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The UK is becoming increasingly authoritarian in ways that feel increasingly antagonistic to the majority of the population, regardless of political party. Taxe

The UK is becoming increasingly authoritarian in ways that feel increasingly antagonistic to the majority of the population, regardless of political party. Taxes are rising (with tax take falling), crimes are going unchecked, just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up, but as GDP per capita continues to stall and even fall, the pressure it puts on services is a factor for many. And we're seeing those with a few quid to rub together leave, but as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income. On the NHS, I tried for years to push for improvements to switch to digital cancer screening invitations after they missed my mother (offering to build the software for free), which is now happening, but suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here. My sister who works in NHS DEI hasn't spoken to me since publishing a book on it. Every time someone with the finances, vision and ability leaves I think the situation gets a little bit worse, it increases the proportion of people remaining willing to put up with all of it. Anecdotally, many of my friends have already left, some of the older generation want to leave but feel tied in. My flight out is in 6 weeks. Good riddance, no doubt.

jerry1979 1y ago
Out of curiosity, where are people going?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- squidbeak 1y ago
  They aren't. The figures suggesting the rich are leaving come from Henley & Partners, who aren't impartial. Anecdotally, the loaded people I know are all still here and largely back up polling data that the rich tend to favour higher taxes on themselves.
piker 1y ago
> Every time someone with the finances, vision and ability leaves I think the situation gets a little bit worse, it increases the proportion of people remaining willing to put up with all of it. This is the issue.
dakiol 1y ago
[flagged]
oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
> as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" This is totally untrue. As long as it's selfish, unpatriotic people leaving, I couldn't care less what their skin color or sexual orientation is.
- modo_mario 1y ago
  Well if they are you're probably getting a greater amount of other selfish, unpatriotic people to replace them so idk if it's a net gain from your pov.
  - oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
    I doubt that's the case; people who want to live in a country are usually more patriotic than those who don't want to live in it, in my experience.
    - hardlianotion 1y ago
      What is your experience of this?
    - kortilla 1y ago
      Depends on why they are there. Refugees tend to care about the country they came from more and the one they landed in they view as a temporary shelter.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- cs02rm0 1y ago
  Patriotism is the only thing that's kept me here so long, despite what Emily Thornberry thinks of it. Selfish? I'll take that. I'm choosing to put the future of my children ahead of those who couldn't care less about them in any respect.
- canadiantim 1y ago
colinb 1y ago
I left around the time of Brexit so I have no useful opinion on the recent financial/admin state of the UK, though it seems from afar that austerity has done the place no favours. But... - this kind of authoritarian nonsense is just what Home Secretaries do. David Blunkett brought in RIP (then, to his very slight credit, changed his mind). Jack 'boot' Straw was famous for his I-AM-THE-LAWing. I don't think the Tories are any better. - No, criticizing the NHS is not against the religion there. The newspapers are forever getting in digs about long waits, unpopular (but perfectly rational) decision from NICE about what drugs to pay for, and junior doctors and their apparent insistence on being paid properly. - And with that in mind, having lived in three countries (four if you accept that the NHS in England and Scotland are different) I personally think the NHS is fucking fantastic. Someone close to me was diagnosed with a serious illness and immediately swept up in a production line of modern, effective treatment. Sure, it was somewhat impersonal, the biscuits are rubbish, and they were a widget on the production line, but they're also still alive ten years later, and we still have a house and savings. - kudos to your sister. The UK is an ethnically diverse place, one of the least racist and divided that I've seen, but - like everywhere else - imperfect. The NHS always seemed to me to be a reflection of what things could be elsewhere with doctors, nurses and cleaners hired from all over the world. [which reminds me that while the right-wing press hates the NHS for being free, the left wing press occasionally hates the NHS for bringing in medical staff from poorer parts of the world. They just can't win]
- cs02rm0 1y ago
  - No, criticizing the NHS is not against the religion there. The newspapers are forever getting in digs about long waits, unpopular (but perfectly rational) decision from NICE about what drugs to pay for, and junior doctors and their apparent insistence on being paid properly. This is exactly what I'm saying. The NHS are seen as perfect by some. All criticism is digs that are wrong. I'm pro-NHS. But this perspective that it's infallible is beyond all reality.
  - arethuza 1y ago
    "The NHS are seen as perfect by some" I've never met anyone who thinks that the NHS is perfect - least of all anyone who has used it or anyone who works there.
ignoramous 1y ago
> mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up Skilled immigration or the Channel crossing?
- Johnathanb 1y ago
  [dead]
- cs02rm0 1y ago
  Either, both.
- gadders 1y ago
  I don't think anyone objects to what the UK had 20 years ago - genuinely skilled immigration (in American terms, closer to O-1 than H1B). Unfortunately due to the Boris Wave, we got mass, unskilled legal migration. The channel crossings are a rounding error compared to that (but should be stopped as well).
  - throawaywpg 1y ago
    there was also a Trudeau wave here in Canada. Why did they all decide to start mass unskilled immigration then? Just to keep labour costs down?
    - gadders 1y ago
      Labour costs down and house prices up.
  - ManlyBread 1y ago
    >I don't think anyone objects to what the UK had 20 years ago - genuinely skilled immigration 20 years ago it was mostly Poles whose only quality was that they were willing to work for less than native UK citizens in jobs that said UK citizens supposedly did not want to do (which is doublespeak for businesses not wanting to pay a decent wage). This kind of immigration was one of the reasons Brexit happened.
scrollop 1y ago
"suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here." Errr, what? A lot of people complain about the NHS, whilst conceding there are issues that are difficult to address eg staff, lack of investment etc.
- everfrustrated 1y ago
  Complaining is the British pastime so complaining about the NHS is grandfathered in. However if you try and offer any suggestion for improvements to the NHS you soon realise you cannot criticise it in any meaningful form and be decried a blasphemous heretic.
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    Is your suggestion for improvement just privatization? Because that’d explain the backlash.
agentcoops 1y ago
I moved to the UK with my family just before the Brexit vote and left last year. I love the country, but the changes I saw over that time period were so stark -- and, similarly, so many of the friends I made in that time had already left the country. That I could have multiple negative NHS experiences relating to missed cancer diagnoses of friends in that relatively short span of time is suggestive of a real problem. The institution seemed to have less of an issue with elder care (in the US, the phantom menace posed by Obamacare or any governmental involvement in healthcare was meant to be "death panels" deciding the fate of grandparents) than with avoiding at all costs detecting potential long-term problems in the young. It's a 'rational' fear in the sense, as you note, that such cases put tremendous pressure on services, but there's no world where the best health outcome is refusing to screen your working age population.
- tim333 1y ago
  The NHS is cheap but quite ropey.
mijoharas 1y ago
> but suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here I don't know anyone that doesn't complain about the state of the NHS. The only time I've heard anyone defending it would be when compared to countries without national healthcare (e.g. America).
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  That's different. Yes, everyone complains about the state of the NHS but the "religion" is that the NHS may not be criticised itself. So it is in a bad state because it does not receive enough money, that's it, nothing else. Any suggestion that the organisation itself might be improved or, god forbid, that patients might pay is indeed usually seen as "blasphemy".
  - jampekka 1y ago
    > god forbid, that patients might pay is indeed usually seen as "blasphemy". There are policies that are wildly popular. Free public healthcare is one of such policies in many countries, and perhaps for a good reason.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - riv991 1y ago
    > So it is in a bad state because it does not receive enough money, that's it In real terms the budget is the largest it's ever been, it's a relic of the time when people worked and died shortly (a decade) after retiring, not when they live for 30+ years longer.
    - vidarh 1y ago
      It's still one of the cheapest healthcare systems among similarly wealthy countries per capita - it's seriously underfunded. To bring it to a comparable level to similarly wealthy countries would take an increase in funding of 20%-30%.
williamdclt 1y ago
> suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here That's really not my experience. In fact, almost everyone is surprised when I suggest that despite its many problems, the NHS does better for the people than most modern countries' health systems.
- graemep 1y ago
  I am certainly surprised by that suggestion. No one I know who has lived in France or Germany or any developed country other than the US thinks the NHS is better than the systems in those countries.
  - poszlem 1y ago
    If it were only France or Germany, it wouldn't be as bad. I returned to Poland after almost 15 years in the UK, and despite our health service being an absolute shambles, I still prefer it to the NHS.
  - pyman 1y ago
    I've heard from Spanish friends living in the UK that the NHS is so bad, they fly back to Spain for medical checks and even to see the dentist. That's mind blowing.
    - winterismute 1y ago
      Living in the UK but being from another EU country, I definitely see that happening. However, a lot of times it is just due to habits, wrongly-placed mistrust, or not being well settled-in yet because, at the end of the day, there are eg. better GPs and worse GPs everywhere in the world, but if you are still "new" to the country you simply do not know which ones are which, so you prefer to go to the ones you know already.
      - pyman 1y ago
        Makes sense. I'm not entirely sure if the UK has a public-private health system. What I do know is that companies offer private health insurance, even though everyone has access to the NHS. That suggests there's a private system in place, one that probably attracts the most experienced and competent doctors and GPs?
kypro 1y ago
> just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up This significantly underplays the situation here. The UK state views "anti-migrant" views as extreme: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/26/elite-police-unit-to-monitor-online-critics-of-migrants/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/26/elite-police... In the UK attending a protest against putting illegal immigrants from Afghanistan in a hotel by your kids school is likely to have you on a watch list or arrested. This might not sound that bad to our European friends, but you guys in the US might be quite surprised to hear this. It's not just "right-wing" positions which are dealt like this either, I should note for legal reasons that I strongly disagree with the actions and views of "Palestine Action", but arrests of peaceful protestors who simply wish to voice support of them as a group (without actually being part of the group themselves) is in my mind absurd. It's one thing to make membership of the group illegal, but to also make debating that judgement illegal is highly problematic in my mind. For those interested you'll find videos of the police arresting elderly women for terror charges for simply peacefully voicing their opinions on Palestine Action. It's vile.
- nsteel 1y ago
  Are you referring to https://archive.is/HgLRj https://archive.is/HgLRj ? Your summary is poor.
  - kypro 1y ago
    No? I linked what I was referring to... The UK government has announced a new "squad" who will check social media for anti-migrant sentiment. Even if you are not "anti-migration" (whatever that means), I think we can agree that opposing migration is still a valid opinion to hold in a democratic society.
    - nsteel 1y ago
