7 ms·

EU's new tech laws are working – small browsers gain market share

78 points by jaredwiener 3y ago

olliej 3y ago
I can’t read the article, it just gives an opening paragraph with no actual statistics but based on other comments it appears that it’s the predictable result: a chrome only web.
- Liquid_Fire 3y ago
  There's a "Read more" link at the bottom, which links to the actual article - not sure why that's not the submission: https://www.forth.news/bots/reuters/articles/66161a6836b7020cea0a4556 https://www.forth.news/bots/reuters/articles/66161a6836b7020...
  - olliej 3y ago
    thanks!
- kristiandupont 3y ago
  I am fearful of this as well, but I don't think that most iPhone users will switch.
Voultapher 3y ago
The first browser mentioned is Aloha browser: > Web freely with the built-in Web3 crypto wallet Second point on their website ... Also small browsers, that are all chromium based. The only exceptions I'm aware of are: - https://ladybird.dev/ https://ladybird.dev/ - https://www.ekioh.com/flow-browser/ https://www.ekioh.com/flow-browser/ never heard about this one before, but found it while searching.
- fredski42 3y ago
  Have a look at Orion browser from Kagi for IOS and MacOS. It’s pretty awesome!
  - pasc1878 3y ago
    It is webkit based.
    - altairprime 3y ago
      It is not chromium based.
  - Voultapher 3y ago
    I've tried it on IOS a while back, but found the UI a bit clunky and either blocking too much screen real-estate or making tab-switching too cumbersome. But it's certainly a cool project, especially by providing ublock origin on IOS.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > Also small browsers, that are all chromium based Why is that a problem? Implementing a browser from scratch is an insanely complicated task (bloody Microsoft abandoned it!), and Chromium is kind of the gold standard. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to develop a new browser entirely from scratch.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Because it gives companies with resources to direct the development of chromium de facto power to control web standards. Also, what makes chromium the gold standard compared to, say, Firefox?
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    Blink has overwhelming power over the web by this point. People are already mistaking Blink-only APIs for web standards and complaining that other browsers aren’t implementing them. We’re on the cusp of the bad old days of a browser monopoly and Safari is the only real hedge against it. Even Mozilla doesn’t care about Firefox any more.
    - ghusto 3y ago
      Why do you say Mozilla doesn't care about Firefox any more?
- PoignardAzur 3y ago
  There's also Servo.
shmerl 3y ago
Did iOS get a proper Firefox now?
- vincnetas 3y ago
  For EU countries - yes.At least its now up to firefox to provide it and apple can not block it.
  - sambazi 3y ago
    pretty sure they already cooked up a legally convincing argument for why they have to block it
- whazor 3y ago
  As far as I know there no browser yet on iOS in EU using a different engine than WebKit. The main issue seems to be that it has to be EU-only and companies would have to maintain two applications.
  - Baguette5242 3y ago
    It's really a short sighted vision from Mozilla (and others). No doubt that further regions will just copy/paste/modify the current EU framework and apply it locally, there's already discussions in Japan, South Korea and so on (1). Saying "We have no plans to maintain two version of the browser just for the EU" is just ignoring what is likely to happen in the future: An extension of this specific EU legislative framework in several parts of the world. (1) https://cepa.org/article/europes-dma-goes-global/ https://cepa.org/article/europes-dma-goes-global/
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    Why 2 applications? You mean a webkit version and the real Firefox? What is even the benefit of using another browser on current iOS if it's the same as safari under the hood? Just a bit of UI?
    - nehal3m 3y ago
vincnetas 3y ago
Yesterday after iOS upgrade i was pleasantly surprised by popup asking me what browser i would like to use. I picked Safari anyways, but it felt good. Thank you EU. I know now that if i change my mind i can go to settings and pick any other browser. And not thank you Apple because this is not the case in non EU countries and not the case for iPad, because EU did not classified ipads same way as iphones and Apple Inc took advantage of this instead of unifying user experience.
- frizlab 3y ago
  Personally I was pissed by another popup I do not want. To each his own.
  - alibarber 3y ago
