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American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school but getting a fine because your grass is too tall. These HOA type stories are always so funny.

by vasco 2y ago

American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school but getting a fine because your grass is too tall. These HOA type stories are always so funny. It blows my mind people buy in places with rules like these.

webninja 2y ago
Yeah, I never understood the idea of paying someone to tell you what to do. My family members only buy homes outside of HOAs.
m463 2y ago
Middle Finger themed air vents: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/
whoiscroberts 2y ago
You’re not allowed to bring a gun into a school. If you do your breaking the law, if your point is that you’re free to break the law and face the consequences, then yes, you’re right. You can bring the gun and be arrested and you can let the grass grow and be fined. What’s your point?
dang 2y ago
Please don't start flamewars on HN and especially not nationalistic ones. We're trying for something other than that here—more interesting and less repetitive, for starters. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- vasco 2y ago
  The thread below was an interesting discussion I thought. I believe this reply on an HOA topic on my specific comment is ironic comedy gold though, so I take the loss with a smile and will think again next time. Thanks for you work Dan!
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
What would be the repercussions of not paying any fines and bringing a case against the city for over-reach on private property?
- themoonisachees 2y ago
  The HOA is generally allowed to put a lien on your house, through the contract you were forced to sign with them.
  - LeafItAlone 2y ago
    > through the contract you were forced to sign with them. Except for Texas, I have not heard of being forced into an HOA. You choose to join one when buying a property in a neighborhood that has one.
    - jolmg 2y ago
      > Except for Texas, I have not heard of being forced into an HOA. What's the story with Texas?
    - mint2 2y ago
      It’s not a choice when the overwhelming majority of available homes to buy have HOAs.
  - ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
    Forced to sign a contract?
- sethammons 2y ago
  In NC, the HOA can force foreclosure on unpaid fees, even if the home is paid off. And 80% of available houses are in an HOA. They have us. Anti-HOA legislation is needed, but the legislature is greased by their lobbying.
  - newswasboring 2y ago
matsemann 2y ago
Is it some kind of bias in that one only hears about the insane cases, and there are thousands of well-run HOAs for every crazy one? Or is it really that bad? We don't have that concept in my country. Or, we do have associations that make it so that houses in an area share the upkeep of communal stuff like a park, playground, organize events etc. All things I would think a "normal HOA" would be, but without the ability to impose fines or stuff like that. So I would feel a house with that kind of neighborhood here would be a net positive, as in costs can be shared among more.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  It's this bad. The problem is Boomers. Boomers mostly worked one job between two people, and had the silent generation to take care of their kids so they had a lot of time for masterbatory lawn care/putting trashcans away the second the trash truck pulls away/nonsense. Now they are retired and have even more time, but also authority over people far busier than they ever have been.
  - jack_riminton 2y ago
    This is one of my favourite HN comments, it’s so true. Here in the UK the boomers were able to work one job, get a house on an easy mortgage and now they’re old and have nothing to do they campaign against any development that might slightly inconvenience them or reduce their house price (spoiler, most developments wouldn’t)
    - timthorn 2y ago
      They'll have had mortgages at 10% or higher, and tied to endowment policies that were often missold. Mortgages weren't easy for boomers, even if house prices were lower.
      - jack_riminton 2y ago
        That is laughably incorrect. Mortgages were far easier to afford for boomers (typically 4 times income, whereas now they're more likely to be 9 or even 10 times income) https://www.financialreporter.co.uk/income-to-house-price-ratio-more-than-doubles-since-the-70s.html https://www.financialreporter.co.uk/income-to-house-price-ra...
Hamuko 2y ago
You have the freedom to sign up to all kinds of ridiculous but enforceable contracts.
unsupp0rted 2y ago
HOAs are a questionable entity in high-trust societies. In low-trust societies you wish for an HOA and would gladly pay 10x your property tax to be in one that has rules and enforcement teeth. Even something as simple as forcing the guy who keeps smoking and talking on speakerphone next to your window from 4pm to 1am to stop doing that.
