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A mole infiltrated the highest ranks of American militias
- pvaldes 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- oldpersonintx 2y agoAfter years of research, our mole discovered that "militia" members liked to dress in plus-sized camo and shoot legally-owned ARs on private property...
- declan_roberts 2y agoOne of the biggest threats to the country according to the FBI!
- laidoffamazon 2y ago[flagged]
- chriscrisby 2y ago[flagged]
- timkpaine 2y agoThis statement is, of course, false. They did bring weapons. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/07/08/jan6-defendants-guns/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/07/08/jan6-defe... https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/missouri-man-sentenced-felony-weapons-charge-actions-during-jan-6-capitol-breach https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/missouri-man-sentenced-fe... https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- declan_roberts 2y ago[flagged]
- BlueParanoia 2y agoIf you watched the video where Babbit got shot, there was literally a man in the corner of the hallway with a rifle and camo
- declan_roberts 2y agoThere's not a single indictment of any protester for possession of a rifle inside the capitol. This is America. Guns are cheap and easy to obtain. They could have all marched into the open doors of the capitol armed but they didn't. Why do you think that is?
- dralley 2y agoWhy you wrapping it in all of these conditionals? Why does it matter whether the many people with firearms went inside the capital itself or if they just helped other break through the police barricades outside the capital, which they did? Why are you making a distinction between whether someone with "a rifle" was caught inside or any other type of firearm? There were many people verified to have brought firearms onto capital grounds, and several of those people tried to get inside the capital building itself, and there may well have been others that succeeded. Or not. Either way, there is little difference.
- ericjmorey 2y agoWhy do you think that question is relevant at all.
- dralley 2y ago>But I don't blame you for believing the protesters carried weapons into the capitol. it's because of the intentional framing of the media and the government. They literally did carry weapons into the capital. There are many instances of this. People have been tried and convicted on those charges. You can literally see weapons present on them in pictures: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-defendant-known-zip-tie-guy-sentenced-nearly-5-years-prison-rcna104188 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-de... https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/trump-supporter-charged-firing-gun-jan-6-capitol-attack-rcna142538 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/trump-su... https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-rioter-brought-two-guns-capitol-sentenced-five-years-prison-rcna53454 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-ri... https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-rioter-charged-police-carrying-gun-sentenced-7-years-rcna94940 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-ri... https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/capitol-rioter-guy-reffitt-gets-longest-jan-6-sentence-no-terrorism-en-rcna40664 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/capitol-...
- nailer 2y ago[flagged]
- thefaux 2y agoHe sat in the White House watching the violence unfold on fox news for hours egging the protestors on on twitter while leaving Mike Pence to be hung while he very likely could have stopped the violence with a few tweets. Instead, he waited until it was clear that they already failed. We all saw it live on tv and Jack Smith's investigation brought out the details. Unfortunately, he was not permitted by the supreme court to provide his evidence.
- laidoffamazon 2y agoHe also said “let’s all march to the capitol” and wanted to walk with them until the secret service stopped him
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoYou are spreading misinformation, as did most of the news media and politicians that manufactured outrageous claims about J6. That’s not the quote. Trump literally used the word “peacefully” in the same sentence when he called for the (planned) march. He did not call for illegal actions or violence at any point. This is well known now, so your made up false quote is a lie.
- laidoffamazon 2y agoIs that why they kept beating up cops?
- michaelcampbell 2y ago> very likely could have stopped the violence with a few tweets. That he didn't was repugnant and a dereliction of duty, but even if he had, do you honestly think that mob would have done anything different? People in groups don't think normally, that's pretty well studied and established; I don't think it would have made one whit of difference. But he should have tried; I'm surprised someone didn't even tell him to just for the optics of it.
- throwaway_95283 2y ago[flagged]
- laidoffamazon 2y agoThey were simply chanting “hang Mike pence” because it sounded nice I'm sure.
- declan_roberts 2y agoAh yes, the protests of 2020. Known for their love of and appreciation of all our politicians.
- y33t 2y agoThere's a credible organization.
- bagels 2y agoThat and sedition and terrorism plots.
- pama 2y ago“It was a world where a man would propose assassinating politicians, only to spark a debate about logistics.”
- ashoeafoot 2y agoCompletely new motion, eh, that, ah-- that there be, ah, immediate action-- FRANCIS: Ah, once the vote has been taken. REG: Well, obviously once the vote's been taken. You can't act another resolution till you've voted on it...
- brookst 2y agoI mean Ted Kaczynski liked a nice glass of water, maybe he wasn’t a bad guy?
