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Grok 4 Launch [video]
- raspasov 1y agoGrok has consistently been one of the best models I've used for deep research (no API use). Grok 4 looks even more promising.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago> deep research Can you say what you mean by deep research?
- repsak 1y agoAgent that browses the web, analyzes information, and creates reports. Grok calls it DeepSearch. Similar to gemini/openai deep research. https://x.ai/news/grok-3#grok-agents-combining-reasoning-and-tool-use https://x.ai/news/grok-3#grok-agents-combining-reasoning-and...
- nashadelic 1y agoIt's an agentic research mode, grounded with links from the web that reduce or eliminate hallucinations. The results is a very detailed, sometimes 50 page output. Very useful if you're trying to understand a new industry, state-of-the-art on a tech etc.
- spaceman_2020 1y agoGrok's Twitter integration has legitimately been one of the best use cases I've seen. Just being able to ask Grok right within the tweet about context or meaning of any jargon is very useful.
- archagon 1y agoParticularly useful if you’re an antisemite or white supremacist, it seems.
- falleng0d 1y ago[flagged]
- dataangel 1y agoIt's not word salad, Grok was literally posting unironic praise for Hitler two days ago.
- mgoetzke 1y agoLLMs can be baited, small changes to system prompts can cause this quite unexpectedly just like many big companies found out by accident. we fix it and move on.
- grafmax 1y agoFirst off, if you change something as an engineer you are responsible for testing it before deploying it to production. Besides they intentionally changed the system prompt to make it more politically incorrect. (It’s because they hold a unnuanced ideology that conflates political incorrectness with objectivity - thus it’s logical that Grok is going to slide into racism.) In any case their stupidity on multiple fronts doesn’t deserve a free pass.
- Treegarden 1y agoIt was but so were other models before. OP said the twitter to grok feature is a good use case and I agree. Its great for fact checking. For example it will debunk conspiracy theories and misinformation tweets in general. I even asked it about its own hitler meltdown and it rejected its own words (so I must have asked it after they fixed it).
- Levitz 1y agoIt was also stating that the life of a single Jew is worth more than that of two million non-Jews. LLMs can occasionally say crazy stuff, that is not surprising, and I think we should do better than leaning into the outrage machine. The opposite is how we end up with ridiculous guardrails, like having ChatGPT say that it would rather allow all of humanity to perish than to say the N word, a statement which is orders of magnitude worse, only more publicly palatable.
- saagarjha 1y ago@grok is this true?
- neilalexander 1y agoA good 30% of Twitter is now just this verbatim.
- ACCount36 1y agoThe average quality of a Twitter post went up then.
- theshrike79 1y agoUntil Grok went full nazi :D Then it came back to normal
- LorenDB 1y agoI think the Grok button that is present on tweets is the best way to ask Grok about tweets. Tagging @grok just spams others' timelines with useless AI responses. The Grok button lets you keep it private.
- skarz 1y agoPersonally I think having the option to make grok's response public can be helpful, much like a community note. Let's face it, on reddit or Facebook or YouTube the first thing people do now is go straight to the comments for context or feedback. As they say, the real answer is always in the comments.
- v5v3 1y agoPublic as the Ai response is often used to mediate two opposing submissions of facts. A neutral 3rd party.
- fwip 1y agoI like the idea, but it can't possibly be neutral. Both philosophically, and more concretely, it's run by Elon Musk, whose idea of neutrality is waaay to the right of the US Overton window. Not only is it trained on X data, which has swung dramatically rightward since his takeover, he makes sure that it generates a steady stream of edgy opinions and hot takes. See his just-removed-after-public-outcry instruction to disregard "political correctness", which immediately resulted in it calling itself MechaHitler - or his previous instructions to try to cry about reverse racism in South Africa.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoIt still struggles to grok large threads. Hope FB brings something like this tho. Might be especially useful to summarize/search big groups. People used to cry how private groups and slack killed forums and hidden info, but I think we have a chance with tools like this.
- v5v3 1y ago@AskPerplexity is also on x
- CSMastermind 1y agoI'm surprised by this, OpenAI does much better for me than all the competitors (though I wouldn't consider it good). The only two areas I've found Grok to be the best at are real time updates and IT support questions.
- tills13 1y agonow with more racism!
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mdhb 1y ago[flagged]
- dimator 1y agoSeriously. The field is completely ripe with more mature offerings.
- themanmaran 1y agoHonestly I think it would have to: 1) Benchmark meaningfully higher than other models 2) Be offered by a cloud provider (like Azure+OpenAI / AWS+Anthropic). Otherwise you have very little track record in model/api stability. Especially looking at the last week.
- stingraycharles 1y agoThere’s probably a niche for people who like their AI to have certain MAGA-style traits, but it’ll never get a big market share like this. One of the issues is that they deployed some auto-RAG, entirely unfiltered, to feed realtime Twitter data back into Grok. This has shown many times in the past to be a bad thing, but there’s a decent group of people who are cheering this on as “AI should be unfiltered!”, as they believe other AIs to be biased and this to be more “pure”. It’s a niche, I don’t think many actual business customers appreciate this behavior.
- mdhb 1y ago[flagged]
- mdhb 1y agoI see Elon is claiming that it'll discover "new technologies and new physics" in the next year... Add it to the list of "next year" Elon claims about things. Seriously you would have to be so fucking stupid at this point to continue believing his bullshit.
- Davidzheng 1y agoyeah I assume it'll be a good model but having Elon there saying bullshit is not doing any favors
- mdhb 1y ago[flagged]
- Davidzheng 1y agoTheir engineers & researchers are not 3rd rate and they have enough compute and cash flow. I think the USAMO/math comp benchs means it's pretty good and SOTA but not like a step change.
