8 ms·

For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and t

by ggm 1y ago

For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again. This is mostly Australian frequent flyers, when it was a high barrier to entry it conferred advantages and now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage, and no points flight availability. So yes. Status seeking, and differential price seeking probably is a-social as a pattern when it's weaponised against the consumer. That said, I hated Uber, they actually offered to underwrite people breaking the law to get foot in the door (how that didn't get them excluded as a corporate scofflaw is beyond me) and they continue to export all the profits offshore, but taxi services had become shit and now we have got used to Uber and I just don't worry about surge pricing. I got boiled slowly. My fellow Australians all feel a bit shit about the introduction of tipping in paywave and food service. That's unaustralian. We have legally enforced minimum wages and penalty rates. Turn that feature off. The European push to mandate included luggage in flight is seeing a fair bit of trolling. So there are still true believers who think needing clean underwear is weak.

anonzzzies 1y ago
> there is next to no boarding advantage Especially on the discounters here in EU (especially Ryanair / Easyjet), i'm the only one in the non-priority queue, everyone else is in the priority queue. This used to of course not be the case; you paid extra and was in first. Now i'm usually in before 2/3th of the prio queue. Which is just weird. > about surge pricing. I got boiled slowly. Not sure how it is in the US (I used uber there on vacation in the past, but on vacation, I don't worry about prices too much), but here prices jump heavily during surge; often from 40->50->38 euros in a few minutes; I'll just keep an eye on the app for a few minutes and pick it at a good point. Taxis are almost always twice or sometimes (airport) 3x the price. I never take them as they are also often rude and I cannot rate them (these two are related). The last one I took was 3 weeks ago; I was 10 minute drive to the airport from some horrible 'business hotel' and I had an early flight, so I checked out, ordered an uber at 5am and waited; in front of me stopped a 'real' taxi (both are now legal and need licenses, but Taxi have Taxi on top); the driver got out to welcome his client which was not me but obviously he thought I was. We talked for a bit waiting for his real client and then he asked how much uber was; E15 I showed him. He said; cancel it and give me E15. Ok, so I got in front, the other client in the back. We arrived, and while waiting to park up, he shoved a terminal in my face with E15 on it, so I paid. We got out, he got the luggage from the other guy who asked 'how much is it'; E72,-. Cheers bro; made almost E90 for a 10 minute trip. Point being; hating uber (and I used to refuse to use them) is making your life very hard for very little benefit. The taxis needed a kick up the arse and they still didn't learn anything. Still need to order far upfront, their app sucks and far more expensive. Not sure how they can exist (of course I do, they don't know uber exists, how to use it or they refuse to use it). I find if you are with 2+ people, they are often cheaper than the trains which is quite mental really in a country where 'people should take the train if they can'.
- jagrsw 1y ago
  > but here prices jump heavily during surge Yup. The price jump isn't just a "surge." It's the algorithm calculating the highest price you'll tolerate without abandoning the app long-term, no matter availability of cars (which can be related, but from CFOs perspective that's not the metric to optimize) This personalized price discrimination is precisely the kind of manipulation geohot is describing. It's the same principle as (an old story) booking.com charging Mac/Safari/iphone users more.
  - chii 1y ago
    and you reinforce it every time you accept the price. So you have to vote with your wallet. If you can't, or won't, then it just proves that their pricing algorithm has found "your" price, and so you don't get to keep your surplus value as it gets transfered to uber. This is why i, even if i can afford it, go for lowest price, most economically valuable buys. Always, without exception. Cannot allow them to win.
    - matthewdgreen 1y ago
      And this generally fails because Uber has more market power, given that there are only a few alternative options and many people will defect in order to get where they’re going. If customers could organize somehow and apply this principle collectively they could achieve some parity with Uber and it would affect that organization’s behavior more. But we’ve decided that regulation is bad, and the tech world hasn’t figured out how to build an Uber-bargaining collective app (which wouldn’t instantly itself defect and take a payoff from Uber.)
  - SXX 1y ago
    Booking is the worst of them. You can open two tabs of one account next to each other and since one is from Google Maps pricing gonna be. 20% different. Also all kind of cashback or discount offers just bake even higher premium than Cashback they offer. So yeah booking hotels is more and more like a whack-a-mole game if you don't want to pay 30% more.
throw393949 1y ago
> who think needing clean underwear is weak. Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago. And boarding plane is much faster. I really do not want to pay for your luggage!
- digitalPhonix 1y ago
  Boarding the plane would be much faster if everyone didn’t have the maximum sized carry-on because they’re trying to avoid paying for a checked bag.
  - nemothekid 1y ago
    The fact that they may make you check it anyways is annoying. I avoid checking a bag but because it’s price sensitive; its because so much of the airline experience is just idle dead time and I’d like to avoid spending an extra 45 minutes waiting around at baggage claim. Having everyone check bags is just trading waiting at one area for waiting in another area
    - mcintyre1994 1y ago
      Since they tend to do that at the check in gate and slow boarding, I think it’s more adding waiting at one area and also at another area.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  > Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago. So you carry high quality detergent, and clean washing machine with delicate setting, and then air dry your clothes? Nice.
