15 ms·
GPT 4.5 level for 1% of the price
- decide1000 2y agoERNIE 4.5: Input and output prices start as low as $0.55 per 1M tokens and $2.2 per 1M tokens, respectively. Comparison models: https://x.com/Baidu_Inc/status/1901094083508220035/photo/1 https://x.com/Baidu_Inc/status/1901094083508220035/photo/1
- jampekka 2y agoAnd open weights promised for June. China is really taking over in the ML game. https://x.com/Baidu_Inc/status/1890292032318652719 https://x.com/Baidu_Inc/status/1890292032318652719
- vdfs 2y agoWhat's AI 3 months in real world time? could be old or obsolete by then
- camillomiller 2y agoI hear the rumbling coming in Altmanland
- jampekka 2y agoI wonder what's the excuse for keeping the OpenAI models closed "for the benefit of all humanity" now that models as powerful are widely available as open weights.
- mppm 2y agoWe need to raise 1.63 Gazillion dollars to stay ahead of the game, to make sure that the newest models remain in the hands of an independent nonprofit acting for the benefit of all humanity, rather than some authoritarian regime... And investors willing to write a check for 1.63 Gazillion dollars require the prospect of profitability and hence a closed-source product.
- ben_w 2y agoNash equilibrium. Trying to create global enforcement against defection. "Defect" is a dominant strategy, absent enforcement. Not sure I buy that the payout matrix actually is the iterated prisoner's dilemma, but that's the argument.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- InkCanon 2y ago[flagged]
- motorest 2y agoYou know Elon Musk screwed up badly if this sort of news counts as good news to its camp.
- Mountain_Skies 2y agoLots of people want Altman to lose for reasons completely unrelated to the partisan political posturing in the United States. Wonder if some of the early LLM "leaks" from other entities happened because they wanted to keep Altman from achieving his dream of LLMs being hidden behind large thick walls under the control of a select few.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- simonw 2y agoAnyone managed to try this yet? https://yiyan.baidu.com/ https://yiyan.baidu.com/ appears to require a Chinese phone number.
- pogue 2y agoI'm trying to figure out the same thing. They make claums about it being totally free, but everything is in Chinese and you appear to need a Chinese mobile number to register.
- lopkeny12ko 2y ago"Free" does not mean "available to everyone."
- andsoitis 2y agoThe tweet is in English, which strongly suggests that the product is accessible in English, but then doesn’t appear to be. That begs the question what the point is of an announcement in English?
- infecto 2y agoGreat PR in a national pride kind of way. I can only imagine DeepSeeks PR earlier this year was a huge win for them internally in the country.
- siva7 2y agoAmerica, is this the future you want?
- borgdefenser 2y agoSurely, this is as inevitable as not being able to use Wechat as an American. The models aren't what worry me anyway. China is going to kick our ass when it comes to AI integration into society and the economy. Imagine the difficulties faced by America vs China in integrating AI into healthcare. We are just too worried about winning this AI model sporting event even though the entire concept is flawed and doomed to failure. We actually have to figure out how to use these models for more than how many Rs are in strawberry. That appears to be the actual hard part. Of course, none of this is helped by having wasted an entire generation of some of America's best minds on javascript programming for obscene profit.
- pacifika 2y agoIs the title claim correct? It is not mentioned as such in the tweet.
- Alifatisk 2y agoYeah I was wondering about that too, the benchmarks look good but this seems to be more like a competitor to GPT 4o, not GPT-4.5
- throaway55623 2y agoI feel like Deepseek had such good media reception, and SOTA models are so close that "GPT4x performance at y% the price" is an easy tagline that companies will be using in the coming 6 months. It's an easy goal to achieve because of diminishing returns in compute and game-able benchmarking, cherry-picking, distilling etc. Not to say there can't be actual interesting improvements in performance/cost, but in many cases it will be more of a marketing angle.
- aubanel 2y agoNo it's not: their model is only on GPT-4.5 level on a few, saturated/cherry-picked benchmarks.
