invest in the US, seemingly without the same problems. Is South Korea disadvantaged by the visa system, or is it coincidence that this happened here?
- AnotherGoodName 1y ago
  I can tell you that Australians travel for work to the USA on the ESTA visa wavier all the time. It specifically states on the form that it allows business travel. The idea that you can't do work trips to the US office on the visa waiver and that the only way to do this is with an extremely heavyweight working visa seems ridiculous. It's not that the Koreans are the only one's doing this. It's that they were the first to hit by this very new interpretation of the law. Now that this interpretation is public i don't think anyone's going to the US for conferences/trade shows/general business trips for a few years.
  - SilverElfin 1y ago
    ESTA is not the equivalent of a visa. Under the visa waiver program you’re very restricted on the kind of work you can do and how you can be compensated for it. This work was very clearly not in compliance. For example like the B-1 visa, “business meetings” under ESTA refer to passive attendance only, and do not include active business operations or contributions.
    - AnotherGoodName 1y ago
      Every law has a lot of need for some interpretation. In the past the ESTA Business visa waiver was the recommended way in for short term working trips to the us office. In the past no one really worried to much if they typed a line of code or sent a work email. It’s clearly not in the spirit of the law to enforce too strictly imho. This new extremely strict interpretation means that the only safe way to travel to the USA for work is on a h1-b or similar heavyweight working visas. This is fine if you wish to interpret it this strictly. There are of course consequences and as noted by many many non-US people above the ESTA business visa waiver is near worthless under such strict interpretation. Which means no more short term trips to the US office nor conferences or trade shows. The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.
Animats 1y ago
“Until now, the US was not in the position of requesting investment from us. But now, we hold the power as investors, and the US must respond to our demands.” Korean legislator. Many Americans don't realize how badly Trump's bullying approach is backfiring internationally.
- keepamovin 1y ago
  This is not caused by Trump pushing back against against these countries exploiting the United States. These countries already held these attitudes, now they’re just saying it in English.
  - malfist 1y ago
    Exactly how did South Korea exploit the United States?
    - keepamovin 1y ago
      Unfair barriers to their market, IP theft, exploiting of loopholes (e.g., tranship Chinese goods relabeled MIK), subsidies and dumping.
      - malfist 1y ago
        Please be specific. What IP did south Korea steal from the US?
        keepamovin 1y ago
        Sure, but...you can just do an LLM search if you want to learn, so ...? Wait - you're just being performative to pretend it's not happening, chyeah? Ohhh, okay. So I need to counter with facts so the 'narrative' maintains that it is happening, otherwise you've 'proven' that it's not, via your unanswered request, right? Okay, so -- while you're basically simping for SK here, yes? Invested, ethnic? -- Anyway, sure, here's a tiny fraction: - Kolon Industries Inc. (South Korea/n) Pleads Guilty for Conspiring to Steal DuPont Trade Secrets Involving Kevlar Technology https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/kolon-industries-inc-pleads-guilty-conspiring-steal-dupont-trade-secrets-involving-kevlar https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/kolon-industries-inc... - Toray Chemical Korea Resolves Attempted Theft Of Trade Secrets Investigation And Agrees To Pay Over $2 Million Penalty https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/toray-chemical-korea-resolves-attempted-theft-trade-secrets-investigation-and-agrees https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/toray-chemical-korea-re... - Idaho National Laboratory (INL) Espionage Attempt https://www.tmpcinc.com/espionage-case-doe-lab-contractor-employee-terminated/ https://www.tmpcinc.com/espionage-case-doe-lab-contractor-em... - SK (Samsung) steals DRAM from US companies (uses softening, weasel language you'll like): 'Samsung adopted a dual strategy for development of the 256K DRAM generation, following extensive "reverse engineering" of Micron's design (Ernst 1994b: 81). Two teams, one in Silicon Valley and the other in Korea, simultaneously started the same work. In October 1984, the Korea-based team developed a 256K DRAM sample. In early 1985 the Silicon Valley team developed one, and this was the sample adopted for mass production (Ernst 1994b). The DRAM case provides one of the most important examples of Samsung's practice of creating new capability by quickly combining new knowledge and information from foreign sources with its accumulated current skill base' https://brie.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/wp106.pdf https://brie.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/wp106.pdf - 1992–1994: Micron accuses Hyundai & Goldstar (LG) of using Micron’s DRAM process; ITC case and settlement. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/11/13/Micron-files-patent-infringement-complaint/7546721630800/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/11/13/Micron-files-patent-... "In Nov 1992 Micron filed a Section 337 complaint at the U.S. International Trade Commission alleging imported DRAMs “manufactured abroad by a process” covered by Micron’s U.S. Patent 4,436,584. The investigation (337-TA-345) was terminated in 1994 after Micron and Hyundai executed a settlement and license agreement; Micron’s own 1994 annual report also notes cross-licenses with Goldstar and Hyundai and dismissal of the ITC action. This is the clearest, contemporaneous paper trail that Micron said its process IP was being used without permission and then licensed it via settlement." https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-16/html/94-6128.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-16/html/94-61... etc ...
pcurve 1y ago
This will likely hit tourism from SK as well, which is already down 15%.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
America can’t build ships. Including warships. In a war of attrition with China, guess which ally we’ll have to depend on to make our shit? (Hint [1].) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuilding_companies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuil...
- rawgabbit 1y ago
  They are also supplying Poland with the tanks it needs to defend itself. https://www.reuters.com/markets/emerging/poland-signs-contract-buy-more-south-korean-battle-tanks-2025-08-01 https://www.reuters.com/markets/emerging/poland-signs-contra...
