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GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• EarlKing 2y ago
  One person's results is not everyone's results. To say that this is hyperbolic would be the understatement of the millennium.
  • codr7 2y ago
    I'm more worried about longer term side effects. This sounds a lot like numbing "bad" feelings to me; there's no way to selectively numb, it's all or nothing. Impulsivity isn't all bad.
    • cm2187 2y ago
      As opposed to the good long term effects of being obese?
      • Trasmatta 2y ago
        There are a lot of people who are not obese that are taking these drugs. That might be where the fear is coming from.
        • smt88 2y ago
          Something like 70% of the US is overweight, so there actually aren't as many people who aren't experiencing negative health effects from being overweight or obese as you think
        • pessimizer 2y ago
          Nothing wrong about wanting to look hot if the danger level is not high. I haven't heard about people trying to use them to aid an eating disorder, like diabetics do with insulin.
        • kortilla 2y ago
          Most of them likely are obese. Obesity is so normal that what most people call “overweight” is actually obese and the people they think are obese are morbidly obese.
      • codr7 2y ago
        I realize obesity a major issue for a lot of people. But is it worth giving up your impulses? I mean all of them. I have no proof that's how it works long term, but I do feel the question should be asked before we dive in head first.
        • dghlsakjg 2y ago
          Anecdotally, it isn’t really giving up impulses. It blunts the desire for a lot of the ones that are related to consumption. I can still get a wild idea at 9 pm and lose myself in code. I still see flowers and buy them form my wife without planning. I still have a bowl of ice cream before bed sometimes. The best way to describe it is that you still have the impulse, but you are able to rationally consider it.
          • codr7 2y ago
            But how does the drug differentiate between consumption and other impulses? If that's where your most powerful impulses are, that's where you're going to notice the difference.
      • msabalau 2y ago
        As it happens, in the elderly, a BMI at the lower range of "obesity" is better than having higher or lower weight. Of course, with the shortage of geriatricians, most seniors are unlikely to find this out.
        • cm2187 2y ago
          Breaking news, being obese is good for your health. And wait to learn about smoking!
        • treis 2y ago
          This probably isn't true. What's more likely to be true is that it's hard to be overweight when your dying from cancer or whatever.
      • lm28469 2y ago
        I personally can't believe humanity is in such a state of decay that the two options allowed to be discussed are "50% of the population is morbidly obese, has 0 impulse control and will literally eat themselves to the grave" and "ozempic for life for 50% of the population" Are we just a bunch of NPCs waiting for the orders? One day it's McDonald's selling you the disease the next it's Novo Nordisk selling you the cure, and you apparently have to clap at that "miracle"?
        • SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
          I'm not sure what you mean by "allowed". It's common and quite popular to discuss other strategies for controlling obesity. If someone invented a diet or exercise plan that works as well as Ozempic, it would be huge. But nobody's yet been able to do so, which I suspect is because diet and exercise are fundamentally not effective anti-obesity strategies.
        • BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
          [flagged]
    • nemo 2y ago
      My wife's taking GLP-1s for health reasons. The author's ideas about the effects of these things are not evidence based. It isn't a magic drug that makes people ascetics. She eats less, but she still impulse buys clothes and things. The idea that the drug numbs feelings is not at all what I see, while some appetites are diminished, we still both do art, enjoy going out doing all the same stuff as before. She's lost weight, her vitals are looking better, and we eat out less, that's it.
      • cameronh90 2y ago
        I'm taking GLP-1s and it's absolutely reduced my impulsiveness in ways besides food. Not completely, for sure, and being less interested in food actually means more time to spend on other hobbies. But it's definitely done something to my non-food behaviour, albeit I'm not sure what exactly. It may well be that I was previously trying to satiate my constant desperate hunger for food with other forms of harmful addictive behaviour, and without the hunger, I just don't need that as much. The concept of satisfying one craving with another isn't new, after all.
        • codr7 2y ago
          Sounds like a good case for keeping a detailed diary of emotional state to me. The effects don't have to be dramatic to be harmful, subtle over time is arguably worse. I just hope people keep their eyes open, that's all.
  • TaupeRanger 2y ago
    What does this even mean? The results of GLP-1 meds are well studied and widely understood to be game changing and likely revolutionary. The other claims might be hyperbolic but results of the medication on individuals is not really a question at this point.
    • mordymoop 2y ago
      People are weirdly resistant to acknowledging the obvious implications of things if those implications seem big. There’s a broad “nothing ever happens” heuristic that people tend to mistake for wisdom.
    • danjl 2y ago
      The short term results are known, but we have very little data about the long term effects as of yet.
      • TaupeRanger 2y ago
        Not remotely true. We have strong studies out to 10 years at this point. Given the overwhelmingly positive results at our current state, it would take a huge safety signal occurring at 12-20+ years of usage to provoke a change in recommendation, and this is exceedingly unlikely. Basically all such signals are revealed by 10 years if they exist.
    • fourside 2y ago
      I think some skepticism is warranted. If this is a medication that most of us can be on and it comes with positive health benefits, that would mean that humans as a species have lower than optimal GLP-1 levels. I guess it’s possible that our bodies are wired for a world that is unlike today’s and that these drugs correct for that. But drugs that doesn’t come with side effects. It also wouldn’t be the first time that a drug company manages to convince the medical community to think a drug is healthier than it really is (OxyContin).
      • resoluteteeth 2y ago
        > I guess it’s possible that our bodies are wired for a world that is unlike today’s and that these drugs correct for that. The constant access to unlimited tasty food we have now is completely unprecedented in human history. Other animals will also overeat if you give them unlimited access to tasty high calorie food. This is absolutely a situation we did not evolve to be able to handle unfortunately. Lack of sufficient food was the norm for most of our history, so it's not surprising that we evolved to want to eat a calorie surplus if possible.
