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There's nothing close, Apple has better talent and the vertical integration gives them an edge (especially on performance per watt on their chip designs). Sinc

There's nothing close, Apple has better talent and the vertical integration gives them an edge (especially on performance per watt on their chip designs). Since the M series chips, there's been no other option if you care about quality. There are crappy alternatives with serious tradeoffs if for some reason you are forced to not use Apple or choose for non-quality reasons.

ninetyninenine 2y ago
No vertical integration is what did intel in because they both do fab and design. TSMC won because they aren't vertically integrated into anything. Apple is better because of actual superior technology. The chips are custom made and no one can match the technology yet.
- homefree 2y ago
  They have superior technology because they control the full stack and have taken more and more ownership of it over the years (most recently building their own modem in the iPhone 16e). They could design chips for an exact set of constraints (originally iPhones) and then expand that to the mac. Intel with x86 had to support legacy and tons of different devices (and bad leadership caused them to ignore efficiency and later ignore gpus). Other laptop manufacturers have to run other people's software and few really make their own underlying hardware to the extent apple does.
  - ninetyninenine 2y ago
    No they don't all their technology is equivalent to what's in the industry save their chips. Which btw is manufactured by TSMC so the chip itself is not vertically integrated.
    - homefree 2y ago
      My argument is they were able to develop the chip because of their control. The constraints allowed them that freedom and the constraints come from the top down integration and control. I'll bow out here because I can just tell this won't be a worthwhile thread.
      - ninetyninenine 2y ago
        But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from.
        alwillis 2y ago
        > But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from. Back when Apple used Intel processors, they were at the mercy of Intel's roadmap; if Intel missed a deadline for a new chip, Apple had to change plans. Obviously, that's no longer the case. Back in the Motorola/IBM days, their G5 processor ran so hot that Apple had to create a special case with 7 fans to cool it. It was an amazing engineering feat, but something Apple would never do unless they had no choice. I've used a Power Mac G5—it sounded like a jet taking off, and the fans stayed on. [2] They get to integrate new technologies quicker than being constrained by the industry. Apple launched the first 64-bit smartphone, the iPhone 5s, in 2013—at least a year before any Android manufacturer could. And when Qualcomm finally shipped a 64-bit processor, no version of Android supported it. [1] There are dozens of examples where Apple's vertical integration has allowed them to stay a step ahead of competitors. The latest is the C1 modem that shipped in the iPhone 16e. Because the C1 is much more efficient than Qualcomm's modem, the 16e gets better battery life than the more expensive iPhone 16 with Qualcomm's modem. [3] And because Qualcomm's licensing fees are a percentage of the cost of the device it's in, shipping the C1 enables them to put modems in laptops. The Qualcomm fee is significant: an iPad Air starts at $599; the same iPad Air model with one of Qualcomm's modems costs $749. Customers have wanted MacBooks with cellular modems forever; now they'll be able to do that, since the modem will become part of Apple's SoC in the near future. That's what you can do when you're not constrained by off-the-shelf components. [1]: "First 64-bit Android phone has no 64-bit software"—https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/first-64-bit-android-phone-has-no-64-bit-software/#:~:text=When%20Apple%20launched%20the%20iPhone,hardware%20and%20updates%20the%20OS. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/first-64-bit-android... [2]: https://thehouseofmoth.com/a-little-known-fact-about-the-power-mac-g5-and-what-to-do-with-this-information/ https://thehouseofmoth.com/a-little-known-fact-about-the-pow... [3]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/02/27/apples-c1-modem-breaks-no-records-for-speed-but-is-exceptionally-power-efficient https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/02/27/apples-c1-modem-b...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - philwelch 2y ago