- wat10000 2y agoThat description could fit a group of friends having wholesome fun, or a private army being raised with the goal of taking territory. These groups are somewhere in between, but closer to the latter. The main mitigating factor is that they’re usually pretty incompetent.
- BadHumans 2y ago> Unless otherwise noted, none of the militia members mentioned in this story responded to requests for comment This is a serious story but this made me burst out laughing. Sorry, the PR agent for these heavily armed militias was unable to return my request for comments.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 9dev 2y agoIt’s just good journalism to give everyone in a story a chance to defend their position, even if those opportunities are often not taken up.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoI have seen journalists give 24 hr to defend your position. Many times it’s zero time.
- nullstyle 2y agoI think that's bad journalism
- Magi604 2y agoIt is. Sometimes the writer will add "didn't respond before press time" to give a little more context, but most readers won't grasp what that could really mean (like the reporter might have contacted them 15 mins before press time)
- sp0rk 2y agoDo you have any examples of stories where one of the subjects was contacted, wanted to respond, but didn't have enough time?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- a9i 2y agoThe first paragraph seems to be an invitation to create your own emergency procedure (mine would actually be less "wild"...).
- CalChris 2y agoYeah, I wouldn't include vitamins in lieu of more cash or calories.
- andrewflnr 2y agoYou might if you were already in the habit of taking them. Or if you were more worried about the quality of your future food than having any. They don't take much space or weight, so it's not that hard to include them.
- dole 2y agoA “Bug Out Bag” is a pretty standard notion in the prepper and survival communities, also handy for fleeing disasters and power outages.
- throwup238 2y agoIt’s also recommended by CALFIRE in California: https://readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/emergency-supply-kit/ https://readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/emergency-...
- bee_rider 2y agoIt seems like a good thing to have in general. A few days of food? Good if society collapses… or also if you have a real bad storm. Having it in a bag, eh, well why not, right?
- leptons 2y agoEarthquakes are a thing in California too, a very real threat. Flooding in Southern California is something that could happen too especially with climate change, and we live right next to a major waterway. We have our emergency kit in a very large thick rubber waterproof bag. We also have water filtration devices in there. Nobody I know is prepared as well as we are, not even a little bit prepared.
- kylebenzle 2y ago[flagged]
- timkpaine 2y agoThe military->domestic abuse->divorce->family court->terrorism pipeline is quite strong, as evidenced in LV and NOLA this week. Rather than larping in your "local militia" while being slowly but surely radicalized, consider professional help. Everyone can benefit from some therapy.
- mmooss 2y agoPeople need to socialize with other humans that understand them. Therapy can be great and necessary, but it's not sufficient.
- aliasxneo 2y agoUnfortunately the spin cycle has anyone, including a lot of HN, believing that all militia members are the most violent and evil people living in the world. Ironic given I reserve that title for ISIS who seems to have just recently radicalized another person to run over a bunch of people in New Orleans. I have no particular love for these militias, but I’m not ignorant enough to believe the stuff media goes about parroting.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoISIS is a militia, you're not making any sense.
- aliasxneo 2y agoSince when was ISIS an American militia? It seems you didn't read the post. My comment makes perfect sense in the context of the article.
- michaelcampbell 2y ago
- NicholasGurr 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sitkack 2y ago> He moved to Las Vegas and, at the age of 25, became an officer in the metro police. Kinch came to serve in elite detective units over 23 years in the force, hunting fugitives and helping take down gangs like the Playboy Bloods. Eventually he was assigned to what he called the “Black squad,” according to court records, tasked with investigating violent crimes where the suspect was African American. (A Las Vegas police spokesperson told me they stopped “dividing squads by a suspect’s race” a year before Kinch retired.) That is crazy, you'd think that would be illegal under the Civil Rights Act. White criminals had a separate police force from black ones.
- chrsig 2y agonah, not crazy. it's pretty crazy to think that sort of shit doesn't happen.
- whimsicalism 2y agoi can see why in highly segregated communities it might be more effective to have detectives who know xyz about a certain community, especially since criminal gangs tend to self-associate by race/ethnicity would a police group dedicated to investigating the mafia be a violation of the civil rights act?
- oivey 2y agoNo, that would be ridiculous. An “Italian squad” might be, though.
- whimsicalism 2y agoany mafia squad back in the day was effectively an italian squad
- BadHumans 2y agoThe details matter when talking about legalities. A group of cops investigating a gang that happens to have a lot of italian members is different than having a group of cops that investigates italians.
