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The top brass at Apple just think they are above everyone else. Remember when Tim Cook lied about Apple not giving anyone special terms in the app store and tha

The top brass at Apple just think they are above everyone else. Remember when Tim Cook lied about Apple not giving anyone special terms in the app store and that everyone gets the same deal. And then it came out Netflix was one that got special terms? The sheer arrogance of Apple leaders is astounding. They think they are outright owed rent on anything that runs on an iPhone, iPad, etc. Apple thinks developers are nothing without Apple. Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro. It was already a niche device, but it's a ghost town.

pyronik19 1y ago
Unfortunately their arrogance isn't false bravado. iPhones brand is extremely strong. Funny aside I know many women who won't date men who's text come up in green bubbles... thats branding.
- xp84 1y ago
  I believe you -- though it's not surprising in the USA. Apple absolutely dominates the US market. I'd estimate of the top 75% of incomes Apple has at least an 80% market share. I live in a high-income area and the only Androids I ever see are carried by my house cleaners. And among young people it's only more intense because teens are so obsessed with brand cachet (as they always have been). Now, on HN we know some people, though plenty wealthy enough to afford Apple, are choosing Android for function. But I doubt most of the public even thinks about that choice through that lens. Green bubble is the same as arriving to pick up your date in a 2002 Civic. It projects "I'm probably broke." Statistically. In the US only.
philistine 1y ago
The Playdate, made by Panic, has a more active store than Vision Pro.
- CharlesW 1y ago
  The Playdate store has ~300 games. Apple Vision Pro has ~3,000 native apps, plus millions more compatible iPhone/iPad apps.
jerjerjer 1y ago
> Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro. I think it's mostly the lack of users. Apple snubs mobile developers all the time, but since they gate access to a large chunk of well-paying customers, developers are ready to jump through any hoops. If there were millions of Apple Vision Pro users I'm sure the developers would have followed, but it's of course a chicken and egg situation considering Vision Pro lack of content.
- chmod775 1y ago
  What killed the Vision Pro is the complete lack of support for the two main things people use VR for. Productivity is a distant third behind the likes of VR Chat and pornography. If Apple managed to capture only 1% of VR Chat's monthly userbase, they would've tripled their pathetic sales numbers. Apple tried to focus on productivity and some light entertainment and didn't even throw the other two a bone by supporting a PC link feature. Particularly they didn't make a physical link possible - Wifi is not reliable/high bandwidth enough for most people, so those third party solutions aren't cutting it. Apple users are mostly locked out of the existing PC VR ecosystem - Apple didn't have to rely on developers writing dedicated apps.
  - spacedcowboy 1y ago
    I bought the AVP for one thing only - long haul flights. It makes the experience completely and utterly different, and it's less than the cost of a business seat. It "works for me".
    - nemomarx 1y ago
      what kind of flights are you buying that cost 3500 for a business seat? do you get them very last minute?
      - chmod775 1y ago
        Pretty standard for a ~10-12 hour flight. It's not like there's much reason to care about comforts on short flights. Anyone can tolerate economy for an hour and you'd probably not get out your VR headset for a short hop either.
pjmlp 1y ago
Apple always has been like that, see The Cult of Mac book. However, it appears being at the edge of bankruptcy, and having turned the ship around has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. When Apple Store came out it was great. I was a Nokia employee at the time, and 30% was a dream compared with what you would have to pay to phone operators, app listenings in magazines with SMS download codes, for Blackberry, Symbian, Windows CE, Pocket PC, Brew, J2ME,... However we are now in different times, and acting as if the developers didn't have anything to do with it, it was all thanks to Apple's vision of the future, it is pure arrogance, and yes the Vision Pro was the first victim. Here is another one, if they do really announce an UI revamp at WWDC 2025, I bet most will ignore it.
- throwanem 1y ago
  Honestly, I think they're less jealous of money than rep. A man like Jobs would rather die under torture than be laughed at, and even almost 15 years gone, we still see his mark.
- giancarlostoro 1y ago
  > has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. I get the exact same feeling. They're afraid of collapsing despite being way ahead.
  - layer8 1y ago
    They aren't that much ahead anymore.
- behnamoh 1y ago
  > However, it appears being at the edge of bankruptcy, and having turned the ship around has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. That was more than 20 years ago, under a totally different market condition and Apple leadership. Back then, they needed developers to turn the ship around, now they think devs need them. They's a cash cow and act like assholes.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
Workaccount2 1y ago
I wouldn't blame them, Americans on the whole fall over themselves to defend Apple. Apple is the magic entity that figured out how to send full videos and pictures in text messages. Something a google android could never figure out. Apple phones didn't come bloated with garbage. You go to the apple store for help rather than the verizon store. You are above others when you have an iPhone. Apple's external veneer is stellar, and the overwhelming majority of people don't know and don't care what it is holding up that veneer.
- nostromo 1y ago
