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Volkswagen reintroducing physical controls for vital functions
- bloomingeek 2y agoMy 2021 Ram truck has a touch screen that must be used to adjust the air vent control. Meaning I have to take my eyes off the road to move the air to the windshield. Dangerous and stupid.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- amelius 2y agoSomewhat related. What are your favorite physical controls on Digikey?
- BrenBarn 2y agoWe can only hope it's the start of a trend. I can't think of a single car feature I would want on a touchscreen instead of a physical control, except I guess something like GPS (which I don't really consider a car feature, but maybe that's just because I'm getting old and curmudgeonly).
- precommunicator 2y agoAny feature that you have to fully stop to activate and is not often used IMO would be fine on a touchscreen, e.g disabling ESP.
- amelius 2y agoThe upside of a touchscreen is that you can make the buttons disappear if they go out of context.
- nottorp 2y agoWho decides the context?
- phatfish 2y agoRandom know-it-alls on the internet obviously.
- bipson 2y agoThe point is that those "essential functions" never go out of context.
- amelius 2y agoIt's easy to end up with something like this though: https://phonewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/ne210_kx_nt680b_f.png https://phonewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/ne210_kx_nt...
- CamperBob2 2y agoWhat's wrong with that? The optimal UI for anything remotely complex arguably includes both physical and touchscreen controls.
- ano-ther 2y agoI‘d be interested in an economic comparison. How much does it actually save to replace physical controls with a touchscreen?
- NullPrefix 2y agoSave? Where are you getting this idea from? Move from buttons to touchscreen raised the price because touchscreens are expensive. Return to buttons will raise the price once again because buttons are extra parts.
- johannes1234321 2y agoThe touch screen is there for other reasons (setup, navigation, ...) anyways and won't go away. (Not) Having physical buttons then is a cost factor.
- afiori 2y agoPrice is different from cost
- Underphil 2y agoA switch requires a physical and tangible thing to be produced. A touchscreen button is done in software and costs nothing extra to produce. You already know this I'm sure.
- NullPrefix 2y ago>A touchscreen button is done in software and costs nothing extra to produce Touchscreen had to be added, during the big move from buttons to touchscreen. It didn't just appear out of thin air.
- jqpabc123 2y agoHyundai for the win. They do use touch screen functions --- but mainly for setup and configuration --- not for basic controls while driving. It's illegal to use a touch screen phone while driving in many areas --- and for good reasons. So why is it ok and legal for manufacturers to mandate the use of their built-in touch screen while driving? Seems contradictory to me.
- LightBug1 2y agoYep - people think of Tesla first for EV's, but (for the overall package) Hyundai are far ahead. Emphasis on 'overall package'
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Izikiel43 2y agoMazda as well
- kgermino 2y agoTho most of the “physical buttons” on my Hyundai are non-tactile, capacitive buttons. I love my Ioniq I think a lot of ways it’s a better package than Tesla’s but I still miss the physical buttons from my Honda. I can’t get close to a button and find the right one by feel when it’s a capacitive panel
- jqpabc123 2y agoI haven't driven an Ioniq yet but it sounds like they too may have taken a turn down the wrong path. I regularly drive a fairly new Elantra where all the essential driving controls are still physical with tactile feedback. My favorite is the environmental control. A single, big easy to find knob to adjust the temperature without your eyes leaving the road. Turn left (counter-clockwise) for colder, right for hotter. The car takes it from there and selects heat or a/c as needed with an appropriate fan speed. You can still adjust manually but I rarely do so.
- sschueller 2y agoThis whole thing started with Tesla. Re-inventing the wheel because they think they know better. Musk's MO. Other car makers only see the initial sales and jump on the wagon to copy and undo what was learned over many years to be safer only to then creep back many years later. Same thing with Apple and removing the ESC key in favor of the touch bar or only having USB-C ports on a power user laptop with video over USB-C still being uncommon in conference rooms. So much wasted time and resources. Soon we will have removable batteries in phones and there will be people that have never seen this before... At least no one died not being able to plug in their laptop in a conference room but someone probably did die operating the AC and hitting a deer because they had to look down.
- lm2s 2y agoInterestingly almost everything VW will reintroduce is already physical on Tesla, no? The only thing with no physical buttons on Tesla are the temperature and fans. Or am I missing something?