      Sorry, you are right, I missed it somehow. Still isn't correct, though. Detectives will be drawn from forces across the country to take part in a new investigations unit that will flag up early signs of potential civil unrest. The division, assembled by the Home Office, will aim to “maximise social media intelligence” gathering after police forces were criticised over their response to last year’s riots. ... “This team will provide a national capability to monitor social media intelligence and advise on its use to inform local operational decision-making. “This will be a dedicated function at a national level for exploiting internet intelligence to help local forces manage public safety threats and risks. Some might say that's a sensible thing to do in 2025. Others, might spin it another way to fuel their immigration-focused political agenda. The quotes from the Tory and Farage are painful.
alextingle 1y ago
[flagged]
- wsintra2022 1y ago
  But… you have discrepancies like the town of Middlesbrough , a small North Yorkshire town with crime rates on par with large European cities and rampant poverty and drug abuse with no clear way out because no one seems willing to invest in the once infant Hercules.
  - nemomarx 1y ago
    I hear about the North turning into a kind of rust belt as the population concentrates around London. I'm not sure how you solve that in a finance centered economy with no local industry - small towns are struggling across the developed world for similar reasons.
    - graublau 1y ago
      Interesting how Westminster has taken the "don't get mad online though" approach given the challenges you highlight.
      - nemomarx 1y ago
        Also second hand from British friends but the current leadership seems really weird to me. Went back on their election pledges, tacking this way and that for something to do to raise poll numbers. It doesn't fit together as a strategy to me and I don't see it fixing the economy, but I guess they can talk about it as a success?
        graublau 1y ago
        The British political class has been collapsing for decades. The population just flip-flops between completely awful unpalatable options, Starmer is just reheated third way Blairism. Brits aren't this stupid and they want optimistic view of future not go on the war path or austerity. They will slowly cycle out this historical group of parties resulting in painful economic results and poor social cohesion nationally.
areoform 1y ago
> Taxes are rising (with tax take falling) > just mentioning increased immigration One of these seems like the solution to the other. > as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income Having UK work experience and having talked to thousands of british folks over a decade, I find this hard to believe. I started working with folks from the UK right at the start when social media really took off, and I personally think that what ails the UK is the same as what ails the world. Too much social media. The UK has always been an empire in decline, but the wheels didn't come off until everyone became glued to feeds. It's Garbage In, Garbage Out. If your view of reality is driven by stuff that you see online, it's a distorted lens which then leads to distorted decision making that then leads to authoritarian creep. Just my 2¢.
- winterismute 1y ago
  I always thought linking all the main things not working in the actual world to the alienation caused by too much digital consumption to be wrong/not really making sense. However, gradually, I am getting closer and closer to that conclusion... In your case, what brought you to the stance "Too much social media is what ails the whole world"? What do you think we could do to solve it?
  - throawaywpg 1y ago
    Get people hooked on local solutions and local social networks that exist "IRL."
    - winterismute 1y ago
      Ok, but how could we do that? Especially since thing like eg. work is moving little by little but more and more towards remote...
      - throawaywpg 1y ago
        organize things offline. political stuff, social stuff, hobbies, exercise. The things that people want, that online life isn't providing. I can't see another option other than waiting until tech is so commonplace that the advances don't interest people anymore.
Arkhaine_kupo 1y ago
There is an old irish song called "The man of the daily mail", I think they could use your views to update the song for our times.
throawaywpg 1y ago
Why stay in a declining 1st word country when you can move to Bulgaria and live like a king?
- EB-Barrington 1y ago
  [dead]
nixgeek 1y ago
Where do you see people leaving heading towards? What’s your emigration destination? It seems like most countries have their challenges and I’m curious where people who have inevitably done more research than me are landing, literally!
- bonestamp2 1y ago
  I was going to ask the same thing and I hope they answer. I can't speak for OP but I can report on what I'm seeing... I know a lot of British, Canadian, and Australian expats that have moved to California in the past 5-15 years. Why? Healthcare is probably everyone's first concern, but expats tend to be well educated successful people who can afford excellent healthcare... I'm an expat from a different country and seeing the top end of the healthcare facilities in the States is a luxury experience compared to national healthcare where I'm from. I wish everyone here had access to that, but at least poor people in California do have access to state healthcare. Politics is a shit show, and has gotten worse recently of course, but that's true in a lot of places now and everyone I know came in before the most recent decline. I know a couple of families who have gone back to their countries, but all of them went back because they wanted to be close to family again, but none of them left because they didn't like it here. Across everyone I know, the main appeals for coming to California seem to be weather and lower taxes than their home country. Cost of living is similar to many of the big cities in the countries I mentioned above. I'm not suggesting America is a better place, that's a different calculation for everyone, just reporting on what I'm seeing.
- cs02rm0 1y ago
  Personally I've known people moving to Portugal, Malta, Cyprus, Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain, the US, Singapore. There's obviously a variety of factors that go into the choices people make and certainly no perfect choice. For me, it'll be the UAE. Instinctively, some people will probably attack that choice, which is fine. I've lived in the Middle East previously, it's not perfect to say the least and I have some personal history with that, but I understand the choice I'm making. One thing people won't like is the headline tax rate, but I probably won't come out ahead there initially as cost of living is quite high - it'll cost me about USD 70k just to put three kids in school. Accommodation is also quite expensive, private healthcare also needs paying for, but at least you get what you pay for then. Where the tax situation is appealing though is that then I'll be incentivised to earn more beyond those high living costs, where I just don't feel I am in the UK. Sun and swimming works for me too. Job adverts there are absolutely rammed with literally thousands of applicants and I'm hearing from recruiters that a lot of people from the UK and wider Europe are trying to head in the same direction. I'll be working for myself though. I likely won't see out my days there. I'd imagine we'll retire to somewhere on the Med, my wife would prefer NZ but I don't think that works for me. The US is perhaps desirable, but it seems quite hard for a Brit to get into unless they happen to have a job with a company there. We'll have to see.
