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The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? A
by mjevans 2y ago
The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Arguments can be made for more controlled spaces but...)
Have a website and want the chance for kids to see it? Advertise in the headers that it's moderated and intended to be a given rating. Various indexers can pick that up. Complaints can be forward to relevant government agencies (E.G. for a US based website the FTC, false advertising), or as usual other agencies for harder crimes.
Parents can mark computer accounts as Child accounts and Browsers configured to follow a set of list filtering rules selected by the parent or current guardian (E.G. schools).
So again. Internet == Unrated Free Zone -- Child Mode == Allow List filtered content.
- paulvnickerson 2y agowe arrest people who have sex in public...
- mjevans 2y agoOnly the ones who make a display of it (get seen by others). We don't randomly go around asking Papers Please! to everyone on the street.
- ndriscoll 2y agoWe do require ID to enter e.g. porn stores and bars though, or to make age restricted purchases. I also recall walking a few miles to e.g. the mall, target, walmart, etc. without any adults when I was around 10. I'm not sure I'd characterize public spaces as adult oriented by default.
- choo-t 2y ago> We do require ID to enter e.g. porn stores and bars though Only if you look too young (and for the bars it's only for certain beverages), so the affected population is only a small parts of the customers.
- ysofunny 2y ago...not yet... (and I hope, not ever)
- inetknght 2y agoMaybe we shouldn't.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago> we arrest people who have sex in public... Live sex shows are illegal in most places in the US regardless of whether the audience is exclusively adults, so the motivation for these laws is apparently something other than preventing children from seeing them.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mschuster91 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? At age 8 I was wandering in Munich unattended. But okay, gotta admit, this is Germany we're talking about, so not many issues with hordes of mentally ill and/or homeless people doing anything from drugs to defecating on the sidewalk right next to big tech's offices [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/18/san-francisco-poop-problem-inequality-homelessness https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/18/san-fr...
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoIf your politicians back then had wanted to cultivate your fear badly enough, they'd easily have been able to find anecdotes or instances to scare you with.
- Juliate 2y agoNot _everything_ is in the hands of politicians. Communities, medias have a significant role too, where they can shame politicians trying stupid takes to shape the reality to their wishes.
- Braxton1980 2y ago>homeless people doing anything from drugs to defecating on the sidewalk right next to big tech's offices And this harms people how?
- qball 2y agoLittering degrades the commons.
- Braxton1980 2y agoIn rural areas animals shit all over farms and areas where people exist and commingle
- 2y ago
- kennysoona 2y ago> The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. As much as I kind of agree, I want to fight so much for open access to the internet because it was so useful to me as a child, thirsty for information and starving for nourishment. I will say I think these laws are bonkers. Restrict what companies can do with child data, make it clear an account is a minors, that should be more than sufficient.
- haswell 2y ago> I want to fight so much for open access to the internet because it was so useful to me as a child As a child of the 80s who benefited greatly from the Internet as a kid (repressive religious parents, and the Internet was a lifeline), I feel extremely conflicted. On the one hand, I absolutely want to preserve the kind of benefit we received growing up. On the other, the Internet looks nothing like it did when I was a kid.
- AnthonyMouse 2y agoThe dangers of the modern internet aren't boobs though. The 20th century internet had boobs. The modern dangers are state-funded and international they're not going to be thwarted by an age-verification law, are they?
- haswell 2y ago> The 20th century internet had boobs Porn on the Internet today isn’t like it was either.
- AnthonyMouse 2y agoThere is more of it now, certainly. Is it worse than goatse?
- eszed 2y agoGoatse was shock, not porn. Kid sees that, gets mildly traumatized and figures it out later and laughs about it when they're an adult. I'm far more worried about them internalizing mysogyny from mainstream porn; that shit sinks deep.
- whatshisface 2y agoHere's a list of things that I wouldn't want the police to do, but should be done: - Kids should be in bed by 8. - They shouldn't light fires in the back yard. - They shouldn't run with knives. If someone tried to use my support for those things as a basis for 24/7 surveillance of bedrooms, back yards and knife drawers, they'd be insane.