  • zemvpferreira 2y ago
    Yeah but a forecast 10 years out is a lot more fun/enlightening if it's hyperbolic. It doesn't make much food for thought to say 'We predict by 2030 the average consumer will have purchased jeans 2 sizes smaller than in 2010'. In any case, I hope they're directionally correct. A class of widely-available drugs that lets us switch off impulses that don't suit our environment and wellbeing any more would be incredible and world-changing. I'm very curious to try GLP-1 agonists myself.
• macintux 2y ago
  Interesting, but I’m not sure I buy it. I certainly don’t think Simon is preparing for this massive economic shift; I think they’re reacting to an existing trend. > America's largest mall operator, Simon Property Group, is converting anchor stores into medical centers and wellness spaces. They're doing this because they recognize the writing on the wall. Malls have been dying for years, and COVID felt like the nail in the coffin.
  • dumbfounder 2y ago
    Malls around DC are crazier than ever. But I am not sure if people are spending money or not.
    • bobthepanda 2y ago
      There are different classes of mall. In general those class A malls targeted at higher income stores and shoppers have been more resilient over the past decade than middle or lower. (Nordstrom vs Macy’s vs. Kmart)
    • WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
      I was last in NoVA in 2019 and shopped at the Sears at Landmark. It was the last store. Crazy=yes.
    • ForTheKidz 2y ago
      It's straight up miserable to be in mclean/tysons between october and february. Truly it is america's asshole. And yes, people conspicuously consume more than ever. I think this is likely not true of most malls, though, the shopping culture here is just nuts.
      • IgorPartola 2y ago
        Because in a lot of places there is nothing else fun to do. There is in particular nothing to do for teenagers. They aren’t welcome at most places and the mall is about the only place where you can go and (a) not be run out of there and (b) not have your parents worried that you are getting up to no good. So teenagers grow up in the malls and as adults are habitually going back.
• morkalork 2y ago
  Reading this you'd think we're on the cusp of the sort of utopian society seen in Brave New World. Class hierarchy reinforced by behaviour regulating drugs given to happy, subservient workers. Hell, with all that talk of impulse control, I wonder what it will do to people's motivation to protest and riot...
• 6stringmerc 2y ago
  Access to impulse reduction via medication is problematic and will be isolated in the US to those who, frankly speaking, probably do not spend at a meaningful rate compared to their asset (wealth) standing. It’s a brilliant observation though that if “something got in the water supply” and en masse consumer behavior changed, then absolutely the ripple would be astounding to watch. I still recall standing in a field outside Alliance airport watching Amazon cargo jets landing at basically 30 minute intervals and thinking “all that stuff and this system doesn’t make economic sense” and I for one eagerly await a…let’s just call it…recalibration.
• aljgz 2y ago
  > When companies like Google see their healthcare costs drop by $12,000 per employee annually and productivity increase by 25%, we observe a restructuring of corporate America that makes remote work a minor adjustment. In my entire office, there's one overweight person that I know. Out of thousands of employees. There could be more, and other cities might be different, but you get the idea. The author intentionally or mistakenly applies some numbers to whole populations. Keep chaining impacts while eliminating small coefficients, your end result will be off by more than a few orders of magnitude. EDIT: I need to be more clear about my point: My BigTech office does not represent my country stats: Canada has a 26% obesity and 36% overweight adult population. Just taking those numbers, applying them to all populations is wrong. The analysis is wrong in other subtle but important ways as well. A 25% increase in performance of an allegedly low performing group of a company would not increase the overall company's efficency as much.
  • Marsymars 2y ago
    > In my entire office, there's one overweight person that I know. Out of thousands of employees. That seems incompatible with the numbers that show something like 3/4 of the US population being overweight. (And yeah, BMI isn't great, but it works pretty well with an aggregate population of sedentary individuals, which the population at large is.)
    • thundergolfer 2y ago
      The population of a specific Google office could be two std deviations from the mean. My office area, SoHo NYC, has a dramatically lower obesity rate than the USA average. Maybe 10-20% of the population is overweight, let alone obese, and it’s mostly the service workers.
      • luckylion 2y ago
        But 1 of 1000s? That sounds like it's made up, or a very, very, very fitness-focused company.
        • 2y ago
• SilasX 2y ago
  So… certain jobs will be obsolete because we found a silver bullet for obesity? This is in the vein of “we eliminated a massive category of accidental deaths? But… but then what about the organ waitlist?”
• patrickhogan1 2y ago
  Jevons paradox applied to healthy people vs unhealthy. Healthy people create more demand not less. You order out you just order healthier. Healthier food is more expensive than junk food. You buy an expensive bike. More clothes. Healthcare is still expensive because people get older and older people need more care.
  • sapiogram 2y ago
    I don't think Jevon's Paradox applies here. People won't buy healthier food, they'll buy less food.
    • tejtm 2y ago
      Food is the easiest expense to maintain. If you are eating less, you absolutely may as well eat better.