      You’re treating vertical integration as if it’s this absolute thing. Apple is clearly more vertically integrated than any other laptop brand by virtue of designing everything from the CPU to the OS. That remains true even though Apple doesn’t run their own chip fabs or mine their own bauxite.
  - specialist 2y ago
    > (originally iPhones) and then expand that to the mac Yes and: (as you know) Aggregate volume also benefits Apple's whole product suite. It's hard for a laptop mfg to justify pushing to next node process for just ~25m units. So competitors have to wait for Qualcomm, Samsung, whomever to transition. It's easier for Apple with ~250m phones, ~50m tablets, ~25m laptops, etc. per year. (Apple's war chest also enables monosopoly of upcoming node processes.) Imagine trying to pull off AirPods or Vision without that deep vertical integration. The ridiculously ambitious Vision is just barely feasible, riding on mobile's coattails. A Vision using 3rd party CPUs would be delayed. -- This all is in addition to the Apple specific optimizations, which you mention.
- throwup238 2y ago
  Apple is better because they’re not competing on price which is why they can afford to bring so many things in house. That’s how they can afford the talent and other R&D resources. We get what we pay for.
  - indemnity 2y ago
    $899 (edu) or $999 is extremely competitive for what you get. Most people buying an entry level computer these days should at least consider stretching to get a MBA than the $300-400 shovelware, they’ll get so much use out of it. My wife is still using her 2020 M1 Air and it’s still as snappy as the day we got it, still works for all her use cases. Incredible value.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      That’s a great point, but I think that’s the result of decades of work enabled by premium pricing culminating in their custom silicon (which is itself a product of their ability to command exclusivity with TSMC nodes). The shareholders demand ever constant growth and Apple is moving down market just like everyone else (looking at you, BMW 3 series).
    - motorest 2y ago
      > Most people buying an entry level computer these days should at least consider stretching to get a MBA than the $300-400 shovelware, they’ll get so much use out of it. I don't think that expecting everyone to waste 3x the money to scratch the same itch is an informed take, specially when the $300 shovelware has far better specs in terms of RAM and by far HD. Nowadays you can even get better performing miniPCs for half the price than your MacBook Air M3, such as any of the systems packing a AMD Ryzen 7 8845HS. I think some people look at the shiny computers and don't look past that.
      - chipotle_coyote 2y ago
        And comparing a miniPC to a laptop is an informed take?
      - 2y ago
- sharken 2y ago
  Apple is very dependent on using the latest process node from TSMC though. For that reason and the fact that the US cannot match what TSMC does, it all points to Taiwan dictating what kind of aid the US must provide. I don't see the current US leadership wanting to put that in jeopardy.
  - ninetyninenine 2y ago
    More like the US is dictating the aid. Tsmc is opening a fundamentally unprofitable fab in Arizona.
buildfocus 2y ago
Is the performance gap so huge? Power efficiency yes, absolutely, but for peak performance last I saw the last AMD vs M3 benchmarks were a slightly slower single core, and a little faster in multicore. Doesn't seem as world changing as described.
- guhidalg 2y ago
  Yes. No other laptop can sustain peak performance as long as the M-series Macs. The only thing that competes is a dedicated desktop with a big cooler and fan. Mac laptops feel faster, even if the synthetic benchmarks say otherwise.
