17 ms·

Students invent quieter leaf blower

280 points by namanyayg 2y ago

TOMDM 2y ago
If these truly sound that much better I'd personally buy every gardener in a 3 block radius one of these myself just to get rid of the bloody gas ones.
- xxs 2y ago
  That is battery (li-ion) powered, so it's already quieter to begin with.
- noobcoder 2y ago
  Would love to know what neighbourhood you live in so that I dont have to get it for my gardener
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Many affluent areas have already banned gas leaf blowers and it’s incredible how quiet the battery powered replacements are. I was in Palm Springs recently and had nearly walked past a landscaper using one before if occurred to me just how quiet it was - didn’t even interrupt our conversation. I believe it was a Stihl backpack version (maybe https://www.stihlusa.com/products/blowers-and-shredder-vacs/battery-blowers/bga300/?aqid=88251818e1d234bd93e75750bc4a22d0 https://www.stihlusa.com/products/blowers-and-shredder-vacs/...) but yeah, highly recommend!
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    It isn't so much the noise that bothers me, what I've never understood about leaf blowers is what are they meant to accomplish? When I watch people use them they either blow the leaves into the street or the neighbors yard. What do they think that does? Now on the other hand, I do own a very noisy leaf vacuum. But when I've collected a bag full I can just deposit the leaves in my collection container. They are taken off to be composted
    - micromacrofoot 2y ago
      generally for landscapers it saves them the trouble of raking, which can put a lot of strain on your back — they'll blow the leaves onto a tarp and then wrap them up for easy removal in my experience, homeowners mostly dick around with them
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        I guess that would work, but I have never seen anyone do that.
        stronglikedan 2y ago
        Only for lack of trying. Most of them do do just that.
        rpdillon 2y ago
        My son and I raise money for our Boy Scout troop by doing yard cleanup in the fall. Using leaf blowers and tarps is how the crew worked through 20 acres of cleanup over two weekends.
      - jrmg 2y ago
        This thread is like people who’ve never cleaned a yard before saying “I’ve never understood the purpose of rakes and brooms - don’t they just move things around? Surely you need to pick things up to really clean?!”
    - francisofascii 2y ago
      To be fair, they are very good at removing debris from a front-porch. I fully support banning them, and they are heavily overused in situations when a rake works just as well, but they are superior in some cases.
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        I guess that makes sense, but I always personally just use the hose for that. The way I am billed, I don't really pay much for the water I use.
- sgarland 2y ago
  There are problems with battery-powered tools (at least, leaf blowers) still, especially at the commercial level. For one, they just don’t have the runtime. I briefly had an 80V blower. On its highest power – which is the only way it could come close to a gas-powered model, it was barely able to get all of the leaves out of the yard (we had a tree with leaves that had needle-like protrusions, which made them quite hard to dislodge), and lasted about 10 minutes per charge. If you don’t have sticky leaves, or are clearing primarily hard surfaces like a deck, then absolutely, battery-powered is the way to go. But if you’re a commercial operator who is driving tools more or less non-stop all day, it’s going to be a hard sell to have to have a minimum of N*2 batteries (at $150-200 each), plus the downtime of swaps, plus having to run a generator on your truck constantly to charge the off-duty batteries. EDIT: Sibling comment below linked to a Stihl model that appears to offer an hour of runtime at full tilt. It’s also $2400 for the unit / battery / charger, tbf, but it at least has the performance.
  - xxs 2y ago
    A whole hour of runtime would be mean 1C discharge. 80V (which is likely 72V, but in the US it's ok to label the max voltage rather than the actual one) is made of 20 Li-Ion batteries in series. Lets say 2 in parallel, so total 40 batteries. I'd go with 3Ah per battery (could be more for 21700) and around 2Kgs weight. For 1h work that's ~430W of power which is rather under powered. That fast charger (say 30min to charge) for this thing would be quite a thing to witness with over a kW of power draw. About Stihl, it uses a 36V battery, so 10 Li-Ion in series. Which is half as powerful. I can't see a capacity higher than 36V/6Ah from Stihl. Now, it possibly uses multiple batteries, however, the issue with charging still remains the same. Running a generator would be louder than the device, so imo that's a moot point. I'd consider using a massive power bank and/or lots of pre-charged batteries to carry the day but not an inverter.Taking enough batteries to swap and charging them in off-hours seems the only sensible approach (albeit not cheap)
    - jandrese 2y ago
      For what it is worth the chargers for tool batteries are almost never fast chargers. So it takes 4 hours to charge for 15 minutes of runtime.
- hedora 2y ago
  In San Jose, whenever someone proposes this (or at least getting the gas powered ones to stop dumping carcinogens), they’re non-ironically branded as racist. People argue the battery powered ones aren’t good for professional use (short runtimes) but that problem was solved years ago. They also argue they’re too expensive, but that argument falls apart if you include engine maintenance and gasoline in the cost.
maven29 2y ago
Can't be quieter than a rake.
- xxs 2y ago
  Unless you stumble on it. Other than that - leaf blowers are not used only in gardening work.
  - huhtenberg 2y ago
    Yep, it's invaluable for getting your BBQ grill really going.
    - mlrtime 2y ago
      I use it to dry my car which is ceramic coated, one of the best tools I have recently purchased.
      - kreyenborgi 2y ago
        why would you dry a car instead of buy one that is water proof i would be leaf blowing my car every other day with the amount of rain here
        riffic 2y ago
        water spots lol.
        mlrtime 2y ago
        I'm sorry, is this is sarcasm? When you wash the car you want all the water off of it. Water isn't clean.
      - teekert 2y ago
        I have never dried a car, does a car not dry by itself?
xxs 2y ago
Unfortunately the article is very poor on details. The sound from the video is insufficient to tell. Personally, I'd be quite excited to see what are the changes engineering wise. I bet it'd make a proper addition to BOLTR. I still can't see how it'd be much quieter, as lots of the noise is just the air moving (and making sound waves), perhaps less vibrations, different frequencies due to different rpm?
- planb 2y ago
  "Our product takes in a full blow of air and separates it," said team member Leen Alfaoury. "Some of that air comes out as it is, and part of it comes out shifted. The combination of these two sections of the air makes the blower less noisy." Sounds like they created a noise cancellation air channel.
  - xxs 2y ago
    I reread it - it says 40% reduction, that's -7dB... I can believe that part. Edit: checked DCBL772X1 - it's listed 68 dBA - that's not necessarily loud, so if they managed -7dB, massive props to them.
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      Except it is not. They claim a 2db reduction overall. Then they say that is 37% the noise. But it is not. Human hearing isn’t linear with power. 2db is not the human perceived volume. The article isn’t light on details - it’s bullshit.
      - barfbagginus 2y ago
        During the great American knowledge collapse, it's becoming more and more important to make American students look smarter for working, like, less harder.
  - regularfry 2y ago
    There was a paper a few years ago describing something that sounds very similar: https://journals.aps.org/prb/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevB.99.024302 https://journals.aps.org/prb/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevB.99.02...
mccrory 2y ago
Now if we could solve this for the rest of the lawn equipment, especially mowers and string trimmers.
- xxs 2y ago
  Lawn mower robots do the trick quite nicely actually.
- infecto 2y ago
  The switch to electric will help a lot in this situation. Unfortunately I don't think the equipment is good enough contractors yet.
  - deadbunny 2y ago
    Maybe it's just a UK thing but I can't think of the last time I even saw a non-electric lawn mower. Even going as far back as the 80s they were the standard, just don't mow over the cable!
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Small gardens
    - Maxion 2y ago
      Depends on where you live and the size of the yard. Electric are great when the size isn't that big. Once you go larger, it becomes very hard to do practically with electricity.
      - kristofferR 2y ago
        Isn't it the opposite? Doing it the manual way with gas is super hard compared to just buying an electric robot mower, especially in large yards.
        xxs 2y ago
v7n 2y ago
I wonder if the efficiency is indeed unchanged, or as quoted in the article "keeps all that force". If so, and if the added weight is really minimal, I wonder if this could be applied to EDF aerial vehicles such as hobbyist RC planes.
luketollefson 2y ago
