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Google lays off Bay Area workers, closes Mtn View child care center
- paulpauper 3y agoIt's weird how impersonal layoffs are. you are escorted out of office in some cases, and keys and other stuff stop working. You have to turn everything in, and possessions shipped to you at later date.
- nine_zeros 3y ago[flagged]
- dylan604 3y agoI've had to do the same to family members, so yeah, it tracks.
- contingencies 3y agoCongrats on your achievement. But tell me, how did you break "no free day care" to your spouse/child?
- mitthrowaway2 3y agoYou no-fault-dismissed your family members when you didn't need them anymore?
- dylan604 3y agoLet's not be silly. There was fault. On both sides. A judge agreed
- switchbak 3y agoWhile I really appreciate your effort, son, your performance at the recital just isn't up to our standards here, so we're sorry to say we'll have to let you go. Can we grab a quick moment for an exit interview before we hand you off to a social worker? Work is absolutely not a family.
- fifteen1506 3y ago[flagged]
- einpoklum 3y agoThis is only possible because of the extreme anti-worker legal situation in the US. In many many (most?) countries doing this is illegal and will land you a court decision against your breach of the employee's rights (in addition to you owing that employee severance + lack-of-advanced-notice fine, by law and before any legal procedure).
- hot_gril 3y agoTechnically they're still "employed" a bit longer but prevented from going into offices or doing anything else in their final 2 weeks or whatever it is. And they get severance after.
- bb611 3y agoBecause these employees are in California, Google is required to give 60 days notice of termination. Typically in big tech layoffs this is done as paid garden leave.
- vjulian 3y agoGiven apparent US gun violence, immediate escorting off the premises seems wise. Why let potentially angry ex-employees linger?
- einpoklum 3y agoThe question is actually: Why let our employers being able to treat us like a disposable tissue?
- hot_gril 3y agoI get to treat the employer like a disposable tissue too. They aren't forced to employ me, but I'm not forced to work for them.
- heavyset_go 3y agoMost people who need to work for health insurance, shelter, food, etc have to treat their employers as if they're golden tissues. If they tear them, their life turns upside down, often for the worst.
- dilyevsky 3y agoI've been laid off before and i would much prefer ripping the bandaid quickly than the usual hr dog and pony show they like to put up.
- yreg 3y agoThis is mostly a US thing and I can't really fathom it. In central Europe you get a notice and you are usually expected to continue to work during the notice period. Even at banks, etc. From what I hear, it sounds like in US you are immediately considered an enemy spy or saboteur and need to be escorted by security. I can't imagine how chaotic it must be to take over work from someone who was fired like that.
- Almondsetat 3y agoDo you think that maybe those security procedures exist because big companies have been bit once too many times?
- yreg 3y agoNo I don't, because the procedures make very little sense to me. I'm not going to suddenly turn into a criminal when a company terminates my contract. If I'm not trustworthy after they fire me, then I couldn't have been trustworthy before either imo. Afterall, as I said we don't have those procedures around here and it's no problem. We would find them weird (culturally).
- dylan604 3y agoYou'd be amazed at the number of people that do not take measures in anticipation of this day ever happening. If you give someone with access to critical information no notice about their dismissal, they might not have actually backed up their emails, contacts, or any other work product. If you are the leadership and don't take this action and that "rare" small number of people that might do something untoward does do something, then you are left holding the bag. So, as they say, better safe than sorry. I've even be present when actual criminal activity has been committed, but no charges have been brought but the company is still offered the use of actual police during the dismissal/escorting off premise without making an arrest. So, I guess I'm happy for you that you've never had to experience the darker side of things, but, it's part and parcel around here now of the process.
- Exoristos 3y agoThe sense that you are a valuable part of a team is an intentional illusion, meant to safeguard your productivity and sanity. The "impersonality" of layoffs is the reality of your relationship with the company all along.
- riku_iki 3y ago> It's weird how impersonal layoffs are. you are escorted out of office I think usual way is to send you email at night: you don't go to the office tomorrow.
- simonw 3y agoWow the child care thing must really hurt. I could absolutely imagine people making career decisions - not to mention decisions about where to live - based on the reasonable assumption that the child care provided by Google wasn't going to be arbitrarily turned off. I can't imagine part of the Google hiring process was a note that said "do remember that we might change our mind about providing child care, so don't make any crucial decisions based on the ongoing existence of that benefit".
- jeffbee 3y agoThere's no way anyone made a decision based on that because the waiting list for admission was infinitely long and many parents I knew there were going backwards in the priority queue.