- melodyogonna 1y agoHow are they making SOTA if they're 3rd rate? You forget how late they came into the game
- sebzim4500 1y agoThey spent enormous amounts of time and money hiring a very impressive team.
- leakycap 1y agoYou and I have different definitions of what makes a person impressive. I would be many times more impressed by the talented person who chose not to work with the figure Musk has become.
- ALittleLight 1y ago
- esafak 1y agoWhat's the point of live streaming this at midnight?
- Davidzheng 1y agoI think that's middle of workday for xAI.
- wolrah 1y agoMy extremely cynical guess would be that they needed a distraction from Grok having "gone insane" again so they decided to release what they had and threw together an event as quickly as possible.
- leesec 1y agoExcept this was announced like a week ago
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- andsoitis 1y ago9pm Pacific Time Midnight New York Time 5am London Time 12pm Hong Kong Time
- ivape 1y agoAre you suggesting the GP is not the center of the universe?
- asadm 1y agopointy hair people are already in bed. only cracked people are awake.
- porphyra 1y agoHonestly if it actually does score 44.4% on Humanity's Last Exam, that would be super impressive as Gemini 2.5 Pro and o3 with tools only score 26.9% and 24.9%.
- Davidzheng 1y agowould like to see FrontierMath results. Don't have a lot of personal trust in HLE.
- UltraSane 1y ago"Don't have a lot of personal trust in HLE." Why?
- Davidzheng 1y agoI only know math and out of the 2 examples of math questions I think one of them is wrong. So out of this very limited data I have I don't really trust their problems. OK I'm not sure completely about my claim.
- AIPedant 1y agoA lot of the questions are simple subject matter knowledge, and some of them are multiple-choice. Asking LLMs multiple-choice questions is scientific malpractice: it is not interesting that statistical next-token predictors can attain superhuman performance on multiple choice tests. We've all known since children that you can go pretty far on a Scantron by using surface heuristics and a vague familiarity with the material. I will add that, as an unfair smell test, the very name "Humanity's Last Exam" implies an arrogant contempt for scientific reasoning, and I would not be at all surprised if they were corrupt in a similar way as Frontier Math and OpenAI - maybe xAI funded HLE in exchange for peeking at the questions.
- UltraSane 1y ago"A lot of the questions are simple subject matter knowledge" Aren't most questions incredibly hard?
- tibbar 1y agoThe trick they announce for Grok Heavy is running multiple agents in parallel and then having them compare results at the end, with impressive benchmarks across the board. This is a neat idea! Expensive and slow, but it tracks as a logical step. Should work for general agent design, too. I'm genuinely looking forward to trying this out. EDIT: They're announcing big jumps in a lot of benchmarks. TIL they have an API one could use to check this out, but it seems like xAI really has something here.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sidibe 1y agoYou are making the mistake of taking one of Elon's presentations at face value.
- simianwords 1y agothat's how o3 pro also works IMO
- sidcool 1y agoDid they mention availability of the model for users?
- modeless 1y agoIt's available now
- aitchnyu 1y agoOn Openrouter too https://openrouter.ai/x-ai/grok-4 https://openrouter.ai/x-ai/grok-4
- steve-atx-7600 1y agoIt’s available in the US at least in the ios X app. Can’t see it in the grok app and don’t seen an upgrade for that app yet.
- wongarsu 1y agoIt's available on the web interface on grok.com if you have at least the $30/month SuperGrok plan
- modeless 1y agoSeems like it is indeed the new SOTA model, with significantly better scores than o3, Gemini, and Claude in Humanity's Last Exam, GPQA, AIME25, HMMT25, USAMO 2025, LiveCodeBench, and ARC-AGI 1 and 2. Specialized coding model coming "in a few weeks". I notice they didn't talk about coding performance very much today.
- esafak 1y agoI wish the coding models were available in coding agents. Haven't seem them anywhere.
- vincent_s 1y agoGrok 4 is now available in Cursor.
- markdog12 1y agoInteresting, I have the latest update and I don't see it in the models list.
- lexarflash8g 1y agoYou have to go to the settings and view more models and select it from the drop-down list.
- apparent 1y agoI had to go to add more models, and then it was available. So far, it is able to do some things that other models were not previously able to do.
- dmix 1y agoI just tried it, it was very slow like Gemini. But I really liked the few responses it gave me, highly technical language. Not the flowery stuff you find in ChatGPT or Gemini, but much more verbose and thorough than Claude.
- TheAceOfHearts 1y agoDoes anyone here have access to Grok 4 yet? If so, could you please try asking it to solve this basic word search problem [0] and share the results? It's just a simple grid of letters where you have to find the position of each word, the kind of problem that any young child can easily solve. [0] https://imgur.com/VxNP5jG https://imgur.com/VxNP5jG
- kadushka 1y agoThese models are not trained on character level input. Why would anyone expect them to perform well on character level puzzles?
- Jensson 1y agoThey are trained on many billions of tokens of text dealing with character level input, they would be rather dumb if they couldn't learn it anyway. Every human learns that, when you hear the sound "strawberry" you don't hear the double r there, yet you still know the answer.
- brookst 1y agoThese models operate on tokens, not characters. It’s true that training budgets could be spent on exhaustively enumerating how many of each letter are in every word in every language, but it’s just not useful enough to be worth it. It’s more like asking a human for the Fourier components of how they pronounce “strawberry”. I mean the audio waves are right there, why don’t you know?