HN commenter with this exact idea 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20379490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20379490 haha. Good stuff
- Kuinox 2y ago
  It looks like the same structure.
- StimDeck 2y ago
  Give that commenter some upvotes. Also did you just pull this from memory?
lowercased 2y ago
Won't help much until these are mandated by law, or.. we just wait for a couple generations to die out. There's a section of folks who enjoy loud engines. It's their jam, they love being 'outdoors' with loud gas powered engines, big trucks, riding lawn mowers. It's a fantasy escape world for them. Over time, the next couple generations may hopefully adopt more battery powered outdoor stuff (mowers, blowers, etc) because of environmental concerns, or... goodness - maybe actual sound concerns. But it's going to be another couple decades, I think. Yes, I live in a rural area in the US. Things ain't changing here any time soon.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Generally being a nuisance can be illegal, depending on the circumstances. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance If there's a quiet option and someone deliberately uses a noisy one, could that be considered a nuisance?
  - lowercased 2y ago
    Not in rural areas. People shoot guns at 1am and... "god given freedoms" and "piss off back to the city y'all" and all that are trotted out anytime a complaint is made. Again, it may change in another couple generations, but it'll be slow.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - twoquestions 2y ago
      I'm genuinely sorry you have assholes for neighbors. If it's any consolation, not every rural area is like that, at least around here people just want to be left alone. Personally I'd buy one of these in an instant, I like being able to enjoy the peace and quiet!
    - delichon 2y ago
      I lived in cities for four decades and rural areas for two. Hearing late night gunshots was routine in cities. I think it's happened once in hearing from my rural home. My neighbor is a state biologist who put down a sick coyote. Or course it can happen a lot if you get the wrong neighbors. But that's more of a risk in the city where you have so many more neighbors.
omgJustTest 2y ago
"Their design cuts the most shrill and annoying frequencies by about 12 decibels, which all but removes them, making them 94% quieter. The team reduced the overall leaf blower noise by about two decibels, making the machine sound 37% quieter." [1] Somewhat upsetting here... I don't have a problem with people doing things like this and students need encouragement, but we are talking about shifting from the sound of a leaf blower to the sound of a vacuum cleaner [2]... in the best case. One particular annoyance here: the sound emission must be from the end of the blower but also from its casing. I feel many products like these are cheaply designed, and the OEM could solve many of the nuisance issues with simple housing changes... or spending a few more pennies on the bearings or blades in assemblies. These are not OEM primary goals, as they are looking to save pennies in a lot of the parts in these designs. JHU should make these comments!, and also offer their designs for free given these are public orgs using mostly public dollars... if the result is such a big deal, getting manufacturers to commit to sound reduction in licensing deals would be a true result! https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_Poster-%208.5x11.pdf_5399b289427535.32730330.pdf https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_P... [2]
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  Try this one: STIHL BGA 86 Akku Laubbläser. It's shocking how quiet it is.
  - whiplash451 2y ago
    mmm, the spec says 90dB [1] which is the sound level of a motorcycle at 25ft [2]. not amazing (at least on paper) [1] https://www.stihl.de/de/p/laubblaeser-blasgeraete-saughaecksler-akku-laubblaeser-bga-86-ap-system-109236 https://www.stihl.de/de/p/laubblaeser-blasgeraete-saughaecks... [2] https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dbl...
    - mc32 2y ago
      Even gasoline powered echoes claim 87db. The battery powered Egos are quieter.
KingOfCoders 2y ago
I also have one, it's called a rake.
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  Many people have an even quieter one, no yard, what's your point? What's so important about this statement that you had to be the 3rd one to make it?
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    If three people make this, then it should say something about a.) leaf blowers and how they are liked by bystanders b.) that this might be solving the wrong problem. "you had to be the 3rd one to make it?" With people making a personal attack out of everything, I wonder: Does this make you happy? How are those people in real life? Can't they discuss things without getting personal? (Oh and I see the irony of my comment, but I do consider this a meta-discussion) PS: No I don't read every one out of 180 comments before I comment myself. Chapeau if you do!
    - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
      > With people making a personal attack out of everything, Just because you feel attacked doesn't mean you were attacked. Nothing bad happened to you, other than being asked a simple question. > PS: No I don't read everyone of 180 comments before I comment myself. In this case 0 were read in order to rush and make a low effort joke because there were two rake comments above the fold and nowhere near 180 total when you wrote it. There's no need to lie here, you gain nothing from it.
      - KingOfCoders 2y ago
        "In this case 0 were read in order to rush and make a low effort joke" You should work for the NSA or the three later agency of your country, you can spot what people do possibly thousands of kilometers away! There was this one Columbo episode, one of my favorites, where the NSA wanted to hire such a guy. Sadly it was all fake. So the cynical side of me assumes you also can't spot what I'm doing at my computer, and your assertion you could see what I was doing, was fake :-( "make a low effort joke" You still have not understood my comment. You make no effort to understand the comment, even with my explanation. I guess this is because you don't want to understand people but get something out of attacking them. My comment was not a joke, which was the point of my previous comment.
lukas099 2y ago
I was hoping the video would show it actually blowing leaves.
tao_oat 2y ago
See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40374795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40374795 (posted 9 hours ago).
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
If this becomes popular, I hope they get a Nobel prize.
- dsizzle 2y ago
  Haha I came here to make the same comment
Scene_Cast2 2y ago
Whisper Aero is a startup trying to commercialize a quiet leaf blower. I don't think they're selling their product yet, unfortunately.
alberth 2y ago
HN 7-months ago | 199 comment Similar story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37932971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37932971 EDIT: why the downvotes?
prmoustache 2y ago
Isn't it called a leaf rake? Frankly I never understood the popularity of leaf blowers to begin with. They are noisy, less effective than a leaf rake and very bad for health and back of the users. It seems they exists only because people are stupid enough to think that something that makes noise and use a lot of energy would necessarily be better.
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  > less effective than a leaf rake and very bad for health and back of the users. Citation needed. I can clear my whole yard with an electric blower much faster than with a rake. I also have no idea how holding a leaf blower would be bad for my back or health.
  - derbOac 2y ago
    There's also leaves that can't be raked because they're too small.
- hyping9 2y ago
  [flagged]
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  Raking leaves out of landscaping rock is a PITA. I blow the leaves and other debris onto the driveway and then sweep up. Easy peasy.
SigmundA 2y ago
Milwaukee just came out with a blower claiming 40% quieter then their last revision hard to tell if the students version is quieter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2NSBAe6bdI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2NSBAe6bdI
unpopularopp 2y ago
Awful lot of NIMBY people on HN, that always surprises me
- shiftpgdn 2y ago
  Hating on a universal annoyance isn’t NIMBY behavior.
klankschap 2y ago
How about just leaving leaves for what they are. Just leave them and move on with your own life.
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Exactly right. It's asinine to blow leaves. They don't do any damage and they create habitats for spiders and insects. I hate poeple who want clean, empty mowed lawns, aiming for an ideal that is far away from nature. Sickening.
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    Wet rotting leaves on a footpath are very slippery, so its helpful to be able to blow them off the footpath before they get all mushy
    - vouaobrasil 2y ago
      What? I've never once slipped on a leaf.
  - sgarland 2y ago
    I don’t want a natural habitat in my yard. That’s what the woods behind my house are for. I want a clean, relatively flat, and soft field of grass that my kids can run around barefoot in. I’m all for natural beauty, but most people already live in urban or suburban environments. What’s the point in pretending when you’re surrounded by asphalt and brick?