- simonw 3y agoMaybe employees who had made it through that waiting list ignored potential employment opportunities elsewhere because they didn't want to lose that benefit.
- danielrhodes 3y ago"After some reflection, we just don't see how this could be a billion dollar business"
- andrewstuart2 3y agoHonestly it seems a lot more like a soft layoff for more senior staff who may have kids due to the stage of life they're in, and the path they've chosen.
- hadlock 3y agoClosing the day care is a big deal. I don't know how they justified that; most company daycares cost as much, if not more than regular daycares and are run either at break-even, or at a very small profit. And it's a huge, huge perk. Taking your kids with you to work allows you to not make a second trip every morning and every evening to go to their daycare (which is never exactly on the way) it's good for morale, it's GREAT for work/life balance, it's good for the environment, and the kids spend more time with their parents. PG&E closed their daycare at 77 beale (Downtown SF) when they moved their headquarters to the ghost-town building in Oakland and very explicitly announced they had no plans to re-open a daycare. If you're reading this and in a position where you can affect change, definitely consider a daycare on site, it's a very effective way to dramatically increase retention of senior employees.
- google234123 3y agoIt was impossible to get a spot so not a huge deal imo
- Noughmad 3y agoAh yes, it was too crowded so nobody went there anymore.
- fullshark 3y agoDaycares don’t scale like other perks. It’s possibly hugely impactful but for very few employees.
- clutchdude 3y agoYogism strikes again!
- elaus 3y agoThere was too much demand, so it's no problem that it's closed now? Can't really follow that logic to be honest.
- vicnov 3y agoIt doesn't make sense to me. Is google turning into a pure cash cow with no ambition? You have this resource, developers, that you invest a lot into; why would you get rid of your core asset? Is there no NPV-positive way to allocate this asset? Is there 0 ambition to pursue new projects? If it were any other team I would have understood. but devs? makes no sense.
- chpatrick 3y agoIt turned into one about ten years ago.
- wharvle 3y agoSlide started when they acquired DoubleClick and the two cultures blurred together (or worse, at the higher levels of the company...) and they were beyond saving when they fully committed to ads-inline-with-search-results rather than just "experimenting" with it.
- vmfunction 3y agoThis is type of stuff make me not like big corp, the culture and company value eventually corrupts. And if you are like Apple, after the charismatic founder dies, pretty much it goes to shit as well.
- tracerbulletx 3y agoWhat makes you think that's happened to Apple yet. Their product ecosystem still feels cohesively designed to me, and the new Macbooks have been a fantastic bit of category leading work.
- JeffSnazz 3y agoI can't name a single software feature that they've come out with in the last few years—that's certainly a notable change from their old release cycle.
- olah_1 3y agoMy team got laid off in fall 2023. I knew it would be a long road ahead, but it still feels like we’re just in the beginning of the tech layoffs. Extremely depressing. Hoping I can ride this out.
- Aeolun 3y agoIf they’re closing daycare centers they (Google) must be really far in the red, right? What the hell? Remind me to never work for Google.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://linktr.ee/awu_cwa https://linktr.ee/awu_cwa ("Alphabet Workers Union-CWA") https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/join https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/join
- elyrly 3y agoThe child care was lottery based and from my understanding still cost money for Googlers (Xoogler from 21'-23')
- dekhn 3y agoOh. Both my kids went there. I had constant disagreements with the staff- it was really far too expensive, and some of the teachers were just lazy, others were overqualified.
- thedougd 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- KingLancelot 3y ago[dead]
- Animats 3y agoGoogle already cut back on the free food and the yoga classes.
- paxys 3y agoForce employees to come work onsite while simultaneously closing onsite childcare facilities... Makes perfect sense.
- PLenz 3y agoOn site daycare is just about the ONLY perk I care about
- iTradeWarez 3y agoGee I wonder why the birthrate is down
- beanjuiceII 3y agobecause the .1%ers of tech workers no longer get child day care for free?
- toomuchtodo 3y agoBecause the developed world is actively hostile towards parents (caveat a few outliers). This is just an additional data point.
- drstewart 3y agoHow is the developing world not hostile by comparison, pray tell?
- toomuchtodo 3y agoIt’s worse.
- beanjuiceII 3y agoweird my family has 6 children and we've never had many issues, we also don't have company provided daycare or parents that come to act as a daycare. What is exactly the problem? why is it always the "developed world" that is responsible for peoples choices?
- toomuchtodo 3y agoI think having 6 children is weird, but to each their own.
- beanjuiceII 3y agowhats weird about it?