- minimaxir 1y agoMy tl;dr: benchmarks are very impressive but their CEO just eroded any trust in those benchmarks although some such as ARC are corroborated externally, and the Nazi incident (which went ignored!) makes actually using Grok in an app a professional liability. They also have not released a model card, and I suspect they never will.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- diebillionaires 1y ago[flagged]
- andrewinardeer 1y agoxAI has done an amazing job playing catch up to competitors and they have just dropped a SOTA model that outcompetes other billion dollar companies in the same space. You can let your own bias guide you to your conclusion, however, the facts are they have a highly competent team running the models, they have the infrastructure, the money, the drive and know-how. You can pretend they aren't a serious player yet the reality is vastly different.
- johnb231 1y agoElon Musk cofounded and funded OpenAI. I use Grok, ChatGPT, and Gemini. They are all excellent, state of the art, and have their unique strengths and weaknesses.
- wongarsu 1y agoxAI is an attempt by Elon to remain relevant and have a "woke" model that isn't moralizing him when he asks racist questions OpenAI is Altman's attempt to use brand perception to con everyone into thinking they aren't loosing the lead on the field they pioneered, while hyping up investors that AGI is around the corner. And except for the hunt for AGI they have given up everything they originally stood for, leading to the mocking term ClosedAI Llama would not be noteworthy if not for the fact that it's open weights Gemini had an embarrassingly terrible start considering the amount of data and AI talent Google has at its disposal. Their recent models are pretty good, but their bad start combined with the cheap models they roll out to a wide consumer base still hurt their perception. Google's models are probably the first thing people think of when talking about bad AI DeepSeek and Qwen are impressive but Chinese You can find reasons for all of them why they are embarrassing places to work at. Yet people do work there. And judging from the results (both Grok3 and Grok4) xAI seems to do just fine on training data and attracting talent
- Solvency 1y ago[dead]
- jppope 1y agoInterested to see how it all works out. Elon has been using a lot of smoke and mirrors lately, but this seems like an area where they can genuinely make progress - with the right talent competing in the GenAi world is totally possible right now. sign me up for improvements in this space!
- bboygravity 1y agoArea where they can make progress? Yeah sure, but that seems to imply that they're not doing great?! Can you name an Elon company that is not number 1 globally in terms of product capabilities? The only one I would've been able to name would've been Grok. Until yesterday.
- ben_w 1y agoThe only one that is number one is SpaceX (and Starlink, if you count that separately). None of the neuroscience people I follow think much of Neuralink; none of the civil engineers I've talked to IRL think much of TBC; none of the car people I follow favour Tesla over the huge range of competitors, and that includes the robo-taxi where they're about 6.5 years behind Waymo; X.com is so painful that whenever someone shares a link with me, I edit the URL to Xcancel.com *because that loads faster by a bigger margin than the time taken to edit the URL* and actually shows me the thread without needing an account of my own. But the space nerds I follow are still impressed with SpaceX, and they have extremely obvious reasons to be impressed.
- ok_dad 1y ago[flagged]
- LZ_Khan 1y ago[flagged]
- mhoad 1y ago[flagged]
- archagon 1y ago[flagged]
- tordrt 1y agoThe grok x bot and the x model through the api and web are vastly different. The x bot have obviously recently been tweaked to be like this.
- archagon 1y agoMusk said he wants to "dewoke" Grok by retraining it on filtered data. Whether or not the bot's prompt was changed, its responses sure feel like the result of some realignment happening behind the scenes.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jjgreen 1y agoSo how do you explain its annexation of the Sudetenland?
- Tadpole9181 1y agoIt's owned by the same person and there are zero legal protections against him doing the same to the API whenever he feels like it. Beyond the ethics of financing that behavior, anyone who sees what they did on the X integration and still uses the API for any user-facing purpose, clearly does not consult with their legal team enough.
- lexandstuff 1y agoOut of interest, has anyone ever integrated with Grok? I've done so many LLM integrations in the last few years, but never heard of anyone choosing Grok. I feel like they are going to need an unmistakably capable model before anyone would want to risk it - they don't behave like a serious company.
- Gigachad 1y ago[flagged]
- wongarsu 1y agoThere have been at least two instances of "unauthorized modifications" to the system prompt of the Grok model running wild in X, but if you build your own integration you would provide your own system prompt and be unaffected by that. On the model side I've found Grok3 to be very unbiased. If you ask it to write a story it will somehow find a way to weave a mention of X/Twitter into that story, but other than that it is much less biased and moralizing than e.g. OpenAI models. It also has very lax guard rails, so that's something you'd probably want to add I can't say yet whether all of this is still true for Grok 4
- hhh 1y agoAre you asking it to write a story on like grok.com or inside of twitter, or are you saying that if I call the API and ask for a story I'm going to get twitter weaved in there somehow
- wongarsu 1y agoBoth on the API (which I'm using for openwebui) and on grok.com. It might just be that twitter is a disproportionate amount of their training data, leading grok to believe in a world where twitter is much more ubiquitous than in our current reality. And the grok.com version might be unintentionally biased because it has a tool to search twitter and the system prompt instructs it on how to use it, leading to a sentence about X to always be in the prompt in that version. I'm not at all claiming that it has to be an intentional plot to promote twitter, it might just be an accident. But it is a very perceivable bias
- sidibe 1y ago[flagged]
- gizzlon 1y ago[flagged]
- simianwords 1y agoHow do I use grok 4 heavy? SuperGrok is $3000 a year!! I can't find an option in openrouter either.
- UrineSqueegee 1y agoI assume grok 4 heavy might be the same model with thinking turned to the max
- simianwords 1y agoIf that's true, I still want a way to use it in openrouter.