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      It's nice to see things other than just asphalt and brick.
    - trgn 2y ago
      Yeah, it's called gardening, a different, curated expression of life. Wilderness can exist elsewhere. But leafblowers are mainly just antisocial technology.
klankschap 2y ago
How about leaving leaves for what they are. Just leave them and move on with your own life.
- mlrtime 2y ago
  Have you ever considered it's just a name and it's actually used on more than just leaves? Or was the post sarcasm? Poe's law.
  - barfbagginus 2y ago
    If they are serious, then they are making the equivocation fallacy - arguing by using a word in two different ways and hoping nobody notices the mistake. But it's likely they are doing this as a pun, where readers are supposed to notice the equivocation, and find it funny or annoying. For example we can imagine a lazy husband saying "they're called leaves, so that is why I'm going to leave them for tomorrow!" This is not a serious attempt to equivocate the two meanings of "leave" - it communicates non willingness while also causing laughter or annoyance. An obvious equivocation is not usually an effective argument. But making it a pun can win points with a good humored audience, because they find it funny. Funny arguments can influence opinions even though we know they are nonsense. TLDR; when people mix word meanings secretly to confuse people and win points, it's equivocation, and that's a morally bad argument and is usually unacceptable. But when people mix meanings blatantly to win points by being funny, it's a pun, and that may be acceptable in non-serious conversations.
- cityofdelusion 2y ago
  I tried this when I first got a house. The leaves decompose and you end up shoveling a layer of mud off your waking surfaces. It also becomes incredibly slippery when wet. A dense layer of waxy oak leaves can be like walking on ice.
  - digging 2y ago
    Hm, residential walking surfaces are easily swept with a broom though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
chiefalchemist 2y ago
Tuesday I mowed the lawn. Yesterday morning, I got up, made coffee, grabbed my shop broom and cleaned up out front. Not a leaf blower insight. Sure it took a couple of extra minutes but I also got some light exercise. I understand why a lawn service uses a leaf blower. I don't understand why my neighbors do.
- hyping9 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - chiefalchemist 2y ago
    Hey whatever. I don't care. But when I hear a leaf blowers early on a Sunday or even a Saturday, I cringe. There's no reason miserable people need to make others miserable as well.
danielohrlund 2y ago
If it works I'll buy one for my neighbor as soon as they're available.
btbuildem 2y ago
[flagged]
dagurp 2y ago
I hope they'll put this on hand dryers too
linhns 2y ago
Can this idea be adapted to vacuum cleaner? Would appreciate that since my head starts to spin when I hear one.
- hyping9 2y ago
  It's called hearing protection. People wear it while operating heavy machinery, shooting guns, or being at rock concerts. Might not hurt to keep a pair around your home.
kreyenborgi 2y ago
https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104 https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104 moxie marlinspike invented one a few years ago
- ZeroCool2u 2y ago
  This was the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on this student design.
sandworm101 2y ago
A quieter leaf blower? No. They did not do that. They found a way to quiet an existing leaf blower. Adding a silencer to a gun doesn't mean that you have invented a new gun. >> They workshopped more than 40 versions of the solution they finally settled on: an attachment that cuts the machine's noise almost like a silencer on a gun or a muffler on a car. And for all the people screaming about electric v. gas, this isn't about that. This device looks like it could be used on any leaf blower, although the difference is probably less dramatic on a gas-powered model.
pferde 2y ago
Cool, now outlaw the loud ones in populated areas. Next step, the same thing with the obnoxiously loud motorbikes in cities.
WaltPurvis 2y ago
Can someone explain to me what "quieter" means in this context and/or how it's calculated? I don't understand what they mean when they say reducing the noise by 2 decibels made it 37% quieter -- it wasn't making only 5 decibels of noise before, was it? >>Their design cuts the most shrill and annoying frequencies by about 12 decibels, which all but removes them, making them 94% quieter. The team reduced the overall leaf blower noise by about two decibels, making the machine sound 37% quieter.
- anarticle 2y ago
  Decibels are log scale, reducing by 3db cuts energy by half.
- tomoyoirl 2y ago
  Decibels are logarithmic; a 1 dB reduction in sound is ~26%.
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    But that is NOT the same as human perceived volume. Less 37% energy is not 37% less volume to humans. You won’t be able to tell the difference in volume except for the tone which could be more or less pleasing depending on the frequency they say they got 12db on.
    - WaltPurvis 2y ago
      I learned something new today (I didn't know decibels were logarithmic), but I still don't understand how it relates to "human perceived volume" as you put it. If a typical electric leaf blower makes 70 decibels of sound, it seems odd that cutting that to 67 decibels makes it sound 37% less loud. Perhaps it does, but I think I'll have to hear it to believe it. I may have to buy a sound meter and run some experiments.
      - calfuris 2y ago
        The sound has 37% less power, but human perception of sound intensity is roughly logarithmic. Looking at the difference in dB will give you a better estimate of the perceived change than the difference in actual sound power.
gumby 2y ago
Leaf blowers are pretty terrible for the yard, so anything that makes them more acceptable will just make things worse. Bad because they blow away topsoil, leaving a hard pack behind that absorbs little water. Just walking around my neighborhood it’s clear who doesn’t use a leaf blower: the dirt is crumbly and the plant life better. If people have pots as well you can see the difference between the two. Also bad because they blow away all the decaying leaf matter and bugs from under the bushes, again hardening the soil and losing a;l the advantages of bugs perforating the soil and drawing nutrients below. Of course you can try to fix this by adding chemicals…ugh
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- toss1 2y ago
  Yes, it can be a real problem, that over-use. You can also fix this by using judicious aiming and throttle control and still be more efficient and easier on the exosystem vs raking. But you must first understand the issue and want to solve it. Unfortunately, most people, even "lansdscape pros" do not understand it, or want to take the extra care to do it. Source: my wife is extremely knowledgeable, educated, and passionate about the plant and soil ecosystems you describe, yet I was able to adjust technique to satisfy her scrutiny in a reasonably short time. You just have to get a clue and want to act on it. And yes, we've both seen more abuse done with a leaf-rake approach too. It's not the tool, it's the user, tho these blower tools make it easier to abuse at scale.
unglaublich 2y ago
Doesn't matter. We have quiet vacuum cleaners, quiet cars, quiet motorbikes, and quiet mowers, but that doesn't trigger the feeling of primal power that many buyers search for.
foobarian 2y ago
I got an electric leaf blower mostly to avoid the noise and partly to avoid gasoline engine issues (a Kobalt 80V blower). What baffles me is that here the designers had a chance to make something truly quiet but instead they blew it and used a super-high-RPM motor-powered narrow turbine placed inside the pipe. It sounds like a dental drill amplified through a set of loudspeakers. I would kill to get a commercially designed blower powered with a large squirrel cage driven by a low-RPM brushless motor. I'm sure they exist by now and I imagine they are glorious. I'm not sure what these students did but if I was doing that project today that is the first thing I would try.
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  Makes me wonder if they intentionally kept some noise to combat consumer perception that it was weaker than gas models.
  - swayvil 2y ago
    Good point. If you want a good accurate model of human psychology, look to world of marketing. There is a similar noise-is-strength in vacuum cleaner sales.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      We all know loud pipes save lives, so just think of all of the lives you'd be putting at risk by making quieter anything.
      - Mountain_Skies 2y ago
        Back before they started adding in artificial noise, I almost got hit by a Prius because I couldn't hear it and the driver was distracted. It was only due to the noise of some loose gravel on the pavement that I became aware of the car and got out of the way.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      > There is a similar noise-is-strength in vacuum cleaner sales. Thankfully that seems to only really happen on the cheaper, or smaller end of the vacuum spectrum. My Shark handheld is so obnoxious that the dog tries to rip it out of my hands so she can chew it to pieces. My Sebo canister vac, on the other hand, is much quieter. It's a selling point. And it really, really sucks!