janosch_123 1y ago
> My flight out is in 6 weeks Where are you going?
immibis 1y ago
[flagged]
tim333 1y ago
We had talented people piling in and GDP going up and all that pre Brexit. It's the gift that keeps giving.
- bonestamp2 1y ago
  Is there enough support to reverse brexit (yet)?
  - teamonkey 1y ago
    With the general public, yes. With politicians, no. It’s also not entirely up to the UK, the EU has to be convinced about the seriousness of such a decision and how it would benefit them.
wnevets 1y ago
> The UK is becoming increasingly authoritarian in ways that feel increasingly antagonistic to the majority of the population, regardless of political party. Taxes are rising (with tax take falling), crimes are going unchecked, just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up, but as GDP per capita continues to stall and even fall, the pressure it puts on services is a factor for many. And we're seeing those with a few quid to rub together leave, but as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income. Have they though about joining some sort of economic union, maybe one with like minded countries that share the same continent?
- preisschild 1y ago
  some sort of an European Union?
  - graublau 1y ago
    perhaps they voted on this in a sort of Brexit? Stop being coy
- pembrook 1y ago
  So if we’ve agreed with OPs assessment that the problem in the UK is the government attempting to seize more power…how will becoming subjects of yet another government body that is even more powerful and less beholden to the people…help things? The EU might be better on digital privacy right now, however the emotional winds of the political mob change often and many people in EU government feel differently. The EU is also an aging population of technologically illiterate and immigrant-afraid retirees. I wouldn’t expect much different coming from them in the future.
  - wnevets 1y ago
    > So if we’ve agreed with OPs assessment that the problem in the UK is the government attempting to seize more power Most of the OP's assessment that I quoted is about the UKs failing economics
harvey9 1y ago
The resistance to innovation in the screening invitations is more down to empire building by low-talent management than to the NHS 'religion'. Dr Ben Goldacre wrote a memorable X thread on a closely related topic some years ago.
uxcolumbo 1y ago
Which countries would you recommend to move to? Isn't the cost of living crisis and rising wealth inequalities a problem that many western countries face?
- cs02rm0 1y ago
  It's hard to recommend anywhere generically, there's so many facets to it and it depends what you're trying to get out of life. Cost of living and wealth inequalities aren't key concerns for me personally. It's more quality of life for my family, safety and economic opportunity.
cjbgkagh 1y ago
This mirrors my experience of the UK. A dysfunctional country whose wheels were slowly falling off and now not so slowly. I’m generally pro devolution but in the UKs case their political class is so god awful that giving them more power didn’t seem to be a good idea. I left for greener pastures a long time ago and subsequently all of my friends and anyone I knew of any talent has also left, it feels weird visiting a place I once called home and not being able to see friends.
zaptheimpaler 1y ago
The worst part is I don't see really any western country that's not in decline at the moment. Seeing the "surrender"'s from EU and other countries on tariffs makes me feel so bad. It's like there is no place in the world that's socially and economically strong anymore. The US remains economically strong at least, but they're now run by bullies. Even so, I see people all over the world leaving to immigrate to the US. Canada has the same growing cynicism and economic troubles and emigration, maybe less of a police state though. We're all just pathetic vassals to the US now.
ujkiolp 1y ago
> just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up okay what are you implying tho?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tengwar2 1y ago
No-one thinks the NHS is perfect. People are rationally defensive of it because the most likely alternative is not something like the German system (which is better, but has major problems) but a sale of the NHS to an American company such as Kaiser Permanente. Most people are well aware of the deeply rooted problems of the American system, and recognise that almost anything is better than that. Any systematic change would require a government which is trusted to handle it. That rules out the Conservatives (who are in power most of the time) as even their supporters don't trust them on this issue, and Labour is unlikely to either have the inclination to implement deep changes, or be in office long enough to effect them.
- tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
  It's funny -- in the US, the liberals who want to nationalize healthcare look at the UK and EU as a shining example of success. The grass is always greener I suppose.
bossyTeacher 1y ago
> but as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income. Your comment was mostly on point until you decided to put straight presenting white guys as the victims
nailer 1y ago
The funny thing is that NHS doctors want the money that doctors get in Australia, which is… a market rate.
msie 1y ago
Who said good riddance? Maybe they thought good riddance to racist privileged white people.
- DaSHacka 1y ago
  > Who said good riddance? Sounds like you...
nabwodahs 1y ago
[dead]
lisbbb 1y ago
And to what promised land are you headed, might I inquire?
mollymoffit 1y ago
You missed out the housing!! How local authorities who issue notices of bankruptcy while in the background buying up properties at full retail market prices. Knocking up rental prices beyond affordability. Shoplifting increasing costs of living on top of the large supermarkets profiteering since covid. Slum lords offered a guaranteed rents for a 5 year Contracts including the maintenance and any works required to bring it up to standard of conditions. To house illegal migrants, while these previously extremely poor housing our citizens was and still are forced to live in. Well not for long as no fault evictions are forcing these tenants out of their home. So shady and greedy slum lords can take full advantage of this home office offer , LL are rubbing their filthy hand's together