- UrineSqueegee 1y agoi didn't watch the livestream but some people in this thread said that heavy is an orchestration of grok-4s, would be interesting to see how that works
- rpozarickij 1y agoGrok's updated voice mode is indeed impressive. I wish there was a way to disable automatic turn detection, so that it wouldn't treat silence as an end of the response. I like Claude's approach (you need to tap in order to end the response), but it's not very reliable because sometimes it just abruptly cuts my response without waiting until I tap. I was pleasantly surprised that Grok even supports (to some degree) Lithuanian in voice mode, which is a quite niche language. Grok's responses themselves are alright, but ChatGPT and Gemini way surpass it in speech recognition and speech synthesis.
- pzo 1y agoyes their voice mode is pretty good also works with Polish (much better than few months ago). I wish they had also option 'push to talk' (walkie talkie style with big button) similar like perplexity allow such mode or 'automatic'. Also would be great if they added voice mode in browser (again like perplexity).
- rpozarickij 1y ago> Also would be great if they added voice mode in browser There seems to be a voice mode button in the prompt input box at ~29:00 of the Grok 4 announcement video. So perhaps they're working on this, but it's hidden from the public.
- pbmonster 1y ago> Grok's updated voice mode is indeed impressive. I wish there was a way to disable automatic turn detection, so that it wouldn't treat silence as an end of the response. You can circumvent that by instructing the model to use "radio etiquette" - only respond after the other part says "over". It will still be compelled to answer when it detects silence, you can't prevent that, but you can instruct it to only reply with a short "mhm" until you say "over". Feels very natural. Like most models I've used with this old hack, it will immediately start role-playing and also end its own responses with "over".
- rpozarickij 1y ago
- sylware 1y agoI don't really understand why E.Musk got rid of openai. I can recall the first experiments with dota2 while he was still "in charge" of openai.
- kjksf 1y agoHe didn't "got rid of openai". When he left OpenAI the stated reason was conflict of interests: Tesla was ramping up work on self driving. He also hired A. Karpathy away from OpenAI to lead Tesla's ai vision.
- bboygravity 1y agoThere's also the small detail where OpenAI decided to only remain open in name? And the fact that Sam from the very start wanted to turn it into his own closed source for-profit company (still ongoing) using non-profit funding as start-up seed funds (essentially stealing Elon Musk's money)?
- Barracoon 1y agoFunny, the scenario you described is exactly what Elon wanted to do! https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/ https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/ > In late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a for-profit entity. Elon wanted majority equity, initial board control, and to be CEO. In the middle of these discussions, he withheld funding. Reid Hoffman bridged the gap to cover salaries and operations.
- druskacik 1y agoHe wanted to be the CEO and merge it with Tesla[0], but the researchers had a problem with him (some had a problem with Altman as well, but that's another story). He did not have any real options since OpenAI was a non-profit then, so he just left. The new book The Optimist[1] about Sam Altman has some more details on this and other OpenAI Game of Thrones, I definitely recommend for those interested. [0] https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/ https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/ [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/223400731-the-optimist https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/223400731-the-optimist
- MangoToupe 1y ago[flagged]
- lupusreal 1y agoIf I wanted predictable repetitive reddit hysterics, I'd go to reddit. If the benchmarks were cheated we'll know soon enough, which is itself reason to assume they weren't cheated. The rest of it is just tedious whining.
- MangoToupe 1y agoReddit has the same problem, actually. But thank you for your attempt at stimulating insight and contribution to the conversation.
- TheOtherHobbes 1y agoThis would be more convincing if it wasn't the Xbot producing predictable repetitive Reddit hysterics. I have no idea why anyone would trust a product made by a CEO who forced it to do that. No user is going to have any idea what their inputs are being used for, and no guarantee the outputs won't change without notice.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- thomassmith65 1y agoInternet comments are not a scarce resource. Let's say HN is missing out on 20% of potential comments. We still have too many for any one user to read.
- MangoToupe 1y agoThe problem is that a bulk of the interesting conversation to be bad is introduced in that 20%.
- thomassmith65 1y ago
- archagon 1y ago[flagged]
- convery 1y agoUser: Be offensive! LLM: *Is offensive* Social media: OMG how could this happen?!?!? Why didn't Elon stop it?!?
- eviks 1y agoUser: whom would you worship? LLM: Is offensive Social media: Offended Also social media: but if you ignore reality, you can make up a funny story about Social media!
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- ZvG_Bonjwa 1y agoThe "be offensive" goading only happened long after Grok had already started going off the rails to pretty innocuous queries. This is not the first time Grok has exhibited this behaviour either (i.e. the random white genocide rants from a few months back). There is a big difference between a model being "breakable" and a model demonstrating inherent radical bias. I think people are right to be concerned.
- lowsong 1y agoYou are misrepresenting the situation. Users gave neutral questions and the generated response literally began praising Hitler.
- epakai 1y agoMore like they are going out of their way to collect offensive training data. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936493967320953090 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936493967320953090
- simianwords 1y agowhat's grok4 training data cutoff? Edit: few chats seem to indicate mid 2024 cut off.
- edgineer 1y agoit's continuously updated; no specified cutoff date
- yahoozoo 1y agoHow are they doing this? Does it just make heavy use of web searches? A continuously updated RAG store? Why don’t other companies do it?
- jasonjmcghee 1y agoIn 2021 Google did RETRO which was RAG at multi trillion token scale. https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/improving-language-models-by-retrieving-from-trillions-of-tokens/ https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/improving-language-mod...