giovanni_or2 2y ago
I love the sound of a leaf blower. Makes me sleepy.
xyst 2y ago
Cool invention. Will the students get paid royalties or is the university and private company taking all of the royalties/profits?
kingcai 2y ago
This is cool. Kudos to the team too - I feel like this is what engineerings all about.
cruffle_duffle 2y ago
Naw. Leaf blowers should be straight up banned. They are pointless and a massive source of obnoxious noise pollution. Seriously though, what do they even do?
- lupire 2y ago
  They move leaves off of surfaces where they are a nuisance, to a disposal area.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    So does a rake or broom. It needs more manual labor to do it that way.
    - Vaslo 2y ago
      Some yards are large and some people are older. They can’t take and lift leaves. Many communities have it so they can be blown the street and are picked up every few days - much less labor and effort than raking into piles, picking up, bagging etc.
handsclean 2y ago
There’s some other “quiet leaf blower” on the market, and all they’re doing is reducing power and telling you special nozzles make up for it, which of course they don’t. This article omitting performance measures is a red flag for me. What’s the CFM impact? It’s 40% quieter, but is it also 40% worse at blowing leaves?
- stevage 2y ago
  It says like 10 times in the video that equal performance was the KPI.
  - handsclean 2y ago
    Timestamp? I’ve watched the video twice now and read the whole article and can’t find one mention of it. The closest is one statement of “it keeps all that force still there”, which is vague, definitely not the same thing as CFM, and sounds like the sort of statement that’s compatible with the aforementioned nozzle lines.
stevage 2y ago
You kind of get the impression that manufacturers never even bothered to try to make them quiet before.
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  While I'm usually very free market, I think this is a case where we have such a high negative externality that we need regulation. Everyone is annoyed by leaf blowers, but the tradeoff for users, especially commercial, of paying the extra cost isn't worth it to them. I don't think we should ban them, but have a maximum permitted noise level.
grugagag 2y ago
A rake is also an option
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  Not when you have gravel landscaping and a yard full of shrubs with small leaves. The rake will work a little on the larger branches but won’t do a good job of cleaning up.
addingadimensio 2y ago
[dead]
dontupvoteme 2y ago
The innovative power of the hangover
the_real_cher 2y ago
Moxie Marlinspike tried this. Pretty decent try. https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104?lang=en https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104?lang=en
geocrasher 2y ago
What I loved about this is that all of their prototypes were with a stock leaf blower with *3D Printed* attachments. This really shows the value of the rapid prototyping that 3D Printing has allowed. It also shows that any of us could have done this with enough time and effort. And I don't mean literally any person- but there are a LOT of YouTube engineering channels that could likely have tackled this, had they been asked to.
- pradn 2y ago
  There's a lot of value in coming up with a clear problem statement and giving it to the right people. We see this with DARPA, at a much bigger scale.
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  There are a lot of ongoing attempts in the 3d printing community to replicate the Wilson airless basketball. I expect there will be similar efforts in to produce something similar to what the students created. Wonder if they applied for a patent and if that would prevent clones from being made.
- cchance 2y ago
  The funny part here is they say product, but in reality as soon as this ships someone will hit it with a hammer, figure out the internal layout with some calipers and we'll have an STL lol
  - StimDeck 2y ago
    Can’t we just look for the patent application rather than wait two years for a concrete product?
- pradn 2y ago
  There's a lot of value in coming up with a clear problem statement and giving it to the right people. We see this with DARPA, at a much bigger scale. A lot of the value in engineering leadership is in making sure the right problems are being solved.
piokoch 2y ago
Leaf blowers are one of the most idiotic inventions ever made. What is good about moving throwing leafs from place A to place B, where they will be rotting in the same way. Blowing with all other dust and trash. Luckily they got recently banned in Warsaw.
unsupp0rted 2y ago
The first time I woke up in North America to the sound of a neighbor with a leaf blower, I asked myself how this could possibly be legal.
- hindsightbias 2y ago
  You should go to the beach and relax with a two-stroke jet ski.
  - nisse72 2y ago
    or on a hike with a UE Boom
modeless 2y ago
We don't need quieter electric leaf blowers. We need to ban the gas ones, with no grandfather clause. Not just for the noise pollution but the local air pollution. It's crazy the volume of air that can be ruined by a single gas leaf blower, far worse than modern cars, and they are inescapable in cities.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  I think leaf blowers kick up enough dust that they should just be banned outright.
- riffic 2y ago
  a buy-back program would be a good first step.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  They’ve been banned for years in some cities. The issue is there is zero enforcement.
  - modeless 2y ago
    Yeah a ban in a suburb of a city doesn't work because they are brought in by landscaping companies not based in that suburb.
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      Usually the ban is something like you cant use it in 500ft of a residence, which obviates that issue if cops bothered to patrol for this or if there was a reporting hotline that was well advertised.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    And the other underlying problem implied there is that electric leaf blowers are only viable for household use. They are just so completely impractical for commercial use that no one will ever use them.
Log_out_ 2y ago
It creates dustdevils that clean up your yard.
DasCorCor 2y ago
Put them up for the Nobel.
- bibanez 2y ago
  The Nobel of Peace, of course
rangledangle 2y ago
To me the noise was 10% of the problem. Who wants to breathe in what lies on the ground? Just lick it instead.
baerrie 2y ago
Thank god, i am so sensitive to all lawn equipment noise, this is a huge public good and I think there should be more restrictions on this class of machine, gas and electric
indigo0086 2y ago
Not one leaf blown.
pnielsen2 2y ago
The madlads they finally did it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eo2uq5k1O0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eo2uq5k1O0
nikolay 2y ago
I watched years ago a presentation at the City of Irvine, California, from a scientist that all these small engines (leaf blowers, mowers, etc.) pollute California's air way more than all cars combined. Also, the leak machine oil. To me personally, leaf blowers are bad not only due to their exausts, but because they also make all kinds of bacteria and pollutants airborne, most specifically, fungus, feces from animals, large particles, etc., which end up in our lung eventually. To me leafs are not a big issue. I'd rather have grass with decaying leaves then grass and leaf blowers! UPDATE: It seems that California has banned the sale, not the use of gas-powered small engines [0]! [0]: https://www.cityofirvine.org/environmental-programs/lawn-equipment-ban https://www.cityofirvine.org/environmental-programs/lawn-equ...
tmnvix 2y ago
I still recall a tragicomic leafblower event that made the local news when I lived in Australia. A caretaker was killed when a tree fell on him while he was using a leafblower during a storm. The added irony was that he was doing this at 'The Lodge' - the official residence of the Australian Prime Minister which had been vacant for some time because the Prime Minister refused to live their (preferring a residence in Sydney). So an entirely unnecessary event all around.
moribvndvs 2y ago
I welcome even quieter electric, but the two stroke engine on most blowers (particularly the pack blowers) is the real problem and they are EVERYWHERE. Every day from sun up to sun down from March until December my neighborhood has a nearly constant drone and reeks of two stroke gas. It has gotten so much worse over the past 7 years I’ve lived here, and sharply worse since pandemic. I dunno if it’s attributed to more affordable pack models becoming more popular with homeowners or increased usage of landscapers, but it has become an extreme nuisance. I have a handheld electric to help with a couple of hard to reach spots. While it’s not as quiet as I wish, you can’t (well, least I can’t, from my testing) really hear it after about 75 to 100 feet. The surrounding neighbors’ blowers can be heard over a quarter mile away when I’m walking around the block. It has ruined enjoying time out in the backyard, especially during the fall which is my favorite season.
philbin 2y ago
[dead]
adamlookvarrk 2y ago
[flagged]
rldjbpin 2y ago
love the ingenuity but this reminds me of the "pen vs pencil in space" myth. while the residents should not be really using them in the first place, i hope local municipalities would acquire quieter options for maintaining public spaces.