- hjgjhyuhy 2y ago[flagged]
- motorest 2y ago[flagged]
- jiggawatts 2y ago[flagged]
- sshine 2y agoJust because people see it this way now doesn’t mean that is how it all ends. The perspective of historians implies that they look back and see that it was, indeed, the end. Which it isn’t.
- zwirbl 2y agoNope, it seems more like the point where the fall accelerates
- sshine 2y agoThere’s a chance the Trump administration can bring the US out of its massive debt hole caused by every single recent administration before it. So yeah, it’s definitely accelerating, but the outcome has not been decided. I’ll happily take more downvotes to point out that society hasn’t collapsed yet in spite of your feelings. :-)
- pessimizer 2y agoEven before he took office or did anything.
- pessimizer 2y agoHow did Trump make US LLMs complacent in two months? I had no idea Deepseek was a Trump grift.
- infrawhispers 2y agoNICE. This is the capitalism I signed up for…not OpenAI and Anthropic charging $200/mo for an LLM while trying to do regulatory capture.
- ixtli 2y agoI can’t tell if this is an ironic comment lol
- andai 2y agoActually $20,000. https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/05/openai-reportedly-plans-to-charge-up-to-20000-a-month-for-specialized-ai-agents/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/05/openai-reportedly-plans-to...
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago>AI company to other companies: For $20k, we can replace your workers >Open access LLMs to companies: That's nice, for $2k, we can destroy your business model
- logicchains 2y agoQuite impressive if true because historically Baidu's models have tended to under-perform.
- patrickhogan1 2y agoWhat's interesting about Baidu's AI model Ernie is that Baidu and its founder, Robin Li, have been working on AI for a long time. Robin Li has a strong background in AI research going back many years. Also notable is that some of the key early research on scaling laws—important for understanding how AI models improve as they get bigger—was done by Baidu's AI lab. This shows Baidu's significant role in the ongoing development of AI. https://research.baidu.com/Blog/index-view?id=89 https://research.baidu.com/Blog/index-view?id=89 I am excited to see Baidu catchup. It feels like they have earned it. Being very early.
- ninetyninenine 2y agoDo most people feel the way you do? This is one factor out of multitudes of factors representing Chinas rise as a super power that will eclipse the US in technological, economical and military might. I’m excited but most people are patriotic and I feel things like this or even the whole situation with BYD producing better cars then Tesla is something people take as an attack to their identity. If not an attack it’s definitely represents an eroding of their patriotic identity. Unfortunately Trump can’t slap a tariff on this. Maybe he can ban it like he was going to do with TikTok? The US really needs to get off its high horse and not associate its identity with being the sole economic super power in the world.
- entropyneur 2y agoIt's not about patriotism. Many people outside the US, myself included, see a problem with authoritarian superpowers per se. Although now that the US is rapidly drifting towards authoritarianism, that just seems like an inevitable future to prepare for.
- ninetyninenine 2y agoAgreed. Within the US though a lot of it is definitely patriotism. But even for Europe a new super power on the block is not necessarily a good thing. Would you prepare for such a future by banning TikTok and placing tariffs on all goods like BYD cars? I would say no. Those acts are done out of patriotism.
- ksec 2y agoI guess this is the end of OpenAI? No more dreaming of Universal Basic Compute for AI, Multi Trillion for Fabs and Semi? This is just like everything in China. They will find ways to drive down cost to below anyone previously imagined, subsidised or not. And even just competing among themselves with DeepSeek vs ERNIE and Open sourcing them meant there is very little to no space for most. Both DRAM and NAND industry for Samsung / Micron may soon be gone, I thought this was going to happen sooner but it seems finally happening. GPU and CPU Designs are already in the pipelines with RISC-V, IMG and ARM-China. OLED is catching up, LCD is already taken over. Batteries we know. The only thing left is foundries. Huawei may release its own Open Source PC OS soon. We are slowly but surely witnessing the collapse of Western Tech scene.
- f6v 2y agoYou’re saying this as if you’ve seen their books and know the pricing is sustainable.