  - margorczynski 2y ago
    You mean plugged in or battery?
    - 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
      You’ll get regular performance on battery. I’ve gone entire work days with my Pro on battery because I didn’t notice I hadn’t plugged it in. All my docker containers, IDE etc plugged into my external monitor. It was a good 9hrs before I noticed. Macs are easy to beat depending on what trade offs you want to make though.
  - ddingus 2y ago
    I think this has a whole lot to do with the memory throughput, as well as great efficiency. My M1 still holds right up! It is the smallest RAM model, and even that is not the end of things.
    - matwood 2y ago
      I bought an M1 Max with 64gb of ram at release. I'm still not sure what will get me to replace it other than it simply breaking. Maybe an M5 will finally make me want to buy something new. I'm debating getting a cheaper Air and maybe a base Ultra now that I do most of my heavy work at a desk.
ericmcer 2y ago
The leap from intel to the M series chips really left everyone else behind. I can't even use my 2019 Macbook anymore it feels so sluggish. I have an M3 Pro and it blows all my old computers out of the water. Can handle pretty insane dev workflows (massive Docker composed environments) without issue and the battery life feels unfair. I can put in an 8 hour workday without my charging cable, I don't think I have turned it fully off in a few months, it just chugs along. It really embodies the "it just works" mindset.
- teaearlgraycold 2y ago
  I can easily take my M3 MBA on trips, using in on the plane both ways and a couple hours there for a few days, and not charge it once. I honestly looked for alternatives when I bought it last summer but there weren’t any competitive options.
  - hypercube33 2y ago
    I mean my AMD T14 G4 gets like 12 hours of battery running windows, 150 browser tabs and a virtual environment. Not sure how the newer ones are and no they aren't as sleek or probably durable as a metal apple or dell XPS but I haven't got any complaints for the price.
    - lillecarl 2y ago
      Yeah everyone that went from "old shitty Intel" to M1 or above somehow gaslit themselves into believing nobody could catch up. AMD did catch up quickly, it's too bad they had to solder RAM to match but it is what it is...
      - poink 2y ago
        I don't think they "gaslit themselves," but I do think M1 was good enough a lot of people stopped thinking about hardware and their frame of reference is horribly out of date
caycep 2y ago
yes, it's apple and oranges. Apple is making a Veblen good. Dell/Lenovo are making lowest-cost/lowest-bid commodities
- homefree 2y ago
  It's not a Veblen good.
  - motorest 2y ago
    > It's not a Veblen good. What do you think it is then?
    - frontfor 2y ago
      This is an incredibly lazy comment. I think you and most people would agree on the immense utility of Apple products. There’s also no evidence that demand increases with price in MacBooks.
      - motorest 2y ago
        > This is an incredibly lazy comment. It isn't, and it's amusing how people get riled with a simple request to justify why dismissed someone else's opinion without presenting a single argument. > I think you and most people would agree on the immense utility of Apple products. They are consumer electronics, and laptop manufacturers are a dime a dozen. Why do you believe they are special in that regard? I mean, until recently they even shipped with a below-standard amount of RAM. > There’s also no evidence that demand increases with price in MacBooks. That's the definition of a Veblen good, something that is not known for being useful beyond serving as a status symbol.
        brulard 2y ago
        > That's the definition of a Veblen good, something that is not known for being useful beyond serving as a status symbol. I don't think you understood the Veblen good definition. And MacBooks do not fit the definition. The parent comment explained it well.
2c2c2c 2y ago