- bearjaws 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tjhdg 2y ago[flagged]
- mjmsmith 2y ago[dead]
- vehemenz 2y agoYou seem to be arguing that the intelligence community should take independent actors more seriously than organized extremist groups. I'd recommend developing your position a bit more before trying sarcasm. I'd also avoid rhetorical pitfalls like "TDS" which give you negative credibility in the eyes of most commenters.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago> TDS “Trump Derangement Syndrome” for those unfamiliar. If it’s not already obvious, it is a rhetorical device used by some to invalidate and dismiss criticisms of Trump. “That’s just TDS!” etc.
- whis-kiss 2y agoIt was going strong for 4 years where he wasn't president. I don't recall so much whinging from the right when Obama left office. I'm Canadian so no dog in that race, just stating the clear obsession the left has with trump meant TDS stuck ad a meme cuz it was to a degree, real. A glance at the politics sub during his time out of office demonstrates this clearly on reddit. This non elected non govt position holding person still dominated their front page.
- adrian_b 2y ago[flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago[flagged]
- vlovich123 2y ago> Sowing that distrust is why Williams is going on the record, albeit without his original name I don’t understand this. There’s an insane level of detail here that if true immediately reveals his identity to those involved. How does withholding his name change anything? > On March 20… He’d helped persuade Seddon and his lieutenants to fire the head of AP3’s Utah chapter and to install Williams in his place.
- vasco 2y agoDo you know his name after reading the article?
- vlovich123 2y agoI am not the one that would be a threat to his life or have context to reverse engineer his identity.
- alamortsubite 2y agoYou aren't the only one who may read the article.
- vlovich123 2y agoRight, and random readers it's irrelevant to. The ones who care and have context would be able to figure out who this is in their organization if this isn't the real name unless it's entirely a fabricated story. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
- vasco 2y agoWhat answer do you want? The answer has already been told to you twice. They don't want more people to know who they are. If you had read carefully you'd seen that in the article they say the group already knows who he is and he is on the run. It's natural he doesn't want more people to know him. But you seem to want some other answer that satisfies you.
- nailer 2y ago[flagged]
- glial 2y agoYou must have been watching different videos of the event than I did, because I saw people breaking windows and forcing themselves against police, who were blocking doors. Evidence of planning is available from court proceedings: > Beginning in late December 2020, via encrypted and private communications applications, the defendants and various co-conspirators coordinated and planned to travel to Washington, D.C., on or around Jan. 6, 2021, the date of the certification of the electoral college vote. The defendants made plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation. The co-conspirators then traveled across the country to the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area in early January 2021, with paramilitary gear and supplies including firearms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, and radio equipment. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-oath-keepers-found-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-oath-keepers-found-guilt...
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoThe way you spin 'with assistance' when this is the type of 'criminal assistance' they received is crazy (D.C. police intel chief found guilty of tipping off Proud Boys leader ahead of Jan. 6 attack): https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-dc-police-intel-chief-guilty-tipping-proud-boys-leader-ahead-ja-rcna185206 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-d... If you care enough to 'correct the record' with internet posts go back and educate yourself with the actual videos not small propaganda snippets. Not a Destiny fan but his notes on the topic are a good starting place as well: https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/January_6th_Insurrection_(Obsidian_Notes) https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/January_6th_Insurrection_(Obsid...
- dralley 2y agoIt's not at all a bold claim. The founder of the Oath Keepers was convicted, tried, and found guilty of "seditious conspiracy" in a court of law. You are are either lying, or guilty of severe inattention, if you go around claiming that "all the evidence we have seen" shows that. e.g. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/oath-keeper-testifies-massive-gun-pile-stashed-hotel-eve-jan-6-rcna51749 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/oath-kee... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w <- That's a forcible breach, not "being let through"
- MontagFTB 2y agoI don’t understand the lack of interest by journalists. What more did Williams need to do the first time he reached out to garner interest? Does ProPublica overestimate the seriousness of the militia movement? I’d think based on J6 the journalists ignoring Williams’ communications should have paid attention.
- zzzeek 2y agoI dont think journalists really find J6 to be important at all. Even left leaning journalists pay lip service to it but shrugs, buncha white dudes blowing off steam I think is how "everyone" sees this. As evidence, look at the election we just had. It reminds me of how the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Oh, that was scary, well, whatever, the dudes in jail, shrugs. Because it failed to bring the building down. For me, I was like, holy crap people are trying to blow up the WTC arent they going to....keep trying? but that's just not how people think. Super scary thing that failed == ho hum.