- InkCanon 2y agoBased on what Altman says and leaked reports, OpenAI is actually losing money on every new user. Unlike traditional software, maintaining a SOTA AI service doesn't scale. The conundrum he faces is he can either quantize models and slash R&D to try to turn a profit now but lose the SOTA race, or keep pumping money and hope the rest bleed out. He's opted for the second, having raised 10B in 2023, 6.6B in 2024 and reports of another raise in 2025. He's probably trying desperately for the middle ground where an explosion of high price subscriptions replacing workers massively boost his revenue. So he's also reportedly projecting revenue 4x to 13B this year.
- kleiba 2y agoUS: Could I interest you in my lunch? China: Thanks, already on it.
- Logge 2y agoGTP 4.5 is not a reasoning model. Reasoning models outperform it clearly. Even OpenAIs o3-mini is smarter while being magnitudes cheaper. Those 2 should be compared in my opinion. GPT 4.5 feels like a failed experiment to see how far you can push non-thinking models.
- logicchains 2y ago>GPT 4.5 feels like a failed experiment to see how far you can push non-thinking models It's not a failed experiment, it's a very good experiment, because it produced a very useful piece of information for the world (that there's limited return to further size scaling).
- Logge 2y agoGood point. But pushing it as a product with that knowledge still puts it in a weird spot for me.
- azinman2 2y agoOutperform in what way? Reasoning models may be able to solve problems correctly a bigger percentage of time, but they burn many tokens to get there. So they’re much less efficient, both in latency and ultimately environmental cost.
- colesantiago 2y agoGood. OpenAI, Anthropic, et al, are getting sucked into a vortex of competition with China that is ultimately going to zero. AI is the ultimate race to zero. There is no moat. AI and intelligence is becoming a commodity with nobody (except Nvidia) is making money. This is known for a while now. The acceleration and adoption would only make those in the middle who aren't aware of the change happening without a job and unable to get a job. The US-China competition in addition to Jevons Paradox will be so viciously fierce that jobs will be removed as soon as they are created.
- naveen99 2y agoIntelligence can not be a commodity, because complexity is infinite. By definition the top 1% in understanding complexity are the top 1% in intelligence.
- gitfan86 2y agoThere is a interesting dynamic of supply and demand here. 1% is basically free for all existing use cases today. BUT new use cases are now realistic. The question is how long until demand for the new use cases shows up
- ezst 2y agoWhat use cases? We are still in the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" phase, which might end before anything of value is found (if previous fads serve as a lesson here).
- gitfan86 2y agoVision related tasks like Waymo self driving cars and then also productivity enhancement like coding assistance and writing.
- ezst 2y agoI doubt diffusion algorithms are a good fit for the kind of real time computer vision processing that self driving cars depend upon, do you have good sources for that? About writing assistance, based on our office/copilot recent rollout, I don't see that getting past the novelty effect and turning into something most people will want to pay for (besides for programming and niche use cases).
- pera 2y agohttps://nitter.space/Baidu_Inc/status/1901089355890036897 https://nitter.space/Baidu_Inc/status/1901089355890036897
- buyucu 2y agoI got flagged the last time I said this, but lets try again: OpenAI is increasingly irrelevant. They no longer push the boundaries of technology.
- ukuina 2y agoThey are still the benchmark against which all LLM progress and pricing is compared. The general public will be using "ChatGPT" as a generic term for an AI chat interface for years.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- buyucu 2y agoMy parents call all SUVs as 'Jeep's. I don't think it helps the company that makes Jeeps that much.
- rhaskela 2y ago[flagged]
- arnaudsm 2y ago[comment deleted]
- tw312317 2y agoThe tech CEOs have been supporting wokeness throughout the Obama, first Trump and Biden administrations. They started pledging loyalty to Trump just 2 months ago. 2 months do not erase 12 years.
- ezst 2y agoThey are the modern age robbers barrons, money coming before a sense of morals, ethics or patriotism is all the signalling there is here. Oh, and it sounds like your information bubble isn't the healthiest.