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  South Korea is way too close to China to be relied on n a war against China. Only if we have an overwhelming advantage and the war is mostly a defensive one for China, but I seriously doubt that would be the case.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Korea is way too close to China to be relied on n a war against China Enemy of thy enemy. We protect Korea from the Kims. We also buy from them and treat them with dignity. Break those pillars and yes, China controls Asia and the Pacific in a way Yamamoto could have only dreamed of. > and the war is mostly a defensive one for China China holding Taiwan is a direct threat to the security of Seoul.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      I get that, I just don’t think the front line will be so close to China. Even in the Korean War non-regular Chinese troops were able to take Seoul…twice. The country just isn’t very defensible in a war with China, not defensible enough to have it continue making ships uninterrupted.
    - Ray20 1y ago
nimish 1y ago
Are there details on what visas Hyundai needed they couldn't get? L-1A/B for sending experts or management would make sense but I'm not sure there's any real issue getting those, especially not in 2023 when the plant was started.
- themaninthedark 1y ago
  They keep referring to the workers as contractors, which is a bit ambiguous as it is used for both people doing construction work or people hired for outside technical expertise. There were here on B1/B2 Visas according to the reporting, which has a 6 month duration and rather strict requirements: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369 If they were here in the first case of the word, I would say they were definitely in violation. If here for the second case, perhaps not but if they did not get the "B-1 in place of H-1B visa (temporary project visa): Some professionals might be eligible for a B-1 visa for temporary projects in specific scenarios. This option can be viable when an H-1B visa, typically used for specialty occupations, might be challenging to obtain." they may have still been in violation.
  - christkv 1y ago
    There is a visa called a B1 in lieu of an H1B. Its for 6 months max and i have been on it.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
refurb 1y ago
If the US builds a plant in Korea, can it hire Americans hundreds to do the work? https://www.immigration.go.kr/immigration_eng/1852/subview.do https://www.immigration.go.kr/immigration_eng/1852/subview.d... Doesn't look like it. Several restrictions on how many (max 5) dependent upon the construction budget. If Korea selectively needs to bring over skilled workers, there are options. But hundreds?
- fatbird 1y ago
  To start up a factory and train local workers, eventually numbering thousands, in a new industrial process? Hundreds, easily.
  - themaninthedark 1y ago
    Seems like they should have been on an L-B1 visa not a B1/B2 visa if that is what they were doing. "The L-1B nonimmigrant classification enables a U.S. employer to transfer a professional employee with specialized knowledge relating to the organization’s interests from one of its affiliated foreign offices to one of its offices in the United States. This classification also enables a foreign company that does not yet have an affiliated U.S. office to send a specialized knowledge employee to the United States to help establish one." https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/l-1b-intracompany-transferee-specialized-knowledge https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
    - christkv 1y ago
      There is also the B1 in lieu of an H1B
      - adrian_b 1y ago
        B1 is what these Koreans did have. B1 is very restricted in the kind of work that can be done and it is claimed that the Hyundai workers have violated the restrictions.
- 1y ago
andris9 1y ago
I once flew to the US for a week on ESTA to attend a few meetings (pre-COVID), but I mostly just did my regular developer work in the US office. By today’s standards, would I have been shackled for that?
- ViewTrick1002 1y ago
  Yes.
- dbancajas 1y ago
  If there's a photo op opportunity I'm sure you would be.
- themaninthedark 1y ago
  No: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/business.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/business... >A foreigner traveling to the United States to conduct temporary business must have a visitor visa (B) unless qualifying for entry under the Visa Waiver Program. Examples of temporary business include: Attending business meetings or consultations Attending a business convention or conference Negotiating contracts
  - ViewTrick1002 1y ago
    The meeting is fine. The developer work is not.
    - themaninthedark 1y ago
      Right but the purpose of the trip was to attend the business meeting and the person on the trip was also conducting their regular duties as a developer as well. Attending meetings and conferences are rarely the main duties of an employee but they are the main purpose of trips. Similarly to how, if you go to Mexico on a Tourist Visa but answer a critical work phone call you would not be breaching the terms of your visa as the purpose of your trip is still vacation. However if you rent a house for 5 months and spend most of that time doing developer work, I think that the authorities there might be a little upset.
second_brekkie 1y ago
I happen to know someone well who works for a Korean Conglomerate building industrial/car batteries in the US. When you do construction work, or operate the production line it has to be done by American Labour. The visas they have only cover setup, repair and education of the production line. At that LG/Hyundai factory they were using Korean contractors for construction. So there was some breaking of the terms of the visa for at least some of the people. However, ICE didn't need to arrest everyone. All they needed to do was send a warning. These companies don't want the trouble, they would comply. Now you have many Koreans very upset. And people in my friends company are now scared to go to America even though they are management. It's not good for anyone, it's just so short sighted!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  Authoritarians love strong message optics, for better or worse or much worse.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  It used to be a wink wink agreement between the US and Korea. Yes, Korean companies break rules, but a lot of it tends to be directly related to the terms put in by the government. There’s milestones and deadlines that need to be met to ensure money gets released. But we all know what happens to construction projects here. There were some people definitely working on wrong visas. https://www.ft.com/content/c677b9aa-2e89-4feb-a56f-f3c8452b3674 https://www.ft.com/content/c677b9aa-2e89-4feb-a56f-f3c8452b3...
  - dboreham 1y ago
    Anyone who has worked for a larger than mom and pop company outside the US, who has been sent to the US by their company for some reason knows that the legality of their presence and type of visa needed is top of mind. Triple so when the company is as large as Hyundai. For certain they retain a specialist US immigration law firm.
