17 ms·

Before Squid Game, there was Battle Royale

224 points by ecliptik 2y ago

benreesman 2y ago
I’d recommend anyone to learn about: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusako_Shigenobu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusako_Shigenobu Hijacking a plane to North Korea is pretty fucking savage.
forgotoldacc 2y ago
And before Battle Royale, there was Kaiji. It's identical. People with debt invited to a game and a chance at loads of cash. People die in the game and some get enslaved. Rich people sit in another room and laugh while they watch people suffer. There's even a game where the "contestants" walk high up and fall to their deaths. Then the main character gets called back into the game and you get a season 2.
- dudisubekti 2y ago
  Yeah I don't understand why people make the connection between Squid Games and Battle Royale. Hunger Games is the one closer to Battle Royale, while Squid Games is just Kaiji with better presentation.
  - echelon 2y ago
    That's the correct analogy and chronology. Another one is Ready Player One borrowed from Sword Art Online, which borrowed from .hack, which borrowed from Serial Experiments Lain, which drew upon a rich pantheon of cyberpunk novels.
    - macleginn 2y ago
      If we're talking about the movie, RPO is roughly 40% Summer Wars.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    Because Kaiji is just less popular
  - peteforde 2y ago
    While I fundamentally agree with you about the lineage, I can appreciate that there is a direct thread of artistically psychotic surrealism in Squid Game that feels inherited from Battle Royale. The pink caskets (which might be my favourite visual element) feel like they would be at home in the world of Battle Royale, but IMO feel way too dark humor for Hunger Games. Battle Royale and Squid Game both feature characters reaching quivering ecstacy when players die. My memory could be rose colored at this point, but Hunger Games just wasn't that dark.
    - ajmurmann 2y ago
      I always thought of Hunger Games as Battle Royale for children. The violence and darkness in general is so very stripped down. IMO that's what made Battle Royale and, as you point out, Squid Game interesting. I do think that's more common in Asian cinema and tv though.
      - peteforde 2y ago
        cough Oldboy cough
    - butlike 2y ago
      As a white male American, I've sort of started to realize that 'asian' media plays with life/death more than american media, which seems to simply delineate: life = good; death = bad instead of exploring the notion of acceptance.
      - peteforde 2y ago
        Sounds like you might enjoy the 1999 movie After Life. A+
    - gamblor956 2y ago
      There are several characters in the first Hunger Games that revel in the death of their competitors, including several that torture their victims to death. A number of the competitors go into the games knowing what they involve, having specifically trained to kill other children. In the second and third Hunger Games novels, the traps and obstacles are designed to torture, maim, and/or inflict painful deaths, for the viewing pleasure of those watching (in the second) or just to inflict pain (in the third). At the end of the final novel, the "good" guys murder a bunch of innocent civilians (including children) in order to assure their ascendancy to power. In terms of darkness, the Hunger Games is darker than Battle Royale. But it's not a direct comparison, since Battle Royale is a satire and Hunger Games is not.
  - hmcq6 2y ago
    Same, Battle Royale always seemed anti-government to me where Squid Games is very explicitly anti-capitalist. I know there was a reward for winning and the fundamental reason for the Battle Royale was economic, but I always got the vibe the government was the problem. Like, the kids in Battle Royale weren't exempt if they were rich, right? It was a lottery. Squid Game only appeals to people struggling under capitalism.
    - ajmurmann 2y ago
      Yes! Squid Game is voluntary and motivation is economic pressure or greed whereas Battle Royale is a randomly selected school class which is explicitly a punishment for young people.
      - mejutoco 2y ago
        I wanted to add in BR the schools selected are the ones with the worst academic scores, IIRC.
        hmcq6 2y ago
        I don't think this is correct. I remember it being a lottery Maybe in Battle Royale 2 it was revealed this was the case
    - Propelloni 2y ago
      Battle Royale was about curbing juvenile delinquency, no overt or fundamental economic reasons. So, same boat, Battle Royale is anti-authoritarian thus in the same line as Hunger Games. Squid Games is anti-capitalist thus in the Running Man (the novel, 1982) line.
    - hibikir 2y ago
      Kaiji and Squid Games could be happening last week, in some warehouse complex, or a missile silo, and we'd never know. The contestants choose to be there, even if the choice isn't exactly free. Meanwhile the point of Battle Royale and Hunger Games is to have the entire world watching. Pure amusement for the rich vs political propaganda trying to remind the masses how little they are worth. A Battle Royale participant is semi-worthless, because every teenager, possibly every person, is seen as worthless. In Kaiji they are setting up situations to show how stupid and immoral the dregs of society are.
  - JoeyJoJoJr 2y ago
    > Squid Games is just Kaiji with better presentation. The presentation comparison is apples to oranges. Kaiji just wouldn’t work as live action (although they tried with a movie) as it relays heavily on the affordances of anime/manga as a medium to present Kaiji’s inner world and show visual metaphors for his emotions. Without that you take away the substance. It’s fair to say Squid Game steals a lot of themes and ideas from Kaiji, but it’s certainly not just Kaiji with different wrapping (unless there is something I am missing having not read the manga).
    - dudisubekti 2y ago
      I guess, it takes a lot of effort to do cross-medium adaptation. Personally I dropped the show mid-series because I have consumed similar stories (Kaiji, Liar's Game) so the show didn't sustain my interest. YMMV That being said, I was thinking of the article when I wrote my comment, they should've featured Kaiji instead of Battle Royale since it's the main inspiration behind the show.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- silisili 2y ago
  And before that was Hard Target, which is arguably a better story than both.
- imgabe 2y ago
  And before that there was The Running Man and The Long Walk both by Stephen King (as Richard Bachman) that were about deadly game shows / contests in futuristic dystopias.
  - forgotoldacc 2y ago
    There's "inspired by" media with similar concepts, then there's straight up copying it and not even bothering to change the content. Star Wars is inspired by westerns but adds its own flavor. Squid Game straight up copies Kaiji to the point that the only real difference is the language.
    - gostsamo 2y ago
      Star wars is inspired by Dune quite directly.
      - saberience 2y ago
