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A man ordered to hide his boat painted the boat on his fence
- rendall 2y agoI tried to find more information about the specific ordinance that the city cited to be able to order someone to build a fence. Seems strange, a city government behaving like an HOA. What is the possible reason for such an ordinance that would not also apply to a mural?
- defrost 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside,_California While at root a General-Law City it's entirely possible for the five-member City Council to have at some point in the past passed policy directives that are akin to those that might come from a HOA. Seaside City Council also serves as the board of directors for the Redevelopment Agency of the City Council ... and "Redevelopment" can easily code for "we have a strong vision of what our town|small city should look like". > What is the possible reason for such an ordinance that would not also apply to a mural? If such an ordinance exists to hide 'unsightly' cars | boats behind a fence then it's possible that when it was drafted and passed in (say) 1960 (?) no one thought to specify a tight restriction on the paint job on any fence ... "In any sufficiently complex set of rules, there's always a loophole." ~ Kurt Gödel, homeowner.
- aaronbasssett 2y agoHere's the ordinance from my city: http://bocaraton.elaws.us/code/coor_ch28_artxv_div8_sec28-1509#:~:text=The%20recreational%20vehicle%2C%20boat%20or%20boat%20trailer%20is%20screened%20from%20off%2Dpremises%20view%20by%20a%20fence%2C%20wall%20or%20hedge http://bocaraton.elaws.us/code/coor_ch28_artxv_div8_sec28-15....
- b112 2y agoI don't know about the US all that much, but here in Canuck land, we generally don't have HOAs (incredibly rare), and the closest thing would be condo associations, which make sense, for there is a shared "common cost" involved in a condo building. For detached housing, it's all the city and bylaws. Bylaws might cover common nuisance laws, such as having a bunch of rusted cars on the lawn, or having your lawn covered in dog feces. Both of these are often covered under pollution, if you live in a rural area on a well, dog shit runoff can contaminate a well. And rusting cars often have old gas and oil and other contaminants, same logic. But realistically, these laws are also passed because "unsightly". One difference between an HOA and a city government, is at least in Canada democracy is involved. Especially smaller city governments. I've noticed larger municipal governments aren't as democratic, just due to the size and scope of things. For example, knowing your mayor on a first name basis, in a municipality the size of <10k people, is different than a mayor of a 1M+ city. In the smaller case, you often have the mayor's cell phone number and email, and your councillor's, and you just.. you know, talk to them.
- gorbachev 2y agoIt's almost certainly in place to prevent someone from loading their property with dozens of junk cars, or something like that, and then being applied to all kinds of situations that wouldn't warrant it.
- puzzlingcaptcha 2y agohttps://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seaside1734.html#17.34.150 https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seasi... D
- rahimnathwani 2y agoI have a friend that did this with garbage bins. Their HOA told them garbage bins couldn't be left out. They constructed a wooden enclosure, which has a painting of garbage bins on the outside. (The painting looks slightly nicer than the actual garbage bins.)
- vasco 2y agoAmerican land of the free is being able to bring a gun to school but getting a fine because your grass is too tall. These HOA type stories are always so funny. It blows my mind people buy in places with rules like these.
- webninja 2y agoYeah, I never understood the idea of paying someone to tell you what to do. My family members only buy homes outside of HOAs.
- m463 2y agoMiddle Finger themed air vents: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/
- whoiscroberts 2y agoYou’re not allowed to bring a gun into a school. If you do your breaking the law, if your point is that you’re free to break the law and face the consequences, then yes, you’re right. You can bring the gun and be arrested and you can let the grass grow and be fined. What’s your point?
- dang 2y agoPlease don't start flamewars on HN and especially not nationalistic ones. We're trying for something other than that here—more interesting and less repetitive, for starters. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- vasco 2y agoThe thread below was an interesting discussion I thought. I believe this reply on an HOA topic on my specific comment is ironic comedy gold though, so I take the loss with a smile and will think again next time. Thanks for you work Dan!
- Simon_ORourke 2y agoWhat would be the repercussions of not paying any fines and bringing a case against the city for over-reach on private property?
