8 ms·

From what I’ve read I’m almost sure that some people were in fact affected. Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. There was a good article I

From what I’ve read I’m almost sure that some people were in fact affected. Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. There was a good article I read about it once that showed micro damage all over the brain of some victims. However 1500 people is truly a large number. But they do say reported cases, not confirmed.

emchammer 2y ago
What if it is an orbiting particle accelerator? Edward Teller suggested such a thing in the 1980s. It would explain both the worldwide occurrences and deep penetration into brain matter.
LennyHenrysNuts 2y ago
Nah, just Americans being American. Probably kidnapped by aliens and then subjected to a Satanic ritual as well. I need a name for this phenomenon. Maybe North American Hallucination Syndrome, or maybe McDonalds Induced Reality Deviation or something.
SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
As the article states, studies have found (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-havana-syndrome-show-no-brain-damage-or-medical-illness/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-havan...) no clear correlation of self-reported Havana syndrome with any physical indications. I vaguely recall an old article where they did some brain scans of Havana syndrome patients, and found “abnormalities”, but did not compare these scans against any sort of control group.
- _qzhm 2y ago
  One of those things. A guy I work with who I (still) consider to be highly intelligent and down to earth insists he was affected by tests of this in a well known and highly populated metropolitan area, which is well known in that community to have been a target area of directed energy weapons. I didn't believe any of this when I first heard about it but I'm now a skeptic believer. He was able to explain, in detail, what he felt - both physically and mentally - and could name when they happened and for how long. He underwent a bunch of medical and physiological tests as he didn't know what it was at first, mostly because it started to impact his relationship. I'm not sure he even knew about the whole thing until he started searching around on the web for his symptoms and came across others in the same neighborhood where it happened, claiming to have reported similar things. I brushed it off at first as it seemed clear it must have been something else, but it didn't help that in literally every other aspect he's an empirical, grounded, down to Earth and totally intelligent person, an expert in his technical field, etc. Still not sure where I stand on it as it's incredibly difficult to study or even justify scientifically. I'm still not even convinced it was "directed energy". But I do at least believe people who say they've been affected by whatever it was. It's certainly lessened his quality of life, whatever it is.
  - rcxdude 2y ago
    It's worth emphasising in cases like this that even an individual experiencing completely phsycosomatic ('all in their head') symptoms is still experiencing real symptoms. That is, rejecting the idea that your friend's symptoms are caused by energy weapons is not rejecting the idea that he is experiencing negative effects (which to be clear, may still have an 'external' cause)
    - pinkmuffinere 2y ago
      Just to add some context about how extreme psychosomatic stuff can be, one of my friends experienced significant pain at seemingly random parts of his body throughout college, and almost dropped out because it interfered do strongly with his studies. He had physical bruising, which I saw. We did an internship as a team one year, because we had similar interests and I could “be the hands”. It was a long arduous saga. Turns out it was all in his head, he has to just ignore it and convince himself it wasn’t real. He still has occasional pains that he is very suspicious of, it’s very hard to tell when he’s really unwell or his mind is just tricking him.
      - somenameforme 2y ago
        Another example/generalization of this is the opposite of the placebo effect, the nocebo. [1] A person is able to suffer real and measurable effects, up to and including death, based on their belief and expectation of such effects. A well studied example of this is in terminal cancer where patients will die of no clear cause long before the cancer, or any other related effect, could have killed them. The mind is extremely powerful. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Technetium 2y ago
      A commonly disregarded possibility is that it is self-inflicted while asleep: https://sleep.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41606-019-0034-6 https://sleep.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41606-019-...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- schiffern 2y ago
  1,500 cases, and only 80 in this (supposedly the largest) study? Released just after an intelligence agency report said "nothing to see here?" Are we really so naive as to be trusting intelligence agencies at their word now? :-\ Smells a lot like counter-intel. It's a common tactic to use "friendly" scientists to release dismissive reports that shut down public debate on certain topics. People trust scientists ("studies have found" is all you need say), so this can be a very effective technique. Closing the NIH studies only strengthens the smell. Why study something (and risk the 'wrong' information getting out) when you can commit misconduct and then use your own misconduct as an excuse to shut down the investigation?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