- manlobster 3y agoI worked at Google when the daycare was introduced. At the time, it was so expensive that very few employees could afford to use it. Was that still the case recently?
- xster 3y agoMy kid's at the daycare (and won't be soon). The cost is more or less average.
- kajecounterhack 3y agoMine is too. But average!? It's 40% more expensive than Kindercare Mountain View, for example. It's definitely on the pricey side.
- mertd 3y agoIt is on the higher end of the price range for similar daycares in the area.
- 23B1 3y agoEnshittification rolls downhill.
- LaMarseillaise 3y agoI knew someone who worked at the child care center. Things got really bad after the pandemic. I heard that people were promoted for very sketchy reasons. The result was a bureaucracy-heavy mess of incompetence and political infighting. It apparently was unbearable, and it is not a surprise to me that this happened. All the corner-cutting and nickel-and-diming made it clear that the higher-ups were trying to kill this perk. It is kind of sad, since this single perk was specifically called out when Google used to get the ‘Best Place to Work’ awards.
- lgkk 3y agoMost of my friends who have kids complain that they spend like 3-4k per kid per month only to have the carer not even pay attention to their kid or worse totally ignore them or make them feel bad. That sounds horrible. What do you guys look for in a day care? Just curious as I don't have kids.
- bombcar 3y agoAt $4k per kid you’re looking at $48k a year, could probably hire a nanny at that point if you have two or split with another family.
- kajecounterhack 3y agoIf you only have one, $4k/mo is still cheaper than a nanny in MTV especially if you don't have an extra bedroom to subsidize with room/board.
- nostrademons 3y agoGoing rates for a nanny are around $25/hour, which comes to $50K/year for a standard 2000-hour work-year. And yes, nanny-shares are considered a "budget" option in the Bay Area, for when you can't afford a good preschool or can't get off the waitlist. Unfortunately the quality tends to be more variable...I've heard some horror stories about irresponsible nannies. There isn't a vetting & licensing process the way that there is for institutional childcare.
- adrianmonk 3y agoThe childcare thing seems like it was already known. From a December 2023 article (https://9to5google.com/2023/12/07/google-day-care-centers/ https://9to5google.com/2023/12/07/google-day-care-centers/): > For the past several years, four Google Children’s Centers have operated in the San Francisco Bay Area. These Google-run day-care centers will be closing next year, but the company is expanding its parental benefits so that more employees, especially those around the world, can partake. > At the moment, 300 parents in the Bay Area use this particular benefit, which was introduced in 2008 when Google had 20,000 employees. Annual entry is determined by a lottery system and those selected pay a tuition with only some subsidy from the company. This school year, which ends August 2024, will be the last one for these Google facilities. > The company is helping those existing families find new day-care centers, while those working at the four Google Children’s Centers will receive an exit package that includes outplacement services.
- JeffSnazz 3y agoSerious question, why don't Googlers unionize? They bring in far, far, far more revenue than they cost in salary. You'd be foolish not to leverage this collectively....
- galdosdi 3y agoThey did. If you still work at Google, join https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/ https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/
- ryandrake 3y agoMy guess is it's the same reason so many HN people are against unions: Everyone imagines they are the One Special Talented "Captain Of Industry"-Like Skilled Negotiator Person who would not benefit from the union and/or make less money in a union. "Unions are fine for those lower-level workers, the little people who aren't in as high demand as I am, and who can't negotiate like I can. I'd surely be worse off with one!" -- and when everyone thinks this about themselves, the whole lot of them fails to unionize.
- hot_gril 3y agoYep that's me
- bsdpufferfish 3y agoYes and it's true. Anyone who has ever dedicated themselves to their work for a year or so will be in that category.
- hot_gril 3y agoOr someone with no job yet but good qualifications for one (in college etc).
- fulladder 3y agoFor tech (and finance) there are a great many people who make an extreme comp demand and the company just shrugs and says "ok, we'll pay it." Before you put your fate in the hands of some union boss, you should consider trying it for yourself.
- jonathankoren 3y agoI'm honestly surprised the day care was still around. I thought Anne Wojcicki gutted it as soon as she had no need for it back in 2008 or so.
- esturk 3y agoWasn’t it around this time last year that Google had their big layoff? I suppose the rumor that Google implemented stack ranking might be true after all.
- japanman185 3y ago[dead]
- AzzyHN 3y agoFeels like the end of an era
- rvz 3y agoIf this was Twitter / X that did this move, there would be high levels of extreme outrage and schadenfreude. Google doesn't care. They are simply cargo-culting the Meta layoffs strategy and the child care center was just a zero interest rate addition to Google. A cost to the company so great that it was one of the first to end alongside with the expensive workers that had to go as well.