  - throw37383848 1y ago
    Yes, I carry a few grams of detergent powder in a zip lock bag. I wash in clean dry bag to avoid dirty sinks. And I air dry my clothes over night! It is simpler and faster than dealing with hotel laundry, laundromat or carrying extra 10kg of clothes around!
protocolture 1y ago
>My fellow Australians all feel a bit shit about the introduction of tipping in paywave and food service. That's unaustralian. We have legally enforced minimum wages and penalty rates. Turn that feature off. Eh I wouldnt speak for all of us. I like having the ability to reward contractors with some extra cash for a job well done. The issue is structurally relying on it. Shit, when I was 14 or so I worked as a baggage handler. And I will never forget the time we took on an overflow job from an american cruise liner at circular quay. Not only was I getting 20 bucks an hour (decent pay at the time), but I took home an extra 1100 or so completely tax free. Nothing as australian as cash in hand. >That said, I hated Uber, they actually offered to underwrite people breaking the law to get foot in the door Its always moral to break unjust laws. The taxi monopolies needed to be broken. Having those laws challenged thanks to the donation of US VC money was just a bonus. Actually theres still work to be done. Sydney CBD is still extremely hostile to rideshare.
- ggm 1y ago
  Noted. Some people here like tips as a discretionary option. I think folding it into the paywave terminal is .. naff.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    Hard to do any kind of tip these days without adding it to the terminal.
- stavros 1y ago
  Yeah but it's one thing to tip for a job well done and a whole other thing to have to tip even for a job done middlingly.
cortesoft 1y ago
> What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again Wouldn't the market purist argue that this just means the good is mispriced, and tickets should actually be what the price is with the premium added? What you really need is to just raise the prices of the tickets and the price to jump the queue?
- kragen 1y ago
  The market purist might argue for a second-price auction for boarding order, where people board in the order of highest sealed bid for boarding order to lowest, but pay the amount bid by the person behind them in the sequence; or for "Paris Metro Pricing" where everyone being in the "priority" line results in a large fraction of them opting not to pay the premium for the next flight they take. Or they might think up something I haven't thought of.
  - jodrellblank 1y ago
    CGP Grey on "The better boarding method airlines won't use" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
    - kragen 1y ago
      Thanks for the link! This is a good example of the use of the medium of video (animation) to present information more clearly than alternative media could. He's concerned not about allocating the suffering optimally (to the people least willing to pay to reduce it, for example because they are in excellent health or couldn't afford the flight otherwise) but about reducing the total amount of suffering, which is far more important. In other contexts, the main benefit of market mechanisms is precisely that they vastly reduce suffering, for example by stimulating the production of socially valuable goods. Is there a way market mechanisms for boarding order could have such a benefit? For example, by rewarding people who board in an order that minimizes overall boarding delay? I'm skeptical.
- imtringued 1y ago
Neil44 1y ago
If you wanted to be generous you could say it the other way around, moving some features to premium allows people who value time and money differently to still get the bulk of the value they want out of the proposition. I don't for one minute think that's the actual conversation had in HQ but it's still valid I guess.
taneq 1y ago
> now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage Why would you want to be on the plane earlier than necessary? Only thing I can think of is better access to the overhead lockers, which fill up fast these days.
- FridgeSeal 1y ago
  Less so the early boarding, but the priority baggage is nice, especially after long international flights. Getting on the flight 15 minutes early also beats dawdling in a slow moving like for 20. Lounge access is worth it alone! Especially on international connections!!
  - pards 1y ago
    > Lounge access is worth it alone Airport food & coffee is expensive and often not very good. At least with lounge access, I get that subpar food & coffee for free plus somewhere to sit. With a family, that can save a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday.
    - BLKNSLVR 1y ago
      > With a family, that can save a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday. How long are y'all sitting around in lounges? If a small meal / snack saves a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday then one of us is not doing it right. Flights and accommodation are the lions share of costs as far as my limited experience goes. (P.S. I was meant to be leaving for Japan this morning, but family medical emergency has ruled it out. Flights were $5,500. I'd hope that airport food costs wouldn't raise a blip on a radar set to that scale).
varelse 1y ago
[dead]
CrulesAll 1y ago
"how that didn't get them excluded as a corporate scofflaw is beyond me)" The essence to breaking crony capitalism. No prosecution. No change. Fines do not work. For a start, it's the shareholder that pays. Prosecute the executives with more than just a wag of the finger, and it changes behaviour.
surgical_fire 1y ago
> For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again There's a freedom that comes with not caring and just accepting I am last in the line. I don't pay the premium and I can sit and relax in the lobby while the sheep that paid wait in line. Only when the queue is nearly depleted it is my turn.
- nosianu 1y ago
  Though, that too only works if it is not adopted by the majority :) The actual strategy is not that you are last, but that you choose to be part of the smallest group.
  - surgical_fire 1y ago