        Eh this is more of a stretch, George was more inspired by The Hero With a Thousand Faces than he was Dune. Star Wars is telling a completely different story with a different central idea than Dune. The only obvious similarity is a desert planet.
      - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
        I always heard that George Lucas was inspired by The Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurosawa. If you watch it (and it's a great film) the parallels are quite obvious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress
      - jerf 2y ago
        I believe the point is that Star Wars is inspired by enough things and puts enough creativity into the combination that it isn't an obvious rip-off of any of its inspirations. Everything has inspirations. Truly new ideas are rare and often the first author to a truly new idea doesn't necessarily do a great job with it, and certainly can't explore it fully in any one work. But there's definitely a category of "direct ripoffs with little more than the proper nouns filed off". I'm not even targeting that at the current discussion; it has been observed by many people that rather a large number of "Hallmark movies" are literally just the same story, beat for beat, with the details of the participants in the love triangle slightly altered and recast. There's entire genres that are arguably just ripoffs of the genre template, over and over.
- golergka 2y ago
  There's always a TV tropes page with a much more complete list https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame
- lynguist 2y ago
  Not only that but Squid Game is literally the “real live adaptation” of Kaiji; the creator has said that it (the initial concept, the premise, etc) is based on Kaiji (he said it’s inspired by a manga with the same theme). The card game with the slave (I love that one) and the “waza” in the background when the main character doubts himself are some iconic missing adaptations. :) Here is an online adaptation of it: https://e-card-kaiji.netlify.app/ https://e-card-kaiji.netlify.app/
  - glandium 2y ago
    There are literal live adaptations of Kaiji too (3 feature films starring Fujiwara Tatsuya)
- jjmarr 2y ago
  https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame This dates back to at least Ancient Rome, where slaves would fight each other in the Colosseum for the amusement of spectators. Many people volunteered (actually seeking enslavement) because being a gladiator led to glory and riches. Flamma was granted his freedom 4 times and refused it every time! He refused to quit and ended up dying in his 30s. The idea that someone would voluntarily rejoin the game show of death is very realistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamma That being said, many gladiators didn't really have the skills to pursue a different career after retirement.
  - alterom 2y ago
    >That being said, many gladiators didn't really have the skills to pursue a different career after retirement. Same applies to many, many soldiers — and it's not just about the skills. It's just that things don't matter as much anymore outside of that environment.
  - 0xEF 2y ago
    This was always so interesting to me, especially when I think back to being a kid. The neighborhood kids would hang out in nearby farms and fields, catching bugs, snakes and frogs...only to put them in jars or terrariums to see if they would fight. In retrospect, it seems positively sociopathic, but it was fun at the time (and spurred a lifelong interest in frogs, for me). As an adult, it makes me wonder if that's what we were doing though; setting up gladiator games to try and feel a dominance over something in a world where we were constantly the bottom of the hierarchal ladder. The above step on the below, so to speak.
- mejutoco 2y ago
  Lord of the flies is related too.
- arkh 2y ago
  The power of Kaiji is how the author via the main character thoughts go into the metagame of each game. The art style is "special" but the content of the anime and the manga (because you'll want more of it) are top notch.
- kreco 2y ago
  Kaiji is a fantastic manga! The atmosphere is quite unique and for 1996 it was so innovative.
- slightwinder 2y ago
  > And before Battle Royale, there was Kaiji. Coincidentally, they both are from 1996. Though, the Battle Royale-novel was only finished in 1996, while Kaijis first chapter was released in 1996. So maybe they had the same inspiration, or somehow the novel was influenced by the Manga, even though it was so early in its fame.
  - nextworddev 2y ago
    In 1996, times were tough after sudden and dramatic burst of the great Japanese real estate bubble. Multi-year recessions, mass layoffs, people turning to sketchy hustles to make side income. Kind of mirrors what's going on in many countries.
- throw4847285 2y ago
  The best thing about Kaiji is that it falls into one of the most common genres of manga: edutainment. Every challenge is solvable via game theory or social psychology, explained in surprising depth. One of my favorite things about manga is that regardless of what genre a series might seem to fall into, it might also involve in depth explanations of topics either real or fictional. That combination of soap opera and explainer is so common in Manga and seemingly so rare outside of it.
  - wruza 2y ago
    I like this even though I don’t read manga. From time to time you just stumble upon a comment that explains that in manga … actually … and it was …. And it all makes a lot of sense! It creates out-of-band immersion unavailable to most western stories, which often just hand-wave shallow stereotypical motivations and world mechanics.
    - throw4847285 2y ago
      It's especially fun when it's the same tone as other instructional works, but the thing being taught is totally fictional. Delicious in Dungeon by Ryoko Kui is a phenomenal manga that combines a deep love of classic tabletop gaming, goofy humor, and detailed cooking advice but for cooking monsters. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, because that level of instruction comes with the genre, it can be amazing for a creator to purposefully avoid that. Taiyo Matsumoto is a weird vibey almost abstract artist, and when he took on the classic sports manga structure in Ping Pong he intentionally explains nothing about how Ping Pong works lets the whole story play out via the main characters repressed feelings. Manga rules.
- foresto 2y ago
  Battle Royale's premise is not identical, but what you're describing does match Squid Game. Is that what you meant to write?
valorzard 2y ago
There’s also danganronpa, which I am always seeing fanart of
- xlbuttplug2 2y ago
  And the Zero Escape games.
rado 2y ago
Check out Robert Altman’s Quintet (1979)
- Over2Chars 2y ago
  Quintet was: “Terrible, boring, and pointless” - Q. Tarantino https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/quentin-tarantino-robert-altman-the-worst-film-ever/ https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/quentin-tarantino-robert-altman...
  - rado 2y ago
    I really like it. It's not a genre film, but a cold existential drama based mostly on mood.
hunglee2 2y ago
Wonderful movie adaptation. Remains so watchable, 3 decades afterward.