- ezst 2y ago(and since this is met with downvotes, I will substantiate the last part by saying that people employing "woke" effortlessly like it's a real and casual word, tend to be exposed to it a lot while not realising that it is a carefully engineered derogatory word meant to sow division and derail discussions)
- curl-up 2y agoCheap means small, small means low Q&A scores. I know that this isn't that important for the majority of applications, but I feel that over-reliance on RAG whenever Q&A performance is discussed is quite misleading. Being able to clearly and correctly discuss science topics, to write about art, to understand nuances in (previously unseen) literature, etc. is impossible simply through powerful-reasoning + RAG, and so many advanced use cases would be enabled by this. Sonnet 3.5+ and GPT 4.5 are still unparalleled here, and it's not even close.
- GavCo 2y agoSurprised nobody has pointed this out yet — this is not a GPT 4.5 level model. The source for this claim is apparently a chart in the second tweet in the thread, which compares ERNIE-4.5 to GPT-4.5 across 15 benchmarks and shows that ERNIE-4.5 scores an average of 79.6 vs 79.14 for GPT-4.5. The problem is that the benchmarks they included in the average are cherry-picked. They included benchmarks on 6 Chinese language datasets (C-Eval, CMMLU, Chinese SimpleQA, CNMO2024, CMath, and CLUEWSC) along with many of the standard datasets that all of the labs report results for. On 4 of these Chinese benchmarks, ERNIE-4.5 outperforms GPT-4.5 by a big margin, which skews the whole average. This is not how results are normally reported and (together with the name) seems like a deliberate attempt to misrepresent how strong the model is. Bottom line, ERNIE-4.5 is substantially worse than GPT-4.5 on most of the difficult benchmarks, matches GPT-4.5 and other top models on saturated benchmarks, and is better only on (some) Chinese datasets.
- iandanforth 2y agoSo, fairly accurate if you're Chinese?
- GavCo 2y agoIt doesn't really matter what nationality or ethnicity you are, but if you communicate with the model in Chinese you might get better results from this model. Then again, if they've misrepresented the strength of the model overall, there might be some other shenanigans with their results. The fact that their results show their model is worse than GPT-4.5 on 2 Chinese language benchmarks, while it's so much stronger on some of the others, is a bit weird.
- bdelmas 2y agoYou know what's sad? Every Western company has been using this technique for a long time...
- InkCanon 2y agoTo try to avoid the inevitable long arguments about which benchmarks or sets of them are universally better: there is no such thing anymore. And even within benchmarks, we're increasingly squinting to see the difference.
- jamesblonde 2y agoBaidu have a long history in the scalable distributed deep learning space. PaddlePaddle (so good they named it twice) predates Ray and supports both data parallel and model-parallel training. It is still being developed. https://github.com/PaddlePaddle/Paddle https://github.com/PaddlePaddle/Paddle They have pedigry.
- folli 2y agoHijacking this thread: what's currently the cheapest way to get structured data out of a PDF? I assume there's some reasonable tool out there to convert PDFs to Markup and than feed it to some LLM API with okay costs (Gemini? DeepSeek?). Any suggestions?
- malshe 2y agoI’m feeding pdfs directly to Gemini to extract tables and so far the results are pretty good. There was a post on HN a few days ago about using Gemini for this task.
- dar8919 2y agohttps://mistral.ai/news/mistral-ocr https://mistral.ai/news/mistral-ocr , recent release. Its been a step function improvement for my pipelines
- cubefox 2y agoThe title is editorialized in a misleading manner.
- pshirshov 2y ago[flagged]
- rightbyte 2y agoHis point is that it is not... It is not a wild take that Facebook, Twitter, Google et al. is undermining society and our social interactions on a deep philosophical level.
- ohso4 2y agoLmarena.ai is a very accurate eval (with stylecontrol). Other benchmarks like AIME and whatever can be trained on/optimized for and therefore should not be trusted. Most ai companies do something fishy to boost their benchmark scores.
- unhappy_meaning 2y agoMan the AI race is just launching at all fronts.
- hackburg 2y ago[dead]
- itsTyrion 2y agoWake up honey, another company burned a few dozen gigawatthours on a shitty LLM