    That's true. It's almost like the prisoners dillema. I think that in a world with no priority queueing, I would still not care about the only queue and show up at the gate at the last possible time. Problems would arise if everyone behaved like me. You would have everyone showing last minute and chaos would be the result. I wonder how the system would adapt to that.
    - BenjiWiebe 1y ago
      The thing is, not everyone is like you. So it would work better than the pathological case, at least.
- jasode 1y ago
  >while the sheep that paid wait in line. The supposed "sheep" that want to get on the plane first are people that want to get that precious overhead bin space to avoid checking a carry-on bag at the gate. Boarding last means there's no more bin space and the gate agent will put the bag in the belly of the plane. This adds extra hassles of waiting an extra 30+ minutes at the arrival terminal to wait for the bag on the conveyor belt and/or the bag getting lost. Yes, it can look "irrational" to hurry up and get in line because as some like to say, "No point in fighting to get on the plane first since we're all leaving on the same plane at the same time!" ... The issue isn't the departure time -- it's the limited bin space. EDIT add reply to : >bag put in the belly lf the place, and my bag was never lost. There are more complications because at some airports with widely separated terminals, going outside of the security zone to pick up a bag at the conveyor belt also means using slower buses instead of the tram to go to another terminal to get a car. E.g. at Dallas airport, the faster railway trams are only available inside the secured area. So not getting that bag in the overhead bin has domino effect of waiting for buses (another +30 minutes) which can add up to 1 extra hour of waiting at the arrival destination. Getting in line early for boarding is a small price to pay to avoid all of that.
rr808 1y ago
> My fellow Australians all feel a bit shit about the introduction of tipping in paywave and food service. That's unaustralian. We have legally enforced minimum wages and penalty rates. Turn that feature off. I think non-Americans need to take a stand against this. Refuse all tipping. Its a slippery slope - I know these guys are underpaid but if you start tipping the wages will just drop and we're all worse off.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- nilamo 1y ago
  Now that tips are tax free in the USA, they are unlikely to be going away.
  - CuriouslyC 1y ago
    Sadly, like Steve Buscemi, I'm going to have to look like an asshole to stand up for my principles. Mostly it means I'm not going to eat out.
    - tempodox 1y ago
      Sometimes you do have to have the courage to look like an asshole. But eating out is maybe not worth it.
  - Y-bar 1y ago
    If tips are no longer taxed, does that mean that they no longer count towards medicare, sick pay, pensions and such?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - SpaceNoodled 1y ago
      Surely. Nothing kind is done for kindness' sake by these cretins.
ikr678 1y ago
Australian FF points programs ceased being about flights long ago, now they are a complex web of data harvesting and cross promotion. Why are our airlines offering homeloans, health insurance and retirement investment funds?
carlosjobim 1y ago
> What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium That's simply discovering the true price of a product. We're living in a mega-inflationary period, but most people won't accept that a dollar or a euro is actually worth no more than 30 cents. So sellers are putting things which used to be included at a premium price. If people pay, then that is the price. It's highly annoying as a customer, but the general public won't accept that product and services they pay for cost double than they used to. At the same time the general public demands that their real estate and stock investments should be valued at triple or quadruple than what they used to.
cainxinth 1y ago
Uber and Lyft are expensive but anyone who says they are worse than what they replaced doesn’t remember well the heydays of taxis. Sure, people in big towns like NYC could always get one fairly easily, but everyone else was stuck dealing with whatever potentially shady operation they could dig out of a phonebook, and even then getting a car wasn’t guaranteed. Now, anyone anywhere can get a ride, often quickly. I’m not trying to excuse any predatory commercial practices directed at drivers or passengers, which are serious problems deserving of more strict regulation, but I absolutely do not want to go back to the old way.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- specproc 1y ago
  I'm really not sure old school taxis are actually that bad. I had two incidents in the UK recently where my app of choice failed me and I was quickly bailed out cheaper by googling "taxi $TOWN" and having a one minute conversation with an operator.
  - jen20 1y ago
    They are better than they used to be because of the competition. I remember a time not that long ago where getting a minicab was nigh on impossible, and one miraculously did show up, it would be primary so the driver could try to scam you.
    - jordanb 1y ago
      Not my experience using taxi call services in Chicago. Whenever I called them (before Uber) the taxi was prompt and courteous. The apps did three things that the call services did not do: 1) subsidize drivers with vc money for many years making drivers plentiful and fares cheap 2) use unlicensed cabs so they could saturate areas like Manhattan that had previously limited the amount of cabs that could operate 3) Deprive drivers of info they might use to reject fares they don't want (like destination).
martin-t 1y ago
I wonder why you called it asocial. Asocial people are great because they lack exactly this kind of status seeking and don't feel the need to engage in zero-sum social games. They just do what they like, which often is something actually productive or fun. This behavior is anti-social. It actively harms everyone else except the person (or group) doing it.
mikewarot 1y ago
I thought the name of Uber was all you needed to know, what kind of company names themselves after "Deutschland über alles", or Übermensch? The smug superiority was all the clue I needed.
m463 1y ago
> when everyone has wound up paying the premium just scale premiums in cost and number...

