19 ms·

Fairphone 6 is switching to a new design that's even more sustainable

402 points by Bluestein 1y ago

neoromantique 1y ago
Manufactured entirely in China and no headphone jack, that's a pass for me.
- guerrilla 1y ago
  TINA.
  - neoromantique 1y ago
    ...what?
    - guerrilla 1y ago
      There is no alternative.
      - neoromantique 1y ago
        I don't think there are fully non-chinese alternatives, but there absolutely are other phones that are not fully manufactured in china. Hell, even some iPhones aren't entirely made in china.
- pkulak 1y ago
  I'm curious to know your current phone that passes that test.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    Librem 5 or Liberty phone?
  - Defletter 1y ago
    Happens a lot: if the more ethical choice isn't perfect, I might as well stick with the very unethical choices.
    - neoromantique 1y ago
      This isn't binary, the virtue signaled "ethical" choice does not offset the things you have to give up for it. If you don't care about phone manufacturing being basically completely in China, then all power to you, but as I live in country that has been illegally trade embargo-ed by China just five years ago, I do care about this a lot.
  - kuschku 1y ago
    Some Sony Xperias were until recently manufactured in Japan (and still have headphone javk & sd card slot)
  - karel-3d 1y ago
    Samsung phones are mostly made in Vietnam.
  - neoromantique 1y ago
    My current phone isn't asking me to make a lot of sacrifices for the sake of "ethics". I am willing to make many of them, but the least requirement for me is at least a good effort of moving off China for manufacturing (Ideally EU, of course, but we all know that's unrealistic). I already have picked up standalone music player to deal with missing 3.5mm jack, I also have picked up a small camera with a pancake lens that I carry daily to account for not having great camera in phone, but I'm not willing to spend high mid-tier phone money on an entry level hardware if it is fully manufactured in China, sorry. I used to run Xperia's, despite horrid software, but now I'm on Google Pixel for the lack of better options.
ElijahLynn 1y ago
Does it have QI2 wireless charging? article doesn't mention if it does, does not
strangecasts 1y ago
Was lucky enough to get my Fairphone 4 on sale, but I'd happily pay full price now - even though the Fairphones are pricey for the specs, unless you absolutely need 24 cores etc. I'd say they are worth it, knowing the company is at least trying to improve the parts supply chain, and knowing you stand a chance of fixing the devices yourself (luckily I've only had to replace the USB-C port, which was trivial) About the only thing I'd ding Fairphone on is not communicating earlier that they were having trouble getting Android 14 out to the FP4s, but the security patches have been consistent. (Okay I'm also dinging them on getting rid of the headphone jack, yes I know it's a lost cause... )
- onli 1y ago
  Not really a lost cause in general, there are a bunch of regular phones that have a headphone jack. But fairphone seems unwilling to listen to all the feedback they are getting telling them this is a blocker, so yes, in that way it is a lost cause there. A shame really.
- exabrial 1y ago
  +1 for headphone jack. At least they got the MicroSD correct!
- lawn 1y ago
  I've been very happy with my Fairphone 4 that I've had for 4 years now running CalyxOS. I could probably use it for a few more years but I may upgrade to the 6 if the speakers/microphone are better (and to support the company).
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    > I could probably use it for a few more years but I may upgrade to the 6 if the speakers/microphone are better I don't get this. Isn't the whole concept of the company modular parts? Shouldn't you be able to put the better speakers in your existing phone?
    - Foobar8568 1y ago
exabrial 1y ago
ahhh I wish GrapheneOS was supported on these!
- onli 1y ago
  CalyxOS support Fairphones. It is a better option anyway, also supports bootloader relocking etc.
  - dsr_ 1y ago
    Is the combination proof against pre-unlock attacks with Cellebrite? (I would like the answer to be yes, and I would like the answer to be yes for many more phones and OS combos. I don't think it is.)
    - onli 1y ago
      I don't know. It seems unclear to me which capabilities those attack devices have and which security measures would be required. The locked bootloader, short update interval and the security option to block unknown USB devices might protect against that, might not. I saw no statement in either direction from the project.
  - bramhaag 1y ago
    In which ways is CalyxOS "better"? This comparison is pretty damning: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm Calyx is _not_ a hardened OS, and runs on devices with insecure hardware and firmware (like a Fairphone). Additionally, app compatibility suffers because they use microG instead of proper sandboxed Gapps, and also lacks many QoL features that guard against hostile apps (storage scopes, contact scopes, ...).
    - userbinator 1y ago
      The insecurity is freedom.
    - onli 1y ago
godelski 1y ago
They mention the Pixel and I just got to say, I wish someone would bring back the fingerprint reader on the back of the phone. That was seriously the best solution. Fastest way to unlock your phone, because no matter how slow the fingerprint reader is you activate it while pulling it out of your pocket. I honestly don't get why people like Face ID more (what I currently use). Someone, please bring this back
- aidenn0 1y ago
  It's not exactly a flagship phone, but the Unihertz Jelly Max has a fingerprint reader on the back.
  - smallerfish 1y ago
    The problem with Unihertz though is that they lose interest in fixing software bugs approximately 5 minutes after lauching new phones. And, based on my experience, they tend to launch with a lot of bugs.
- andrewmcwatters 1y ago
  I hate Face ID so much. I hate being asked for my PIN for every single little thing I do. I already unlocked my phone, please stop asking me. If I grabbed it, YES, I WANT TO DO THE THING! -Exhausted Apple user also wanting easier authentication
  - godelski 1y ago
    Or the minute it actually takes to unlock my phone because it missed the first one and then asks for my pin and activates right before I finish entering my pin
  - TylerE 1y ago
    The one thing that grinds my gears is how they made it mandatory for lock page widgets. I don’t need my smart lights faceid protected when I’m trying to turn them on in the middle of the night
- 1y ago
msgodel 1y ago
They should switch to an SOC with mainline Linux support so you don't have to throw it out in three years.
- ppseafield 1y ago
  Which SoC should they switch to? Google's Pixel phones for Android 16's release just updated[0] their kernels to 6.1, which means the bleeding edge kernel version for Android phones is a release from December 2022. What Qualcomm SoCs are supported by this kernel, and how fast are they? [0] https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-linux-6-1-android-15-qpr2-3498932/ https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-linux-6-1-android-15-...
  - msgodel 1y ago
    If the drivers were upstreamed it would be supported by the latest kernel.org kernel even before release. AFAIK outside the Pinephone and Liberem 5 no hardware manufacturers explicitly target this and only 10 year+ old Qualcomm (other vendors such as Freescale tend to behave much better) SOCs have open source graphics drivers because the SOC vendors themselves often refuse to support their own hardware. Google is able to do this because they build their own SOCs (probably because they got tired of being jerked around by Qualcomm) but still don't merge their stuff upstream (or at least they don't last I checked.)
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    Android 16 uses the latest LTS branch of Linux which is 6.12.
- jacek 1y ago
  > They should switch to an SOC with mainline Linux support so you don't have to throw it out in three years. Starting 20th of June this year (so 3 days ago) every new phone released in European Union will need to have software updates for at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on the market. This might be the first one released under new regulations. Also looking at Fairphone's history it looks like they really support their phones for a long time.
tetris11 1y ago
> Snapdragon 7s Gen 3 GPU: Adreno 810 - 895-1050 - 256 shaders CPU cores: 8 - 1x2500 (Cortex-A720) - 3x2400 (Cortex-A720) - 4x1800 (Cortex-A520) For anyone wondering, MHz.
fooqux 1y ago
Still wish I could actually buy one. I know the market for a phone like this is probably quite small in the USA, but I'd still love having the option. Fingers are still crossed that the upcoming announcement mentions other countries.
- BlackjackCF 1y ago
  I heard about Fairphones and really wanted one. I was disappointed to find that they have poor support in the US.
  - fooqux 1y ago
    I think by 'poor' you mean 'none'? Last I knew if you bought one in the USA (from eBay, having a friend ship it to you, etc) you have zero support from Fairphone. There was actually an entry in a FAQ about this. I can't blame them, I just wish it were different.
    - NewJazz 1y ago
      Yeah hard to justify a repairable phone when sourcing parts for repairs is going to be a major headache :/
- dnautics 1y ago
  I (US) have had a fairphone for a year. you can puchase one from murena and it works just fine.
