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Amazon now discloses you're buying a license to view Kindle eBooks

467 points by DavideNL 2y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
the flag flies high and the seas are smoother than they've ever been.
- 9dev 2y ago
  Anchoring in Port Anna, are ye, or are there any other exciting harbours to set sails to, fellow adventurer?
  - RedCardRef 2y ago
    The ePub comes from Port Anna, then a quick sanity check via EPUB FIX [1] then finally to the official amazon.com/sendtokindle All of the above if you want a wireless experience, you can just use Calibre and plug in the reader via USB for a smoother experience. [1] https://kindle-epub-fix.netlify.app/ https://kindle-epub-fix.netlify.app/
    - homebrewer 2y ago
      Or better yet, jailbreak your kindle before the hole is closed, install koreader, and read epub natively. It's a much better reader compared to the built-in one anyway. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - simonklitj 2y ago
        And you can send straight to the Kindle from Calibre via WiFi, no need for /sendtokindle.
    - alkh 2y ago
      Thanks for the useful link! I guess I am being overly paranoid, but I always also add a virus total check on top of it to make sure the file is clean [1] [1] https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
    - exe34 2y ago
      /sendtokindle seems a bit brave if you obtained your epub off the back of a lorry..
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      KOReader + Calibre is also fully wireless. Get a Kobo, not a Swindle.
  - SSLy 2y ago
    Myanonamouse
- chrisblackwell 2y ago
  Interesting quote.
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  Oh what I’d pay for a 100% legal version of Plex (e.g. allows me to easily buy and stream my media)
  - caseyy 2y ago
    Someone should create a video streaming service with a vast catalog. That'd attract all the subscribers even at a higher subscription cost, and they'd surely be able to pay their licensing fees. So long as they don't need to grow infinitely for their shareholders and enshittify their offerings, it will be a sustainable and profitable business[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
- abenga 2y ago
  Libgen has been down for a couple of months. It seems the seas are getting a bit choppy.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. Plenty of the domains are online.
    - abenga 2y ago
      Not really. Look at open-slum, libgen is uniformly red. Maybe some domains that share the name are operating, but none that provide the same interface, with downloadable files.
chomp 2y ago
I don’t think I would ever buy an e-book. It makes no sense to me. If I want a copy for my personal collection I’ll keep it in hardcover. Otherwise I’ll just use Libby and check it out when it becomes available. There are cases where I will toss an independent author a few dollars in exchange to read their book, but there’s no way I would ever pay Amazon or another publisher.
- lolinder 2y ago
  I really want to find a good way to buy DRM-free ebooks. Libby was great early on and is still fine, but at least in my library system the wait times for a lot of titles are measured in months. I know some people make this work by just having a queue that's constantly cycling, but I don't read print books (as opposed to audiobooks) like that. There's only a subset of all books that I would ever want in print at all, and when I want them I want them for a specific purpose (to consult for a quote or something) now, not months from now. Purchased ebooks fill that role, but I'm only interested in buying if they're DRM-free.
  - InsideOutSanta 2y ago
    Some publishers sell DRM-free e-books directly on their website. This is the best way to buy books, because it grants the greatest amount of money to the original author.
  - WolfeReader 2y ago
    If you browse on Kobo, each book will tell you if it's DRM-free or not. Lots of small publishers will also sell books directly from their website, DRM-free in my experience. And Humble Bundle book collections are DRM free too.
    - corney91 2y ago
      > And Humble Bundle book collections are DRM free too. Not all of them. I've had at least one bundle where you redeem it via the Kobo store for DRMed ePubs. Most I've got via Humble Bundle have been DRM-free though.
IshKebab 2y ago
It's ok boys, now you're allowed to pirate all books ever published as long as you don't seed.
- phony-account 2y ago
  Almost the worst thing about Amazon and this gouging way of renting books is that it ‘legitimizes’ piracy. My partner works in publishing and we know a lot of authors. If you think piracy is going to sustain that industry and give you and your children books to read in the years and decades to come, you’re very mistaken.
  - DetroitThrow 2y ago
    Plenty of books I've tried to purchase epub or PDFs of only have Kindle rental versions. If the publishers of these authors wanted me to let me own a PDF, I'd gladly purchase, but until they actually do that I have several easy alternatives to getting sucked into Amazon's ridiculous ecosystem. And this is a larger subset of books I want to buy than I would want, surprisingly.
    - jazz9k 2y ago
      I say the same thing about GNU licensed software: if the author just gave me my preferred licensing terms, I wouldn't be forced to use it in proprietary software without compenstion.
      - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        How is pirating books to read them by myself comparable to proactively selling other people's work?
        drawkward 2y ago
        Neither belonged to you in the first place.
1over137 2y ago
Where's a good place to pirate audio books these days? Is bittorrent still where it's at?
- choilive 2y ago
  Doesnt directly answer the question, but nowadays there are good and free TTS that will essentially turn your entire ebook to an audiobook. (Elevenlabs Reader for example)
  - agnishom 2y ago
    Doesn't directly relate to your comment, But I hate ElevenLabs for purchasing Omnivore and shutting it down.
    - NetOpWibby 2y ago
      Same way I feel about HP for doing the same to Palm
  - dharmab 2y ago
    I like these tools for content where no narration exists (especially for proofreading my own writing) but they aren't anywhere near as good as a good human narrator. e.g: https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?t=103 https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?t=103
- rhamzeh 2y ago
  For audiobooks, instead of pirating I would recommend https://libro.fm https://libro.fm - you can buy them DRM free and they donate part of the proceeds to your library of choice.
- UlisesAC4 2y ago
  Basically torrent is the best option, check readarr.
- megadata 2y ago
  I heard a bloke at the pub mention audiobookbay dot various TLDs. I have no idea if that's true or not.
arnaudsm 2y ago
That button should say "Rent this book". Claiming you can "Buy this book" is a lie and false advertising.
- devoutsalsa 2y ago
  alias book="license"
- Espressosaurus 2y ago
  Yeah. I "bought" a Kindle copy of There Will Be War awhile back to get access to a few of the short stories in the collection. After reading about how they're taking away downloads I went and downloaded all of my books and found that at some point they must have lost the license to that book because I no longer had access to it. Love it when my "purchases" can be taken away from me with no recourse. edit: and I was never even informed that the book had been taken away. It just is there in my collection with a few invalid characters at the front of the title and no cover picture. The link goes to a page that doesn't exist. And searching for it shows only paper copies now by third parties. So I know this isn't just a bug in the system.