- xtracto 2y ago
  Maybe HOAs in the UK or in Germany would seem crazy. I lived in those two places for years and in both places people generally BEHAVE. In Germany, you DO NOT throw glass bottles into the recycle bin on Sundays because of the noise they make. People just expect to be civil. In contrast, here in Mexico (where I am from) you need a HOA (or the equivalent) to avoid all sorts of crazy neighbours. From people blasting music and shouting at 1am, people leaving their trash out in the sidewalk permanently, parking their cars in front of your garage. To really making dangerous modifications to their house that will undoubtedly affect their neighbours.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Nope. You'd be hard pressed to construct a narrative short of failed-state-need-24-hour-armed-security-to-survive where I'd entertain the notion of allowing 3rd parties any kind of say over what I can and can't do on my property.
  - meetingthrower 2y ago
    Do you live in the country in a town with no zoning? You might be surprised...
    - edgyquant 2y ago
      I lived in a pretty small town growing up and we were forced to sell the car I was going to get at 16 because I was 15 and it had been sitting for months. The city gave us a warning and was going to start fining us everyday until we got rid of it
db48x 2y ago
Someone always scoffs, but I think it is usually a sign that they don’t really understand freedom. In particular, the freedom of association. Many countries recognize it, so I don't need to get in to the exact legal justifications for it. Put plainly, this is the freedom to form groups that govern the behavior of their members. A group could be a dinner party, a study group, a book club, a circle of friends. It can also be much more serious. It could be a corporation, a union, a church, a political party, or a religion. Or it could be an HOA, or a town, or a state. If you like one or more of those types of groups then it is important to protect the freedom of association, even if you don’t like any of the others. Every group has rules, even the most informal. When you invite your friends out to dinner you probably don’t sit down and vote on the exact rules your dinner party will follow, but your party has rules regardless. And every group punishes violations of the rules somehow. If you get drunk and dance naked on top of a table, then you will suffer some form of sanction by the other members of the dinner party. At the very least you probably won’t be invited back. More formal groups like HOAs, corporations, and towns tend to have written rules and proscribed punishments for violations. They also have built–in ways of changing those rules. Ultimately some HOAs are useful while others are petty and run by vindictive idiots. An HOA that was useful for 50 years and never created any drama could turn bad next year when they elect some new board members. An HOA that is bad today _could_ elect new board members and then become drama–free and stay that way for 50 years, even if it seems unlikely. People who end up in a petty HOA usually regret it, and come to see joining any HOA as a big mistake. People in a sane HOA often wonder what the fuss is about. But here’s the truth: true freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes, even big mistakes. The freedom of association allows us to join any group we want, but sometimes joining will be a mistake. You can’t prevent people from making those mistakes without limiting their freedom. You can’t even reliably predict which mistakes they’re going to make, so you would end up preventing them from doing things that wouldn’t be mistakes too.
- Calavar 2y ago
  Freedom of association is missing the point when it comes to HOAs. There's some very significant differences between freedom to associate in a book club and freedom to associate in an HOA. If you don't like a book club, there is no scenario in which you are contractually obligated to join it and pay membership fees indefinitely. And the bookclub doesn't have broad legal authority, backed by the courts, to dictate how you maintain, use, and sell your personal property or even aspects of your lifestyle.
Ferret7446 2y ago
Do you even live in the US? If so, where exactly? Schools are one of the few places you are almost universally not allowed to bring guns.
thbb123 2y ago
Not American here, so would welcome some explanation. If I own a piece of land on which my house sits. Even if it's within a district that has a strong HOA, what prevents me from leaving the association and set my own rules over my patch of land? Surely in the individualistic land of the free, it should be a fundamental right?
- 19870213 2y ago
  But to buy that home/land from the previous owner you have to sign a contract stating you can't leave the HOA and that when you sell you only sell to those who will join the HOA and contract. This goes back to the construction company/realtor investing to build the entire suburb and putting down the roads and such.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    I wonder how many times this way of doing contracts was tested in the Supreme Court
