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Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China
- zelphirkalt 1y agoIs that massive? Meh ... Probably not. Probably still within cost of business range, right?
- petesergeant 1y ago2% of annual revenue, and 6 months to comply or presumably further sanctions coming
- petesergeant 1y ago> Grahn said TikTok has “has never received a request for European user data from the Chinese authorities, and has never provided European user data to them.” lol, ok. Chinese intelligence services must be completely asleep at the wheel (doubtful)
- DarkWiiPlayer 1y agoI am convinced they would absolutely tell the truth if they had handed over any data to the Chinese government and would never just lie about it to protect their business interests /s
- doix 1y agoI find the exact wording believable enough. There was never a request, the Chinese government just accesses the data they need without a request.
- hengheng 1y agoMeaning that there is an intermediary?
- lukan 1y agoI rather think they don't need to request, but have a direct line into the servers.
- feverzsj 1y agoChina government literally forces direct integration into every messaging and financial service. If you talk shit about the government in wechat, the police will call you the next minute.
- diggan 1y agoFun fact: This is also why iCloud in China isn't actually run by Apple at all, but by a company called AIPO Cloud (Guizhou) Technology Co. Ltd, and the Terms of Service/Privacy Policy is different from the rest of iCloud.
- trollbridge 1y agoYes, because it was a command not a request.
- udev4096 1y agoWhoever cares about privacy would certainly stay away from TokTok. This is just absurd. Ban the app already
- lukan 1y ago"Ban the app already" And FB, Insta, Google, Youtube, ..? The only difference with TikTok is that it is based in china.
- seydor 1y agoThe relationship between EU and US is certainly closer than China
- lukan 1y agoIt is. But if a US company like Paypal decides to blacklist me for whatever reason (data shared from other companies) - the consequences for me are way higher.
- seydor 1y agothat's because common interests are closer
- _Algernon_ 1y agoQuestionable whether that will still be true in 4 years. At least China can still be expected to operate rationally.
- graemep 1y agoReally? A nice rational genocide or two? China is an expansionist dictatorship. It would be ridiculous to suggest it is more trustworthy than the US. The US is actually acting rationally IMO. People just look at headlines and do not dig into the reasons. You might not agree with the reasoning, but it is not irrational. For example the tariffs clearly follow from arguments made by Trump's appointees (such as Bessent and Marin) even before the election, and definitely before being appointed.
- prof-dr-ir 1y ago'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-bytedance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...
- AlchemistCamp 1y agoWhat bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.
- dmos62 1y agoThese are global companies. Why pretend you're only dealing with a small fragment of it? I don't see a reason to be overly conservative.
- _Algernon_ 1y agoThey choose to operate here. Of course it is Ireland's business.
- DrScientist 1y agoThe Irish regulator is acting on behalf of the EU as TikTok European head quarters are in Ireland. And in terms of jurisdiction - it's a bit like you visiting Ireland on holiday and committing a crime - and then arguing they have no jurisdiction over you as you are only there for 2 weeks.
- _Algernon_ 1y agoA more apt comparison is that you get a fine for speeding abroad, and argue that you don't have to pay it because you earned that money in your home country. It's ridiculous.
- AlchemistCamp 1y ago
- codetrotter 1y agoЄ in the title of the HN submission is not the Euro symbol. € is.
- Alifatisk 1y agoThe title have been changed and they added the symbol, I can't update the title anymore. Hopefully Dang fixes it.
- eenokentee 1y ago[dead]
- faraggi 1y agoAlso, the € symbol is a suffix to amounts, not a prefix like $.
- secondcoming 1y agoOnly in some countries. The position of the currency symbol is a locale thing
- Marsymars 1y agoIt very much is a locale thing, not even a country thing - e.g. en-ca and fr-ca have '$' as a prefix/suffix, respectively.
- switch007 1y agoNot universally > Placement of the sign varies. Countries have generally continued the style used for their former currencies. In those countries where previous convention was to place the currency sign before the figure, the euro sign is placed in the same position (e.g., €3.50).[7] In those countries where the amount preceded the national currency sign, the euro sign is again placed in that relative position (e.g., 3,50 €). > In English, the euro sign – like the dollar sign ⟨$⟩ and the pound sign ⟨£⟩ – is usually placed before the figure, unspaced,[8] the reverse of usage in many other European languages > The European Union's Interinstitutional Style Guide (for EU staff) states that the euro sign should be placed in front of the amount without any space in English, but after the amount in most other languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_sign#Use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_sign#Use
- miroljub 1y agoNow, I'm still waiting for those watchdogs to fine Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and bazillion other companies over data transfer to the USA. Just kidding, I know it won't happen. But at least paying some taxes in Ireland should be possible, shouldn't it?