riedel 2y ago
Regarding gameshows in which you have to pay with your life there was a mockumentary called 'Das Millionenspiel' [0] from 1970 . People where rather shocked at the time. [0] https://m.imdb.com/de/title/tt0066079/ https://m.imdb.com/de/title/tt0066079/
- euroderf 2y ago
  Sounds a bit like The Tenth Victim, a delightful specimen of 60s Italian science fictiony pop weirdness.
NooneAtAll3 2y ago
no before Squid Game there was Liars' Game and that one teaches muuuch better lesson - that players can cooperate so that nobody loses, no matter how much organizers want to make players clash with each other
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  There’s literally hundreds of shows and movies. What some people have missed is that this is its own sub-genre of horror. You have shows like Alice in Borderland that doesn’t get nearly enough love (and is far better than Squid Games in my opinion). Cube is a late 90s movie that’s on this theme too. You could argue the SAW movies are too, though I’m not personally a fan of those. There are also plenty of comics on this theme too. The aforementioned Alice in Borderlands is based on a manga by the same title.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    Cube is a great lesson in budget filmmaking.
  - NooneAtAll3 2y ago
    ...horror?
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      …yes…
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I came here specifically to recommend Alice in Borderland. I believe season 3 is due out soon this year. I just watched season 2 of Squid Games and whilst it was fun and I enjoyed it, it didn't really seem to add much to the series.
- flocciput 2y ago
  I've been waiting for someone to mention Liars' Game! When I started watching Squid Game that's the direction I hoped it was going in. Still good, and season 2 seems to be more in that vein than the first was. But in general I'm a huge fan of stuff that makes you wonder "how are they going to game their way out of it this time?"
Nursie 2y ago
And very shortly before the first season of Squid Game there was Alice In Borderland, which I enjoyed more. A quick search shows me S3 is happening this year which makes my mind boggle because I though S2 wrapped that whole thing up nicely and completely.
- pandemic_region 2y ago
  I always thought AiB was inspired on Squid Game, surprised to hear it predates it! Love the series, it doesn't get the attention it deserves in the genre.
  - ludston 2y ago
    It's based on a manga. Or whatever the Korean equivalent is.
    - Cyph0n 2y ago
      Alice in Borderland is based on a manga (Japanese). Korean “comics” are called manhwa.
  - Nursie 2y ago
    Pretty sure S1 of AiB was out around a year earlier than SG, in 2020. They both seem to go back a ways though - AiB is based on Manga that was serialised starting in 2010 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Borderland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Borderland And SG was apparently first written in 2009. And yes, I agree it should get more attention! There are obvious similarities, but AiB appeals to me more in its mysteriousness.
- 0xCMP 2y ago
  They left a pretty heavy cliff-hangar in the very last few minutes of the last episode.
  - nunez 2y ago
    IMO it was less a cliffhanger and more a hard cut
Tepix 2y ago
Running man (1987) was an important film in this genre
- arkh 2y ago
  But it suffers from being an adaptation of a Stephen King's book. King is really good at making you live through the eyes of his protagonists. Which is really hard to do in movies. Same thing with Shining were you follow Jack's fall to craziness from his PoV. And the same thing will happen with "The Long Walk", another great novel which I recommend if you like the death game theme.
  - sumtechguy 2y ago
    Both versions of the running man are very interesting. Whereas the book was more of 'we are all doomed' and the movie was more 'we can take control of this'.
keiferski 2y ago
It’s a little odd to me how much media attention these shows are getting, yet how little debt, more specifically usurious interest rates that lead to inescapable debt, as a general factor of modern life is discussed. I suppose most of the contestants in the shows are in debt because of gambling or overtly irresponsible decisions, but it would be more interesting IMO if the contestants were in debt from student loans, credit cards with 25% interest rates, medical debt, and so on. But I guess a show making that particular social critique isn’t going to get funded by a major studio or tech company.
- logicchains 2y ago
  Criticism of usury is a sensitive subject because it has in past unfortunately been associated with extreme racism.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Why wouldn't it be? Tech companies, perhaps until very recently, have been extremely left-leaning. And if you disagree that they were all very left wing: college being an overpriced scam is a conservative take! So either side will happily highlight that, although perhaps only one will suggest why that is.
  - defrost 2y ago
    So extremely of the left they made the Wobblies look right wing! /s https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745399591/wobblies-of-the-world/ https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745399591/wobblies-of-the-wor...
  - __alexs 2y ago
    Only a person who has no idea about left wing politics could describe tech companies as "extremely left wing." They are just boring old neoliberals.
wodenokoto 2y ago
While the comment section seems hell bent on pointing out other deadly game themed shows and movies, let's just take a moment to appreaciate how great a movie this is. The setup is absolutely bonkers: Something, something, things are going bad in the future so we have children battle each other - even a seemingly well functioning class. But to hell with that. It is quickly forgotten, once the game starts. Why the kids starts killing each other is much better shown in Battle Royale than why contestants in squid game accept the game.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  FWIW, dealing with misbehaving kids was a pretty serious issue in Japan at the time. A ton of pressure were put on them, and they diffused that pressure upon other kids, with pretty dire consequences (including deaths) Of course the core issue isn't the kids, but that's not what the system was trying to solve. It evolve in a less bloody way (by instituting a system where teachers can basically dictate grades independent of test results), but Battle Royale is definitely a product of its time, and some teachers would probably have been totaly fine with that solution.
- VierScar 2y ago
  You don't remember the first episodes of Squid Game then - it's very clearly explained to you. The main character has a gambling problem, lost his job and has taken money from loan sharks who threaten to take a kidney and eye to sell if he doesn't pay up. He also has a mum who is late stage diabetic who can't afford amputation surgery or treatment, particularly as he cancelled the insurance for gambling money. The antihero used Futures and committed fraud in a company, with the police after him and significant debts to repay as well. That's why contestants in squid game join - they're all in so much debt that theyve even signed away rights to their body. That's why the contestants can get in and choose to stay.