• m3kw9 2y ago
  Looks like this is a worse case/best case scenario, rarely it will happen like that. There will be some effect but if people aren’t eating muffins, they are eating power balls. Not drinking beer, drinking tea. I would ear mark a 5-10% of that effect max, he’s going for 100%
• cj 2y ago
  I started Tirzepatide 3-4 weeks ago. (Mostly as an experiment to understand the hype around GLP's... I don't have diabetes and only very slightly overweight at 20% body fat). Even at the lowest 2.5mg starter dose which you're only allowed to stay on for 1 month: - Extreme appetite suppression to the point where I've started calorie counting specifically to make sure that I'm eating enough. It's incredibly easy to forget to eat. - No more feelings of hunger. At all. This is somewhat depressing. Eating is no longer enjoyable and feels like a chore. I woke up hungry for the first time in a while a couple days ago and was excited - jumped out of bed and ran to eat something just for the pure joy of it. I've only felt that a few times in the past few weeks, compared to every day off the drug. - I completely stopped drinking. Have you ever been to a bar after eating a big meal at a restaurant, and had trouble drinking because you were too full from your meal? That's how I feel all the time. 1 or 2 beers and it becomes uncomfortable to have anymore. - Normally I go grocery shopping and within 3-4 days, all the "good stuff" (snacks) I bought are eaten. Now, since I stopped snacking and eating much less, groceries simply last way longer. <-- $$ saved in groceries significantly offsets the monthly price of the medication - My morning starbucks routine has changed from 2 food items to just 1, which alone saves me $200/mo (sorry starbucks). - Haven't noticed anything regarding impulse control outside of food. No anecdata to share on that point... After a few weeks on the drug, I'm 100% convinced that once this drug is widely available and cheap... being overweight will be a choice (choosing not to take the drug). The most important aspect of the drug that makes it work so well is it forces you to change your habits, no will power required. It also punishes you for bad eating habits. (That late night trip to McDonalds will have you feeling like shit the next day). I'm the kind of person that used to be able to order just about anything on a restaurant menu and clean my plate completely. Now I simply can't do that. It's actually kind of embarrassing being at a restaurant with friends and being completely uninterested in the food.
  • devmor 2y ago
    > Extreme appetite suppression to the point where I've started calorie counting specifically to make sure that I'm eating enough. It's incredibly easy to forget to eat. This is the largest of several reasons I hesitate to try it for myself. I am a very big guy (I would be about 184lbs if I had 0% bodyfat at my current musculature level). From the experiences I hear, I would not only struggle to have enough energy to do any kind of rigorous exercise, but struggle to consume the amount of protein I require to even maintain my current muscle mass. I do have issues with overeating and the prospect of a drug that prevents me from consuming too many calories is attractive, but the side effects sound counterintuitive to any kind of natural fitness.
• dboreham 2y ago
  This isn't a new idea. Jim Cramer has been warning about reduced earnings by alcohol beverage companies and snack food vendors due to GLP-1s for at least a year.
• luketheobscure 2y ago
  Is there a term for this style of writing? It's like a longform linkedin post. I don't mean this as a criticism, it just seems like written language is evolving to better capture our diminishing attention spans.
  • rsync 2y ago
    I have been working on a new written form I refer to as an "Iceberg Article": https://john.kozubik.com/pub/IcebergArticle/tip.html https://john.kozubik.com/pub/IcebergArticle/tip.html ... which is intended to present detailed, long-form treatments of a subject yet, at the same time, provide something interesting and actionable in a brief moment.
    • morkalork 2y ago
      National Geographic articles are the very embodiment of this style.
  • robmerki 2y ago
    Hype cycle slop reminiscent of Business Insider, etc. Reminds of me engagement bait threads on Twitter which always include the “thread” emoji and the downward pointing finger emoji.
  • kordlessagain 2y ago
    Yeah, it's got that "visionary thought leader" vibe dialed up to 11. There's some interesting analysis in there, but it leans hard into the grandiosity—like he's the only one seeing the big picture while the rest of the world sleepwalks into a $100 trillion shift.
  • moritonal 2y ago
    I've had a hunch it's about the shrinking width of pages. The text-width is about 11-13 words (at a max-width of 728) and the author seems to have written around this. Because it's so thin, anything longer than 12 words becomes a paragraph which "slows" the reader, so there are a lot of punchy short sentences. This style would look silly if it was written on a wider left-aligned blog.
• mrtksn 2y ago
  I have been reading similar big promises about Ozempic specifically. I’ve seen calculations on the impact over airlines and many others things. Wouldn’t be easier just to look what happens in countries with low obesity rates? Certainly its good but doesn’t appear to be 100T good.
  • jefffoster 2y ago
    It’s not only the low obesity rates, the article states it suppresses impulsiveness.
• rsync 2y ago
  The real trend is deflation. People are having fewer children. Fewer miles are driven to fewer offices for fewer trips in cars. Fewer impulse buys are being made and fewer dollars will be made by advertisements (according to the ops conjecture). This is not inflationary. It is the opposite. We live in a deeply deflationary world and we should not be confused by the local, transitory inflation that we may be experiencing at this moment.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • fonkyyack 2y ago
    This! Consumption is made of impulse choices. (most of the times). Also we are having fewer children, does this drug reduce also the impulse of having sexual desires? In that case that would be even worst.
    • bobsmooth 2y ago
      Maybe if everyone becomes skinny we'll start having more sex because everyone looks better.
  • immibis 2y ago
    Monetary deflation is easy to solve: just print more money. But who do you give it to? Well, obviously, you give it to billionaires because they are the best at managing money because they're billionaires. They can then spend it on wages, without having to produce anything useful because they are just getting free printed money.
  • BeFlatXIII 2y ago
    All this sounds fantastic for environmental sustainability.
• dtquad 2y ago
  I'm from the country of Ozempic and Wegovy and neither Novo Nordisk nor our media have been portraying these drugs as general purpose anti-addiction drugs. However there have been some international studies that reveal that it might actually be. Can Novo Nordisk extend their patent of their existing drug if they find new applications for the drug? Some of Silicon Valley's excess productivity over the rest of the world is driven by ADHD medication. Curious what happens when they also start taking GLP-1 medication.
  • daveguy 2y ago
    Yes, a patent can be extended with a different use case. Drug repurposing or repositioning is mostly done exactly because of this financial benefit. Unfortunately that does not apply to currently generic drugs, so pharmaceutical companies don't put the resources into repurposing off-patent drugs that could be helpful. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_repositioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_repositioning
  • BandButcher 2y ago
    same to your last point as another person mentioned in this thread about people already combining glp's with other drugs, i can see scenarios in which some people abuse glps with adderall or even pain killers to become literal zombies - foregoing breakfast/lunch breaks, working longer hours... imo it could establish an even greater work demand from companies (implicitly) where if you're not on it, you're not "trying" hard enough.