  - bdowling 2y ago
    > you have to sign a contract You have the right idea, but there isn’t a contract that a buyer has to sign. A restrictive covenant is attached to a property when a developer (e.g., of a condo complex or subdivision) deeds a subject property to an initial buyer. The restrictions “run with the land” and are enforceable against any subsequent buyer. (The restrictions are a public record kept with the county recorder, so any buyer is on “record notice” whether they actually knew about them or not.) Also, the way most HOAs work, there is no joining just as there is no opting out. You are a member if you own a subject property. That’s it. I mainly know about California, but it should be similar in other states.
- abestic9 2y ago
  In short: land covenants. In HOAs you will see titles containing terms about the property being subject to restrictions voted for/applied by the association. If you continually decline to adhere to the restrictions, you can be legally compelled to sell and move on. Note: I'm using phrasing local to me, I expect there may be minor differences but the same gist.
pulse7 2y ago
A US supermarket is not allowed to sell Kinder Eggs - because they are "dangerous for children", BUT they are allowed to sell guns...
- jkaplowitz 2y ago
  They forgot the Kinder Egg amendment to the Constitution when they were drafting the Bill of Rights.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  Small magnets seem to be banned too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/08/17/magnet-safety-recall/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/08/17/magnet-sa...
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  A fun workaround would be an air cannon that launches kinder eggs with a warning to not eat the chocolate ammo.
- sparrish 2y ago
  Where in the US is there a supermarket that sells guns? I've never seen one. They'd need a FFL (Federal Firearms License) and anyone purchasing would have to go through a background check and in some states, a mandatory wait period of 3-10 days.
  - jkaplowitz 2y ago
    A large fraction of US Walmarts sell both groceries and guns, to name one example. I suspect this correlates with the states that don’t impose a mandatory waiting period, though I haven’t checked.
vixen99 2y ago
For those wondering as I did: HOA is 'home owners association'.
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  For the UK a HOA is conservation area if it were run by the folk on Nextdoor.
  - chownie 2y ago
    Christ, it really spells out how dystopian it really is. Could you imagine if Jackie on nextdoor got to hit you with the legal stick every time she didn't like your front garden?
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Okay, so now for someone not from the UK, I'm now curious what Jackie and Nextdoor means to someone from the UK. Is Nextdoor the same app for people living in neighborhoods, or is it a BBC show (I'd be interested in seeing it if so). Is the concept of Karen known as Jackie in the UK? C'mon mate, exchange some culture!
      - chownie 2y ago
        Nextdoor is an app (maybe a website too? not sure) which acts in my area sort of like a twitter feed for the people living in the houses nearby. It's not that useful unless you're in a built up area because I'd say the likelihood your neighbours are on it is actually pretty low. The stereotypical Jackie is not like a Karen. Where I'm from a Jackie is a lady who's usually a little older and working class, great conversation IRL, very inappropriate, the type who says stuff in her back garden and you roll your eyes and close the windows so your kids don't start repeating it. The cultural collision is that Jackie is not as much fun on Nextdoor, because something about the anonimity and having to write out the things she says out makes them sort of horrible, and she very easily slips into being a bit of a bully. For what it's worth I think the UK equivalent of a Karen is Sandra, whose husband is Terry -- whereas Jackie is obvs with Barry. When you really examine them, stereotypes are weird.
graemep 2y ago
Are Americans allowed to take guns to school? I would have thought most schools would ban guns? On the other hand we did have guns in my school in the UK (only for use on the rifle range). That said, I think it is very weird that Americans accept this level of regulation on what they do on their own property.
- nemo44x 2y ago
  There’s plenty of places share there’s no restrictions like this. But people that live in communities have the right to regulate how community members use their property. It’s for the greater good.
- disposition2 2y ago