  - TheBigSalad 2y ago
    I think the point is that the build up of why they are there is pointless fluff. The subject matter is the game itself, so it's better to rush through the setup and have more action.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Avshalom 2y ago
"I tried to express a sentiment specific to Korean culture, [but] all the responses from different audiences were pretty much the same. Essentially, we all live in the same country, called Capitalism" -Bong Joon-Ho
- retinaros 2y ago
  his movie was very bad and simplistic while human nature is a deep topic. almost a caricature of a movie. the same year, on the same topic, in the same country, Burning was released. Highly recommend
ekianjo 2y ago
There's not much relation to it. In Squid Game people play games and happen to kill each other in some of them, but not all the time, in order to make money because they are deep in debt. In Battle Royale, they just kill each other's, there is no real motive.
- neogodless 2y ago
  The motive is "kill or be killed" and the only way to survive is to be the last one standing after 3 days.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    Exactly. That's a very weak motive. Which is why most kids get killed because they have no appetite for murder.
PaulHoule 2y ago
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danganronpa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danganronpa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belko_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belko_Experiment, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(franchise) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(franchise) or for that matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_120_Days_of_Sodom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_120_Days_of_Sodom
traspler 2y ago
There is also the manga "As the Gods Will" which is not only a similar concept but has the exact same first game. Strange that this is never mentioned as an influence.
postexitus 2y ago
There is a much stronger connection between Battle Royale and Hunger Games, than Squid Game. Very similar government depiction, the announcement of deaths etc. Moreover, we should appreciate Battle Royale even more - because it was done waaay before any prior art existed.
- csswizardry 2y ago
  Amen!
- Lich 2y ago
  Lord of the Flies?
  - postexitus 2y ago
    Definitely relevant and maybe inspirational, though I find "fight to death game show" format quite distinctive, so much so that it created its game genre 15 years later even with the same name as the movie.
    - sitkack 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game
      - postexitus 2y ago
        interesting, had no idea!
      - JKCalhoun 2y ago
        Yeah, that was the oldest reference to humans hunting humans I could muster.
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      Smash TV arcade game is from 1990. Not that distinctive in gaming.
b8 2y ago
Yep, and Battle Royale inspired the Hunger Games. Arma 3 created a Battle Royale mod that Lystic (Keegan Hollern) wrote most of the scripting for which won the Make Arma not War contest. Playerunknown then made PUBG which lead to Fortnite etc. being created. Playerunknown scammed Lystic out of like $5k and blocked him on X after they won. Lystic works at Tesla now and makes tons of money anyway.
- Centigonal 2y ago
  Another part of this history is the Machinima "Minecraft Survival Games" youtube series (Inspired by The Hunger Games) and the Hunger Games minigames that popped up in Minecraft servers in the early 2010s in the wake of that.
alsetmusic 2y ago
Squid Game s1 and Parasite took the world by storm in the same year. I thought we were seeing commentary on the horrors of capitalism and people were on the verge of demanding change. But no, it was mindless entertainment. People remain angry about their lot under capitalism, but they are successfully rerouted to place their rage with other targets that don’t meaningfully affect them. Good job, elites. You’ve secured your place at the top yet again.
nimish 2y ago
Battle Royale is required viewing IMO
jas39 2y ago
Great movie. I noticed the character Gogo Yubari in Kill Bill was actually stolen from Battle Royale.
- butlike 2y ago
  Isn't it the same actress?
  - jas39 2y ago
    Yes.
m3kw9 2y ago
I like squid game better, the everyone for themselves is a bit chaotic
rglover 2y ago
BR is a masterpiece. First pulled a rip of Battle Royale 1 + 2 off of Limewire back in high school. It became the underground "crazy" movie we'd burn to cds and pass around to friends.
openasocket 2y ago
It’s been years since I’ve read the book or seen the movie, but I had the exact opposite impression of the book vs the movie. The book is very deep, I found it compared rather well to dystopian novels like 1984. The movie, by contrast, felt like a weird slasher film, more interested in gratuitous violence than telling a compelling story. The characters in the book felt more nuanced. For example, the main female antagonist (I can’t remember her name) was a victim of abuse, and her trauma motivates her drive to live and her lack of hesitation to manipulating others to survive. Maybe someone else who has read the book here has a different take away?
- achileas 2y ago
  Also years for both for me (I probably read and watched them in 2003), but your impression of the two is the exact same as mine.
- nachexnachex 2y ago
  I read the book first and I've got the same impression as you, the movie felt lacking and certainly not as fruitful in fresh ideas as the book felt. I'm very surprised the post's author finds the book shallow (he uses "lacking in depth" I think).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
retinaros 2y ago
battle royale is a masterpiece of filmmaking, acting, cinematography, entertainment and the last movie of a master of its craft. squid game is a fun tv show.
gdubs 2y ago
I saw the world premiere in Edinburgh, Scotland when I was 18. Audience really had no idea what we were getting into. I had met a girl at a summer art program in France and she invited me to the festival so I got a eurorail pass and headed up there. The premiere was so cool. They served Red Bull and vodka with these little commemorative battle royal cans. Some people got plastic umbrellas like the one in the movie. At the time I feel like it was the most mind-blowing movie experience I'd ever had. Nobody was expecting what was coming, and there's something extra special about experiencing that together with a theatre full of people.
charlieyu1 2y ago
BR was fun. BR2 not so much, very cringe when the director tried to include message about Afghan war
jrm4 2y ago
Not quite the same by, but I believe a criminally underrated film sort of in this space is "Surviving the Game." On it's surface, an absolutely wacky survival action film; but also subtly excellent commentary on class, race, crime and capitalism.