    We’ve probably become numb to it thanks to cookie warnings. Whatever the intentions of that law where, and however against the spirit of it the companies implementing the ‘we care about your privacy’ popover whilst offering the option to opt out of data sharing with their 500 ‘partners’ - the law has failed in this regard. Perhaps even all these sites are breaking said law, in which case I am sure enforcement will be swift and firm.
    - vincnetas 3y ago
      I would not compare it to cookie popup, as this is a question that you get after starting using a phone. So basically one time. For new user it looks just like regular startup sequence after unboxing fresh device. Of course if i was evil corporate drone and would like to piss of EU and had means for that, i would show this pop up to choose browser regularly and unexpectedly to piss off end users and then blame it on EU that they have "forced" to do this.
  - pixxel 3y ago
    Pissed. Let’s be honest: you dismissed the one-time useful question and instantly forgot about it.
jiehong 3y ago
I’m pretty sure this makes Google happy too: I’ve been seeing a lot more ads about Google chrome with an iPhone on YouTube. I guess gmail might not stop asking you to make sure you want to open a link with your default browser instead of chrome, even if you click “remember my choice”.
- rahkiin 3y ago
  Thank you, I was wondering if that was just coincidence. Google has been pushing Chrome ever since Apple announced BrowserKit. And they do it on their own platforms (which is free for them) with features Safari also has. Apple might need to start paying google for ads to counter-promote safari.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Google must be thrilled. The last hold out iOS will now be dominated by Chromium browsers. Which means that Apple’s anti-tracking mechanisms will be rendered ineffective and we will see a new pro-advertising world where every advertiser will be able to track you with ease. Or did people forget how Google makes its money ? All championed by the very developers who say they care about privacy and competition.
  - the_gipsy 3y ago
    Apple just makes the whole web experience crappy. So that you install some app that tracks much more than a website could dream of. And they get their cut.
  - quitit 3y ago
    The EU PR playbook for writing bad legislation: When harmful for competition: “We’ll say it’s good for user choice”. When harmful to users: “We’ll say it’s good for competition.” The act of writing a law that will result in Google’s Chrome total market dominance will of course fall under “user choice”. Meanwhile music streaming market leader Spotify has announced a price increase of 9% in the UK (and assuredly others soon) and simultaneously demonetised all artists with less than 1000 streams per annum. Naturally the EU has nothing to say about that because it’s one of their own this time.
luciusdomitius 3y ago
small browsers == wrapped chromium/webkit whitelabels. what a win. brave is cool though
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Who cares about the piping underneath? The only thing important about that is if they all display the same thing for the same HTML&JS. Chrome has been becoming the new IE with the websites giving the best experience on Chrome - only. That's the risk. What pipes the browser makers choose to rely on is between them and pipe makers I guess. Probably the pipe makers should focus on the developer experience.
  - PeterSmit 3y ago
    It's all fun and games until the websites you need (bank, local government, etc) only support the pipes build by a tech corp in a faraway country. Diversity is good and healthy.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      We are on the same page here.
    - Barrin92 3y ago
      >until the websites you need (bank, local government, etc) only support the pipes build by a tech corp in a faraway country they don't get to decide this if push comes to shove. Banks and governments in European jurisdictions obviously can be forced to comply with European laws and if there was some geopolitical question about security you can just force them to switch to a local fork of Chromium which given that it's open source is technically relatively trivial. It's the same as Linux essentially. The overwhelming majority of commits comes from RedHat, Huawei and Samsung or other international corps which is fine because there's always the implicit option to fork it. We don't need fifty different kernels given that we're talking about open source software. In the olden days of Internet explorer and dependence on proprietary software this argument made sense because you could theoretically be squeezed without an ad-hoc alternative, but that's not the case any more.
that_guy_iain 3y ago
But aren't a lot of people looking to move away from Chrome because they're going to break ad blockers and Edge and co are just going to keep that breaking change so people need to look for smaller browsers that will still allow them to block ads.