  By and large, no. I’m not sure of any states / places that allow a student to bring a gun to school. A lot of schools have a police officer present, and I imagine they would typically be able to bring their gun. And some states are debating (or have authorized) allowing faculty to bring a gun to school; the caveat being (in most instances I have seen) said faculty would have to pass enhanced gun safety training.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  HOAs serve a pretty useful purpose: to coarsely/imperfectly segregate people who want to live in an HOA away from people who would never want to live in an HOA and vice-versa. Those two groups are somewhat prone to having conflicts with each other and HOAs let both be happier than if they were to be annoyed by living next to each other.
- HEmanZ 2y ago
  I’d be fascinated to see the geographic and demographic distribution of HOAs. In American Suburbia basically every neighborhood I’ve seen has an HOA. But in some cities I’ve lived they seem completely absent. I’m guessing there was a particular (white flighty) period of time and kind of people who really wanted these things. Neighborhoods built before this time don’t have them, and newer buildings (at least where I live) don’t seem to have them either. So these may be mostly phenomena of a specific period.
jakubmazanec 2y ago
HOAs are often awful. Obligatory John Oliver video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os
CalRobert 2y ago
Sure, but this isn't the HOA.
mattmaroon 2y ago
I have a few of each experience, homes without HOAs, and homes/condos with. (Nearly all condos have them.) There are, of course, pluses and minuses to either. I bought an expensive home in a nice suburb, no HOA. My neighbors, who were there before me, suddenly decided to fill their back yard with old rusty cars on blocks they were “working on”. And get a fake deer for target practice. This cost me then of thousands of dollars when I sold my house. No HOA restrictions I’ve ever dealt with were worse than that so I’m now fairly pro-HOA. I have plenty of freedom and opportunity to buy a house without one but I likely won’t again.
lrvick 2y ago
If an HOA can remove you from your home for non compliance with whatever extra-legal rules they come up with, you do not own the home.
- mlrtime 2y ago
  Try not paying your property taxes and see what happens, do you still own your home then?
  - lrvick 2y ago
    That is an actual law of the land in a democratic society that could change it if we all wanted. Everyone plays by the same rules there. Meanwhile an HOA deed restriction is you giving a private non government organization the permanent and irrevocable right to remove you from your home and sell it if you do not comply with whatever extra-legal discrimination they make up to impose on you. Plain and simple, HOAs are not a country or a government. They are a scam.
rpdillon 2y ago
You mentioned HOA-type stories, and seem to have spawned an enormous discussion about HOAs. Just want to point out that this has nothing to do with an HOA. Second paragraph: > When the town of Seaside, California ordered homeowner Etienne Constable to build a fence to conceal the boat in his driveway, he erected the fence all right. And then he hired his neighbor, artist Hanif Panni, to paint a mural on the fence—realistically depicting the boat itself. So all the discussion about contracts entered to into freely with respect to HOAs simply don't apply here: this is the government imposing the requirement to build a fence.
xdennis 2y ago
> American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school but getting a fine because your grass is too tall. What's wrong with bringing your gun to school? It was common (up until the 1970s, I think) to have shooting sports at school. That's how kids learned gun safety.
edgyquant 2y ago
You are not allowed to bring a gun to school. What a ridiculous statement
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
> It blows my mind people buy in places with rules like these. What choice do they have? Their job is nearby, and long commutes are not so far off from a prison sentence. Literally hundreds of hours per year trapped in a tiny space that you can't leave. Only so many houses/homes are for sale, and every time a critical mass of busybodies manifests, they can vote in a new HOA which is effectively immortal. They're simply easier to create than they are to uncreate. Until we get where we are today, and you may very well not have any non-HOA choices.
ein0p 2y ago
Correction: only school shooters can bring a gun to a school in 2024. To the rest of us it’s a “gun free” zone.
DontchaKnowit 2y ago
Okay, you cant bring a gun to school, so what the fuck are you talking about?
dvngnt_ 2y ago
you would probably be fined for bringing a gun to school
- sparrish 2y ago
  It's a felony. You'll go to jail.
  - dvngnt_ 2y ago
    they also fine you
burningChrome 2y ago
>> American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school Is this sarcasm?
gklitz 2y ago
People buy in places like this because “the neighborhood looks nice” and then immediately complain about not being able to break all the rules that led to them having that opinion in the first place.