by ggm 1y ago

anonzzzies 1y ago

> there is next to no boarding advantage Especially on the discounters here in EU (especially Ryanair / Easyjet), i'm the only one in the non-priority queue, everyone else is in the priority queue. This used to of course not be the case; you paid extra and was in first. Now i'm usually in before 2/3th of the prio queue. Which is just weird. > about surge pricing. I got boiled slowly. Not sure how it is in the US (I used uber there on vacation in the past, but on vacation, I don't worry about prices too much), but here prices jump heavily during surge; often from 40->50->38 euros in a few minutes; I'll just keep an eye on the app for a few minutes and pick it at a good point. Taxis are almost always twice or sometimes (airport) 3x the price. I never take them as they are also often rude and I cannot rate them (these two are related). The last one I took was 3 weeks ago; I was 10 minute drive to the airport from some horrible 'business hotel' and I had an early flight, so I checked out, ordered an uber at 5am and waited; in front of me stopped a 'real' taxi (both are now legal and need licenses, but Taxi have Taxi on top); the driver got out to welcome his client which was not me but obviously he thought I was. We talked for a bit waiting for his real client and then he asked how much uber was; E15 I showed him. He said; cancel it and give me E15. Ok, so I got in front, the other client in the back. We arrived, and while waiting to park up, he shoved a terminal in my face with E15 on it, so I paid. We got out, he got the luggage from the other guy who asked 'how much is it'; E72,-. Cheers bro; made almost E90 for a 10 minute trip. Point being; hating uber (and I used to refuse to use them) is making your life very hard for very little benefit. The taxis needed a kick up the arse and they still didn't learn anything. Still need to order far upfront, their app sucks and far more expensive. Not sure how they can exist (of course I do, they don't know uber exists, how to use it or they refuse to use it). I find if you are with 2+ people, they are often cheaper than the trains which is quite mental really in a country where 'people should take the train if they can'.