- pja 2y ago> Interestingly almost everything VW will reintroduce is already physical on Tesla, no? The only thing with no physical buttons on Tesla are the temperature and fans. Or am I missing something? The steering wheel on modern Tesla's has those godawful turn buttons instead of a proper indicator stalk. Fine for (most of) the US market but wildly impractical for anywhere you need to use the turn signals mid turn. Anywhere the road system uses roundabouts for instance. To some extent this is just US parochialism leaking out into the rest of the world, but it's typical of Musk style design to not really think through the reasons for existing design choices.
- amarcheschi 2y agoNot having tactile feedback on turn indicators by stock is absurd imho
- nottorp 2y ago> The steering wheel on modern Tesla's has those godawful turn buttons instead of a proper indicator stalk. I've driven one with an indicator stalk. > Fine for (most of) the US market but wildly impractical for anywhere you need to use the turn signals mid turn. Anywhere the road system uses roundabouts for instance. ... but it was "smart" and didn't physically move and it was useless except for 90 degree turns. I call this the "designed in California" disease. Incidentally, we should be glad Apple abandoned their car plans too.
- xattt 2y agoI appreciate that automakers are not doubling down and creating capacitive touch pedals.
- euroderf 2y agoSpeaking of which... driving barefoot is a different experience; give it a try if it's legal in your jurisdiction.
- porridgeraisin 2y ago> if it's legal It's illegal in some places? I'm in India and I learnt to and mostly always drive barefoot. If I try to drive with shoes it just doesn't feel right. I can't get the tactile feedback right. Have to get used to it I suppose. But then I don't really wear shoes that much (slippers do just fine for most of my day)
- bipson 2y agoVery illegal in most of the EU AFAIK
- technothrasher 2y agoA quick search showed that it is illegal in Spain, but not Germany, France, or the UK, and nothing really showing up either way about any other European country. Though I didn't dig down enough to find legal advice I would actually trust.
- bipson 2y agoIt's not that clear cut it seems. For private drivers it is not illegal per se. But if you have an accident, they (police, prosecution, insurance) will quickly blame it on unfit shoewear. There is (legally accepted) consensus in Germany and Austria that a regular, closed shoe without heels gives you best control. Barefoot is IMHO treated unfairly, if you're used to drive barefoot. And living in a country where people wear shoes most of the time, they will assume you're not used to it.
- svelle 2y agoA feel like people are missing that this change isn't just for the touchscreen but especially for the abysmal capacitive buttons on the steering wheel VW introduced with the Golf 8 and the id models. One of the worst design decisions I've yet to see in a car. Right next to their decision to put a capacitive slider for volume and/or heating right below the touchscreen where you'd usually rest your fingers when using said touchscreen while driving.
- technothrasher 2y agoThe Porsche Macan's whole center console went capacitive touch a few years back. It is atrociously bad compared to the earlier cars with physical buttons. It's impossible to find any of the "buttons" on the expanse of smooth surface without taking your eyes off the road.
- yakshaving_jgt 2y agoI have a 2012 Cayenne and the cockpit is truly a thing of beauty. It feels like being a pilot. I hope they bring the buttons back. Photo attached for context. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKb34qtg0cf/?igsh=MTc3Y3Jpc2gwbDBrNQ== https://www.instagram.com/p/CKb34qtg0cf/?igsh=MTc3Y3Jpc2gwbD...
- AceyMan 2y ago+1 your Cayenne We just got a clean 2013 Honda CR-V (loaded LX-L model) and it's got buttons & knobs (and dial gauges!). Really nice car, it feels like a Lexus inside. There is a small touchscreen, but it's mainly for the XM radio & Nav.
- Yhippa 2y agoOn top of that, the slider isn't backlit, right?
- k8sToGo 2y agoIt is in the newest generation
- 1970-01-01 2y ago>the volume, the heating on each side of the car, the fans and the hazard light – below the screen,” Not mentioned: wipers, shifter, and signals. Everyone here should consider these vital to driving the car.
- appointment 2y agoI don't think VW ever moved away from conventional stalks for wipers and indicators. The drive mode is also on a stalk in the ID.3.
- ThinkBeat 2y agoThis is great. Dedicated buttons are far easier and faster to operate. Plus if your tablet cracks open you can still control most features. (I think). For a while I drove some bigger pickup trucks. (Long ago). They often bragged that the knobs and buttons were big enough to be operated with gloves on. Pretty great when it is cold out. and really easy to operate too. Modern cars do need a lot more buttons so making them smaller is nessescary.