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  We already have Brave. The only thing this browser needs is to have multiple profiles on android and it will be perfect.
  - ghusto 3y ago
    Brave will use manifest v3 too though, no?
  - that_guy_iain 3y ago
    Which is a small independent browser.
0xfedbee 3y ago
What a hypocrisy. At one hand they encourage free market, and on the other they do shit like this. This rent-seeking-from-US-corpos model isn't gonna work long for EU. Camel's back will be broken and everyone will regret, including this stupid policy makers.
- mmkos 3y ago
  Free markets don't work. Corporations absolutely will abuse their position and power to establish monopolies wherever they can, blocking any new entrants to the market. I wonder how we (europeans) would ever regret regulation to stifle monopolistic behaviours from American behemoths.
  - throwaway94612 3y ago
    How many tech monopolies can you name?
    - sofixa 3y ago
      As long as you don't interpret monopoly to have to mean 100% market share, but an overwhelming portion of the market, enough to be able to disrupt it, prevent any new entrants, and abuse the leading position without the fear of repercussions, plenty. * Google in search, video, browser, email * Meta in social media for massive age segments (what, 30-70?; younger than that may be on Snapchat/TikTok (too)) * Amazon in online retail, and specifically in online books and e-readers * Microsoft in desktop OS and productivity suite, especially for business If we go into oligopolies, where there are a very small amount of market players that can still abuse their position, we can also add video and audio streaming, mobile phones and tablets, CPU and GPU manufacturers, smart watches, etc.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  When something gets too big, laws are necessary to allow competition. See USA breaking up Standard Oil and AT&T. Also USA almost breaking up Microsoft. Otherwise you will ends up in Russia-style oligarchy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jamesy0ung 3y ago
Direct link to the actual article: https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-working-small-browsers-gain-market-share-2024-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-wor...
quitit 3y ago
This just in: forcing a mandatory selection from a mandatory screen results in people making a mandatory selection to go about their day. Even should users select at random, would this result in a market share increase for alternative browsers. Celebrating this gain early is firmly “counting the chickens before they’ve hatched”. Let’s see if users actually stick to these alternative browsers or if the market merely reciprocates what we have on desktop: lots of Chrome users. I’d eat my hat if it turns out any different, because I’m not so naive to believe that one mandatory click-through would stand against Google’s web properties constantly asking the user to switch to Chrome. Last time I checked, moving even more of the market under a single vendor was the opposite of competition and the consumer’s interest.
- asjdflakjsdf 3y ago
  There is also a significant distrust of Google (and other large tech companies) growing in Europe, and probably most other places outside of the US. Tie that with the fact that they are now charging people for using photos/email etc, there has never been a better time to cut ties with the company where possible. I'm sure Chrome will remain the most popular browser for now but the younger generations might be more inclined to use products with less "baggage".
- ghusto 3y ago
  I'm more hopeful. Just as most wouldn't bother digging through their settings to change their browser away from Safari, they also won't bother digging through their settings to change their browser _back_ to Safari. I think it'll make a small dent, which can hopefully be capitalised on later.
- rcbdev 3y ago
  Considering lots of states and countries in the EU are trying to move their public sector stuff (incl. schools, school-issued devices etc.) away from FAANG licenses, children will start to get more exposure to alternative solutions early on. I think the current wave of absolute failure to respect or even understand European privacy needs coming from California is going to lead to generational knock-on effects. There's a very good cultural reason why no-one here has even heard about green/blue/yellow chat messages, why Apple has no majority market share, why state and federal governments all over the EU have tried and are still trying to ditch Microsoft. Only now it's not just about the cultural difference in respect for the privacy of your fellow man, now it's also about strategic importance and even our own sovereignty.
Yizahi 3y ago