by vasco 2y ago

webninja 2y ago

Yeah, I never understood the idea of paying someone to tell you what to do. My family members only buy homes outside of HOAs.

m463 2y ago

Middle Finger themed air vents: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/

whoiscroberts 2y ago

You’re not allowed to bring a gun into a school. If you do your breaking the law, if your point is that you’re free to break the law and face the consequences, then yes, you’re right. You can bring the gun and be arrested and you can let the grass grow and be fined. What’s your point?

dang 2y ago

Please don't start flamewars on HN and especially not nationalistic ones. We're trying for something other than that here—more interesting and less repetitive, for starters. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

vasco 2y ago
The thread below was an interesting discussion I thought. I believe this reply on an HOA topic on my specific comment is ironic comedy gold though, so I take the loss with a smile and will think again next time. Thanks for you work Dan!

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

What would be the repercussions of not paying any fines and bringing a case against the city for over-reach on private property?

themoonisachees 2y ago
The HOA is generally allowed to put a lien on your house, through the contract you were forced to sign with them.
- LeafItAlone 2y ago
  > through the contract you were forced to sign with them. Except for Texas, I have not heard of being forced into an HOA. You choose to join one when buying a property in a neighborhood that has one.
  - jolmg 2y ago
    > Except for Texas, I have not heard of being forced into an HOA. What's the story with Texas?
  - mint2 2y ago
    It’s not a choice when the overwhelming majority of available homes to buy have HOAs.
- ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
  Forced to sign a contract?
sethammons 2y ago
In NC, the HOA can force foreclosure on unpaid fees, even if the home is paid off. And 80% of available houses are in an HOA. They have us. Anti-HOA legislation is needed, but the legislature is greased by their lobbying.
- newswasboring 2y ago

matsemann 2y ago

Is it some kind of bias in that one only hears about the insane cases, and there are thousands of well-run HOAs for every crazy one? Or is it really that bad? We don't have that concept in my country. Or, we do have associations that make it so that houses in an area share the upkeep of communal stuff like a park, playground, organize events etc. All things I would think a "normal HOA" would be, but without the ability to impose fines or stuff like that. So I would feel a house with that kind of neighborhood here would be a net positive, as in costs can be shared among more.

willcipriano 2y ago
It's this bad. The problem is Boomers. Boomers mostly worked one job between two people, and had the silent generation to take care of their kids so they had a lot of time for masterbatory lawn care/putting trashcans away the second the trash truck pulls away/nonsense. Now they are retired and have even more time, but also authority over people far busier than they ever have been.
- jack_riminton 2y ago
  This is one of my favourite HN comments, it’s so true. Here in the UK the boomers were able to work one job, get a house on an easy mortgage and now they’re old and have nothing to do they campaign against any development that might slightly inconvenience them or reduce their house price (spoiler, most developments wouldn’t)
  - timthorn 2y ago
    They'll have had mortgages at 10% or higher, and tied to endowment policies that were often missold. Mortgages weren't easy for boomers, even if house prices were lower.
    - jack_riminton 2y ago
      That is laughably incorrect. Mortgages were far easier to afford for boomers (typically 4 times income, whereas now they're more likely to be 9 or even 10 times income) https://www.financialreporter.co.uk/income-to-house-price-ratio-more-than-doubles-since-the-70s.html https://www.financialreporter.co.uk/income-to-house-price-ra...