- seb1204 2y agoI don't agree with you that we need more smaller buttons. Nowadays you can have buttons and dials that you can roll freely or step and press (in, and even to sides). All these actions are sufficiently different to me. If done well the button can even be context sensitive when combined well with the car UI.
- riz1 2y agoThis news brought joy back to my life. I live in Berlin and often rent these Miles car share cars. The ID3 is an absolute joy to drive, way better than the Tesla's out there. But for me, those touch buttons are an actual nuisance.
- mnahkies 2y agoIt's great to see this change in direction. I had the opportunity to drive a Tesla recently, and I was pretty blown away by how hostile the ux was. Even the indicator stalk has no tactile feedback leading to me indicating left then right multiple times after completing a simple lane change (as I pushed it slightly too far for the lane change mode so it didn't shut off automatically). Don't get me started on things like the AC and window wipers being behind the touchscreen, it's like they designed it to require a copilot. It's driver aid features also get easily tricked leading to random steering corrections and slamming on the brakes. I'd love to know if anyone's analyzed the rate of rear end collisions compared to older/simpler cars, as I suspect it could be statistically higher. It was also fairly amusing parking it in the garage - it seemed to mistake our dog for a motorbike and the other vehicle as a truck with the 3 of us colliding, glad it didn't try and automatically phone in the "collisions"
- lotsofpulp 2y agoI drive a Model Y almost every day, and I don’t feel inconvenienced by any of the digital controls, except the lack of volume knob if you have a passenger and they want to control the volume. I simply don’t need to adjust anything except music. And lack of CarPlay, especially due to how convenient SharePlay is with other car passengers. Autopilot has also been sufficiently good for the price at which the car is sold at. At $40k, I did not find a competitor with a better version of lane assist.
- porphyra 2y agoHonestly, it seems like people who clamor for physical controls are a vocal minority --- Teslas sell very well [0] and owner satisfaction is very high [1] despite the loud complaints from non-Tesla drivers online. It seems most people who actually drive Teslas are happy with them, and even controversial things like steering buttons take 5 minutes to get used to. [0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-worlds-best-selling-cars-from-2024/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-worlds-best-sell... [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-liked-car-brands-a1291429338/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s...
- numpad0 2y agoDoes this mean they've given up dissolving infotainment(nav) into the rest of the car as a product? Or something else?
- thih9 2y agoI don’t think anyone ever wished for non-physical controls. I can understand them in phones, tablets or other small and generic devices, trading ergonomy for portability; the net effect on UX could be positive. But in the context of cars (i.e. large and specialized) I see only net negative UX.
- usrusr 2y agoOne explanation why it happened in cars, beyond the direct cost of the buttons: the cost of managing the button sets for all the possible combinations of opt-in features. Perhaps the option space is a little smaller in export markets, but when you look at the combinatorial explosion of feature options you can pick for your average German car in Germany, it's just mindboggling. All that money that didn't go into the drive train (because all the parts of a high performance ICE drivetrain aren't that much different from those of, say, a Dacia), it went into maintaining an absolutely large zoo of upsell options.
- Vinnl 2y agoPresumably like other auto makers will also do, with Euro NCAP giving lower ratings to those who don't? https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-back-buttons-to-get-good-safety-scores-in-europe/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-ba...
- alberth 2y agoYears ago I had a Saab. Everything was a button/knob. Probably the best car instrument panel I've ever used/seen. https://i0.wp.com/saabblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Saab_9-3_2.jpg?w=1280&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/saabblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sa...
- lb1lf 2y agoAnd night mode! A killer feature I’ve missed on any car I’ve driven since. (Quite simple - kills all instrument lights except speedo. If something happens which requires your attention, the relevant instrument comes back to life. Makes driving in the dark much less exhausting)
- alberth 2y agoI totally forgot about that, yes - was amazing! IIRC, the instrument panel was design by Saab aerospace division.
- swamp_donkey 2y agoMy recollection is it also dimmed the areas of the Speedo that were far from the current speed
- jonahhorowitz 2y agoYes! Night mode was great on long road trips. I've honestly thought of buying a gently used late-00s Saab instead of anything new.
