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Return-to-Office Mandates Aren't Worth the Talent Risks
- akira2501 2y agoGive managers an "offsite worker budget." Let them have some % of their staff outside the office.
- Mashimo 2y agoI don't understand the first table. "Factors that contribute to Lower Intent to Stay at Job: Average Employees: -8% Intent to stay" https://emt.gartnerweb.com/ngw/globalassets/en/articles/images/factors-that-contribute-to-lower-intent-to-stay-at-a-job.png https://emt.gartnerweb.com/ngw/globalassets/en/articles/imag... Wat? That factor "Intent to stay" contributes to the intent to stay by -8%?
- geraldwhen 2y agoIgnore the bad title. The first column is a factor, like being a manager, a millennial, or a woman. The final column is intent to stay reduction given a RTO mandate. So for all groups, intent to stay is lowered with a RTO mandate. Some groups are more affected than others, or claim to be.
- baq 2y agotranslation: 'Layoffs performed via RTO suffer from adverse selection'
- Rinzler89 2y agoTl;Dr: if you force RTO and other such measures, you'll be left with the lowest performing employees since the best have better employment options and will jump ship to where they get the work conditions they're looking for
- artemonster 2y agoI just WISH this class of decision makers would really understand this. But knowing how stupid, stubborn and out of touch with reality most ppl from mid-upper mgmt up to CEOs can be, I see no hope. Enshittification of home office and hybrid policies are inevitable :(
- HPsquared 2y agoAll the skilled workers that leave, go to somewhere else. Those places improve. It's not all downward.
- bell-cot 2y agoBut if I can get rid of most of the stupid over-paid prima donnas, then expenses will be cut even further, and I'll be able to ... </phb>
- danesparza 2y agoWell now that Gartner has said it, perhaps CEOs will actually hear it. Good grief this has been a strange 4 years.
- benterix 2y agoHopefully. The CEOs act so irrationally (at least in communication to employees) I can imagine they will ignore Gartner, too.
- GabeHamington 2y ago[flagged]
- hibikir 2y agoIt's like anything else that makes the job worse: The people that are first to leave are those with the best alternatives elsewhere, which are often your strongest workers. When some of those leave, your workplace becomes worse for anyone learning from them, which can cause a domino effect. It doesn't matter what it is that makes the job worse: You either provide counterbalancing incentives to your best workers (see retention bonuses after an acquisition) or you are gambling
- skirge 2y agobut if strongest don't interact with juniors you will also loose in long term
- OJFord 2y agoRemote working does not mean interactionless working.
- dave4420 2y agoAdd mentoring to the list of things that need to be done more explicitly in a distributed environment than in an office environment.
- tmottabr 2y agoi work in a company that has people in the team spread all around the world.. strongest does not need to be in the same physical location as the juniors to interact with then, and that has being the case for decades already, it only got easier over time..
- shinycode 2y agoWe use gather.town at work, although irl work is the best, I never talked as much to coworkers in my life. We can share screen and code easily, we ALL have an office space to be alone, to work together or to have meetings. It’s the best version of work I have ever had. Employees are recruited on the criteria of being able to work remotely, without pain and with communication skills but for us it works really great. Working in an open space all my life before has been the worst experience ever. Constant distractions, people talking around, phone ringing, ANR headphones mandatory (and not paid by the employer) etc
- beardyw 2y agoHas anyone studied what drives RTO?
- benterix 2y agoI don't believe a CEO giving an honest answer in such a study and saying, say, (1) they enjoy the feeling of power and having tighter control over their subjects or (2) they just follow their gut feeling in spite the lack of any studies that RTO gives positive net results for the company.
- artemonster 2y agoAlso paying for half empty office space must be constantly bugging all the beancounting „optimizers“
- lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y agoGood optimizers will not react to half empty office space by pushing for RTO. They'll react by pushing for smaller office. So the problem that you pointed out isn't optimization as a concept, it's dumb people.