- reacharavindh 2y agoI never understood how the idea of HOAs became acceptable. I used to live with a friend in the US for a few months - standard suburb house in a community and cul-de-sac. I kid you not, the HOA imposed fines on my friend who owns the house that their trash bins were 12cms too tall for the shrubs to hide them. He had to move the bins away from the front side of the house or pay a recurring penalty. It's absurd what people can live with, and spend their time on. Ironically, this is the land that screams "freedom" at every opportunity they get :-) I tell my wife that if we ever decided to move stateside, and think of buying a house, it must be an independent house that is not part of any pesky HOA BS.
- Simran-B 2y agoFor the international readers: HOA = Homeowners' Association
- throwbadubadu 2y ago> I never understood how the idea of HOAs became acceptable. I do.. it is the canonization and highest wish of all the what we call a https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spie%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spie%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger in Germany :D "A Spießbürger is a derogatory term for a narrow-minded person who is characterized by mental immobility, pronounced conformity to social norms and aversion to changes in the usual living environment."
- generic92034 2y agoYeah, but do not forget how we are even codifying quite narrow-minded views about how someone should build their house in Bauordnungen (building code). My parents had to sue to build their house with a pitched roof, even though one neighboring house already had the same. And do not get me started on Denkmalschutz (monument protection?) ...
- pantalaimon 2y agoYea here the government removed a mural from a hostel facade because it 'disturbed' the monument protected building adjacent to it. https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2024/04/berlin-hostel-happy-go-lucky-putz-wird-entfernt-neuer-streit.htm https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2024/04/berlin-hostel-...
- knolan 2y agoIt’s easy to laugh at the silly US HOA stories but here in Ireland (and the UK) people have had similar issues with building bike storage units in front of their homes. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/06/12/bike-shed-in-front-garden-detrimental-to-victorian-home-setting-planners-rule/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/06/... https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-threatened-ps11-million-fine-over-bike-shed-306735 https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-threatened-ps11-million... https://dublininquirer.com/2023/05/24/while-cracking-down-on-some-residents-who-put-bike-storage-in-their-front-gardens-the-council-installed-its-own/ https://dublininquirer.com/2023/05/24/while-cracking-down-on...
- newswasboring 2y agoI think people laugh at US stories more because they are the ones harping on about Freedom all the time. There might be 150+ free countries in the world but nobody talks about it more than USA.
- ipsum2 2y agoAmerica runs on the principle of localism, which basically means that laws should be passed at a local level to deal with their own specific issues. Hence the United "States". This is compatible with some areas having stricter HOAs or laws.
- newswasboring 2y agoI think both of us know that is not how capital F Freedom is used in any public discourse by Americans or otherwise. That is what makes this funnier. The contrast in how freedom is talked about and how it's implemented.
- joenot443 2y agoDo you know many Americans who think "capital F Freedom" means laws don't exist? I've lived here a while and never met anyone who think that way. Most of the time when Americans I know talk about their freedom, they're referring to the 1st and 2nd amendments. I've never really understand freedom to mean "freedom to do whatever you want without impunity." Is that how other countries perceive American's idea of freedom?
- weinzierl 2y agoCan someone explain how HOAs work? They are private organizations, right? So, in the end you get what you sign up for when you acquire property. What am I missing?
- jnsaff2 2y agoObliged to please. Here is John Oliver explaining them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrizmAo17Os
- gwd 2y ago> What am I missing? Well one thing is you can walk around the house and see what it's like yourself; and you can hire a professional surveyor to catch all the things you wouldn't catch. But you can't tell what the HOA is going to be like -- how much their ideas of what goes and what doesn't go will match your own (and how strict the rules are going to be enforced). A mismatch either way (minutely enforcing tiny rules you don't care about, or refusing to enforce major rules you do care about) is likely to be the source of friction. Actually reading through the article, it doesn't look like the guy thought the rules were stupid -- mostly he thought it would be a fun way to comply.
- db48x 2y agoThey are essentially a corporation where every property owner is a member of the corporation. The members vote to elect officers from amongst their number, who form a board. The board is empowered to collect dues and transact on behalf of the corporation in accordance with the HOA’s bylaws.
- surfingdino 2y agoHere's a classic man vs. the Man from London https://www.timeout.com/london/blog/red-red-wall-watch-this-gif-of-a-graffiti-artists-year-long-battle-with-council https://www.timeout.com/london/blog/red-red-wall-watch-this-...