224 points by ecliptik 2y ago

I’d recommend anyone to learn about: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusako_Shigenobu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusako_Shigenobu Hijacking a plane to North Korea is pretty fucking savage.

forgotoldacc 2y ago

And before Battle Royale, there was Kaiji. It's identical. People with debt invited to a game and a chance at loads of cash. People die in the game and some get enslaved. Rich people sit in another room and laugh while they watch people suffer. There's even a game where the "contestants" walk high up and fall to their deaths. Then the main character gets called back into the game and you get a season 2.

dudisubekti 2y ago
Yeah I don't understand why people make the connection between Squid Games and Battle Royale. Hunger Games is the one closer to Battle Royale, while Squid Games is just Kaiji with better presentation.
- echelon 2y ago
  That's the correct analogy and chronology. Another one is Ready Player One borrowed from Sword Art Online, which borrowed from .hack, which borrowed from Serial Experiments Lain, which drew upon a rich pantheon of cyberpunk novels.
  - macleginn 2y ago
    If we're talking about the movie, RPO is roughly 40% Summer Wars.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Because Kaiji is just less popular
- peteforde 2y ago
  While I fundamentally agree with you about the lineage, I can appreciate that there is a direct thread of artistically psychotic surrealism in Squid Game that feels inherited from Battle Royale. The pink caskets (which might be my favourite visual element) feel like they would be at home in the world of Battle Royale, but IMO feel way too dark humor for Hunger Games. Battle Royale and Squid Game both feature characters reaching quivering ecstacy when players die. My memory could be rose colored at this point, but Hunger Games just wasn't that dark.
  - ajmurmann 2y ago
    I always thought of Hunger Games as Battle Royale for children. The violence and darkness in general is so very stripped down. IMO that's what made Battle Royale and, as you point out, Squid Game interesting. I do think that's more common in Asian cinema and tv though.
    - peteforde 2y ago
      cough Oldboy cough
  - butlike 2y ago
    As a white male American, I've sort of started to realize that 'asian' media plays with life/death more than american media, which seems to simply delineate: life = good; death = bad instead of exploring the notion of acceptance.
    - peteforde 2y ago
      Sounds like you might enjoy the 1999 movie After Life. A+
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    There are several characters in the first Hunger Games that revel in the death of their competitors, including several that torture their victims to death. A number of the competitors go into the games knowing what they involve, having specifically trained to kill other children. In the second and third Hunger Games novels, the traps and obstacles are designed to torture, maim, and/or inflict painful deaths, for the viewing pleasure of those watching (in the second) or just to inflict pain (in the third). At the end of the final novel, the "good" guys murder a bunch of innocent civilians (including children) in order to assure their ascendancy to power. In terms of darkness, the Hunger Games is darker than Battle Royale. But it's not a direct comparison, since Battle Royale is a satire and Hunger Games is not.
- hmcq6 2y ago
  Same, Battle Royale always seemed anti-government to me where Squid Games is very explicitly anti-capitalist. I know there was a reward for winning and the fundamental reason for the Battle Royale was economic, but I always got the vibe the government was the problem. Like, the kids in Battle Royale weren't exempt if they were rich, right? It was a lottery. Squid Game only appeals to people struggling under capitalism.
  - ajmurmann 2y ago
    Yes! Squid Game is voluntary and motivation is economic pressure or greed whereas Battle Royale is a randomly selected school class which is explicitly a punishment for young people.
    - mejutoco 2y ago
      I wanted to add in BR the schools selected are the ones with the worst academic scores, IIRC.
      - hmcq6 2y ago
        I don't think this is correct. I remember it being a lottery Maybe in Battle Royale 2 it was revealed this was the case
  - Propelloni 2y ago
    Battle Royale was about curbing juvenile delinquency, no overt or fundamental economic reasons. So, same boat, Battle Royale is anti-authoritarian thus in the same line as Hunger Games. Squid Games is anti-capitalist thus in the Running Man (the novel, 1982) line.
  - hibikir 2y ago
    Kaiji and Squid Games could be happening last week, in some warehouse complex, or a missile silo, and we'd never know. The contestants choose to be there, even if the choice isn't exactly free. Meanwhile the point of Battle Royale and Hunger Games is to have the entire world watching. Pure amusement for the rich vs political propaganda trying to remind the masses how little they are worth. A Battle Royale participant is semi-worthless, because every teenager, possibly every person, is seen as worthless. In Kaiji they are setting up situations to show how stupid and immoral the dregs of society are.
- JoeyJoJoJr 2y ago
  > Squid Games is just Kaiji with better presentation. The presentation comparison is apples to oranges. Kaiji just wouldn’t work as live action (although they tried with a movie) as it relays heavily on the affordances of anime/manga as a medium to present Kaiji’s inner world and show visual metaphors for his emotions. Without that you take away the substance. It’s fair to say Squid Game steals a lot of themes and ideas from Kaiji, but it’s certainly not just Kaiji with different wrapping (unless there is something I am missing having not read the manga).
  - dudisubekti 2y ago
    I guess, it takes a lot of effort to do cross-medium adaptation. Personally I dropped the show mid-series because I have consumed similar stories (Kaiji, Liar's Game) so the show didn't sustain my interest. YMMV That being said, I was thinking of the article when I wrote my comment, they should've featured Kaiji instead of Battle Royale since it's the main inspiration behind the show.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
silisili 2y ago
And before that was Hard Target, which is arguably a better story than both.
imgabe 2y ago
And before that there was The Running Man and The Long Walk both by Stephen King (as Richard Bachman) that were about deadly game shows / contests in futuristic dystopias.
- forgotoldacc 2y ago
  There's "inspired by" media with similar concepts, then there's straight up copying it and not even bothering to change the content. Star Wars is inspired by westerns but adds its own flavor. Squid Game straight up copies Kaiji to the point that the only real difference is the language.
  - gostsamo 2y ago
    Star wars is inspired by Dune quite directly.
    - saberience 2y ago
      Eh this is more of a stretch, George was more inspired by The Hero With a Thousand Faces than he was Dune. Star Wars is telling a completely different story with a different central idea than Dune. The only obvious similarity is a desert planet.
    - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
      I always heard that George Lucas was inspired by The Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurosawa. If you watch it (and it's a great film) the parallels are quite obvious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress
    - jerf 2y ago
      I believe the point is that Star Wars is inspired by enough things and puts enough creativity into the combination that it isn't an obvious rip-off of any of its inspirations. Everything has inspirations. Truly new ideas are rare and often the first author to a truly new idea doesn't necessarily do a great job with it, and certainly can't explore it fully in any one work. But there's definitely a category of "direct ripoffs with little more than the proper nouns filed off". I'm not even targeting that at the current discussion; it has been observed by many people that rather a large number of "Hallmark movies" are literally just the same story, beat for beat, with the details of the participants in the love triangle slightly altered and recast. There's entire genres that are arguably just ripoffs of the genre template, over and over.
golergka 2y ago
There's always a TV tropes page with a much more complete list https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame
lynguist 2y ago
Not only that but Squid Game is literally the “real live adaptation” of Kaiji; the creator has said that it (the initial concept, the premise, etc) is based on Kaiji (he said it’s inspired by a manga with the same theme). The card game with the slave (I love that one) and the “waza” in the background when the main character doubts himself are some iconic missing adaptations. :) Here is an online adaptation of it: https://e-card-kaiji.netlify.app/ https://e-card-kaiji.netlify.app/
- glandium 2y ago
  There are literal live adaptations of Kaiji too (3 feature films starring Fujiwara Tatsuya)
jjmarr 2y ago
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyGame This dates back to at least Ancient Rome, where slaves would fight each other in the Colosseum for the amusement of spectators. Many people volunteered (actually seeking enslavement) because being a gladiator led to glory and riches. Flamma was granted his freedom 4 times and refused it every time! He refused to quit and ended up dying in his 30s. The idea that someone would voluntarily rejoin the game show of death is very realistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamma That being said, many gladiators didn't really have the skills to pursue a different career after retirement.
- alterom 2y ago
  >That being said, many gladiators didn't really have the skills to pursue a different career after retirement. Same applies to many, many soldiers — and it's not just about the skills. It's just that things don't matter as much anymore outside of that environment.
- 0xEF 2y ago
  This was always so interesting to me, especially when I think back to being a kid. The neighborhood kids would hang out in nearby farms and fields, catching bugs, snakes and frogs...only to put them in jars or terrariums to see if they would fight. In retrospect, it seems positively sociopathic, but it was fun at the time (and spurred a lifelong interest in frogs, for me). As an adult, it makes me wonder if that's what we were doing though; setting up gladiator games to try and feel a dominance over something in a world where we were constantly the bottom of the hierarchal ladder. The above step on the below, so to speak.
mejutoco 2y ago
Lord of the flies is related too.
arkh 2y ago
The power of Kaiji is how the author via the main character thoughts go into the metagame of each game. The art style is "special" but the content of the anime and the manga (because you'll want more of it) are top notch.
kreco 2y ago
Kaiji is a fantastic manga! The atmosphere is quite unique and for 1996 it was so innovative.
slightwinder 2y ago
> And before Battle Royale, there was Kaiji. Coincidentally, they both are from 1996. Though, the Battle Royale-novel was only finished in 1996, while Kaijis first chapter was released in 1996. So maybe they had the same inspiration, or somehow the novel was influenced by the Manga, even though it was so early in its fame.
- nextworddev 2y ago
  In 1996, times were tough after sudden and dramatic burst of the great Japanese real estate bubble. Multi-year recessions, mass layoffs, people turning to sketchy hustles to make side income. Kind of mirrors what's going on in many countries.
throw4847285 2y ago
The best thing about Kaiji is that it falls into one of the most common genres of manga: edutainment. Every challenge is solvable via game theory or social psychology, explained in surprising depth. One of my favorite things about manga is that regardless of what genre a series might seem to fall into, it might also involve in depth explanations of topics either real or fictional. That combination of soap opera and explainer is so common in Manga and seemingly so rare outside of it.
- wruza 2y ago
  I like this even though I don’t read manga. From time to time you just stumble upon a comment that explains that in manga … actually … and it was …. And it all makes a lot of sense! It creates out-of-band immersion unavailable to most western stories, which often just hand-wave shallow stereotypical motivations and world mechanics.
  - throw4847285 2y ago
    It's especially fun when it's the same tone as other instructional works, but the thing being taught is totally fictional. Delicious in Dungeon by Ryoko Kui is a phenomenal manga that combines a deep love of classic tabletop gaming, goofy humor, and detailed cooking advice but for cooking monsters. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, because that level of instruction comes with the genre, it can be amazing for a creator to purposefully avoid that. Taiyo Matsumoto is a weird vibey almost abstract artist, and when he took on the classic sports manga structure in Ping Pong he intentionally explains nothing about how Ping Pong works lets the whole story play out via the main characters repressed feelings. Manga rules.
foresto 2y ago
Battle Royale's premise is not identical, but what you're describing does match Squid Game. Is that what you meant to write?

valorzard 2y ago

There’s also danganronpa, which I am always seeing fanart of

xlbuttplug2 2y ago
And the Zero Escape games.

rado 2y ago

Check out Robert Altman’s Quintet (1979)

Over2Chars 2y ago
Quintet was: “Terrible, boring, and pointless” - Q. Tarantino https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/quentin-tarantino-robert-altman-the-worst-film-ever/ https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/quentin-tarantino-robert-altman...
- rado 2y ago
  I really like it. It's not a genre film, but a cold existential drama based mostly on mood.

hunglee2 2y ago

Wonderful movie adaptation. Remains so watchable, 3 decades afterward.

riedel 2y ago

Regarding gameshows in which you have to pay with your life there was a mockumentary called 'Das Millionenspiel' [0] from 1970 . People where rather shocked at the time. [0] https://m.imdb.com/de/title/tt0066079/ https://m.imdb.com/de/title/tt0066079/

euroderf 2y ago
Sounds a bit like The Tenth Victim, a delightful specimen of 60s Italian science fictiony pop weirdness.

