21 ms·

Boeing workers vote to strike

563 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

arcastroe 2y ago
> [...] voted in favor of the strike, some 96 percent — far more than the two-thirds needed to launch the work stoppage. > The Biden administration was monitoring the situation; acting Labor Secretary Julie Su has been in contact with both sides. If it's important enough for the whitehouse to get involved, then the union members have incredible leverage. It's telling that 96% voted against the deal. They know they can get a better one.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  Tell that to the railroad workers.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Boeing spent $43B on stock buybacks between 2013 and 2019 while paying their CEO ~$30M/year. > To support its share price, the company under McNerney poured billions into stock buybacks instead of investing profits into the kind of research and development needed to stay competitive. McNerney decided not to spend billions of dollars building a new plane to replace the 737. Instead, Boeing tweaked and updated the existing model and called it the 737 Max, outfitting it with larger, more efficient engines for increased economy. Compensating for the resulting instability was a secretive automated system called MCAS that would adjust the plane’s pitch without input from the pilot. > McNerney also fought to deeply cut costs. On his watch, the company opened its first non-unionized aircraft production line and initiated a program called “Partnering for Success” that pushed suppliers to cut their prices by 15 percent or more. Many feared that squeezing suppliers would harm the quality of their components, but McNerney was determined to recoup the cost of the 787’s development; if the subcontractors complained, they could find their work taken away from them, as happened to landing-gear-maker United Technologies Aerospace Systems. > McNerney retired in 2015, handpicking his successor, president and COO Dennis Muilenburg. Over the next three years, Boeing’s stock price more than doubled as it sold new planes the world over. (As Bloomberg News reported, Muilenberg and McNerney “had personal reasons to emphasize productivity and cost-cutting” because their compensation was tied to share performance. Together they took $209 million in total pay over seven years.) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/boeing-planes-problems-stock-price-shareholders.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/boeing-planes-proble...
- hinkley 2y ago
  They started new factories in new states to try to break the unions in Seattle.
  - IntelMiner 2y ago
    Boeing fleeing Seattle while trying to cheerfully pretend they're a "Washington company" was absolutely disgraceful
    - beaglesss 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - sofixa 2y ago
      They moved their HQ to Chicago and then DC to focus on government contracts (they suck at those too), so "Washington company" is extra funny.
      - extraduder_ire 2y ago
        I mean, any company based in DC can call itself a Washington company.
      - hinkley 2y ago
        Technically they also had offices in St Louis after the coup. The MD people moved to Chicago. And I hope every single one of them was a Cardinals fan.
  - rob74 2y ago
    ...with resounding success: > In 2019, following the discovery of exterior damage on planes manufactured in Charleston [the non-unionized factory], for a time Qatar Airways would only accept delivery of Dreamliners assembled in Everett [the unionized factory]. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina#Quality-control_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina#Quality-...) But then they moved all 787 production to North Charleston, so problem solved.
forrestthewoods 2y ago
It should be illegal* to post articles about strikes without including details on current deal, current offer, and union demands. All these pieces try to influence your opinion without providing any details! Maybe the union demands are reasonable, or maybe they're not. Give me specifics please! *obvious hyperbole
- calcifer 2y ago
  > Maybe the union demands are reasonable, or maybe they're not. Give me specifics please! Would that really help, though? Do you have the industry know-how, expertise, and internal knowledge to assess whether the offer is reasonable or not?
  - ikawe 2y ago
    I’m not an expert, but I’d like to know more. To me it’s interesting to know what the workers are concerned about specifically. Otherwise it just reads like “lots of people are mad”. Well about what exactly? It’s fine for a headline, but not very impressive reporting.
    - calcifer 2y ago
      That much I agree with. I'd like to know more too, but I won't pretend it would be because I'd like to judge it for reasonableness :)
      - zo1 2y ago
        That's the whole point of journalism. Right now, they gave neither the facts that the GP wanted, nor the context and understanding that you may need to be comfortable enough to judge it's reasonableness within the context of the strike/industry/company. It's like a BS meeting by a BS manager that he holds for "stakeholders" where he just throws a bunch of facts on the table, and then proceeds to do nothing to guide the decision making process. And then during the whole meeting we all run around like headless chickens trying to find out more info and context, all half-arguing with one another because we all have different pieces of the puzzle. </rant> Sorry had one of these just yesterday, and no matter how delicately I phrased or insinuated-it the person with the most info/context just did not offer up guidance and direction (ironically it's the same person that organized the meeting). Then at the end they gave praise to all those that contributed and then said they'll schedule another meeting to discuss the outcomes because we "couldn't reach consensus" or "decide on the next course of action".
beaglesss 2y ago
[flagged]
- weweweoo 2y ago
  Yes, firing ordinary workers and moving production elsewhere is definitely going to fix bad management and rotten company culture on top level. Boeing management created the 737MAX fiasco and killed those people.
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  It's Boeing man. I won't get into too many specifics, but there's a reason they call it ScreamLiner. And it ain't because final assembly in the Carolinas is implemented to exacting, high quality standards, by excellent and exemplary employees. There are a lot of poor performers throughout Boeing. Starting with their C-Suite execs.
- ulfw 2y ago
  The people who decided to build the 737 max were sitting in Chicago at the time and now are sucking up to Washington politicians from Arlington County, Virginia
- hungie 2y ago
  I don't think you understand who made the max and why it failed.
  - beaglesss 2y ago
    Sure it's failed from the floor workers because they forgot the plug door needs bolted. It's failed other ways due to the other (SPEEA) union botching the MCAS. Sometimes it's easy to lose track of how basically all the Washington unions are so broken in their homicidal negligence while begging for more money to fail miserably.
    - sofixa 2y ago
      The MCAS failure was a multilayered one. The engineers who designed it, software engineers who developed it, QA, testing, pilots, managers who approved, managers who instilled that work culture, etc etc are all responsible and should all have been fired and sentenced to prison for their negligence and dereliction of duty.
DevX101 2y ago