280 points by namanyayg 2y ago

If these truly sound that much better I'd personally buy every gardener in a 3 block radius one of these myself just to get rid of the bloody gas ones.

xxs 2y ago
That is battery (li-ion) powered, so it's already quieter to begin with.
noobcoder 2y ago
Would love to know what neighbourhood you live in so that I dont have to get it for my gardener
mikeyouse 2y ago
Many affluent areas have already banned gas leaf blowers and it’s incredible how quiet the battery powered replacements are. I was in Palm Springs recently and had nearly walked past a landscaper using one before if occurred to me just how quiet it was - didn’t even interrupt our conversation. I believe it was a Stihl backpack version (maybe https://www.stihlusa.com/products/blowers-and-shredder-vacs/battery-blowers/bga300/?aqid=88251818e1d234bd93e75750bc4a22d0 https://www.stihlusa.com/products/blowers-and-shredder-vacs/...) but yeah, highly recommend!
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  It isn't so much the noise that bothers me, what I've never understood about leaf blowers is what are they meant to accomplish? When I watch people use them they either blow the leaves into the street or the neighbors yard. What do they think that does? Now on the other hand, I do own a very noisy leaf vacuum. But when I've collected a bag full I can just deposit the leaves in my collection container. They are taken off to be composted
  - micromacrofoot 2y ago
    generally for landscapers it saves them the trouble of raking, which can put a lot of strain on your back — they'll blow the leaves onto a tarp and then wrap them up for easy removal in my experience, homeowners mostly dick around with them
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      I guess that would work, but I have never seen anyone do that.
      - stronglikedan 2y ago
        Only for lack of trying. Most of them do do just that.
      - rpdillon 2y ago
        My son and I raise money for our Boy Scout troop by doing yard cleanup in the fall. Using leaf blowers and tarps is how the crew worked through 20 acres of cleanup over two weekends.
    - jrmg 2y ago
      This thread is like people who’ve never cleaned a yard before saying “I’ve never understood the purpose of rakes and brooms - don’t they just move things around? Surely you need to pick things up to really clean?!”
  - francisofascii 2y ago
    To be fair, they are very good at removing debris from a front-porch. I fully support banning them, and they are heavily overused in situations when a rake works just as well, but they are superior in some cases.
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      I guess that makes sense, but I always personally just use the hose for that. The way I am billed, I don't really pay much for the water I use.
sgarland 2y ago
There are problems with battery-powered tools (at least, leaf blowers) still, especially at the commercial level. For one, they just don’t have the runtime. I briefly had an 80V blower. On its highest power – which is the only way it could come close to a gas-powered model, it was barely able to get all of the leaves out of the yard (we had a tree with leaves that had needle-like protrusions, which made them quite hard to dislodge), and lasted about 10 minutes per charge. If you don’t have sticky leaves, or are clearing primarily hard surfaces like a deck, then absolutely, battery-powered is the way to go. But if you’re a commercial operator who is driving tools more or less non-stop all day, it’s going to be a hard sell to have to have a minimum of N*2 batteries (at $150-200 each), plus the downtime of swaps, plus having to run a generator on your truck constantly to charge the off-duty batteries. EDIT: Sibling comment below linked to a Stihl model that appears to offer an hour of runtime at full tilt. It’s also $2400 for the unit / battery / charger, tbf, but it at least has the performance.
- xxs 2y ago
  A whole hour of runtime would be mean 1C discharge. 80V (which is likely 72V, but in the US it's ok to label the max voltage rather than the actual one) is made of 20 Li-Ion batteries in series. Lets say 2 in parallel, so total 40 batteries. I'd go with 3Ah per battery (could be more for 21700) and around 2Kgs weight. For 1h work that's ~430W of power which is rather under powered. That fast charger (say 30min to charge) for this thing would be quite a thing to witness with over a kW of power draw. About Stihl, it uses a 36V battery, so 10 Li-Ion in series. Which is half as powerful. I can't see a capacity higher than 36V/6Ah from Stihl. Now, it possibly uses multiple batteries, however, the issue with charging still remains the same. Running a generator would be louder than the device, so imo that's a moot point. I'd consider using a massive power bank and/or lots of pre-charged batteries to carry the day but not an inverter.Taking enough batteries to swap and charging them in off-hours seems the only sensible approach (albeit not cheap)
  - jandrese 2y ago
    For what it is worth the chargers for tool batteries are almost never fast chargers. So it takes 4 hours to charge for 15 minutes of runtime.
hedora 2y ago
In San Jose, whenever someone proposes this (or at least getting the gas powered ones to stop dumping carcinogens), they’re non-ironically branded as racist. People argue the battery powered ones aren’t good for professional use (short runtimes) but that problem was solved years ago. They also argue they’re too expensive, but that argument falls apart if you include engine maintenance and gasoline in the cost.

maven29 2y ago

Can't be quieter than a rake.

xxs 2y ago
Unless you stumble on it. Other than that - leaf blowers are not used only in gardening work.
- huhtenberg 2y ago
  Yep, it's invaluable for getting your BBQ grill really going.
  - mlrtime 2y ago
    I use it to dry my car which is ceramic coated, one of the best tools I have recently purchased.
    - kreyenborgi 2y ago
      why would you dry a car instead of buy one that is water proof i would be leaf blowing my car every other day with the amount of rain here
      - riffic 2y ago
        water spots lol.
      - mlrtime 2y ago
        I'm sorry, is this is sarcasm? When you wash the car you want all the water off of it. Water isn't clean.
    - teekert 2y ago
      I have never dried a car, does a car not dry by itself?

xxs 2y ago

Unfortunately the article is very poor on details. The sound from the video is insufficient to tell. Personally, I'd be quite excited to see what are the changes engineering wise. I bet it'd make a proper addition to BOLTR. I still can't see how it'd be much quieter, as lots of the noise is just the air moving (and making sound waves), perhaps less vibrations, different frequencies due to different rpm?

planb 2y ago
"Our product takes in a full blow of air and separates it," said team member Leen Alfaoury. "Some of that air comes out as it is, and part of it comes out shifted. The combination of these two sections of the air makes the blower less noisy." Sounds like they created a noise cancellation air channel.
- xxs 2y ago
  I reread it - it says 40% reduction, that's -7dB... I can believe that part. Edit: checked DCBL772X1 - it's listed 68 dBA - that's not necessarily loud, so if they managed -7dB, massive props to them.
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    Except it is not. They claim a 2db reduction overall. Then they say that is 37% the noise. But it is not. Human hearing isn’t linear with power. 2db is not the human perceived volume. The article isn’t light on details - it’s bullshit.
    - barfbagginus 2y ago
      During the great American knowledge collapse, it's becoming more and more important to make American students look smarter for working, like, less harder.
- regularfry 2y ago
  There was a paper a few years ago describing something that sounds very similar: https://journals.aps.org/prb/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevB.99.024302 https://journals.aps.org/prb/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevB.99.02...

mccrory 2y ago

Now if we could solve this for the rest of the lawn equipment, especially mowers and string trimmers.

xxs 2y ago
Lawn mower robots do the trick quite nicely actually.
infecto 2y ago
The switch to electric will help a lot in this situation. Unfortunately I don't think the equipment is good enough contractors yet.
- deadbunny 2y ago
  Maybe it's just a UK thing but I can't think of the last time I even saw a non-electric lawn mower. Even going as far back as the 80s they were the standard, just don't mow over the cable!
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Small gardens
  - Maxion 2y ago
    Depends on where you live and the size of the yard. Electric are great when the size isn't that big. Once you go larger, it becomes very hard to do practically with electricity.
    - kristofferR 2y ago
      Isn't it the opposite? Doing it the manual way with gas is super hard compared to just buying an electric robot mower, especially in large yards.
      - xxs 2y ago

v7n 2y ago

I wonder if the efficiency is indeed unchanged, or as quoted in the article "keeps all that force". If so, and if the added weight is really minimal, I wonder if this could be applied to EDF aerial vehicles such as hobbyist RC planes.

luketollefson 2y ago

HN commenter with this exact idea 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20379490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20379490 haha. Good stuff

Kuinox 2y ago
It looks like the same structure.
StimDeck 2y ago
Give that commenter some upvotes. Also did you just pull this from memory?

lowercased 2y ago

Won't help much until these are mandated by law, or.. we just wait for a couple generations to die out. There's a section of folks who enjoy loud engines. It's their jam, they love being 'outdoors' with loud gas powered engines, big trucks, riding lawn mowers. It's a fantasy escape world for them. Over time, the next couple generations may hopefully adopt more battery powered outdoor stuff (mowers, blowers, etc) because of environmental concerns, or... goodness - maybe actual sound concerns. But it's going to be another couple decades, I think. Yes, I live in a rural area in the US. Things ain't changing here any time soon.