  - daveoc64 2y ago
    This does not happen with the Kindle Store. Anything you've purchased will remain in your library unless: 1) You delete it (which can happen by accident, due to some bad UX). If you have done this, you can contact Amazon Support and they can re-add it to your library for free. It's not possible to delete your purchase history on the Amazon website, and that includes all Kindle books. Whenever I've seen people claim that digital content has gone from their Amazon account, it always turns out to be either: a) They didn't buy it on Amazon in the first place. b) They bought it on a different Amazon account.
    - caconym_ 2y ago
      > This does not happen with the Kindle Store. It has, in fact, happened: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am... Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it has happened, and it's a great example of why having your books (or any media) locked up in a walled garden is a terrible idea. (though this is far from being the only objectionable angle)
dns_snek 2y ago
Is this at all informative? I think the fact that we're buying a license goes without saying, it's the terms of said license that matter, so I don't think this adds any useful information. The page really needs to specify all limitations that differ from a physical copy, which would be non-revocable, transferable, worldwide, unlimited in time, geographic location, and method of consumption, etc.
- drdaeman 2y ago
  Not to you and me, but there seem to be a lot of people who don't understand the principle and think they're actually buying a ebook. But - yeah - this is not informative at all. Amazon did the least amount of work necessary to formally comply with those new California requirements (I suspect this is what it's about) about the language on digital licensing. It's something, though. But I agree it would be nice to have a license summary label, like those broadband facts labels or nutritional labels.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    What would actually mean to “buy” an ebook? The concept of ownership doesn’t really make sense for digital goods — no matter how you define it, it will be meaningfully different from owning a physical object.
    - EMIRELADERO 2y ago
      It would simply mean to own an individual digital file, which would only be restricted by copyright law itself, no contracts.
- andybak 2y ago
  Is it really that obvious? I genuinely don't know which services allow a permanent download that will continue to work in perpetuity and those that don't. My understanding of file formats gives me some insight but - I shouldn't need to know that and some smart, technical people don't have that knowledge.
tsujamin 2y ago
You’ve still got a couple days to download (DRM’d) copies of the books before they remove that option! I just finished importing mine in Calibre and converting them all to epub
- agnishom 2y ago
  Why bother? Just download them off of LibGen, and save it on your hard drive. If you have bought them on Amazon, you have already paid off your debt metaphorically and literally
  - galleywest200 2y ago
    Maybe it does not matter, but I paid for _that_ file dammit. I only go to pirate stuff I already paid for if I somehow get locked out of the purchase.
    - nickthegreek 2y ago
      by that time, it could be too late.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    I don't know the details of the law, but I'm morally 100% OK with that. If I bought a copy of a book, I feel completely justified in reading it in whatever format's convenient for me. By analogy if I buy a DVD, I might rip it and watch it on my computer. I don't draw a moral distinction between ripping a copy of that DVD and downloading a ripped copy of it: the end result is a .mov file on my hard drive. Well, same with physical books and epubs. I could morally (and I'm pretty sure legally) scan and OCR that book myself as long as I don't distribute copies of it, so downloading seems to me to be just skipping the labor step in the middle.
- awestroke 2y ago
  How?
  - 2y ago
WillAdams 2y ago
This is the result of a recent law in California: https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/26/24254922/california-digital-purchase-disclosure-law-ab-2426 https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/26/24254922/california-digit...
- ggoo 2y ago
  Thank you California!
- lajy 2y ago
  And it's also the result of policy changes that Amazon is making in a few days: https://www.theverge.com/news/612898/amazon-removing-kindle-book-download-transfer-usb https://www.theverge.com/news/612898/amazon-removing-kindle-... From the article you linked: >The new law won’t apply to stores that offer “permanent offline” downloads Amazon is actively choosing to do this to maintain an even tighter grip on their ecosystem
breck 2y ago
[dead]
GlacierFox 2y ago
I've only bought a few ebooks but even then, I've immediately went and pirated them too to feel like I have something, even though it's only a few hundred kilobytes. I know it's a digital book and I know someone worked really hard on it but when I buy an book from Amazon or some other site which works this way, I feel like I'm buying... nothing. I sometimes buy physical books with the intention of keeping them for when I'm in the mood to read them, sometimes this might be months or even years. But with a digital book delivered with a licence I've always got a niggle in the back of my mind thinking about a digital collection dissappearing or the service becoming obsolete. In regards to non-drm ebooks, the lack of tangibility peeves me slightly but isn't so much an issue as I actually have something I can keep. But licenced ebooks are fugazi, ethereal nothingness existing on the whims of a mega corporation.
- skydhash 2y ago
  I don't mind temporary license if I trust in the business stability. Meaning either I have a minimum period guaranteed by law or the business is not changing the TOS for no reasons. I bought software on Apple's App Store and games on PlayStation Store and I'm fine that I only have a license tied to the existence of my account. But I have limited trust (no real reason) in Amazon regarding to Kindle.
  - xnzakg 2y ago
    Wouldn't be so sure about trusting PlayStation content to be there in a few years: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psvideocontent/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psvideocontent/
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
    Kindle has been around for over a decade. And Amazon is huge. Why the distrust? Honest question. I'm trusting Steam with over 400 games. I don't read a lot of ebooks but I don't see why Amazon would redact something I've paid for.
    - m4rtink 2y ago
edkennedy 2y ago
What doesn’t make sense to me, is there is a more of a need than ever to own copies of the books we read. People will be creating their own RAG of the books they are reading to make use of the knowledge and expand upon the teachings. This way of thinking of licensing is antiquated. I’m sure Amazon will make some “Kindle LLM” but hopefully by then the industry is radically disrupted.
fsckboy 2y ago