- Jeff2Serve 2y agoThat is exactly what I did last year. Bought a low mileage 2003 9-5. Treated the whole process like owning a commercial aircraft where replaced as part as possible to start fresh. Easier in this day and age, with internet helping on guidance and parts. I am not a car guy overall, though average auto design, external and internal, low-priced or expensive, is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Saab was about only thing that was calming for me.
- 2y ago
- pjmlp 2y agoFinally! At least in Europe most Ford models also have kept most of their physical buttons.
- throw7 2y agoI also don't want huge monitors. Hopefully the return of buttons and dials reduces those console monstrosities.
- whoitwas 2y agoThank fuck. A company actually responds to demand instead of forcing the most profitable solution onto consumers. It's how markets can work if we let them.
- nsbk 2y agoNice! I drive a 2005 Audi with all physical controls. I intend to keep it for as long as it keeps running, so if the trend continues and more manufacturers join it I may be able to skip the whole huge touchscreen madness altogether
- interloxia 2y agoI like the touch sensitive controls on my ID4. It's a bit better than some of the "real" buttons on the steering wheel on some of their older cars which were terrible to use. I get the hate but I find it a bit one sided. That said. It would have been nice if they had made the plastic a bit more premium. The cheap shiny chreaking plastic isn't great. The redeeming feature is the swipe feature for me. Good buttons will be better. Cheap plastic crap will review well but won't necessarily be any better to use for me, at least for the steering column buttons.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- larusso 2y agoBack in 2021 this was the major reason to not go for a VW but a Skoda. The ID.4 has these ugly touch buttons on the steering wheel and even for the window controls. Skoda uses the same tech but combined with oldschool buttons. They have kept the skoda like third column stock for the cruise control. Still not perfect mind you. Modern cars have so many settings and knobs and features. Don‘t get me started on EU regulations that have to be implemented but are guarded by model year. Example: I can permanently turn off the warning sound in case I‘m driving over the speed limit in my car. Newer cars are required to reset everytime the car starts. Same for settings like driving modes. But that all depends on the model year. Since its software they could roll this out to older models. It makes it a weird experience when driving a newer model which suddenly doesn‘t remember its settings ;)
- genewitch 2y agoHow does your car know what the speed limit is?
- eimrine 2y agoProprietary software? "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".
- trinix912 2y agoIt probably reads the signs. My 2020 Civic has it too, but it almost never works properly because of the way speed limits are signaled here. Intersections here cancel the speed limit signs that are before them, but the car expects to see an extra crossed-out sign so it still shows the wrong limit on the dash. Thankfully, it doesn't beep or warn about it.
- genewitch 2y agoI don't think i understand this: > Intersections here cancel the speed limit signs that are before them does this mean that the flow of traffic is constantly slowing down as it approaches intersections, even if the light is "green"?
- sorenjan 2y agoI think people here should look up a video of Xiaomi SU7 (for instance Doug DeMuro's [0]) They have a big touch screen, but they also have an option of attaching a row of physical buttons underneath, for those who want it. It seems like an overall very good car for a reasonable price, and really shows quite well how overvalued Tesla is. Xiaomi announced that they would start making cars in 2021, in 2024 they sold 135 000 SU7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX3rRntdyYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX3rRntdyYc
- karmakaze 2y agoThe physical buttons are so flat and edgeless (except for the raised 3-across row), it's like their listening but not understanding. 'Apple' aesthetic is the worst thing to have happened to industrial design.
- instagib 2y agoNext get rid of glass roofs or option them out.
- CamperBob2 2y agoHow about no? Does no work? Fine, it's settled, no it is.
- lowlevel 2y agoI had one blow up on me on the highway... but I can't really give it up...
- instagib 2y agoEnough bad experiences here too. The heat that comes through in a desert is far too much.
- mobilene 2y agoI own a 2024 VW Jetta GLI. The haptic steering-wheel "buttons" are sloppy and uncertain. I applaud the return to real buttons. At least my GLI has a physical volume knob and physical heater controls.
- hinkley 2y agoThe main thing that kept me from getting an Ioniq was the stupid display and no buttons. If it had been cheaper I would have gotten it anyway, but the pundits guessed the sticker price about 10% low and I was not going to bother paying more than I had anticipated and deal with UX rage every time I drove my vehicle. For some of us a car ride is how we zen out. If you make them anti-zen you will lose customer goodwill. I’m still a little mad at VW for dieselgate but real buttons puts them back on the list.