HPsquared 2y ago
Generally being a nuisance can be illegal, depending on the circumstances. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance If there's a quiet option and someone deliberately uses a noisy one, could that be considered a nuisance?
- lowercased 2y ago
  Not in rural areas. People shoot guns at 1am and... "god given freedoms" and "piss off back to the city y'all" and all that are trotted out anytime a complaint is made. Again, it may change in another couple generations, but it'll be slow.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - twoquestions 2y ago
    I'm genuinely sorry you have assholes for neighbors. If it's any consolation, not every rural area is like that, at least around here people just want to be left alone. Personally I'd buy one of these in an instant, I like being able to enjoy the peace and quiet!
  - delichon 2y ago
    I lived in cities for four decades and rural areas for two. Hearing late night gunshots was routine in cities. I think it's happened once in hearing from my rural home. My neighbor is a state biologist who put down a sick coyote. Or course it can happen a lot if you get the wrong neighbors. But that's more of a risk in the city where you have so many more neighbors.

omgJustTest 2y ago

"Their design cuts the most shrill and annoying frequencies by about 12 decibels, which all but removes them, making them 94% quieter. The team reduced the overall leaf blower noise by about two decibels, making the machine sound 37% quieter." [1] Somewhat upsetting here... I don't have a problem with people doing things like this and students need encouragement, but we are talking about shifting from the sound of a leaf blower to the sound of a vacuum cleaner [2]... in the best case. One particular annoyance here: the sound emission must be from the end of the blower but also from its casing. I feel many products like these are cheaply designed, and the OEM could solve many of the nuisance issues with simple housing changes... or spending a few more pennies on the bearings or blades in assemblies. These are not OEM primary goals, as they are looking to save pennies in a lot of the parts in these designs. JHU should make these comments!, and also offer their designs for free given these are public orgs using mostly public dollars... if the result is such a big deal, getting manufacturers to commit to sound reduction in licensing deals would be a true result! https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_Poster-%208.5x11.pdf_5399b289427535.32730330.pdf https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_P... [2]

rad_gruchalski 2y ago
Try this one: STIHL BGA 86 Akku Laubbläser. It's shocking how quiet it is.
- whiplash451 2y ago
  mmm, the spec says 90dB [1] which is the sound level of a motorcycle at 25ft [2]. not amazing (at least on paper) [1] https://www.stihl.de/de/p/laubblaeser-blasgeraete-saughaecksler-akku-laubblaeser-bga-86-ap-system-109236 https://www.stihl.de/de/p/laubblaeser-blasgeraete-saughaecks... [2] https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dbl...
  - mc32 2y ago
    Even gasoline powered echoes claim 87db. The battery powered Egos are quieter.

KingOfCoders 2y ago

I also have one, it's called a rake.

fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
Many people have an even quieter one, no yard, what's your point? What's so important about this statement that you had to be the 3rd one to make it?
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  If three people make this, then it should say something about a.) leaf blowers and how they are liked by bystanders b.) that this might be solving the wrong problem. "you had to be the 3rd one to make it?" With people making a personal attack out of everything, I wonder: Does this make you happy? How are those people in real life? Can't they discuss things without getting personal? (Oh and I see the irony of my comment, but I do consider this a meta-discussion) PS: No I don't read every one out of 180 comments before I comment myself. Chapeau if you do!
  - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
    > With people making a personal attack out of everything, Just because you feel attacked doesn't mean you were attacked. Nothing bad happened to you, other than being asked a simple question. > PS: No I don't read everyone of 180 comments before I comment myself. In this case 0 were read in order to rush and make a low effort joke because there were two rake comments above the fold and nowhere near 180 total when you wrote it. There's no need to lie here, you gain nothing from it.
    - KingOfCoders 2y ago
      "In this case 0 were read in order to rush and make a low effort joke" You should work for the NSA or the three later agency of your country, you can spot what people do possibly thousands of kilometers away! There was this one Columbo episode, one of my favorites, where the NSA wanted to hire such a guy. Sadly it was all fake. So the cynical side of me assumes you also can't spot what I'm doing at my computer, and your assertion you could see what I was doing, was fake :-( "make a low effort joke" You still have not understood my comment. You make no effort to understand the comment, even with my explanation. I guess this is because you don't want to understand people but get something out of attacking them. My comment was not a joke, which was the point of my previous comment.

lukas099 2y ago

I was hoping the video would show it actually blowing leaves.

tao_oat 2y ago

See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40374795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40374795 (posted 9 hours ago).

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

If this becomes popular, I hope they get a Nobel prize.

dsizzle 2y ago
Haha I came here to make the same comment

Scene_Cast2 2y ago

Whisper Aero is a startup trying to commercialize a quiet leaf blower. I don't think they're selling their product yet, unfortunately.

alberth 2y ago

HN 7-months ago | 199 comment Similar story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37932971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37932971 EDIT: why the downvotes?

prmoustache 2y ago

Isn't it called a leaf rake? Frankly I never understood the popularity of leaf blowers to begin with. They are noisy, less effective than a leaf rake and very bad for health and back of the users. It seems they exists only because people are stupid enough to think that something that makes noise and use a lot of energy would necessarily be better.

fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
> less effective than a leaf rake and very bad for health and back of the users. Citation needed. I can clear my whole yard with an electric blower much faster than with a rake. I also have no idea how holding a leaf blower would be bad for my back or health.
- derbOac 2y ago
  There's also leaves that can't be raked because they're too small.
hyping9 2y ago
[flagged]
lotsoweiners 2y ago
Raking leaves out of landscaping rock is a PITA. I blow the leaves and other debris onto the driveway and then sweep up. Easy peasy.

SigmundA 2y ago

Milwaukee just came out with a blower claiming 40% quieter then their last revision hard to tell if the students version is quieter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2NSBAe6bdI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2NSBAe6bdI

unpopularopp 2y ago

Awful lot of NIMBY people on HN, that always surprises me

shiftpgdn 2y ago
Hating on a universal annoyance isn’t NIMBY behavior.

klankschap 2y ago

How about just leaving leaves for what they are. Just leave them and move on with your own life.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Exactly right. It's asinine to blow leaves. They don't do any damage and they create habitats for spiders and insects. I hate poeple who want clean, empty mowed lawns, aiming for an ideal that is far away from nature. Sickening.
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  Wet rotting leaves on a footpath are very slippery, so its helpful to be able to blow them off the footpath before they get all mushy
  - vouaobrasil 2y ago
    What? I've never once slipped on a leaf.
- sgarland 2y ago
  I don’t want a natural habitat in my yard. That’s what the woods behind my house are for. I want a clean, relatively flat, and soft field of grass that my kids can run around barefoot in. I’m all for natural beauty, but most people already live in urban or suburban environments. What’s the point in pretending when you’re surrounded by asphalt and brick?
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    It's nice to see things other than just asphalt and brick.
  - trgn 2y ago
    Yeah, it's called gardening, a different, curated expression of life. Wilderness can exist elsewhere. But leafblowers are mainly just antisocial technology.