SilverElfin 1y ago
Maybe. But that doesn’t excuse Korean companies violating immigration laws. Union workers who reported this and invited the raid have reported that this was a tactic taken to avoid paying local workers.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- scotty79 1y ago
  Why would Hyundai trust the competence of local workers? If US workforce was competent enough to build battery factory they would have built it without Hyundai. It's not like US lacks money. It just lacks everything else, including competence and common sense. It was probably a tactic to get stuff done.
  - jjani 1y ago
    Koreans and the Korean government would have zero time for that excuse if e.g. a Chinese company gives the exact same reasoning to violate visa laws in Korea.
    - ziftface 1y ago
      If a Chinese company was making a substantial investment in Korea, they would likely not be stupid enough to jeopardize the project over some paperwork.
      - jjani 1y ago
        The citizens would be very unlikely to view it that way, so they'd have to pray it doesn't hit the news.
    - maxglute 1y ago
      Of course they would, assuming typical dynamics. If Koreans (or anyone) WANTED something from someone else, especially technical investment they can't do themselves, they would move heaven and earth, including look the other way to "excuses" to facilitate. The issue is US wants via coercion / pressure due to strategic leverages US that has elsewhere on host of "partners". It's not typical courting for investment. US want others who are already reluctant to invest in US on US terms, even if the terms are onerous/broken i.e. the VISA system. US not making it easy, and in fact, unnecessarily hard for political theatre. Countries are investing in US because US took away carrots and added a lot of sticks, which is already different dynamic. Most countries that really want something from someone else has to play nice, give carrots and remove sticks. US/Trump admin thinks otherwise, and maybe it's in position to get away with it. Or maybe investors will bail regardless of how big the stick gets.
goku12 1y ago
The Koreans are so generous! I don't think that any other country would be so polite if they were humiliated like this [1] after they made such big investments in your country. I don't get the feeling that many in the US understand that you are the one at disadvantage when you disrespect your investors. Is it because the US has never faced a diplomatic backlash before? At the minimum, the aggrieved party would hold the rest of the investments hostage and force you into making major concessions. Anyway, the way ICE treats immigrants is going to cost the US dearly, both in monetary and in reputational terms. The US may not care much about the dignity of the foreigners, but their parent countries do. The charade about 'illegal immigrants' won't work anymore, because clearly that's not what's happening. It's like the foreigners are targeted to prove a political point to the domestic audience. ICE is acting like a rogue force and is really asking to be outlawed and sanctioned internationally. I want to see how long the rest of the world will remain restrained before they've had enough of the ICE abuse. [1] The news I got from a US source (don't remember which one) was that all of them except one were on valid temporary work visas to set up the plant and train the new US staff who would take over later. That one exception was also on a valid visa, but 'productive job' was not allowed. But he was there for training, so no violations there either.
- Ray20 1y ago
  > I want to see how long the rest of the world will remain restrained before they've had enough of the ICE abuse. The rest of the world will remain restrained indefinitely. Yes, populist politics requires voicing outrage at this, but otherwise this is more a good thing than a bad thing. Because salaries in the US in the real sector of the economy are often 5 times higher than even in other developed countries. So there is a huge drain of the best specialists to the US from all over the world. And no country wants to lose its best professionals.
  - goku12 1y ago
    I believe that ICE's own actions will remedy that situation too.
- GJim 1y ago
  > I don't think that any other country would be so polite if they were humiliated like this Everyone is exercising diplomatic niceties [1]. However, we have all come to realise the USA can no longer be trusted as a good faith partner. The USA has even managed to piss off Canada. And lets be honest, you have got to work really hard to piss off the Canadians. [1] British subtlety at it's finest... official photos of His Majesty The King meeting Big Z, the latter appropriately dressed for meeting royalty. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-charles-king-the-king-prince-of-wales-b1058856.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-...
vuthery 1y ago
[flagged]
aussieguy1234 1y ago
I'll bet the North Korean government picks up the raid and uses it as propaganda on their state TV, as an example of "How americans treat koreans".
dandanua 1y ago
The boiled frog of American democracy has dissolved into a mess but people still think it is a thing.
southernplaces7 1y ago
A sad thing about these kinds of economic backfires through incompetent, ideological showboating is that Trump could order them in such a way that they utterly ruin the domestic economy, cause massive job losses and miseries for his blue collar base, and these people would still continue to support him while swallowing much of his blame game about the cause of the problems being something else even after years of suffering. People tend towards enormous ideological stickiness when admitting mistaken loyalty means feeling stupid for having condoned its excesses. I can't count the number of third world countries where local politicians, in power for decades sometimes, depend on exactly the above rules. They abuse their systems in the same ways, say similar lies to their supporters, and keep winning enough votes to stay in power for years or even decades. The same has been the case of certain democrat and republican party machines in major US cities that went utterly to shit across many election cycles in which the same ideological bases kept winning. It's just a shame that it has to happen at a national level now with similar results brewing.
sirmike_ 1y ago
Nope. South Korea can kick rocks.
Alex4386 1y ago
Anti-american party doing casual "america bad" speeches huh. Btw, its their fault for not filing proper VISAs. I don't get why there is all the nation-wide fiasco about LG Energy Solution incorrectly filing VISAs and asking government for help for their screw ups. *Note for anyone on Hackernews: hani is well-known as left-wing news outlet in Korea. Think about CNN, and take with grain of salt.