icy 1y ago
Really wish they’d make a 5,5” version of this. Desperately holding on to my 13 mini.
pkulak 1y ago
Man, would I ever love to buy one of these. But last I checked, even if you import to the USA, you won't have most of the bands you need. :(
Spunkie 1y ago
Still no headphone jack makes this a nonstarter, lame.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  How often are you listening to music on your phone while it's charging? (because otherwise you can always just attach an adapter onto your headphones to make it USB-C). Seems like a weird hang up.
  - GoatInGrey 1y ago
    So when I reach the trailhead and realize that my dongle is back at home, I can still use my headphones to listen to a podcast as I hike. Or maybe I'm out in public with others and want them to listen to something but my dongle is at home so I now need to play audio over the speakers in a public setting. It comes down to having choice and not being funnelled into overpriced wireless earbuds. Which Fairphone began selling with the release of the Fairphone 4, their first phone without the jack.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      What else are you plugging your headphones into? Again, the pitch here is leaving the dongle basically permanently attached to the headphones, effectively turning them into a set of usb-c wired headphones. I was hesitant about abandoning the headphone jack, too, until I realized that the higher-end phones I'd effectively locked myself out of charge in 10% of the time.
      - interloxia 1y ago
        Swap the dongle for a pd friendly y cable.
      - Topfi 1y ago
        > What else are you plugging your headphones into? My Macbook, my work laptop, my e-piano, my Note9, my BTR7, ... Don't get me wrong, I understand far too well why no new flagship offers the jack anymore and wireless/USB-C is truly amazingly convenient for the vast majority of users, even audio quality wise, but sadly we are still very far from either being universal, either because the standard is still 1/8 or 1/4 inch or latency is key (in the case of instruments both). Also, USB-C ports are finite so using the small 3.5mm port is often preferable. So just keeping the dongle plugged in, sadly not an option. Apple Dongle DACs are easily lost too, ask me how I know. Am very far removed from the mainstream customer and accept that in any case, my dream phone would likely bankrupt whoever was dumb enough to bankroll it, so I'll just deal with the compromise.
9283409232 1y ago
My dream phone is a Fairphone running GrapheneOS
- summermusic 1y ago
  The GrapheneOS developers had this to say about Fairphone back in 2021: “It's not possible for GrapheneOS to support @Fairphone devices because they're far from meeting even the most basic security requirements. They haven't come close and it doesn't appear to be a priority for them.“ I also would love a Fairphone-like device running GrapheneOS, but I don’t think Fairphone is going to be the company to deliver to GrapheneOS’s high standards. Source: https://x.com/grapheneos/status/1448394015242604551 https://x.com/grapheneos/status/1448394015242604551
  - 9283409232 1y ago
    I remember them saying that. I would've hoped Fairphone would up their hardware security standards since then.
    - craftkiller 1y ago
      From a couple days ago: > It's not feasible for Fairphone to make a device meeting our requirements any time soon. https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462
      - 9283409232 1y ago
        Curious who the OEM they are talking to is.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
m3kw9 1y ago
Buying a phone because us sustainable would be better served if you did something else in place of it. There is a huge trade off between sustainability and the usefulness
ryukafalz 1y ago
I use a Fairphone 5 and plan to stick with it for a while (after all, that's the point!) but this does look very nice. I do wish they would sell them in the US and had more US band support. I got mine on a trip to Europe and it works here, but not always consistently. :) That's probably the one thing that'd get me to upgrade and repurpose this one with PostmarketOS.
cantalopes 1y ago
I love concept but the only thing that's keeping me from buying it is that it's too big. They don't make small phones anymore:( the last perfect model i had a chanc3 to have was huawei p10- a perfect 5.1 display
- guappa 1y ago
  unihertz makes small phones!
  - jakegmaths 1y ago
    Indeed. But sadly, they don't update them. The Unihertz Jelly Star is stuck on the June 2023 (yes... 2 years ago!) Android security update.
    - guappa 1y ago
      Yeah not ideal… then again… samsung actually pushed an update with an overlay that shows ads on some old models. I had one I used to show the forecast, attached to a wall. I had to reset and to factory and forbid all updates or ads would appear on top of my app.
- mrheosuper 1y ago
  Yeah im still rocking ip13 mini, the last true flagship small phone. I was having such high hope for the 16e to be successor of 13 mini. But oh boy...
- tosmatos 1y ago
  I feel you. A repairable phone that's 5 inches would be so perfect. I miss my the Xperia X Compact so bad, I loved that phone, I had Lineage OS on it and it was great. It wasn't easy to repair though. Now I've got a Jelly Star, and it's pretty much the same problems, plus no updates in a while.
blakeashleyjr 1y ago
Dreams: >Framework-like upgradability / repairability / modularity >Support for GrapheneOS >Sold in USA
- bramhaag 1y ago
  GrapheneOS support for Fairphone is unlikely to ever happen. Their hardware is too insecure to satisfy GOS's reasonable requirements [1] and have stated that they aren't interested in improving it [2]. Software is also lacking and they've partnered with Murena [3], who has been slinging shit at GOS [4]. On a more positive note, due to the AOSP/Pixel drama there now is a real possibility a different major OEM will be supported: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices [2] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114733211017800480 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114733211017800480 [3] https://murena.com/ https://murena.com/ [4] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114235396540176085 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114235396540176085
  - beeflet 1y ago
    I think that secure elements pose a greater disadvantage to the consumer due to vendor lockdown than the advantages in physical security make up for.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - fooqux 1y ago
    That's excellent news that they're partnering with an OEM to make something. Here's hoping it's someone like Framework that has sustainability in mind as well.
    - noisy_boy 1y ago
      Why not Framework themselves? By now, they have brand recognition to certain extent and a ready customer base - I think a Framework phone with choices of GrapheneOS or LineageOS or standard Googleized option could be a very compelling product. That is if they can sort out their availability gaps.
tguvot 1y ago
But will it support VoLTE with USA providers ?
NoboruWataya 1y ago
Always interested in new Fairphone releases! I cannot justify a new phone while my Samsung S10 is still alive and kicking but I do think a bit about what I will replace it with when it finally dies. I am very much drawn to the Fairphone, but the price to quality ratio is quite high compared to the mainstream flagship phones (of course, I understand why). And when the company is young it is hard to know how credible the repairability promise is. The other phone I lean towards is a second-hand Pixel (somewhere in the Pixel 7-9 range most likely). Would be very interested to see how much of an improvement it is over the FP5. Fairphones seem to get negative reviews but I think that is due to people not really being able to look past the price-to-quality ratio compared to phones that don't care about ethics.
userbinator 1y ago
When unscrewed, users are likely to be greeted with an option to remove the battery as well as it isn’t attached to the device with the help of glue but rather with additional screws. What a horrible state of things that "not gluing the battery in place but screwing it in" is considered an improvement. IMHO smartphones have been on a horrible decline ever since ~2016. Before then, most Androids had [1] easily replaceable battery, no tools required at all; [2] microSD slot; [3] headphone jack; [4] (many) dual SIM; [5] (many cheaper models) easily rooted or unlocked by default. Now all we get are faster CPUs, more (non-expandable) storage, and far too many cameras. There was also this memorable ad from Samsung: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0
- fulafel 1y ago
  The article is misleading here in that the earlier Fairphones had removable batteries without glue.
  - lawn 1y ago
    The Fairphone 4 at least you could replace the battery without any screws at all. It took seconds and it's been extremely useful for me.
    - littlestymaar 1y ago
      On the flip side, the battery of my Fairphone 3 had a tendency to disconnect when it was shaken too strongly for its taste, rebooting the phone… So I'd consider screws to be an improvement actually.
      - crossroadsguy 1y ago
        If in 2025 your unscrewed battery is disconnecting evening at vigorous shakes it is not your fault at all. So that doesn't explain the "bring in the screws".
        1y ago
rglullis 1y ago
