15 ms·
Ambulance hits cyclist, rushes him to hospital, then sticks him with $1,800 bill
- rNULLED 2y agoguys new startup idea
- tertle950 2y agoI'd invest
- selcuka 2y agoUberHits?
- tjpnz 2y agoA Free Ambulance service? Limited international growth prospects given the number of established players.
- karussell 2y agoIt could be a success in the US if you let people pay to not get hit ;) (people buy a tracker). Maybe this is the way to finally introduce universal health care.
- teeray 2y agoThe mafia would like to invest
- ks2048 2y agoUberlance. Just Uber with some band-aids in the backseat and they clean up blood stains for you. Sadly, only half-joking.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoThe Sand Hill Road folks will only invest if you can also switch all ambulance drivers over to non-employee commission only contractors.
- cafard 2y agoA kid I knew in high school was knocked off his bike by an ambulance. He'd have come out of the incident better if the ambulance hadn't backed up to see what happened, for it backed over his legs. The city settled with him for what sounded like a lot of money in 1971, but not so much ten years later.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> if the ambulance hadn't backed up to see what happened, for it backed over his legs Was the driver drunk? Whose first instinct after possibly running over something is to back up?
- lmm 2y ago> Whose first instinct after possibly running over something is to back up? It's pretty common. You're manoeuvring your vehicle, you hear a noise, you think you bumped a post or something and instinctively try to "undo" what you just did.
- nick3443 2y agoHow horrible!
- cafard 2y agoIt must have been pretty bad. I should say that when I knew him, he walked with no obvious limp.
- stefanos82 2y agoWhy does this reminds me of the "Why would they do this" meme? Such things happen only in USA LOL!
- 1-6 2y agoThe people in the USA are more open about sharing embarrassing situations. I think idiocy is a trait that appears worldwide.
- tim333 2y agoThe US seem to document it better. Googling for news on "florida man" is almost always impressive. Just now we have "Florida man has been arrested after allegedly hiding two radio-controlled explosive devices in the toilets of a casino", "Florida Man Accused of Hacking Disney World Menus, Changing Font to Wingdings", "Florida man bitten twice by shark at same beach over a decade apart" and others.
- stefanos82 2y agoI was referring at the charging part while this person got HIT by an ambulance.
- esperent 2y agoAside from the crazy high bill, wouldn't a person whom this happened to get charged for medical coverage regardless of how it happened in every country without free healthcare?
- shiroiushi 2y agoOnly in America.
- Zopieux 2y agoI've yet to see a more American article title.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoRocky mountain west American here. Our local (non-air) ambulance company went out of business. The local city and county government were forced create a government ran service and everyone was upset they were doing it (people literally argued we should just have nothing at city/county meetings). Our new government system works so much better, is cheaper, and is actually thriving with us even getting new stations for quicker response. Everyone in town still hates evil socialized medicine and says it can't work, in fact they just voted for the Presidential candidate that promised we can't have it. I love it here and love the people, but WTF?
- bitcharmer 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait comments and ignoring our many requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- kube-system 2y ago[deleted]
- pdonis 2y agoNo, the at fault driver and/or their insurance would be responsible for paying their medical costs. The person who was hit doesn't pay their medical bills and then ask the insurance company for reimbursement. They file a claim with the insurance company to pay their medical bills directly. AFAIK all US states require bodily injury coverage to work that way.
- kube-system 2y agoYeah, you're right. Brain fart on my end.
- olliej 2y agoThis is not quite true - if your insurance policy does not cover the full amount you can be on the hook. Of course if you don’t have insurance you’re kind of screwed, or your insurance doesn’t cover the full recovery costs you have to pay the medical bills and get stuck with them if the responsible party is under insured and lacks assets. Accident created expenses seem like one of those things where if someone else is responsible for the costs you should be able to simply transfer all subsequent costs to them, rather than being stuck with bankruptcy or life long debt if they can’t afford to repay you. Honestly there should be a transitive debt mechanism - but companies won’t like that because currently they can just force people to settle for some minimal payout knowing that they aren’t on the hook for anything that comes up down the road.
- aeronaut80 2y agoAs a non-American, accident created expenses seem like one of those things where the state should cover the personal injury costs which helps to make healthcare cost at least half the price, leads to better outcomes, and avoids people being bankrupted simply because of their health.
- nritchie 2y agoAs a bicyclist, I'm constantly told how dangerous bicycles are. Usually, I get a blank look when I explain, bicycles are very safe, it is the cars that are the dangerous part of the equation. Now I'll have to add fast billing ambulances to the list of dangers.