jerry1979 1y ago

Out of curiosity, where are people going?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
squidbeak 1y ago
They aren't. The figures suggesting the rich are leaving come from Henley & Partners, who aren't impartial. Anecdotally, the loaded people I know are all still here and largely back up polling data that the rich tend to favour higher taxes on themselves.

piker 1y ago

> Every time someone with the finances, vision and ability leaves I think the situation gets a little bit worse, it increases the proportion of people remaining willing to put up with all of it. This is the issue.

dakiol 1y ago

[flagged]

oneeyedpigeon 1y ago

> as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" This is totally untrue. As long as it's selfish, unpatriotic people leaving, I couldn't care less what their skin color or sexual orientation is.

modo_mario 1y ago
Well if they are you're probably getting a greater amount of other selfish, unpatriotic people to replace them so idk if it's a net gain from your pov.
- oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
  I doubt that's the case; people who want to live in a country are usually more patriotic than those who don't want to live in it, in my experience.
  - hardlianotion 1y ago
    What is your experience of this?
  - kortilla 1y ago
    Depends on why they are there. Refugees tend to care about the country they came from more and the one they landed in they view as a temporary shelter.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
cs02rm0 1y ago
Patriotism is the only thing that's kept me here so long, despite what Emily Thornberry thinks of it. Selfish? I'll take that. I'm choosing to put the future of my children ahead of those who couldn't care less about them in any respect.
canadiantim 1y ago

colinb 1y ago

I left around the time of Brexit so I have no useful opinion on the recent financial/admin state of the UK, though it seems from afar that austerity has done the place no favours. But... - this kind of authoritarian nonsense is just what Home Secretaries do. David Blunkett brought in RIP (then, to his very slight credit, changed his mind). Jack 'boot' Straw was famous for his I-AM-THE-LAWing. I don't think the Tories are any better. - No, criticizing the NHS is not against the religion there. The newspapers are forever getting in digs about long waits, unpopular (but perfectly rational) decision from NICE about what drugs to pay for, and junior doctors and their apparent insistence on being paid properly. - And with that in mind, having lived in three countries (four if you accept that the NHS in England and Scotland are different) I personally think the NHS is fucking fantastic. Someone close to me was diagnosed with a serious illness and immediately swept up in a production line of modern, effective treatment. Sure, it was somewhat impersonal, the biscuits are rubbish, and they were a widget on the production line, but they're also still alive ten years later, and we still have a house and savings. - kudos to your sister. The UK is an ethnically diverse place, one of the least racist and divided that I've seen, but - like everywhere else - imperfect. The NHS always seemed to me to be a reflection of what things could be elsewhere with doctors, nurses and cleaners hired from all over the world. [which reminds me that while the right-wing press hates the NHS for being free, the left wing press occasionally hates the NHS for bringing in medical staff from poorer parts of the world. They just can't win]

cs02rm0 1y ago
- No, criticizing the NHS is not against the religion there. The newspapers are forever getting in digs about long waits, unpopular (but perfectly rational) decision from NICE about what drugs to pay for, and junior doctors and their apparent insistence on being paid properly. This is exactly what I'm saying. The NHS are seen as perfect by some. All criticism is digs that are wrong. I'm pro-NHS. But this perspective that it's infallible is beyond all reality.
- arethuza 1y ago
  "The NHS are seen as perfect by some" I've never met anyone who thinks that the NHS is perfect - least of all anyone who has used it or anyone who works there.

ignoramous 1y ago

> mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up Skilled immigration or the Channel crossing?

Johnathanb 1y ago
[dead]
cs02rm0 1y ago
Either, both.
gadders 1y ago
I don't think anyone objects to what the UK had 20 years ago - genuinely skilled immigration (in American terms, closer to O-1 than H1B). Unfortunately due to the Boris Wave, we got mass, unskilled legal migration. The channel crossings are a rounding error compared to that (but should be stopped as well).
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  there was also a Trudeau wave here in Canada. Why did they all decide to start mass unskilled immigration then? Just to keep labour costs down?
  - gadders 1y ago
    Labour costs down and house prices up.
- ManlyBread 1y ago
  >I don't think anyone objects to what the UK had 20 years ago - genuinely skilled immigration 20 years ago it was mostly Poles whose only quality was that they were willing to work for less than native UK citizens in jobs that said UK citizens supposedly did not want to do (which is doublespeak for businesses not wanting to pay a decent wage). This kind of immigration was one of the reasons Brexit happened.

scrollop 1y ago

"suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here." Errr, what? A lot of people complain about the NHS, whilst conceding there are issues that are difficult to address eg staff, lack of investment etc.

everfrustrated 1y ago
Complaining is the British pastime so complaining about the NHS is grandfathered in. However if you try and offer any suggestion for improvements to the NHS you soon realise you cannot criticise it in any meaningful form and be decried a blasphemous heretic.
- kennywinker 1y ago
  Is your suggestion for improvement just privatization? Because that’d explain the backlash.