Hamuko 2y ago

You have the freedom to sign up to all kinds of ridiculous but enforceable contracts.

unsupp0rted 2y ago

HOAs are a questionable entity in high-trust societies. In low-trust societies you wish for an HOA and would gladly pay 10x your property tax to be in one that has rules and enforcement teeth. Even something as simple as forcing the guy who keeps smoking and talking on speakerphone next to your window from 4pm to 1am to stop doing that.

xtracto 2y ago
Maybe HOAs in the UK or in Germany would seem crazy. I lived in those two places for years and in both places people generally BEHAVE. In Germany, you DO NOT throw glass bottles into the recycle bin on Sundays because of the noise they make. People just expect to be civil. In contrast, here in Mexico (where I am from) you need a HOA (or the equivalent) to avoid all sorts of crazy neighbours. From people blasting music and shouting at 1am, people leaving their trash out in the sidewalk permanently, parking their cars in front of your garage. To really making dangerous modifications to their house that will undoubtedly affect their neighbours.
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Nope. You'd be hard pressed to construct a narrative short of failed-state-need-24-hour-armed-security-to-survive where I'd entertain the notion of allowing 3rd parties any kind of say over what I can and can't do on my property.
- meetingthrower 2y ago
  Do you live in the country in a town with no zoning? You might be surprised...
  - edgyquant 2y ago
    I lived in a pretty small town growing up and we were forced to sell the car I was going to get at 16 because I was 15 and it had been sitting for months. The city gave us a warning and was going to start fining us everyday until we got rid of it

db48x 2y ago

Someone always scoffs, but I think it is usually a sign that they don’t really understand freedom. In particular, the freedom of association. Many countries recognize it, so I don't need to get in to the exact legal justifications for it. Put plainly, this is the freedom to form groups that govern the behavior of their members. A group could be a dinner party, a study group, a book club, a circle of friends. It can also be much more serious. It could be a corporation, a union, a church, a political party, or a religion. Or it could be an HOA, or a town, or a state. If you like one or more of those types of groups then it is important to protect the freedom of association, even if you don’t like any of the others. Every group has rules, even the most informal. When you invite your friends out to dinner you probably don’t sit down and vote on the exact rules your dinner party will follow, but your party has rules regardless. And every group punishes violations of the rules somehow. If you get drunk and dance naked on top of a table, then you will suffer some form of sanction by the other members of the dinner party. At the very least you probably won’t be invited back. More formal groups like HOAs, corporations, and towns tend to have written rules and proscribed punishments for violations. They also have built–in ways of changing those rules. Ultimately some HOAs are useful while others are petty and run by vindictive idiots. An HOA that was useful for 50 years and never created any drama could turn bad next year when they elect some new board members. An HOA that is bad today _could_ elect new board members and then become drama–free and stay that way for 50 years, even if it seems unlikely. People who end up in a petty HOA usually regret it, and come to see joining any HOA as a big mistake. People in a sane HOA often wonder what the fuss is about. But here’s the truth: true freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes, even big mistakes. The freedom of association allows us to join any group we want, but sometimes joining will be a mistake. You can’t prevent people from making those mistakes without limiting their freedom. You can’t even reliably predict which mistakes they’re going to make, so you would end up preventing them from doing things that wouldn’t be mistakes too.

Calavar 2y ago
Freedom of association is missing the point when it comes to HOAs. There's some very significant differences between freedom to associate in a book club and freedom to associate in an HOA. If you don't like a book club, there is no scenario in which you are contractually obligated to join it and pay membership fees indefinitely. And the bookclub doesn't have broad legal authority, backed by the courts, to dictate how you maintain, use, and sell your personal property or even aspects of your lifestyle.

Ferret7446 2y ago

Do you even live in the US? If so, where exactly? Schools are one of the few places you are almost universally not allowed to bring guns.

thbb123 2y ago

Not American here, so would welcome some explanation. If I own a piece of land on which my house sits. Even if it's within a district that has a strong HOA, what prevents me from leaving the association and set my own rules over my patch of land? Surely in the individualistic land of the free, it should be a fundamental right?