>Amazon Now Openly Discloses You’re Buying a License to View Kindle eBooks "disclosure" of information sounds like a good thing, but in terms of contracts, "a disclosure" is actually "a restriction/limitation" that you are agreeing to. This is Amazon "disclosing" that it is you who is not actually buying a copy of something. Yes, it's better for you that limitations are disclosed, but the salient point is the limitation, not the disclosure.
- andybak 2y ago
  At least it creates a situation where any vendor that does offer "true" purchases will stand out. There's a chance for disruption here.
  - izzydata 2y ago
    What would a true purchase of digital content look like? Just the lack of DRM? You could still lose your copy and the company you purchased it from could no longer exist.
    - tredre3 2y ago
      Just like you could lose a physical book or the publisher could disappear? It feels like you're doing some reductio ad absurdum right now... You buy a digital, DRM-free file. It is yours forever. If you lose it (bad storage, malware, deletion), it's gone. It doesn't mean that it wasn't yours. It doesn't mean that anybody owes you a new copy in perpetuity. It doesn't make any of that "fake ownership".
      - izzydata 2y ago
        I'm not making any suggestions I was wondering what people would agree is a good solution. If DRM free is good enough then it is good enough for me.
    - ilikehurdles 2y ago
      The way most online stores let you buy music is drm free. Seems like a no brainer that this is how it works. I mean if I lose my copy of any media I own and the seller that provided isn’t around, that’s on me, right?
odyssey7 2y ago
It would be nice if more physical copies of books came with a sort of passport for all major digital versions.
megadata 2y ago
In other words, Amazon has technically and officially stopped selling Kindle books.
- odo1242 2y ago
  Well, no, they never sold Kindle books, they just decided to say so in fine print under the Buy button rather than in even finer print in the ToS.
Insanity 2y ago
Maybe not a super popular opinion on HN, but this effectively changes nothing for me. I love reading on my kindle, by far the most convenient way to buy and read books for me (esp when traveling often). It’s good that they are now being upfront about it, but it won’t impact my buying behaviour and it won’t for the majority of readers.
- nunodonato 2y ago
  and like that, the frog boils
  - kohbo 2y ago
    "doesn't affect me!" Yet.
- caconym_ 2y ago
  My daughter will grow up with direct access to my entire library of books and all other media, and I'm beginning to think (assuming we have any kind of future beyond current and future crises) that's going to be an enormous advantage for her.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  If you somehow acquired the ePub by some other means, you can still side-load it to your Kindle, correct?
  - dewey 2y ago
    It's not that easy on the latest versions at least through Calibre where there's a very common issue that if your Kindle is connected to wifi it will remove side-loaded books (through a "bug" or something else). There's more info on that issue in many threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Calibre/comments/1g7yt0r/psa_the_new_kindle_2024_are_bad_for_sideloading/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Calibre/comments/1g7yt0r/psa_the_ne...
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    You can literally just email any random ePub to a Kindle and it works. (The cover art is finikey sometimes.)
magospietato 2y ago
This is fine. Text is some of the most free information on the Internet. And I am small enough to be unencumbered by licensing concerns.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hatwd 2y ago
This would only be acceptable if the ebooks cost 5 to 10% of what the physical book costs.
- account42 2y ago
  Wait long enough and you'll get your wish. Not by eBooks getting cheaper of course but by physical books being re-priced as collector's items. Already happened to songs, movies and physical TV show releases.
mark_l_watson 2y ago
Many years ago I started splitting my purchases between Amazon, Google Books, and Apple Books. It is a small nuisance but it felt better than using a single vender. Now I mostly buy from Kobo and labor.fm and many of the books they sell are DRM free. Often the prices are better also.
auraham 2y ago
I have bought books from Amazon and Manning.com, mostly technical books. I have to say, I am so happy with the business model of Manning.com: - they offer good quality books - they also offer a subscription where you can view all books and download one book per month - when you buy a digital book, they give you the book in several formats (kindle and pdf) - you can read the ebook in multiple devices O'Reilly should follow the same business model.
- daveoc64 2y ago
  >O'Reilly should follow the same business model. They used to, but they have their subscription service now. You can still buy O'Reilly books DRM-free from the major ebook sellers.
Whatarethese 2y ago
Unless it's physical and in my possession I will pirate it.
lstodd 2y ago
There was Jim Baen, and he said it all. (also did)
42772827 2y ago
I buy kindle / apple books completely for the convenience factor: formatting, delivery, cloud service and occasional updates. Though, I do wish there were some kind of change log for what they updated.
guelo 2y ago
My dream regulation would be that they can't use the word "buy". Call it license, rent, subscription, etc. but your not buying anything.
wazoox 2y ago
I've only ever bought DRM-less epub (mostly books from John Scalzi and a couple of other authors). I won't pirate, because I refuse any DRM-laden shite as a question of principle.
mvc 2y ago
I can't believe anyone feels the need to buy digital copies of books anymore, especially from companies who have very obviously pirated every copyrighted work in existence as part of their AI offerings.
- paulcole 2y ago
  I spend a few thousand (USD) a year for content on my Kindle. Super convenient, I always have something to read when I want it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - mvc 2y ago
    Sorry, I suppose I meant anyone not living under the yolk of facism. Good for you though for supporting those who prop it up with your hard-earned dollars. Extra points for the Kindle.
nunodonato 2y ago
That's why I always recommend people buy Kobos. far superior product, far superior reading experience, and you get the extra bonus points of not throwing more money at fucking bezos
- amatecha 2y ago
  Yeah, I just got a Clara BW recently - really liking it so far!! My first e-reader. There was no possible way I was going to get Amazon's e-reader.
throwaway48476 2y ago
They should be obligated to offer refunds.
NickC25 2y ago
Support your local bookstore, before they are all gone. Physical copies of books might be tough if space is at a premium, but I love having a bookshelf. I can quickly look back to specific books or chapters or notes or whatever. Plus it gives my guests something to talk about - they can instantly see what I've read and how they can relate to me or my interests.
- magnetowasright 2y ago
  Disclaimer: I've never used this service and I don't know if it lives up to its promises. bookstore.org ebook purchases can support your local (participating) bookstores[0] by a revenue sharing arrangement. Their DRM set up looks dodgy, though? It's not clear whether they use Adobe under the hood or how easy it is to get the files to then DeDRM. Maybe paying for the license (and making sure to nominate a bookstore) through there and making or acquiring a DRM-free copy to keep can be the best of both worlds, at least as far as supporting local bookstores goes. If anyone has experience with bookstore.org I'd love to hear about it [0] https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks
  - themadturk 2y ago
    Bookshop.org is new to the ebook business, but seems to be very popular among authors. Books display in their own app for now, but they promise Kobo integration soon. I purchased a book there recently, then visited my friend Anna so I could put it on my Kobo.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Unless you get some tangible value out of your local bookstore such as it being a 3rd space, locating rare books, etc. etc. I wouldn't bother. If physical books ever start going away it will be because publishers stop selling them entirely and neither Amazon nor your local bookstore will be able to save you.
  - dewey 2y ago
    Independent publishers are a thing and will probably not go away that easily, just like Vinyl and Cassettes still being sold.
muscomposter 2y ago
we are quick owning less and less things all that remains is we become happy. where’s my soma?
outside1234 2y ago
People, buy an EPUB direct and send it to the kindle app or to Apple Books. Do not get locked out of your library.
martinbaun 2y ago
Facebook found the solution to all these shenanigans
znpy 2y ago
never forget: https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/
gcanyon 2y ago
I can't say I predicted this, but this sort of thing is why I bought a kobo instead of a kindle. Of course, for all I know Rakuten is worse than Amazon on this issue, but so far so good...
PakG1 2y ago
Feels relevant to post this here. Guy called it in 2008. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/keep-control-of-your-computing.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/keep-control-of-your-computin...
FpUser 2y ago
Well they can go fuck themselves with their books, Kindles and licenses. Personally I've never had even slightest inclination to "buy" books this way.
cute_boi 2y ago
you can pirate as long as you don't seed.
- npteljes 2y ago
  Highly dependent on the jurisdiction.
xizst94 2y ago
Just another opportunity to remind everyone that every kindle can now be jailbroken.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Amazon should be forced to refund every last Kindle book sold previously, and these “disclosures” (which basically seem like consumer fraud) should be required to be displayed in huge fonts during the purchase process, not fine print.
trentnix 2y ago
Every now and then when I’m lugging around a book or lamenting that my bookshelves are full, I wonder if ebooks and a Kindle would be simpler, better. Then Amazon does something like this and I’m reminded the headaches are worth it.
easterncalculus 2y ago
Looks like Stallman was right, again. https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html
- znpy 2y ago
  he was right all along, since day one, basically. it's a real shame he was basically put away over the last years over completely unrelated issues. unrelated, but on software there was another person that happened to be right, but for unrelated reasons: steve ballmer. he was right: open source software is cancer. because software should really be free (as intended by the free software foundation).
BrenBarn 2y ago
The comments here are an interesting juxtaposition with some other posts on HN today with people arguing about supply and demand and markets. There's plenty of people here saying they're willing to pay for a DRM-free book, and some indications that authors are willing to sell them, but the market won't let that happen because it doesn't leave any room for oligarchs to leech money at every step.
amatecha 2y ago
Will there ever be a "Bandcamp for books"? Or is there already such a thing?
- modernerd 2y ago
  https://leanpub.com/ https://leanpub.com/ is one.
habosa 2y ago
I’ve had a Kindle since the very first model. I’ve bought 380 books for it, so probably like $3000. This recent shift by Amazon ends that. I’m buying a Kobo reader and I’ll be buying all my ebooks from bookshop.org as soon as they launch their (promised) Kobo integration. I understand this may have been how things worked all along, but Amazon making visible changes to reduce my feeling of ownership of my ebooks is a sign of bad things to come and I won’t support it. I already downloaded and de-DRMed my whole Kindle library this week. Took an hour, well worth it.
- ochronus 2y ago
  Same here.
- vaughnegut 2y ago
  For Kobo format ebooks, you can use calibre. There's an extension that automatically converts the files for you when you send to device. On Kobo you also have access to your library and pocket integration. Honestly Kobo feels like the more feature complete device
kelnos 2y ago
This would be more convincing if e-books cost a small fraction of the price of a paperback. I think it would be entirely reasonable for the licensed-only e-book of a $10 paperback to cost just a dollar or two, max. The whole thing is ridiculous anyway; I remember Amazon and others pushing the idea of e-books as a way to get cheaper books (since they don't have to physically print a book and mail it to you), but of course that turned out to be a lie. Occasionally I even see a book's Kindle version that costs more than a physical copy! Whatever, every time I buy a Kindle book I download it to my laptop, strip off the DRM, and keep that copy safe as a backup. (If that starts becoming impossible due to Amazon removing the "download and transfer via USB" option, then I'm going to have to buy my e-books elsewhere going forward. Or just get them from my local public library; at least a library's terms of use are sane.
ochronus 2y ago
Hahahah nope, goodbye Kindle
laxk 2y ago
if paying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.
- npteljes 2y ago
  Renting is a perfectly valid option, if the service provider is being upfront. What's not okay is having a Buy button, but in reality only selling a license that can be revoked.
gloomyday 2y ago
I would like to declare that after sooo many years not touching a torrent, I not only started pirating, but I suggest everyone to do so for all abusive companies and services nowadays. The current state of reality is taking a dark turn, and I will be dammed to just ignore it. So many companies are too powerful, and we suckers have been too nice accepting abuse and obeying laws unilatery. Think of companies like Meta and OpenAI pirating EVERYTHING they can lay their hand on online just to regurgitate to use behind paywalls. Also don't forget OpenAI recently crying foul because DeepSeek did the same to them.
dudefeliciano 2y ago
Thanks Amazon for finally giving me the little push I needed to cancel my account!
soapdog 2y ago
Time for the rest of the world to join us on other eReaders such as Kobo.
Neonlicht 2y ago
"A license to view" For Amazon James!
mowthpeece 2y ago
I have over 1600 Kindle books. I am not now nor have I ever been afraid of losing any books. I've always known I'm buying the ability to READ them, NOT OWN them. Why people are behaving so paranoid and entitled over this fact, is not beyond me, because I know how humans are, but it is embarrassing. It's ignorant at best, narcissistic at worst. You didn't write the books. You're DON'T OWN THEM. Never did.
account42 2y ago
As long as the button says "Buy" that's the standard you shoulb be held to. We can't have companies selling you one thing and then hide in the fine print that you're getting something completely different.