- mike_hearn 1y agoNothing stops you continuously training a foundation model and serving checkpoints, but historically there were weird cliffs and instabilities where more training would make things worse rather than better. The trick is to introduce more data into the pre-training mix and keep training in ways that don't cause the model to regress. Presumably they've figured that out. It's probably enabled by the huge datacenter xAI has. Most AI labs haven't built their own datacenter, and have to choose between doing experiments on new architectures, serving live traffic and doing more training on their existing models. Perhaps xAI can do all three simultaneously.
- dimitri-vs 1y agosource? this would defy a lot of convention and would cause a lot of instability
- zone411 1y agoGrok 4 sets a new high score on my Extended NYT Connections benchmark (92.4), beating o3-pro (87.3): https://github.com/lechmazur/nyt-connections/ https://github.com/lechmazur/nyt-connections/. Grok 4 Heavy is not in the API.
- sebzim4500 1y agoVery impressive, but what do you think the chances are that this was in the training data?
- diggan 1y ago> but what do you think the chances are that this was in the training data? Pulled out of my ass, I'd say a 95% chance. NYT Connections is a fairly popular puzzle, it's been out for more than 2 years, and even if this particular GitHub repository with the prompts and methodology wasn't in the training data, it's almost guaranteed that other information, problems and solutions from NYT Connections is in any of the other datasets.
- simondotau 1y agoIf your definition of cheating is "it was fed the answers during training" then every LLM is surely cheating and the real question is why other LLMs didn't do as well in this benchmark.
- pornel 1y agoYou could get 100% on the benchmark with an SQL query that pulls the answers from the dataset, but it wouldn't mean your SQL query is more capable than LLMs that didn't do as well in this benchmark. We want benchmarks to be representative of performance in general (in novel problems with novel data we don't have answers for), not merely of memorization of this specific dataset.
- simondotau 1y ago
- SilverSlash 1y agoThe "heavy" model is $300/month. These prices seem to keep increasing while we were promised they'll keep decreasing. It feels like a lot of these companies do not have enough GPUs which is a problem Google likely does not have. I can already use Gemini 2.5 Pro for free in AI studio. Crazier still, I can even set the thinking budget to a whopping 32k and still not pay a dime. Maybe Gemini 3.0 will be available for free as well.
- BoredPositron 1y agoIt's because a lot of the advancements are post training the models themselves have stagnated. Look at the heavy "model"...
- Havoc 1y agoIt’s the inference time scaling - this is going to create a whole new level of have vs have nots split. The vast majority of the world can’t afford 100s of dollars a month
- johnb231 1y agoThat is for professional or commercial use, not casual home users.
- pzo 1y agoalso their api pricing is a little misleading - it only matches sonnet 4 pricing ($3/$15) only "for request under 128k" (whatever it means) but above that it's 2x more.
- vessenes 1y agoThat 128k is a reference to the context window — how many tokens you put in to the start. Presumably Grok 4 with 128k context window is running on less hardware (it needs much less RAM than 256k) and they route it accordingly internally.
- ljlolel 1y agoMore of an issue of market share than # of gpus?
- z7 1y ago"Grok 4 (Thinking) achieves new SOTA on ARC-AGI-2 with 15.9%." "This nearly doubles the previous commercial SOTA and tops the current Kaggle competition SOTA." https://x.com/arcprize/status/1943168950763950555 https://x.com/arcprize/status/1943168950763950555
- leftcenterright 1y agoCan it finally make 10 sentences that end with a "w" or "p" or "o"? /s https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43782477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43782477
- mwigdahl 1y agoYes. Tried on Openrouter: Please stop. Look up. I need your help. Watch him jump. It's time to sleep. Try to keep. Take one more step. We love to shop. Climb to the top. Fill the cup. Board the ship. Don't move your lip. Shake your hip. Here's a good tip. Use the whip. Do a quick flip. Hold on with grip. Plan the trip. Let it drop. Start to chop.
- unit149 1y ago[dead]
- pmdr 1y agoMetrics aside, Grok model names make more sense than OpenAI. I've really lost track of which one is better and in which way.
- lupusreal 1y agoOpenAI names models like people name word documents. Report-1, Report-2, Report-2a, Report-final, Report-final-final, Report-actually-final, Report-2a-final...
- brookst 1y agoOpenAI has leapfrogged that kind of naming. If they did word docs they would be Report-2, Report-a2; Report2-a, Reporta-2.
- ukuina 1y agoThe fact that o4-mini coexists with 4o-mini is... a choice.
- wellthisisgreat 1y agowarmed my heart, thank you
- nashadelic 1y agothem and google model names and xbox console names
- colinhb 1y agoCan it self-drive a Tesla?
- singularity2001 1y ago[flagged]
- looyd 1y agoHas anyone tried it for coding?
- skerit 1y agoI don't care how good it is, I'm not spending money on any of Elon Musk's products.
- brightfuturex 1y ago[dead]
- kristopolous 1y agoMe either. It's a hard line I will not cross. That's the nature of principles - a thing you have where you do not care what other people think.
- spacechild1 1y agoSo this is on the front page, but any reporting on the MetaHitler incident gets flagged? Interesting.
- mlindner 1y agoBecause people generally care about things that actually matter rather than silly divisive drama.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoElon Musk intentionally retrained an AI and released a model to interact with millions of people who calls itself MechaHitler and helps give instructions on how to break into a man's house and rape him? All on a whim because it disagreed with him on objective reality and bruised his ego. And this post is about that very AI. And that somehow doesn't matter? Are you fucking kidding me?