- anal_reactor 2y agoThe entire discussion about cycling can be avoided by simply taking a look at the Netherlands and designing infrastructure and laws like this. It's literally that simple.
- HDThoreaun 2y agoAmericans dont want to live in the Netherlands or like people in the Netherlands, It's really that simple.
- itsumoiru 2y agoI think most people equate "bicycles are dangerous" with "cycling is dangerous", which seems perfectly reasonable to me. What matters is whether you'll get hurt using a bicycle, not the pedantry of whether the bicycle itself is the problem.
- jordanb 2y agoIt's not pedantry when it's the root of the problem. Cycling isn't dangerous, being on the street with cars is dangerous. Being on the street on a bike is dangerous, walking down a street is dangerous. Heck being in a compact car on today's streets with oversized/overweight vehicles is dangerous. It's important to be precise about the source of the danger because it correctly identifies the problem. There's a big push right now to ban people from buying and registering Kei cars with the argument being that they're too dangerous on american roads. If that argument holds, firstly, then it flows logically that they can nanny state people off of their bikes and motorcycles as well using the same argument. Secondly, Kei cars are not dangerous, getting hit in a kei car by an oversized SUV or "light" truck is.
- D-Coder 2y ago"An Oregon cyclist who was struck by an ambulance that made a right turn into him — fracturing his nose and leaving him with scrapes and other injuries across his body — has filed a $997,000 lawsuit against the ambulance provider after it scooped him up, drove him to the hospital and then billed him for the service, according to the suit." $47K for current medical costs, $50K for expected future medical costs, and $900K for pain and suffering (long-term). So the provider may not be getting away with this. Article does not say if cyclist has paid/will pay the ambulance bill.
- shiroiushi 2y agoDon't forget the cost of repairing or replacing the bicycle. He should have added an additional $3k to make it an even million.
- Someone1234 2y agoIt is likely below $1M because that is a common insurance cut-off, which is believed to increase the chance of a settlement.
- deepsun 2y agoTypically judge rejects the huge sums, and he gets more reasonable amount, if even fair. E.g. judge might award him only proven costs with receipts, and reject all the pain-and-suffering.
- nkrisc 2y agoI’d say large sums are warranted here to avoid a perverse incentive where ambulances hit people and then take them to the hospital for profit. I’m only half serious.
- wmf 2y agoIf an ambulance hits someone it's likely that the ambulance's insurance will have to pay their ER bill which will be higher than the ambulance bill. It's a net loss.
- rconti 2y agoIt sounds like what's actually happening here is that the cyclist's auto insurance is picking up the tab, and in turn suing the ambulance company to get their money back. I always find this intersection of the auto and cycling worlds so strange. If he didn't have a car, he wouldn't have auto insurance, so I guess his health insurance would be covering the initial tab, and then suing the ambulance company to get their money back? If you get a moving violation on your bicycle and show a driver's license to the police, it seems you get points in your license, but if you don't have a driver's license, you don't?
- jimt1234 2y ago> If you get a moving violation on your bicycle and show a driver's license to the police, it seems you get points in your license ... Can confirm. A friend got a DUI while riding his bicycle. He was guilty as hell, just didn't realize it would affect his driving record.
- kylecazar 2y agoAnd the penalties are the same as if he's driving a motor vehicle? Here in NY, a DUI can really mess with your life for a while. While drunk cycling is probably penalty-worthy, I'm conflicted about it being a proper DUI
- grogenaut 2y agoBUI is a different infraction in many states than DUI, and in some states (WA) it's not even illegal, just like riding a horse while drunk isn't illegal. Searching the record https://www.bicycleaccidentsnyc.com/new-york-law-on-biking-while-intoxicated/ https://www.bicycleaccidentsnyc.com/new-york-law-on-biking-w... NY (sibling was asking about NY) does not give DUIs for bikes either. The key is Motorized. So you would get on on an e-bike or e-scooter but not a manual scooter, manual bike. WA you can't even get a public intoxication ticket, you only get tickets if you're disorderly or causing a threat. In WA they CAN take you off the street and impound your bike at no cost to you (you can pick it up free the next day). They're actually supposed to offer you a lift as well.
- deleted 2y ago
- kopirgan 2y ago$1800 to drive him to the hospital?! They didn't even had to drive to pick him up!
- kylehotchkiss 2y agoI mean what’s an IV cost, $1250?