I will repeat again what I'm saying since they announced the Fairphone 4: being able to repair the phone is good, but what I really would like to see is for them to go the framework route and design a phone with a standardized form factor. It doesn't need to be crazy modular, I'd just like to be able to upgrade mainboard/camera/display/storage/battery independently, and I'd like to push product development around these components instead of coming up with yet another iteration of an ethical-but-full-of-compromises device every two years. Promising 8 years of upgrades is only useful if your hardware is not sub-par. The Fairphone 3+ I bought was already "meh" when I bought it, after 3 years it felt sluggish. I wanted to upgrade parts of it, not a whole new device.
- cocoto 1y ago
  Your phone feels slow either because you are now used to faster devices or because the software used is becoming bloated. There is no reason a phone feels slower except for these two reasons (or maybe if thermal got worse over time but it should not). Personally I don’t care if a phone feels slower compared to other devices as long as it is not becoming slower because of crap software updates.
  - rglullis 1y ago
    It is not just the CPU. The camera was sub-par, the display was just okay, storage capacity is always important if you are like me and don't want to be dependent on the cloud... all those things can be improved independently, and consumers would benefit if they could upgrade them whenever the price/performance/availability reached a satisfactory point.
codedokode 1y ago
The problem might be the replacement parts availability in the future. My 10 years old phone battery stopped working but it is impossible to find a new one and so otherwise perfectly working phone is unusable.
0x38B 1y ago
It’s a funny place to be where the color of the power button is news, though not a headline.
thdhhghgbhy 1y ago
Can it actually take and make calls, and hold a battery charge yet?
squarefoot 1y ago
All phones eventually become obsolete, but their guts could be used in so many ways. I'd love for example if someone made an enclosure acting also as multi port docking station so that old phones with unlocked bootloader (Fairphone being one of them) could be reflashed with a different operating system then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses. Seeing all that perfectly good electronics going into landfills because planned obsolescence says so just irritates me. Can we do that at least for unlocked ones? Framework did something similar for their laptop mainboards, minus the docking station.function as they already have more ports than a phone. Any chances that this could be doable with Fairphone hardware?
- dvdkon 1y ago
  It's certainly technically possible. Phone motherboards have limited wired IO, but USB host mode is enough for a lot of things. The problem is how locked-down most phones are, and how hard it is to modify their software. Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). That all means starting an "ecosystem" of accessories and new non-phone software is costly and has an uncertain future. Personally I think the biggest issue is the theft-prevention functionality that means a phone picked out of e-waste is basically bricked (without some exploit). There's companies making new motherboards out of salvaged Intel chipsets, I'm sure it would be possible to build a business around the reuse of phones, but right now there are just too many obstacles. I think this could be solved with new legislation. At least here, doing anything with e-waste is already highly regulated. Giving registered e-waste processors the ability to unlock the bootloader of any device would reduce waste, and make unlocked phones something you could reliably buy in bulk. Then I think we could see the kind of aftermarket support for phones.
  - WhyNotHugo 1y ago
    > Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used. Even if Fairphone would like to keep phones usable, Google can decide otherwise at any time. I started a thread on this topic on their forums, and they seem to have no interest in fixing this. I wouldn't consider hardware sustainable if it needs to talk to Google's servers to be used and remains completely locked down otherwise. If you find one of these devices in a drawer in 15 years, and Google has changed their server's API, then the phone is as usable as any other brand (nitpick: you have to "enter a contractual agreement" with Google, and not create an account. Folks on the forums seemed to be obsessed with the choice of word around this, although practically, it makes no difference).
butz 1y ago
Why phones are so huge nowadays? How are you people carrying them? Oh how I wish for a compact sized phone, something like iPhone 13 mini, but with USB-C connector. And those camera bumps, don't get me started on those. If you cannot fit camera into phone, why not make whole device a bit thicker.
- uncircle 1y ago
  I am still angry at Apple for dropping the mini line. I know it wasn’t popular, but if there’s anyone that can afford having a line that “only” sells a few hundred thousand units it’s Apple. I guess that’s what happens when the company is run by a bean counter :(
- karel-3d 1y ago
  People are not buying small phones. If you want a small phone, the best thing are flip-phones, there is tons of them now.
  - qwertfisch 1y ago
    These are not smartphones. You cannot do anything with them except phone, SMS, some alarms and make pictures with very crappy quality. So these are effectively just phones, like 20 years ago. They are not extensible by any app, just what the manufacturer adds for factory provided programs. I would be small (lightweight) phones. I cannot bare these 180–220g devices. If I want something heavy I buy a tablet.
    - karel-3d 1y ago
      No? Galaxy Z Flip is a smartphone. Razr is a smartphone.
  - xorcist 1y ago
    > People are not buying small phones How can one buy what is not being manufactured? The few small-ish phones that have existed have mostly been cheap and underpowered.
stiray 1y ago
I am still waiting for Fairphone and Graphene OS collaboration. This is match made in heaven. Any Fairphone/GrapheneOS developer reading this? Just do it, document if something is not secure enough for you, but do it. Nothing to think about, you fit together like hand and a glove and any seconds thoughts are depriving the planet of THE PHONE! Pick the cash we will throw at you and make second generation with the cpu GrapheneOS wants, that will make the /r/GrapheneOS members eyes shine, drooling and crying of joy at the same time. +throw them in a few hardware switches for camera, mic, connectivity,... disabling. No need to wait to be perfect in first iteration (and due to that craziness and perfectionism will never happen), to gain the possibility to be perfect in second or third. I would love so much to stop buying Google Pixel phones just to install Graphene OS and protect myself from Google and its ecosystem, it seems so counterproductive.
- tomgag 1y ago
  I, for one, would buy one. Make it small and I would buy 3.
  - teekert 1y ago
    Me 3. It looks like they really won't though: [0] It's such a shame, vision-wise the GrapheneOS crew must be much closer to the FairPhone team than they are to Google and Samsung, one would guess... But the GrapheneOS people find security tech (such as secure enclaves) and update cycle very important. After the bad Pixel news, they find Samsung to be the best fit: [1] I would (as many here) also hope that they could somehow make the FairPhone crew step up in their security practices, help them do it. They would be the golden combo, except perhaps for things like camera quality and raw speed/AI chips. And possible the niche is just to small to be profitable. But a man can dream... I'd pay 1.5 to 2x normal price for a FairPhone/GrapheneOS combi, it would align with my values in almost all dimensions. And then I'd buy a Pebble and just be happy. I really don't know what to do when my iPhone 12 mini dies. I do like the iPhone, but I also liked my OnePlus3 with LineageOS. I was originally planning on a Pixel/GrapheneOS after this phone, but that dream has shatter I think... [0] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721751616786103 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721751616786103 [1] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721967328643999 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721967328643999
Iolaum 1y ago
I bought FP4 three years ago and had a decent run with it until an update happened that made my phone unable to connect to my carrier (no calls or internet :( ). After a lot of back and forth with support they admitted that LTE on my country (Greece) was not officially supported ! They did refund me after that admission so I bear them no ill will. I hope they succeed in their mission and if their phone worked for me, I d still be using it.
agile-gift0262 1y ago
phone wishlist: - user-replaceable battery - 7+ years of security updates - iPhone 13 mini size - iPhone 13 mini camera quality - plastic exterior - headphone jack - fairphone-style sustainability, repairability and part availability - GrapheneOS compatibility - fingerprint reader either on the back or on the power button I miss my Pyxel 4a :-(
- NekkoDroid 1y ago
  > - fingerprint reader either on the back or on the power button How about both: do it like the LG G6 and put the power button on the back and make it the fingerprint reader :) (unironically though it was probably my favorite fingerprint reader I've had so far)
- crossroadsguy 1y ago