19870213 2y ago
But to buy that home/land from the previous owner you have to sign a contract stating you can't leave the HOA and that when you sell you only sell to those who will join the HOA and contract. This goes back to the construction company/realtor investing to build the entire suburb and putting down the roads and such.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  I wonder how many times this way of doing contracts was tested in the Supreme Court
- bdowling 2y ago
  > you have to sign a contract You have the right idea, but there isn’t a contract that a buyer has to sign. A restrictive covenant is attached to a property when a developer (e.g., of a condo complex or subdivision) deeds a subject property to an initial buyer. The restrictions “run with the land” and are enforceable against any subsequent buyer. (The restrictions are a public record kept with the county recorder, so any buyer is on “record notice” whether they actually knew about them or not.) Also, the way most HOAs work, there is no joining just as there is no opting out. You are a member if you own a subject property. That’s it. I mainly know about California, but it should be similar in other states.
abestic9 2y ago
In short: land covenants. In HOAs you will see titles containing terms about the property being subject to restrictions voted for/applied by the association. If you continually decline to adhere to the restrictions, you can be legally compelled to sell and move on. Note: I'm using phrasing local to me, I expect there may be minor differences but the same gist.

pulse7 2y ago

A US supermarket is not allowed to sell Kinder Eggs - because they are "dangerous for children", BUT they are allowed to sell guns...

jkaplowitz 2y ago
They forgot the Kinder Egg amendment to the Constitution when they were drafting the Bill of Rights.
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
Small magnets seem to be banned too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/08/17/magnet-safety-recall/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/08/17/magnet-sa...
mensetmanusman 2y ago
A fun workaround would be an air cannon that launches kinder eggs with a warning to not eat the chocolate ammo.
sparrish 2y ago
Where in the US is there a supermarket that sells guns? I've never seen one. They'd need a FFL (Federal Firearms License) and anyone purchasing would have to go through a background check and in some states, a mandatory wait period of 3-10 days.
- jkaplowitz 2y ago
  A large fraction of US Walmarts sell both groceries and guns, to name one example. I suspect this correlates with the states that don’t impose a mandatory waiting period, though I haven’t checked.

vixen99 2y ago

For those wondering as I did: HOA is 'home owners association'.

philipwhiuk 2y ago
For the UK a HOA is conservation area if it were run by the folk on Nextdoor.
- chownie 2y ago
  Christ, it really spells out how dystopian it really is. Could you imagine if Jackie on nextdoor got to hit you with the legal stick every time she didn't like your front garden?
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Okay, so now for someone not from the UK, I'm now curious what Jackie and Nextdoor means to someone from the UK. Is Nextdoor the same app for people living in neighborhoods, or is it a BBC show (I'd be interested in seeing it if so). Is the concept of Karen known as Jackie in the UK? C'mon mate, exchange some culture!
    - chownie 2y ago
      Nextdoor is an app (maybe a website too? not sure) which acts in my area sort of like a twitter feed for the people living in the houses nearby. It's not that useful unless you're in a built up area because I'd say the likelihood your neighbours are on it is actually pretty low. The stereotypical Jackie is not like a Karen. Where I'm from a Jackie is a lady who's usually a little older and working class, great conversation IRL, very inappropriate, the type who says stuff in her back garden and you roll your eyes and close the windows so your kids don't start repeating it. The cultural collision is that Jackie is not as much fun on Nextdoor, because something about the anonimity and having to write out the things she says out makes them sort of horrible, and she very easily slips into being a bit of a bully. For what it's worth I think the UK equivalent of a Karen is Sandra, whose husband is Terry -- whereas Jackie is obvs with Barry. When you really examine them, stereotypes are weird.

graemep 2y ago

Are Americans allowed to take guns to school? I would have thought most schools would ban guns? On the other hand we did have guns in my school in the UK (only for use on the rifle range). That said, I think it is very weird that Americans accept this level of regulation on what they do on their own property.