467 points by DavideNL 2y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago

the flag flies high and the seas are smoother than they've ever been.

9dev 2y ago
Anchoring in Port Anna, are ye, or are there any other exciting harbours to set sails to, fellow adventurer?
- RedCardRef 2y ago
  The ePub comes from Port Anna, then a quick sanity check via EPUB FIX [1] then finally to the official amazon.com/sendtokindle All of the above if you want a wireless experience, you can just use Calibre and plug in the reader via USB for a smoother experience. [1] https://kindle-epub-fix.netlify.app/ https://kindle-epub-fix.netlify.app/
  - homebrewer 2y ago
    Or better yet, jailbreak your kindle before the hole is closed, install koreader, and read epub natively. It's a much better reader compared to the built-in one anyway. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - simonklitj 2y ago
      And you can send straight to the Kindle from Calibre via WiFi, no need for /sendtokindle.
  - alkh 2y ago
    Thanks for the useful link! I guess I am being overly paranoid, but I always also add a virus total check on top of it to make sure the file is clean [1] [1] https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
  - exe34 2y ago
    /sendtokindle seems a bit brave if you obtained your epub off the back of a lorry..
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    KOReader + Calibre is also fully wireless. Get a Kobo, not a Swindle.
- SSLy 2y ago
  Myanonamouse
chrisblackwell 2y ago
Interesting quote.
shepherdjerred 2y ago
Oh what I’d pay for a 100% legal version of Plex (e.g. allows me to easily buy and stream my media)
- caseyy 2y ago
  Someone should create a video streaming service with a vast catalog. That'd attract all the subscribers even at a higher subscription cost, and they'd surely be able to pay their licensing fees. So long as they don't need to grow infinitely for their shareholders and enshittify their offerings, it will be a sustainable and profitable business[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
abenga 2y ago
Libgen has been down for a couple of months. It seems the seas are getting a bit choppy.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. Plenty of the domains are online.
  - abenga 2y ago
    Not really. Look at open-slum, libgen is uniformly red. Maybe some domains that share the name are operating, but none that provide the same interface, with downloadable files.

chomp 2y ago

I don’t think I would ever buy an e-book. It makes no sense to me. If I want a copy for my personal collection I’ll keep it in hardcover. Otherwise I’ll just use Libby and check it out when it becomes available. There are cases where I will toss an independent author a few dollars in exchange to read their book, but there’s no way I would ever pay Amazon or another publisher.

lolinder 2y ago
I really want to find a good way to buy DRM-free ebooks. Libby was great early on and is still fine, but at least in my library system the wait times for a lot of titles are measured in months. I know some people make this work by just having a queue that's constantly cycling, but I don't read print books (as opposed to audiobooks) like that. There's only a subset of all books that I would ever want in print at all, and when I want them I want them for a specific purpose (to consult for a quote or something) now, not months from now. Purchased ebooks fill that role, but I'm only interested in buying if they're DRM-free.
- InsideOutSanta 2y ago
  Some publishers sell DRM-free e-books directly on their website. This is the best way to buy books, because it grants the greatest amount of money to the original author.
- WolfeReader 2y ago
  If you browse on Kobo, each book will tell you if it's DRM-free or not. Lots of small publishers will also sell books directly from their website, DRM-free in my experience. And Humble Bundle book collections are DRM free too.
  - corney91 2y ago
    > And Humble Bundle book collections are DRM free too. Not all of them. I've had at least one bundle where you redeem it via the Kobo store for DRMed ePubs. Most I've got via Humble Bundle have been DRM-free though.

IshKebab 2y ago

It's ok boys, now you're allowed to pirate all books ever published as long as you don't seed.

phony-account 2y ago
Almost the worst thing about Amazon and this gouging way of renting books is that it ‘legitimizes’ piracy. My partner works in publishing and we know a lot of authors. If you think piracy is going to sustain that industry and give you and your children books to read in the years and decades to come, you’re very mistaken.
- DetroitThrow 2y ago
  Plenty of books I've tried to purchase epub or PDFs of only have Kindle rental versions. If the publishers of these authors wanted me to let me own a PDF, I'd gladly purchase, but until they actually do that I have several easy alternatives to getting sucked into Amazon's ridiculous ecosystem. And this is a larger subset of books I want to buy than I would want, surprisingly.
  - jazz9k 2y ago
    I say the same thing about GNU licensed software: if the author just gave me my preferred licensing terms, I wouldn't be forced to use it in proprietary software without compenstion.
    - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
      How is pirating books to read them by myself comparable to proactively selling other people's work?
      - drawkward 2y ago
        Neither belonged to you in the first place.

1over137 2y ago

Where's a good place to pirate audio books these days? Is bittorrent still where it's at?

choilive 2y ago
Doesnt directly answer the question, but nowadays there are good and free TTS that will essentially turn your entire ebook to an audiobook. (Elevenlabs Reader for example)
- agnishom 2y ago
  Doesn't directly relate to your comment, But I hate ElevenLabs for purchasing Omnivore and shutting it down.
  - NetOpWibby 2y ago
    Same way I feel about HP for doing the same to Palm
- dharmab 2y ago
  I like these tools for content where no narration exists (especially for proofreading my own writing) but they aren't anywhere near as good as a good human narrator. e.g: https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?t=103 https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?t=103
rhamzeh 2y ago
For audiobooks, instead of pirating I would recommend https://libro.fm https://libro.fm - you can buy them DRM free and they donate part of the proceeds to your library of choice.
UlisesAC4 2y ago
Basically torrent is the best option, check readarr.
megadata 2y ago
I heard a bloke at the pub mention audiobookbay dot various TLDs. I have no idea if that's true or not.

arnaudsm 2y ago

That button should say "Rent this book". Claiming you can "Buy this book" is a lie and false advertising.