291 points by garbawarb 1y ago

I don’t think parading out engineers in shackles for a photo op was a good idea. From another article: > Images of South Koreans being shackled at the wrists and ankles have caused outrage in South Korea, a key U.S. ally in Asia that has pledged hundreds of billions in U.S. investment as part of tariff negotiations. It’s just not smart, not good politics and not good business.

MBCook 1y ago
> It’s just not smart, not good politics and not good business. So in other words SOP
- cwmoore 1y ago
  Separate Our Priorities
- malcolmgreaves 1y ago
  *SOP for Republicans whenever they get ahold of government.
  - vuthery 1y ago
    [flagged]
standardUser 1y ago
Police in the US are way too quick to handcuff people. It should be reserved for violent or aggressive suspects, or at least require formal justification as is required in much of Europe. Police here will take a calm and cooperative person and rob them of their most fundamental human right, merely as a convenience.
- scotty79 1y ago
  It's hard to tell if handling cooperative person in handcuffs is more convenient than without handcuffs.
  - standardUser 1y ago
    No one is cooperating once they are cuffed if they have one iota of sense. Suddenly, the state is their enemy and their only concern should be contacting a lawyer.
- toasted-subs 1y ago
  [flagged]
- 14 1y ago
  I do see there undoubtedly is a lot of crazy policing happening but I also am sure a lot of it is because those types of incidents are what get the views. I know there are countless police interactions where they are kind and chill but that is boring to watch. Not saying the violence should get a pass just that I believe there are many good officers out there that do address issues calmly and are not quick to jump someone.
- flowerthoughts 1y ago
  I saw a body cam video on Youtube yesterday (which wasn't outrageous, so I doubt it was one of the fake ones.) It might have been edited to seem more out-of-line than it was, but I don't think it matters. In it, a wife had died in the shower, and the husband and his father had been inside the house while the shower was on, but "had not talked to her." Naturally, suspicions arose and they wanted to talk more to the husband, but the way the officers continued to rile up the father, who was probably in chock after finding out his son might be a murderer, was just pure unprofessionalism. They could have taken a step back, or avoided being four officers against one father, or any other obvious technique to de-escalate, but nope. Just continue pushing, arguing and believing that "doing our job" never means re-assessing the approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo8PRRkWHc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo8PRRkWHc Edit: spelling
- 1y ago
dd36 1y ago
It’s good for the fossil fuel industry and that’s why it was done.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > It’s good for the fossil fuel industry and that’s why it was done How? (I’m really trying here.)
  - triceratops 1y ago
    They raided a battery manufacturing facility. That's what I guess GP meant.
jfengel 1y ago
It may not be smart or good business but it's great politics. It's easy to blame foreigners for any perceived wrong, especially if they're breaking the rules. Your constituents believe that you're setting things right. It will undoubtedly have negative financial effect on those same constituents, but there's always someone else to arrest and take the blame. It's fantastic politics.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  Even if they aren’t breaking the rules, you just make your visa policies complicated enough that you can say they might be breaking rules and your constituents will just eat it all up. Meanwhile South Korea decides getting closer to China might be the better course of action.
  - ponector 1y ago
    >> Meanwhile South Korea decides getting closer to China might be the better course of action. Good for them. If USA is not a reliable ally anymore, not a surprise there are active talks on free trade agreement between China, Japan and Korea.
- csomar 1y ago
  I don’t think that’s the issue here? The workers were breaking the laws, unacceptable, but there is little evidence that they are a danger to society or the agents handling them. There could have been much better ways to handle this or maybe, hmm, not televise for the whole world to see. It was done to humiliate. Period.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    Exactly. The reason this was bad politics is that it created more pain than was necessary for the desired gain. If Trump wanted leverage in negotiations and to appear strong on immigration... fine. But there are so many ways of accomplishing that that didn't also alienate and piss off an ally to the extent this perp photo shoot did. Hell, the government could have just politely detained them, put out a big splashy press release, then worked with the South Korean embassy to repatriate them. Same benefit, fewer hard feelings. In contrast, as a result now there's going to be much higher government and South Korean domestic pushback on exactly the kind of US investment Trump wants. It's one thing when someone does something distasteful but gets benefit out of going that far. It's another when they do it because they're inept. The only people this excess played well for was Trump's base, and as others pointed out, there are plenty of less trade sensitive immigrant groups that could have been substituted, if that was the goal.
ProAm 1y ago
If I were Hyundai and had the cash to spare I would close and tear down the facility.
- mcphage 1y ago
  Why? They can just lock the doors.
  - overfeed 1y ago
    If the doors are locked, another manufacturer may take over the site. If spite/punishment is the motivation, tearing it down has maximum impact.
sleepyguy 1y ago
ICE has bravely rescued us from the menace of people building battery factories. Forget fentanyl, trafficking, or violent crime—our real existential threat was clearly a few Korean engineers with power tools. Obviously, they were biding their time before graduating to cartel kingpins. And thank heavens the plant won’t be finished—who actually wants it and the jobs, infrastructure, etc it would bring. Sleep well, folks—America is saved, one deported factory worker at a time.
- Scoundreller 1y ago
  The bit that gets me is another country is kinda handing over its technology to USA, so why get in the way? When US engineers went to China to offshore US factories there, I doubt China got in the way. Probably watched with heavy interest but definitely not hindered in any way.
  - fnordpiglet 1y ago
    It’s the other end of the spectrum from migrants from other countries doing the large scale manual labor for little pay by American standards, but high pay by their own. Ultimately everyone benefits. It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white. For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism. This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome. The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.
lvspiff 1y ago
It feels like this was more done initially to meet a quota. Lady reports to ICE she thinks illegals working there. ICE does some sorta check and realized there might be an issue with a couple and extrapolated it to all Asians working in the facility. Saw a big juicy chance to roll out the team and detain a ton of people thinking it make Bondi and Trump happy. Now Trump is stuck looking weak to Koreans (and in turn china and India) or weak to his base depending on who he sides with which right now looks to be his base.
- dboreham 1y ago
  Yeah no.
  - ziftface 1y ago
    Do you have another explanation?
dfxm12 1y ago
It was probably good for white nationalists like Trump, his party and their voters though. They also don't seem to be interested in doing what's best for business.
- robbingtherob 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - aredox 1y ago
    [flagged]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
brundolf 1y ago
I honestly don't think this administration wants economic allies
- fnordpiglet 1y ago
  s/economic//g
- nielsbot 1y ago
  It's fascistic nihilism. They want brown people out of the country and money in their own pockets. If their out group suffers, what does it matter? If the economy crashes, or US world standing falls, who cares? What use is American idealism anyway?
- yetihehe 1y ago
  1. Lose all the allies, become isolated. 2. Allies are less powerful, the world starts another world war 3. Get sneakily attacked 4. Win the war by entering when everyone is already spent out after fighting for several years. 5. Everyone likes USA because they helped. 6. Profit. Looks like history is about to make another turn of the same wheel, but this time WW1 is Russia (+China) <-> Ukraine (+EU). Russia will be rebuilt by China and start another round to get back on EU.
  - danaris 1y ago
    Except that this time, Trump's starting out by also wrecking the readiness of our military in a number of ways. Make no mistake: This is not grand strategy. It's grandstanding. It's not part of some 5D chess plan. It's just Trump and his ilk being petty, racist bullies, trying desperately to show that they're "more manly" than anyone else.
    - yetihehe 1y ago
      If the threat comes to your shores, people will heroically start doing "the right thing after all other ways were exhausted". High wages for military factory workers will magically appear because they are heroes etc. Last time it took about 3 years to start mass-producing weapons, it will probably still take same amount this time, but it will be done.
ciconia 1y ago
This is just American imperialism brought home, and it's already being targeted at American citizens themselves. Now you're starting to get a taste of how people in many countries feel about the US.
- SR2Z 1y ago
  I mean sure, but you can't pretend this has been a standard fixture of US immigration policy in living memory. Calling it "American imperialism" doesn't make sense because even Trump's stated (and admittedly imperial) goals don't actually line up here.
thisisit 1y ago
This government has made big spectacle and promises on deportation. Though the government has seemingly denied there are reports that field offices need to make 75 arrests per day and failing to do so will lead to "accountability": https://immpolicytracking.org/policies/report-ice-directed-to-increase-arrests-to-meet-daily-quotas/ https://immpolicytracking.org/policies/report-ice-directed-t... This means there is a huge incentive to create spectacle out of arrests. So, that in case the field office lags behind, they can always point to the photo op - See how hard we were working there? This might not hurt the government politically because supporters can see those hard hats and exclaim - See they were wearing hard hats, how were they not breaking the law? But at the cost of creating an unnecessary diplomatic crisis. Even if there were visa issues, this puts South Korean government in a bind - they need to answer to their constituents. Being seen as incompetent and unable to save its citizen abroad is a sensitive topic in many countries. Investments might be impacted as well. It seems to me that many Trump supporters think international politics requires blustering. But much of the work happens behind the scenes.
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  Supposedly ICE'a warrant was for 4 specific people, and they went in and ended up detaining and arresting ~475 people. Thats just so unbelievably wild to me.