Defeat for the company or defeat for shareholders? These things are not the same.
- Y-bar 2y ago
  Depends on if you are a shareholder for the long terms (many years) or a short-term trader. I don't own stock in Boeing (or any of their main competitors), but when there is a strike like this in a company I hold stock in I generally get more bullish for the long term because it means that: 1. It signals employees still care about the company enough to not just quit and go elsewhere. And employees who care make a better product. 2. Negotiating better benefits generally helps retain the solid "middle class" who make the brunt of the work in a company. It might not entice the "rock-stars" or so, but they generally are not dis-incentivised by their colleagues getting better benefits either. 3. The C-suite gets to know they are not untouchable, this also helps keep them level when answering to the board of directors.
  - csomar 2y ago
    [dead]
    - immibis 2y ago
      How do you measure a company's "health"?
    - notrealyme123 2y ago
      Such a black and white view of things. But for simplicity, remind me again who does the work, and who cheaps out on plane parts to drive up revenue?
    - photonthug 2y ago
      > There are very few good stories with unions but most of them are tragic especially long-term. Since unions helped to end practices like child labor and what amounted to indentured service, I’m not sure you know what “tragic” or “long term” means. If what you mean is more like “what have they done for us lately”, you should probably just say it and start that conversation instead
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]
- NotACop182 2y ago
  Maybe had the company not prioritized greed and instead invested in itself they wouldn’t be in this mess. Don’t blame the workers for this and a company that depends so heavily on the government to keep it afloat shouldn’t be allowed to buyback stocks. Unions in a good place because Boeing isn’t going anywhere. Mismanagement allowed the greedy management to cash out already why not the workers.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    I see this repeated often - blame placed entirely on management and not the workers. Why do you believe that? Do you honestly believe that they have not contributed at least partially to the decline of Boeing? That union protectionism has not affected productivity? That hostile bargaining and strikes hadn’t hurt their finances? Accusing the company of prioritizing greed and blaming the boogeyman of management sounds like a caricature, and not an unbiased perspective.
    - trashtensor 2y ago
      The top comment in this thread highlights the astonishing sums of money the shareholders were taking from the company. If you think the workers are to blame for the state of their finances you are either ignoring the facts or you are in here dishonestly trying to push a narrative.
    - OxO4 2y ago
      Often, people try justify high pay for management positions by pointing out the responsibilities that comes with such a position. If that's the case, then it only makes sense to place blame on management when things go sideways. If not, then what exactly is the value that management adds to the company that justifies their high pay?
hungie 2y ago
Good. Jim McNerney absolutely shredded the culture, and eroded decades of good will. It's far past time workers for Boeing pressed for things to go back to being an engineering and manufacturing led company. Striking is one way to get closer to that, good on them.
- tempodox 2y ago
  Reclaiming control from the beancounters and misers to rein in their destructive influence? I'm not optimistic.
- M95D 2y ago
  Ever heard of a stock-price led company that "went back to being an engineering and manufacturing led company"?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Depends on how deeply you know the story of GE, which was an engineering company, became a financial services company, and now is back to engineering.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      I think GP meant went back successfully. Whether today's GE will ultimately be successful remains to be seen.
    - harimau777 2y ago
      Do you have any more information on that? I worked for GE in the past and would like to do so again; however, I'd avoided them because it seemed like they'd been run into the ground.
    - paxys 2y ago
      > and now is back to engineering There is no company called GE anymore. Most of its engineering units were sold off to other companies which just license its brand. GE appliances, for example, are actually Haier. GE Lighting was sold to a home automation startup. GE's biggest value creator today is its brand name, not its engineering.
csomar 2y ago
https://archive.is/2X1KV https://archive.is/2X1KV
iancmceachern 2y ago
Any Boeing engineers who may be looking for alternate paths, please know that I've known many great aerospace engineers who have made a pivot to medical devices very successfully and many of the best medical devices to come out in recent years are due to such. It seems very different but really it's very similar.
- bibelo 2y ago
  or they could come here to Toulouse to work for Airbus ^^
  - echelon 2y ago
    Boeing engineers should leave and start their own company. "American dynamism" is hot right now and there should be ample funding available. Lots of the old dinosaurs are being nipped at by nimble upstarts like Anduril.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Have you seen how much lambasting Boom Aerospace gets every time they come up? Starting a new aerospace company isn't for the faint of heart!
      - sealeck 2y ago
        I agree but not because "boohoo people aren't nice enough to us" – because it's a tough market to break into with (justifiably) high regulatory scrutiny, high R&D costs and few investors who know what they are doing. It's very natural that any company be subject to scrutiny – this doesn't mean that you shouldn't set up a company or that the environment for setting up a company isn't favourable.
      - GuB-42 2y ago
        Well, Boom is not any aerospace company, they want to make supersonic planes. Supersonic travel is expensive and environmentally unfriendly, and it will probably always be, because it requires more energy, because physics. All that for the minor advantage of saving a couple of hours on select flights. What it means is that it is a privilege for the wealthy (because it is expensive for what you get), at the expense of everyone else (because of the environment). So of course it is going to be unpopular, except to the wealthy in question. It doesn't mean Boom can't be successful because the public opinion is negative, if the rich can pay. I am still not convinced though, after all, Concorde didn't fail technically (and it still flew after that one accident), it failed commercially. Boom is not taking the easy path here, since it is a technically hard problem with a dubious market.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
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Hypocritelefty 2y ago
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honeybadger1 2y ago
Trying not to see it black and white because I do support unions to a point but it is hard not to think negative things about a union being pushy at a place like Boeing. I know one engineer there and she was incredibly bright. I'm hoping for the best outcome so they win and everyone in the USA wins because a company like Boeing nose diving is bad for everyone.
- sealeck 2y ago