  The size is not coming back. Anything else might or might not but the size is not and it's sad. My only guess is - some kind of bespoke/niche phone maker with a good profit margin might make it "on demand". Of course not "one order from customer, one order to their factory" kinda setup - you get the drift. Some kind of blocking/reserving fee for priority shipping etc. I had kind of hoped Nothing could be that OEM. But naah! Why would they! They literally are "yet another smaller OEM" in the crowd of other smaller OEMs with that gimmicky backlight as the only differentiator.
  - craftkiller 1y ago
    > My only guess is - some kind of bespoke/niche phone maker with a good profit margin might make it Unihertz makes some very small android phones. I've never purchased one so I can't vouch for their quality.
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      They are about what you expect. Durable yes, long battery life yes, small screen, crappy camera, bad modem. The one gigantic downside is that the software gets updated never. They launch with the bugs they launch with and those are the bugs you get forever. They have no interest in allowing any sort of custom rom support, so you get what you get.
sp0ck 1y ago
Add e-sim so I can use it as my all-around planet travel phone and I'm sold.
- alfons_foobar 1y ago
  Pretty sure it has eSIM (at least my FP4 has it...)
mytailorisrich 1y ago
I don't see anythng more "sustainable" in this phone compared to mainstream ones. Making it a bit more modular or repairable does not make it "sustainable".
- choffee 1y ago
  They have a post about some of the reasons that the 5 was sustainable. It's not just the repair and modular parts but the whole supply chain. It' rarely gets talked about here as this is a mostly tech audience who focus on features, which are important, but Fairphone is more focused on the impact of the manufacture. https://www.fairphone.com/en/2023/08/30/is-the-fairphone-5-the-most-sustainable-phone-in-the-world/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2023/08/30/is-the-fairphone-5-t...
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    That article subtly shifts from "sustainable" to "most sustainable"... It can be so while not really being sustainable. "Fair materials" means nothing. "100% e-waste neutral" is the same as claiming that you are "100% carbon neutral" because you buy carbon "offsets". It's dubious. There are real positives, though: "100% recycled tin solder paste, 80% recycled steel, 75% post-consumer recycled plastics in the battery frame"
    - bcye 1y ago
      > So, for every Fairphone 5 we make, we responsibly collect and recycle 212 grams of electronic waste. And a lot of that waste is taken from countries where e-waste recycling is not a reality yet. It does not seem like they are buying offsets. Also why would Fair materials mean nothing?
      - mytailorisrich 1y ago
        They are claiming that they are recycling something to offset their phones... that's nice but it tells us very little. "Fair materials" means nothing in itself and certainly nothing in relation to sustainability.
IlikeKitties 1y ago
Fairphone has yet to figure out how to deal with updates in a timely and stable matter and we are 5 phones in. And all their phones consistently had hardware issues of some kind or another. I wish them good luck, their phones are the kind of device i'd like to buy but i'll do that after they have proven that they can actually deliver what they promise.
KoolKat23 1y ago
At this point, having such a tiny screen I'm sure adds to the price.
crossroadsguy 1y ago
Any <>Phone or <>Fone is pretty much useless for someone like me if it requires me to being logged into the "whole device" with a Google A/c and the irony is without that almost anything important on my phone (banks, payment/transfer, stock/investments, WhatsApp, delivery, transport, Govt services) will JUST NOT WORK in most cases so it becomes a non starter. Or Force Google to not track things out of certain apps and giving customers choice to not use those apps at all e.g Gmail, Google Maps etc (or use w/o logging in like you can do on iOS. A good way would be to letting OEMs decide the "Android Account" in Android OS instead of the mandatory Google Account. Not only opening up of the play store (I am not sure how helpful that would be) but another crucial criminal hurdle here is Play Integrity API [0] and apps using it. By this Google made it apps choose between the notions of "be secured" or "actively decide to remain unsecured". [0]: Call the Integrity API at important moments in your app to check that user actions and requests are coming from your unmodified app binary, installed by Google Play, running on a genuine Android device ---- Yes, Apple does it too but they have proven to not yet started tracking and god as much as I hate Apple and it's walled garden they are still far less distracting and cluttered. Besides they don't just log me into everything and anything like mail etc. --- And the size. Naah, if you are making yet another phablet then I am not even looking to switch. Good luck thank you bye-bye.
frank20022 1y ago
All my smartphones lasted 4+ years, except ironically the FP3 that only lasted 2 years. I really wanted to like it, but assembly quality was terrible, battery was falling on the floor all the time, and max volume for calls was almost unaudible, an apparently rare problem they have been unable to solve. I hope they have improved since and wish them the best, but as sick of Apple I am, I am also too afraid to try FP again...
robertlagrant 1y ago
It makes sense that as the insane levels of innovation tail off and phones are becoming commodities again, this sort of thing will start happening.
nick88msn 1y ago
The only missing thing would be the ability to swap motherboard like framework laptop when you need to upgrade in 5-7 years from now.
tigrezno 1y ago
I'd love to buy one but I'm seeing they are reeeally slow at software upgrades
sylware 1y ago
I have to buy such a smart phone hardware: issue, I won't run android for sure, probably something based on a super custom linux. I will need open source and _LEAN_ drivers (including their SDK) with complete hardware programming manuals for at least the modem (the critical part, and the drivers on complex hardware is NEVER enough, not to mention the official list of known hardware bugs) and the remaining hardware blocks.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Lemme know when you get all that.
  - sylware 1y ago
    To be fair, I am more interested in a 4G/5G modem to connect some modular computer. A smart phone is an expensive one. Do you know of a simple modern 4G/5G modem, USB? Only IPv4/IPv6 bridge, I guess you need USB CDC or something for that (NDIS is deprecated)? Any tip?
    - msgodel 1y ago
      This looks like the chip that was used in the Pinephone as well as the modem card in the machine I'm typing this on. It works well on Linux although sometimes it's not available after waking from suspend (I think that was fixed although I've gotten used to not expecting it to be so I haven't been checking it.) It's pretty easy to dial the PPP (IP) connection with network manager + modem manager, doing it from scratch with expect scripts is awful, I got that to work once but haven't been able to do it again. https://www.amazon.com/EXVIST-Dongle-EG25-G-M2M-optimized-Module/dp/B096TQJR73/ https://www.amazon.com/EXVIST-Dongle-EG25-G-M2M-optimized-Mo... In theory you can actually make phone calls with it, I've enabled the usb AC device on mine and dialed out with it but haven't actually gotten the loopback set up to work. It's hard to tell if the issue is with Pulseaudio or something in the modem firmware or a regulatory issue or what. SMS works OOTB with modem manager. MMS works if you're willing to hunt down the MMSD source and build it yourself.
tonyhart7 1y ago
it reminds me old android phone that you can replace the battery back then funny that we've come full circle
ajsnigrutin 1y ago
Honestly, with the current phone prices, cpu performances and software support, I've replaced my phones either because they became "too slow" (ie. the software got bloated) or because the battery died and the replacement cost was just not worth it anymore, especially due to labour cost of replacement. In case of modular phones, i'd be very interested in stats of how many people buy a new replacement battery after a year or two (especially if it can be replaced with just using your nails or maybe a screwdriver, without heating stuff and losing waterproofness) compared to every other replacable component.
FreeRogerVer 1y ago
When is it switching to compressed starchy architecture? Nothing more sustainable than something I can bury next to an anthill at EOL.
komali2 1y ago
I think projects like this are really cool, and I think "oh cool, I should get this sustainable phone." But then I remember that there's a bajillion phones in perfectly acceptable condition in secondhand shops around the globe, and probably the most sustainable thing I can do is just only ever buy secondhand phones for the rest of my life. Honestly the globe could probably survive a couple years on secondhand phones alone if everyone stopped making new ones.
thorio 1y ago
Reading all the comments here about small phones and after recently receiving Google's info about my pixel 6As battery downgrade I took a look at Unihertz again and they apparently made a pretty good looking new 5G model "jelly max". What do you guys think? Should we give it as go? Apparently it's funded via s Kickstarter...