__turbobrew__ 1y ago

Has anyone disputed the validity of the visas of the workers which were deported? My understanding is that SK citizens cannot get E-4, so people came to the US and worked on a visa that didn’t allow working, and the US deported the people violating visa rules in a not nice way? Im guessing this is the case or else the SK sources would be calling out that these workers were following visa rules?

Simulacra 1y ago
It was a clear violation, the rest of this is just posturing for politics. Most of the people had come on the wrong visa, knowingly. So either the company lied, or the employees are lying, or both.
- a_bonobo 1y ago
  >Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa >At least one of the Korean workers swept up in a huge immigration raid on a Hyundai Motor factory site in Georgia last week was living and working legally in the US, according to an internal federal government document obtained by the Guardian. >Officials then “mandated” that he agree to be removed from the US despite not having violated his visa. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-factory-ice-raid-legal-visa https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-fact...
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    "worker", singular. And the rest?
    - sinuhe69 1y ago
      Is the blatant violation of the rights and dignity of at least one person not alarming enough for you? Shouldn't the rights of individuals be respected? And can a society that willingly turns a blind eye to such incidents still be called a constitutional state?

jacquesm 1y ago

This was pretty predictable. What is also predictable is that it isn't just South Korea that came to that conclusion.

keepamovin 1y ago

[flagged]

SilverElfin 1y ago
I’m also surprised by the comments because the complaint about the illegal work came from unionized American workers, and HN is usually very pro union. I guess the protectionist stance of unions isn’t worth defending if it can be weaponized politically.
- petralithic 1y ago
  > HN is usually very pro union I had a good laugh at this. I don't think I've ever seen HN be pro union, it's generally more libertarian.

slyall 1y ago

Personally I'd be very careful about traveling to the US office for a two week visit these days on an ESTA or similar Visa Waiver. Historically people have done it and a blind eye has been turned, but with the climate these days you want to be 100% in compliance of your Visa conditions.

a_bonobo 1y ago
Here in Australia, we've received org-wide approval to just not go to the US if we cannot help it. It's not worth the risk.
- blackguardx 1y ago
  My US-based company has the same policy for all international travel now to avoid any incidents coming back into the US.
- AnotherGoodName 1y ago
  Traditionally the to do work trips into the USA for Australia and other USA allies was the ESTA visa waiver that these Koreans were on. From reading about what happened here it seems the South Koreans were on that visa waiver for their work trips. A lot of people claiming "it doesn't allow you to work" yet the visa waiver has a long long list of various types of work it does allow and it's pretty broad. So it seems the ESTA isn't worth anything anymore. You can't go to the USA without a very very heavyweight working VISA. Ok. No more trade shows, conferences or general business trips.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    > So it seems the ESTA isn't worth anything anymore. You can't go to the USA without a very very heavyweight working VISA. There really isn’t much between a B-1 and an H1-B, so there isn’t much of a path forward here. That factory isn’t getting built until the USA re-instates previous exceptions.
nitinreddy88 1y ago
Isn't it how it supposed to be? Valid Visa -> free to enter No valid Visa -> should be behind the bars

phendrenad2 1y ago

The US immigration system is an overcomplicated mess, and seemingly no one in government wants to change it. Maybe change will happen now.

shikon7 1y ago

I wonder what is so special about South Korea here. Companies from many other countries invest in the US, seemingly without the same problems. Is South Korea disadvantaged by the visa system, or is it coincidence that this happened here?