  I want Apple to protect me from app developers. For me, it’s a feature not a bug. I want them to prevent social media companies from tracking my device across my other apps. I want them to integrate billing so I can easily cancel subscriptions or get refunds. I want them to require Oauth that allows me to keep my email private from app developers. These features make my customer experience better not worse. I’m sorry it sucks for app developers to make less money but for customers it’s mostly a good thing.
  - mperham 1y ago
    None of that requires a 30% cut.
    - jobs_throwaway 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - roamerz 1y ago
      Requires, no but in all regards it’s a great deal for app developers. You write code they do everything else. You want options? They exist (Windows/Android) but are all shitified minefields of commercial ads and poor design choices that I only use when required. Is Apple perfect? No far from it. When I buy and use their products though I feel more like the customer than the product. It’s a tool built for me not their advertisers.
Tryk 1y ago
Well they've been getting away with it for years seemingly without any real consequences. Why should we assume corporations behave morally when there are no sanctions?
Swoerd 1y ago
>Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro. It was already a niche device, but it's a ghost town. This isn’t really about that. The reality is that the AVP costs $3500,- and realistically, how many users are there? It’s much more likely that developers will begin building for VisionOS once Apple releases a more affordable device.
- mjamesaustin 1y ago
  This is the reality of development when you don't have support from developers - they will follow the money. Contrast this with early iPhone app development where people were turning out in droves EXCITED to build something. Apple has lost the trust and enthusiasm of the developer community by making their lives harder and harder over time. Of course they aren't going to lift a finger now unless it will make them money. The same wouldn't be true if Apple provided them the support to get excited about a new platform.
- CharlesW 1y ago
  > The reality is that the AVP costs $3500,- and realistically, how many users are there? This is exactly what everyone said about the original Macintosh, which cost $7,695 in 2025 dollars. The prediction value of the price of this AVP model is close to zero.
  - xp84 1y ago
    Does Apple have the willingness to sell a hypothetical future device for cheap enough to appeal to the mass market without the third-party developers who have thus far completely ignored it? Just on what comes with it alone. Nothing but a web browser and a bunch of iPad apps. It's expensive hardware, and admittedly much of the appeal is said to come from the amazing high resolution and perfect motion input. That puts a floor on the BOM. And Apple hasn't sold a loss leader in checks watch ever? Certainly not in the past 25 years. And remember, you need more than us on HN to spark enthusiasm amongst developers of the calibre they need. Think AAA game studios, major sports leagues to produce premium courtside experiences, etc. The only way forward I see for Apple Vision (Pro) is if they put their money to work. They can pick: 1. Subsidize it down to upper-middle-class impulse buy/middle class splurge, so about $600-800. This is still a stretch because even at that price it's hard to justify as-is today, but iPhone Pro Max and AirPods Pro sell and they don't do that much more than what you can get for half the price. 2. Back up a truck full of cash to NBA and/or NFL for courtside/sidelines experiences at every game. 3. Back up a truck of cash to the biggest names in gaming to nab full exclusives, and make sure those games are so good even diehard Apple haters can't resist it. Anything besides those 3, in my view, will not launch this platform.
hedora 1y ago
It's been under a month since Apple's lawyer took over the NLRB and immediately made a bunch of lawsuits over union suppression, employee rights and widespread employee harassment go away. https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/04/02/trump-admin-poaches-apple-attorney-for-nlrb-future-of-labor-complaints-in-doubt https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/04/02/trump-admin-poach... I'm hoping this judge's ruling will actually be enforced by the executive branch, but I'm not holding my breath. I wonder if there are any mechanisms that allow state law enforcement to enforce federal judicial orders.
- weaksauce 1y ago
  if it’s anything like wells fargo 8 million fine for opening up bank accounts in peoples names without their knowledge... after a 1 million donation to trump’s inauguration the fine will go down to 150,000 dollars.
HPsquared 1y ago
Developers, developers, developers, developers!
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
paxys 1y ago
That's because they are above everyone else. Tell me — do you think this executive or any other higher-up at Apple will face any real consequences because of this? In the absolute worst case the company will pay a fine in the order of tens of millions and the whole thing will go away. And the executive in question will get a fat bonus and promotion for his loyalty.
Octoth0rpe 1y ago
> Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro I really don't think Apple's dev policies has had anything to do with this. The issue is the price - it's simply inaccessible to the vast majority of consumers, even many moderately high income consumers due to its value being somewhat unproven.
ysofunny 1y ago
> The sheer arrogance of American leaders is astounding. there, fixed it... the top brass at USG also behave this way, they're following the leader (or more likely the other way around, USG behaving like a private interest corporation)
pixelatedindex 1y ago
To be fair, the top brass at Google, Facebook, etc also think they are above everyone else. Even Trump is above the law these days.