• p0w3n3d 2y ago
  Don't those drugs have serious side effects? I remember reading something but not sure where
  • devmor 2y ago
    I recently did a bunch of consultation and research to decide if I wanted to start taking them, and the only currently discussed serious side effects are applicable exclusively to people with a history of pancreatic disorders.
  • monitron 2y ago
    Some people experience major side effects. Neither my wife (semaglutide) nor I (tirzepatide) have had any negative effects apart from minor upper GI disturbances when moving up to a higher dose. These dissipate within a week or so. That said, these are definitely serious drugs and I wouldn't be taking one if my quality and length of life weren't threatened by metabolic syndrome, and if I hadn't been trying for decades to solve the problem without medication.
• agnishom 2y ago
  The author is assuming that everyone will proactively start taking this drug. But I don't understand why? If Jerry is not obese, why would Jerry randomly start taking an anti-obesity drug?
  • devmor 2y ago
    It is a bit of a silly proposition, considering that 40% of Americans are obese, and many of that population cannot afford $800-$2000 prescriptions.
    • casey2 2y ago
      It's not silly at all. In 15-20 years this stuff will be <$100 for weeks of use. For many people $800 dollars is less than the they spend on food in the same time
      • dghlsakjg 2y ago
        Yup. The current retail cost in Canada is ~$160 USD per syringe for Ozempic.
        • pkaye 2y ago
          How much is Wegovy?
          • dghlsakjg 2y ago
            I don't have firsthand experience with Wegovy, but a little googling says $400-600 CAD/month. That's $277-$425 in USD
      • devmor 2y ago
        That's a bit of a ridiculous assumption to make, given that there are plenty of medications that have cost pennies to make for decades and still retail for hundreds to thousands. Perhaps in non-US locations it will be that cheap for sure.
• textlapse 2y ago
  If a person is careful and sophisticated enough to warrant GLP-1 drugs, they probably weren’t the ones that were binge drinking and DUIing and doing careless things in the first place. There are a lot of people who are sitting in front of a computer or a phone playing Roblox/Fortnite and watching TikTok and so on all day and night. The economy evolves and will work around them…
• slevis 2y ago
  Is GLP-1 really changing general impulse control? But I do buy the argument. If impulse controlling drugs are going to be effective, the economic impact is basically not quantifiable... not only the economic impact but it would change society as a whole in extremely fundamental ways (e.g. dating)
  • kadushka 2y ago
    So this drug would mess with my head – am I understanding it right?
    • KaoruAoiShiho 2y ago
      Everything messes with your head, this adjusts the mess levels.
    • bozhark 2y ago
      Maybe gut? Lot’s of serotonin receptors there, right?
  • permanent 2y ago
    There is not evidence to suggest general impulse control. That's extrapolation (beyond food items) and likely untrue IMHO.
    • slevis 2y ago
      Some comments below someone claimed the opposite... do you have any studies?
• teleforce 2y ago
  >Consider this: When alcohol consumption drops 40% (as it does for many people on these medications), we're not just talking about lower beer sales. We're talking about: Apparently in most muslim households this drops to 100% or zero consumption, you don't need freaking drugs for that
  • phatfish 2y ago
    Converting to Islam feels like a bigger commitment than reading side effects of the drug you are about to take.
  • throw-qqqqq 2y ago
    Hah, Breatharians can do way better than that! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia
• timewizard 2y ago
  > alcohol spending fell 85% You've replaced one drug with another. Freud would be proud. > If you told someone in 1850 that air conditioning would reshape the global economy, they'd think you were crazy. This is incredibly misinformed. You've lived /with/ refrigeration and /without/ malaria for so long you have no Earthly idea how people in the opposite state lived their lives or saw the world around them. > We're discussing the first medication that effectively regulates human impulse control. Think about that. It has side effects. Think about that. > The significant economic impact occurs in the second and third-order effects. Yes and many of them will be negative. This is hyper futurism with zero grounding in the past. This is extremely lazy writing.
  • casey2 2y ago
    I can't understand this type of thinking. "you replaced this drug with hundreds of known downsides with one that has none" Nice nonargument for the rest of your post. It's somehow misinformed to state the fact that the southern manufacturing industry simply cannot exist before air conditioning Frankly your attitude is evil and you are a proponent of evil.
    • timewizard 2y ago
      > with one that has none I can't understand this type of thinking. Of course it has downsides. You are being extremely disingenuous to say this. Let alone not acknowledging that different people experience different side effects. Plus you're completely ignoring the /reasons/ why people drink in the first place and abandoning any effort to impact those. Do you work for the company producing this drug or are you genuinely this gullible? > your attitude is evil and you are a proponent of evil. So you label things you don't understand as evil? What is this meant to accomplish? If you really believe what you say then why aren't you pressing for the drug to be free? For free consultations to be given out? If it's truly this magical then it's very irresponsible to let a for profit company own it, sell it, and market it. Isn't it? Wouldn't that actually be evil? To champion this cause merely to make money for a patent holder? You diminish these terms in your careless use of them.
  • FitCodIa 2y ago
• GZGavinZhao 2y ago
  I would feel like an absolute failure if I need medicine to help create willpower. EDIT: under the assumption of an average person who is not under any medical condition that may result in lack of willpower
  • netsharc 2y ago
    Wasn't there an ADHD drug that was popular for hyper-productivity, in the years where being productive was all the hype?
    • ReptileMan 2y ago
      Yeah. Amphetamines. All of those are drugs are like a scooby doo villain unmasking and amphetamines are underneath the mask.
    • blitzar 2y ago
      Work place performance enhancing drugs are still a thing. If you are not on them you are at a major disadvantage.