AnotherGoodName 1y ago
I can tell you that Australians travel for work to the USA on the ESTA visa wavier all the time. It specifically states on the form that it allows business travel. The idea that you can't do work trips to the US office on the visa waiver and that the only way to do this is with an extremely heavyweight working visa seems ridiculous. It's not that the Koreans are the only one's doing this. It's that they were the first to hit by this very new interpretation of the law. Now that this interpretation is public i don't think anyone's going to the US for conferences/trade shows/general business trips for a few years.
- SilverElfin 1y ago
  ESTA is not the equivalent of a visa. Under the visa waiver program you’re very restricted on the kind of work you can do and how you can be compensated for it. This work was very clearly not in compliance. For example like the B-1 visa, “business meetings” under ESTA refer to passive attendance only, and do not include active business operations or contributions.
  - AnotherGoodName 1y ago
    Every law has a lot of need for some interpretation. In the past the ESTA Business visa waiver was the recommended way in for short term working trips to the us office. In the past no one really worried to much if they typed a line of code or sent a work email. It’s clearly not in the spirit of the law to enforce too strictly imho. This new extremely strict interpretation means that the only safe way to travel to the USA for work is on a h1-b or similar heavyweight working visas. This is fine if you wish to interpret it this strictly. There are of course consequences and as noted by many many non-US people above the ESTA business visa waiver is near worthless under such strict interpretation. Which means no more short term trips to the US office nor conferences or trade shows. The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.

Animats 1y ago

“Until now, the US was not in the position of requesting investment from us. But now, we hold the power as investors, and the US must respond to our demands.” Korean legislator. Many Americans don't realize how badly Trump's bullying approach is backfiring internationally.

keepamovin 1y ago
This is not caused by Trump pushing back against against these countries exploiting the United States. These countries already held these attitudes, now they’re just saying it in English.
- malfist 1y ago
  Exactly how did South Korea exploit the United States?
  - keepamovin 1y ago
    Unfair barriers to their market, IP theft, exploiting of loopholes (e.g., tranship Chinese goods relabeled MIK), subsidies and dumping.
    - malfist 1y ago
      Please be specific. What IP did south Korea steal from the US?
      - keepamovin 1y ago
        Sure, but...you can just do an LLM search if you want to learn, so ...? Wait - you're just being performative to pretend it's not happening, chyeah? Ohhh, okay. So I need to counter with facts so the 'narrative' maintains that it is happening, otherwise you've 'proven' that it's not, via your unanswered request, right? Okay, so -- while you're basically simping for SK here, yes? Invested, ethnic? -- Anyway, sure, here's a tiny fraction: - Kolon Industries Inc. (South Korea/n) Pleads Guilty for Conspiring to Steal DuPont Trade Secrets Involving Kevlar Technology https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/kolon-industries-inc-pleads-guilty-conspiring-steal-dupont-trade-secrets-involving-kevlar https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/kolon-industries-inc... - Toray Chemical Korea Resolves Attempted Theft Of Trade Secrets Investigation And Agrees To Pay Over $2 Million Penalty https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/toray-chemical-korea-resolves-attempted-theft-trade-secrets-investigation-and-agrees https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/toray-chemical-korea-re... - Idaho National Laboratory (INL) Espionage Attempt https://www.tmpcinc.com/espionage-case-doe-lab-contractor-employee-terminated/ https://www.tmpcinc.com/espionage-case-doe-lab-contractor-em... - SK (Samsung) steals DRAM from US companies (uses softening, weasel language you'll like): 'Samsung adopted a dual strategy for development of the 256K DRAM generation, following extensive "reverse engineering" of Micron's design (Ernst 1994b: 81). Two teams, one in Silicon Valley and the other in Korea, simultaneously started the same work. In October 1984, the Korea-based team developed a 256K DRAM sample. In early 1985 the Silicon Valley team developed one, and this was the sample adopted for mass production (Ernst 1994b). The DRAM case provides one of the most important examples of Samsung's practice of creating new capability by quickly combining new knowledge and information from foreign sources with its accumulated current skill base' https://brie.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/wp106.pdf https://brie.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/wp106.pdf - 1992–1994: Micron accuses Hyundai & Goldstar (LG) of using Micron’s DRAM process; ITC case and settlement. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/11/13/Micron-files-patent-infringement-complaint/7546721630800/ https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/11/13/Micron-files-patent-... "In Nov 1992 Micron filed a Section 337 complaint at the U.S. International Trade Commission alleging imported DRAMs “manufactured abroad by a process” covered by Micron’s U.S. Patent 4,436,584. The investigation (337-TA-345) was terminated in 1994 after Micron and Hyundai executed a settlement and license agreement; Micron’s own 1994 annual report also notes cross-licenses with Goldstar and Hyundai and dismissal of the ITC action. This is the clearest, contemporaneous paper trail that Micron said its process IP was being used without permission and then licensed it via settlement." https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-16/html/94-6128.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-16/html/94-61... etc ...

pcurve 1y ago

This will likely hit tourism from SK as well, which is already down 15%.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