pyronik19 1y ago

Unfortunately their arrogance isn't false bravado. iPhones brand is extremely strong. Funny aside I know many women who won't date men who's text come up in green bubbles... thats branding.

xp84 1y ago
I believe you -- though it's not surprising in the USA. Apple absolutely dominates the US market. I'd estimate of the top 75% of incomes Apple has at least an 80% market share. I live in a high-income area and the only Androids I ever see are carried by my house cleaners. And among young people it's only more intense because teens are so obsessed with brand cachet (as they always have been). Now, on HN we know some people, though plenty wealthy enough to afford Apple, are choosing Android for function. But I doubt most of the public even thinks about that choice through that lens. Green bubble is the same as arriving to pick up your date in a 2002 Civic. It projects "I'm probably broke." Statistically. In the US only.

philistine 1y ago

The Playdate, made by Panic, has a more active store than Vision Pro.

CharlesW 1y ago
The Playdate store has ~300 games. Apple Vision Pro has ~3,000 native apps, plus millions more compatible iPhone/iPad apps.

jerjerjer 1y ago

> Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro. I think it's mostly the lack of users. Apple snubs mobile developers all the time, but since they gate access to a large chunk of well-paying customers, developers are ready to jump through any hoops. If there were millions of Apple Vision Pro users I'm sure the developers would have followed, but it's of course a chicken and egg situation considering Vision Pro lack of content.

chmod775 1y ago
What killed the Vision Pro is the complete lack of support for the two main things people use VR for. Productivity is a distant third behind the likes of VR Chat and pornography. If Apple managed to capture only 1% of VR Chat's monthly userbase, they would've tripled their pathetic sales numbers. Apple tried to focus on productivity and some light entertainment and didn't even throw the other two a bone by supporting a PC link feature. Particularly they didn't make a physical link possible - Wifi is not reliable/high bandwidth enough for most people, so those third party solutions aren't cutting it. Apple users are mostly locked out of the existing PC VR ecosystem - Apple didn't have to rely on developers writing dedicated apps.
- spacedcowboy 1y ago
  I bought the AVP for one thing only - long haul flights. It makes the experience completely and utterly different, and it's less than the cost of a business seat. It "works for me".
  - nemomarx 1y ago
    what kind of flights are you buying that cost 3500 for a business seat? do you get them very last minute?
    - chmod775 1y ago
      Pretty standard for a ~10-12 hour flight. It's not like there's much reason to care about comforts on short flights. Anyone can tolerate economy for an hour and you'd probably not get out your VR headset for a short hop either.

pjmlp 1y ago

Apple always has been like that, see The Cult of Mac book. However, it appears being at the edge of bankruptcy, and having turned the ship around has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. When Apple Store came out it was great. I was a Nokia employee at the time, and 30% was a dream compared with what you would have to pay to phone operators, app listenings in magazines with SMS download codes, for Blackberry, Symbian, Windows CE, Pocket PC, Brew, J2ME,... However we are now in different times, and acting as if the developers didn't have anything to do with it, it was all thanks to Apple's vision of the future, it is pure arrogance, and yes the Vision Pro was the first victim. Here is another one, if they do really announce an UI revamp at WWDC 2025, I bet most will ignore it.

throwanem 1y ago
Honestly, I think they're less jealous of money than rep. A man like Jobs would rather die under torture than be laughed at, and even almost 15 years gone, we still see his mark.
giancarlostoro 1y ago
> has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. I get the exact same feeling. They're afraid of collapsing despite being way ahead.
- layer8 1y ago
  They aren't that much ahead anymore.
behnamoh 1y ago
> However, it appears being at the edge of bankruptcy, and having turned the ship around has made them paranoid of losing a single cent. That was more than 20 years ago, under a totally different market condition and Apple leadership. Back then, they needed developers to turn the ship around, now they think devs need them. They's a cash cow and act like assholes.
- pjmlp 1y ago

Workaccount2 1y ago

I wouldn't blame them, Americans on the whole fall over themselves to defend Apple. Apple is the magic entity that figured out how to send full videos and pictures in text messages. Something a google android could never figure out. Apple phones didn't come bloated with garbage. You go to the apple store for help rather than the verizon store. You are above others when you have an iPhone. Apple's external veneer is stellar, and the overwhelming majority of people don't know and don't care what it is holding up that veneer.