    • throwaway657656 2y ago
      Not ADHD specifically, but about 12 years ago, the media was hyping Provigil as a "secret weapon" of the ultra-productive. Despite having a prescription, CVS told me that my insurance wouldn't cover it and it would cost $1500 for 30 pills. I walked away and then went back to buy it. If I could just get 30 additional minutes of billable time per day per pill it would be worth it. I took about 5 over a week and destroyed the rest. It wasn't good for anything but keep me awake in a semi-zombie low-creative state. This very expensive drug/lesson was effective and making me realize I need to seriously work on my impulse control.
      • alostpuppy 2y ago
        That was a weird hype train when that happened around that one. I tried it and gained like 40 pounds.
  • 2y ago
• KaiserPro 2y ago
  I would point out that it isn't unforeseen, given that genz don't drink, go out or do drugs to anywhere near the extent that millennials did at the same age. (https://www.statista.com/chart/30783/alcohol-consumption-by-generation/ https://www.statista.com/chart/30783/alcohol-consumption-by-...) I would also gently point out the evidence for tempering alcohol only seems to be evident with people who have high BMI https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/mental-health-pain-and-addiction/glp-1-drugs-could-help-people-drink-less-alcohol-research-suggests/ https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/mental-heal... So yes, its worth thinking about how our economy is organised. But the thing that is going to kneecap the US economy in the short terms are one of the following: o Tariffs o Cutting government spending (especially welfare) o a steep rise in unemployment caused by government firing of civil servants o fucking with the structure of the monetary system o AI eliminating whole classes of jobs (taxi driving, phone centers, clerical work, etc etc)
  • dehrmann 2y ago
    Genz just swapped traditional vices for social media...which also deals with impulse control.
    • kansface 2y ago
      I wonder which is more harmful?
      • fallingknife 2y ago
        I can't say which is more harmful, but social media is a hell of a lot less fun
        • anal_reactor 2y ago
          I take LSD every two to three months, and I'm always excited to do so, even though I usually get bad trips. Weed consistently gives me at least five minutes of joy
        • 2y ago
• bawolff 2y ago
  >- Movie theaters becoming "social experience centers" >- Retail spaces becoming venues to "try before you subscribe" >- Restaurants becoming "social nutrition centers" >- Shopping malls converting to "wellness districts" Except for resturants, all of these have had problems for a long time. People have been talking about the death of shopping malls since the 90s. Feels like other factors are in play here.
• Earw0rm 2y ago
  The article posits that 80% of the top income quintile will be on this medication. I have to ask, why? (I'm not in the US, I should add). Like, sure, is the average American overweight? Yes. Are 80% of the top 20% of earners? Seems pretty doubtful, plenty of the rich look to be in reasonable shape. That statistic suggests that 80% of successful people have such poor impulse control that they end up seriously overweight or obese. And I say that as someone who likes a treat every couple of days, but exercises enough to maintain a fairly healthy weight. Admittedly if there were a GLP1 for procrastination, I'd be on that stuff like a shot...
  • cedws 2y ago
    There are some signs that these drugs have effects beyond just apetite supression leading to weight loss. I recall reading something about them having a direct slowing effect on the metabolism, which increases longevity, among other benefits. I can foresee it being used like a supplement among those who can afford it.
    • wakawaka28 2y ago
      It will probably fuck up your body in ways that we can hardly imagine. Ozempic has been linked to lots of horrible side effects.
      • glp1guide 2y ago
        No it hasn’t— its well researched and the short to mid term (ish) side effects are well known: https://glp1.guide/tag/category-side-effects/ https://glp1.guide/tag/category-side-effects/
        • wakawaka28 2y ago
          [flagged]
          • the_sleaze_ 2y ago
• goda90 2y ago
  I think an angle not covered is that the "impulse economy" actually degrades impulse control. Advertising, social media feeds, etc are all hammering away at people's willpower, and getting is addicted to giving in to impulses. If these things disappear, maybe even people who aren't on these drugs would have more impulse control.
• cedws 2y ago
  This class of the drugs is the biggest thing to happen in medicine in a long time in my view (as somebody who does not work in the industry.) Is there any data to show they have an effect on other addictive behaviours, like drug addiction, social media addiction, caffeine addiction?
• sub7 2y ago
  My guess is there's also a long term explosion in liver/stomach/pancreatic cancers coming which might be the diabetes/heart attack/strokes of the 21st century.
  • SoftTalker 2y ago
    Read up on fen-phen.
• Animats 2y ago
  Wow. And this is the first generation of this class of drugs. Better drugs with fewer side effects are in the pipeline.
  • dist-epoch 2y ago
    Maybe, or maybe not. Drugs are not like a smartphone. There is no reason to believe you can improve on them (except on price)
    • _diyar 2y ago
      I see your point. But consider that drug generations are generally not defined by the manufacturer, but by the broad community of researchers and clinicians finding step-changes in their effectiveness/side-effect tradeoffs. So by definition, if they ever consider a "new generation" of GLP1-agonists, they will be better by definition.
    • Animats 2y ago
      Sure there is. All the way back to aspirin. Before aspirin, there was salicylic acid, which has some painkiller effect but tastes awful and causes stomach upset. Researchers at Bayer found that tacking on an acetyl group produced acetylsalicylic acid, with the same painkiller effect but fewer side effects. That's aspirin. Drug companies are trying to improve on Ozelympic.[1] The big win will be when somebody comes up with a pill form rather than an injectable. [1] https://qz.com/novo-nordisk-eli-lilly-ozempic-wegovy-weight-loss-drugs-1851737399 https://qz.com/novo-nordisk-eli-lilly-ozempic-wegovy-weight-...
• caycep 2y ago
  the economy depends on dopamine dysfunction in the VTA area i guess
• submeta 2y ago
  Big food corporations profit from ultra-processed foods that manipulate our natural systems. They design products that override satiety signals using calculated combinations of sugar, fat and salt to activate brain dopamine pathways. Their priority is profit growth, not consumer health. The consequences are significant health issues like obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular diseases. Healthcare systems struggle with preventable conditions while millions experience declining health and shorter lifespans. These corporations employ questionable strategies: marketing to children, lobbying against regulations, funding misleading research, and shifting responsibility to consumers. Medications like Ozempic represent a threat to this model by reducing appetite and interrupting compulsive eating. Recent industry concerns about declining sales show how these medications could undermine their business approach. If consumers regain control over their eating habits, corporations may finally face consequences for practices that have profited from health problems for decades.