- philjohn 2y agoI've got an EV6 and most functions have physical controls, which was a key driver in getting it. Climate control (albeit shared between media with a button to switch between the two), heated seats, heated steering wheel, various buttons on the steering wheel. Heck, add in Carplay with Siri and I rarely, if ever, have to touch the screen on a drive.
- gilbetron 2y agoHmm - I bought my Ioniq because of the physical controls. A handful of features are still on the screen, but the 2025 version apparently fixed a bit of that (seat warmers/coolers for instance). Tons of buttons all over the place (especially on the steering wheel).
- hinkley 2y agoSounds like they listened to the negative reviews of the 2024 model. Good to know.
- gilbetron 2y agoTo be clear, I have the 2024 model, and it has tons of physical controls, just the 2025 added a handful more.
- mikestew 2y agoWith two exceptions, those buttons not on the steering wheel are capacitive, which is another word for “tiny touchscreen”. I still have to take my eyes off the road to adjust climate or seat warmers. But at least I can tune radio by feel, the radio that I never listen to.
- lowlevel 2y agoI figued this was coming when I paid more for the outgoing 2020 GTI instead of the 2021.. but I didn't think it would take 5 years. Nice to see them acknowledge that they made a mistake.
- 486sx33 2y agoPlease bring back diesel to North America !
- yalok 2y agoI wonder how many people have literally been injured or died due to this pursuit for better "design". And it applies not only to touch screen (which is a total madness), but to real buttons as well - those buttons need not only to be physical, but have different form/some tactile differentiation. What's happening with touch screens is total mess due to car designers trying to circumvent regulations (e.g., can't have that screen in front of a driver, or projected over the windshield) - so they are forced to move it to a side, which makes operating it while driving more dangerous. But even button's design is falling prey of it, with buttons hidden way below the top of the dashboard, made of the same size, etc. It takes forever to scan & find the right button (e.g. internal air) while driving. And I don't see it as just some recent trend (although there's much more of it). Even 10-12 years ago, this way already a problem. One example of stupidity: Toyota Sienna 2013 has brightness control for its media screen (which also shows back up camera) via a touch screen button. Turning brightness at night works ok - but then turning it back on during day light is impossible - nothing is visible on that dimmed screen!! Latest Toyota Sienna has all of the climate control buttons (8?) in 1 row, very low, of the same size, barely visible signs on them - recipe for disaster... I wish these designers and execs would have their kids life depend on it - I wonder if that'd change their thinking...
- fibonachos 2y agoMy wife’s 2015 Honda has a similar setup for the climate controls. One morning the windshield fogged up after a few minutes of driving when the cabin was warming up on a cold day. Not being my daily driver, I had to look low on the dash to find the defogger button, while driving in the rain. Nothing bad happened, but I remember feeling a little helpless in the moment. That nothing went wrong was really just pure luck.
- baskinator 2y agoIt's a great move. I'd love for the backup cam to be integrated with the mirror as a standard feature. It's available aftermarket. Then a screen isn't really needed at all. It's just one more expensive thing that can break. It would be nice to be able to swap it out with a sub $200 head unit like the good old days. Car audio was my intro to DC electronic systems in the 90's and I learned a ton from it.
- 725686 2y agoI wish there was regulation for limiting what can go in the screen. Only the "new" stuff should go there. The rest, as it has always been, with easily accesible knobs and buttons. Even new stuff should be handled with voice commands. No screen fiddling.
- rkagerer 2y agoI would like to point to this comment I made 7 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15658982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15658982
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoAnd yet even today here in this thread there are people who are like “oh, but i never have to change the temperature in my car, I just set it up once and it just works™” Reminds me of the guy who used to work with me. He would get on and on about how people don’t need cars because he can manage on a bicycle everywhere. Everywhere being a gym, work and a university. His whole world was about 10km².
- ggm 2y agoCan and should be regulated.
- mmmpetrichor 2y agoI want an EV and the major thing I'm going to look for is a high number of physical buttons. I have a 2008 GTI and it has a wonderful physical interface. I'm not trading it in for a giant touchscreen I have to navigate while I'm driving. I can't even believe that is what has happened to a lot of cars.