devoutsalsa 2y ago
alias book="license"
Espressosaurus 2y ago
Yeah. I "bought" a Kindle copy of There Will Be War awhile back to get access to a few of the short stories in the collection. After reading about how they're taking away downloads I went and downloaded all of my books and found that at some point they must have lost the license to that book because I no longer had access to it. Love it when my "purchases" can be taken away from me with no recourse. edit: and I was never even informed that the book had been taken away. It just is there in my collection with a few invalid characters at the front of the title and no cover picture. The link goes to a page that doesn't exist. And searching for it shows only paper copies now by third parties. So I know this isn't just a bug in the system.
- daveoc64 2y ago
  This does not happen with the Kindle Store. Anything you've purchased will remain in your library unless: 1) You delete it (which can happen by accident, due to some bad UX). If you have done this, you can contact Amazon Support and they can re-add it to your library for free. It's not possible to delete your purchase history on the Amazon website, and that includes all Kindle books. Whenever I've seen people claim that digital content has gone from their Amazon account, it always turns out to be either: a) They didn't buy it on Amazon in the first place. b) They bought it on a different Amazon account.
  - caconym_ 2y ago
    > This does not happen with the Kindle Store. It has, in fact, happened: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am... Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it has happened, and it's a great example of why having your books (or any media) locked up in a walled garden is a terrible idea. (though this is far from being the only objectionable angle)

dns_snek 2y ago

Is this at all informative? I think the fact that we're buying a license goes without saying, it's the terms of said license that matter, so I don't think this adds any useful information. The page really needs to specify all limitations that differ from a physical copy, which would be non-revocable, transferable, worldwide, unlimited in time, geographic location, and method of consumption, etc.

drdaeman 2y ago
Not to you and me, but there seem to be a lot of people who don't understand the principle and think they're actually buying a ebook. But - yeah - this is not informative at all. Amazon did the least amount of work necessary to formally comply with those new California requirements (I suspect this is what it's about) about the language on digital licensing. It's something, though. But I agree it would be nice to have a license summary label, like those broadband facts labels or nutritional labels.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  What would actually mean to “buy” an ebook? The concept of ownership doesn’t really make sense for digital goods — no matter how you define it, it will be meaningfully different from owning a physical object.
  - EMIRELADERO 2y ago
    It would simply mean to own an individual digital file, which would only be restricted by copyright law itself, no contracts.
andybak 2y ago
Is it really that obvious? I genuinely don't know which services allow a permanent download that will continue to work in perpetuity and those that don't. My understanding of file formats gives me some insight but - I shouldn't need to know that and some smart, technical people don't have that knowledge.

tsujamin 2y ago

You’ve still got a couple days to download (DRM’d) copies of the books before they remove that option! I just finished importing mine in Calibre and converting them all to epub

agnishom 2y ago
Why bother? Just download them off of LibGen, and save it on your hard drive. If you have bought them on Amazon, you have already paid off your debt metaphorically and literally
- galleywest200 2y ago
  Maybe it does not matter, but I paid for _that_ file dammit. I only go to pirate stuff I already paid for if I somehow get locked out of the purchase.
  - nickthegreek 2y ago
    by that time, it could be too late.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  I don't know the details of the law, but I'm morally 100% OK with that. If I bought a copy of a book, I feel completely justified in reading it in whatever format's convenient for me. By analogy if I buy a DVD, I might rip it and watch it on my computer. I don't draw a moral distinction between ripping a copy of that DVD and downloading a ripped copy of it: the end result is a .mov file on my hard drive. Well, same with physical books and epubs. I could morally (and I'm pretty sure legally) scan and OCR that book myself as long as I don't distribute copies of it, so downloading seems to me to be just skipping the labor step in the middle.
awestroke 2y ago
How?
- 2y ago

WillAdams 2y ago

This is the result of a recent law in California: https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/26/24254922/california-digital-purchase-disclosure-law-ab-2426 https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/26/24254922/california-digit...

ggoo 2y ago
Thank you California!
lajy 2y ago
And it's also the result of policy changes that Amazon is making in a few days: https://www.theverge.com/news/612898/amazon-removing-kindle-book-download-transfer-usb https://www.theverge.com/news/612898/amazon-removing-kindle-... From the article you linked: >The new law won’t apply to stores that offer “permanent offline” downloads Amazon is actively choosing to do this to maintain an even tighter grip on their ecosystem

breck 2y ago

[dead]

GlacierFox 2y ago

I've only bought a few ebooks but even then, I've immediately went and pirated them too to feel like I have something, even though it's only a few hundred kilobytes. I know it's a digital book and I know someone worked really hard on it but when I buy an book from Amazon or some other site which works this way, I feel like I'm buying... nothing. I sometimes buy physical books with the intention of keeping them for when I'm in the mood to read them, sometimes this might be months or even years. But with a digital book delivered with a licence I've always got a niggle in the back of my mind thinking about a digital collection dissappearing or the service becoming obsolete. In regards to non-drm ebooks, the lack of tangibility peeves me slightly but isn't so much an issue as I actually have something I can keep. But licenced ebooks are fugazi, ethereal nothingness existing on the whims of a mega corporation.

skydhash 2y ago
I don't mind temporary license if I trust in the business stability. Meaning either I have a minimum period guaranteed by law or the business is not changing the TOS for no reasons. I bought software on Apple's App Store and games on PlayStation Store and I'm fine that I only have a license tied to the existence of my account. But I have limited trust (no real reason) in Amazon regarding to Kindle.
- xnzakg 2y ago
  Wouldn't be so sure about trusting PlayStation content to be there in a few years: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psvideocontent/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psvideocontent/
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
  Kindle has been around for over a decade. And Amazon is huge. Why the distrust? Honest question. I'm trusting Steam with over 400 games. I don't read a lot of ebooks but I don't see why Amazon would redact something I've paid for.
  - m4rtink 2y ago

edkennedy 2y ago

What doesn’t make sense to me, is there is a more of a need than ever to own copies of the books we read. People will be creating their own RAG of the books they are reading to make use of the knowledge and expand upon the teachings. This way of thinking of licensing is antiquated. I’m sure Amazon will make some “Kindle LLM” but hopefully by then the industry is radically disrupted.

fsckboy 2y ago

>Amazon Now Openly Discloses You’re Buying a License to View Kindle eBooks "disclosure" of information sounds like a good thing, but in terms of contracts, "a disclosure" is actually "a restriction/limitation" that you are agreeing to. This is Amazon "disclosing" that it is you who is not actually buying a copy of something. Yes, it's better for you that limitations are disclosed, but the salient point is the limitation, not the disclosure.