402 points by Bluestein 1y ago

neoromantique 1y ago

Manufactured entirely in China and no headphone jack, that's a pass for me.

guerrilla 1y ago
TINA.
- neoromantique 1y ago
  ...what?
  - guerrilla 1y ago
    There is no alternative.
    - neoromantique 1y ago
      I don't think there are fully non-chinese alternatives, but there absolutely are other phones that are not fully manufactured in china. Hell, even some iPhones aren't entirely made in china.
pkulak 1y ago
I'm curious to know your current phone that passes that test.
- fsflover 1y ago
  Librem 5 or Liberty phone?
- Defletter 1y ago
  Happens a lot: if the more ethical choice isn't perfect, I might as well stick with the very unethical choices.
  - neoromantique 1y ago
    This isn't binary, the virtue signaled "ethical" choice does not offset the things you have to give up for it. If you don't care about phone manufacturing being basically completely in China, then all power to you, but as I live in country that has been illegally trade embargo-ed by China just five years ago, I do care about this a lot.
- kuschku 1y ago
  Some Sony Xperias were until recently manufactured in Japan (and still have headphone javk & sd card slot)
- karel-3d 1y ago
  Samsung phones are mostly made in Vietnam.
- neoromantique 1y ago
  My current phone isn't asking me to make a lot of sacrifices for the sake of "ethics". I am willing to make many of them, but the least requirement for me is at least a good effort of moving off China for manufacturing (Ideally EU, of course, but we all know that's unrealistic). I already have picked up standalone music player to deal with missing 3.5mm jack, I also have picked up a small camera with a pancake lens that I carry daily to account for not having great camera in phone, but I'm not willing to spend high mid-tier phone money on an entry level hardware if it is fully manufactured in China, sorry. I used to run Xperia's, despite horrid software, but now I'm on Google Pixel for the lack of better options.

ElijahLynn 1y ago

Does it have QI2 wireless charging? article doesn't mention if it does, does not

strangecasts 1y ago

Was lucky enough to get my Fairphone 4 on sale, but I'd happily pay full price now - even though the Fairphones are pricey for the specs, unless you absolutely need 24 cores etc. I'd say they are worth it, knowing the company is at least trying to improve the parts supply chain, and knowing you stand a chance of fixing the devices yourself (luckily I've only had to replace the USB-C port, which was trivial) About the only thing I'd ding Fairphone on is not communicating earlier that they were having trouble getting Android 14 out to the FP4s, but the security patches have been consistent. (Okay I'm also dinging them on getting rid of the headphone jack, yes I know it's a lost cause... )

onli 1y ago
Not really a lost cause in general, there are a bunch of regular phones that have a headphone jack. But fairphone seems unwilling to listen to all the feedback they are getting telling them this is a blocker, so yes, in that way it is a lost cause there. A shame really.
exabrial 1y ago
+1 for headphone jack. At least they got the MicroSD correct!
lawn 1y ago
I've been very happy with my Fairphone 4 that I've had for 4 years now running CalyxOS. I could probably use it for a few more years but I may upgrade to the 6 if the speakers/microphone are better (and to support the company).
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  > I could probably use it for a few more years but I may upgrade to the 6 if the speakers/microphone are better I don't get this. Isn't the whole concept of the company modular parts? Shouldn't you be able to put the better speakers in your existing phone?
  - Foobar8568 1y ago

exabrial 1y ago

ahhh I wish GrapheneOS was supported on these!

onli 1y ago
CalyxOS support Fairphones. It is a better option anyway, also supports bootloader relocking etc.
- dsr_ 1y ago
  Is the combination proof against pre-unlock attacks with Cellebrite? (I would like the answer to be yes, and I would like the answer to be yes for many more phones and OS combos. I don't think it is.)
  - onli 1y ago
    I don't know. It seems unclear to me which capabilities those attack devices have and which security measures would be required. The locked bootloader, short update interval and the security option to block unknown USB devices might protect against that, might not. I saw no statement in either direction from the project.
- bramhaag 1y ago
  In which ways is CalyxOS "better"? This comparison is pretty damning: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm Calyx is _not_ a hardened OS, and runs on devices with insecure hardware and firmware (like a Fairphone). Additionally, app compatibility suffers because they use microG instead of proper sandboxed Gapps, and also lacks many QoL features that guard against hostile apps (storage scopes, contact scopes, ...).
  - userbinator 1y ago
    The insecurity is freedom.
  - onli 1y ago

godelski 1y ago

They mention the Pixel and I just got to say, I wish someone would bring back the fingerprint reader on the back of the phone. That was seriously the best solution. Fastest way to unlock your phone, because no matter how slow the fingerprint reader is you activate it while pulling it out of your pocket. I honestly don't get why people like Face ID more (what I currently use). Someone, please bring this back

aidenn0 1y ago
It's not exactly a flagship phone, but the Unihertz Jelly Max has a fingerprint reader on the back.
- smallerfish 1y ago
  The problem with Unihertz though is that they lose interest in fixing software bugs approximately 5 minutes after lauching new phones. And, based on my experience, they tend to launch with a lot of bugs.
andrewmcwatters 1y ago
I hate Face ID so much. I hate being asked for my PIN for every single little thing I do. I already unlocked my phone, please stop asking me. If I grabbed it, YES, I WANT TO DO THE THING! -Exhausted Apple user also wanting easier authentication
- godelski 1y ago
  Or the minute it actually takes to unlock my phone because it missed the first one and then asks for my pin and activates right before I finish entering my pin
- TylerE 1y ago
  The one thing that grinds my gears is how they made it mandatory for lock page widgets. I don’t need my smart lights faceid protected when I’m trying to turn them on in the middle of the night
1y ago

msgodel 1y ago

They should switch to an SOC with mainline Linux support so you don't have to throw it out in three years.

ppseafield 1y ago
Which SoC should they switch to? Google's Pixel phones for Android 16's release just updated[0] their kernels to 6.1, which means the bleeding edge kernel version for Android phones is a release from December 2022. What Qualcomm SoCs are supported by this kernel, and how fast are they? [0] https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-linux-6-1-android-15-qpr2-3498932/ https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-linux-6-1-android-15-...
- msgodel 1y ago
  If the drivers were upstreamed it would be supported by the latest kernel.org kernel even before release. AFAIK outside the Pinephone and Liberem 5 no hardware manufacturers explicitly target this and only 10 year+ old Qualcomm (other vendors such as Freescale tend to behave much better) SOCs have open source graphics drivers because the SOC vendors themselves often refuse to support their own hardware. Google is able to do this because they build their own SOCs (probably because they got tired of being jerked around by Qualcomm) but still don't merge their stuff upstream (or at least they don't last I checked.)
- charcircuit 1y ago
  Android 16 uses the latest LTS branch of Linux which is 6.12.
jacek 1y ago
> They should switch to an SOC with mainline Linux support so you don't have to throw it out in three years. Starting 20th of June this year (so 3 days ago) every new phone released in European Union will need to have software updates for at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on the market. This might be the first one released under new regulations. Also looking at Fairphone's history it looks like they really support their phones for a long time.

tetris11 1y ago

> Snapdragon 7s Gen 3 GPU: Adreno 810 - 895-1050 - 256 shaders CPU cores: 8 - 1x2500 (Cortex-A720) - 3x2400 (Cortex-A720) - 4x1800 (Cortex-A520) For anyone wondering, MHz.

fooqux 1y ago

Still wish I could actually buy one. I know the market for a phone like this is probably quite small in the USA, but I'd still love having the option. Fingers are still crossed that the upcoming announcement mentions other countries.

