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The Rise and Fall of 3M's Floppy Disk (2023)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CharlesW 3y agoThis article implies multiple times that 3M invented the floppy disk. They did not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_floppy_disk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_floppy_disk https://web.archive.org/web/20161222064003/http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ibm100/us/en/icons/floppy/ https://web.archive.org/web/20161222064003/http://www-03.ibm...
- charrondev 3y agoDid you read the article? This is a few pages in: > Now, to be clear, 3M did not invent magnetic storage—that was done by Austro-German engineer Fritz Pfleumer, in 1928. He created audio tape, a recording medium that started as broad strips of paper coated with iron-powder granules, and eventually moved to less-fragile cellulose acetate with help from what would become another big name in floppy disks, BASF. At first, the innovation didn’t spread outside of Germany because of World War II.
- CharlesW 3y agoMy friend, I didn't say "magnetic storage". The title says "3M's Floppy Disk", which implies that 3M created the floppy disk. The subtitle calls 3M, "the high-profile creator of magnetic media", only later making it clear that this is also incorrect. This also implies that 3M invented the floppy: "…3M started with the raw materials and the manufacturing processes, and combined those into computing’s greatest commodity item, the floppy disk." Finally, the article notes that the only medium that 3M did have a hand in creating, the Floptical disk, flopped. Assuming that the author even realizes that they're being ambiguous, I would've preferred that they didn't misrepresent 3M's role.
- robbiep 3y agoNot op but > The title says "3M's Floppy Disk", which implies that 3M created the floppy disk If I put up a blog post about Robbiep’s spaghetti bolognaise, or Robbiep’s quadcopter, I don’t think anyone would misinterpret me as having invented those things. It’s an apostrophe of ownership, not an apostrophe of authourship. Despite what it says elsewhere in the article
- LarsDu88 3y agoI remember being super hyped for the successor of the floppy disk back as a kid in the 90s... Iomega Zip Drives. And then getting super hyped for the successor to the CD... the BluRay, and wondering what sort of holographic multi terabyte wizardry would be the nextgen of optical disks. Now we are in 2024 and what actually happened is no one owns their movie or music libraries anymore... they are all streamed from some remote CDN somewhere, and most content creators get paid a pittance compared to what they did in the old world. At least we still have thumbsticks...
- sebastianavina 3y agoyou can download any music you want on youtube as mp3s. store them on a usb drive and plug it on your car, or store it in your computer and store a huge music library... but why bother yourself doing that if you can stream directly on any platform...
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y agom4a*. Or Opus.
- Dalewyn 3y ago>why bother You don't need an internet connection and don't have to worry about data caps or terrible jetliner satellite internet right then and there?
- defrost 3y agoYour experience may vary, in my experience: * things I've liked don't always stay on youtube or appear on spotify, and * streaming|internet isn't always available (remote area FiFo, underground, etc.)
- derwiki 3y agoBecause it might go away? My Youtube saved lists are littered with removed videos. And I _do_ use a USB flash drive in my car of curated* music; it’s an always available radio station without and phone fiddling. *curated= just Grateful Dead recordings
- fdr 3y ago> If you ask the average person what the company 3M does, odds are if they have a few gray hairs hanging out on their scalp, they might say that the company makes floppy disks. I think that's an interesting perception of the public. I think of 3M making all sorts of things, generally, I admire the company...in spite of some rather grotesque blunders and bad behavior. But the first thing that comes to mind is adhesive tape (also mentioned in the article)
- dhosek 3y agoThey bought a former employer of mine which was responsible for a universal file opening program (most famously incorporated into Lotus Notes). When I started there, they were Intranet Solutions, and then became Innosoft and Stellant before becoming a division of 3M.
- renegade-otter 3y agoTotally. My house walls are plastered with M3 Velcro tape that holds everything from hooks to artwork. Really, a marvel of chemical engineering. Those hold quite a load and then you pull down the strip and the adhesive comes off the wall like nothing was ever there.
- hackernewds 3y agoThat has almost never been true for me. Every time I take something off paint chips
- adrianN 3y agoClearly you need some 3M paint on your walls.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoI immediately think of their products I use on a regular basis. There are so many. - micropore tape for mycelium and tissue cultures - reusable respirators and cartridges - net sanding disks - double sided tape for so many things - foam ear plugs and earmuffs - scouring pads for shop/kitchen/aquarium - HEPA air filters for work and home - command strips for all kinds of hanging and affixing needs - adhesive spray, mostly for wood working or working with templates - stripping pads The list goes on. There are alternatives from other brands, but a few of these are hard to compromise on and 3M does an incredible job. Their cubitron mesh/net sanding discs for example. I also like their respirator equipment too much to switch out another brand. Then finally it might seem insignificant but their double sided tapes are really good. When you find a bad one you never forget it, and similarly, you remember the good ones. 3M has been my favourite so far.