andybak 2y ago
At least it creates a situation where any vendor that does offer "true" purchases will stand out. There's a chance for disruption here.
- izzydata 2y ago
  What would a true purchase of digital content look like? Just the lack of DRM? You could still lose your copy and the company you purchased it from could no longer exist.
  - tredre3 2y ago
    Just like you could lose a physical book or the publisher could disappear? It feels like you're doing some reductio ad absurdum right now... You buy a digital, DRM-free file. It is yours forever. If you lose it (bad storage, malware, deletion), it's gone. It doesn't mean that it wasn't yours. It doesn't mean that anybody owes you a new copy in perpetuity. It doesn't make any of that "fake ownership".
    - izzydata 2y ago
      I'm not making any suggestions I was wondering what people would agree is a good solution. If DRM free is good enough then it is good enough for me.
  - ilikehurdles 2y ago
    The way most online stores let you buy music is drm free. Seems like a no brainer that this is how it works. I mean if I lose my copy of any media I own and the seller that provided isn’t around, that’s on me, right?

odyssey7 2y ago

It would be nice if more physical copies of books came with a sort of passport for all major digital versions.

megadata 2y ago

In other words, Amazon has technically and officially stopped selling Kindle books.

odo1242 2y ago
Well, no, they never sold Kindle books, they just decided to say so in fine print under the Buy button rather than in even finer print in the ToS.

Insanity 2y ago

Maybe not a super popular opinion on HN, but this effectively changes nothing for me. I love reading on my kindle, by far the most convenient way to buy and read books for me (esp when traveling often). It’s good that they are now being upfront about it, but it won’t impact my buying behaviour and it won’t for the majority of readers.

nunodonato 2y ago
and like that, the frog boils
- kohbo 2y ago
  "doesn't affect me!" Yet.
caconym_ 2y ago
My daughter will grow up with direct access to my entire library of books and all other media, and I'm beginning to think (assuming we have any kind of future beyond current and future crises) that's going to be an enormous advantage for her.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
If you somehow acquired the ePub by some other means, you can still side-load it to your Kindle, correct?
- dewey 2y ago
  It's not that easy on the latest versions at least through Calibre where there's a very common issue that if your Kindle is connected to wifi it will remove side-loaded books (through a "bug" or something else). There's more info on that issue in many threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Calibre/comments/1g7yt0r/psa_the_new_kindle_2024_are_bad_for_sideloading/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Calibre/comments/1g7yt0r/psa_the_ne...
- Mindwipe 2y ago
  You can literally just email any random ePub to a Kindle and it works. (The cover art is finikey sometimes.)

magospietato 2y ago

This is fine. Text is some of the most free information on the Internet. And I am small enough to be unencumbered by licensing concerns.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

hatwd 2y ago

This would only be acceptable if the ebooks cost 5 to 10% of what the physical book costs.

account42 2y ago
Wait long enough and you'll get your wish. Not by eBooks getting cheaper of course but by physical books being re-priced as collector's items. Already happened to songs, movies and physical TV show releases.

mark_l_watson 2y ago

Many years ago I started splitting my purchases between Amazon, Google Books, and Apple Books. It is a small nuisance but it felt better than using a single vender. Now I mostly buy from Kobo and labor.fm and many of the books they sell are DRM free. Often the prices are better also.

auraham 2y ago

I have bought books from Amazon and Manning.com, mostly technical books. I have to say, I am so happy with the business model of Manning.com: - they offer good quality books - they also offer a subscription where you can view all books and download one book per month - when you buy a digital book, they give you the book in several formats (kindle and pdf) - you can read the ebook in multiple devices O'Reilly should follow the same business model.

daveoc64 2y ago
>O'Reilly should follow the same business model. They used to, but they have their subscription service now. You can still buy O'Reilly books DRM-free from the major ebook sellers.

Whatarethese 2y ago

Unless it's physical and in my possession I will pirate it.

lstodd 2y ago

There was Jim Baen, and he said it all. (also did)

42772827 2y ago

I buy kindle / apple books completely for the convenience factor: formatting, delivery, cloud service and occasional updates. Though, I do wish there were some kind of change log for what they updated.

guelo 2y ago

My dream regulation would be that they can't use the word "buy". Call it license, rent, subscription, etc. but your not buying anything.

wazoox 2y ago

I've only ever bought DRM-less epub (mostly books from John Scalzi and a couple of other authors). I won't pirate, because I refuse any DRM-laden shite as a question of principle.

mvc 2y ago

I can't believe anyone feels the need to buy digital copies of books anymore, especially from companies who have very obviously pirated every copyrighted work in existence as part of their AI offerings.

paulcole 2y ago
I spend a few thousand (USD) a year for content on my Kindle. Super convenient, I always have something to read when I want it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mvc 2y ago
  Sorry, I suppose I meant anyone not living under the yolk of facism. Good for you though for supporting those who prop it up with your hard-earned dollars. Extra points for the Kindle.

nunodonato 2y ago

That's why I always recommend people buy Kobos. far superior product, far superior reading experience, and you get the extra bonus points of not throwing more money at fucking bezos

amatecha 2y ago
Yeah, I just got a Clara BW recently - really liking it so far!! My first e-reader. There was no possible way I was going to get Amazon's e-reader.

throwaway48476 2y ago

They should be obligated to offer refunds.