  • crazygringo 2y ago
    > Big food corporations profit from ultra-processed foods that manipulate our natural systems. I've just never bought this. Does grandma manipulate you when she adds sugar to her cherry pie? Does she manipulate you when she adds salt to her mashed potatoes? Foods -- "ultra-processed" or not -- don't "manipulate" you. They literally just either taste better or taste worse. Grandma, and her grandma before her, used sugar, fat, and salt, and thank goodness they did. These are normal ingredients. It's not like they're nicotine or heroin or something. I mean, is a fig tree "manipulating" you when its figs ripen with sugar so they'll be eaten? You're not being manipulated. You're just choosing to eat what you choose to eat based on what you like.
    • otterley 2y ago
      You should visit a food processing plant sometime. What they are doing with food is not what your grandma does when she cooks it from ingredients you can buy at the grocery store. And I bet your grandma doesn’t have a food chemistry lab to fine tune her recipes. Similarly, fig trees don’t make Fig Newtons. They make figs.
• ReptileMan 2y ago
  Sounds dystopian. And also Ozempic face. To me it seems that it doesn't activate all fat cells in the same way natural weight loss does. I do have a feeling that GLP-1 agonists will eventually bite us in the ass. Usually this is the way with molecules that are too miracle - hello cocaine, plastics, teflon and amphetamines. There may be some spectacular risks that will become evident after decades.
• dehrmann 2y ago
  Interesting article, but I do have a nit: > Nike is shifting from "Just Do It" impulse messaging to long-term wellness partnerships My read of "just do it" is actually the opposite. It's a message to dedicated athletes about not making excuses end executing.
  • _diyar 2y ago
    In marketing world, many consider the slogan "Just Do It" to have a double meaning: 1) Don't make excuses, get after your goals! (the one you're espousing) 2) Treat yourself, just buy it (the one the articles author is emphasizing).
    • ph0rque 2y ago
      Just like YOLO can mean You Only Live Once (so make it count).
• neilv 2y ago
  > We're discussing the first medication that effectively regulates human impulse control. Is this another numbing zombie drug, like over-prescribed anti-depressants -- that some people genuinely need, but that make some other people accept a situation that they would otherwise be up to challenging and improving? Also, are there side effects than can make it backfire for any patients? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly)#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly)#Origin
• lurk2 2y ago
  It's an interesting idea, but ultimately being sensationalized. The article starts off by making a compelling case that the widespread adoption of these impulse-control drugs will disrupt the economy and lead to many changes in business models built around impulse buys. The issue is that these drugs only entered the public consciousness within the last two years, and many of the business model changes that the author implies are attributable to the drugs have been going on for a lot longer than that. His treatment of retail is an obvious one (he's ignoring the impact of changing consumer practices that came about due to online shopping). The replacement of anchor stores with medical centers is another one - I can remember reading about this on Hacker News in 2017. I suspect his projections on the impacts these drugs will have on crime rates and alcohol consumption are probably also overblown. I could be wrong, but I would think that the sorts of people who seek out prescription drugs for impulse control aren't likely to overlap with people who drive drunk in the first place. The anecdote about the lost muffin revenue was still quite interesting.
  • sfpotter 2y ago
    ??? They're going to be trying to get on a weight loss drug, not an "impulse control drug". And I don't see why you would assume there's little overlap between people who desperately want to lose weight and people who drive drunk.
    • lurk2 2y ago
      From the article: "We're not just talking about weight loss. We're discussing the first medication that effectively regulates human impulse control. Think about that." > I don't see why you would assume there's little overlap between people who desperately want to lose weight and people who drive drunk. This is only a hunch, but I would guess that drunk driving is associated with low conscientiousness and that the sorts of people who are going to go through the trouble of getting medicated to lose weight are unlikely to be the sorts of people who drive drunk in the first place. Maybe I was misinterpreting the point he was trying to make.
      • sfpotter 2y ago
• jemmyw 2y ago
  I don't see any comments talking about it, and it's not mentioned in the article, but if it changes impulse control I wonder what effect that will have on politics. Hopefully one where people will take a longer view and look at policies rather than impulsively voting for the candidate they think they like the most.
  • YokoZar 2y ago
    I think the most likely political effect is from media consumption. There have been anecdotal reports of the drug helping people avoid doomscrolling compulsions, which likely means less exposure to various political social media.
• blitzar 2y ago
  For the rest of the world, not so much. For America however, this is a huge disruptor. The pride associated with having a body shape that a well trained Ai would classify as Manatee rather than Human is rapidly changing and _eventually_ society will be better off for it.
  • sarchertech 2y ago
    There are maybe 2k people in the country who are proud of being fat at most. Also everyone is getting fatter. America is just 30 years ahead of most of the rest of the world in terms of obesity. Take whatever country you care to name and the population of that country 30 years ago would call the population today lard-asses.
  • bobsmooth 2y ago
    Don't act so smug https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Overweight_and_obesity_-_BMI_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
• thrownawaysz 2y ago
  I'm on Saxenda (liraglutide) since last August. Started at 163kg, so far 39kgs down I'm at 124kg right now. And I'm not stopping here. Anything under 105kg is already good but I really want to reach a two digit weight. Saxenda + a calorie restricted diet is pretty much the best combo. Can't complain, never felt any better.