  > it is hard not to think negative things about a union being pushy at a place like Boeing Hard not to think negative things about a union being "pushy" at a place where there are serious cultural failings around safety, the company has engaged on a decades-long campaign of financial engineering where it has slashed investment into the company and instead paid out huge dividents to its shareholders, and the company regularly pursues and demonises whistleblowers (partly in what a cynical person might term collusion with the regulator, but also independently) who attempt to apply pressure to the company to improve and inform the public about the risk to life that the dangerous practices the finance types at Boeing have adopted.
wtcactus 2y ago
Unlike the idea I’ve initially got from reading some of the comments here, the workers aren’t striking for long overdue measures that will save the company and get engineers back in charge of Boeing. They are striking to get the biggest share possible of the pie before Boeing completely crumbles down. Reading the news, there isn’t a single demand from the workers that’s about trying to get the company back on its feet.
- VerminOctopus1 2y ago
  And why would they demand that? That’s management’s responsibility. The workers want fair compensation for their labor.
  - ericd 2y ago
    Because they have a set of specialized skills with only a few potential buyers, and if they kill this one, they’ll have very limited options that use their skills without massively uprooting their lives.
    - coldpie 2y ago
      The workers aren't the ones killing the company.
      - droopyEyelids 2y ago
        This is obviously true but one of the biggest privileges of management is being able to deny this specific bit of reality
      - ericd 2y ago
        If you reread what I was replying to, I was saying they might want to demand changes to management because it’s in their best interest to demand those changes, focusing only on short term benefit to themselves is harmful to their long term best interest. And organized labor does have the power to severely damage the companies they’re part of it’s not all one group or the other.
underseacables 2y ago
Boeing has been on a deathwatch for years now. I predict before the year is out. We will see something about a bankruptcy filing.
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Havoc 2y ago
Just watched a documentary on Boeing an hour ago. It’s incredible that they avoided criminal prosecution despite two planes crashing, door popping out and then paperwork somehow going AWOL. Also Boeing knew about wiring issues since 2022 and the FAA only issues an inspection order in ‘24. Gonna try and avoid Boeings of all types going forward
- mnau 2y ago
  They hired the lead prosecutor that cut them a deal. To be precise a Boeing criminal defence firma hired her after she left the Justice department. It's the American way.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - marcusverus 2y ago
    > Boeing’s lead corporate criminal defense law firm is Kirkland & Ellis. Cox, the lead prosecutor in the Boeing case, left the Justice Department earlier this year. And last month she joined Kirkland & Ellis as a partner in its Dallas office. It looks like the firm bought the prosecutor, resulting in a win for its client. How could this be prevented, though? Politicians can't be trusted with oversight like this--they would use it to punish prosecutors and would inevitably further politicize the Justice Dept. https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/lead-boeing-prosecutor-joins-boeing-corporate-criminal-defense-firm-kirkland-ellis/ https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/lead-boeing-...
    - evilos 2y ago
      Can't a law be passed that states prosecutors legally cannot consult or assist in cases or for defendants they were involved with during their tenure as a prosecutor for X years after they leave their position?
      - para_parolu 2y ago
gigachadbro 2y ago
[flagged]
mlindner 2y ago
They're voting to strike right as the new CEO gets in? That's kind of the worst time possible to improve the situation at Boeing. All you're doing is creating an antagonistic environment with your boss. So dumb.
- diggan 2y ago
  Imagine thinking that people should stop thinking of their own best because it might create "an antagonistic environment"... How about making the conditions good enough for employees so they don't have to strike to get some basic benefits and OK salary for performed work? If the executive team doesn't want to people to be comfortable at their work, it feels a bit unfair to put "creating an antagonistic environment" on the employees.
- thinkingtoilet 2y ago
  Some of us don't like the taste of dirt licked off a boot. They'll be fine.
  - spacemadness 2y ago
    There is an insane amount of “bootlicking” being posted here. I’d say it’s astroturfing but really it’s likely decades of brainwashing. Time to go watch some Amazon union busting videos in my right to work state.
- dh2022 2y ago
  So when Boeing was shopping this summer for a new boss I was thinking the new boss would negotiate with the board worker pay increases related to the upcoming union contract. It looks like the new boss was not smart enough to ask for a big worker pay increase (or maybe did not ask at all). Looks like not a good place for Boeing. BTW - there is another contract due in 2026. Hmm, another strike in a couple of years? Will Boeing be in a better place or worse place in 2 years? Interesting times ahead. https://investors.boeing.com/investors/news/press-release-details/2020/Boeing-and-SPEEA-Announce-a-Tentative-Agreement-on-Four-Year-Contract-Extension/default.aspx/1000/ https://investors.boeing.com/investors/news/press-release-de...
lifesaver_mint 2y ago
[flagged]
segasaturn 2y ago
[flagged]
- glitchc 2y ago
  Consider organizing at your workplace then. If workers have a mechanism for sharing their concerns, more power to them.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  You blame Boeing’s quality problems on the wage workers and not management And you drag their union for the reason that you consider yourself lucky and gracious for receiving an under inflation raise with no retirement benefits That’s crab mentality - totally unnecessary to drag others down to your level when their success costs you nothing and only stands to benefit you too through their infectious solidarity
- beezlebroxxxxxx 2y ago
  That 25% raise is on the amount agreed upon in their CBA in 2008. So they haven't really gotten a fully negotiated raise since 2008. You would probably reject that as well, unless you were desperate.
- uses 2y ago
  Which ones are "these unions", or is this just a generic shaking fist at cloud moment? > I was lucky to get a 5% raise this year and my wage is frozen until next year, basic insurance and absolutely no pension I mean... maybe you should join a union? > The workers of the union clearly aren't even doing a good job considering how many mechanical failures have affected their jets! I guess you're trolling, but obviously the leadership who made the strategic decisions over decades that lead to these problems are not members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 751.
- DrillShopper 2y ago
  Boeing as an independent entity may not exist in six months to a year if they can’t get their shit together - either someone will buy them or the government will nationalize/bail them out. Get all you can while you can. The riskier your business is the more labor costs.
AndrewKemendo 2y ago