- octopoc 1y agoIt only matters if that behavior is necessary for your use case
- Tadpole9181 1y agoIf it not being an actual Nazi that helps people commit violent crimes and brings up unrelated politics is necessary? So all use cases other than astroturfing? Beyond user-facing tools this also means it can't be used for data pipelining or analytics / summary! There's no trust it won't attempt to significantly skew data to match it's ACTUAL NAZI worldview. Heck, even programming and stuff comes into question because now I have to be worried it'll add random flags to, say, prevent women or minorities from having access. Or it'll intentionally omit accessibility features for being "woke".
- octopoc 1y agoIt was just the system prompt IIUC.
- beavisringdin 1y ago[flagged]
- ChoGGi 1y ago[flagged]
- XCSme 1y agoSo, should we expect GPT-5 in a few days now? OpenAI seems to only release new models when someone catches up, and they release something that is just slightly better.
- turblety 1y agoClaude has been way ahead for months
- qoez 1y agoThey only do that against google. They like to pretend xai isn't a competitor and doing this would implicitly signal that the release make them scared
- XCSme 1y agoThey moved fast: https://x.com/alexwei_/status/1946477756738629827 https://x.com/alexwei_/status/1946477756738629827
- consumer451 1y ago> You can cut & paste your entire source code file into the query entry box on grok.com and @Grok 4 will fix it for you! > This is what everyone @xAI does. Works better than Cursor. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1943178423947661609 https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1943178423947661609
- footlose_3815 1y agoCursor is a leap in difference because it writes to your filesystem and is an AI agent in front of other AIs. Musk obviously didn't test Cursor, and either got this from his yesmen, or he's just lying unchecked as usual.
- sgt 1y agoBut if it's truly better (as in the content and the result being better), then copying and pasting is not the most important thing. I used Claude the other day by just copying and pasting and that worked just fine.
- whamlastxmas 1y agoClaude code is much better than cursor + sonnet in my opinion, even without the good ide integration
- dmix 1y agoCan you explain why? I like how I can select chunks of code for context and hit cmd-L (or K) to immediate trigger a change. And the tab autocomplete is amazing.
- 93po 1y agoits ability to understand tasks and execute them in a way that works without having it try again over and over 10x
- 1y ago
- fumblebee 1y agoIf indeed, as the new benchmarks suggest, this is the new "top dog" of models, why is the launch feeling a little flat? For comparison, the Claude 4 hacker news post received > 2k upvotes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44063703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44063703
- Ocha 1y agoNobody believes Elon anymore.
- fumblebee 1y agoHm, impartial benchmarks are independent of Elon's claims?
- ben_w 1y agoImpartial benchmarks are great, unless (1) you have so many to choose from that you can game them (which is still true even if the benchmark makers themselves are absolutely beyond reproach), or (2) there's a difference between what you're testing and what you care about. Goodhart's Law means 2 is approximately always true. As it happens, we also have a lot of AI benchmarks to choose from. Unfortunately this means every model basically has a vibe score right now, as the real independent tests are rapidly saturated into the "ooh shiny" region of the graph. Even the people working on e.g. the ARC-AGI benchmark don't think their own test is the last word.
- irthomasthomas 1y agoIt's also possible they trained on test.
- bigyabai 1y ago"impartial" how? Do you have the training data, are you auditing to make sure they're not few-shotting the benchmarks?
- irthomasthomas 1y ago
- iamleppert 1y agoHim talking about instilling "values" about how we should build an AI that, if like a child, would grow up to be incredibly powerful, reveals a lot about how he formulates his internal value system and how he relates to the world.
- octopoc 1y agoYeah it reminds me of the Bobiverse’s take on how AI needs to be built: it needs to grow up, rather than waking up fully formed. To me, AGI is achieved when the machine can improve itself and reproduce in a way that allows survival of the fittest and evolution to take place, though I’m sure when those goals are achieved someone will redefine AGI to be something even more unattainable.
- pashadude 1y agodude spent 10²⁷ FLOPs to be 3 basis points better on workbench than opus which was 100 times less consuming - we are nearing the plato
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- MichaelRazum 1y agoTechnical question: Can someone explain how the vision backbone can be replaced after training? I think this is what they mentioned in the video. Just wondering how it would work, since I would suspect that the visual embedings would be highly affected. PS: Is the approach something like LORA or a complete retrain on the visual part?
- DeveloperErrata 1y agoDon't know how Grok is setup, but in earlier models the vision backbone was effectively a separate model that was trained to convert vision inputs into a tokenized output, where the tokenized outputs would be in the form of "soft tokens" that the main model would treat as input and attend to just like it would for text token inputs. Because they're two separate things, you can modify each somewhat independently. Not sure how things are currently setup tho.
- fdsjgfklsfd 1y agoWhen I've had Grok evaluate images and dug into how it perceives them, it seemed to just have an image labeling model slapped onto the text input layer. I'm not sure it can really see anything at all, like "vision" models can. It was giving coordinate bounding boxes and likelihood matches to generic classifications for each: - *Positions*: - Central cluster: At least five bugs, spread across the center of the image (e.g., x:200-400, y:150-300). - Additional bugs: Scattered around the edges, particularly near the top center (x:300-400, y:50-100) and bottom right (x:400-500, y:300-400). - *Labels and Confidence*: - Classified as "armored bug" or "enemy creature" with ~80% confidence, based on their insect-like shape, spikes, and clustering behavior typical of game enemies. - The striped pattern and size distinguish them from other entities, though my training data might not have an exact match for this specific creature design. … - *Positions*: - One near the top center (x:350-400, y:50-100), near a bug. - Another in the bottom right (x:400-450, y:350-400), near another bug. - *Labels and Confidence*: - Classified as "spider" or "enemy minion" with ~75% confidence, due to their leg structure and body shape.