- WuxiFingerHold 2y agoGood move from Volkswagen. But Mazda gets my credit for being the first to reverse this trend. Hopefully others will follow. We now need stricter regulations to what extend car makers can embrace the "Software Defined Vehicle" vision without compromising safety. It must be ensured that the driver isn't playing with the touch screen during drive (in non autonomous driving mode) for longer than few seconds.
- kindeyoowee 2y ago[dead]
- ipcress_file 2y agoPeak UI design in cars hit around the 1980s. All that's needed are a small number of physical controls: headlights, turn signals, wipers, heat/AC, etc. Anything more than that should work with voice command -- or it doesn't belong in a car.
- petre 2y agoI had an Audi A3 2013. Arguably it had the best physical controls. VW group also did not reinvent the UI with every new model, they prefer to boringly replicate it and have the same location for controls over their different brands. This all canged in their EVs which now have touch screens.
- Yhippa 2y agoI really liked the rotary knob control in my Mazda 6. It sounds like it is very similar to BMW's iDrive. You still had a touchscreen with menus but you could use either one very effectively. I think the key for either more physical buttons or virtual control like that is to allow the user to make these changes by feel without having to look away from where you are driving.
- modriano 2y agoHow did it take this long. I was a regular reader of Car and Driver magazine from 2002 to 2006 when I was in high school (in a Detroit suburb) and I remember them absolutely dragging the BMW iDrive system that eliminated a ton of physical controls and took the driver's attention off the road. I've kept my 2010 car largely to avoid getting a system without knobs and buttons that I can learn and use without looking. I don't know how any auto designer could both regularly drive a car and not immediately reject the idea of eliminating physical controls for wipers/lights/temp control/sound system.
- jonathanlydall 2y agoIt’s not just having physical buttons that matters, they must also not have other poor design decisions. Our secondary, very short trip car, is an old 2008 VW Polo and although it has physical AC and recycle air buttons, they chose to make them be toggle buttons as opposed to ones you can feel/see are pressed in or not. They have a backlight to indicate their “on” status but (and maybe it’s worse because it’s old) you can’t see the backlight in bright sunlight and I have to shadow them with my hand to see. The final annoyance with this is if I turn off the car with the fan speed turned to “off”, when I next start the car it has forgotten the on/off state of each of the two buttons. So these buttons, although being physical, are almost as bad as soft touch buttons. If they had just made them buttons which are either pressed in or out, all these annoyances wouldn’t exist. Obviously the Polos would have changed completely now, but I haven’t checked VWs much though as in South Africa you get considerably less car for your money compared to most other brands, but VWs still seem pretty popular for what I can only guess is status symbol reasons.
- usrusr 2y agoState at bootup is a legitimate trade-off decision though: some states you want to survive a power cycle, others you want to reset, and still others you'd want to have a user-configurable default state. Momentary + indicator makes all of that easy, whereas a mechanical off state with powered reset on bootup (or on shutdown) would be a pretty wild "no expense spared" approach. Momentary + indicator vs mechanical toggle really is more than just penny pinching, it's more like not burning wads of banknotes. And it gets even more clear when you enter the present days and add additional inputs like voice control or defaults associated with a personal keyfob.
- psd1 2y agoOr you could just turn the button off manually. This is manufacturers inventing a meaningless distinction. The value of controls that perfectly implement your wishes is not great over controls that you just fucken set, even without the terrible ergonomics that the former brings.
- WalterBright 2y agoI'm convinced that most electronic devices I buy have user interfaces that nobody even tried before shipping them.
- WalterBright 2y agoI learned to drive on a stickshift that I put together myself (with a bit of help from my buddies). As a result, I knew how everything worked, and drove it for many years. The car was totaled on the freeway, so I bought a new Pontiac Firebird stick. One day, I stepped on the clutch, turned the key to start it, and nothing happened. Oh crud. I tried all kinds of things, it was totally dead. Suddenly, the engine did turn over and run. It turns out, there was a switch behind the pedal, and you had to press the pedal all the way to the floor to trip the switch which enabled the starter circuit. Some things were just too clever for me!
- psd1 2y agoYou were flooring it on start? Jesus of piston rings, forgive them, for they know not what wear they put on their bearing surfaces
- jillesvangurp 2y agoThe clutch pedal, not the gas pedal. You are supposed to also use the brakes. So, it's a two feet operation. Two feet, three pedals. Bad things happen if you mess with the clutch and the gas pedal at the same time. Automatic gears are a great thing. I live in Europe so I learned to drive using manual gears. I find driving automatic gears is less stressful and easier. I kind of prefer it. Anyway, electric cars have no need for gears / clutches. And they have regenerative braking. One pedal operation is pretty nice.