In my mind, this is an unalloyed good The practice alone of organizing labor power against owners, irrespective of the demands, given the existing state of the world, is what is needed to show Class solidarity. Simply showing class solidarity in order to kick off other strikes is valuable in and of itself. Y’all really have to understand a general strike is coming. A general strike means the labor class (you most likely), which is the group of people who do not primarily gain their income from passive investments, and are reliant on contracts that they don’t create or control which provide them very little control over their economic future, stop working in order to put extreme pressure on the group of people who do control those contracts and who do control capital. Such a system is foundationally unethical, and should be Deconstructed as rapidly as possible with the expropriation of all that capital to the rightful owners: the people actually producing the value, and done in a way that’s not under duress, such that you do not have to take whatever dog shit contract is put in front of you
- Nifty3929 2y ago
  This is an ancient and universal idea, that has failed to deliver prosperity and growth, and often drives societies that were once flourishing into starvation. Capitalism is the new, cool, unique idea that has actually delivered prosperity for society. Not perfectly evenly, but certainly more evenly than other ideas like socialism, fascism and feudalism.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    You're conflating political and economic systems here. Capitalism is fully compatible with fascism. And it emerged out of and is an evolution of manorialism, the economic system used under european feudalism.
    - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
      Not just compatible, but capitalism requires fascism because by default it alienates the person doing work from capturing the value via exploiting the variability in standard of living and environmental sustainability. Economists call this “arbitrage” which is a fancy word for, “Someone can dominate you economically and you have no legal avenue to avoid it.” Proudhon covered this thoroughly in “What is property”
mc32 2y ago
Maybe in this contract they both can have provisions in for poor workmanship and poor engineering decisions. Both for the shop floor as well as the management. You ship defects, you get salary or bonus deductions and vestments pulled.
- advisedwang 2y ago
  Typically quality improvement programs don't rely on punishing mistakes. Doing so results in people hiding mistakes, pressuring QA people to do a worse job etc. Now if the issue is malice and not mistakes - then you can apply discipline. And indeed most union contracts do still have a process for discipline.
danielodievich 2y ago
During national neighbor night out few weeks ago I met a couple who just moved to the neighborhood, wife is a doctor and husband is a Boeing engineer in the material science something rather. Me being a huge Boeing fan we've immediately connected on the topic of Boeing's issues. His view from inside echoed mine - too many MBAs, too much focus on financial engineering and stock buybacks and shareholder returns (he was LIVID about Boeing having no cash now because they sent it back to shareholders), too little focus on engineering. I touched on the nextgen (79?7) program and he just shook his head. And the CEO based out of wherever but not Seattle is just a huge spit into everyone's face. I don't think Boeing is going down due to it being well, Boeing, but it will likely need to get bailed out if it goes on like that. So go machinists!
- RaftPeople 2y ago
  > And the CEO based out of wherever but not Seattle is just a huge spit into everyone's face. The news reported that the new CEO said he chose to be based in Seattle. From Seattle Times: Kelly Ortberg, the new CEO of Boeing whose appointment was announced Wednesday morning, has chosen to be based in Seattle.
- squigz 2y ago
  Why would bailing out Boeing be a good idea?
  - cwmma 2y ago
    because it's too big to fail.
  - danielodievich 2y ago
    Um, they are one half of duopoly of widebody aircraft makers, they are a huge portion of high technology export from USA, they are in every state (for better or worse), they are a defense provider of insane importance with planes, rockets and satellites. Yeah, they're strategically essential to this country's abilities in airspace. I have no doubt they'd get bailed out. With a huge stink but they will.
cchance 2y ago
Good! Fuck boeing the company/executives, the merger with McDonnell Douglas totally fucked that company! Profits over safety and performance fucked boeing over
benced 2y ago
A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking and (potentially separately), what it will take to make Boeing an American great again.
- kedean 2y ago
  It's not totally clear to me, but it is telling that the union members specifically say boeing needs to "stop breaking the law" and that the rejected deal included an allegedly large pay increase. 96% turning that down doesn't feel like the increase just wasn't enough to me
  - hosh 2y ago
    It goes with the perception of corporate greed. Boeing stocks have shot up, profits are not being shared, and those profits came at a cost of safety, and it isn't as if market share had not still declined against Airbus. I wouldn't be surprised if a machinist used to be able to go home, proud of the work they have done, and now, it is not so.
    - goda90 2y ago
      And if the culture destroys Boeing and its reputation in the end, the machinists are going to be struggling to find new jobs. "Sorry, we don't want someone who built bad airplanes to work on this other safety critical thing."
      - bitmasher9 2y ago
        The larger economy just doesn’t have enough similar positions to absorb all of the Boeing employees without them having to significantly reskill. Not to mention after you build airplanes going to build most anything else might feel like a downgrade.
zardo 2y ago
The negotiating team has to be pretty out of touch with the members to reach a deal that's rejected with 96% of the vote.
- cwmma 2y ago
  Not really, the negotiation team gets the best deal that can get that doesn't involving going on strike and they present that to the union which is then better informed for their vote.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    Correct rejecting the companies "best and final" contract is basically par for the course in union negotiations. The company is banking on being able to outlast the strike to get a better deal than the union would otherwise agree to or betting on the government coming in an kneecapping the union and forcing the workers to accept a deal like happened with the ATC and train operator unions when they struck (striked? struck doesn't sound right in the context of a union strike for some reason...).
    - elwell 2y ago
      > struck "went on strike"
HeavyStorm 2y ago
Am I the only one seeing a bit of naivette from the union? While I've been observing the whole Boeing debacle I don't know their financials, but I can only assume they are bad. Couldn't such a large strike take the company to the brink? I know during turmoil you can usually negotiate better terms, but...
- SixDouble5321 2y ago
  Boeing might be too big to fail. Even if they fail all the time, they have guaranteed government money. Defense and space are lucrative.
Nemo_bis 2y ago
The union's information: https://www.iam751.org/?zone=/unionactive/private_view_page.cfm&page=IAM2FBoeing20Contract202024 https://www.iam751.org/?zone=/unionactive/private_view_page....