- franze 3y agojust saying, the buggy sticky/fading/back-again header implementation makes this really hard to read. please make it sticky or even better just don't.
- autoexec 3y agoimages don't load with JS disabled, but the text is clear and there's no annoying header to worry about.
- dhosek 3y agoMan seeing some of those disk manufacturers names brings me back to when I used to order bulk purchases of 5.25" floppies from a catalog and sell them at a profit out of my high school locker. And then of course, there was the trick of using a hole punch to add a second write-enable hole to the left side of the disk so you could flip it over and use the back for an extra 140K of storage.
- TMWNN 3y ago>when I used to order bulk purchases of 5.25" floppies from a catalog Imsai!
- dhosek 3y agoThat’s the one! Thanks for coming up with the name.
- b112 3y agoStuff like this makes me think, but with a different view looking back than when I lived through it. For example, the hole punch thing. 10 year old me would have never pondered this, but... was there someone at Stedmans' HQ, wondering why there was an 18% uptick in hole-punch sales? Some old, crusty and cantankerous beatnik squirreled away, staring at sales charts and projections, perplexed as to why? How many households had no hole-punch, but did once the floppy appeared in home?
- oarsinsync 3y agoA lot of houses used paper records and folders to store them in. The folders would often use ring binds that required the papers to be hole punched.
- b112 3y agoSure, agree completely, although I wonder why you believe I may not know that? Yet lots of houses bought pre-punched paper, or just didn't use ring binders. The 18% is just a throw out number, and the concept is a joke, yet... I'm sure there was some increase in hole punch purchases. Because... I bought one as a kid, after getting tired of cutting a ragged hole with scissors.
- nodesocket 3y agoAnd the rise and fall of Iomega 100mb zip drives. As a kid in high school I coveted those so dearly.
- classichasclass 3y agoI was always a Memorex connoisseur myself in the 5.25" era, with the classic brown ruled sleeves.
- reporterexchang 3y agoSearch by floppy disk over time. Google trends. About as expected... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=420&date=all&geo=US&hl=en&q=Floppy+disk&sni=3 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=420&dat...
- _carbyau_ 3y agoWhat is the spike in November 2020 about? Is there a way to "see what they saw"? Maybe the results of then could tell me why people cared about a 20 year old media format.
- martinpw 3y agoQuick search shows that there was was quest in Call of Duty that involved decrypting a floppy disk, and there is a walkthrough here from ... November 2020 https://www.ign.com/wikis/call-of-duty-black-ops-cold-war/How_to_Decrypt_the_Floppy_Disk_for_Operation_Chaos https://www.ign.com/wikis/call-of-duty-black-ops-cold-war/Ho...
- xyst 3y ago3M is a company that does not deserve any praise. The handling of contaminated water supplies with PFAS has forever ruined many lives.
- xbar 3y agoI am sorry to see you being downvoted. I feel completely betrayed by 3M. All of the fondness I had for the brand from floppy disks to early post-it notes, painter's tape, and scotch taping gifts with my mom.... all of them are tained with the horror of 3M's complete disregard for everything and everyone for all time.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoThere were definitely a few bad apples, but much of the blame extends to the military. Events like this were probably inevitable for those that are students of the history of technology development.
- juitpykyk 3y agoArticle says 3M exited floppies because it was retail oriented very low margin business. But how is Scotch Tape not that too?
- returnzero 3y agoI imagine the difference is that Scotch tape is much better aligned with the R&D that goes into their other products in the adhesives and films categories compared to magnetic tape. If they didn't intend to go further into developing products in the computing space then selling it while it still had value was probably a wise call.
- system2 3y agoShipping businesses grew and still growing. I think they are making so much money from it despite its margin.
- Ekaros 3y agoScale and complexity. Floppies were dying. And it might be that so was some equipment for making them. Tape is steady state demand with likely small but clear margin and demand also in future. So quite different future and production scenario.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 0x0000000 3y ago> If you ask the average person what the company 3M does, odds are if they have a few gray hairs hanging out on their scalp, they might say that the company makes floppy disks. That's crazy, I wouldn't think anyone would first and foremost associate 3M with floppies instead of adhesives, even those with a few grays like myself. They make post-its for chrissake, and we're gonna pretend they're most known for floppies?
- LeoPanthera 3y agoI would have said adhesive tape. And then maybe magnetic tape. Followed shortly by "industrial chemicals".
- esafak 3y agoI have no idea why they shoehorned 3M into the article. Floppies rose and fell independently of 3M.
- OJFord 3y agoIf I picture a floppy it definitely has a 3M logo either on the paper label or stamped into the plastic. But I'm with the sibling commenter to you who says 'adhesive tape' as the first thing '3M' brings to mind. People talk about '3M-backed X' to mean basically 'self-adhesive X' (and maybe express a preference for adhesive brand, but it's common enough the knock-offs use it as an SEO keyword too).