piaste 2y ago
> Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. Suppose you are a nation-state, hostile to the USA, that has developed a directed energy weapon. Do you test it: A) on your own citizens (whether willing, deceived, or coerced), B) on citizens of some remote, poor, and/or war-torn country that is unlikely to retaliate against you, or C) on diplomatic personnel from the country with the greatest military and intelligence resources by far, and with a proven history of bombing or invading other countries on both true and false premises? I had never heard of Havana syndrome before, and I have nothing to comment either way on whether the physical symptoms are real and/or have a common cause. But the idea that an enemy state is using a secret weapon prototype to... randomly give headaches to American diplomats? Is bizarre, to say the least.
- schiffern 2y ago
  >Do you test it Who's saying it's a test? Your premise assumes they haven't already done A and B, and after successful testing moved on to C.
  - piaste 2y ago
    Then the scenario becomes: "Sir, the results are in: this weapon causes mild headaches and sleep difficulties lasting a few months." "Excellent! Deploy it against American embassies immediately. Surely this will absolutely cripple their espionage efforts." The idea that it's a side-effect of directed- energy _surveillance_ seems a vastly more sensible hypothesis in every way.
    - e40 2y ago
      Some of the people had mich more severe symptoms than what you describe, but that would undermine your snark.
      - newaccount74 2y ago
        I also suffer from irregular, unexplained headaches. Someone must be microwaving my apartment complex.
somenameforme 2y ago
There was an early report that claimed abnormalities, but by the standards they were using just about everybody would have shown abnormalities - and they consequently did not even have a control group. Contemporary studies from 2024+ onward, using control groups, have found no physical effects or differences whatsoever. [1] I also think it's noteworthy that claimed incidents have been reported just about everywhere, including Western nations. After the scare started, every "enemy" state individual, embassy, and other such facility would have been even more intense than usual surveillance. And absolutely no evidence of any attack of any sort whatsoever has been found. By contrast mass psychogenic illnesses [2] have a lengthy history and their typical effects correlate identically with the typical reported effects of 'Havana Syndrome.' Actually I just noticed Havana Syndrome is now already listed as one of the examples of mass psychogenic illness. Somewhat surprising from Wiki, but accurate nonetheless. [1] - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2816532 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2816532 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness
- hluska 2y ago
  You don’t know enough to diagnose this. Your “accurate nonetheless” is pure speculation.
  - snapcaster 2y ago
    Be careful not to be so open minded your brain falls out
    - theultdev 2y ago
      But also be careful to not be so close minded you suffocate in the sand.
  - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
    The intelligence agencies public vs private statements validate the claims of few isolated directed energy incidents then exacerbated through asocial psychosomatic social incentives until it matured into a mass psychogenic illness. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
a0123 2y ago
You know, the sort of weapon everyone agrees is not possible or feasible at this stage. And definitely not a hysterical reaction based on some people who faked the most common symptoms ever and tried to make it look like something it wasn't by saying "it' s affecting intelligence assets". I have Havana syndrome on a regular basis. But not being an intelligence assets, I get no compensation and no sensationalist article in the press praising my incredible bravery and feeling sorry for me.
- rdzl 2y ago
  Theyre actually very easy to produce, in fact you likely have one in your house. They are known as microwave ovens.
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
  “When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.” Arthur C Clarke
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  I'll say this. I think the The Chinese and Russian security forces are pretty corrupt, even the CIA analogues, that we'd know what it is now.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
> Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. Has there ever been any secret weapon that was not leaked to other states?
akira2501 2y ago
> that showed micro damage all over the brain of some victims. How you do this accurately without a biopsy or autopsy is a good question. The other one is are we sure these people aren't making "lifestyle" choices that are contributing to their health problems? > 1500 people is truly a large number. Given the size of the civil service, this would be close to the number of people with undisclosed drug problems, I would expect.
slaymaker1907 2y ago
I’m not sure, you should look up functional neurological disorder (FND). It’s very much a real disorder, but it’s 100% causes by our subconscious brains. There are honest people who just suddenly lose the ability to walk *or even go blind*. I’m kind of convinced that if there is a symptom, our brains can probably cause it.

emchammer 2y ago

What if it is an orbiting particle accelerator? Edward Teller suggested such a thing in the 1980s. It would explain both the worldwide occurrences and deep penetration into brain matter.