- wiether 2y agoI worked for a few weeks in a company where coming to office was mandatory. Given the job we were doing, it didn't make sense. Until I learned that the boss was owning the building personally and was renting it to the company. Seen this way, it was much clearer why they wanted to have people in, instead of downsizing or just not having offices at all.
- blitzar 2y agoReal estate costs to 0, variable costs including electricity, heating, cooling to 0, health and safety, workplace insurance, cleaning, catering, security and other cost centre's all gone. It's a beancounting optimisers wet dream.
- 2y ago
- systemtest 2y agoA local company has started an experiment with the 4 day workweek, as the first big company in the country to do so. However 3 of those days are to be spent in the office. There is a dress code. And you need to be passionate, they aren't to looking for a 9-5 mentality. Office parties and company outings aren't mandatory but if you intend to never visit them, you probably aren't a good fit for the company. Hard pass.
- mjburgess 2y agoSounds like a 6 day work-week.
- benterix 2y agoIt sounds like a terrible place to work. I will choose 5-day WFH over 4-day in open-plan office without hesitating for a second.
- systemtest 2y agoThe dress code alone (company polo with an embroidered logo to be worn in the office and during online meetings) would make me pick working 5 days over 4 days, with the same pay. For reasons beyond my comprehension they are number one on the "Best Workplaces Europe 2023" list in the 500+ employees category.
- fnordian_slip 2y agoMight one of the reasons be that these things are easily gamed? And maybe another one, that such workplaces by their nature select employees who would describe themselves as "driven, work-hard-play-hard 10x programmers not looking for a 9-5", and who upper management would probably describe as "suckers", at least behind closed doors? You know, the ones that believe that worker's rights and unions only benefit low-performers, and not alphas like themselves.
- pavel_lishin 2y agoLeaving good reviews is also "not mandatory", but...
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoThe "talent" who wants to leave as soon as you ask them to return to office are probably not the employees you wanted to retain anyway.
- TheCapeGreek 2y agoThe "employers" who want to fire you as soon as you don't want to spend extra unpaid time commuting are probably not the employers you wanted to work for anyway.
- Jiro 2y agoThe employers you want to work for are the ones that pay you a salary so you can eat and pay your mortgage.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoIf you are qualified for that tier of compensation you have plenty of choice in potential employer
- 0x000xca0xfe 2y agoYou must possess great negotiation skills with that attitude.
- TheCapeGreek 2y agoIf you're just looking to survive and pay bills, yeah, take anything. I prefer to also focus on not doing soul destroying work, working with good collaborators, and earning enough to enjoy the rest of my waking hours. That narrows the employment pool down a lot. If you're skilled enough and have options and a network, it can even be more prudent to sit out the employment market and contract for a while until a good role comes along.
- CM30 2y agoIt's especially bad when the company is based in a remote area with few other opportunities in that industry. Now you're not only selecting for people who can easily come to the office on a moment's notice, but people willing to put all their eggs in one basket and (often) live somewhere where your company is the one thing keeping the lights on. And then they wonder why the best talent starts leaving, and the jobs they do start hiring for get few decent applicants...
- Log_out_ 2y agoAdd to that the home office was standardized during corona, so all that talent selling itself short or unable to move found itself surrounded by the world.
- DrBazza 2y agoI'm far more productive in my own quiet and distraction free office than I ever was in a corporate office, even when I had my own there. Open-door policies suck, as do open-plan cubicles. I spent 30 years with a lengthy city commute like many people. There is no way I am ever returning to the office for anything more than a day a month. "Will my train turn up?" "Will my train be on time?" "Will I get home in time for my kids sports game?" "Will I be standing for an hour?" All mentally draining. The quality of life improvement for employees, especially mentally, benefits employers as well.
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoDon't forget the best part: your own executive bathroom. I.e., your home bathroom.
- DrBazza 2y agoHaha! Yes. And my own kitchen that no one leaves in a complete mess or steals my snacks.