- zac23or 3y agoGoogle needs some people to resign in addition to those who were fired. Closing the daycare will work perfectly. That's how psychopaths think. Do not fool yourself. Google has been the enemy of innovation for some time, losing good developers is nothing for them.
- maerF0x0 3y agoReported on Layofs.fyi - https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/11/24034124/google-layoffs-engineering-assistant-hardware https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/11/24034124/google-layoffs-e... https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/11/24034124/google-layoffs-engineering-assistant-hardware https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/11/24034124/google-layoffs-e... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38959026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38959026
- rmk 3y agoWhy did they lay off people in core engineering? Is it performance management in the guise of a layoff?
- HDThoreaun 3y agoThey had more people than they needed?
- cdme 3y agoWe used the childcare at Patagonia when I was there prior to COVID. I believe it was run at a loss, the staff was excellent, student/teacher ratio was really great and there was an emphasis on bilingual instruction. It was affordable — Google could do the same if they cared. I imagine they don't.
- ChatGTP 3y agoPatagonia and Google seem like, very very different companies with very different motives to me. Did you enjoy working there?
- cdme 3y agoI really did — the culture is very much true to the public perception, as are the founders. Losing access to the campus during COVID was heartbreaking though. I moved on to a more technologically-focused role with higher compensation but I look back on the time fondly.
- ChatGTP 3y agoNice, I love their products and I'm super glad to here the culture is real. I have a copy of "Let my people go surfing", I still haven't go through it. Thanks for the response.
- hintymad 3y agoWow! The golden 10 years (or the roaring 10s?) clearly are coming to the end. Welcome to the rusting 20s.
- 71a54xd 3y agoFeels like I should maybe just do something else. The startup I cofounded with decent funding is starting to flounder and big tech seems to have zero jobs. Not to mention the market has been with a new wave of thousands of ex-faang engineers far smarter than me. Going to college for CS seems like a waste now, but at least I have savings to burn. Starting to lose sight of the point of doing this anymore...
- danielk1994 3y ago[dead]
- EnigmaFlare 3y agoGood. Wealthy parents in particular shouldn't use daycare (much) because it's harmful to their childrens' later life. They can afford to take a few years off work. It's sad how so many people see daycare as a perfectly valid way to avoid the inconvenience of raising a child. Some parents just shove their kid into daycare too young when they're not emotionally ready. Here are replicated studies from Canada showing that negative effects like criminality and not pursuing higher education persist to at least the end of teenage years. https://ifstudies.org/blog/measuring-the-long-term-effects-of-early-extensive-day-care https://ifstudies.org/blog/measuring-the-long-term-effects-o...
- tzury 3y agoGoogle should cut 75% of its headcounts and restart over. Simply that, same for Meta and other Giant software companies. But let's focus on Google. The main products we choose to use are: 0. Search 1. Chrome 2. Gmail/Workspace 3. Android 4. YouTube 5. Google Cloud The one we are "forced" to consume is Ads. How much innovation have you experienced in the last 5 years across these products, and when you sum it all, and there was some indeed, does it justify that many *new* employees? I think that the answer is no. BIG NO. Meaning, way too many people are just passing their time, "working on something interesting that might take off one day".
- oblib 3y agoI quit my job not long after becoming a single parent when my daughter was 10 months old. That was back in the mid 1980s. The years I spent with my daughter were amazing. I learned how to be a "mom", and it was a very enlightening experience. It changed me. She became the most important thing in my life. I was living in Los Angeles and realized I did not want to raise my daughter there so I started researching places I would want to raise her. I left LA just a couple years later. Fair to say I've lived a lower middle class life financially, but also fair to say a much better quality of life than most living in LA, and that includes Beverley Hills and Malibu. These are trade offs we all have to consider, but I do not regret getting out of the "Big City". I'd have probably spent 3 of the past 30 years sitting in gridlock traffic. It's worth doing the math on that.
- nojvek 3y agoI have a lot of respect for single moms. It’s hard enough to raise a kid with two parents, let alone one.
- nojvek 3y agoWe all talk about AI as some magical thing that will take care of us, bring more love and peace. Nah, it’s going to accelerate capitalism - concentration of wealth and power. As soon as companies can keep their fat revenues and profits with fewer staff, they will choose that. I’m willing to bet Google will never grow to 2X the staff they have but they will 2X the revenue with marginal increases to average compensation.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- autotune 3y agoThey're closing the main office?