LennyHenrysNuts 2y ago

Nah, just Americans being American. Probably kidnapped by aliens and then subjected to a Satanic ritual as well. I need a name for this phenomenon. Maybe North American Hallucination Syndrome, or maybe McDonalds Induced Reality Deviation or something.

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

As the article states, studies have found (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-havana-syndrome-show-no-brain-damage-or-medical-illness/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-havan...) no clear correlation of self-reported Havana syndrome with any physical indications. I vaguely recall an old article where they did some brain scans of Havana syndrome patients, and found “abnormalities”, but did not compare these scans against any sort of control group.

_qzhm 2y ago
One of those things. A guy I work with who I (still) consider to be highly intelligent and down to earth insists he was affected by tests of this in a well known and highly populated metropolitan area, which is well known in that community to have been a target area of directed energy weapons. I didn't believe any of this when I first heard about it but I'm now a skeptic believer. He was able to explain, in detail, what he felt - both physically and mentally - and could name when they happened and for how long. He underwent a bunch of medical and physiological tests as he didn't know what it was at first, mostly because it started to impact his relationship. I'm not sure he even knew about the whole thing until he started searching around on the web for his symptoms and came across others in the same neighborhood where it happened, claiming to have reported similar things. I brushed it off at first as it seemed clear it must have been something else, but it didn't help that in literally every other aspect he's an empirical, grounded, down to Earth and totally intelligent person, an expert in his technical field, etc. Still not sure where I stand on it as it's incredibly difficult to study or even justify scientifically. I'm still not even convinced it was "directed energy". But I do at least believe people who say they've been affected by whatever it was. It's certainly lessened his quality of life, whatever it is.
- rcxdude 2y ago
  It's worth emphasising in cases like this that even an individual experiencing completely phsycosomatic ('all in their head') symptoms is still experiencing real symptoms. That is, rejecting the idea that your friend's symptoms are caused by energy weapons is not rejecting the idea that he is experiencing negative effects (which to be clear, may still have an 'external' cause)
  - pinkmuffinere 2y ago
    Just to add some context about how extreme psychosomatic stuff can be, one of my friends experienced significant pain at seemingly random parts of his body throughout college, and almost dropped out because it interfered do strongly with his studies. He had physical bruising, which I saw. We did an internship as a team one year, because we had similar interests and I could “be the hands”. It was a long arduous saga. Turns out it was all in his head, he has to just ignore it and convince himself it wasn’t real. He still has occasional pains that he is very suspicious of, it’s very hard to tell when he’s really unwell or his mind is just tricking him.
    - somenameforme 2y ago
      Another example/generalization of this is the opposite of the placebo effect, the nocebo. [1] A person is able to suffer real and measurable effects, up to and including death, based on their belief and expectation of such effects. A well studied example of this is in terminal cancer where patients will die of no clear cause long before the cancer, or any other related effect, could have killed them. The mind is extremely powerful. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Technetium 2y ago
    A commonly disregarded possibility is that it is self-inflicted while asleep: https://sleep.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41606-019-0034-6 https://sleep.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41606-019-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
schiffern 2y ago
1,500 cases, and only 80 in this (supposedly the largest) study? Released just after an intelligence agency report said "nothing to see here?" Are we really so naive as to be trusting intelligence agencies at their word now? :-\ Smells a lot like counter-intel. It's a common tactic to use "friendly" scientists to release dismissive reports that shut down public debate on certain topics. People trust scientists ("studies have found" is all you need say), so this can be a very effective technique. Closing the NIH studies only strengthens the smell. Why study something (and risk the 'wrong' information getting out) when you can commit misconduct and then use your own misconduct as an excuse to shut down the investigation?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

piaste 2y ago

> Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. Suppose you are a nation-state, hostile to the USA, that has developed a directed energy weapon. Do you test it: A) on your own citizens (whether willing, deceived, or coerced), B) on citizens of some remote, poor, and/or war-torn country that is unlikely to retaliate against you, or C) on diplomatic personnel from the country with the greatest military and intelligence resources by far, and with a proven history of bombing or invading other countries on both true and false premises? I had never heard of Havana syndrome before, and I have nothing to comment either way on whether the physical symptoms are real and/or have a common cause. But the idea that an enemy state is using a secret weapon prototype to... randomly give headaches to American diplomats? Is bizarre, to say the least.