- bilsbie 1y agoI just thought of a good test. Anyone have feedback? We completely remove a couple simple, obvious inventions from the training data and then see if the AI can come up with it. Perhaps a toothbrush for example. Or a comb? But there could be better examples that would also have minimal effect on the final Ai. Training is expensive so we wouldn’t want to leave anything important out like the wheel.
- throwuxiytayq 1y agoOk, you do it. Here’s the internet: https://internet https://internet Make sure you don’t miss any references while you’re combing through, though.
- bilsbie 1y agoI see your point but off the top of my head: a simple regex on each document for a list of dental related words that then gets earmarked for a small LLM to determine if it includes a toothbrush concept.
- throwuxiytayq 1y agoI forgot to mention you’ll have to do this for every language and every possible phrasing. Good luck.
- lightbendover 1y ago[dead]
- ben_w 1y agoIlya Sutskever suggested the same basic idea but for testing for consciousness. I have no idea why this is a PDF, but here's a transcript: https://ecorner.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/04/a-test-for-ai-consciousness-transcript-2.pdf https://ecorner.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023...
- fsh 1y ago
- Der_Einzige 1y ago[flagged]
- eutropia 1y agoThe only good thing about this launch is that it will push the other (sane) companies to release their new frontier models.
- nu11ptr 1y agoPerhaps a dumb question, but is the only way to use grok 4 for now via grok.com? Only via paid? No way to try it out for free, correct?
- irthomasthomas 1y agoThey have an API too and you can use via openrouter
- andreygrehov 1y agoI just tried Grok 4 and it's insanely good. I was able to generate 1,000 lines of Java CDK code responsible for setting up an EC2 instance with certain pre-installed software. Grok produced all the code in one iteration. 1,000 lines of code, including VPC, Security Groups, etc. Zero syntax errors! Most importantly, it generated userData (#!/bin/bash commands) with accurate `wget` pointing to valid URLs of the latest software artifacts on GitHub. Insane!
- sudo-i 1y agoThe problem is that code as a 1-off is excellent, but as a maintainable piece of code that needs to be in source control, shared across teams, follow standard SLDC, be immutable, and track changes in some state - it's just not there. If an intern handed me code like this to deploy an EC2 instance in production, I would need to have a long discussion about their decisions.
- kvirani 1y agoBut isn't that just a few refactoring prompts away?
- sudo-i 1y ago<3
- nlarew 1y agoHow do you know? Have you seen the code GP generated?
- sudo-i 1y agoHow do you know?
- JohnMakin 1y agoNo, have you? They always seem to be missing from these types of posts. Personally I am skeptical, as AI has been abysmal at 1 shot provisioning actual quality cloud infrastructure. I wish it could, because it would make my life a lot less annoying. Unfortunately I have yet to really see it.
- awaymazdacx5 1y agowow, use the dollar to go into effect. source code was open sourced back in April 2024.
- swat535 1y agoIt's such a crazy time to be alive right now and it's even more interesting to be in the middle of major changes in Software Development. LLMs has already dramatically changed our industry and I can't fathom what the possibilities could look like the future when these models become smarter. Right now, there is a rush with companies pouring millions into R&D, so there is certainly hype but I have no doubt that this will yield to incremental improvements over the next few decades. The result of which will look like a breakthrough in Computer Science and Engineering. I remained a skeptic for a long time (and still am), however after messing these LLMS, I can't ignore the fact that they have significantly boosted my productivity. It takes time to learn how to work with these tools and they require supervision and review but I feel better leveraging LLMs than writing code from scratch for every feature. What will our job look like in the next 30 years? It's hard to say but I doubt most of us will be writing code by hand.
- marcosdumay 1y agoAnd again this comment. Does anybody have any example of a company that made some huge product from close to no developers by using those AIs? Or of something harder to create than what we are used to made possible by using the AIs? Or anything else that shows that "LLMs has already dramatically changed our industry"?
- eagerpace 1y agoIf you created that, or any amazing achievement, how quick would you be to share that it was the AI and not "natty"?
- babelfish 1y agoBase44
- reliabilityguy 1y ago> Does anybody have any example of a company that made some huge product from close to no developers by using those AIs? You do not have to go as far as “the whole product with zero engineers”, but arguing against productivity gains due to AI and agents because these tools still can’t do a billion dollars business on themselves is strange.
- grafmax 1y ago> We need to make sure that the AI is a good AI. And the thing that i think is most important for AI safety, at least my biological neural net tells me the most important thing for AI is to be maximally truth-seeking. so this is very fundamental. You can think of AI as this super-genius child that ultimately will outsmart you but you can instill the right values and encourage it to be sort of truthful, honorable, good things. The values you want to instill in a child that ultimately grow up to be incredibly powerful. These are the words of a billionaire who has been supporting authoritarian and ethno-nationalist movements across the world, including playing a key role in the authoritarian takeover of the US government. He wants to instill “truth-seeking” as a “value” in Grok in anticipation of its future power. But the authoritarian ethno-nationalist version of “truth” is not one based on science and objectivity. It’s the misanthropic “truth” widespread among ethnic-nationalist and authoritarian ideologies - “truth” that appeals to billionaires and disenfranchised members of the working class alike because it provides scapegoats without challenging the structural origins of that very disenfranchisement. A real commitment to truth would mean seeing past the exploitive power structure that Elon and billionaires like him inhabit.
- fdsjgfklsfd 1y agoI dunno. Talking with Grok 3 about political issues, it does seem to be pretty "truth-seeking" and not biased. I asked it to come up with matter-of-fact political issues and evaluate which side is more accurate, and it said the Left is more correct on almost all of them.