I thought this too but I think the amd mobile series chips have mostly caught up
tester756 2y ago
What about Lunar Lake?
- twilo 2y ago
  Solid, but still I can't find it in a laptop with passive cooling like the macbook air line here, which is a huge plus in a laptop imo
rconti 2y ago
But it seems the parent's point is there's no reason Dell couldn't have kept making improved XPS models. Maybe they don't compare on a $/watt basis with Apple silicon, but you could presumably have still paid less and gotten something pretty decent.
paulddraper 2y ago
M series really is amazing. But if you don’t want Apple, or you want to be able to upgrade, check out Frameworks. [1] Really satisfying combination of quality and value for high performance laptops. [1] https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/
- kombine 2y ago
  Their 16" laptop is extremely bulky. I think this is a category where Macbooks clearly win. Thinkpad and FrameWork have great options for 14", but at larger screen sizes something is always missing for me.
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    To be fair, the 16" MacBook Pro (I have the M1 Max) is also rather bulky. It's to big and to heavy for travel. If you need do a lot of traveling, or just don't work at your desk, I'd recommend against getting a 16" laptop in general.
  - paulddraper 2y ago
    It’s 0.15in thicker.
gargan 2y ago
In my experience the Snapdragon X Elite is about the same as an M2. It's got slightly worse battery life but still a battery that blows the competition out the water. Plus you get the benefits of loading out your laptop with 64GB RAM etc without paying Apples ridiculous prices Snapdragon are just getting started. The Snapdragon X2 is coming out later this year with 18 cores Apple does have some serious competition now
- freehorse 2y ago
  > you get the benefits of loading out your laptop with 64GB RAM etc If RAM is all you need on a M_ air type of machine sure, but the selling/buying point of apple silicon's unified memory is mainly around GPU/memory bandwidth at a low energy consumption level, which is yet to be rivaled (maybe AMD recently took steps towards there). If one's workload optimises for CPU-only and very high RAM, apple silicon was and probably will be the worst choice cost-wise. Also, for me, the no-no reason for snapdragon x elites until now is having to use windows, plus, as it turned out, the early unreliability of the actual products sold by laptop manufacturers. But the market has opened up, so prob we will see more competition towards there, which is great. Apple's good but not doing anything magic that others cannot eventually do to some extent. Though I am far more optimistic for AMD than Qualcomm tbh.
spaceman_2020 2y ago
My pet peeve is the trackpad How on earth are there literally ZERO non Apple laptops with a trackpad as smooth as Apple’s? This is an old technology. Surely someone must have reverse engineered this by now?
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  How on earth are there still no non Apple laptops that instantly and reliably go to sleep when you close the lid?
  - dagw 2y ago
    I suspect the answer to these questions are the same. When different companies are developing the OS, the drivers and the hardware it is much harder to get everything to play together nicely.
    - no_wizard 2y ago
      harder perhaps, but not impossible, and the market has had decades to figure this out. My guess is typical PC manufacturers have not felt it worth the time to invest in getting this aspect right. Ironically, the best non windows trackpad I ever used was when Vizio tried to make computers. They actually got the trackpad right. In fact, those computers were really cut above everyone else, but my guess is they didn't sell well because they were taken off the market almost as fast as they were introduced
  - karn97 2y ago
    [dead]
  - jscheel 2y ago
    Yeah, because apple is totally reliable for sleeping when it is supposed to. I love my macbook, but I have dealt with over a decade of macbooks waking when they should not. Love it when my macbook cooks itself in my bag overnight.
    - 2y ago