schiffern 2y ago
>Do you test it Who's saying it's a test? Your premise assumes they haven't already done A and B, and after successful testing moved on to C.
- piaste 2y ago
  Then the scenario becomes: "Sir, the results are in: this weapon causes mild headaches and sleep difficulties lasting a few months." "Excellent! Deploy it against American embassies immediately. Surely this will absolutely cripple their espionage efforts." The idea that it's a side-effect of directed- energy _surveillance_ seems a vastly more sensible hypothesis in every way.
  - e40 2y ago
    Some of the people had mich more severe symptoms than what you describe, but that would undermine your snark.
    - newaccount74 2y ago
      I also suffer from irregular, unexplained headaches. Someone must be microwaving my apartment complex.

somenameforme 2y ago

There was an early report that claimed abnormalities, but by the standards they were using just about everybody would have shown abnormalities - and they consequently did not even have a control group. Contemporary studies from 2024+ onward, using control groups, have found no physical effects or differences whatsoever. [1] I also think it's noteworthy that claimed incidents have been reported just about everywhere, including Western nations. After the scare started, every "enemy" state individual, embassy, and other such facility would have been even more intense than usual surveillance. And absolutely no evidence of any attack of any sort whatsoever has been found. By contrast mass psychogenic illnesses [2] have a lengthy history and their typical effects correlate identically with the typical reported effects of 'Havana Syndrome.' Actually I just noticed Havana Syndrome is now already listed as one of the examples of mass psychogenic illness. Somewhat surprising from Wiki, but accurate nonetheless. [1] - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2816532 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2816532 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness

hluska 2y ago
You don’t know enough to diagnose this. Your “accurate nonetheless” is pure speculation.
- snapcaster 2y ago
  Be careful not to be so open minded your brain falls out
  - theultdev 2y ago
    But also be careful to not be so close minded you suffocate in the sand.
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  The intelligence agencies public vs private statements validate the claims of few isolated directed energy incidents then exacerbated through asocial psychosomatic social incentives until it matured into a mass psychogenic illness. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

a0123 2y ago

You know, the sort of weapon everyone agrees is not possible or feasible at this stage. And definitely not a hysterical reaction based on some people who faked the most common symptoms ever and tried to make it look like something it wasn't by saying "it' s affecting intelligence assets". I have Havana syndrome on a regular basis. But not being an intelligence assets, I get no compensation and no sensationalist article in the press praising my incredible bravery and feeling sorry for me.

rdzl 2y ago
Theyre actually very easy to produce, in fact you likely have one in your house. They are known as microwave ovens.
fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
“When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.” Arthur C Clarke
AtlasBarfed 2y ago
I'll say this. I think the The Chinese and Russian security forces are pretty corrupt, even the CIA analogues, that we'd know what it is now.

JKCalhoun 2y ago

> Some kind of directed energy weapon from an enemy state. Has there ever been any secret weapon that was not leaked to other states?

akira2501 2y ago

> that showed micro damage all over the brain of some victims. How you do this accurately without a biopsy or autopsy is a good question. The other one is are we sure these people aren't making "lifestyle" choices that are contributing to their health problems? > 1500 people is truly a large number. Given the size of the civil service, this would be close to the number of people with undisclosed drug problems, I would expect.

slaymaker1907 2y ago

I’m not sure, you should look up functional neurological disorder (FND). It’s very much a real disorder, but it’s 100% causes by our subconscious brains. There are honest people who just suddenly lose the ability to walk *or even go blind*. I’m kind of convinced that if there is a symptom, our brains can probably cause it.