- WalterBright 2y ago> Bad things happen if you mess with the clutch and the gas pedal at the same time. Need to do it, though, when downshifting and double-clutching to set up for a hard turn!
- Brian_K_White 2y agoNo. The clutch pedal. With a manual transmission it is possible to start the engine without the starter if the car is moving. You press the clutch, put the transmission into whatever gear makes sense for the speed, release the clutch briefly. You can do it from a dead stop by pushing the car if you're on a level surface, on a hill, or at highway speed. Most cars for decades now have had some form of disabling the starter unless the clutch is pressed, and pressed all the way. That does make sense in the normal case when the car is not moving. If the car is parked, you usually do not want the starter to make the car move. If the clutch is not pressed all the way, then the car might move when the starter turns over the engine. That car apparently also disabled the ignition, or maybe they were trying to use the starter instead of pop starting. Can't tell which from what they said. You could do it either way in that situation where the car is already moving at higway speed. "Don't allow starter without clutch" isn't always right though, just usually. It can be useful to intentionally use the starter to move the car. My 97 4runner has a factory button on the dash specifically to allow the starter to run without pressing the clutch one time. (it resets for each turn of the key) Instead of disabling the spark, in this vehicle they disable the starter if the clutch isn't pressed. Turn the key all the way and the starter just doesn't go. The option to override that is intended for getting the vehicle unstuck from mud by using the starter motor to craw very slow in low gear, slower than the engine can go. But I only ever use it to start in neutral without getting into and back out of the car, usually to warm it up in winter but sometimes while working on it or wanting the engine for electricity temporarily while camping or working or something.
- nxpnsv 2y agoTouch screens & feature subscriptions are things that just don't belong in cars.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nmstoker 2y agoWonderful news. I get the value of touch screens for appropriate cases but it's excellent to see common sense return. Countering the hidden/inaccessible nature of touch screen buttons is the obvious point but also the return to physical buttons stops engineers from randomly moving controls with each new software update - that's what ruins things with much regular desktop software: you learn something, the layout is committed to memory and then three months later the feature is moved! It's then massively harder to find - you almost never find yourself thinking "ah thank you for moving that, now it's better!"
- ksec 2y ago>Brand's design chief commits to "never" repeating the "mistake" of relegating essential controls to touchscreens I could accept that to never repeat the "mistake" as an apology from VW. But what about those who were supportive of it? We could go back to HN / Twitter history and read more than half of comments at the time thinks physical buttons are old and dump, Tesla has the future done right. That was in the mid 2010s. Every single time those loud and hype constantly and consistently have it wrong. And every single time, like a PR machine they would go and hype the next wrong thing. But no one would hold them accountable. And the cycle repeats. Because of that we have suffer from absolute crap over the past 10 years from Car manufacturers. We are lucky a few Japanese Cars manufacture hasn't caught the hype and stood ground. Thank You Mazda.
- darthrupert 2y agoIf what you are saying wpuld be true, Tesla drivers who also have another car wouldn't have 50% lower chance of getting into an accident in their Teslas. https://electrek.co/2022/05/27/tesla-owners-less-likely-crash-than-their-other-cars/ https://electrek.co/2022/05/27/tesla-owners-less-likely-cras... So we can conclude you are saying is not true at least as absolutely as you claim. Touch screen interfaces are not fundamentally less safe.
- TylerE 2y agoBecause of course there aren't any other features of a Tesla that could possibly effect the accident rate.
- darthrupert 2y agoThis supports my point: even if the interface would be unsafe (which there is no reason to believe), the effect would be negligible.
- BoingBoomTschak 2y agoThis. laughs in Mazda
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 2y agoWhat should be considered “vital functions”? Last time I drove an VW car, it had buttons for almost everything, including most infotainment functions, right on the steering wheel and column. Cruise control, lane keeping, all sorts of alert options and so on, all easily accessible. Do we consider things like air conditioning, heated seats and so on something the driver absolutely needs to change while they drive?
- stainablesteel 2y agothank god, having one screen is just one way to break every control you needed
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- chadconway 2y agoDigital controls make sense once vehicles are fully autonomous, but until then, physical controls are essential!