ninetyninenine 2y ago

No vertical integration is what did intel in because they both do fab and design. TSMC won because they aren't vertically integrated into anything. Apple is better because of actual superior technology. The chips are custom made and no one can match the technology yet.

homefree 2y ago
They have superior technology because they control the full stack and have taken more and more ownership of it over the years (most recently building their own modem in the iPhone 16e). They could design chips for an exact set of constraints (originally iPhones) and then expand that to the mac. Intel with x86 had to support legacy and tons of different devices (and bad leadership caused them to ignore efficiency and later ignore gpus). Other laptop manufacturers have to run other people's software and few really make their own underlying hardware to the extent apple does.
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  No they don't all their technology is equivalent to what's in the industry save their chips. Which btw is manufactured by TSMC so the chip itself is not vertically integrated.
  - homefree 2y ago
    My argument is they were able to develop the chip because of their control. The constraints allowed them that freedom and the constraints come from the top down integration and control. I'll bow out here because I can just tell this won't be a worthwhile thread.
    - ninetyninenine 2y ago
      But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from.
      - alwillis 2y ago
        > But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from. Back when Apple used Intel processors, they were at the mercy of Intel's roadmap; if Intel missed a deadline for a new chip, Apple had to change plans. Obviously, that's no longer the case. Back in the Motorola/IBM days, their G5 processor ran so hot that Apple had to create a special case with 7 fans to cool it. It was an amazing engineering feat, but something Apple would never do unless they had no choice. I've used a Power Mac G5—it sounded like a jet taking off, and the fans stayed on. [2] They get to integrate new technologies quicker than being constrained by the industry. Apple launched the first 64-bit smartphone, the iPhone 5s, in 2013—at least a year before any Android manufacturer could. And when Qualcomm finally shipped a 64-bit processor, no version of Android supported it. [1] There are dozens of examples where Apple's vertical integration has allowed them to stay a step ahead of competitors. The latest is the C1 modem that shipped in the iPhone 16e. Because the C1 is much more efficient than Qualcomm's modem, the 16e gets better battery life than the more expensive iPhone 16 with Qualcomm's modem. [3] And because Qualcomm's licensing fees are a percentage of the cost of the device it's in, shipping the C1 enables them to put modems in laptops. The Qualcomm fee is significant: an iPad Air starts at $599; the same iPad Air model with one of Qualcomm's modems costs $749. Customers have wanted MacBooks with cellular modems forever; now they'll be able to do that, since the modem will become part of Apple's SoC in the near future. That's what you can do when you're not constrained by off-the-shelf components. [1]: "First 64-bit Android phone has no 64-bit software"—https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/first-64-bit-android-phone-has-no-64-bit-software/#:~:text=When%20Apple%20launched%20the%20iPhone,hardware%20and%20updates%20the%20OS. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/first-64-bit-android... [2]: https://thehouseofmoth.com/a-little-known-fact-about-the-power-mac-g5-and-what-to-do-with-this-information/ https://thehouseofmoth.com/a-little-known-fact-about-the-pow... [3]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/02/27/apples-c1-modem-breaks-no-records-for-speed-but-is-exceptionally-power-efficient https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/02/27/apples-c1-modem-b...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - philwelch 2y ago
    You’re treating vertical integration as if it’s this absolute thing. Apple is clearly more vertically integrated than any other laptop brand by virtue of designing everything from the CPU to the OS. That remains true even though Apple doesn’t run their own chip fabs or mine their own bauxite.
- specialist 2y ago
  > (originally iPhones) and then expand that to the mac Yes and: (as you know) Aggregate volume also benefits Apple's whole product suite. It's hard for a laptop mfg to justify pushing to next node process for just ~25m units. So competitors have to wait for Qualcomm, Samsung, whomever to transition. It's easier for Apple with ~250m phones, ~50m tablets, ~25m laptops, etc. per year. (Apple's war chest also enables monosopoly of upcoming node processes.) Imagine trying to pull off AirPods or Vision without that deep vertical integration. The ridiculously ambitious Vision is just barely feasible, riding on mobile's coattails. A Vision using 3rd party CPUs would be delayed. -- This all is in addition to the Apple specific optimizations, which you mention.
throwup238 2y ago
Apple is better because they’re not competing on price which is why they can afford to bring so many things in house. That’s how they can afford the talent and other R&D resources. We get what we pay for.
- indemnity 2y ago
  $899 (edu) or $999 is extremely competitive for what you get. Most people buying an entry level computer these days should at least consider stretching to get a MBA than the $300-400 shovelware, they’ll get so much use out of it. My wife is still using her 2020 M1 Air and it’s still as snappy as the day we got it, still works for all her use cases. Incredible value.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    That’s a great point, but I think that’s the result of decades of work enabled by premium pricing culminating in their custom silicon (which is itself a product of their ability to command exclusivity with TSMC nodes). The shareholders demand ever constant growth and Apple is moving down market just like everyone else (looking at you, BMW 3 series).
  - motorest 2y ago
    > Most people buying an entry level computer these days should at least consider stretching to get a MBA than the $300-400 shovelware, they’ll get so much use out of it. I don't think that expecting everyone to waste 3x the money to scratch the same itch is an informed take, specially when the $300 shovelware has far better specs in terms of RAM and by far HD. Nowadays you can even get better performing miniPCs for half the price than your MacBook Air M3, such as any of the systems packing a AMD Ryzen 7 8845HS. I think some people look at the shiny computers and don't look past that.
    - chipotle_coyote 2y ago
      And comparing a miniPC to a laptop is an informed take?
    - 2y ago
sharken 2y ago
Apple is very dependent on using the latest process node from TSMC though. For that reason and the fact that the US cannot match what TSMC does, it all points to Taiwan dictating what kind of aid the US must provide. I don't see the current US leadership wanting to put that in jeopardy.
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  More like the US is dictating the aid. Tsmc is opening a fundamentally unprofitable fab in Arizona.