BlackjackCF 1y ago
I heard about Fairphones and really wanted one. I was disappointed to find that they have poor support in the US.
- fooqux 1y ago
  I think by 'poor' you mean 'none'? Last I knew if you bought one in the USA (from eBay, having a friend ship it to you, etc) you have zero support from Fairphone. There was actually an entry in a FAQ about this. I can't blame them, I just wish it were different.
  - NewJazz 1y ago
    Yeah hard to justify a repairable phone when sourcing parts for repairs is going to be a major headache :/
dnautics 1y ago
I (US) have had a fairphone for a year. you can puchase one from murena and it works just fine.

icy 1y ago

Really wish they’d make a 5,5” version of this. Desperately holding on to my 13 mini.

pkulak 1y ago

Man, would I ever love to buy one of these. But last I checked, even if you import to the USA, you won't have most of the bands you need. :(

Spunkie 1y ago

Still no headphone jack makes this a nonstarter, lame.

OkayPhysicist 1y ago
How often are you listening to music on your phone while it's charging? (because otherwise you can always just attach an adapter onto your headphones to make it USB-C). Seems like a weird hang up.
- GoatInGrey 1y ago
  So when I reach the trailhead and realize that my dongle is back at home, I can still use my headphones to listen to a podcast as I hike. Or maybe I'm out in public with others and want them to listen to something but my dongle is at home so I now need to play audio over the speakers in a public setting. It comes down to having choice and not being funnelled into overpriced wireless earbuds. Which Fairphone began selling with the release of the Fairphone 4, their first phone without the jack.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    What else are you plugging your headphones into? Again, the pitch here is leaving the dongle basically permanently attached to the headphones, effectively turning them into a set of usb-c wired headphones. I was hesitant about abandoning the headphone jack, too, until I realized that the higher-end phones I'd effectively locked myself out of charge in 10% of the time.
    - interloxia 1y ago
      Swap the dongle for a pd friendly y cable.
    - Topfi 1y ago
      > What else are you plugging your headphones into? My Macbook, my work laptop, my e-piano, my Note9, my BTR7, ... Don't get me wrong, I understand far too well why no new flagship offers the jack anymore and wireless/USB-C is truly amazingly convenient for the vast majority of users, even audio quality wise, but sadly we are still very far from either being universal, either because the standard is still 1/8 or 1/4 inch or latency is key (in the case of instruments both). Also, USB-C ports are finite so using the small 3.5mm port is often preferable. So just keeping the dongle plugged in, sadly not an option. Apple Dongle DACs are easily lost too, ask me how I know. Am very far removed from the mainstream customer and accept that in any case, my dream phone would likely bankrupt whoever was dumb enough to bankroll it, so I'll just deal with the compromise.

9283409232 1y ago

My dream phone is a Fairphone running GrapheneOS

summermusic 1y ago
The GrapheneOS developers had this to say about Fairphone back in 2021: “It's not possible for GrapheneOS to support @Fairphone devices because they're far from meeting even the most basic security requirements. They haven't come close and it doesn't appear to be a priority for them.“ I also would love a Fairphone-like device running GrapheneOS, but I don’t think Fairphone is going to be the company to deliver to GrapheneOS’s high standards. Source: https://x.com/grapheneos/status/1448394015242604551 https://x.com/grapheneos/status/1448394015242604551
- 9283409232 1y ago
  I remember them saying that. I would've hoped Fairphone would up their hardware security standards since then.
  - craftkiller 1y ago
    From a couple days ago: > It's not feasible for Fairphone to make a device meeting our requirements any time soon. https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462
    - 9283409232 1y ago
      Curious who the OEM they are talking to is.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

m3kw9 1y ago

Buying a phone because us sustainable would be better served if you did something else in place of it. There is a huge trade off between sustainability and the usefulness

ryukafalz 1y ago

I use a Fairphone 5 and plan to stick with it for a while (after all, that's the point!) but this does look very nice. I do wish they would sell them in the US and had more US band support. I got mine on a trip to Europe and it works here, but not always consistently. :) That's probably the one thing that'd get me to upgrade and repurpose this one with PostmarketOS.

cantalopes 1y ago

I love concept but the only thing that's keeping me from buying it is that it's too big. They don't make small phones anymore:( the last perfect model i had a chanc3 to have was huawei p10- a perfect 5.1 display

guappa 1y ago
unihertz makes small phones!
- jakegmaths 1y ago
  Indeed. But sadly, they don't update them. The Unihertz Jelly Star is stuck on the June 2023 (yes... 2 years ago!) Android security update.
  - guappa 1y ago
    Yeah not ideal… then again… samsung actually pushed an update with an overlay that shows ads on some old models. I had one I used to show the forecast, attached to a wall. I had to reset and to factory and forbid all updates or ads would appear on top of my app.
mrheosuper 1y ago
Yeah im still rocking ip13 mini, the last true flagship small phone. I was having such high hope for the 16e to be successor of 13 mini. But oh boy...
tosmatos 1y ago
I feel you. A repairable phone that's 5 inches would be so perfect. I miss my the Xperia X Compact so bad, I loved that phone, I had Lineage OS on it and it was great. It wasn't easy to repair though. Now I've got a Jelly Star, and it's pretty much the same problems, plus no updates in a while.

blakeashleyjr 1y ago

Dreams: >Framework-like upgradability / repairability / modularity >Support for GrapheneOS >Sold in USA

bramhaag 1y ago
GrapheneOS support for Fairphone is unlikely to ever happen. Their hardware is too insecure to satisfy GOS's reasonable requirements [1] and have stated that they aren't interested in improving it [2]. Software is also lacking and they've partnered with Murena [3], who has been slinging shit at GOS [4]. On a more positive note, due to the AOSP/Pixel drama there now is a real possibility a different major OEM will be supported: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114711328082841462 [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices [2] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114733211017800480 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114733211017800480 [3] https://murena.com/ https://murena.com/ [4] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114235396540176085 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114235396540176085
- beeflet 1y ago
  I think that secure elements pose a greater disadvantage to the consumer due to vendor lockdown than the advantages in physical security make up for.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- fooqux 1y ago
  That's excellent news that they're partnering with an OEM to make something. Here's hoping it's someone like Framework that has sustainability in mind as well.
  - noisy_boy 1y ago
    Why not Framework themselves? By now, they have brand recognition to certain extent and a ready customer base - I think a Framework phone with choices of GrapheneOS or LineageOS or standard Googleized option could be a very compelling product. That is if they can sort out their availability gaps.

tguvot 1y ago

But will it support VoLTE with USA providers ?

NoboruWataya 1y ago

Always interested in new Fairphone releases! I cannot justify a new phone while my Samsung S10 is still alive and kicking but I do think a bit about what I will replace it with when it finally dies. I am very much drawn to the Fairphone, but the price to quality ratio is quite high compared to the mainstream flagship phones (of course, I understand why). And when the company is young it is hard to know how credible the repairability promise is. The other phone I lean towards is a second-hand Pixel (somewhere in the Pixel 7-9 range most likely). Would be very interested to see how much of an improvement it is over the FP5. Fairphones seem to get negative reviews but I think that is due to people not really being able to look past the price-to-quality ratio compared to phones that don't care about ethics.

userbinator 1y ago

When unscrewed, users are likely to be greeted with an option to remove the battery as well as it isn’t attached to the device with the help of glue but rather with additional screws. What a horrible state of things that "not gluing the battery in place but screwing it in" is considered an improvement. IMHO smartphones have been on a horrible decline ever since ~2016. Before then, most Androids had [1] easily replaceable battery, no tools required at all; [2] microSD slot; [3] headphone jack; [4] (many) dual SIM; [5] (many cheaper models) easily rooted or unlocked by default. Now all we get are faster CPUs, more (non-expandable) storage, and far too many cameras. There was also this memorable ad from Samsung: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0

fulafel 1y ago
The article is misleading here in that the earlier Fairphones had removable batteries without glue.
- lawn 1y ago
  The Fairphone 4 at least you could replace the battery without any screws at all. It took seconds and it's been extremely useful for me.
  - littlestymaar 1y ago
    On the flip side, the battery of my Fairphone 3 had a tendency to disconnect when it was shaken too strongly for its taste, rebooting the phone… So I'd consider screws to be an improvement actually.
    - crossroadsguy 1y ago
      If in 2025 your unscrewed battery is disconnecting evening at vigorous shakes it is not your fault at all. So that doesn't explain the "bring in the screws".
      - 1y ago

rglullis 1y ago

I will repeat again what I'm saying since they announced the Fairphone 4: being able to repair the phone is good, but what I really would like to see is for them to go the framework route and design a phone with a standardized form factor. It doesn't need to be crazy modular, I'd just like to be able to upgrade mainboard/camera/display/storage/battery independently, and I'd like to push product development around these components instead of coming up with yet another iteration of an ethical-but-full-of-compromises device every two years. Promising 8 years of upgrades is only useful if your hardware is not sub-par. The Fairphone 3+ I bought was already "meh" when I bought it, after 3 years it felt sluggish. I wanted to upgrade parts of it, not a whole new device.