- wat10000 2y agoOr, pertinent to the subject at hand, how the Oklahoma City bombing was tied to the right wing militia movement and they’re still mostly seen as, well, a bunch of white dudes blowing off steam like you said. In that case, it seems like people saw that they got the perpetrators and that’s that, not considering what sort of circumstances produced them and where it might go in the future. And WTC and OKC were (at least somewhat) successful attacks! J6 caused damage but failed. We’re really bad at taking failed attempts seriously.
- dragonwriter 2y agoA big factor in the OKC, J6, and militia movement and White nationalist violence more generally is that the law enforcement community in the US has very significant overlap with the militia and White nationalist movements, impacting how seriously they are treated by law enforcement, and how seriously they are treated by journalists who rely on experts from within the law enforcement community (both current officers and private experts that are the same people relied on as outside experts by law enforcement and are usually ex-law enforcement) for their understanding of the issues.
- mjfl 2y agoThe moles are leading the militias, what are you talking about - 'infiltrated'? Enirque Tarrio was an FBI informant the entire time before he was arrested.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jamestimmins 2y agoThis post makes me wonder why videos of militias training always look so farcical. Practically, why are there not militia groups with Navy SEAL/Delta-level tactical abilities? Or at least near to that? Is it personnel selection effects or bc that level of training requires time/money investments that are out of the reach of non-professional organizations?
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoIn think it's personnel selection. I think the militias don't get the top-of-the-line retired military people. They get the wannabes, the people who love the trappings of being tough and deadly, without the actual skills or training. Putting on my amateur psychologist's hat, I'd guess that the militia types mostly washed out in the military, but are still looking for what they went into the military to try to find - a sense of belonging and identity. The real SEAL/Delta level people don't go into a militia to try to find that - they found it for real in the real military.
- mmooss 2y agoThe love of military-style vests (and of the word 'tactical') seems like a signal.
- ckcheng 2y ago> seems like a signal Also “mil-spec”, and in a totally different context i.e. big box retail, “contractor grade”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade
- dole 2y agoMore often plate carriers and body armor, mag holders and other “operator” gear than just military syyle vests. “tacticool” is the ironic label given to overtly “tactical” gear.
- ben_w 2y agoDuring the pandemic, I was wondering why I never saw "military grade" or "tactical" masks. I guess not enough of an overlap between anyone anti-mask and any convenient promotional memes.
- lifeisstillgood 2y agoI remember re-watching “three days of the condor” recently - and apart from a few “wow the 70s was a different time” moments the biggest takeaway was the hero just hands a dossier to the Washington Post, no drops off a dossier to the post room!, and the film, the audience, everyone just assumes the job is done - the bad guys are exposed and they will be punished I think we have a different view now. In the UK we are looking at a Post Office scandal where the upper management literally prosecuted its own employees for theft instead of admit a billion dollar computer system was buggy. And this started in 1990s, was printed in newspapers by the mid-2000s and only got serious last year and prosecutions will probably go through to the 2030s I mean if the punishment for your misdeeds is thirty years delayed, and basically consists of retiring and being embarrassed in front of friends it’s hardly a punishment. And it rather makes this “moles” efforts … well it’s not much of a deal for him is it really.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y agoThat's kinda the trouble with fighting these memes, it's legal to own guns, it's legal to hang out with your buddies and shoot guns and talk about overthrowing the government, it's legal to be friends with the sheriff, it's legal for the sheriff to be a white supremacist... But all that shit's a powder keg, they're hoping for some nonsense like "race war" to set them off, and until then they have a lot of deniability.
- whis-kiss 2y agoHalf the thread is saying they're incompetent but you think them getting(what they feel) is a call to action is powder keg. Feel like neither is actually true as a result. I'm not particularly fearful of these groups. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Left-wing_militant_groups_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Left-wing_militant_... I also see no reason why a group wanting to get a form of survival training(even with legal firearms) should be against the law unless they have made specific targeted threats of violence. That's usually what you need to press assault as a person. "They said they'd hurt me" doesn't cut it usually without details or clear evidence like video of the threat. Not sure why for either side it's outside their rights. Keeping tabs is a good thing but they aren't exactly dominating headlines with their acts of violence Your last sentence sounds completely unfounded and based on your own perception of these groups with no evidence of said "hoping for race wars" (Edit I'm Canadian but spent a lot of time in the US. Am here now)
- victorbjorklund 2y agoGood read. For a similar story I can recommend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mole:_Undercover_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mole:_Undercover_in_North_...