buildfocus 2y ago

Is the performance gap so huge? Power efficiency yes, absolutely, but for peak performance last I saw the last AMD vs M3 benchmarks were a slightly slower single core, and a little faster in multicore. Doesn't seem as world changing as described.

guhidalg 2y ago
Yes. No other laptop can sustain peak performance as long as the M-series Macs. The only thing that competes is a dedicated desktop with a big cooler and fan. Mac laptops feel faster, even if the synthetic benchmarks say otherwise.
- margorczynski 2y ago
  You mean plugged in or battery?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
    You’ll get regular performance on battery. I’ve gone entire work days with my Pro on battery because I didn’t notice I hadn’t plugged it in. All my docker containers, IDE etc plugged into my external monitor. It was a good 9hrs before I noticed. Macs are easy to beat depending on what trade offs you want to make though.
- ddingus 2y ago
  I think this has a whole lot to do with the memory throughput, as well as great efficiency. My M1 still holds right up! It is the smallest RAM model, and even that is not the end of things.
  - matwood 2y ago
    I bought an M1 Max with 64gb of ram at release. I'm still not sure what will get me to replace it other than it simply breaking. Maybe an M5 will finally make me want to buy something new. I'm debating getting a cheaper Air and maybe a base Ultra now that I do most of my heavy work at a desk.

ericmcer 2y ago

The leap from intel to the M series chips really left everyone else behind. I can't even use my 2019 Macbook anymore it feels so sluggish. I have an M3 Pro and it blows all my old computers out of the water. Can handle pretty insane dev workflows (massive Docker composed environments) without issue and the battery life feels unfair. I can put in an 8 hour workday without my charging cable, I don't think I have turned it fully off in a few months, it just chugs along. It really embodies the "it just works" mindset.

teaearlgraycold 2y ago
I can easily take my M3 MBA on trips, using in on the plane both ways and a couple hours there for a few days, and not charge it once. I honestly looked for alternatives when I bought it last summer but there weren’t any competitive options.
- hypercube33 2y ago
  I mean my AMD T14 G4 gets like 12 hours of battery running windows, 150 browser tabs and a virtual environment. Not sure how the newer ones are and no they aren't as sleek or probably durable as a metal apple or dell XPS but I haven't got any complaints for the price.
  - lillecarl 2y ago
    Yeah everyone that went from "old shitty Intel" to M1 or above somehow gaslit themselves into believing nobody could catch up. AMD did catch up quickly, it's too bad they had to solder RAM to match but it is what it is...
    - poink 2y ago
      I don't think they "gaslit themselves," but I do think M1 was good enough a lot of people stopped thinking about hardware and their frame of reference is horribly out of date

caycep 2y ago

yes, it's apple and oranges. Apple is making a Veblen good. Dell/Lenovo are making lowest-cost/lowest-bid commodities

homefree 2y ago
It's not a Veblen good.
- motorest 2y ago
  > It's not a Veblen good. What do you think it is then?
  - frontfor 2y ago
    This is an incredibly lazy comment. I think you and most people would agree on the immense utility of Apple products. There’s also no evidence that demand increases with price in MacBooks.
    - motorest 2y ago
      > This is an incredibly lazy comment. It isn't, and it's amusing how people get riled with a simple request to justify why dismissed someone else's opinion without presenting a single argument. > I think you and most people would agree on the immense utility of Apple products. They are consumer electronics, and laptop manufacturers are a dime a dozen. Why do you believe they are special in that regard? I mean, until recently they even shipped with a below-standard amount of RAM. > There’s also no evidence that demand increases with price in MacBooks. That's the definition of a Veblen good, something that is not known for being useful beyond serving as a status symbol.
      - brulard 2y ago
        > That's the definition of a Veblen good, something that is not known for being useful beyond serving as a status symbol. I don't think you understood the Veblen good definition. And MacBooks do not fit the definition. The parent comment explained it well.