- conradfr 1y agoFacebook has been, Uber as well.
- subscribed 1y agoThere are multiple ways EU-based user data can be lawfully transferred to the US, due to the similarities in the bits of the data protection law. I'm not aware of the similar arrangements being possible with China-based providers.
- gkbrk 1y agoInstead of claiming things without doing 1 minute of research, you could have just checked a GDPR enforcement tracker [1]. If you sort by largest fines, you'll see that Meta, Amazon, TikTok, LinkedIn (Microsoft), Uber, WhatsApp (Meta) and Google have all been fined. [1]: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/
- diggan 1y ago> Now, I'm still waiting for those watchdogs to fine Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and bazillion other companies over data transfer to the USA. Why wait when it already happened? Not only are you overly pessimistic, but incorrect as well. - https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/05/22/us-tech-giant-meta-fined-a-record-12-billion-in-europe https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/05/22/us-tech-giant-meta-... - https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/03/google-analytics-sweden-gdpr-fines/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/03/google-analytics-sweden-gd... - (not a fine, but told to stop transferring) https://www.pymnts.com/cpi-posts/eu-watchdog-orders-european-commission-to-cease-microsoft-data-transfers/ https://www.pymnts.com/cpi-posts/eu-watchdog-orders-european... Then we have this wonderful website: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ (which currently has 2583 entries)
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- SilverBirch 1y agoTwo things I wonder about: first are these fines actually going to happen or is the sort of thing where it gets appealed indefinitely. And second, where do the fines go? It sounds a lot like since Ireland is where Tiktok is getting fined the fines go to the Irish government which would seem crazy. The fines are assessed in the context of the full EU, but only Ireland gets the revenue? This is broken.
- aurareturn 1y agoIf it's truly Ireland only, then Tiktok might just exit the country and not pay the fine. Perhaps this is what Ireland wants? Ireland is a small market. It'll take forever to make 530m in profit in Ireland for Tiktok.
- tossandthrow 1y agoTikTok has their EU office in Ireland, that is why the case is happening there. The verdict is for the entire EU, they'd have to exit the EU market.
- pjc50 1y agoTikTok EU is based out of Ireland, so they'd have to move the whole datacentre. https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-gb/tiktok-european-data-centre https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-gb/tiktok-european-data-centr... Meanwhile this is a very interesting read on their corporate structure: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/13247/default/ https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/13247/defau... "On corporate structure specifically, there is a misconception that TikTok UK is a subsidiary of ByteDance's operations in China. This is not the case. TikTok UK is owned by global parent company ByteDance Ltd, incorporated in the Cayman Islands" .. now, everyone talks about China as a global enemy of freedom and accountability, but I think Grand Cayman is underestimated as a bad actor or protector thereof.
- rsynnott 1y agoIt would have to leave Europe. This is being done under the auspices of the EU GDPR.
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- DarkmSparks 1y agoFar better than the ban them idea tbh. Although I suspect US regulators won't like this approach because they want to syphon EU users data up as much as China.
- cynicalsecurity 1y agoNot enough. A fine is just a price for people's private data. Companies should never be allowed to transfer private data of citizens to authoritarian countries and should be de-registered and banned from accessing the free world in such case.
- Eavolution 1y agoI agree but over half a billion euros is quite the price, if the price is high enough it won't be viable to break the laws.
- goodpoint 1y agoThe good old slap on the wrist
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pyronik19 1y ago[dead]
- GrumpyNl 1y agoAs long as we dont fine the people in charge, these fines are useless and have no impact.
- thinkingtoilet 1y agoOn top of that, if the fine is less than the money that is made, it's not a fine, it's a cost of business.