Cyprus-based Aloha Chrome Norway's Vivaldi Chrome Germany's Ecosia Chrome U.S.-based Brave Chrome U.S.-based DuckDuckGo Chrome (truly a disappointment) Norway-based (actually Chinese-based) Opera Chrome Hurray, "small" browsers are winning! Gud news everyone! :) We need to establish some name for this bullshit. For example similar to "greenwashing" in the energy sector, we can call this disinformation campaign a "chromewashing". PS: not that I expected a quality journalism from the unknown site forth,news, but not even mentioning Firefox as a true real alternative in the whole article is baffling. Sure, it gets a small mention in the end, but not on it's own merits, but as an example of some Apple's business process problem. Not a word that this is the only Chrome alternative left on some OSes.
- rcbdev 3y ago
  If you follow the money it all leads back to Alphabet Inc. anyways, even in Mozilla's case - from that perspective it might be reasoned that a differentiation is unnecessary. From a purely technical standpoint you are correct, of course.
  - Yizahi 3y ago
    Yeah, Mozilla being in a Google's pocket and Foundation having questionable finance structure is a disappointment.
- M95D 3y ago
  How much did you contribute (code or donations) to Firefox, Netsurf, Dillo, Links, Lynx, or other non-Chrome browsers?
  - Yizahi 3y ago
    Oh, we are using ad hominems now, great. My answer is 0 (zero). Now the counter question - how much money did you personally contribute directly (taxes don't count) to any alternative to anything you were dissatisfied with? Name the issue and the amount. If you will not name at least one issue, I will consider that lie (deliberate or by omission). And the second question to you - how the hell is YOUR question even relevant to the discussion of Google's browser monopoly?
ghusto 3y ago
This could have been fantastic, but has been bureaucratted to shitdom by the EU in the same way they "solved" daylight savings time. Mozilla will now need to invest the limited resources they have to port Gecko to iPhones in the EU — read: _iPhones_ and iPhones only, not iPads, and not for any market other than the EU. Meanwhile, everyone will install Chrome, and we're done with the second wave of the browser wars.
logicprog 3y ago
Classic Apple: > In iPhones, users can see the choice screen only when they click Safari, and then users are shown a list of browsers with no additional information, said Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner, CEO of Norway's Vivaldi. > "The process is just so convoluted that it's easiest for (users) to select Safari or potentially some other known name," he said. > The complicated design has led European Commission to start a non-compliance investigation into whether Apple may be preventing users from truly exercising their choice of services. It's very fun to see that the EU is refusing to give up and take Apple's passive aggressive compliance on any front!
- jajko 3y ago
  Blatant a-holish behavior towards tens of millions of users should and will be punished. Plus its outright childish, exactly opposite direction Apple tries so hard via marketing to project itself into. Maybe few hundred millions additional fine will cool some oversized egos in management. If not, add 0, and keep repeating, we are too sweet and rich market to ignore and continuously insult. How anybody can buy products form this company and feel they are buying from somehow better and more moral vendor than rest of the market is beyond my understanding.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    Just think, you and I are lucky enough to be on a website chock-full of iPhone apologists, $AAPL owners and enterprising madmen. The comments can only get better from here.
  - pixxel 3y ago
    > How anybody can buy products form this company and feel they are buying from somehow better and more moral vendor than rest of the market is beyond my understanding > marketing
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Actual article: https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-working-small-browsers-gain-market-share-2024-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-wor... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39987518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39987518)
sotix 3y ago
There’s an old joke about the hotels in a beach town nearby that are owned by a Vegas casino owner and how he has them wired up and ready to go the day the state legalizes gambling. Not having Firefox built on Gecko ready to go is an absolutely massive misstep from Mozilla. I’m having trouble understanding how their leadership didn’t prioritize this based purely on the timeline of public proceedings I had available to me. Presumably they had even more advanced knowledge. What has Mozilla been prioritizing?