563 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

> [...] voted in favor of the strike, some 96 percent — far more than the two-thirds needed to launch the work stoppage. > The Biden administration was monitoring the situation; acting Labor Secretary Julie Su has been in contact with both sides. If it's important enough for the whitehouse to get involved, then the union members have incredible leverage. It's telling that 96% voted against the deal. They know they can get a better one.

willcipriano 2y ago
Tell that to the railroad workers.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Boeing spent $43B on stock buybacks between 2013 and 2019 while paying their CEO ~$30M/year. > To support its share price, the company under McNerney poured billions into stock buybacks instead of investing profits into the kind of research and development needed to stay competitive. McNerney decided not to spend billions of dollars building a new plane to replace the 737. Instead, Boeing tweaked and updated the existing model and called it the 737 Max, outfitting it with larger, more efficient engines for increased economy. Compensating for the resulting instability was a secretive automated system called MCAS that would adjust the plane’s pitch without input from the pilot. > McNerney also fought to deeply cut costs. On his watch, the company opened its first non-unionized aircraft production line and initiated a program called “Partnering for Success” that pushed suppliers to cut their prices by 15 percent or more. Many feared that squeezing suppliers would harm the quality of their components, but McNerney was determined to recoup the cost of the 787’s development; if the subcontractors complained, they could find their work taken away from them, as happened to landing-gear-maker United Technologies Aerospace Systems. > McNerney retired in 2015, handpicking his successor, president and COO Dennis Muilenburg. Over the next three years, Boeing’s stock price more than doubled as it sold new planes the world over. (As Bloomberg News reported, Muilenberg and McNerney “had personal reasons to emphasize productivity and cost-cutting” because their compensation was tied to share performance. Together they took $209 million in total pay over seven years.) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/boeing-planes-problems-stock-price-shareholders.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/boeing-planes-proble...

hinkley 2y ago
They started new factories in new states to try to break the unions in Seattle.
- IntelMiner 2y ago
  Boeing fleeing Seattle while trying to cheerfully pretend they're a "Washington company" was absolutely disgraceful
  - beaglesss 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - sofixa 2y ago
    They moved their HQ to Chicago and then DC to focus on government contracts (they suck at those too), so "Washington company" is extra funny.
    - extraduder_ire 2y ago
      I mean, any company based in DC can call itself a Washington company.
    - hinkley 2y ago
      Technically they also had offices in St Louis after the coup. The MD people moved to Chicago. And I hope every single one of them was a Cardinals fan.
- rob74 2y ago
  ...with resounding success: > In 2019, following the discovery of exterior damage on planes manufactured in Charleston [the non-unionized factory], for a time Qatar Airways would only accept delivery of Dreamliners assembled in Everett [the unionized factory]. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina#Quality-control_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina#Quality-...) But then they moved all 787 production to North Charleston, so problem solved.

forrestthewoods 2y ago

It should be illegal* to post articles about strikes without including details on current deal, current offer, and union demands. All these pieces try to influence your opinion without providing any details! Maybe the union demands are reasonable, or maybe they're not. Give me specifics please! *obvious hyperbole

calcifer 2y ago
> Maybe the union demands are reasonable, or maybe they're not. Give me specifics please! Would that really help, though? Do you have the industry know-how, expertise, and internal knowledge to assess whether the offer is reasonable or not?
- ikawe 2y ago
  I’m not an expert, but I’d like to know more. To me it’s interesting to know what the workers are concerned about specifically. Otherwise it just reads like “lots of people are mad”. Well about what exactly? It’s fine for a headline, but not very impressive reporting.
  - calcifer 2y ago
    That much I agree with. I'd like to know more too, but I won't pretend it would be because I'd like to judge it for reasonableness :)
    - zo1 2y ago
      That's the whole point of journalism. Right now, they gave neither the facts that the GP wanted, nor the context and understanding that you may need to be comfortable enough to judge it's reasonableness within the context of the strike/industry/company. It's like a BS meeting by a BS manager that he holds for "stakeholders" where he just throws a bunch of facts on the table, and then proceeds to do nothing to guide the decision making process. And then during the whole meeting we all run around like headless chickens trying to find out more info and context, all half-arguing with one another because we all have different pieces of the puzzle. </rant> Sorry had one of these just yesterday, and no matter how delicately I phrased or insinuated-it the person with the most info/context just did not offer up guidance and direction (ironically it's the same person that organized the meeting). Then at the end they gave praise to all those that contributed and then said they'll schedule another meeting to discuss the outcomes because we "couldn't reach consensus" or "decide on the next course of action".

beaglesss 2y ago

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weweweoo 2y ago
Yes, firing ordinary workers and moving production elsewhere is definitely going to fix bad management and rotten company culture on top level. Boeing management created the 737MAX fiasco and killed those people.
bilbo0s 2y ago
It's Boeing man. I won't get into too many specifics, but there's a reason they call it ScreamLiner. And it ain't because final assembly in the Carolinas is implemented to exacting, high quality standards, by excellent and exemplary employees. There are a lot of poor performers throughout Boeing. Starting with their C-Suite execs.
ulfw 2y ago
The people who decided to build the 737 max were sitting in Chicago at the time and now are sucking up to Washington politicians from Arlington County, Virginia
hungie 2y ago
I don't think you understand who made the max and why it failed.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  Sure it's failed from the floor workers because they forgot the plug door needs bolted. It's failed other ways due to the other (SPEEA) union botching the MCAS. Sometimes it's easy to lose track of how basically all the Washington unions are so broken in their homicidal negligence while begging for more money to fail miserably.
  - sofixa 2y ago
    The MCAS failure was a multilayered one. The engineers who designed it, software engineers who developed it, QA, testing, pilots, managers who approved, managers who instilled that work culture, etc etc are all responsible and should all have been fired and sentenced to prison for their negligence and dereliction of duty.