• rs186 2y ago
  Off topic: Since we are doing clickbait titles, I thought ChatGPT / Gen AI in general might be a better candidate for "the biggest economic disruptor since the internet", based on hype, especially from the "leaders" who claim that AGI is just a few months away.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• justlikereddit 2y ago
  The article describes a psychotic lifestyle as normal. I didn't need a drug to reject having breakfast at Starbucks. I bake my own bread. I wake up early to have time to eat it in peace. I take enough time to roast my own coffee beans. I commute by bike. It's about having some standards. A concept of a lifestyle and person that isn't just a corpo drone.
• wileydragonfly 2y ago
  I’ve lost 35lbs on them and won’t ever stop using them.
  • temptemptemp111 2y ago
    [dead]
• skmurphy 2y ago
  The most significant takeaway for me from this analysis was that many businesses were aligned with helping people become or remain obese. Where do the opportunities flow to now that people can apply their disposable income to items beyond food and alcohol? Something similar happened during the "low carb" shift when bakery goods sales decreased, but people shifted to high protein (and perhaps high fat) food away from high carb. But it was still food. This feels a little different.
• raphman 2y ago
  Is this person an expert of any kind? They throw around dozens of numbers without any sources. For example, > 'A movie theater chain recently analyzed their user data and discovered that 72% of their profits came from concessions, primarily from impulse purchases made by people who swore they "wouldn't buy anything."' This combination of non-descript source, precise numbers, and 'quotes' looks like the usual bullshit one reads in self-help books. I conducted a quick online search but couldn't find any direct source for this claim (although the number might be in the right ballpark).
  • Earwig 2y ago
    Yeah, I’m also having a lot of trouble finding sources for the specific claims they’re making (even, say, the NFL stadium redesign thing, which feels like it should be easy to find). And taking into account the AI-generated lead image, I’m a bit skeptical of all this.
  • llm_trw 2y ago
    Is there any evidence for general impulse control? I'm seeing papers claiming both increased and decreased impulse control.
  • qnleigh 2y ago
    This article also throws out a bunch of trends and then attributes them to Ozempic with no evidence. > America's largest mall operator, Simon Property Group, is converting anchor stores into medical centers and wellness spaces. Maybe that's because malls have been struggling for years and are trying new tactics in response to that? > Whole Foods is shifting from endcap promotions to subscription services. So many industries are shifting to subscription services, because it's so lucrative. What evidence do we have that this is triggered by Ozempic patients?? When will I get downvote privileges on this site...
• dhfbshfbu4u3 2y ago
  This is just the start. Those in the know are already stacking: GLP-1 Agonists, Senolytics, NMDA Modulators, Hormones and Peptides, NAD+ and mTOR Modulation, Nootropics and Adaptogens… Forget weight loss. These people are going for immortality.
  • BandButcher 2y ago
    no Just-In-Time crispr gene editing as the cherry on top??
    • dhfbshfbu4u3 2y ago
      Nope. Just stuff they can use right now. No magic required!
      • slicerdicer2 2y ago
        GLP-1s have high quality double blinded placebo controlled RCTs proving them. Does anything else you mentioned?
        • dhfbshfbu4u3 2y ago
          Couple do, though long term studies on a few are missing. RCT-Proven: GLP-1 Agonists, mTOR Modulation (Rapamycin), NMDA Modulators (Ketamine), Metformin. Speculative/Limited Data: Senolytics, Hormones and Peptides, NAD+, Nootropics and Adaptogens. Keep in mind that the absence of published RCTs does not mean an intervention is ineffective; it may just be proprietary knowledge. Plenty of rich, private labs out there doing that kind of work today.
• aussieguy1234 2y ago
  Lisa's coffee shop should start optimising their coffee. Obviously the muffin part of the business is on the way out.
• creer 2y ago
  We keep hearing this kind of "reasoning" > 8.5 million jobs at risk And it's a problem: 8.5 million working diligently to make the world less efficient, less healthy - generally less up-to-speed - is NOT a good thing. It's not something to long for. It's not something to protect through ... what? forced impulse buying? or other subsidies. It's something to change urgently - or at least get ready for. (And some of the businesses mentioned do think about it.) Still it would be nice if society - in particular the US - put some effort into succeding at these transitions. These transitions do not need to be "one day you have a job, the next you don't and good luck". For one thing these transitions are never sudden - they have 5-10 years thereabout. For another there are options, "illegal to fire" (France, insane), "work or train" (Denmark is it?, admirable idea), "ease of starting and running new businesses" (various countries, the US not in the lead). By contrast, we regularly see indefinite term subsidies, and minimal education / training planning.
• matt3210 2y ago
  An hour of exercise in the morning for me has the same effect as the described effects of the drug.
  • bob1029 2y ago
    I get by with 30 minutes every day. It would seem the more consistent the routine, the less the cravings at 11pm.
• aussieguy1234 2y ago
  For years, I had the opposite problem most have with their weight. My main problem was gaining it. Food was not enough - I will loose weight relying on food alone. It seems that with food, I often don't like the taste or texture, or the sensation associated with eating. I also tend to feel full relatively quickly. My solution was to make a shake - in this shake, I put a large amount of olive oil, mixed in with other ingredients which cancelled out the taste. Easy to consume over the day. Over several years of having the shake, I got to a weight I'm happy with. I'm now in total control and can regulate my weight simply by adding or removing the olive oil in my shake. Over the past year I've started weight training 5 days a week and adding protein to the shake with good results. When I go on holidays and don't have access to my blender, I reliably loose a bit of weight - probably the opposite problem most have when they go on holidays. I'm also non drinker. Never really got on board with alcohol, didn't like the sensations of the effects. I still eat normal meals much the same as before, just a smaller serving than what most others have.
  • bobsmooth 2y ago
    Genuine question, what were trips to the bathroom like drinking your olive oil shake?
    • aussieguy1234 2y ago
      No issues at all. It could be up to 1/4 olive oil and no problems. There are some cultures in the Mediterranean that also consume alot of it.