jagrsw 1y ago
> but here prices jump heavily during surge Yup. The price jump isn't just a "surge." It's the algorithm calculating the highest price you'll tolerate without abandoning the app long-term, no matter availability of cars (which can be related, but from CFOs perspective that's not the metric to optimize) This personalized price discrimination is precisely the kind of manipulation geohot is describing. It's the same principle as (an old story) booking.com charging Mac/Safari/iphone users more.
- chii 1y ago
  and you reinforce it every time you accept the price. So you have to vote with your wallet. If you can't, or won't, then it just proves that their pricing algorithm has found "your" price, and so you don't get to keep your surplus value as it gets transfered to uber. This is why i, even if i can afford it, go for lowest price, most economically valuable buys. Always, without exception. Cannot allow them to win.
  - matthewdgreen 1y ago
    And this generally fails because Uber has more market power, given that there are only a few alternative options and many people will defect in order to get where they’re going. If customers could organize somehow and apply this principle collectively they could achieve some parity with Uber and it would affect that organization’s behavior more. But we’ve decided that regulation is bad, and the tech world hasn’t figured out how to build an Uber-bargaining collective app (which wouldn’t instantly itself defect and take a payoff from Uber.)
- SXX 1y ago
  Booking is the worst of them. You can open two tabs of one account next to each other and since one is from Google Maps pricing gonna be. 20% different. Also all kind of cashback or discount offers just bake even higher premium than Cashback they offer. So yeah booking hotels is more and more like a whack-a-mole game if you don't want to pay 30% more.

throw393949 1y ago

> who think needing clean underwear is weak. Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago. And boarding plane is much faster. I really do not want to pay for your luggage!

digitalPhonix 1y ago
Boarding the plane would be much faster if everyone didn’t have the maximum sized carry-on because they’re trying to avoid paying for a checked bag.
- nemothekid 1y ago
  The fact that they may make you check it anyways is annoying. I avoid checking a bag but because it’s price sensitive; its because so much of the airline experience is just idle dead time and I’d like to avoid spending an extra 45 minutes waiting around at baggage claim. Having everyone check bags is just trading waiting at one area for waiting in another area
  - mcintyre1994 1y ago
    Since they tend to do that at the check in gate and slow boarding, I think it’s more adding waiting at one area and also at another area.
wiseowise 1y ago
> Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago. So you carry high quality detergent, and clean washing machine with delicate setting, and then air dry your clothes? Nice.
- throw37383848 1y ago
  Yes, I carry a few grams of detergent powder in a zip lock bag. I wash in clean dry bag to avoid dirty sinks. And I air dry my clothes over night! It is simpler and faster than dealing with hotel laundry, laundromat or carrying extra 10kg of clothes around!

protocolture 1y ago

>My fellow Australians all feel a bit shit about the introduction of tipping in paywave and food service. That's unaustralian. We have legally enforced minimum wages and penalty rates. Turn that feature off. Eh I wouldnt speak for all of us. I like having the ability to reward contractors with some extra cash for a job well done. The issue is structurally relying on it. Shit, when I was 14 or so I worked as a baggage handler. And I will never forget the time we took on an overflow job from an american cruise liner at circular quay. Not only was I getting 20 bucks an hour (decent pay at the time), but I took home an extra 1100 or so completely tax free. Nothing as australian as cash in hand. >That said, I hated Uber, they actually offered to underwrite people breaking the law to get foot in the door Its always moral to break unjust laws. The taxi monopolies needed to be broken. Having those laws challenged thanks to the donation of US VC money was just a bonus. Actually theres still work to be done. Sydney CBD is still extremely hostile to rideshare.

ggm 1y ago
Noted. Some people here like tips as a discretionary option. I think folding it into the paywave terminal is .. naff.
- protocolture 1y ago
  Hard to do any kind of tip these days without adding it to the terminal.
stavros 1y ago
Yeah but it's one thing to tip for a job well done and a whole other thing to have to tip even for a job done middlingly.