NickC25 2y ago

Support your local bookstore, before they are all gone. Physical copies of books might be tough if space is at a premium, but I love having a bookshelf. I can quickly look back to specific books or chapters or notes or whatever. Plus it gives my guests something to talk about - they can instantly see what I've read and how they can relate to me or my interests.

magnetowasright 2y ago
Disclaimer: I've never used this service and I don't know if it lives up to its promises. bookstore.org ebook purchases can support your local (participating) bookstores[0] by a revenue sharing arrangement. Their DRM set up looks dodgy, though? It's not clear whether they use Adobe under the hood or how easy it is to get the files to then DeDRM. Maybe paying for the license (and making sure to nominate a bookstore) through there and making or acquiring a DRM-free copy to keep can be the best of both worlds, at least as far as supporting local bookstores goes. If anyone has experience with bookstore.org I'd love to hear about it [0] https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks
- themadturk 2y ago
  Bookshop.org is new to the ebook business, but seems to be very popular among authors. Books display in their own app for now, but they promise Kobo integration soon. I purchased a book there recently, then visited my friend Anna so I could put it on my Kobo.
Spivak 2y ago
Unless you get some tangible value out of your local bookstore such as it being a 3rd space, locating rare books, etc. etc. I wouldn't bother. If physical books ever start going away it will be because publishers stop selling them entirely and neither Amazon nor your local bookstore will be able to save you.
- dewey 2y ago
  Independent publishers are a thing and will probably not go away that easily, just like Vinyl and Cassettes still being sold.

muscomposter 2y ago

we are quick owning less and less things all that remains is we become happy. where’s my soma?

outside1234 2y ago

People, buy an EPUB direct and send it to the kindle app or to Apple Books. Do not get locked out of your library.

martinbaun 2y ago

Facebook found the solution to all these shenanigans

znpy 2y ago

never forget: https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/

gcanyon 2y ago

I can't say I predicted this, but this sort of thing is why I bought a kobo instead of a kindle. Of course, for all I know Rakuten is worse than Amazon on this issue, but so far so good...

PakG1 2y ago

Feels relevant to post this here. Guy called it in 2008. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/keep-control-of-your-computing.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/keep-control-of-your-computin...

FpUser 2y ago

Well they can go fuck themselves with their books, Kindles and licenses. Personally I've never had even slightest inclination to "buy" books this way.

cute_boi 2y ago

you can pirate as long as you don't seed.

npteljes 2y ago
Highly dependent on the jurisdiction.

xizst94 2y ago

Just another opportunity to remind everyone that every kindle can now be jailbroken.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Amazon should be forced to refund every last Kindle book sold previously, and these “disclosures” (which basically seem like consumer fraud) should be required to be displayed in huge fonts during the purchase process, not fine print.

trentnix 2y ago

Every now and then when I’m lugging around a book or lamenting that my bookshelves are full, I wonder if ebooks and a Kindle would be simpler, better. Then Amazon does something like this and I’m reminded the headaches are worth it.

easterncalculus 2y ago

Looks like Stallman was right, again. https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html https://www.stallman.org/amazon.html

znpy 2y ago
he was right all along, since day one, basically. it's a real shame he was basically put away over the last years over completely unrelated issues. unrelated, but on software there was another person that happened to be right, but for unrelated reasons: steve ballmer. he was right: open source software is cancer. because software should really be free (as intended by the free software foundation).

BrenBarn 2y ago

The comments here are an interesting juxtaposition with some other posts on HN today with people arguing about supply and demand and markets. There's plenty of people here saying they're willing to pay for a DRM-free book, and some indications that authors are willing to sell them, but the market won't let that happen because it doesn't leave any room for oligarchs to leech money at every step.

amatecha 2y ago

Will there ever be a "Bandcamp for books"? Or is there already such a thing?

modernerd 2y ago
https://leanpub.com/ https://leanpub.com/ is one.

habosa 2y ago

I’ve had a Kindle since the very first model. I’ve bought 380 books for it, so probably like $3000. This recent shift by Amazon ends that. I’m buying a Kobo reader and I’ll be buying all my ebooks from bookshop.org as soon as they launch their (promised) Kobo integration. I understand this may have been how things worked all along, but Amazon making visible changes to reduce my feeling of ownership of my ebooks is a sign of bad things to come and I won’t support it. I already downloaded and de-DRMed my whole Kindle library this week. Took an hour, well worth it.

ochronus 2y ago
Same here.
vaughnegut 2y ago
For Kobo format ebooks, you can use calibre. There's an extension that automatically converts the files for you when you send to device. On Kobo you also have access to your library and pocket integration. Honestly Kobo feels like the more feature complete device

kelnos 2y ago

This would be more convincing if e-books cost a small fraction of the price of a paperback. I think it would be entirely reasonable for the licensed-only e-book of a $10 paperback to cost just a dollar or two, max. The whole thing is ridiculous anyway; I remember Amazon and others pushing the idea of e-books as a way to get cheaper books (since they don't have to physically print a book and mail it to you), but of course that turned out to be a lie. Occasionally I even see a book's Kindle version that costs more than a physical copy! Whatever, every time I buy a Kindle book I download it to my laptop, strip off the DRM, and keep that copy safe as a backup. (If that starts becoming impossible due to Amazon removing the "download and transfer via USB" option, then I'm going to have to buy my e-books elsewhere going forward. Or just get them from my local public library; at least a library's terms of use are sane.

ochronus 2y ago

Hahahah nope, goodbye Kindle

laxk 2y ago

if paying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.

npteljes 2y ago
Renting is a perfectly valid option, if the service provider is being upfront. What's not okay is having a Buy button, but in reality only selling a license that can be revoked.

gloomyday 2y ago

I would like to declare that after sooo many years not touching a torrent, I not only started pirating, but I suggest everyone to do so for all abusive companies and services nowadays. The current state of reality is taking a dark turn, and I will be dammed to just ignore it. So many companies are too powerful, and we suckers have been too nice accepting abuse and obeying laws unilatery. Think of companies like Meta and OpenAI pirating EVERYTHING they can lay their hand on online just to regurgitate to use behind paywalls. Also don't forget OpenAI recently crying foul because DeepSeek did the same to them.

dudefeliciano 2y ago

Thanks Amazon for finally giving me the little push I needed to cancel my account!

soapdog 2y ago

Time for the rest of the world to join us on other eReaders such as Kobo.

Neonlicht 2y ago

"A license to view" For Amazon James!

mowthpeece 2y ago

I have over 1600 Kindle books. I am not now nor have I ever been afraid of losing any books. I've always known I'm buying the ability to READ them, NOT OWN them. Why people are behaving so paranoid and entitled over this fact, is not beyond me, because I know how humans are, but it is embarrassing. It's ignorant at best, narcissistic at worst. You didn't write the books. You're DON'T OWN THEM. Never did.

account42 2y ago

As long as the button says "Buy" that's the standard you shoulb be held to. We can't have companies selling you one thing and then hide in the fine print that you're getting something completely different.