- isaacremuant 2y agoShould be done? Lol. Talking about culture ethnocentrism taking to the extreme. No one forces you not to take your kid to bed at 8, or you for that matter. Stay out of my life. The anglosphere is so full of authoritarian people wanting to get into people's lives and even when arguing against surveillance you think there's an agreeable common goal we should all strive to. No. We don't.
- cosmicgadget 2y ago99% sure his point was exactly what you said. "Should be done" vs "should be enforced" by the person you demand stay out of your life.
- isaacremuant 2y agoNo. Another one who doesn't get it. It shouldn't be done. The problem is that you don't get it. You think that saying "we all agree on X but it's bad for society" gets you to eventually acknowledge there's a safer way to do X, at least partially. I'm saying you shouldn't even pretend the first statement is acceptable and that implementation is the problem . Now, that's very nuanced for some and I'll get the "you're missing the point, he doesn't want surveillance". No, you're missing it.
- BlackFly 2y agoThe point you are missing is that he presented what he knew to be norms and used language to indicate that they are norms (should vs must) and you are somehow confused into thinking that he presented them as inalienable facts. Commenters thought that if they pointed out the nuance of normative assertion vs enforcement you would see the distinction but you continue to fail to distinguish a normative assertion from a factual one. I also disagree with you that widespread agreement on norms is some problematic slippery slope. Failure to distinguish between norms and objectivity as you are doing is what leads to widespread norms being enforced absurdly by a tyranny of the majority.
- qball 2y ago>Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. This is the attitude that led us to this problem in the first place. >Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? They're at much higher risk of being arrested/abducted by the police than they are anything else. This is a uniquely North American neurosis; this happens every day in every other nation. They take the subway to work/school or walk, like everyone else.
- ty6853 2y agoThe Karens seem to perish in the backcountry. I have seen multiple elementary age children operating dirt bikes and heavy construction equipment on desert dirt roads.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- soulofmischief 2y agoI used to take the ATV out as often as I could as a kid, riding for miles over some rather treacherous roads with 200ft drops on either side and no barriers. Times sure have changed.
- repeekad 2y agoYou really think a child is more likely to be abducted by police in NYC than anything else? What are you talking about?
- ty6853 2y agoYes do you have children? I had the police called on me for taking my kid to the park last time i took a vacation out east to a big city. My kid is not the same 'race' as me ergo Karen called and they detained my child for an hour because that was suspicious (I filed FOIA and got bodycam and overheard the witch's complaint on the radio). Now imagine there was no parent at all...
- AngryData 2y ago
- Braxton1980 2y agoWhy NYC and what harm are you referring to? General crime like murder?
- cameldrv 2y agoPublic spaces are most definitely not "Adults Only" by default. You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it, you have to show ID to get into a bar, you have to show ID to buy a pack of cigarettes, and in many states the cigarettes have to be in an opaque cabinet. You can't walk around naked. You can't be drunk in public. Now admittedly many of these things are unevenly enforced, but society absolutely does a lot in the physical world to make it appropriate for children.
- ty6853 2y agoThe children didn't seem worse off in the days where a 2nd grader could bike 5 miles to the grocery store to buy mom a pack of smokes and dad a six pack.
- ndriscoll 2y agohttps://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco... > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 73% among adults, from 42.6% in 1965 to 11.6% in 2022. > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 86% among youth, from 36.4% in 1997 to 3.8% in 2021. I'd say that's better off, not just in childhood but with long term effects.
- butlike 2y agoAttended or unattended, you still hear people cussin' and ranting and raving on the NYC subway lines.
- lolinder 2y ago> The Internet should be Unrated and thus Adults Only by default. Just like public spaces. This is exactly the opposite of the way public spaces actually work, and the way that public spaces actually work is the very justification for laws like this in the first place! You've just taken their exact rationale and imagined a world that would lead that metaphor to the opposite conclusion. In most of the real-life US, you can't put porn on a billboard, you can't sell it in a supermarket, and you can't wear it on a shirt. You can't go out naked in public, and you can't engage in public sexual activity. If you do want to buy porn or go into a strip club, you have to show ID and go into a distinctly-not-public space behind closed doors, often without street-facing windows lest people in the public space be able to see inside. The fact that this is how public spaces work is why these laws are written the way that they are—by analogy to real public spaces vs real adults-only spaces.