NooneAtAll3 2y ago

no before Squid Game there was Liars' Game and that one teaches muuuch better lesson - that players can cooperate so that nobody loses, no matter how much organizers want to make players clash with each other

hnlmorg 2y ago
There’s literally hundreds of shows and movies. What some people have missed is that this is its own sub-genre of horror. You have shows like Alice in Borderland that doesn’t get nearly enough love (and is far better than Squid Games in my opinion). Cube is a late 90s movie that’s on this theme too. You could argue the SAW movies are too, though I’m not personally a fan of those. There are also plenty of comics on this theme too. The aforementioned Alice in Borderlands is based on a manga by the same title.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Cube is a great lesson in budget filmmaking.
- NooneAtAll3 2y ago
  ...horror?
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    …yes…
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  I came here specifically to recommend Alice in Borderland. I believe season 3 is due out soon this year. I just watched season 2 of Squid Games and whilst it was fun and I enjoyed it, it didn't really seem to add much to the series.
flocciput 2y ago
I've been waiting for someone to mention Liars' Game! When I started watching Squid Game that's the direction I hoped it was going in. Still good, and season 2 seems to be more in that vein than the first was. But in general I'm a huge fan of stuff that makes you wonder "how are they going to game their way out of it this time?"

Nursie 2y ago

And very shortly before the first season of Squid Game there was Alice In Borderland, which I enjoyed more. A quick search shows me S3 is happening this year which makes my mind boggle because I though S2 wrapped that whole thing up nicely and completely.

pandemic_region 2y ago
I always thought AiB was inspired on Squid Game, surprised to hear it predates it! Love the series, it doesn't get the attention it deserves in the genre.
- ludston 2y ago
  It's based on a manga. Or whatever the Korean equivalent is.
  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    Alice in Borderland is based on a manga (Japanese). Korean “comics” are called manhwa.
- Nursie 2y ago
  Pretty sure S1 of AiB was out around a year earlier than SG, in 2020. They both seem to go back a ways though - AiB is based on Manga that was serialised starting in 2010 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Borderland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_Borderland And SG was apparently first written in 2009. And yes, I agree it should get more attention! There are obvious similarities, but AiB appeals to me more in its mysteriousness.
0xCMP 2y ago
They left a pretty heavy cliff-hangar in the very last few minutes of the last episode.
- nunez 2y ago
  IMO it was less a cliffhanger and more a hard cut

Tepix 2y ago

Running man (1987) was an important film in this genre

arkh 2y ago
But it suffers from being an adaptation of a Stephen King's book. King is really good at making you live through the eyes of his protagonists. Which is really hard to do in movies. Same thing with Shining were you follow Jack's fall to craziness from his PoV. And the same thing will happen with "The Long Walk", another great novel which I recommend if you like the death game theme.
- sumtechguy 2y ago
  Both versions of the running man are very interesting. Whereas the book was more of 'we are all doomed' and the movie was more 'we can take control of this'.

keiferski 2y ago

It’s a little odd to me how much media attention these shows are getting, yet how little debt, more specifically usurious interest rates that lead to inescapable debt, as a general factor of modern life is discussed. I suppose most of the contestants in the shows are in debt because of gambling or overtly irresponsible decisions, but it would be more interesting IMO if the contestants were in debt from student loans, credit cards with 25% interest rates, medical debt, and so on. But I guess a show making that particular social critique isn’t going to get funded by a major studio or tech company.

logicchains 2y ago
Criticism of usury is a sensitive subject because it has in past unfortunately been associated with extreme racism.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
robertlagrant 2y ago
Why wouldn't it be? Tech companies, perhaps until very recently, have been extremely left-leaning. And if you disagree that they were all very left wing: college being an overpriced scam is a conservative take! So either side will happily highlight that, although perhaps only one will suggest why that is.
- defrost 2y ago
  So extremely of the left they made the Wobblies look right wing! /s https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745399591/wobblies-of-the-world/ https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745399591/wobblies-of-the-wor...
- __alexs 2y ago
  Only a person who has no idea about left wing politics could describe tech companies as "extremely left wing." They are just boring old neoliberals.

wodenokoto 2y ago

While the comment section seems hell bent on pointing out other deadly game themed shows and movies, let's just take a moment to appreaciate how great a movie this is. The setup is absolutely bonkers: Something, something, things are going bad in the future so we have children battle each other - even a seemingly well functioning class. But to hell with that. It is quickly forgotten, once the game starts. Why the kids starts killing each other is much better shown in Battle Royale than why contestants in squid game accept the game.

makeitdouble 2y ago
FWIW, dealing with misbehaving kids was a pretty serious issue in Japan at the time. A ton of pressure were put on them, and they diffused that pressure upon other kids, with pretty dire consequences (including deaths) Of course the core issue isn't the kids, but that's not what the system was trying to solve. It evolve in a less bloody way (by instituting a system where teachers can basically dictate grades independent of test results), but Battle Royale is definitely a product of its time, and some teachers would probably have been totaly fine with that solution.
VierScar 2y ago
You don't remember the first episodes of Squid Game then - it's very clearly explained to you. The main character has a gambling problem, lost his job and has taken money from loan sharks who threaten to take a kidney and eye to sell if he doesn't pay up. He also has a mum who is late stage diabetic who can't afford amputation surgery or treatment, particularly as he cancelled the insurance for gambling money. The antihero used Futures and committed fraud in a company, with the police after him and significant debts to repay as well. That's why contestants in squid game join - they're all in so much debt that theyve even signed away rights to their body. That's why the contestants can get in and choose to stay.
- TheBigSalad 2y ago
  I think the point is that the build up of why they are there is pointless fluff. The subject matter is the game itself, so it's better to rush through the setup and have more action.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Avshalom 2y ago