nemo44x 2y ago
There’s plenty of places share there’s no restrictions like this. But people that live in communities have the right to regulate how community members use their property. It’s for the greater good.
disposition2 2y ago
By and large, no. I’m not sure of any states / places that allow a student to bring a gun to school. A lot of schools have a police officer present, and I imagine they would typically be able to bring their gun. And some states are debating (or have authorized) allowing faculty to bring a gun to school; the caveat being (in most instances I have seen) said faculty would have to pass enhanced gun safety training.
sokoloff 2y ago
HOAs serve a pretty useful purpose: to coarsely/imperfectly segregate people who want to live in an HOA away from people who would never want to live in an HOA and vice-versa. Those two groups are somewhat prone to having conflicts with each other and HOAs let both be happier than if they were to be annoyed by living next to each other.
HEmanZ 2y ago
I’d be fascinated to see the geographic and demographic distribution of HOAs. In American Suburbia basically every neighborhood I’ve seen has an HOA. But in some cities I’ve lived they seem completely absent. I’m guessing there was a particular (white flighty) period of time and kind of people who really wanted these things. Neighborhoods built before this time don’t have them, and newer buildings (at least where I live) don’t seem to have them either. So these may be mostly phenomena of a specific period.

jakubmazanec 2y ago

HOAs are often awful. Obligatory John Oliver video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os

CalRobert 2y ago

Sure, but this isn't the HOA.

mattmaroon 2y ago

I have a few of each experience, homes without HOAs, and homes/condos with. (Nearly all condos have them.) There are, of course, pluses and minuses to either. I bought an expensive home in a nice suburb, no HOA. My neighbors, who were there before me, suddenly decided to fill their back yard with old rusty cars on blocks they were “working on”. And get a fake deer for target practice. This cost me then of thousands of dollars when I sold my house. No HOA restrictions I’ve ever dealt with were worse than that so I’m now fairly pro-HOA. I have plenty of freedom and opportunity to buy a house without one but I likely won’t again.

lrvick 2y ago

If an HOA can remove you from your home for non compliance with whatever extra-legal rules they come up with, you do not own the home.

mlrtime 2y ago
Try not paying your property taxes and see what happens, do you still own your home then?
- lrvick 2y ago
  That is an actual law of the land in a democratic society that could change it if we all wanted. Everyone plays by the same rules there. Meanwhile an HOA deed restriction is you giving a private non government organization the permanent and irrevocable right to remove you from your home and sell it if you do not comply with whatever extra-legal discrimination they make up to impose on you. Plain and simple, HOAs are not a country or a government. They are a scam.

rpdillon 2y ago

You mentioned HOA-type stories, and seem to have spawned an enormous discussion about HOAs. Just want to point out that this has nothing to do with an HOA. Second paragraph: > When the town of Seaside, California ordered homeowner Etienne Constable to build a fence to conceal the boat in his driveway, he erected the fence all right. And then he hired his neighbor, artist Hanif Panni, to paint a mural on the fence—realistically depicting the boat itself. So all the discussion about contracts entered to into freely with respect to HOAs simply don't apply here: this is the government imposing the requirement to build a fence.

xdennis 2y ago

> American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school but getting a fine because your grass is too tall. What's wrong with bringing your gun to school? It was common (up until the 1970s, I think) to have shooting sports at school. That's how kids learned gun safety.

edgyquant 2y ago

You are not allowed to bring a gun to school. What a ridiculous statement

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

> It blows my mind people buy in places with rules like these. What choice do they have? Their job is nearby, and long commutes are not so far off from a prison sentence. Literally hundreds of hours per year trapped in a tiny space that you can't leave. Only so many houses/homes are for sale, and every time a critical mass of busybodies manifests, they can vote in a new HOA which is effectively immortal. They're simply easier to create than they are to uncreate. Until we get where we are today, and you may very well not have any non-HOA choices.

ein0p 2y ago

Correction: only school shooters can bring a gun to a school in 2024. To the rest of us it’s a “gun free” zone.

DontchaKnowit 2y ago

Okay, you cant bring a gun to school, so what the fuck are you talking about?

dvngnt_ 2y ago

you would probably be fined for bringing a gun to school

sparrish 2y ago
It's a felony. You'll go to jail.
- dvngnt_ 2y ago
  they also fine you

burningChrome 2y ago

>> American land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school Is this sarcasm?

gklitz 2y ago

People buy in places like this because “the neighborhood looks nice” and then immediately complain about not being able to break all the rules that led to them having that opinion in the first place.