cocoto 1y ago
Your phone feels slow either because you are now used to faster devices or because the software used is becoming bloated. There is no reason a phone feels slower except for these two reasons (or maybe if thermal got worse over time but it should not). Personally I don’t care if a phone feels slower compared to other devices as long as it is not becoming slower because of crap software updates.
- rglullis 1y ago
  It is not just the CPU. The camera was sub-par, the display was just okay, storage capacity is always important if you are like me and don't want to be dependent on the cloud... all those things can be improved independently, and consumers would benefit if they could upgrade them whenever the price/performance/availability reached a satisfactory point.

codedokode 1y ago

The problem might be the replacement parts availability in the future. My 10 years old phone battery stopped working but it is impossible to find a new one and so otherwise perfectly working phone is unusable.

0x38B 1y ago

It’s a funny place to be where the color of the power button is news, though not a headline.

thdhhghgbhy 1y ago

Can it actually take and make calls, and hold a battery charge yet?

squarefoot 1y ago

All phones eventually become obsolete, but their guts could be used in so many ways. I'd love for example if someone made an enclosure acting also as multi port docking station so that old phones with unlocked bootloader (Fairphone being one of them) could be reflashed with a different operating system then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses. Seeing all that perfectly good electronics going into landfills because planned obsolescence says so just irritates me. Can we do that at least for unlocked ones? Framework did something similar for their laptop mainboards, minus the docking station.function as they already have more ports than a phone. Any chances that this could be doable with Fairphone hardware?

dvdkon 1y ago
It's certainly technically possible. Phone motherboards have limited wired IO, but USB host mode is enough for a lot of things. The problem is how locked-down most phones are, and how hard it is to modify their software. Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). That all means starting an "ecosystem" of accessories and new non-phone software is costly and has an uncertain future. Personally I think the biggest issue is the theft-prevention functionality that means a phone picked out of e-waste is basically bricked (without some exploit). There's companies making new motherboards out of salvaged Intel chipsets, I'm sure it would be possible to build a business around the reuse of phones, but right now there are just too many obstacles. I think this could be solved with new legislation. At least here, doing anything with e-waste is already highly regulated. Giving registered e-waste processors the ability to unlock the bootloader of any device would reduce waste, and make unlocked phones something you could reliably buy in bulk. Then I think we could see the kind of aftermarket support for phones.
- WhyNotHugo 1y ago
  > Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used. Even if Fairphone would like to keep phones usable, Google can decide otherwise at any time. I started a thread on this topic on their forums, and they seem to have no interest in fixing this. I wouldn't consider hardware sustainable if it needs to talk to Google's servers to be used and remains completely locked down otherwise. If you find one of these devices in a drawer in 15 years, and Google has changed their server's API, then the phone is as usable as any other brand (nitpick: you have to "enter a contractual agreement" with Google, and not create an account. Folks on the forums seemed to be obsessed with the choice of word around this, although practically, it makes no difference).

butz 1y ago

Why phones are so huge nowadays? How are you people carrying them? Oh how I wish for a compact sized phone, something like iPhone 13 mini, but with USB-C connector. And those camera bumps, don't get me started on those. If you cannot fit camera into phone, why not make whole device a bit thicker.

uncircle 1y ago
I am still angry at Apple for dropping the mini line. I know it wasn’t popular, but if there’s anyone that can afford having a line that “only” sells a few hundred thousand units it’s Apple. I guess that’s what happens when the company is run by a bean counter :(
karel-3d 1y ago
People are not buying small phones. If you want a small phone, the best thing are flip-phones, there is tons of them now.
- qwertfisch 1y ago
  These are not smartphones. You cannot do anything with them except phone, SMS, some alarms and make pictures with very crappy quality. So these are effectively just phones, like 20 years ago. They are not extensible by any app, just what the manufacturer adds for factory provided programs. I would be small (lightweight) phones. I cannot bare these 180–220g devices. If I want something heavy I buy a tablet.
  - karel-3d 1y ago
    No? Galaxy Z Flip is a smartphone. Razr is a smartphone.
- xorcist 1y ago
  > People are not buying small phones How can one buy what is not being manufactured? The few small-ish phones that have existed have mostly been cheap and underpowered.

stiray 1y ago

I am still waiting for Fairphone and Graphene OS collaboration. This is match made in heaven. Any Fairphone/GrapheneOS developer reading this? Just do it, document if something is not secure enough for you, but do it. Nothing to think about, you fit together like hand and a glove and any seconds thoughts are depriving the planet of THE PHONE! Pick the cash we will throw at you and make second generation with the cpu GrapheneOS wants, that will make the /r/GrapheneOS members eyes shine, drooling and crying of joy at the same time. +throw them in a few hardware switches for camera, mic, connectivity,... disabling. No need to wait to be perfect in first iteration (and due to that craziness and perfectionism will never happen), to gain the possibility to be perfect in second or third. I would love so much to stop buying Google Pixel phones just to install Graphene OS and protect myself from Google and its ecosystem, it seems so counterproductive.

tomgag 1y ago
I, for one, would buy one. Make it small and I would buy 3.
- teekert 1y ago
  Me 3. It looks like they really won't though: [0] It's such a shame, vision-wise the GrapheneOS crew must be much closer to the FairPhone team than they are to Google and Samsung, one would guess... But the GrapheneOS people find security tech (such as secure enclaves) and update cycle very important. After the bad Pixel news, they find Samsung to be the best fit: [1] I would (as many here) also hope that they could somehow make the FairPhone crew step up in their security practices, help them do it. They would be the golden combo, except perhaps for things like camera quality and raw speed/AI chips. And possible the niche is just to small to be profitable. But a man can dream... I'd pay 1.5 to 2x normal price for a FairPhone/GrapheneOS combi, it would align with my values in almost all dimensions. And then I'd buy a Pebble and just be happy. I really don't know what to do when my iPhone 12 mini dies. I do like the iPhone, but I also liked my OnePlus3 with LineageOS. I was originally planning on a Pixel/GrapheneOS after this phone, but that dream has shatter I think... [0] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721751616786103 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721751616786103 [1] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721967328643999 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721967328643999

Iolaum 1y ago

I bought FP4 three years ago and had a decent run with it until an update happened that made my phone unable to connect to my carrier (no calls or internet :( ). After a lot of back and forth with support they admitted that LTE on my country (Greece) was not officially supported ! They did refund me after that admission so I bear them no ill will. I hope they succeed in their mission and if their phone worked for me, I d still be using it.

agile-gift0262 1y ago

phone wishlist: - user-replaceable battery - 7+ years of security updates - iPhone 13 mini size - iPhone 13 mini camera quality - plastic exterior - headphone jack - fairphone-style sustainability, repairability and part availability - GrapheneOS compatibility - fingerprint reader either on the back or on the power button I miss my Pyxel 4a :-(