America can’t build ships. Including warships. In a war of attrition with China, guess which ally we’ll have to depend on to make our shit? (Hint [1].) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuilding_companies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuil...

rawgabbit 1y ago
They are also supplying Poland with the tanks it needs to defend itself. https://www.reuters.com/markets/emerging/poland-signs-contract-buy-more-south-korean-battle-tanks-2025-08-01 https://www.reuters.com/markets/emerging/poland-signs-contra...
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
South Korea is way too close to China to be relied on n a war against China. Only if we have an overwhelming advantage and the war is mostly a defensive one for China, but I seriously doubt that would be the case.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Korea is way too close to China to be relied on n a war against China Enemy of thy enemy. We protect Korea from the Kims. We also buy from them and treat them with dignity. Break those pillars and yes, China controls Asia and the Pacific in a way Yamamoto could have only dreamed of. > and the war is mostly a defensive one for China China holding Taiwan is a direct threat to the security of Seoul.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    I get that, I just don’t think the front line will be so close to China. Even in the Korean War non-regular Chinese troops were able to take Seoul…twice. The country just isn’t very defensible in a war with China, not defensible enough to have it continue making ships uninterrupted.
  - Ray20 1y ago

nimish 1y ago

Are there details on what visas Hyundai needed they couldn't get? L-1A/B for sending experts or management would make sense but I'm not sure there's any real issue getting those, especially not in 2023 when the plant was started.

themaninthedark 1y ago
They keep referring to the workers as contractors, which is a bit ambiguous as it is used for both people doing construction work or people hired for outside technical expertise. There were here on B1/B2 Visas according to the reporting, which has a 6 month duration and rather strict requirements: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369 If they were here in the first case of the word, I would say they were definitely in violation. If here for the second case, perhaps not but if they did not get the "B-1 in place of H-1B visa (temporary project visa): Some professionals might be eligible for a B-1 visa for temporary projects in specific scenarios. This option can be viable when an H-1B visa, typically used for specialty occupations, might be challenging to obtain." they may have still been in violation.
- christkv 1y ago
  There is a visa called a B1 in lieu of an H1B. Its for 6 months max and i have been on it.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

refurb 1y ago

If the US builds a plant in Korea, can it hire Americans hundreds to do the work? https://www.immigration.go.kr/immigration_eng/1852/subview.do https://www.immigration.go.kr/immigration_eng/1852/subview.d... Doesn't look like it. Several restrictions on how many (max 5) dependent upon the construction budget. If Korea selectively needs to bring over skilled workers, there are options. But hundreds?

fatbird 1y ago
To start up a factory and train local workers, eventually numbering thousands, in a new industrial process? Hundreds, easily.
- themaninthedark 1y ago
  Seems like they should have been on an L-B1 visa not a B1/B2 visa if that is what they were doing. "The L-1B nonimmigrant classification enables a U.S. employer to transfer a professional employee with specialized knowledge relating to the organization’s interests from one of its affiliated foreign offices to one of its offices in the United States. This classification also enables a foreign company that does not yet have an affiliated U.S. office to send a specialized knowledge employee to the United States to help establish one." https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/l-1b-intracompany-transferee-specialized-knowledge https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
  - christkv 1y ago
    There is also the B1 in lieu of an H1B
    - adrian_b 1y ago
      B1 is what these Koreans did have. B1 is very restricted in the kind of work that can be done and it is claimed that the Hyundai workers have violated the restrictions.
1y ago

andris9 1y ago

I once flew to the US for a week on ESTA to attend a few meetings (pre-COVID), but I mostly just did my regular developer work in the US office. By today’s standards, would I have been shackled for that?

ViewTrick1002 1y ago
Yes.
dbancajas 1y ago
If there's a photo op opportunity I'm sure you would be.
themaninthedark 1y ago
No: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/business.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/business... >A foreigner traveling to the United States to conduct temporary business must have a visitor visa (B) unless qualifying for entry under the Visa Waiver Program. Examples of temporary business include: Attending business meetings or consultations Attending a business convention or conference Negotiating contracts
- ViewTrick1002 1y ago
  The meeting is fine. The developer work is not.
  - themaninthedark 1y ago
    Right but the purpose of the trip was to attend the business meeting and the person on the trip was also conducting their regular duties as a developer as well. Attending meetings and conferences are rarely the main duties of an employee but they are the main purpose of trips. Similarly to how, if you go to Mexico on a Tourist Visa but answer a critical work phone call you would not be breaching the terms of your visa as the purpose of your trip is still vacation. However if you rent a house for 5 months and spend most of that time doing developer work, I think that the authorities there might be a little upset.

second_brekkie 1y ago

I happen to know someone well who works for a Korean Conglomerate building industrial/car batteries in the US. When you do construction work, or operate the production line it has to be done by American Labour. The visas they have only cover setup, repair and education of the production line. At that LG/Hyundai factory they were using Korean contractors for construction. So there was some breaking of the terms of the visa for at least some of the people. However, ICE didn't need to arrest everyone. All they needed to do was send a warning. These companies don't want the trouble, they would comply. Now you have many Koreans very upset. And people in my friends company are now scared to go to America even though they are management. It's not good for anyone, it's just so short sighted!

deleted 1y ago
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Workaccount2 1y ago
Authoritarians love strong message optics, for better or worse or much worse.
darth_avocado 1y ago
It used to be a wink wink agreement between the US and Korea. Yes, Korean companies break rules, but a lot of it tends to be directly related to the terms put in by the government. There’s milestones and deadlines that need to be met to ensure money gets released. But we all know what happens to construction projects here. There were some people definitely working on wrong visas. https://www.ft.com/content/c677b9aa-2e89-4feb-a56f-f3c8452b3674 https://www.ft.com/content/c677b9aa-2e89-4feb-a56f-f3c8452b3...
- dboreham 1y ago
  Anyone who has worked for a larger than mom and pop company outside the US, who has been sent to the US by their company for some reason knows that the legality of their presence and type of visa needed is top of mind. Triple so when the company is as large as Hyundai. For certain they retain a specialist US immigration law firm.