"I tried to express a sentiment specific to Korean culture, [but] all the responses from different audiences were pretty much the same. Essentially, we all live in the same country, called Capitalism" -Bong Joon-Ho

retinaros 2y ago
his movie was very bad and simplistic while human nature is a deep topic. almost a caricature of a movie. the same year, on the same topic, in the same country, Burning was released. Highly recommend

ekianjo 2y ago

There's not much relation to it. In Squid Game people play games and happen to kill each other in some of them, but not all the time, in order to make money because they are deep in debt. In Battle Royale, they just kill each other's, there is no real motive.

neogodless 2y ago
The motive is "kill or be killed" and the only way to survive is to be the last one standing after 3 days.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  Exactly. That's a very weak motive. Which is why most kids get killed because they have no appetite for murder.

PaulHoule 2y ago

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danganronpa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danganronpa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belko_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belko_Experiment, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(franchise) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(franchise) or for that matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_120_Days_of_Sodom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_120_Days_of_Sodom

traspler 2y ago

There is also the manga "As the Gods Will" which is not only a similar concept but has the exact same first game. Strange that this is never mentioned as an influence.

postexitus 2y ago

There is a much stronger connection between Battle Royale and Hunger Games, than Squid Game. Very similar government depiction, the announcement of deaths etc. Moreover, we should appreciate Battle Royale even more - because it was done waaay before any prior art existed.

csswizardry 2y ago
Amen!
Lich 2y ago
Lord of the Flies?
- postexitus 2y ago
  Definitely relevant and maybe inspirational, though I find "fight to death game show" format quite distinctive, so much so that it created its game genre 15 years later even with the same name as the movie.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game
    - postexitus 2y ago
      interesting, had no idea!
    - JKCalhoun 2y ago
      Yeah, that was the oldest reference to humans hunting humans I could muster.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    Smash TV arcade game is from 1990. Not that distinctive in gaming.

b8 2y ago

Yep, and Battle Royale inspired the Hunger Games. Arma 3 created a Battle Royale mod that Lystic (Keegan Hollern) wrote most of the scripting for which won the Make Arma not War contest. Playerunknown then made PUBG which lead to Fortnite etc. being created. Playerunknown scammed Lystic out of like $5k and blocked him on X after they won. Lystic works at Tesla now and makes tons of money anyway.

Centigonal 2y ago
Another part of this history is the Machinima "Minecraft Survival Games" youtube series (Inspired by The Hunger Games) and the Hunger Games minigames that popped up in Minecraft servers in the early 2010s in the wake of that.

alsetmusic 2y ago

Squid Game s1 and Parasite took the world by storm in the same year. I thought we were seeing commentary on the horrors of capitalism and people were on the verge of demanding change. But no, it was mindless entertainment. People remain angry about their lot under capitalism, but they are successfully rerouted to place their rage with other targets that don’t meaningfully affect them. Good job, elites. You’ve secured your place at the top yet again.

nimish 2y ago

Battle Royale is required viewing IMO

jas39 2y ago

Great movie. I noticed the character Gogo Yubari in Kill Bill was actually stolen from Battle Royale.

butlike 2y ago
Isn't it the same actress?
- jas39 2y ago
  Yes.

m3kw9 2y ago

I like squid game better, the everyone for themselves is a bit chaotic

rglover 2y ago

BR is a masterpiece. First pulled a rip of Battle Royale 1 + 2 off of Limewire back in high school. It became the underground "crazy" movie we'd burn to cds and pass around to friends.

openasocket 2y ago

It’s been years since I’ve read the book or seen the movie, but I had the exact opposite impression of the book vs the movie. The book is very deep, I found it compared rather well to dystopian novels like 1984. The movie, by contrast, felt like a weird slasher film, more interested in gratuitous violence than telling a compelling story. The characters in the book felt more nuanced. For example, the main female antagonist (I can’t remember her name) was a victim of abuse, and her trauma motivates her drive to live and her lack of hesitation to manipulating others to survive. Maybe someone else who has read the book here has a different take away?

achileas 2y ago
Also years for both for me (I probably read and watched them in 2003), but your impression of the two is the exact same as mine.
nachexnachex 2y ago
I read the book first and I've got the same impression as you, the movie felt lacking and certainly not as fruitful in fresh ideas as the book felt. I'm very surprised the post's author finds the book shallow (he uses "lacking in depth" I think).

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

retinaros 2y ago

battle royale is a masterpiece of filmmaking, acting, cinematography, entertainment and the last movie of a master of its craft. squid game is a fun tv show.

gdubs 2y ago

I saw the world premiere in Edinburgh, Scotland when I was 18. Audience really had no idea what we were getting into. I had met a girl at a summer art program in France and she invited me to the festival so I got a eurorail pass and headed up there. The premiere was so cool. They served Red Bull and vodka with these little commemorative battle royal cans. Some people got plastic umbrellas like the one in the movie. At the time I feel like it was the most mind-blowing movie experience I'd ever had. Nobody was expecting what was coming, and there's something extra special about experiencing that together with a theatre full of people.

charlieyu1 2y ago

BR was fun. BR2 not so much, very cringe when the director tried to include message about Afghan war

jrm4 2y ago

Not quite the same by, but I believe a criminally underrated film sort of in this space is "Surviving the Game." On it's surface, an absolutely wacky survival action film; but also subtly excellent commentary on class, race, crime and capitalism.