agentcoops 1y ago

I moved to the UK with my family just before the Brexit vote and left last year. I love the country, but the changes I saw over that time period were so stark -- and, similarly, so many of the friends I made in that time had already left the country. That I could have multiple negative NHS experiences relating to missed cancer diagnoses of friends in that relatively short span of time is suggestive of a real problem. The institution seemed to have less of an issue with elder care (in the US, the phantom menace posed by Obamacare or any governmental involvement in healthcare was meant to be "death panels" deciding the fate of grandparents) than with avoiding at all costs detecting potential long-term problems in the young. It's a 'rational' fear in the sense, as you note, that such cases put tremendous pressure on services, but there's no world where the best health outcome is refusing to screen your working age population.

tim333 1y ago
The NHS is cheap but quite ropey.

mijoharas 1y ago

> but suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here I don't know anyone that doesn't complain about the state of the NHS. The only time I've heard anyone defending it would be when compared to countries without national healthcare (e.g. America).

mytailorisrich 1y ago
That's different. Yes, everyone complains about the state of the NHS but the "religion" is that the NHS may not be criticised itself. So it is in a bad state because it does not receive enough money, that's it, nothing else. Any suggestion that the organisation itself might be improved or, god forbid, that patients might pay is indeed usually seen as "blasphemy".
- jampekka 1y ago
  > god forbid, that patients might pay is indeed usually seen as "blasphemy". There are policies that are wildly popular. Free public healthcare is one of such policies in many countries, and perhaps for a good reason.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- riv991 1y ago
  > So it is in a bad state because it does not receive enough money, that's it In real terms the budget is the largest it's ever been, it's a relic of the time when people worked and died shortly (a decade) after retiring, not when they live for 30+ years longer.
  - vidarh 1y ago
    It's still one of the cheapest healthcare systems among similarly wealthy countries per capita - it's seriously underfunded. To bring it to a comparable level to similarly wealthy countries would take an increase in funding of 20%-30%.

williamdclt 1y ago

> suggesting the NHS isn't perfect is against the religion here That's really not my experience. In fact, almost everyone is surprised when I suggest that despite its many problems, the NHS does better for the people than most modern countries' health systems.

graemep 1y ago
I am certainly surprised by that suggestion. No one I know who has lived in France or Germany or any developed country other than the US thinks the NHS is better than the systems in those countries.
- poszlem 1y ago
  If it were only France or Germany, it wouldn't be as bad. I returned to Poland after almost 15 years in the UK, and despite our health service being an absolute shambles, I still prefer it to the NHS.
- pyman 1y ago
  I've heard from Spanish friends living in the UK that the NHS is so bad, they fly back to Spain for medical checks and even to see the dentist. That's mind blowing.
  - winterismute 1y ago
    Living in the UK but being from another EU country, I definitely see that happening. However, a lot of times it is just due to habits, wrongly-placed mistrust, or not being well settled-in yet because, at the end of the day, there are eg. better GPs and worse GPs everywhere in the world, but if you are still "new" to the country you simply do not know which ones are which, so you prefer to go to the ones you know already.
    - pyman 1y ago
      Makes sense. I'm not entirely sure if the UK has a public-private health system. What I do know is that companies offer private health insurance, even though everyone has access to the NHS. That suggests there's a private system in place, one that probably attracts the most experienced and competent doctors and GPs?

kypro 1y ago

> just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up This significantly underplays the situation here. The UK state views "anti-migrant" views as extreme: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/26/elite-police-unit-to-monitor-online-critics-of-migrants/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/26/elite-police... In the UK attending a protest against putting illegal immigrants from Afghanistan in a hotel by your kids school is likely to have you on a watch list or arrested. This might not sound that bad to our European friends, but you guys in the US might be quite surprised to hear this. It's not just "right-wing" positions which are dealt like this either, I should note for legal reasons that I strongly disagree with the actions and views of "Palestine Action", but arrests of peaceful protestors who simply wish to voice support of them as a group (without actually being part of the group themselves) is in my mind absurd. It's one thing to make membership of the group illegal, but to also make debating that judgement illegal is highly problematic in my mind. For those interested you'll find videos of the police arresting elderly women for terror charges for simply peacefully voicing their opinions on Palestine Action. It's vile.

nsteel 1y ago
Are you referring to https://archive.is/HgLRj https://archive.is/HgLRj ? Your summary is poor.
- kypro 1y ago
  No? I linked what I was referring to... The UK government has announced a new "squad" who will check social media for anti-migrant sentiment. Even if you are not "anti-migration" (whatever that means), I think we can agree that opposing migration is still a valid opinion to hold in a democratic society.
  - nsteel 1y ago
    Sorry, you are right, I missed it somehow. Still isn't correct, though. Detectives will be drawn from forces across the country to take part in a new investigations unit that will flag up early signs of potential civil unrest. The division, assembled by the Home Office, will aim to “maximise social media intelligence” gathering after police forces were criticised over their response to last year’s riots. ... “This team will provide a national capability to monitor social media intelligence and advise on its use to inform local operational decision-making. “This will be a dedicated function at a national level for exploiting internet intelligence to help local forces manage public safety threats and risks. Some might say that's a sensible thing to do in 2025. Others, might spin it another way to fuel their immigration-focused political agenda. The quotes from the Tory and Farage are painful.