klankschap 2y ago

How about leaving leaves for what they are. Just leave them and move on with your own life.

mlrtime 2y ago
Have you ever considered it's just a name and it's actually used on more than just leaves? Or was the post sarcasm? Poe's law.
- barfbagginus 2y ago
  If they are serious, then they are making the equivocation fallacy - arguing by using a word in two different ways and hoping nobody notices the mistake. But it's likely they are doing this as a pun, where readers are supposed to notice the equivocation, and find it funny or annoying. For example we can imagine a lazy husband saying "they're called leaves, so that is why I'm going to leave them for tomorrow!" This is not a serious attempt to equivocate the two meanings of "leave" - it communicates non willingness while also causing laughter or annoyance. An obvious equivocation is not usually an effective argument. But making it a pun can win points with a good humored audience, because they find it funny. Funny arguments can influence opinions even though we know they are nonsense. TLDR; when people mix word meanings secretly to confuse people and win points, it's equivocation, and that's a morally bad argument and is usually unacceptable. But when people mix meanings blatantly to win points by being funny, it's a pun, and that may be acceptable in non-serious conversations.
cityofdelusion 2y ago
I tried this when I first got a house. The leaves decompose and you end up shoveling a layer of mud off your waking surfaces. It also becomes incredibly slippery when wet. A dense layer of waxy oak leaves can be like walking on ice.
- digging 2y ago
  Hm, residential walking surfaces are easily swept with a broom though.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

chiefalchemist 2y ago

Tuesday I mowed the lawn. Yesterday morning, I got up, made coffee, grabbed my shop broom and cleaned up out front. Not a leaf blower insight. Sure it took a couple of extra minutes but I also got some light exercise. I understand why a lawn service uses a leaf blower. I don't understand why my neighbors do.

hyping9 2y ago
[flagged]
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  Hey whatever. I don't care. But when I hear a leaf blowers early on a Sunday or even a Saturday, I cringe. There's no reason miserable people need to make others miserable as well.

danielohrlund 2y ago

If it works I'll buy one for my neighbor as soon as they're available.

btbuildem 2y ago

[flagged]

dagurp 2y ago

I hope they'll put this on hand dryers too

linhns 2y ago

Can this idea be adapted to vacuum cleaner? Would appreciate that since my head starts to spin when I hear one.

hyping9 2y ago
It's called hearing protection. People wear it while operating heavy machinery, shooting guns, or being at rock concerts. Might not hurt to keep a pair around your home.

kreyenborgi 2y ago

https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104 https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104 moxie marlinspike invented one a few years ago

ZeroCool2u 2y ago
This was the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on this student design.

sandworm101 2y ago

A quieter leaf blower? No. They did not do that. They found a way to quiet an existing leaf blower. Adding a silencer to a gun doesn't mean that you have invented a new gun. >> They workshopped more than 40 versions of the solution they finally settled on: an attachment that cuts the machine's noise almost like a silencer on a gun or a muffler on a car. And for all the people screaming about electric v. gas, this isn't about that. This device looks like it could be used on any leaf blower, although the difference is probably less dramatic on a gas-powered model.

pferde 2y ago

Cool, now outlaw the loud ones in populated areas. Next step, the same thing with the obnoxiously loud motorbikes in cities.

WaltPurvis 2y ago

Can someone explain to me what "quieter" means in this context and/or how it's calculated? I don't understand what they mean when they say reducing the noise by 2 decibels made it 37% quieter -- it wasn't making only 5 decibels of noise before, was it? >>Their design cuts the most shrill and annoying frequencies by about 12 decibels, which all but removes them, making them 94% quieter. The team reduced the overall leaf blower noise by about two decibels, making the machine sound 37% quieter.

anarticle 2y ago
Decibels are log scale, reducing by 3db cuts energy by half.
tomoyoirl 2y ago
Decibels are logarithmic; a 1 dB reduction in sound is ~26%.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  But that is NOT the same as human perceived volume. Less 37% energy is not 37% less volume to humans. You won’t be able to tell the difference in volume except for the tone which could be more or less pleasing depending on the frequency they say they got 12db on.
  - WaltPurvis 2y ago
    I learned something new today (I didn't know decibels were logarithmic), but I still don't understand how it relates to "human perceived volume" as you put it. If a typical electric leaf blower makes 70 decibels of sound, it seems odd that cutting that to 67 decibels makes it sound 37% less loud. Perhaps it does, but I think I'll have to hear it to believe it. I may have to buy a sound meter and run some experiments.
    - calfuris 2y ago
      The sound has 37% less power, but human perception of sound intensity is roughly logarithmic. Looking at the difference in dB will give you a better estimate of the perceived change than the difference in actual sound power.

gumby 2y ago

Leaf blowers are pretty terrible for the yard, so anything that makes them more acceptable will just make things worse. Bad because they blow away topsoil, leaving a hard pack behind that absorbs little water. Just walking around my neighborhood it’s clear who doesn’t use a leaf blower: the dirt is crumbly and the plant life better. If people have pots as well you can see the difference between the two. Also bad because they blow away all the decaying leaf matter and bugs from under the bushes, again hardening the soil and losing a;l the advantages of bugs perforating the soil and drawing nutrients below. Of course you can try to fix this by adding chemicals…ugh

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
toss1 2y ago
Yes, it can be a real problem, that over-use. You can also fix this by using judicious aiming and throttle control and still be more efficient and easier on the exosystem vs raking. But you must first understand the issue and want to solve it. Unfortunately, most people, even "lansdscape pros" do not understand it, or want to take the extra care to do it. Source: my wife is extremely knowledgeable, educated, and passionate about the plant and soil ecosystems you describe, yet I was able to adjust technique to satisfy her scrutiny in a reasonably short time. You just have to get a clue and want to act on it. And yes, we've both seen more abuse done with a leaf-rake approach too. It's not the tool, it's the user, tho these blower tools make it easier to abuse at scale.

unglaublich 2y ago

Doesn't matter. We have quiet vacuum cleaners, quiet cars, quiet motorbikes, and quiet mowers, but that doesn't trigger the feeling of primal power that many buyers search for.

foobarian 2y ago

I got an electric leaf blower mostly to avoid the noise and partly to avoid gasoline engine issues (a Kobalt 80V blower). What baffles me is that here the designers had a chance to make something truly quiet but instead they blew it and used a super-high-RPM motor-powered narrow turbine placed inside the pipe. It sounds like a dental drill amplified through a set of loudspeakers. I would kill to get a commercially designed blower powered with a large squirrel cage driven by a low-RPM brushless motor. I'm sure they exist by now and I imagine they are glorious. I'm not sure what these students did but if I was doing that project today that is the first thing I would try.

Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Makes me wonder if they intentionally kept some noise to combat consumer perception that it was weaker than gas models.
- swayvil 2y ago
  Good point. If you want a good accurate model of human psychology, look to world of marketing. There is a similar noise-is-strength in vacuum cleaner sales.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    We all know loud pipes save lives, so just think of all of the lives you'd be putting at risk by making quieter anything.
    - Mountain_Skies 2y ago
      Back before they started adding in artificial noise, I almost got hit by a Prius because I couldn't hear it and the driver was distracted. It was only due to the noise of some loose gravel on the pavement that I became aware of the car and got out of the way.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    > There is a similar noise-is-strength in vacuum cleaner sales. Thankfully that seems to only really happen on the cheaper, or smaller end of the vacuum spectrum. My Shark handheld is so obnoxious that the dog tries to rip it out of my hands so she can chew it to pieces. My Sebo canister vac, on the other hand, is much quieter. It's a selling point. And it really, really sucks!

giovanni_or2 2y ago

I love the sound of a leaf blower. Makes me sleepy.

xyst 2y ago

Cool invention. Will the students get paid royalties or is the university and private company taking all of the royalties/profits?

kingcai 2y ago

This is cool. Kudos to the team too - I feel like this is what engineerings all about.

cruffle_duffle 2y ago

Naw. Leaf blowers should be straight up banned. They are pointless and a massive source of obnoxious noise pollution. Seriously though, what do they even do?

lupire 2y ago
They move leaves off of surfaces where they are a nuisance, to a disposal area.
- bluGill 2y ago
  So does a rake or broom. It needs more manual labor to do it that way.
  - Vaslo 2y ago
    Some yards are large and some people are older. They can’t take and lift leaves. Many communities have it so they can be blown the street and are picked up every few days - much less labor and effort than raking into piles, picking up, bagging etc.

handsclean 2y ago

There’s some other “quiet leaf blower” on the market, and all they’re doing is reducing power and telling you special nozzles make up for it, which of course they don’t. This article omitting performance measures is a red flag for me. What’s the CFM impact? It’s 40% quieter, but is it also 40% worse at blowing leaves?

stevage 2y ago
It says like 10 times in the video that equal performance was the KPI.
- handsclean 2y ago
  Timestamp? I’ve watched the video twice now and read the whole article and can’t find one mention of it. The closest is one statement of “it keeps all that force still there”, which is vague, definitely not the same thing as CFM, and sounds like the sort of statement that’s compatible with the aforementioned nozzle lines.

stevage 2y ago

You kind of get the impression that manufacturers never even bothered to try to make them quiet before.

ajmurmann 2y ago
While I'm usually very free market, I think this is a case where we have such a high negative externality that we need regulation. Everyone is annoyed by leaf blowers, but the tradeoff for users, especially commercial, of paying the extra cost isn't worth it to them. I don't think we should ban them, but have a maximum permitted noise level.

grugagag 2y ago

A rake is also an option

lotsoweiners 2y ago
Not when you have gravel landscaping and a yard full of shrubs with small leaves. The rake will work a little on the larger branches but won’t do a good job of cleaning up.

addingadimensio 2y ago

[dead]

dontupvoteme 2y ago

The innovative power of the hangover

the_real_cher 2y ago

Moxie Marlinspike tried this. Pretty decent try. https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104?lang=en https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1582154037700399104?lang=en

geocrasher 2y ago

What I loved about this is that all of their prototypes were with a stock leaf blower with *3D Printed* attachments. This really shows the value of the rapid prototyping that 3D Printing has allowed. It also shows that any of us could have done this with enough time and effort. And I don't mean literally any person- but there are a LOT of YouTube engineering channels that could likely have tackled this, had they been asked to.

pradn 2y ago
There's a lot of value in coming up with a clear problem statement and giving it to the right people. We see this with DARPA, at a much bigger scale.
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
There are a lot of ongoing attempts in the 3d printing community to replicate the Wilson airless basketball. I expect there will be similar efforts in to produce something similar to what the students created. Wonder if they applied for a patent and if that would prevent clones from being made.
cchance 2y ago
The funny part here is they say product, but in reality as soon as this ships someone will hit it with a hammer, figure out the internal layout with some calipers and we'll have an STL lol
- StimDeck 2y ago
  Can’t we just look for the patent application rather than wait two years for a concrete product?
pradn 2y ago
There's a lot of value in coming up with a clear problem statement and giving it to the right people. We see this with DARPA, at a much bigger scale. A lot of the value in engineering leadership is in making sure the right problems are being solved.

piokoch 2y ago

Leaf blowers are one of the most idiotic inventions ever made. What is good about moving throwing leafs from place A to place B, where they will be rotting in the same way. Blowing with all other dust and trash. Luckily they got recently banned in Warsaw.

unsupp0rted 2y ago

The first time I woke up in North America to the sound of a neighbor with a leaf blower, I asked myself how this could possibly be legal.

hindsightbias 2y ago
You should go to the beach and relax with a two-stroke jet ski.
- nisse72 2y ago
  or on a hike with a UE Boom

modeless 2y ago

We don't need quieter electric leaf blowers. We need to ban the gas ones, with no grandfather clause. Not just for the noise pollution but the local air pollution. It's crazy the volume of air that can be ruined by a single gas leaf blower, far worse than modern cars, and they are inescapable in cities.

Gibbon1 2y ago
I think leaf blowers kick up enough dust that they should just be banned outright.
riffic 2y ago
a buy-back program would be a good first step.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
They’ve been banned for years in some cities. The issue is there is zero enforcement.
- modeless 2y ago
  Yeah a ban in a suburb of a city doesn't work because they are brought in by landscaping companies not based in that suburb.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    Usually the ban is something like you cant use it in 500ft of a residence, which obviates that issue if cops bothered to patrol for this or if there was a reporting hotline that was well advertised.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  And the other underlying problem implied there is that electric leaf blowers are only viable for household use. They are just so completely impractical for commercial use that no one will ever use them.

Log_out_ 2y ago

It creates dustdevils that clean up your yard.

DasCorCor 2y ago

Put them up for the Nobel.

bibanez 2y ago
The Nobel of Peace, of course

rangledangle 2y ago

To me the noise was 10% of the problem. Who wants to breathe in what lies on the ground? Just lick it instead.

baerrie 2y ago

Thank god, i am so sensitive to all lawn equipment noise, this is a huge public good and I think there should be more restrictions on this class of machine, gas and electric

indigo0086 2y ago

Not one leaf blown.

pnielsen2 2y ago

The madlads they finally did it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eo2uq5k1O0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eo2uq5k1O0

nikolay 2y ago

I watched years ago a presentation at the City of Irvine, California, from a scientist that all these small engines (leaf blowers, mowers, etc.) pollute California's air way more than all cars combined. Also, the leak machine oil. To me personally, leaf blowers are bad not only due to their exausts, but because they also make all kinds of bacteria and pollutants airborne, most specifically, fungus, feces from animals, large particles, etc., which end up in our lung eventually. To me leafs are not a big issue. I'd rather have grass with decaying leaves then grass and leaf blowers! UPDATE: It seems that California has banned the sale, not the use of gas-powered small engines [0]! [0]: https://www.cityofirvine.org/environmental-programs/lawn-equipment-ban https://www.cityofirvine.org/environmental-programs/lawn-equ...

tmnvix 2y ago

I still recall a tragicomic leafblower event that made the local news when I lived in Australia. A caretaker was killed when a tree fell on him while he was using a leafblower during a storm. The added irony was that he was doing this at 'The Lodge' - the official residence of the Australian Prime Minister which had been vacant for some time because the Prime Minister refused to live their (preferring a residence in Sydney). So an entirely unnecessary event all around.

moribvndvs 2y ago

I welcome even quieter electric, but the two stroke engine on most blowers (particularly the pack blowers) is the real problem and they are EVERYWHERE. Every day from sun up to sun down from March until December my neighborhood has a nearly constant drone and reeks of two stroke gas. It has gotten so much worse over the past 7 years I’ve lived here, and sharply worse since pandemic. I dunno if it’s attributed to more affordable pack models becoming more popular with homeowners or increased usage of landscapers, but it has become an extreme nuisance. I have a handheld electric to help with a couple of hard to reach spots. While it’s not as quiet as I wish, you can’t (well, least I can’t, from my testing) really hear it after about 75 to 100 feet. The surrounding neighbors’ blowers can be heard over a quarter mile away when I’m walking around the block. It has ruined enjoying time out in the backyard, especially during the fall which is my favorite season.

philbin 2y ago

[dead]

adamlookvarrk 2y ago

[flagged]

rldjbpin 2y ago

love the ingenuity but this reminds me of the "pen vs pencil in space" myth. while the residents should not be really using them in the first place, i hope local municipalities would acquire quieter options for maintaining public spaces.