2c2c2c 2y ago

I thought this too but I think the amd mobile series chips have mostly caught up

tester756 2y ago

What about Lunar Lake?

twilo 2y ago
Solid, but still I can't find it in a laptop with passive cooling like the macbook air line here, which is a huge plus in a laptop imo

rconti 2y ago

But it seems the parent's point is there's no reason Dell couldn't have kept making improved XPS models. Maybe they don't compare on a $/watt basis with Apple silicon, but you could presumably have still paid less and gotten something pretty decent.

paulddraper 2y ago

M series really is amazing. But if you don’t want Apple, or you want to be able to upgrade, check out Frameworks. [1] Really satisfying combination of quality and value for high performance laptops. [1] https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/

kombine 2y ago
Their 16" laptop is extremely bulky. I think this is a category where Macbooks clearly win. Thinkpad and FrameWork have great options for 14", but at larger screen sizes something is always missing for me.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  To be fair, the 16" MacBook Pro (I have the M1 Max) is also rather bulky. It's to big and to heavy for travel. If you need do a lot of traveling, or just don't work at your desk, I'd recommend against getting a 16" laptop in general.
- paulddraper 2y ago
  It’s 0.15in thicker.

gargan 2y ago

In my experience the Snapdragon X Elite is about the same as an M2. It's got slightly worse battery life but still a battery that blows the competition out the water. Plus you get the benefits of loading out your laptop with 64GB RAM etc without paying Apples ridiculous prices Snapdragon are just getting started. The Snapdragon X2 is coming out later this year with 18 cores Apple does have some serious competition now

freehorse 2y ago
> you get the benefits of loading out your laptop with 64GB RAM etc If RAM is all you need on a M_ air type of machine sure, but the selling/buying point of apple silicon's unified memory is mainly around GPU/memory bandwidth at a low energy consumption level, which is yet to be rivaled (maybe AMD recently took steps towards there). If one's workload optimises for CPU-only and very high RAM, apple silicon was and probably will be the worst choice cost-wise. Also, for me, the no-no reason for snapdragon x elites until now is having to use windows, plus, as it turned out, the early unreliability of the actual products sold by laptop manufacturers. But the market has opened up, so prob we will see more competition towards there, which is great. Apple's good but not doing anything magic that others cannot eventually do to some extent. Though I am far more optimistic for AMD than Qualcomm tbh.

spaceman_2020 2y ago

My pet peeve is the trackpad How on earth are there literally ZERO non Apple laptops with a trackpad as smooth as Apple’s? This is an old technology. Surely someone must have reverse engineered this by now?

lotsofpulp 2y ago
How on earth are there still no non Apple laptops that instantly and reliably go to sleep when you close the lid?
- dagw 2y ago
  I suspect the answer to these questions are the same. When different companies are developing the OS, the drivers and the hardware it is much harder to get everything to play together nicely.
  - no_wizard 2y ago
    harder perhaps, but not impossible, and the market has had decades to figure this out. My guess is typical PC manufacturers have not felt it worth the time to invest in getting this aspect right. Ironically, the best non windows trackpad I ever used was when Vizio tried to make computers. They actually got the trackpad right. In fact, those computers were really cut above everyone else, but my guess is they didn't sell well because they were taken off the market almost as fast as they were introduced
- karn97 2y ago
  [dead]
- jscheel 2y ago
  Yeah, because apple is totally reliable for sleeping when it is supposed to. I love my macbook, but I have dealt with over a decade of macbooks waking when they should not. Love it when my macbook cooks itself in my bag overnight.
  - 2y ago