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Larry Ellison: vast AI surveillance can ensure citizens are on best behavior (2024)
- djsedaw 2y agoWell he can f right off!
- archagon 2y agohttps://archive.is/qqhCj https://archive.is/qqhCj
- pavel_lishin 2y ago> "We're going to have supervision," Ellison said. "Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person." I gotta say, I know that billionaires live in their own private world - in many sense of the word - but this is just wildly naive.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoI don’t think so. The billionaires found a way to control the population. All they had to do was to become the government and have sufficient tech. If Stazi and KGB had the tech we have today, we’d be still having DDR,Warsaw Pact, and Iron Curtain. Ellison speaks the future. Quoting Mike Tyson „and whatcha gonna do 'bout it”. Ellison even has a database and a programming language he’d like to sell you to make that happen.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- DomesticMouse 2y agoThe funny part about this is that even with all this technology the USSR would still have fallen, because Russia is a poor country geographically. Conformance enforcement only gets you more of the same behaviour. It denies access to variation that engenders innovation. Exploration vs exploitation.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Russia is a poor country geographically Leviathan vs Behemoth. Russia could be a strong land power, à la Rome. America is a maritime power, ruling via alliances and trade, à la Carthage. (Or Athens. Or the British or Dutch.)
- FridgeSeal 2y agoI wish they would go and live in their own private world and leave the rest of us alone, instead of trying to inflict something that the Stasi-would-be-proud-of on the rest of us.
- FrankWilhoit 2y agoYou first, Larry. Else you have no credibility and no standing.
- moralestapia 2y ago[flagged]
- WheelsAtLarge 2y agoIf I didn't know better I would think this is an Onion article. Unfortunately, he's not the only powerful man who feels this way.
- EA-3167 2y agoThe obsession with control has been a preoccupation of the elite for a VERY long time. The idea that we're just a few cameras away from the perfect panopticon i a surprisingly dangerous and common delusion, especially given the ample evidence that it doesn't work. Look at the UK, where handguns are rare, knives are illegal to supply to under-18's, there are cameras EVERYWHERE... and they still have frequent stabbings. With kitchen knives. And yeah they catch it on camera, but they didn't prevent it.
- walterbell 2y agoOptional membership in Club-Invisible-to-Surveillance, based on social credit, faction, status or other "predictive" criteria.
- daft_pink 2y agoWhen is the next season of Black Mirror? We desperately need it.
- panzi 2y agoWe are already in it.
- yakaccount4 2y agoDoes Larry really lack enough self awareness to not realize these kind of statements make him sound like an orwellian super villain, or perhaps he does and simply does not care? The latter is surely more frightening.
- ozim 2y agoDon’t make a mistake of anthropomorphising Larry Ellison.
- blipvert 2y agoHe hates that.
- speed_spread 2y agoA lawnmower doesn't hate the grass.
- archagon 2y agoThe oligarchs have now realized that nothing is going to stop them, so the masks are coming off. How long until corporations start organizing their own private militias, I wonder?
- jaggederest 2y agoNegative sixty eight years[1]. Oh, you didn't mean the private military contractors, of which there were about 250k involved in the iraq and afghanistan war, slightly more in total than deployed troops at any given time. Many ultra-high-net-worth individuals hire them. It's no secret, they've been doing it since the 60s when kidnap and ransom insurance started being a serious thing, and it's only intensified over time. There was an interesting "bolt hole" real estate listing that claimed years supply of food, water, housing etc. for a "company sized group of security contractors" as an amenity. [1] G4S, the largest PMC company, founded in 1957
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- Delk 2y agoArs Technica article with a link to video records of the Oracle financial meeting: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnipresent-ai-cameras-will-ensure-good-behavior-says-larry-ellison/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnip...
- baal80spam 2y agoHow could he even say this with a straight face?
- prawn 2y agoBecause he foresees it, believes it and will profit from it?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rainworld 2y agoCIA-Larry has been representing and pushing these ideas for a long time: https://chroniclesmagazine.org/view/larry-ellisons-golden-age/ https://chroniclesmagazine.org/view/larry-ellisons-golden-ag... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Information_Awareness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Information_Awareness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core
- black_13 2y ago[dead]
- slackfan 2y agoAt least he's open about his intentions.