• hownottowrite 2y ago
  When I had my first real programming gig in the early 90s, I worked 14+ hours a day and ate fast food exclusively (often in very large quantities). My weight ballooned to nearly 400 pounds. Then I got sick… I couldn’t eat anything with fat. Just the thought of it made me physically ill. I ended up dropping half my body weight in 18 months. What I learned is that it is possible to break your body in many ways.
• lesinski 2y ago
  Much as I have read research and heard stories of the knock-on health improvement effects of GLP-1s... Expect a lot of that economic value to be captured by pharmaceutical companies charging for them. And insurance companies charging higher premiums, because they're paying for everyone to be on them.
• ripped_britches 2y ago
  I hear you about the appetite part but what is the evidence that this would affect other impulse purchases that aren’t food?
• me_again 2y ago
  There's an awful lot of "35% this, 27% the other" numbers in this article, and exactly 0 citations for any of them.
• YokoZar 2y ago
  The article warns about impending future inequality: > Imagine two employees. One can afford these medications, the other cannot. One has regulated impulses, higher energy, better focus, and lower healthcare costs. The other doesn't. In a few years, data shows the first is three times more likely to be promoted. > Scale that across society. I'm not sure this is a reasonable worry. Ozempic is going out of patent in less than a year's time. There will be cheap generics all over the place. Purportedly the drug has a very low unit cost and uncomplicated manufacturing process, and every potential generic manufacturer knows it'll be a huge hit. That means we should expect it to rapidly become a commodity that's quite available. If it really does cut food, alcohol, and cigarette costs so dramatically then I suspect a decent amount of poorer people would budget for the drug even if it didn't become cheap. It's not like poor people don't buy food, alcohol, or cigarettes today -- if it's a net savings and health/life improvement, it's even more worth buying than the alternative.
  • jijji 2y ago
    when semaglutide and tirzepatide first came out, they were being synthesized in labs across the world for pennies per milligram, as with all compounds.
    • glp1guide 2y ago
      Yeah unfortunately that’s about to come to an abrupt end
      • jijji 2y ago
        how so? the last i checked, the prices are going down, not up (from the biolabs that manufacture the peptides)
        • glp1guide 2y ago
          Sorry a bit late here, but both Tirzepatide and Semaglutide are off the shortage list, and the promise to not seek legal action that is currently allowing some compounders to operate freely will likely end sometime soon. Literally, the only reason any compounder today (that is brave enough) can produce Tirzepatide or Semaglutide is because the FDA has promised to not pursue legal action for a short period to enable people to find other solutions. Prices are about to go back up/a bunch of options are about to leave the market. See: Novo Nordisk's share price/related news.
• appleorchard46 2y ago
  Obesity causes many health problems, but it's also a symptom - of our poor relationship with food, of the way American society is set up around instant gratification, of the predatory nature of food manufacturers. Though treating the symptom is undeniably good, it also lets the deeper problems that lead to it go unchecked, and my fear is that it will lead to novel problems down the line. How recreational drugs are being replaced by social media is a good example of this; less harm to the body, undeniably good, but still harmful to the mind, and enabling new industries to pop up and find new ways to exploit people. To be clear my problems aren't with Ozempic, and I believe it should be researched further and, if safe (which seems to be the case), widely available. But the fact is that many nations are able to maintain healthy weight without drugs, and I think if we fail to continue asking why that is, the same societal patterns that led to self-destructive individual behavior in the first place will remain unaddressed.
  • thisisnotauser 2y ago
    The destructive behavior is overeating and this treatment eliminates the overeating. The problem is human beings are imperfect creatures. This drugs corrects the hormone imbalance that leads to overeating. It is fixing the actual problem. The idea that medical treatment makes us weaker is genuinely harmful nonsense on the order of claiming vaccines make us sick, and you should seriously reconsider your position here.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
      Where did these hormone imbalances come from, when and why did they arise, why aren't they uniformly distributed across the globe? Answering these questions may lead to a root cause of obesity and obviate the need for medication altogether.
      • toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Do you believe overeating to not be the equivalent of depression, schizophrenia, addiction, or bipolar disorder requiring medical intervention? If so, why? This is brain chemistry.
• glp1guide 2y ago
  Incredibly excited about these drugs (like everyone else) and have been looking into them for a bit. A few notes: - Semaglutide just came off the shortage list [0], companies won’t be able to compound it for long - generic Liraglutide exists, and is about half as effective - patent expiries vary[1] [0]: https://glp1.guide/content/semaglutide-removed-from-shortage-list/ https://glp1.guide/content/semaglutide-removed-from-shortage... [1]: https://glp1.guide/content/another-generic-liraglutide-launch-hikma-phamaceuticals/ https://glp1.guide/content/another-generic-liraglutide-launc...
  • glp1guide 2y ago
    Woops, last link is wrong: https://glp1.guide/content/patent-expirations-for-glp1-receptor-agonists https://glp1.guide/content/patent-expirations-for-glp1-recep...
• Guthur 2y ago
  Brave New World here we come, seems you can make this stuff up...
• fluorinerocket 2y ago
  Sounds like the world of demolition man
• SimianLogic 2y ago
  I've been on it for about a year and it has not helped with my new impulse to buy home gym equipment. (Lost ~35 lbs before tirzepatide, ~50 more lbs on it)
• gunian 2y ago
  [flagged]
• victor106 2y ago
  What is the best way to profit from this? Short the stock market? Buy companies that make GLP1's?
• pierrefermat1 2y ago
  40% alochol consumption reduction did not lead to "a fundamental restructuring of the social economy" The hyperbole is just painful to listen to
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• worik 2y ago
  > Analysts predict that by 2030, 30% of American adults will be on these medications, What on Earth are Americans doing to themselves? I understand that ic certain cases these drugs may be useful, but as a replacement for proper food and health care? Eat better, move more, it sounds like a full blown systemic health crisis
• googlehater 2y ago
  code monkey writing ozempic fanfic.