78 points by jaredwiener 3y ago

I can’t read the article, it just gives an opening paragraph with no actual statistics but based on other comments it appears that it’s the predictable result: a chrome only web.

Liquid_Fire 3y ago
There's a "Read more" link at the bottom, which links to the actual article - not sure why that's not the submission: https://www.forth.news/bots/reuters/articles/66161a6836b7020cea0a4556 https://www.forth.news/bots/reuters/articles/66161a6836b7020...
- olliej 3y ago
  thanks!
kristiandupont 3y ago
I am fearful of this as well, but I don't think that most iPhone users will switch.

Voultapher 3y ago

The first browser mentioned is Aloha browser: > Web freely with the built-in Web3 crypto wallet Second point on their website ... Also small browsers, that are all chromium based. The only exceptions I'm aware of are: - https://ladybird.dev/ https://ladybird.dev/ - https://www.ekioh.com/flow-browser/ https://www.ekioh.com/flow-browser/ never heard about this one before, but found it while searching.

fredski42 3y ago
Have a look at Orion browser from Kagi for IOS and MacOS. It’s pretty awesome!
- pasc1878 3y ago
  It is webkit based.
  - altairprime 3y ago
    It is not chromium based.
- Voultapher 3y ago
  I've tried it on IOS a while back, but found the UI a bit clunky and either blocking too much screen real-estate or making tab-switching too cumbersome. But it's certainly a cool project, especially by providing ublock origin on IOS.
sofixa 3y ago
> Also small browsers, that are all chromium based Why is that a problem? Implementing a browser from scratch is an insanely complicated task (bloody Microsoft abandoned it!), and Chromium is kind of the gold standard. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to develop a new browser entirely from scratch.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Because it gives companies with resources to direct the development of chromium de facto power to control web standards. Also, what makes chromium the gold standard compared to, say, Firefox?
- JimDabell 3y ago
  Blink has overwhelming power over the web by this point. People are already mistaking Blink-only APIs for web standards and complaining that other browsers aren’t implementing them. We’re on the cusp of the bad old days of a browser monopoly and Safari is the only real hedge against it. Even Mozilla doesn’t care about Firefox any more.
  - ghusto 3y ago
    Why do you say Mozilla doesn't care about Firefox any more?
PoignardAzur 3y ago
There's also Servo.

shmerl 3y ago

Did iOS get a proper Firefox now?

vincnetas 3y ago
For EU countries - yes.At least its now up to firefox to provide it and apple can not block it.
- sambazi 3y ago
  pretty sure they already cooked up a legally convincing argument for why they have to block it
whazor 3y ago
As far as I know there no browser yet on iOS in EU using a different engine than WebKit. The main issue seems to be that it has to be EU-only and companies would have to maintain two applications.
- Baguette5242 3y ago
  It's really a short sighted vision from Mozilla (and others). No doubt that further regions will just copy/paste/modify the current EU framework and apply it locally, there's already discussions in Japan, South Korea and so on (1). Saying "We have no plans to maintain two version of the browser just for the EU" is just ignoring what is likely to happen in the future: An extension of this specific EU legislative framework in several parts of the world. (1) https://cepa.org/article/europes-dma-goes-global/ https://cepa.org/article/europes-dma-goes-global/
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  Why 2 applications? You mean a webkit version and the real Firefox? What is even the benefit of using another browser on current iOS if it's the same as safari under the hood? Just a bit of UI?
  - nehal3m 3y ago

vincnetas 3y ago

Yesterday after iOS upgrade i was pleasantly surprised by popup asking me what browser i would like to use. I picked Safari anyways, but it felt good. Thank you EU. I know now that if i change my mind i can go to settings and pick any other browser. And not thank you Apple because this is not the case in non EU countries and not the case for iPad, because EU did not classified ipads same way as iphones and Apple Inc took advantage of this instead of unifying user experience.