- timoth3y 2y ago> "We're going to have supervision," Ellison said. I literally read that as "supervillain" when I first read it.
- beng-nl 2y agoThe lawnmower wants to use vast AI surveillance on the blades of grass. Do not anthropomorphize the lawnmower.
- jiggawatts 2y agoThis is a reference to the infamous rant by Bryan M. Cantrill after Sun was acquired by Oracle: https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=1982 https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=1982
- qzw 2y agoThe modern super billionaire is so rich that only complete societal collapse or being personally targeted by a state-level entity can threaten their basically never-ending wealth and power. That's why they all have built bunkers on various islands in the world and have kissed the rings of whichever political leaders that look the most likely to threaten their position and/or life. If some of these leaders are also going to give them more money for their services, then that's just another good transaction for them. Anyone can sell their soul for a price. It takes a billionaire to sell it over and over for an ever increasing return.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> modern super billionaire is so rich that only complete societal collapse or being personally targeted by a state-level entity can threaten their basically never-ending wealth and power Plenty of billionaires have gone to jail or gone bankrupt. > Anyone can sell their soul for a price But not for any price. Anyone who thinks they could build an Apple or Microsoft or even Oracle is probably not being honest about their own limitations.
- threeseed 2y agoFine. But let’s also make sure that there is no indemnity for AI companies. And that we pass laws to make it that systemic mis-identification should be classed as criminal negligence. Just to ensure everyone is on their best behaviour and not overstating the reliability of AI.
- pseudalopex 2y agoNot fine.
- nemo44x 2y agoObviously technology will continue to affect society as it has today and always had. I don’t know why people here are freaking out. It’s how it always has and will be. But you’re missing the key phrase - “best behavior”. This is the political part that gets fought over.
- rhinoceraptor 2y agoEvery important social reform in history has violated unjust laws. Do you want to live in a society where social reform is not possible?
- nemo44x 2y agoImportant to who? What specifically has been good about them and what was unjust about which specific laws? Sounds like victor writing history. I want to live in a society where bad behavior isn’t incentivized.
- pseudalopex 2y ago> Important to who? What specifically has been good about them and what was unjust about which specific laws? Sounds like victor writing history. the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"[1] I think you know what is unjust about slavery. Dictatorship. Apartheid. Disenfranchisement of women. > I want to live in a society where bad behavior isn’t incentivized. Oppression is bad behavior. Protest is not. [1] https://x.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 https://x.com/dril/status/473265809079693312
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nemo44x 2y agoYeah that’s my point - bad behavior is what’s agreed upon to be bad. Hopefully AI can disincentivize the things you point out as bad. That’s the politics of it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago(2024) Discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41562750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41562750
- yibg 2y agoSo he wants the US to become more like China. Got it.
- Juliate 2y agoThat is not what “citizens” means or are supposed to be. He does not understand or want citizenship, he wants peons.
- prng2021 2y agoHilarious. This is from his wikipedia page: “in 2019 a $1 billion lawsuit was filed against several Israel supporters, including Ellison. The lawsuit accused Ellison and others of conspiring to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Israeli-occupied territories, committing war crimes, and funding genocide.”
- mr90210 2y agoUnfortunately I am very pessimistic about the future of AI surveillance, its promises are way too compelling for the layperson understand its second order effect over time. Europe is slowly but surely pushing for it as well.
- unethical_ban 2y agoWe're going to shift from merely recording everyone's movements in public, to identifying and analyzing each individual in real time and doing behavioral analysis. Laws need to stop that from happening. Maybe some states will be better than others.
- joshdavham 2y agoThis might sound overly paranoid to some, but I think that most developed nations are actually at risk of becoming surveillance states in the future. The technology is already here, and there would also be clear upsides, especially for private citizens trying to protect themselves, but the end result is that we end up in a surveillance state. Arguably, we may already be in one.