SilverElfin 1y ago

Maybe. But that doesn’t excuse Korean companies violating immigration laws. Union workers who reported this and invited the raid have reported that this was a tactic taken to avoid paying local workers.

deleted 1y ago
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scotty79 1y ago
Why would Hyundai trust the competence of local workers? If US workforce was competent enough to build battery factory they would have built it without Hyundai. It's not like US lacks money. It just lacks everything else, including competence and common sense. It was probably a tactic to get stuff done.
- jjani 1y ago
  Koreans and the Korean government would have zero time for that excuse if e.g. a Chinese company gives the exact same reasoning to violate visa laws in Korea.
  - ziftface 1y ago
    If a Chinese company was making a substantial investment in Korea, they would likely not be stupid enough to jeopardize the project over some paperwork.
    - jjani 1y ago
      The citizens would be very unlikely to view it that way, so they'd have to pray it doesn't hit the news.
  - maxglute 1y ago
    Of course they would, assuming typical dynamics. If Koreans (or anyone) WANTED something from someone else, especially technical investment they can't do themselves, they would move heaven and earth, including look the other way to "excuses" to facilitate. The issue is US wants via coercion / pressure due to strategic leverages US that has elsewhere on host of "partners". It's not typical courting for investment. US want others who are already reluctant to invest in US on US terms, even if the terms are onerous/broken i.e. the VISA system. US not making it easy, and in fact, unnecessarily hard for political theatre. Countries are investing in US because US took away carrots and added a lot of sticks, which is already different dynamic. Most countries that really want something from someone else has to play nice, give carrots and remove sticks. US/Trump admin thinks otherwise, and maybe it's in position to get away with it. Or maybe investors will bail regardless of how big the stick gets.

goku12 1y ago

The Koreans are so generous! I don't think that any other country would be so polite if they were humiliated like this [1] after they made such big investments in your country. I don't get the feeling that many in the US understand that you are the one at disadvantage when you disrespect your investors. Is it because the US has never faced a diplomatic backlash before? At the minimum, the aggrieved party would hold the rest of the investments hostage and force you into making major concessions. Anyway, the way ICE treats immigrants is going to cost the US dearly, both in monetary and in reputational terms. The US may not care much about the dignity of the foreigners, but their parent countries do. The charade about 'illegal immigrants' won't work anymore, because clearly that's not what's happening. It's like the foreigners are targeted to prove a political point to the domestic audience. ICE is acting like a rogue force and is really asking to be outlawed and sanctioned internationally. I want to see how long the rest of the world will remain restrained before they've had enough of the ICE abuse. [1] The news I got from a US source (don't remember which one) was that all of them except one were on valid temporary work visas to set up the plant and train the new US staff who would take over later. That one exception was also on a valid visa, but 'productive job' was not allowed. But he was there for training, so no violations there either.

Ray20 1y ago
> I want to see how long the rest of the world will remain restrained before they've had enough of the ICE abuse. The rest of the world will remain restrained indefinitely. Yes, populist politics requires voicing outrage at this, but otherwise this is more a good thing than a bad thing. Because salaries in the US in the real sector of the economy are often 5 times higher than even in other developed countries. So there is a huge drain of the best specialists to the US from all over the world. And no country wants to lose its best professionals.
- goku12 1y ago
  I believe that ICE's own actions will remedy that situation too.
GJim 1y ago
> I don't think that any other country would be so polite if they were humiliated like this Everyone is exercising diplomatic niceties [1]. However, we have all come to realise the USA can no longer be trusted as a good faith partner. The USA has even managed to piss off Canada. And lets be honest, you have got to work really hard to piss off the Canadians. [1] British subtlety at it's finest... official photos of His Majesty The King meeting Big Z, the latter appropriately dressed for meeting royalty. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-charles-king-the-king-prince-of-wales-b1058856.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-...

vuthery 1y ago

[flagged]

aussieguy1234 1y ago

I'll bet the North Korean government picks up the raid and uses it as propaganda on their state TV, as an example of "How americans treat koreans".

dandanua 1y ago

The boiled frog of American democracy has dissolved into a mess but people still think it is a thing.

southernplaces7 1y ago

A sad thing about these kinds of economic backfires through incompetent, ideological showboating is that Trump could order them in such a way that they utterly ruin the domestic economy, cause massive job losses and miseries for his blue collar base, and these people would still continue to support him while swallowing much of his blame game about the cause of the problems being something else even after years of suffering. People tend towards enormous ideological stickiness when admitting mistaken loyalty means feeling stupid for having condoned its excesses. I can't count the number of third world countries where local politicians, in power for decades sometimes, depend on exactly the above rules. They abuse their systems in the same ways, say similar lies to their supporters, and keep winning enough votes to stay in power for years or even decades. The same has been the case of certain democrat and republican party machines in major US cities that went utterly to shit across many election cycles in which the same ideological bases kept winning. It's just a shame that it has to happen at a national level now with similar results brewing.

sirmike_ 1y ago

Nope. South Korea can kick rocks.

Alex4386 1y ago

Anti-american party doing casual "america bad" speeches huh. Btw, its their fault for not filing proper VISAs. I don't get why there is all the nation-wide fiasco about LG Energy Solution incorrectly filing VISAs and asking government for help for their screw ups. *Note for anyone on Hackernews: hani is well-known as left-wing news outlet in Korea. Think about CNN, and take with grain of salt.