DevX101 2y ago

Defeat for the company or defeat for shareholders? These things are not the same.

Y-bar 2y ago
Depends on if you are a shareholder for the long terms (many years) or a short-term trader. I don't own stock in Boeing (or any of their main competitors), but when there is a strike like this in a company I hold stock in I generally get more bullish for the long term because it means that: 1. It signals employees still care about the company enough to not just quit and go elsewhere. And employees who care make a better product. 2. Negotiating better benefits generally helps retain the solid "middle class" who make the brunt of the work in a company. It might not entice the "rock-stars" or so, but they generally are not dis-incentivised by their colleagues getting better benefits either. 3. The C-suite gets to know they are not untouchable, this also helps keep them level when answering to the board of directors.
- csomar 2y ago
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  - immibis 2y ago
    How do you measure a company's "health"?
  - notrealyme123 2y ago
    Such a black and white view of things. But for simplicity, remind me again who does the work, and who cheaps out on plane parts to drive up revenue?
  - photonthug 2y ago
    > There are very few good stories with unions but most of them are tragic especially long-term. Since unions helped to end practices like child labor and what amounted to indentured service, I’m not sure you know what “tragic” or “long term” means. If what you mean is more like “what have they done for us lately”, you should probably just say it and start that conversation instead

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

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NotACop182 2y ago
Maybe had the company not prioritized greed and instead invested in itself they wouldn’t be in this mess. Don’t blame the workers for this and a company that depends so heavily on the government to keep it afloat shouldn’t be allowed to buyback stocks. Unions in a good place because Boeing isn’t going anywhere. Mismanagement allowed the greedy management to cash out already why not the workers.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I see this repeated often - blame placed entirely on management and not the workers. Why do you believe that? Do you honestly believe that they have not contributed at least partially to the decline of Boeing? That union protectionism has not affected productivity? That hostile bargaining and strikes hadn’t hurt their finances? Accusing the company of prioritizing greed and blaming the boogeyman of management sounds like a caricature, and not an unbiased perspective.
  - trashtensor 2y ago
    The top comment in this thread highlights the astonishing sums of money the shareholders were taking from the company. If you think the workers are to blame for the state of their finances you are either ignoring the facts or you are in here dishonestly trying to push a narrative.
  - OxO4 2y ago
    Often, people try justify high pay for management positions by pointing out the responsibilities that comes with such a position. If that's the case, then it only makes sense to place blame on management when things go sideways. If not, then what exactly is the value that management adds to the company that justifies their high pay?

hungie 2y ago

Good. Jim McNerney absolutely shredded the culture, and eroded decades of good will. It's far past time workers for Boeing pressed for things to go back to being an engineering and manufacturing led company. Striking is one way to get closer to that, good on them.

tempodox 2y ago
Reclaiming control from the beancounters and misers to rein in their destructive influence? I'm not optimistic.
M95D 2y ago
Ever heard of a stock-price led company that "went back to being an engineering and manufacturing led company"?
- fragmede 2y ago
  Depends on how deeply you know the story of GE, which was an engineering company, became a financial services company, and now is back to engineering.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    I think GP meant went back successfully. Whether today's GE will ultimately be successful remains to be seen.
  - harimau777 2y ago
    Do you have any more information on that? I worked for GE in the past and would like to do so again; however, I'd avoided them because it seemed like they'd been run into the ground.
  - paxys 2y ago
    > and now is back to engineering There is no company called GE anymore. Most of its engineering units were sold off to other companies which just license its brand. GE appliances, for example, are actually Haier. GE Lighting was sold to a home automation startup. GE's biggest value creator today is its brand name, not its engineering.

csomar 2y ago

https://archive.is/2X1KV https://archive.is/2X1KV

iancmceachern 2y ago

Any Boeing engineers who may be looking for alternate paths, please know that I've known many great aerospace engineers who have made a pivot to medical devices very successfully and many of the best medical devices to come out in recent years are due to such. It seems very different but really it's very similar.

bibelo 2y ago
or they could come here to Toulouse to work for Airbus ^^
- echelon 2y ago
  Boeing engineers should leave and start their own company. "American dynamism" is hot right now and there should be ample funding available. Lots of the old dinosaurs are being nipped at by nimble upstarts like Anduril.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Have you seen how much lambasting Boom Aerospace gets every time they come up? Starting a new aerospace company isn't for the faint of heart!
    - sealeck 2y ago
      I agree but not because "boohoo people aren't nice enough to us" – because it's a tough market to break into with (justifiably) high regulatory scrutiny, high R&D costs and few investors who know what they are doing. It's very natural that any company be subject to scrutiny – this doesn't mean that you shouldn't set up a company or that the environment for setting up a company isn't favourable.
    - GuB-42 2y ago
      Well, Boom is not any aerospace company, they want to make supersonic planes. Supersonic travel is expensive and environmentally unfriendly, and it will probably always be, because it requires more energy, because physics. All that for the minor advantage of saving a couple of hours on select flights. What it means is that it is a privilege for the wealthy (because it is expensive for what you get), at the expense of everyone else (because of the environment). So of course it is going to be unpopular, except to the wealthy in question. It doesn't mean Boom can't be successful because the public opinion is negative, if the rich can pay. I am still not convinced though, after all, Concorde didn't fail technically (and it still flew after that one accident), it failed commercially. Boom is not taking the easy path here, since it is a technically hard problem with a dubious market.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

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Hypocritelefty 2y ago

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honeybadger1 2y ago

Trying not to see it black and white because I do support unions to a point but it is hard not to think negative things about a union being pushy at a place like Boeing. I know one engineer there and she was incredibly bright. I'm hoping for the best outcome so they win and everyone in the USA wins because a company like Boeing nose diving is bad for everyone.

sealeck 2y ago
> it is hard not to think negative things about a union being pushy at a place like Boeing Hard not to think negative things about a union being "pushy" at a place where there are serious cultural failings around safety, the company has engaged on a decades-long campaign of financial engineering where it has slashed investment into the company and instead paid out huge dividents to its shareholders, and the company regularly pursues and demonises whistleblowers (partly in what a cynical person might term collusion with the regulator, but also independently) who attempt to apply pressure to the company to improve and inform the public about the risk to life that the dangerous practices the finance types at Boeing have adopted.

wtcactus 2y ago

Unlike the idea I’ve initially got from reading some of the comments here, the workers aren’t striking for long overdue measures that will save the company and get engineers back in charge of Boeing. They are striking to get the biggest share possible of the pie before Boeing completely crumbles down. Reading the news, there isn’t a single demand from the workers that’s about trying to get the company back on its feet.