frizlab 3y ago
Personally I was pissed by another popup I do not want. To each his own.
- alibarber 3y ago
  We’ve probably become numb to it thanks to cookie warnings. Whatever the intentions of that law where, and however against the spirit of it the companies implementing the ‘we care about your privacy’ popover whilst offering the option to opt out of data sharing with their 500 ‘partners’ - the law has failed in this regard. Perhaps even all these sites are breaking said law, in which case I am sure enforcement will be swift and firm.
  - vincnetas 3y ago
    I would not compare it to cookie popup, as this is a question that you get after starting using a phone. So basically one time. For new user it looks just like regular startup sequence after unboxing fresh device. Of course if i was evil corporate drone and would like to piss of EU and had means for that, i would show this pop up to choose browser regularly and unexpectedly to piss off end users and then blame it on EU that they have "forced" to do this.
- pixxel 3y ago
  Pissed. Let’s be honest: you dismissed the one-time useful question and instantly forgot about it.

jiehong 3y ago

I’m pretty sure this makes Google happy too: I’ve been seeing a lot more ads about Google chrome with an iPhone on YouTube. I guess gmail might not stop asking you to make sure you want to open a link with your default browser instead of chrome, even if you click “remember my choice”.

rahkiin 3y ago
Thank you, I was wondering if that was just coincidence. Google has been pushing Chrome ever since Apple announced BrowserKit. And they do it on their own platforms (which is free for them) with features Safari also has. Apple might need to start paying google for ads to counter-promote safari.
threeseed 3y ago
Google must be thrilled. The last hold out iOS will now be dominated by Chromium browsers. Which means that Apple’s anti-tracking mechanisms will be rendered ineffective and we will see a new pro-advertising world where every advertiser will be able to track you with ease. Or did people forget how Google makes its money ? All championed by the very developers who say they care about privacy and competition.
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  Apple just makes the whole web experience crappy. So that you install some app that tracks much more than a website could dream of. And they get their cut.
- quitit 3y ago
  The EU PR playbook for writing bad legislation: When harmful for competition: “We’ll say it’s good for user choice”. When harmful to users: “We’ll say it’s good for competition.” The act of writing a law that will result in Google’s Chrome total market dominance will of course fall under “user choice”. Meanwhile music streaming market leader Spotify has announced a price increase of 9% in the UK (and assuredly others soon) and simultaneously demonetised all artists with less than 1000 streams per annum. Naturally the EU has nothing to say about that because it’s one of their own this time.

luciusdomitius 3y ago

small browsers == wrapped chromium/webkit whitelabels. what a win. brave is cool though

mrtksn 3y ago
Who cares about the piping underneath? The only thing important about that is if they all display the same thing for the same HTML&JS. Chrome has been becoming the new IE with the websites giving the best experience on Chrome - only. That's the risk. What pipes the browser makers choose to rely on is between them and pipe makers I guess. Probably the pipe makers should focus on the developer experience.
- PeterSmit 3y ago
  It's all fun and games until the websites you need (bank, local government, etc) only support the pipes build by a tech corp in a faraway country. Diversity is good and healthy.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    We are on the same page here.
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    >until the websites you need (bank, local government, etc) only support the pipes build by a tech corp in a faraway country they don't get to decide this if push comes to shove. Banks and governments in European jurisdictions obviously can be forced to comply with European laws and if there was some geopolitical question about security you can just force them to switch to a local fork of Chromium which given that it's open source is technically relatively trivial. It's the same as Linux essentially. The overwhelming majority of commits comes from RedHat, Huawei and Samsung or other international corps which is fine because there's always the implicit option to fork it. We don't need fifty different kernels given that we're talking about open source software. In the olden days of Internet explorer and dependence on proprietary software this argument made sense because you could theoretically be squeezed without an ad-hoc alternative, but that's not the case any more.

that_guy_iain 3y ago

But aren't a lot of people looking to move away from Chrome because they're going to break ad blockers and Edge and co are just going to keep that breaking change so people need to look for smaller browsers that will still allow them to block ads.