- ryandrake 2y agoIt's hard to over-emphasize how important having a quiet, dedicated, private working space is to making WFH enjoyable. I am fortunate enough to have a separate out-building on my property for my WFH office. The building contains the actual (10'x8') air-conditioned, heated office, plus a bathroom, and a partial kitchen (coffee maker and refrigerator). This setup is far superior to any traditional office I've ever worked in. There's just no comparison. I think a lot of people who "hated WFH" had to do it out of necessity during a global pandemic, in the middle of their living room or bedroom that they shared with family or roommates. Big difference.
- DrBazza 2y agoI totally agree. WFH also best suits senior devs (by age), that have larger homes rather than apartments or sharing apartments.
- kibbi 2y agoI prefer to work intensely and collaboratively in an office. This is how I'd do it: Three in-office days, same weekdays for everyone (e.g. Monday to Wednesday). The choice to have a 5-day or 4-day week. An energetic, quietly humming work atmosphere, with incidental information sharing and a spirit of collaboration, with colleagues present and nearby, sounds best for me personally. Among other advantages, the presence of coworkers helps me focus. Different strokes for different folks. Obviously, the prerequisite is that it's a team of nice people you like being around. Sure, people who prefer to work from home would leave that company. That doesn't mean that this company will lack talent. People who do want to work like that will join it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- foinker 2y agoCEOs, VCs, and other managers do not give one flying fuck about talented people leaving. When talented people leave, they're replaced with cheaper people who can do decent enough work that the quality of the end product doesn't noticeably suffer. Come to think of it, they also don't really give a fuck if the quality of the end product suffers.
- OfficeChad 2y ago[dead]
- exsomet 2y agoA company I used to work for during the pandemic (before becoming a founder) was very very deep into the culture wars of RTO mandates. They had a cycle of HR making big sweeping proclamations, followed by leadership (a group I was part of) spending 2-3 months trying to corral the raging employee anthill it created, settling into a norm of no one really doing it, and then a few months later HR would decree RTO and start the cycle all over again. It was hugely frustrating and disruptive to a workforce that, at the engineering level, really just wanted to do good work they could be satisfied with and live their lives outside of that. The overwhelming sense that I had was just confusion. It was a company who’s entire overcomplicated and wildly over engineered business essentially ground down to running a very niche and specific service for our clients. They spent _so much_ time focusing on RTO chaos and changing internal systems, reorgs, reworking processes, moving and consolidating branches; things that are NOT “run this service for our customers”. I am always just baffled at the amount of attention this type of thing gets from companies. As a now-owner, my feeling is that you should care about exactly one thing: doing $YOURS_BUSINESS more so that customers give you money. Anything that distracts from that is something that deserves the minimum amount of attention you can give it to be dealt with before getting back to your core business of doing the thing you’re good at so people give you money. RTO mandates (note: not working in office as I recognize some people’s preference for that, but the mandate) are so hugely distracting and bear such an enormous cost in talent, finances, productivity - it touches every area of the business in a negative way. I will never understand how some people can justify it to themselves, not because of some moral argument or anything but just because of the distraction and cost it causes. But, it was the final push I needed to go do my own thing, and that’s a very happy new norm for me. So maybe I should be thanking them?
- datavirtue 2y agoSounds like typical bike shedding. They have severe culture problems and they are runninh down every comfortable path to address them, unsuccessfully. I was in a lunch with our CEO where he told us about all the issues he is trying to address related to generational shifts and succession. While trying to explain that we need to be attractive to generation Z and Millennials he insults them (with some in the room) with littany of stereotypes lifted straight from articles he read on the internet. Dude is clueless, and he knows it and is just trying stuff to keep the board happy until he can cash out.
- hirvi74 2y agoI think the talent risks are very company dependent. My back is against the wall at my current employer. As in, my employer had a return to the office mandate, and I had little realistic choice but to follow it. If I could quit and find another job, they know I would have already. I should state too, at my company, this same problem can be mapped on to more people than just myself. But hey, at least I get a paycheck. Things could be worse.
- gjsgdj 2y ago[flagged]