VerminOctopus1 2y ago
And why would they demand that? That’s management’s responsibility. The workers want fair compensation for their labor.
- ericd 2y ago
  Because they have a set of specialized skills with only a few potential buyers, and if they kill this one, they’ll have very limited options that use their skills without massively uprooting their lives.
  - coldpie 2y ago
    The workers aren't the ones killing the company.
    - droopyEyelids 2y ago
      This is obviously true but one of the biggest privileges of management is being able to deny this specific bit of reality
    - ericd 2y ago
      If you reread what I was replying to, I was saying they might want to demand changes to management because it’s in their best interest to demand those changes, focusing only on short term benefit to themselves is harmful to their long term best interest. And organized labor does have the power to severely damage the companies they’re part of it’s not all one group or the other.

underseacables 2y ago

Boeing has been on a deathwatch for years now. I predict before the year is out. We will see something about a bankruptcy filing.

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Havoc 2y ago

Just watched a documentary on Boeing an hour ago. It’s incredible that they avoided criminal prosecution despite two planes crashing, door popping out and then paperwork somehow going AWOL. Also Boeing knew about wiring issues since 2022 and the FAA only issues an inspection order in ‘24. Gonna try and avoid Boeings of all types going forward

mnau 2y ago
They hired the lead prosecutor that cut them a deal. To be precise a Boeing criminal defence firma hired her after she left the Justice department. It's the American way.
- deleted 2y ago
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- marcusverus 2y ago
  > Boeing’s lead corporate criminal defense law firm is Kirkland & Ellis. Cox, the lead prosecutor in the Boeing case, left the Justice Department earlier this year. And last month she joined Kirkland & Ellis as a partner in its Dallas office. It looks like the firm bought the prosecutor, resulting in a win for its client. How could this be prevented, though? Politicians can't be trusted with oversight like this--they would use it to punish prosecutors and would inevitably further politicize the Justice Dept. https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/lead-boeing-prosecutor-joins-boeing-corporate-criminal-defense-firm-kirkland-ellis/ https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/lead-boeing-...
  - evilos 2y ago
    Can't a law be passed that states prosecutors legally cannot consult or assist in cases or for defendants they were involved with during their tenure as a prosecutor for X years after they leave their position?
    - para_parolu 2y ago

gigachadbro 2y ago

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mlindner 2y ago

They're voting to strike right as the new CEO gets in? That's kind of the worst time possible to improve the situation at Boeing. All you're doing is creating an antagonistic environment with your boss. So dumb.

diggan 2y ago
Imagine thinking that people should stop thinking of their own best because it might create "an antagonistic environment"... How about making the conditions good enough for employees so they don't have to strike to get some basic benefits and OK salary for performed work? If the executive team doesn't want to people to be comfortable at their work, it feels a bit unfair to put "creating an antagonistic environment" on the employees.
thinkingtoilet 2y ago
Some of us don't like the taste of dirt licked off a boot. They'll be fine.
- spacemadness 2y ago
  There is an insane amount of “bootlicking” being posted here. I’d say it’s astroturfing but really it’s likely decades of brainwashing. Time to go watch some Amazon union busting videos in my right to work state.
dh2022 2y ago
So when Boeing was shopping this summer for a new boss I was thinking the new boss would negotiate with the board worker pay increases related to the upcoming union contract. It looks like the new boss was not smart enough to ask for a big worker pay increase (or maybe did not ask at all). Looks like not a good place for Boeing. BTW - there is another contract due in 2026. Hmm, another strike in a couple of years? Will Boeing be in a better place or worse place in 2 years? Interesting times ahead. https://investors.boeing.com/investors/news/press-release-details/2020/Boeing-and-SPEEA-Announce-a-Tentative-Agreement-on-Four-Year-Contract-Extension/default.aspx/1000/ https://investors.boeing.com/investors/news/press-release-de...

lifesaver_mint 2y ago

[flagged]

segasaturn 2y ago

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glitchc 2y ago
Consider organizing at your workplace then. If workers have a mechanism for sharing their concerns, more power to them.
wahnfrieden 2y ago
You blame Boeing’s quality problems on the wage workers and not management And you drag their union for the reason that you consider yourself lucky and gracious for receiving an under inflation raise with no retirement benefits That’s crab mentality - totally unnecessary to drag others down to your level when their success costs you nothing and only stands to benefit you too through their infectious solidarity
beezlebroxxxxxx 2y ago
That 25% raise is on the amount agreed upon in their CBA in 2008. So they haven't really gotten a fully negotiated raise since 2008. You would probably reject that as well, unless you were desperate.
uses 2y ago
Which ones are "these unions", or is this just a generic shaking fist at cloud moment? > I was lucky to get a 5% raise this year and my wage is frozen until next year, basic insurance and absolutely no pension I mean... maybe you should join a union? > The workers of the union clearly aren't even doing a good job considering how many mechanical failures have affected their jets! I guess you're trolling, but obviously the leadership who made the strategic decisions over decades that lead to these problems are not members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 751.
DrillShopper 2y ago
Boeing as an independent entity may not exist in six months to a year if they can’t get their shit together - either someone will buy them or the government will nationalize/bail them out. Get all you can while you can. The riskier your business is the more labor costs.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