- hackandthink 2y agoReminds me of a story in Germany: Verfassungsschutz moles have procured weapons for Nazi terrorists(1999-2011). https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalsozialistischer_Untergrund https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalsozialistischer_Unterg...
- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoFrustrating article. They didn't discuss the goals of the militia's or their concerns at all. The spy was basically a one man militia. Whole thing smells.
- jondwillis 2y agoInfinite Luigis Theory: I get a sense that we are beginning to see a resurgence in lone-wolf style operator activism and crime (or terrorism, etc., depending on your view of things), sort of like was more common 30+ years ago, a la the Unibomber, Skyjacker, all of the serial killers in the 60-80s. The reasons of “why now” and “why lone wolf” are complicated but mostly boil down to high availability of information (awareness of opsec) and relatively low trust amongst social groups and of institutions, coupled with a more online and more destabilized male demographic the younger you go.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 2y agoLuigi was the first educated one we've seen in a while, not sure if its a trend yet. the rest are young with not much going for them, or homeless and have mental problems
- ZeroTalent 2y agoWhy does it matter if you read the theory or not before killing a CEO?
- JKCalhoun 2y agoThe difference between now and 30+ years ago is, you will be caught very quickly.
- specialist 2y agoYes and: the outrage machine results in mass self-radicalization.
- drewcoo 2y ago> the outrage machine results in mass self-radicalization I would think that radicalization is more likely caused by the center being more and more obviously fascist or corporatist or anti-people or whatever term you prefer.
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- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoWhat does it even mean "militia" in the US? Is any group with weapons a militia? Is it a militia to gather and train and only worry about tyranny?
- xboxnolifes 2y agoAn organized group of people arming themselves and training to fight against some present or future threat. Also not recognized as an official armed force of a country.
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago[dead]
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago[dead]
- pyuser583 2y ago[flagged]
- lovasoa 2y agoI have never heard of anyone in the developed world who would be afraid to criticize Al-Qaeda or the Taliban or Isis. Actually I have never heard anyone NOT criticize them when talking about them.
- pyuser583 2y agoWe do criticize them. A lot. But there are certain boundaries where people get scared. Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses is the key example. Many refuse to translate it. It used to take courage for book stores to sell it. It’s a bit weird how this became the cause for religious extemists. It’s not a hateful book. It received good reviews in Riyahd and Tehran when first published. But I’m old enough to remember bookstores refusing to sell it. Multiple translators have been killed. A similar line exists with visually depicting the Prophet Muhammad. People get killed over this. ChatGPT won’t show an image of the Sultan Mehmet II, but has no such qualms about the Sultan Sulieman the Magnificient. I can’t get it to depict anyone named Muhammad, can you?
- mrayycombi 2y agoThe amount of supposed criminal activity by "militias" pales in comparison to the massive transnational mexican cartels - who have their own militias, whose ideology is money. But manufacturing a right wing conspiracy is more important than discussing real narco terrorism that kills thousands of Americans and Mexicans every year, floods our country with lethal drugs, and finances North Korea and Chinese crime organizations. How many headless corpses did the Oath keepers leave on the street last year? How many metric tons of fentanyl did they smuggle? Yep.
- defrost 2y agoWhile you're correct about the sheer scale of narco cartels you are incorrect to bluntly state that right wing conspiracy is manufactured. While it may be small scale and clownish in appearence from a distance, it is real and does result in bombings, shootings, death, injury, and disruption.
- bogwog 2y agoSo right wing millitants conspiring to overthrow the US government aren't something we should discuss because mexican drug cartels exist? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- mrayycombi 2y agoMexican cartels have more money weapons and men than all the "right wing militias" combined. So, yeah. Let's worry about a dozen guys in Idaho.
- JetSpiegel 2y agoDid Mexican cartels try to assassinate the VP for certifying an election? Not even the Mexican elections!
- vogu66 2y agoJust discovered the existence of large scale armed political extremist groups in the States. Wow. And both left and right wing with any kind of mix of ideologies, too. I wonder how many of them are able to use a computer to find the myriad holes in the world's infrastructure. Here is a really nice book to give some perspective: End times, by Peter Turchin Best most terrifying birthday present I ever got, I think. Actually I think I'll put it as a post in and of itself, folks here may like it.
- lgbrandon 2y agoThis first paragraph really made me LOL. This here: and thumb drives that each held more than 100 gigabytes of encrypted documents, which he would quickly distribute if he were about to be arrested or killed. he wouldn't be distributing crap if either of those happened. The cops or killers would be in possession! I mean was he going to say to the cops WAIT don't arrest me and hands stuff to bystander01!!! I can't take this article serious at all.