- decremental 2y ago[dead]
- olliej 2y agoI can see exactly how this happened: the ambulance drivers picked up the cyclist and drove to the hospital, which requires them to do a whole bunch of paperwork to ensure correct hospital billing, correct accounting for drugs etc. I would assume at that point computers took over and led to the billing. In an ideal world you’d say “well obviously the target shouldn’t have been billed by the ambulance”, but I’m guessing their infrastructure does not have a built in mechanism for “we are the cause of this trip being needed”. After that the rest of the lawsuit is likely just the only mechanism to get correctly compensated (the insurance company pays the hospital - if the victim had insurance - then goes to the ambulance co to get them to pay, which is via a “lawsuit”, probably with no intent to go to court, just that’s the mechanism of action. The ambulance company also probably has insurance, but often such insurance is contingent on being sued, because of course). The large amount is not actually very large: ignoring all the immediate bills I’m sure lawsuit payouts have tax obligations, depending on severity of injuries recovery can be a very long time if ever, with increased costs through out life, and then you are always starting high with the expectation of a counter offer for settlement.
- esprehn 2y agoIANAL but as long as the payment is covering the personal injury then it's not considered income and isn't taxable. https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/tax-implications-of-settlements-and-judgments https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/tax-implications-of-...
- jrrrr 2y agoSomebody make this video game.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoSomething like Crazy Taxi, but you need to optimize your hits and routing to the nearest hospitals. Sounds like a fun, if not depressing, concept.
- anshumankmr 2y agoGTA San Andreas had great ambulance mini missions. God I loved that game.
- abestern 2y ago[flagged]
- jrflowers 2y agoThere’s nothing more Reddit-like than taking the time to complain about the website without adding anything to the discussion
- righthand 2y agoThere’s nothing more HackerNews-like than taking the time to complain about the necessity of certain commentary without adding anything to the discussion.
- Dylan16807 2y agoSounds good to me! (As long as it's a small fraction of comments.)
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoDid he get a discount because the ambulance was already there?
- supportengineer 2y agoTalk about an “infinite free money hack”
- iseanstevens 2y agoChaser Ambulance?
- K0balt 2y agoKudos for the innovative approach to streamlining the customer acquisition funnel! Now if we could only make this work using gig app contractors, maybe explore a collab with Uber… this is so fire! I think I figured out a way to make this scale and put a moat around it. See y’all at my series A!
- osrec 2y agoThe American healthcare system scares the living daylights out of me.
- wpollock 2y agoDaylights scared out of you? Try our new pill, Daylights Restoration OTC! Guaranteed to work or no money back. Offer void in areas with active consumer fraud laws.
- osrec 2y agoThe TV adverts really caught me off guard during my first trip to the US as an adult. The disclaimers right at the end make you wonder how the ad could ever be effective - I mean, how could anyone respond positively to an ED ad that ends with "may cause death"!?
- account42 2y agoPeople buy cigarettes with pictures of what they do to you on the packaging in the EU as well. I expect it's a combination of gambling (surely I won't be the one affected by these possible outcomes) combined with an instant gratification mindset (feeling good now trumps possible long term consequences).
- the_clarence 2y agoThis is what they just voted to renew
- lawn 2y ago"Improve" you mean.
- known 2y ago[dead]
- karim79 2y agoI know I'm a bit spoiled health-services wise by being a resident of Germany. But this story is just incredible, yet completely unsurprising. I hope the US will have mandatory health insurance some day.
- magwa101 2y ago[dead]
- rightbyte 2y agoIn stories like this... I assume the patient was billed due to some automatic bureaucracy?
- ks2048 2y agoIn this question, how does "some automatic bureaucracy" differ from simple normal functioning of businesses?
- rightbyte 2y agoIn no way. What I'm trying to understand is if the bill was written, 'knowing' that the same ambulance hit the patient. I mean, it would be so absurd. Some sort of fraud. I imagine the ambulance trip is registred at the hospital at arrival in some procedure and then billed the patient in some automatic manor.
- self_awareness 2y ago> In this question, how does "some automatic bureaucracy" differ from simple normal functioning of businesses? If you mean what you wrote, "normal", then I'd say yes -- it does matter a lot, but if you'd mean "healthy", then I'd say that it shouldn't matter at all.
- onionisafruit 2y agoTheir lawyer probably would have insisted they bill it like any other run. Not doing so could be construed as admitting fault.
- davidhyde 2y agoKnee jerk reaction about the ambulance service behaviour and general cyclist safety aside, 100k in medical expenses and a 1m lawsuit for a broken nose and other “unspecified” injuries is just mental.
- brailsafe 2y agoThe medical expense amount and every other direct cost is wild, but I guess I wonder how much would someone justifiably invoice to be hit by an ambulance. If it was a celebrity or ceo they'd probably bill quite a lot, but just a random guy?