cortesoft 1y ago

> What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again Wouldn't the market purist argue that this just means the good is mispriced, and tickets should actually be what the price is with the premium added? What you really need is to just raise the prices of the tickets and the price to jump the queue?

kragen 1y ago
The market purist might argue for a second-price auction for boarding order, where people board in the order of highest sealed bid for boarding order to lowest, but pay the amount bid by the person behind them in the sequence; or for "Paris Metro Pricing" where everyone being in the "priority" line results in a large fraction of them opting not to pay the premium for the next flight they take. Or they might think up something I haven't thought of.
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  CGP Grey on "The better boarding method airlines won't use" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
  - kragen 1y ago
    Thanks for the link! This is a good example of the use of the medium of video (animation) to present information more clearly than alternative media could. He's concerned not about allocating the suffering optimally (to the people least willing to pay to reduce it, for example because they are in excellent health or couldn't afford the flight otherwise) but about reducing the total amount of suffering, which is far more important. In other contexts, the main benefit of market mechanisms is precisely that they vastly reduce suffering, for example by stimulating the production of socially valuable goods. Is there a way market mechanisms for boarding order could have such a benefit? For example, by rewarding people who board in an order that minimizes overall boarding delay? I'm skeptical.
imtringued 1y ago

Neil44 1y ago

If you wanted to be generous you could say it the other way around, moving some features to premium allows people who value time and money differently to still get the bulk of the value they want out of the proposition. I don't for one minute think that's the actual conversation had in HQ but it's still valid I guess.

taneq 1y ago

> now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage Why would you want to be on the plane earlier than necessary? Only thing I can think of is better access to the overhead lockers, which fill up fast these days.

FridgeSeal 1y ago
Less so the early boarding, but the priority baggage is nice, especially after long international flights. Getting on the flight 15 minutes early also beats dawdling in a slow moving like for 20. Lounge access is worth it alone! Especially on international connections!!
- pards 1y ago
  > Lounge access is worth it alone Airport food & coffee is expensive and often not very good. At least with lounge access, I get that subpar food & coffee for free plus somewhere to sit. With a family, that can save a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday.
  - BLKNSLVR 1y ago
    > With a family, that can save a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday. How long are y'all sitting around in lounges? If a small meal / snack saves a significant chunk of money off the cost of a holiday then one of us is not doing it right. Flights and accommodation are the lions share of costs as far as my limited experience goes. (P.S. I was meant to be leaving for Japan this morning, but family medical emergency has ruled it out. Flights were $5,500. I'd hope that airport food costs wouldn't raise a blip on a radar set to that scale).

varelse 1y ago

[dead]

CrulesAll 1y ago

"how that didn't get them excluded as a corporate scofflaw is beyond me)" The essence to breaking crony capitalism. No prosecution. No change. Fines do not work. For a start, it's the shareholder that pays. Prosecute the executives with more than just a wag of the finger, and it changes behaviour.

surgical_fire 1y ago

> For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again There's a freedom that comes with not caring and just accepting I am last in the line. I don't pay the premium and I can sit and relax in the lobby while the sheep that paid wait in line. Only when the queue is nearly depleted it is my turn.

nosianu 1y ago
Though, that too only works if it is not adopted by the majority :) The actual strategy is not that you are last, but that you choose to be part of the smallest group.
- surgical_fire 1y ago
  That's true. It's almost like the prisoners dillema. I think that in a world with no priority queueing, I would still not care about the only queue and show up at the gate at the last possible time. Problems would arise if everyone behaved like me. You would have everyone showing last minute and chaos would be the result. I wonder how the system would adapt to that.
  - BenjiWiebe 1y ago
    The thing is, not everyone is like you. So it would work better than the pathological case, at least.
jasode 1y ago
>while the sheep that paid wait in line. The supposed "sheep" that want to get on the plane first are people that want to get that precious overhead bin space to avoid checking a carry-on bag at the gate. Boarding last means there's no more bin space and the gate agent will put the bag in the belly of the plane. This adds extra hassles of waiting an extra 30+ minutes at the arrival terminal to wait for the bag on the conveyor belt and/or the bag getting lost. Yes, it can look "irrational" to hurry up and get in line because as some like to say, "No point in fighting to get on the plane first since we're all leaving on the same plane at the same time!" ... The issue isn't the departure time -- it's the limited bin space. EDIT add reply to : >bag put in the belly lf the place, and my bag was never lost. There are more complications because at some airports with widely separated terminals, going outside of the security zone to pick up a bag at the conveyor belt also means using slower buses instead of the tram to go to another terminal to get a car. E.g. at Dallas airport, the faster railway trams are only available inside the secured area. So not getting that bag in the overhead bin has domino effect of waiting for buses (another +30 minutes) which can add up to 1 extra hour of waiting at the arrival destination. Getting in line early for boarding is a small price to pay to avoid all of that.