ReptileMan 3y ago
We already have Brave. The only thing this browser needs is to have multiple profiles on android and it will be perfect.
- ghusto 3y ago
  Brave will use manifest v3 too though, no?
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  Which is a small independent browser.

0xfedbee 3y ago

What a hypocrisy. At one hand they encourage free market, and on the other they do shit like this. This rent-seeking-from-US-corpos model isn't gonna work long for EU. Camel's back will be broken and everyone will regret, including this stupid policy makers.

mmkos 3y ago
Free markets don't work. Corporations absolutely will abuse their position and power to establish monopolies wherever they can, blocking any new entrants to the market. I wonder how we (europeans) would ever regret regulation to stifle monopolistic behaviours from American behemoths.
- throwaway94612 3y ago
  How many tech monopolies can you name?
  - sofixa 3y ago
    As long as you don't interpret monopoly to have to mean 100% market share, but an overwhelming portion of the market, enough to be able to disrupt it, prevent any new entrants, and abuse the leading position without the fear of repercussions, plenty. * Google in search, video, browser, email * Meta in social media for massive age segments (what, 30-70?; younger than that may be on Snapchat/TikTok (too)) * Amazon in online retail, and specifically in online books and e-readers * Microsoft in desktop OS and productivity suite, especially for business If we go into oligopolies, where there are a very small amount of market players that can still abuse their position, we can also add video and audio streaming, mobile phones and tablets, CPU and GPU manufacturers, smart watches, etc.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
When something gets too big, laws are necessary to allow competition. See USA breaking up Standard Oil and AT&T. Also USA almost breaking up Microsoft. Otherwise you will ends up in Russia-style oligarchy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jamesy0ung 3y ago

Direct link to the actual article: https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-working-small-browsers-gain-market-share-2024-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-wor...

quitit 3y ago

This just in: forcing a mandatory selection from a mandatory screen results in people making a mandatory selection to go about their day. Even should users select at random, would this result in a market share increase for alternative browsers. Celebrating this gain early is firmly “counting the chickens before they’ve hatched”. Let’s see if users actually stick to these alternative browsers or if the market merely reciprocates what we have on desktop: lots of Chrome users. I’d eat my hat if it turns out any different, because I’m not so naive to believe that one mandatory click-through would stand against Google’s web properties constantly asking the user to switch to Chrome. Last time I checked, moving even more of the market under a single vendor was the opposite of competition and the consumer’s interest.

asjdflakjsdf 3y ago
There is also a significant distrust of Google (and other large tech companies) growing in Europe, and probably most other places outside of the US. Tie that with the fact that they are now charging people for using photos/email etc, there has never been a better time to cut ties with the company where possible. I'm sure Chrome will remain the most popular browser for now but the younger generations might be more inclined to use products with less "baggage".
ghusto 3y ago
I'm more hopeful. Just as most wouldn't bother digging through their settings to change their browser away from Safari, they also won't bother digging through their settings to change their browser _back_ to Safari. I think it'll make a small dent, which can hopefully be capitalised on later.
rcbdev 3y ago
Considering lots of states and countries in the EU are trying to move their public sector stuff (incl. schools, school-issued devices etc.) away from FAANG licenses, children will start to get more exposure to alternative solutions early on. I think the current wave of absolute failure to respect or even understand European privacy needs coming from California is going to lead to generational knock-on effects. There's a very good cultural reason why no-one here has even heard about green/blue/yellow chat messages, why Apple has no majority market share, why state and federal governments all over the EU have tried and are still trying to ditch Microsoft. Only now it's not just about the cultural difference in respect for the privacy of your fellow man, now it's also about strategic importance and even our own sovereignty.