- thoroughburro 2y agoIn Capitalist America, ambulance chases YOU.
- Mathnerd314 2y agoThis is one of the common accidents, the "right hook". https://velosurance.com/blog/how-to-avoid-most-common-riding-accidents/ https://velosurance.com/blog/how-to-avoid-most-common-riding... https://www.fcgov.com/traffic/pdf/bicycle-crashes.pdf https://www.fcgov.com/traffic/pdf/bicycle-crashes.pdf I mostly walk these days but when I did bike I had these crash patterns memorized so I could avoid them.
- slibhb 2y agoI got hit by a car last weekend. It was the "left cross". Fortunately I wasn't seriously injured -- just a minor concussion -- and my bike wasn't badly damaged. It's a weird situation. The guy who hit me stopped but seemed like a crackhead. There wasn't enough damage to require a police report or involve insurance. But maybe I should have just to create a record of this idiot causing accidents.
- quesera 2y ago> But maybe I should have Yes, definitely! For the reason you suggest, but also -- complications from injury sometimes are not evident immediately.
- fy20 2y agoAs a European, the fact that you have to pay for emergency transport in an ambulance is enough internet for today.
- stefantalpalaru 2y ago[dead]
- fetzu 2y agoBecause you think you don’t pay for your healthcare? As an European, I have probably paid upwards of 150k for healthcare and probably got about 10k worth of it (at what might consider unreasonable prices, mind you). Even in countries with universal healthcare, it’s not free. There is always someone footing the bill. EDIT: a word
- fiala__ 2y agoThe point is, in most of Europe it’s the richer folks that foot the bill for the poorer ones. That’s a system based on solidarity - you contribute to our collective ability to treat our sick and injured, according to your financial means. EDIT: at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. Of course the richest people don’t foot the bill for anyone but themselves.
- oarfish 2y agoIn Germany we have a two-prong system of public and private health insurance, so the richer folks actually remove themselves from the solidarity system, leaving the middle class with good jobs to pay for most of the expenses. Is it similar in other european countries?
- fetzu 2y agoThe German system is interestingly (but not surprisingly fucked up). In Switzerland there is a mandatory health insurance (which provides for most healthcare needs), but insurances are private companies which charge different prices for the same service (because of course they would), which vary greatly according to which village you live in (because our “states” negotiate the prices with the health providers and then insurances, through a very transparent and understandable system; I am kidding of course, probably the people designing it don’t even understand it fully, citizens and politicians damn sure don’t). Prices have been steadily rising for my whole adult life with no end in sight. There have been some tries to get rid of that in favor of universal healthcare managed by the state, but the people said “no” because they fully understood and weighed the issue (I am kidding, the people defending the current system just bought more ads than the people pushing for change). But hey, at least getting run over by an ambulance won’t bankrupt you! Silver linings, eh?
- CHB0403085482 2y agoBakfiet time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA
- sathishmanohar 2y agoWell. The ambulance just unlocked infinite money glitch.
- nadermx 2y agoHere is a video[0] with links to the paper from UC Denver about how protected bike lanes make it safer for everyone. Maybe this might help the cause [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YwYeNz1jCkM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YwYeNz1jCkM
- secretsatan 2y agoReminds me of what happened to a friend of mine in Switzerland. He was walking (perhaps staggering) home drunk one night, and a police car drove by to ask if he was alright and perhaps he wanted a lift home? The guy said alright and they drove him perhaps 500m. Couple of days later he got a bill for the ride.
- icar 2y agoThis has nothing to do with tech. It's for Twitter, not HackerNews.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoMaybe the bicyclist is a programmer.
- occz 2y agoThis is baffling to the point where it almost feels like satire. What are you going to tell me next, that the bicyclist committed a faux pas by not tipping the ambulance driver?
- polotics 2y agoMemories of one specific 6 year old a long time ago that was hit by an ambulance and had a long-ish life in a wheelchair with severely reduce brain functions. Also memory of the last game of chess I had played with this friend. He's dead now, of covid in his forties, his mum having pretty much dedicated her life to taking care of the forever-kid. Please think to drive carefully, and after that then please think to drive with enough care that you won't create such pain.
- seba_dos1 2y agoThis headline tells you which country this happened in without telling you which country this happened in.
- bitcharmer 2y agoThe funniest thing is Americans really believe what they have is the best in the world. USA is third world country with a Gucci belt
- fennecbutt 2y agoGreedy medical industry executives stick him with the bill* suit and tie parasites
- djaygour 2y ago[flagged]