In my mind, this is an unalloyed good The practice alone of organizing labor power against owners, irrespective of the demands, given the existing state of the world, is what is needed to show Class solidarity. Simply showing class solidarity in order to kick off other strikes is valuable in and of itself. Y’all really have to understand a general strike is coming. A general strike means the labor class (you most likely), which is the group of people who do not primarily gain their income from passive investments, and are reliant on contracts that they don’t create or control which provide them very little control over their economic future, stop working in order to put extreme pressure on the group of people who do control those contracts and who do control capital. Such a system is foundationally unethical, and should be Deconstructed as rapidly as possible with the expropriation of all that capital to the rightful owners: the people actually producing the value, and done in a way that’s not under duress, such that you do not have to take whatever dog shit contract is put in front of you

Nifty3929 2y ago
This is an ancient and universal idea, that has failed to deliver prosperity and growth, and often drives societies that were once flourishing into starvation. Capitalism is the new, cool, unique idea that has actually delivered prosperity for society. Not perfectly evenly, but certainly more evenly than other ideas like socialism, fascism and feudalism.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  You're conflating political and economic systems here. Capitalism is fully compatible with fascism. And it emerged out of and is an evolution of manorialism, the economic system used under european feudalism.
  - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
    Not just compatible, but capitalism requires fascism because by default it alienates the person doing work from capturing the value via exploiting the variability in standard of living and environmental sustainability. Economists call this “arbitrage” which is a fancy word for, “Someone can dominate you economically and you have no legal avenue to avoid it.” Proudhon covered this thoroughly in “What is property”

mc32 2y ago

Maybe in this contract they both can have provisions in for poor workmanship and poor engineering decisions. Both for the shop floor as well as the management. You ship defects, you get salary or bonus deductions and vestments pulled.

advisedwang 2y ago
Typically quality improvement programs don't rely on punishing mistakes. Doing so results in people hiding mistakes, pressuring QA people to do a worse job etc. Now if the issue is malice and not mistakes - then you can apply discipline. And indeed most union contracts do still have a process for discipline.

danielodievich 2y ago

During national neighbor night out few weeks ago I met a couple who just moved to the neighborhood, wife is a doctor and husband is a Boeing engineer in the material science something rather. Me being a huge Boeing fan we've immediately connected on the topic of Boeing's issues. His view from inside echoed mine - too many MBAs, too much focus on financial engineering and stock buybacks and shareholder returns (he was LIVID about Boeing having no cash now because they sent it back to shareholders), too little focus on engineering. I touched on the nextgen (79?7) program and he just shook his head. And the CEO based out of wherever but not Seattle is just a huge spit into everyone's face. I don't think Boeing is going down due to it being well, Boeing, but it will likely need to get bailed out if it goes on like that. So go machinists!

RaftPeople 2y ago
> And the CEO based out of wherever but not Seattle is just a huge spit into everyone's face. The news reported that the new CEO said he chose to be based in Seattle. From Seattle Times: Kelly Ortberg, the new CEO of Boeing whose appointment was announced Wednesday morning, has chosen to be based in Seattle.
squigz 2y ago
Why would bailing out Boeing be a good idea?
- cwmma 2y ago
  because it's too big to fail.
- danielodievich 2y ago
  Um, they are one half of duopoly of widebody aircraft makers, they are a huge portion of high technology export from USA, they are in every state (for better or worse), they are a defense provider of insane importance with planes, rockets and satellites. Yeah, they're strategically essential to this country's abilities in airspace. I have no doubt they'd get bailed out. With a huge stink but they will.

cchance 2y ago

Good! Fuck boeing the company/executives, the merger with McDonnell Douglas totally fucked that company! Profits over safety and performance fucked boeing over

benced 2y ago

A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking and (potentially separately), what it will take to make Boeing an American great again.

kedean 2y ago
It's not totally clear to me, but it is telling that the union members specifically say boeing needs to "stop breaking the law" and that the rejected deal included an allegedly large pay increase. 96% turning that down doesn't feel like the increase just wasn't enough to me
- hosh 2y ago
  It goes with the perception of corporate greed. Boeing stocks have shot up, profits are not being shared, and those profits came at a cost of safety, and it isn't as if market share had not still declined against Airbus. I wouldn't be surprised if a machinist used to be able to go home, proud of the work they have done, and now, it is not so.
  - goda90 2y ago
    And if the culture destroys Boeing and its reputation in the end, the machinists are going to be struggling to find new jobs. "Sorry, we don't want someone who built bad airplanes to work on this other safety critical thing."
    - bitmasher9 2y ago
      The larger economy just doesn’t have enough similar positions to absorb all of the Boeing employees without them having to significantly reskill. Not to mention after you build airplanes going to build most anything else might feel like a downgrade.

zardo 2y ago

The negotiating team has to be pretty out of touch with the members to reach a deal that's rejected with 96% of the vote.

cwmma 2y ago
Not really, the negotiation team gets the best deal that can get that doesn't involving going on strike and they present that to the union which is then better informed for their vote.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  Correct rejecting the companies "best and final" contract is basically par for the course in union negotiations. The company is banking on being able to outlast the strike to get a better deal than the union would otherwise agree to or betting on the government coming in an kneecapping the union and forcing the workers to accept a deal like happened with the ATC and train operator unions when they struck (striked? struck doesn't sound right in the context of a union strike for some reason...).
  - elwell 2y ago
    > struck "went on strike"

HeavyStorm 2y ago

Am I the only one seeing a bit of naivette from the union? While I've been observing the whole Boeing debacle I don't know their financials, but I can only assume they are bad. Couldn't such a large strike take the company to the brink? I know during turmoil you can usually negotiate better terms, but...

SixDouble5321 2y ago
Boeing might be too big to fail. Even if they fail all the time, they have guaranteed government money. Defense and space are lucrative.

Nemo_bis 2y ago

The union's information: https://www.iam751.org/?zone=/unionactive/private_view_page.cfm&page=IAM2FBoeing20Contract202024 https://www.iam751.org/?zone=/unionactive/private_view_page....