alextingle 1y ago

[flagged]

wsintra2022 1y ago
But… you have discrepancies like the town of Middlesbrough , a small North Yorkshire town with crime rates on par with large European cities and rampant poverty and drug abuse with no clear way out because no one seems willing to invest in the once infant Hercules.
- nemomarx 1y ago
  I hear about the North turning into a kind of rust belt as the population concentrates around London. I'm not sure how you solve that in a finance centered economy with no local industry - small towns are struggling across the developed world for similar reasons.
  - graublau 1y ago
    Interesting how Westminster has taken the "don't get mad online though" approach given the challenges you highlight.
    - nemomarx 1y ago
      Also second hand from British friends but the current leadership seems really weird to me. Went back on their election pledges, tacking this way and that for something to do to raise poll numbers. It doesn't fit together as a strategy to me and I don't see it fixing the economy, but I guess they can talk about it as a success?
      - graublau 1y ago
        The British political class has been collapsing for decades. The population just flip-flops between completely awful unpalatable options, Starmer is just reheated third way Blairism. Brits aren't this stupid and they want optimistic view of future not go on the war path or austerity. They will slowly cycle out this historical group of parties resulting in painful economic results and poor social cohesion nationally.

areoform 1y ago

> Taxes are rising (with tax take falling) > just mentioning increased immigration One of these seems like the solution to the other. > as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income Having UK work experience and having talked to thousands of british folks over a decade, I find this hard to believe. I started working with folks from the UK right at the start when social media really took off, and I personally think that what ails the UK is the same as what ails the world. Too much social media. The UK has always been an empire in decline, but the wheels didn't come off until everyone became glued to feeds. It's Garbage In, Garbage Out. If your view of reality is driven by stuff that you see online, it's a distorted lens which then leads to distorted decision making that then leads to authoritarian creep. Just my 2¢.

winterismute 1y ago
I always thought linking all the main things not working in the actual world to the alienation caused by too much digital consumption to be wrong/not really making sense. However, gradually, I am getting closer and closer to that conclusion... In your case, what brought you to the stance "Too much social media is what ails the whole world"? What do you think we could do to solve it?
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  Get people hooked on local solutions and local social networks that exist "IRL."
  - winterismute 1y ago
    Ok, but how could we do that? Especially since thing like eg. work is moving little by little but more and more towards remote...
    - throawaywpg 1y ago
      organize things offline. political stuff, social stuff, hobbies, exercise. The things that people want, that online life isn't providing. I can't see another option other than waiting until tech is so commonplace that the advances don't interest people anymore.

Arkhaine_kupo 1y ago

There is an old irish song called "The man of the daily mail", I think they could use your views to update the song for our times.

throawaywpg 1y ago

Why stay in a declining 1st word country when you can move to Bulgaria and live like a king?

EB-Barrington 1y ago
[dead]

nixgeek 1y ago

Where do you see people leaving heading towards? What’s your emigration destination? It seems like most countries have their challenges and I’m curious where people who have inevitably done more research than me are landing, literally!

bonestamp2 1y ago
I was going to ask the same thing and I hope they answer. I can't speak for OP but I can report on what I'm seeing... I know a lot of British, Canadian, and Australian expats that have moved to California in the past 5-15 years. Why? Healthcare is probably everyone's first concern, but expats tend to be well educated successful people who can afford excellent healthcare... I'm an expat from a different country and seeing the top end of the healthcare facilities in the States is a luxury experience compared to national healthcare where I'm from. I wish everyone here had access to that, but at least poor people in California do have access to state healthcare. Politics is a shit show, and has gotten worse recently of course, but that's true in a lot of places now and everyone I know came in before the most recent decline. I know a couple of families who have gone back to their countries, but all of them went back because they wanted to be close to family again, but none of them left because they didn't like it here. Across everyone I know, the main appeals for coming to California seem to be weather and lower taxes than their home country. Cost of living is similar to many of the big cities in the countries I mentioned above. I'm not suggesting America is a better place, that's a different calculation for everyone, just reporting on what I'm seeing.
cs02rm0 1y ago
Personally I've known people moving to Portugal, Malta, Cyprus, Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain, the US, Singapore. There's obviously a variety of factors that go into the choices people make and certainly no perfect choice. For me, it'll be the UAE. Instinctively, some people will probably attack that choice, which is fine. I've lived in the Middle East previously, it's not perfect to say the least and I have some personal history with that, but I understand the choice I'm making. One thing people won't like is the headline tax rate, but I probably won't come out ahead there initially as cost of living is quite high - it'll cost me about USD 70k just to put three kids in school. Accommodation is also quite expensive, private healthcare also needs paying for, but at least you get what you pay for then. Where the tax situation is appealing though is that then I'll be incentivised to earn more beyond those high living costs, where I just don't feel I am in the UK. Sun and swimming works for me too. Job adverts there are absolutely rammed with literally thousands of applicants and I'm hearing from recruiters that a lot of people from the UK and wider Europe are trying to head in the same direction. I'll be working for myself though. I likely won't see out my days there. I'd imagine we'll retire to somewhere on the Med, my wife would prefer NZ but I don't think that works for me. The US is perhaps desirable, but it seems quite hard for a Brit to get into unless they happen to have a job with a company there. We'll have to see.