- curtisblaine 2y agoThat's actually quite a sad gif. Not only they spent a lot of money pressure washing and repainting, but actually painting over bricks seals their surface, doesn't let them "breathe" and it's overall worse for the wall in the long run. They ruined a perfectly good public property for comedic effect.
- alt227 2y agoThe gif on that page just shows a blank square for me, even with all ad blockers turned off. Do you have a direct link to the file?
- surfingdino 2y agoTry here https://www.boredpanda.com/red-wall-graffiti-experiment-london-mobstr-curious-frontier/ https://www.boredpanda.com/red-wall-graffiti-experiment-lond...
- alt227 2y agoThankyou :)
- ssijak 2y agoThere was no explanation why was he ordered to hide the boat? Sounds weird to me, its your yard and its a boat, not some PG13 item.
- smitty1e 2y agoHOAs are the tyranny of the majority.
- astura 2y agoThis is a city ordinance, nothing to do with an HOA.
- dotancohen 2y agoDemocracy is the tyranny of the majority, and most people who live in Western countries do enjoy their democracy.
- iLoveOncall 2y ago> Operative boats and large pickup campers, motor homes, recreation vehicles, utility trailers, and vacation trailers shall be allowed to be parked or stored in a required rear or side setback in a residential district only if screened on the side and front by a six-foot-high fence. In these instances, the provision of adequate light and air to a neighbor’s window shall not be obstructed. This is the law in question. It's likely because it's considered unsightly.
- nashashmi 2y agoEven a chain link fence would be sufficient to meet the law. Chain links are unsightly too.
- mc32 2y agoChain links are the worst kinds of fences. Ugly and seemingly are used to pen-in loud barking dogs who start barking two blocks away and keep barking till you’re another two blocks up the street. Often the ground is mostly bare with some weeds along the fence. Give me cliche picket fences any day. Even stone fences.
- master-lincoln 2y agoThe weirdest thing to me is that the article is not about the absurd order to hide the boat with a fence, but solely about the painting...
- Brian_K_White 2y agoHOA bs is uninteresting old news, the painting is not.
- madeofpalk 2y agoThe website is called artnet. They wrote an article on art.
- db48x 2y agoIt’s not an order for one person to hide their boat, it is a general rule applying to all recreational vehicles in the city. Usually the rule allows you to park a recreational vehicle in a garage, or in a car park provided it is enclosed on at least three sides, or in the back yard of a house provided it is behind a fence, etc.
- leni536 2y agoCeci n'est pas une pipe
- exolab 2y agoMy hero!
- bigbacaloa 2y ago[dead]
- user3939382 2y agoI think HOAs are horrible and I’d never participate in one. However I find the multiple comments connecting HOAs with a lack of freedom wrong. It’s a contract you’re freely entering into. There is a lack of freedom in the US, but it’s not from HOAs. Interestingly the most freedom I’ve ever felt was in Congo. The government there simply doesn’t have the resources to be pervasively and consistently present in its citizens lives. Of course you trade that for enslavement to crushing economic circumstances, so maybe this is one for Plato to solve.
- zamadatix 2y agoI somewhat agree but think "freely entering into" oversells it a bit. On one hand in a very literal sense sure, nobody is going to send you to jail for buying a home without an HOA... but it's also not something you really get to pick yourself, the house's history does and you're "free" to pick a different house not anything about the HOA itself. That doesn't inherently mean HOAs are wrong in my book but I can also see why folks don't like to say you're free to pick in that there are certain useful forms of the meaning of free that aren't present. The trouble in terminology is that might not align with everyone's default interpretation of what free means when they talk about it. It reminds me of topics of "free speech" where you have some literal absolutist that mean any speech should be allowed and the more typical approach which means more or less "mildly restricted speech" where what is restricted is often assumed to be the same but is often subtly different.
- 5555624 2y agoThis was not an issue with an HOA, the city of Seaside sent him the letter. "When the town of Seaside, California ordered...." and "When the town of Seaside, California ordered..." The city sees it as a violation of their municipal code; specifically: https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seaside1734.html#17.34.150 https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seasi... I'm not a fan of HOAs; but, sometimes they're not to blame.