- skissane 3y ago> If I picture a floppy it definitely has a 3M logo either on the paper label or stamped into the plastic. I do remember seeing 3M floppies, but in my memory Verbatim were more common. And, in the 5.25 inch era, Nashua
- creatonez 3y ago3M is only interesting in retrospect. They were one of the first manufacturers to get out of the floppy business, but they also had some of the highest quality disks. So as soon as floppies started dying, the durability and quality fell off a cliff. But if you come across a 3M disk in the modern era (floppies are still used by textile equipment), it might actually store your data without breaking.
- jsz0 3y agoI'm not sure I ever actually bought a box of blank floppy disks. Instead I would call up software companies and ask for free demos instead. I did it so often the postal service warned may parents they would stop delivering mail to the house.
- russellpekala 3y agoI heard that this business unit turned into 3Ms healthcare data analytics business partially because healthcare customers kept buying floppy disks after everyone else stopped. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/health-information-systems-us/drive-value-based-care/payers/analytics-performance-management/ https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/health-information-systems-us/dr...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- szundi 3y agoAt the late stage Sony floppies were better quality and they had better data retention. No bad sectors ever.
- neglesaks 3y agoBack in those days, getting your hands on a foil-wrapped 10-pack of 3M (DS) HD floppy disks was the true feeling of happiness... :D Heck, even five would be pretty nice.
- fsiefken 3y agoo wow, i totally forgot about the feeling, yes that was nice.
- throwaway71271 3y agoI bought a usb floppy drive, and some old 1.44 floppies, and I thought its just nostalgia, but tbh its just super cool. I think with esp32s3 and floppies we can make some cool computer kits :) there are also 5" spi displays 800x480 that are pretty fast There is also a floppy disk music demoscene, and of course the retro computing scene, but I think 'constrained' programming is one of the best ways to learn and it is underused in pedagogy and androgogy. The floppy disk will raise again. PS: I am working on adding UFI support, it is using CBI to the esp32 mass storage which support only BOT, but its going quite slowly because I am trying to use cheap 4$ logic analyzer to debug and its losing samples :(
- bArray 3y ago> I think with esp32s3 and floppies we can make some cool computer kits :) there are also 5" spi displays 800x480 that are pretty fast Not sure there is much interest from younger people these days outside of a small niche. Checkout any kind of OS/computer architecture classes on a University campus. Could be super cool to build a 'mobile phone' that runs on floppy disks. > PS: I am working on adding UFI support, it is using CBI to the esp32 mass storage which support only BOT, but its going quite slowly because I am trying to use cheap 4$ logic analyzer to debug and its losing samples :( Have you documented this somewhere?
- throwaway71271 3y ago> Could be super cool to build a 'mobile phone' that runs on floppy disks. that would be beyond cool! > Have you documented this somewhere? not yet, sending the proper commands the endpoints always go stale so I am trying to debug the usb packets send from my pc vs the esp32, but usbpcap is not enough because the thing I send is the same (as far as I can see) as linux/windows, so I am trying to debug it on the wire
- rob74 3y ago> But you might be wondering, how did 3M make the leap from reel-to-reel tape to floppies? It feels like just as strange a leap as a masking tape company developing reel-to-reel audio tape. Er... no, it doesn't? If you have experience with one kind of magnetic media, it sounds pretty reasonable that you could leverage that experience to make other kinds of magnetic media too. Actually, "fellow thick-Helvetica enthusiast" BASF did exactly the same: they were very big players in the reel-to-reel tape market too. And, while 3M spun out its magnetic media business as Imation, BASF did the same with EMTEC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMTEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMTEC)
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago(2023) Discussion on the original Tedium post then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38534227 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38534227
- jhallenworld 3y agoAlbums released on floppy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRm2_Uy_7bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRm2_Uy_7bk Sony invented the 3.5" floppy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsyVgTGaRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsyVgTGaRk I recently went through my large box of old 3.5" disks and discovered that most of them are failing. The older 5 1/4" disks seem better, maybe because the density is lower.
- mayormcmatt 3y agoThe folks at CD Projekt Red certainly haven't forgotten about them for their "very special" edition of CP 2077: https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/50098/introducing-a-limited-floppy-edition-of-cyberpunk-2077 https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/50098/introducing-a-limite...
- jaclaz 3y agoThe best (IMHO) ode/obituary for floppy disks: A:las poor floppy, I knew you well.
- KerrAvon 3y agoWhat a strange article. The premise seems to be that 3M floppies were better formulated than others, but the author never actually discusses their quality directly, or anything close. 3M floppies were pretty rare in my experience.
- zzbn00 3y ago12 bits/word 60 words/minute 60 minutes/hour 8 hours/day 5 days/week 4 weeks/month => 7 Megabits => 864kBytes . Fits onto a floppy. What we could express as words, we could fit onto floppies.