nostromo 1y ago
I want Apple to protect me from app developers. For me, it’s a feature not a bug. I want them to prevent social media companies from tracking my device across my other apps. I want them to integrate billing so I can easily cancel subscriptions or get refunds. I want them to require Oauth that allows me to keep my email private from app developers. These features make my customer experience better not worse. I’m sorry it sucks for app developers to make less money but for customers it’s mostly a good thing.
- mperham 1y ago
  None of that requires a 30% cut.
  - jobs_throwaway 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - roamerz 1y ago
    Requires, no but in all regards it’s a great deal for app developers. You write code they do everything else. You want options? They exist (Windows/Android) but are all shitified minefields of commercial ads and poor design choices that I only use when required. Is Apple perfect? No far from it. When I buy and use their products though I feel more like the customer than the product. It’s a tool built for me not their advertisers.

Tryk 1y ago

Well they've been getting away with it for years seemingly without any real consequences. Why should we assume corporations behave morally when there are no sanctions?

Swoerd 1y ago

>Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro. It was already a niche device, but it's a ghost town. This isn’t really about that. The reality is that the AVP costs $3500,- and realistically, how many users are there? It’s much more likely that developers will begin building for VisionOS once Apple releases a more affordable device.

mjamesaustin 1y ago
This is the reality of development when you don't have support from developers - they will follow the money. Contrast this with early iPhone app development where people were turning out in droves EXCITED to build something. Apple has lost the trust and enthusiasm of the developer community by making their lives harder and harder over time. Of course they aren't going to lift a finger now unless it will make them money. The same wouldn't be true if Apple provided them the support to get excited about a new platform.
CharlesW 1y ago
> The reality is that the AVP costs $3500,- and realistically, how many users are there? This is exactly what everyone said about the original Macintosh, which cost $7,695 in 2025 dollars. The prediction value of the price of this AVP model is close to zero.
- xp84 1y ago
  Does Apple have the willingness to sell a hypothetical future device for cheap enough to appeal to the mass market without the third-party developers who have thus far completely ignored it? Just on what comes with it alone. Nothing but a web browser and a bunch of iPad apps. It's expensive hardware, and admittedly much of the appeal is said to come from the amazing high resolution and perfect motion input. That puts a floor on the BOM. And Apple hasn't sold a loss leader in checks watch ever? Certainly not in the past 25 years. And remember, you need more than us on HN to spark enthusiasm amongst developers of the calibre they need. Think AAA game studios, major sports leagues to produce premium courtside experiences, etc. The only way forward I see for Apple Vision (Pro) is if they put their money to work. They can pick: 1. Subsidize it down to upper-middle-class impulse buy/middle class splurge, so about $600-800. This is still a stretch because even at that price it's hard to justify as-is today, but iPhone Pro Max and AirPods Pro sell and they don't do that much more than what you can get for half the price. 2. Back up a truck full of cash to NBA and/or NFL for courtside/sidelines experiences at every game. 3. Back up a truck of cash to the biggest names in gaming to nab full exclusives, and make sure those games are so good even diehard Apple haters can't resist it. Anything besides those 3, in my view, will not launch this platform.

hedora 1y ago

It's been under a month since Apple's lawyer took over the NLRB and immediately made a bunch of lawsuits over union suppression, employee rights and widespread employee harassment go away. https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/04/02/trump-admin-poaches-apple-attorney-for-nlrb-future-of-labor-complaints-in-doubt https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/04/02/trump-admin-poach... I'm hoping this judge's ruling will actually be enforced by the executive branch, but I'm not holding my breath. I wonder if there are any mechanisms that allow state law enforcement to enforce federal judicial orders.

weaksauce 1y ago
if it’s anything like wells fargo 8 million fine for opening up bank accounts in peoples names without their knowledge... after a 1 million donation to trump’s inauguration the fine will go down to 150,000 dollars.

HPsquared 1y ago

Developers, developers, developers, developers!

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

paxys 1y ago

That's because they are above everyone else. Tell me — do you think this executive or any other higher-up at Apple will face any real consequences because of this? In the absolute worst case the company will pay a fine in the order of tens of millions and the whole thing will go away. And the executive in question will get a fat bonus and promotion for his loyalty.

Octoth0rpe 1y ago

> Look at how snubbing developers has worked out for the Apple Vision Pro I really don't think Apple's dev policies has had anything to do with this. The issue is the price - it's simply inaccessible to the vast majority of consumers, even many moderately high income consumers due to its value being somewhat unproven.

ysofunny 1y ago

> The sheer arrogance of American leaders is astounding. there, fixed it... the top brass at USG also behave this way, they're following the leader (or more likely the other way around, USG behaving like a private interest corporation)

pixelatedindex 1y ago

To be fair, the top brass at Google, Facebook, etc also think they are above everyone else. Even Trump is above the law these days.