- falcor84 2y agoThanks for finding it. Just pasting the relevant subclause: > D. Parking in rear and side setbacks. Operative boats and large pickup campers, motor homes, recreation vehicles, utility trailers, and vacation trailers shall be allowed to be parked or stored in a required rear or side setback in a residential district only if screened on the side and front by a six-foot-high fence. In these instances, the provision of adequate light and air to a neighbor’s window shall not be obstructed.
- squarefoot 2y agoQuite odd that a city called Seaside doesn't like boats to be kept in sight.
- thih9 2y agoPerhaps this is not about sight as much as about proximity. I'm guessing parking, walking or driving next to a boat could be not as safe as compared to e.g. a parked car.
- KevinGlass 2y agoAre you suggesting that walking by a boat or rv is somehow dangerous?
- throwup238 2y agoI don’t know about RVs but American boats are famous for spontaneously attacking pedestrians with their flying jibs.
- 123yawaworht456 2y agochad
- thih9 2y agoIs the purpose of the fence to hide the boat or is it to provide a physical barrier? Since this is not a HOA rule but at city of Seaside rule[1], I'm guessing the latter. And in that case I suppose the painting is a good solution for everyone. [1]: https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seaside1734.html#17.34.150 https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/Seaside/#!/Seaside17/Seasi...
- beretguy 2y agoHide a tree in a forest. Hide a boat in a boat.
- taylorhou 2y agoI think being forced to join an HOA when purchasing a property will be challenged one day. At least when it comes to SFR where most hoa's aren't actually doing anything with your specific property.
- caleblloyd 2y agoI don’t know how that could work in certain situations. Like a condo where the HOA does exterior maintenance on the roof and siding. Or a neighborhood where the HOA maintains the retention pond.
- AlexandrB 2y agoWhat's necessary is to limit the power and scope of HoAs. In Canada, for example, HoAs are generally restricted in how they can levy fines - so their ability to mess up your life is greatly reduced.
- sidewndr46 2y agoWell in the US we used to be forced to agree that no "non-whites" would reside at the property when we purchase it. Later SCOTUS would state such provisions are legal between private parties, but can't be enforced with the coercion of the government. The same thing could happen with HOAs
- em-bee 2y agoin the meantime the fair housing act makes this generally illegal
- shadowgovt 2y agoThe neighborhood interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
- eth0up 2y agoSomeone recently told me a pleasing story. Guy in HOA erects American flag. HOA complains and demands flag be removed. Attorney friend suggests taking advantage of (I think) a Carter era federal law that encompasses several admirable freedoms, eg clothes lines and zero impact yards. Guy removes flag and erects clothes line with tacky garments from thrift store. HOA cannot prohibit this. Guy compromises by offering to replace flag with slightly smaller version. HOA reluctantly capitulates and clothes line is removed. Flag flies.
- b3ing 2y agoHOAs are just usually snobbery of people not wanting to live next to poor people. They don’t want old cars, unrepaired cars or “ugly paint” on a house next to them. It’s mostly middle and upper middle class, as the really rich can afford to live in an area that the cost alone prevents this.
- prmoustache 2y agoThis would trigger my OCD as owner of the boat. I'd have to align it perfectly to the fence.
- alistairSH 2y agoThis photo shows the boat and painting are pretty darn close to perfectly aligned... https://news.artnet.com/app/news-upload/2024/05/etienne-constable-hanif-panni-half-1024x818.jpg https://news.artnet.com/app/news-upload/2024/05/etienne-cons...
- mechanicalpulse 2y agoI had the same thought. Backing up a boat is already difficult enough; I would require mechanisms for making alignment easier else I’d have fits. Since parallax will affect the observed alignment, it doesn’t have to be prefect. Perhaps a few strategic markings on the driveway (behind the fence) and/or cameras on the trailer would be sufficient.
- mavsman 2y agoHe was going to be fined $100 for the violation? So is this an ad for the artist or something else?
- naasking 2y agoGotta love malicious compliance.
- aranchelk 2y ago> Parrhasius, then invited Zeuxis to his studio to look at a painting hanging behind a curtain, but when Zeuxis went to pull it back, it was revealed to be a trick, and Parrhasius won the contest. What was the “trick”? In paraphrasing, the author some how glosses over the fact that the curtain was in fact a painting.