janosch_123 1y ago

> My flight out is in 6 weeks Where are you going?

immibis 1y ago

[flagged]

tim333 1y ago

We had talented people piling in and GDP going up and all that pre Brexit. It's the gift that keeps giving.

bonestamp2 1y ago
Is there enough support to reverse brexit (yet)?
- teamonkey 1y ago
  With the general public, yes. With politicians, no. It’s also not entirely up to the UK, the EU has to be convinced about the seriousness of such a decision and how it would benefit them.

wnevets 1y ago

> The UK is becoming increasingly authoritarian in ways that feel increasingly antagonistic to the majority of the population, regardless of political party. Taxes are rising (with tax take falling), crimes are going unchecked, just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up, but as GDP per capita continues to stall and even fall, the pressure it puts on services is a factor for many. And we're seeing those with a few quid to rub together leave, but as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income. Have they though about joining some sort of economic union, maybe one with like minded countries that share the same continent?

preisschild 1y ago
some sort of an European Union?
- graublau 1y ago
  perhaps they voted on this in a sort of Brexit? Stop being coy
pembrook 1y ago
So if we’ve agreed with OPs assessment that the problem in the UK is the government attempting to seize more power…how will becoming subjects of yet another government body that is even more powerful and less beholden to the people…help things? The EU might be better on digital privacy right now, however the emotional winds of the political mob change often and many people in EU government feel differently. The EU is also an aging population of technologically illiterate and immigrant-afraid retirees. I wouldn’t expect much different coming from them in the future.
- wnevets 1y ago
  > So if we’ve agreed with OPs assessment that the problem in the UK is the government attempting to seize more power Most of the OP's assessment that I quoted is about the UKs failing economics

harvey9 1y ago

The resistance to innovation in the screening invitations is more down to empire building by low-talent management than to the NHS 'religion'. Dr Ben Goldacre wrote a memorable X thread on a closely related topic some years ago.

uxcolumbo 1y ago

Which countries would you recommend to move to? Isn't the cost of living crisis and rising wealth inequalities a problem that many western countries face?

cs02rm0 1y ago
It's hard to recommend anywhere generically, there's so many facets to it and it depends what you're trying to get out of life. Cost of living and wealth inequalities aren't key concerns for me personally. It's more quality of life for my family, safety and economic opportunity.

cjbgkagh 1y ago

This mirrors my experience of the UK. A dysfunctional country whose wheels were slowly falling off and now not so slowly. I’m generally pro devolution but in the UKs case their political class is so god awful that giving them more power didn’t seem to be a good idea. I left for greener pastures a long time ago and subsequently all of my friends and anyone I knew of any talent has also left, it feels weird visiting a place I once called home and not being able to see friends.

zaptheimpaler 1y ago

The worst part is I don't see really any western country that's not in decline at the moment. Seeing the "surrender"'s from EU and other countries on tariffs makes me feel so bad. It's like there is no place in the world that's socially and economically strong anymore. The US remains economically strong at least, but they're now run by bullies. Even so, I see people all over the world leaving to immigrate to the US. Canada has the same growing cynicism and economic troubles and emigration, maybe less of a police state though. We're all just pathetic vassals to the US now.

ujkiolp 1y ago

> just mentioning increased immigration gets a lot of people's backs up okay what are you implying tho?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

tengwar2 1y ago

No-one thinks the NHS is perfect. People are rationally defensive of it because the most likely alternative is not something like the German system (which is better, but has major problems) but a sale of the NHS to an American company such as Kaiser Permanente. Most people are well aware of the deeply rooted problems of the American system, and recognise that almost anything is better than that. Any systematic change would require a government which is trusted to handle it. That rules out the Conservatives (who are in power most of the time) as even their supporters don't trust them on this issue, and Labour is unlikely to either have the inclination to implement deep changes, or be in office long enough to effect them.

tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
It's funny -- in the US, the liberals who want to nationalize healthcare look at the UK and EU as a shining example of success. The grass is always greener I suppose.

bossyTeacher 1y ago

> but as long as those people leaving are straight, white males, or their families, they're being told "good riddance" regardless of the brain drain and loss of tax income. Your comment was mostly on point until you decided to put straight presenting white guys as the victims

nailer 1y ago

The funny thing is that NHS doctors want the money that doctors get in Australia, which is… a market rate.

msie 1y ago

Who said good riddance? Maybe they thought good riddance to racist privileged white people.

DaSHacka 1y ago
> Who said good riddance? Sounds like you...

nabwodahs 1y ago

[dead]

lisbbb 1y ago

And to what promised land are you headed, might I inquire?

mollymoffit 1y ago

You missed out the housing!! How local authorities who issue notices of bankruptcy while in the background buying up properties at full retail market prices. Knocking up rental prices beyond affordability. Shoplifting increasing costs of living on top of the large supermarkets profiteering since covid. Slum lords offered a guaranteed rents for a 5 year Contracts including the maintenance and any works required to bring it up to standard of conditions. To house illegal migrants, while these previously extremely poor housing our citizens was and still are forced to live in. Well not for long as no fault evictions are forcing these tenants out of their home. So shady and greedy slum lords can take full advantage of this home office offer , LL are rubbing their filthy hand's together