- ashoeafoot 2y agochina has it and is still destabilizing. Such systemd can work if its a panopticon of all on all, but they do not work if centralized and in service to a few.
- timewizard 2y agoYou have been since the 1960s. The NSA and CIA entitled itself to intercept and read mail of United States citizens sent or received from foreign countries. The NSA built room 641A and captured traffic in the bulk with very wide filters. There is a data center in Utah which stores all of our cellular telephone call and message "metadata."
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> You have been since the 1960s. The NSA and CIA entitled itself to intercept and read mail of United States citizens sent or received from foreign countries. Every country has has this ability for much longer.
- timewizard 2y agoI can't speak to that. What I can say is that this activity is absolutely illegal according to the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> What I can say is that this activity is absolutely illegal according to the Constitution and the laws of the United States The problem with this statement is it's historically inaccurate. Cops have been pilfering through suspects' things with no reason since the dawn of our republic. (Landowners, on the other hand, could stand their ground.) The better argument is we have advanced enough that this should be illegal.
- mrtksn 2y agoif you actually look at the numbers, The billionaires are by far the most criminal types. Almost all of them are either convicts or have paid hush money for sexual assault or similar. No other demographics comes even close. Maybe presidents with about %12 being convicts. Full surveillance should be installed to every single billionaire. AI can really help us to reduce criminality and keep billionaires in best behavior.
- notatoad 2y agowell, it certainly sounds like we'll all be better off with him in charge of tiktok.
- yapyap 2y agoBefore clicking I was like “is this dude stupid?” but I clicked on the article I see that Larry Ellison is a billionaire, of course he wants AI surveillance for his workers. I doubt he’ll let this AI he is thinking of surveill him though. Awful idea, don’t think again.
- quesera 2y ago> I see that Larry Ellison is a billionaire It's more instructive to think of Larry Ellison as the lawnmower in the billionaire salad.
- sys_64738 2y agoThis applies to the great unwashed only, and not the rich, posh toffs like Larry.
- generic92034 2y agoOh, it might also be for some of the rich, if they oppose the rulers.
- timewizard 2y ago> "We're going to have supervision," Ellison said. "Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, Nothing will happen. They're supervised currently and many carry body cameras. The public is entitled to complain about their behavior and there is an internal affairs unit. If none of this is currently working then simply turning up you observations will likewise do nothing. > Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on. That's not how human citizens work. It's hard to believe that someone so well connected can project such parochial and theocratic false ideas about the world. > Ellison also expects AI drones to replace police cars in high-speed chases. "You just have a drone follow the car," Ellison said. "It's very simple in the age of autonomous drones." Larry, the reason we chase people, is because they can get to a location and further victimize people. Knowing where they are is half the battle, the other half is going there and getting them into custody. The demented mind of a spoiled child. This is what happens to you when you refuse to compete and instead lean into your state connections to earn your lifestyle. Disgusting, really.
- mac3n 2y agos/citizen/subject/
- asdefghyk 2y agoWould Larry benefit from "vast AI-fueled surveillance system can ensure 'citizens will be on their best behavior'" Would his companies sell products or services needed .....
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tetrisgm 2y agoPathetic man wants to monetize your rights to privacy. Will use big words to make it sound ok.
- animitronix 2y agoDude can move to China if this is the society he wants to live in.
- spencerflem 2y agoHe's being given 500 billion dollars to build it here :c
- mrcsharp 2y agoDo not fall into the trap of anthropomorphising Larry Ellison. > https://youtube.com/watch?t=1980&v=-zRN7XLCRhc https://youtube.com/watch?t=1980&v=-zRN7XLCRhc
- dh2022 2y agoAnd of course Oracle will provide the software.
- TrackerFF 2y agoSo, social credit system then?
- Havoc 2y agoMore importantly oracle will be able to count your cores better
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago"Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on." What about non-citizens.
- caseyy 2y agoAh yes, the torment nexus. https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538 https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538
- adfm 2y agoYou could just as easily say that Elba was a private island.