Yizahi 3y ago

Cyprus-based Aloha Chrome Norway's Vivaldi Chrome Germany's Ecosia Chrome U.S.-based Brave Chrome U.S.-based DuckDuckGo Chrome (truly a disappointment) Norway-based (actually Chinese-based) Opera Chrome Hurray, "small" browsers are winning! Gud news everyone! :) We need to establish some name for this bullshit. For example similar to "greenwashing" in the energy sector, we can call this disinformation campaign a "chromewashing". PS: not that I expected a quality journalism from the unknown site forth,news, but not even mentioning Firefox as a true real alternative in the whole article is baffling. Sure, it gets a small mention in the end, but not on it's own merits, but as an example of some Apple's business process problem. Not a word that this is the only Chrome alternative left on some OSes.

rcbdev 3y ago
If you follow the money it all leads back to Alphabet Inc. anyways, even in Mozilla's case - from that perspective it might be reasoned that a differentiation is unnecessary. From a purely technical standpoint you are correct, of course.
- Yizahi 3y ago
  Yeah, Mozilla being in a Google's pocket and Foundation having questionable finance structure is a disappointment.
M95D 3y ago
How much did you contribute (code or donations) to Firefox, Netsurf, Dillo, Links, Lynx, or other non-Chrome browsers?
- Yizahi 3y ago
  Oh, we are using ad hominems now, great. My answer is 0 (zero). Now the counter question - how much money did you personally contribute directly (taxes don't count) to any alternative to anything you were dissatisfied with? Name the issue and the amount. If you will not name at least one issue, I will consider that lie (deliberate or by omission). And the second question to you - how the hell is YOUR question even relevant to the discussion of Google's browser monopoly?

ghusto 3y ago

This could have been fantastic, but has been bureaucratted to shitdom by the EU in the same way they "solved" daylight savings time. Mozilla will now need to invest the limited resources they have to port Gecko to iPhones in the EU — read: _iPhones_ and iPhones only, not iPads, and not for any market other than the EU. Meanwhile, everyone will install Chrome, and we're done with the second wave of the browser wars.

logicprog 3y ago

Classic Apple: > In iPhones, users can see the choice screen only when they click Safari, and then users are shown a list of browsers with no additional information, said Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner, CEO of Norway's Vivaldi. > "The process is just so convoluted that it's easiest for (users) to select Safari or potentially some other known name," he said. > The complicated design has led European Commission to start a non-compliance investigation into whether Apple may be preventing users from truly exercising their choice of services. It's very fun to see that the EU is refusing to give up and take Apple's passive aggressive compliance on any front!

jajko 3y ago
Blatant a-holish behavior towards tens of millions of users should and will be punished. Plus its outright childish, exactly opposite direction Apple tries so hard via marketing to project itself into. Maybe few hundred millions additional fine will cool some oversized egos in management. If not, add 0, and keep repeating, we are too sweet and rich market to ignore and continuously insult. How anybody can buy products form this company and feel they are buying from somehow better and more moral vendor than rest of the market is beyond my understanding.
- talldayo 3y ago
  Just think, you and I are lucky enough to be on a website chock-full of iPhone apologists, $AAPL owners and enterprising madmen. The comments can only get better from here.
- pixxel 3y ago
  > How anybody can buy products form this company and feel they are buying from somehow better and more moral vendor than rest of the market is beyond my understanding > marketing

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Actual article: https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-working-small-browsers-gain-market-share-2024-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/eus-new-tech-laws-are-wor... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39987518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39987518)

sotix 3y ago

There’s an old joke about the hotels in a beach town nearby that are owned by a Vegas casino owner and how he has them wired up and ready to go the day the state legalizes gambling. Not having Firefox built on Gecko ready to go is an absolutely massive misstep from Mozilla. I’m having trouble understanding how their leadership didn’t prioritize this based purely on the timeline of public proceedings I had available to me. Presumably they had even more advanced knowledge. What has Mozilla been prioritizing?