- s_dev 1y agoThere’s a lot of frustration and cynicism in this thread, but I suspect some misunderstandings might be fuelling it. First off, Ireland is part of the EU, and under GDPR’s 'one-stop-shop' system, the country where a company has its EU headquarters in Ireland, in the case of many tech giants it takes the lead on enforcement for the entire EU. So when Ireland’s regulator fines a company under GDPR, they’re essentially doing it on behalf of the whole EU, it’s not just Ireland acting alone. GDPR fines can be very significant, the rules allow penalties either as a percentage of a company’s global revenue or as a large fixed amount whichever is higher. This ensures even the biggest companies feel the impact. Plus, these fines are public and transparent. Every big fine is announced and reported, which means there’s a reputational hit alongside the financial one. That publicity is intentional: it adds pressure on companies to improve, making the fines a real deterrent rather than just a quiet cost of doing business. It’s also worth clarifying where the fine money goes. It doesn’t just line Ireland’s pockets. In practice, the money goes into the EU budget. If Ireland collects a hefty fine, that amount is basically offset against what Ireland would normally contribute to the EU budget. If people in other EU countries were affected by the violation, those countries can request a portion of the fine as well. In short, Ireland isn’t profiting solo from these fines, it’s just the point of collection because that’s where the companies are based. Interestingly, some comments here call the fines 'insane' (too harsh) while others say they’re 'a slap on the wrist' (too lenient). That contradiction highlights the misconceptions around GDPR fines. In reality, these penalties are meant to be serious enough to matter, but proportionate to a company’s size and the offence. They’re not intended to destroy a business, but they’re definitely not nothing either, they serve as a real consequence to encourage companies to respect people’s privacy.
- tossandthrow 1y ago> ... percentage of a company’s global revenue or as a large fixed amount whichever is higher. It should be noted that this is used to establish a maximum fine. Then the regulator can fine at X% of the maximum fine. It should be noted, that this is established to avoid that individual EU member states fine too little to attract business (Like Ireland has previously had issues on re. too little taxing)
- pjc50 1y ago
- ThePowerOfFuet 1y ago@dang Can you please put this in the title? € Thank you for saving our eyes.
- dang 1y agoLet's get that Є out of there!
- nickdothutton 1y agoReminder: Meta was fined 1.2 billion euro by the Irish data protection authority. May 22, 2023 was the enforcement date. Question: How many euro do you think have been paid as of today, 2nd May 2025?
- Aperocky 1y agoDon't leave us hanging, none of us know.
- Alifatisk 1y agoI agree, the parent comment should've just said it. Had to look it up, seems like they've paid none so far
- rpozarickij 1y agoI had to look this one up as well as the sibling comment, but the question reminded me of the Betteridge's law of headlines [0] and it looks like this law is indeed applicable here (meaning that nothing has been paid yet). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
- nickdothutton 1y agoSorry, I thought HN would naturally assume the right answer immediately. I could have commented "clue: it's a round number". They haven't paid any of it. Probably never will, perhaps in exchange for some job creation. Never take these kinds of announcement of fines at face value when you read them.
- peterpost2 1y agoDo you have a source for this? I'm having a hard time finding that they did not pay.
- nickdothutton 1y ago
- WorldPeas 1y agoI’m sure they’re just acting within the law here, but I’m pretty sure the bigger threat isn’t the egress of data but rather the ingress of influence over the app’s algorithm, and therefore users
- rbanffy 1y agoRoughly €100 per Irish resident. Not bad.
- breppp 1y agoIn the future, Europe's entire GDP will be made of privacy fines
- Ylpertnodi 1y agoYou're welcome.
- elnatro 1y agoHope the use that money to improve things for the people there!
- hnpolicestate 1y agoDoes this Irish privacy watchdog investigate Tik Tok data transfers to the Irish government, U.S etc? If not, it's a case of powerful institutions fighting over who has spying rights to their serfs.
- tiffanyh 1y agoSlightly OT: how does the money from fines get used by the government that issued the fine? e.g. does it go into funding data privacy related activities/work?
- edent 1y agoTaxes are very rarely hypothecated. In most countries, if you pay the "bear tax" it doesn't go into a big pot solely used for the eradication of bears. So fines like this normally go into the general pot of government spending. In the UK, data breach fines are spent on running the enforcement organisation - with the remainder going back to the state. https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/who-we-are/how-we-are-funded/ https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/who-we-are/how-we-are-funde...
- splatterxl 1y agoUK is not involved in this case. It's the Irish Data Protection Commission -- https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/who-we-are https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/who-we-are
- arlort 1y agoIn the EU it means next year member states have to pay a little bit less into the budget The EU budget itself doesn't really change so it's not "more money" in a practical sense (I realised I might've skipped a step but this fine is EU wide, not Ireland specific, the fine gets paid to the EU IIRC)
- daft_pink 1y agokind of undercuts their whole narrative
- lazyeye 1y ago100% of the money recovered from these fines should be spent on researching and publicising the privacy abuses of these companies. They should essentially be funding their own policing. Who knows how this data they are harvesting at scale will be exploited by AI in the future. It is pretty scary.
- fennecbutt 1y agoLmao that's nothing to them. But we all knew that, happens all the time. There's not countries. There's not borders. There's just wealth. Concentrated wealth.