NekkoDroid 1y ago
> - fingerprint reader either on the back or on the power button How about both: do it like the LG G6 and put the power button on the back and make it the fingerprint reader :) (unironically though it was probably my favorite fingerprint reader I've had so far)
crossroadsguy 1y ago
The size is not coming back. Anything else might or might not but the size is not and it's sad. My only guess is - some kind of bespoke/niche phone maker with a good profit margin might make it "on demand". Of course not "one order from customer, one order to their factory" kinda setup - you get the drift. Some kind of blocking/reserving fee for priority shipping etc. I had kind of hoped Nothing could be that OEM. But naah! Why would they! They literally are "yet another smaller OEM" in the crowd of other smaller OEMs with that gimmicky backlight as the only differentiator.
- craftkiller 1y ago
  > My only guess is - some kind of bespoke/niche phone maker with a good profit margin might make it Unihertz makes some very small android phones. I've never purchased one so I can't vouch for their quality.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    They are about what you expect. Durable yes, long battery life yes, small screen, crappy camera, bad modem. The one gigantic downside is that the software gets updated never. They launch with the bugs they launch with and those are the bugs you get forever. They have no interest in allowing any sort of custom rom support, so you get what you get.

sp0ck 1y ago

Add e-sim so I can use it as my all-around planet travel phone and I'm sold.

alfons_foobar 1y ago
Pretty sure it has eSIM (at least my FP4 has it...)

mytailorisrich 1y ago

I don't see anythng more "sustainable" in this phone compared to mainstream ones. Making it a bit more modular or repairable does not make it "sustainable".

choffee 1y ago
They have a post about some of the reasons that the 5 was sustainable. It's not just the repair and modular parts but the whole supply chain. It' rarely gets talked about here as this is a mostly tech audience who focus on features, which are important, but Fairphone is more focused on the impact of the manufacture. https://www.fairphone.com/en/2023/08/30/is-the-fairphone-5-the-most-sustainable-phone-in-the-world/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2023/08/30/is-the-fairphone-5-t...
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  That article subtly shifts from "sustainable" to "most sustainable"... It can be so while not really being sustainable. "Fair materials" means nothing. "100% e-waste neutral" is the same as claiming that you are "100% carbon neutral" because you buy carbon "offsets". It's dubious. There are real positives, though: "100% recycled tin solder paste, 80% recycled steel, 75% post-consumer recycled plastics in the battery frame"
  - bcye 1y ago
    > So, for every Fairphone 5 we make, we responsibly collect and recycle 212 grams of electronic waste. And a lot of that waste is taken from countries where e-waste recycling is not a reality yet. It does not seem like they are buying offsets. Also why would Fair materials mean nothing?
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      They are claiming that they are recycling something to offset their phones... that's nice but it tells us very little. "Fair materials" means nothing in itself and certainly nothing in relation to sustainability.

IlikeKitties 1y ago

Fairphone has yet to figure out how to deal with updates in a timely and stable matter and we are 5 phones in. And all their phones consistently had hardware issues of some kind or another. I wish them good luck, their phones are the kind of device i'd like to buy but i'll do that after they have proven that they can actually deliver what they promise.

KoolKat23 1y ago

At this point, having such a tiny screen I'm sure adds to the price.

crossroadsguy 1y ago

Any <>Phone or <>Fone is pretty much useless for someone like me if it requires me to being logged into the "whole device" with a Google A/c and the irony is without that almost anything important on my phone (banks, payment/transfer, stock/investments, WhatsApp, delivery, transport, Govt services) will JUST NOT WORK in most cases so it becomes a non starter. Or Force Google to not track things out of certain apps and giving customers choice to not use those apps at all e.g Gmail, Google Maps etc (or use w/o logging in like you can do on iOS. A good way would be to letting OEMs decide the "Android Account" in Android OS instead of the mandatory Google Account. Not only opening up of the play store (I am not sure how helpful that would be) but another crucial criminal hurdle here is Play Integrity API [0] and apps using it. By this Google made it apps choose between the notions of "be secured" or "actively decide to remain unsecured". [0]: Call the Integrity API at important moments in your app to check that user actions and requests are coming from your unmodified app binary, installed by Google Play, running on a genuine Android device ---- Yes, Apple does it too but they have proven to not yet started tracking and god as much as I hate Apple and it's walled garden they are still far less distracting and cluttered. Besides they don't just log me into everything and anything like mail etc. --- And the size. Naah, if you are making yet another phablet then I am not even looking to switch. Good luck thank you bye-bye.

frank20022 1y ago

All my smartphones lasted 4+ years, except ironically the FP3 that only lasted 2 years. I really wanted to like it, but assembly quality was terrible, battery was falling on the floor all the time, and max volume for calls was almost unaudible, an apparently rare problem they have been unable to solve. I hope they have improved since and wish them the best, but as sick of Apple I am, I am also too afraid to try FP again...

robertlagrant 1y ago

It makes sense that as the insane levels of innovation tail off and phones are becoming commodities again, this sort of thing will start happening.

nick88msn 1y ago

The only missing thing would be the ability to swap motherboard like framework laptop when you need to upgrade in 5-7 years from now.

tigrezno 1y ago

I'd love to buy one but I'm seeing they are reeeally slow at software upgrades

sylware 1y ago

I have to buy such a smart phone hardware: issue, I won't run android for sure, probably something based on a super custom linux. I will need open source and _LEAN_ drivers (including their SDK) with complete hardware programming manuals for at least the modem (the critical part, and the drivers on complex hardware is NEVER enough, not to mention the official list of known hardware bugs) and the remaining hardware blocks.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Lemme know when you get all that.
- sylware 1y ago
  To be fair, I am more interested in a 4G/5G modem to connect some modular computer. A smart phone is an expensive one. Do you know of a simple modern 4G/5G modem, USB? Only IPv4/IPv6 bridge, I guess you need USB CDC or something for that (NDIS is deprecated)? Any tip?
  - msgodel 1y ago
    This looks like the chip that was used in the Pinephone as well as the modem card in the machine I'm typing this on. It works well on Linux although sometimes it's not available after waking from suspend (I think that was fixed although I've gotten used to not expecting it to be so I haven't been checking it.) It's pretty easy to dial the PPP (IP) connection with network manager + modem manager, doing it from scratch with expect scripts is awful, I got that to work once but haven't been able to do it again. https://www.amazon.com/EXVIST-Dongle-EG25-G-M2M-optimized-Module/dp/B096TQJR73/ https://www.amazon.com/EXVIST-Dongle-EG25-G-M2M-optimized-Mo... In theory you can actually make phone calls with it, I've enabled the usb AC device on mine and dialed out with it but haven't actually gotten the loopback set up to work. It's hard to tell if the issue is with Pulseaudio or something in the modem firmware or a regulatory issue or what. SMS works OOTB with modem manager. MMS works if you're willing to hunt down the MMSD source and build it yourself.

tonyhart7 1y ago

it reminds me old android phone that you can replace the battery back then funny that we've come full circle

ajsnigrutin 1y ago

Honestly, with the current phone prices, cpu performances and software support, I've replaced my phones either because they became "too slow" (ie. the software got bloated) or because the battery died and the replacement cost was just not worth it anymore, especially due to labour cost of replacement. In case of modular phones, i'd be very interested in stats of how many people buy a new replacement battery after a year or two (especially if it can be replaced with just using your nails or maybe a screwdriver, without heating stuff and losing waterproofness) compared to every other replacable component.

FreeRogerVer 1y ago

When is it switching to compressed starchy architecture? Nothing more sustainable than something I can bury next to an anthill at EOL.

komali2 1y ago

I think projects like this are really cool, and I think "oh cool, I should get this sustainable phone." But then I remember that there's a bajillion phones in perfectly acceptable condition in secondhand shops around the globe, and probably the most sustainable thing I can do is just only ever buy secondhand phones for the rest of my life. Honestly the globe could probably survive a couple years on secondhand phones alone if everyone stopped making new ones.

thorio 1y ago

Reading all the comments here about small phones and after recently receiving Google's info about my pixel 6As battery downgrade I took a look at Unihertz again and they apparently made a pretty good looking new 5G model "jelly max". What do you guys think? Should we give it as go? Apparently it's funded via s Kickstarter...