rr808 1y ago

> My fellow Australians all feel a bit shit about the introduction of tipping in paywave and food service. That's unaustralian. We have legally enforced minimum wages and penalty rates. Turn that feature off. I think non-Americans need to take a stand against this. Refuse all tipping. Its a slippery slope - I know these guys are underpaid but if you start tipping the wages will just drop and we're all worse off.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nilamo 1y ago
Now that tips are tax free in the USA, they are unlikely to be going away.
- CuriouslyC 1y ago
  Sadly, like Steve Buscemi, I'm going to have to look like an asshole to stand up for my principles. Mostly it means I'm not going to eat out.
  - tempodox 1y ago
    Sometimes you do have to have the courage to look like an asshole. But eating out is maybe not worth it.
- Y-bar 1y ago
  If tips are no longer taxed, does that mean that they no longer count towards medicare, sick pay, pensions and such?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - SpaceNoodled 1y ago
    Surely. Nothing kind is done for kindness' sake by these cretins.

ikr678 1y ago

Australian FF points programs ceased being about flights long ago, now they are a complex web of data harvesting and cross promotion. Why are our airlines offering homeloans, health insurance and retirement investment funds?

carlosjobim 1y ago

> What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium That's simply discovering the true price of a product. We're living in a mega-inflationary period, but most people won't accept that a dollar or a euro is actually worth no more than 30 cents. So sellers are putting things which used to be included at a premium price. If people pay, then that is the price. It's highly annoying as a customer, but the general public won't accept that product and services they pay for cost double than they used to. At the same time the general public demands that their real estate and stock investments should be valued at triple or quadruple than what they used to.

cainxinth 1y ago

Uber and Lyft are expensive but anyone who says they are worse than what they replaced doesn’t remember well the heydays of taxis. Sure, people in big towns like NYC could always get one fairly easily, but everyone else was stuck dealing with whatever potentially shady operation they could dig out of a phonebook, and even then getting a car wasn’t guaranteed. Now, anyone anywhere can get a ride, often quickly. I’m not trying to excuse any predatory commercial practices directed at drivers or passengers, which are serious problems deserving of more strict regulation, but I absolutely do not want to go back to the old way.

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specproc 1y ago
I'm really not sure old school taxis are actually that bad. I had two incidents in the UK recently where my app of choice failed me and I was quickly bailed out cheaper by googling "taxi $TOWN" and having a one minute conversation with an operator.
- jen20 1y ago
  They are better than they used to be because of the competition. I remember a time not that long ago where getting a minicab was nigh on impossible, and one miraculously did show up, it would be primary so the driver could try to scam you.
  - jordanb 1y ago
    Not my experience using taxi call services in Chicago. Whenever I called them (before Uber) the taxi was prompt and courteous. The apps did three things that the call services did not do: 1) subsidize drivers with vc money for many years making drivers plentiful and fares cheap 2) use unlicensed cabs so they could saturate areas like Manhattan that had previously limited the amount of cabs that could operate 3) Deprive drivers of info they might use to reject fares they don't want (like destination).

martin-t 1y ago

I wonder why you called it asocial. Asocial people are great because they lack exactly this kind of status seeking and don't feel the need to engage in zero-sum social games. They just do what they like, which often is something actually productive or fun. This behavior is anti-social. It actively harms everyone else except the person (or group) doing it.

mikewarot 1y ago

I thought the name of Uber was all you needed to know, what kind of company names themselves after "Deutschland über alles", or Übermensch? The smug superiority was all the clue I needed.

m463 1y ago

> when everyone has wound up paying the premium just scale premiums in cost and number...