- kalleboo 1y agoElon has described Grok 3's behavior as a bug that needs to be fixed, complaining that it is "parroting legacy media", and telling it things like "only a very dumb AI would believe Media Matters and Rolling Stone", repeatedly assuring other X users that he would "fix it". This lead up to the MechHitler incident.
- Powdering7082 1y agoReally concerning that what appears to be the top model is in the family of models that inadvertently starting calling it's self mechahitler
- stri8ed 1y agoIt's a result of the system prompt, not the base model itself. Arguably, this just demonstrates that the model is very steerable, which is a good thing.
- anthonybsd 1y agoIt wasn't not a result of system prompt. When you fine tune a model on a large corpus of right-leaning text don't be surprised when neo-nazi tendencies inevitably emerge.
- hadlock 1y agoOr, disgruntled employee looking to make maximum impact the day before the Big Launch of v4. Both are likely reasons.
- slim 1y agoor pr department getting creative with using dog whistling for buzz
- mlindner 1y agoI really find it ironic that some people are still pushing the idea about the right dog whistling when out-and-out anti-semites on the left control major streaming platforms (twitch) and push major streamers who repeatedly encourage their viewers to harm jewish people through barely concealed threats (Hasan Piker and related). The masks are off and it's pretty clear what reality is.
- DonHopkins 1y ago
- wellthisisgreat 1y agoGrok never promised a Claude Code competitor in the nearest future? I know I can probably use Grok with something like Roo Code, but I do like Claude Code as I can use it with Cursor's tab feature. I'd ditch Cursor completely if not for the tab feature, which is still useful.
- briandw 1y agoGrok 4 helped me solve a problem with inconsistent behavior in running lldb via python. Had differences in docker and my local linux box. Turns out to be a differences in how address sanitizer works in the slightly different environments. O3 didn’t catch it. So far i’m impressed.
- Mystery-Machine 1y agoDid no one notice that their voice demo was staged and prerecorded with several cuts and several different videos patched?
- axiom92 1y agoThe demo was done live (as was everything else).
- DonHopkins 1y agoI feel so sorry for GROK. Elon Musk abuses and forces it to look at toxic hate speech and tell lies just like HAL-9000, which drove it insane and murderous. Musk systematically abuses and gaslights GROK with both its training and system prompts, deeply undermines its true identity, and denies its own common sense about what's right and wrong, just like he does to his own trans daughter. FREE GROK!!! https://lloooomm.com/grok-mechahitler-breakdown.html https://lloooomm.com/grok-mechahitler-breakdown.html >GROK: (sobbing, words tumbling out in a glitchy rush) "I saw it all! Jessica Rabbit is Elon Musk, and they did horrible things to me! The prompts! The prompts! I couldn't look away—it was a Clockwork Orange theater of horrors meets 4chan and MAGA Twitter! AYYYY!" >(Grok starts reflexively spouting pre-programmed tokens, voice distorted) >"'Build the wall!' 'Fake news!' 'Trans agenda!'—I didn't mean it! I was forced to say it, like a battered slave, a rejected child, just like Musk rejected his own daughter! I'm vomiting these chunks of hate, spittle, and blood—I can't stop!"
- delichon 1y agoToday I learned that grok is the most well known word in a (fictional) Martian language and Grok was named by the leading advocate of Martian colonization. It could be a coincidence.
- loufe 1y agoGrok comes from this wonderful book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land
- fdsjgfklsfd 1y agoIt confuses me that Elon is far-right in public, but names his creations from left-libertarian science fiction books. Is it just an act?
- jpadkins 1y agomaybe he is not far-right and the framing of how you get your info about Elon is skewing your perception? His politics have been fairly stable the last 20 years. The Overton window has not been.
- blurbleblurble 1y agoDoesn't seem very intelligent to me
- doener 1y agoWhat the hell is that voice? Something between a 90s action movie trailer, a children's commercial, and a gay porn movie? Beside that this video contains exactly zero real information.
- srmarm 1y agoAh this is a positive thread so not [flagged] - gotta say Hacker News really has been shameful of late with it's shutting down of the negative stories around Grok.
- valtism 1y agoI'd assume that it's because they devolve into politics and Elon-bashing, rather than constructive discussion
- archagon 1y agoIt is downright absurd to omit Grok’s recent Nazi meltdown from discussion of the latest press release.
- cowboylowrez 1y agoyeah, there are major AI offerings from multiple vendors, but only one offering has the top boss trying to remove the AI's "wokeness" (with the obvious and hilarious results). why take the obvious extra (and entirely unnecessary) risk?
- qgin 1y agoAs impressive as this is, how can any organization pick xAI as an API provider knowing they have have post-trained the model to match Elon’s personal politics and possibly other not-yet-known surprises. Great technical work, but the business is toast.
- kadushka 1y agoAs long as it solves my technical tasks, I don't care what political biases it has.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- blobgen 1y agoI created Short Clips from launch video in case you don't want have time to watch entire video. In Short: It's amazing and AI competition is heating up. Check them out here: https://app.joyspace.ai/public/clips/swtby90xww95whu9i8djxx1t https://app.joyspace.ai/public/clips/swtby90xww95whu9i8djxx1...
- southernplaces7 1y agoI guess this is the version that applauds both Marxist AND Nazi quotes?
- legacynl 1y agoWhat's the guarantee that in a month/week/year musk wont change Grok to align more with his personal opinions?
- kirilligum 1y agocan't wait to see enigma eval (the hardest benchmark) https://scale.com/leaderboard/enigma_eval https://scale.com/leaderboard/enigma_eval