- linuxhansl 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Yes as long as they know to observe traffic and know how to use the subway. Almost all child adductions are parental kidnappings. This "will nobody think of the children..." neurosis is just that, a neurosis.
- LorenPechtel 2y agoOr runaways. I do agree with the basic concept, though--kids being snatched by strangers is very rare.
- riffic 2y agoIt used to be quite normal for children to wander cities unattended.
- monksy 2y agoThat's kind of how it has been working before all of these "child safety" laws have come into place. Pornhub admits that they spend quite a bit of money trying to educate people on how to filter. https://www.404media.co/the-pornhub-empire-cbc-podcast/ https://www.404media.co/the-pornhub-empire-cbc-podcast/
- agnishom 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? I would hope that the answer is yes. This kind of reasoning (not to pick on the commenter above) is troubling. People blame cellphones and social media. But what are they going to do once they put down their cellphones, if not go out? Should they stare at the walls? Interacting with strangers is a valuable experience. If we do not encourage children to interact with strangers, should we be surprised when they do not want to participate in civic activities as an adult?
- amrocha 2y ago>Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? I know you meant this as a rhetorical question but honestly, the answer should be yes. And if the city is too dangerous for kids to live in it now, then fix that. Likewise for the internet. Kids are going to use it, we should make sure it’s designed around that. That doesn’t mean we need surveillance like this though.
- __turbobrew__ 2y agoUsually I don’t see people beheaded in NYC but that definitely exists online. I grew up on the uncensored internet, and it was fine, but I would not conflate the internet with a public space. From my experience the actions and content of the internet are very different from the real world.
- Aeolun 2y agoI mean, it might be easier to find on the internet, but if you are dedicated enough I’m sure you can find it in NYC too.
- ryototsu 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended No, but that just means NYC is a crappy place. I regularly see 8yr olds wandering Tokyo alone.
- CalRobert 2y agoYou just described why American cities are horrible.
- drdec 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Many people do, in fact, do this: https://reason.com/2021/06/11/free-range-kids-second-edition-childhood-independence/ https://reason.com/2021/06/11/free-range-kids-second-edition...
- eru 2y ago> (Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? Arguments can be made for more controlled spaces but...) Sure, why shouldn't 8 year olds wander a city unattended, and eg use public transport? I cycled to school way younger than that. And so did many people in the past.
- graemep 2y agoI would allow an eight year old to go around most areas of most British cities. When I was a child lots of kids that age came to my school in London by train unaccompanied. Kids that ago go to school unaccompanied in the town i now live in. I let my kids go to some places by themselves not much older, and do quite long journeys from their early teens.
- scarface_74 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended You might be surprised, but back in the day before overprotective parents, “free range kids” were a thing. I was riding my bike all over the city (albeit not New York) with friends and just told to be home by 8:00 with no cell phones. I was 10-11 years old. Even in Atlanta where my wife grew up she was riding the public bus at 12 with her younger brother going to the mall.
- jmholla 2y agoEverybody keeps keying in on NYC. I thinks better analogy is would you let your kid travel the world at their whims without you. Because that is the Internet. It is inherently international.
- Gollapalli 2y agoPublic spaces should NOT be unrated. This is a disgusting worldview. The fact that an 8-year-old can NOT walk NYC unattended is a disgrace. This is what civilized countries actually look like: https://youtu.be/IkVvXVDs5aI https://youtu.be/IkVvXVDs5aI That American children cannot reasonably do the same any longer is a FAILURE of the public trust.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y agoThe web, i.e., websites, is only one example of how "the internet" can be used. "The internet" is "Adults Only", assuming internet subscribers are persons with bank accounts and credit cards to pay internet access fees, i.e., adults. Web != internet.
- commandersaki 2y ago> Would you allow an 8 year old to wander New York City unattended? This is common in Japan.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Nickolya 2y agoThis perspective aligns with the ongoing debate about balancing open access to information with the need to protect younger audiences from inappropriate content. Implementing such a model would require robust tools to manage and filter content effectively. In this context, services like NodeMaven can play a pivotal role by offering advanced proxy solutions that allow users to customize their internet experience, ensuring that content is both accessible and appropriate based on individual or organizational preferences. I can send you the link, it helped me a lot while writing my thesis https://nodemaven.com/ https://nodemaven.com/.