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I'm glad the machine was restored to usable condition, I've had a laptop stolen from me in the past, it was returned in an evidence bag, in about 1000 pieces, w

I'm glad the machine was restored to usable condition, I've had a laptop stolen from me in the past, it was returned in an evidence bag, in about 1000 pieces, which was very frustrating to get an excited call a year after it'd happened telling me the police had recovered it, only to be greeted with, well, an unusable husk. That said, yours is a completely artificial problem imposed upon you by the company you made a purchase from. You don't have the private keys to your own device, which means ultimately, your usage of that device is conditional on being in the good graces of a group of very wealthy, indifferent, strangers. That, in, and of itself, is the issue at hand here, and while you've found yourself a favorable outcome, you're likely an exception to the rule.

userbinator 3y ago
[flagged]
Zambyte 3y ago
> You don't have the private keys to your own device This here is the misunderstanding. It's simply not possible for you to own Apple's computers.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah laptops are going the same way as content "No you're not buying a book/movie, just a license to use it". It's a bit depressing.
judge2020 3y ago
What is the better solution that retains the anti-theft capabilities of the device? The value of stolen (activation-locked) iPhones and Macs is largely only on in overseas markets where they can strip the device down to usable parts - or, if you're lucky, you'll get threatening text messages telling you to remove the device from your icloud[0, 1] so they can sell it as a fully working phone. The inability for a thief to just flash the device with fresh firmware and use it as if it were new is a key selling point of the device and might justify the higher price tag to some buyers. 0: https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/13yn1o0/phone_stolen_at_coachella_been_getting_tons_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/13yn1o0/phone_st... 1: https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/16fcd4c/recently_lost_phone_and_got_this_weird_message/ https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/16fcd4c/recently...
- torstenvl 3y ago
  I fail to see how Apple's corporate policy robbing you of your device is somehow an anti-theft capability. If you are permanently deprived of your rightful property, you are a victim of theft. Whether it's via EULA and private keys, or via street thug with a wrench, I'm not sure it makes any realistic difference.
  - heinternets 3y ago
    How would you provide this type of locking system without giving users access to their own private keys, then having a much worse problem where dozens of users lose their private keys and forever brick their device?
    - teraflop 3y ago
      A system where users can recover their devices if they successfully hold onto their private keys is much better than a system where they can't recover their devices at all without Apple's reluctant help.
      - chongli 3y ago
        Maybe for power users, sure. But for regular people (Apple’s biggest market) it’s not an issue: they just register their devices and don’t have to worry about it.
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
        Isn’t the issue in this case that the use didn’t enable “find my mac” in the first place, the thief was able to tie the device to their account and then brick it? I assume he would’ve been able to recover it if he had “held on to his private key” (having the device be linked to his account being the current equivalent)?
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      Keep the private key with Apple. But also... Sell an HSM (free when you buy a Mac > $2000? discounted in conjunction with AppleCare?) that will remove activation lock on the Mac it's purchased with.
smashed 3y ago
This. Any other reply is going to be apologetic rambling.
hackerfooze 3y ago
One of many issues solved by blockchain technologies. You can completely cut out the middleman and get access to your data.
- davely 3y ago
  How does blockchain solve this problem? You still have to rely on a middleman (the blockchain), which I believe isn’t infallible either (human input error, adversarial attacks, phishing, social engineering, network availability, etc)
  - angoragoats 3y ago
    Looking at the grandparent’s post history, I’m pretty sure they’re either a parody account or a troll.
- microtherion 3y ago
  Yes, of course! Blockchain COMPLETELY solves the problem of losing your keys or having them stolen https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hard-drive-lost-bitcoin-landfill/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hard-drive-lost-bitcoin-landfil...
- jtriangle 3y ago
  I mean, you could use blockchain for this and create a viable solution. I don't think that's the only solution, or even the best solution in this case, but, worth considering the idea at least.
tinus_hn 3y ago
The person is praising Activation Lock and criticizing the fact you can skip setting it up. Yet you want to turn it into a claim Activation Lock is a bad thing. Nothing more than the typical ‘hurr durr Apple bad’ commenting common on this site. Dull, pointless, not interesting.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  I like apple products just fine to be honest, you've really missed the mark here. The issue is, as stated, you do not own the keys to the device you've purchased. That's a huge problem, and as OP's story shows, can result in the loss of access to your device. I think apple is currently doing the best job out of everyone as far as hardware security is concerned. That does not mean their implementation is anything close to perfect, it's more that everyone else is doing a poor job, or forgoing any attempt at it in the first place.
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    No, you’re missing the mark. If there is to be any kind of theft protection it is going to be a protection of the device from a user, either the proper owner or a thief. There is no way for the device to make the distinction if the owner does not register himself as the owner and the thief does. Then the thief is the owner and the device will protect itself from the real owner. There is just no way around it. That is a mistake made by the person writing the blog, they admit it and they say Apple should have made it more obvious which is a reasonable request. Not Apple should have not made the protection, that is an unreasonable request. You might have philosophical problems with this kind of protection, fine, then don’t buy the devices because they have it, they are advertised to have it and you can’t get them without it. Don’t buy a device that you know doesn’t do what you want and then go whining on the internet that it doesn’t do what you want. That’s a you problem.
    - jtriangle 3y ago
      Have you considered, for a moment, that the thief ever being able to register the device as their own is the entirety of the problem? The owner of the device doesn't own the keys to it, apple does. That's how the OP lost access in the first place. I will admit that, this situation was preventable, had apple required the "find my device" feature to be active upon setup. The fact is however, they do not. You can't have it both ways, if you're going to have a walled garden, then wall off the garden, no half measures, you're responsible for everything, including this mishap.
thefz 3y ago
> That said, yours is a completely artificial problem imposed upon you by the company you made a purchase from. Nobody owns even their hardware anymore.
khazhoux 3y ago
> your usage of that device is conditional on being in the good graces of a group of very wealthy, indifferent, strangers. Was it necessary to say “wealthy”? That doesn’t seem relevant, but rather incidental.
- karamanolev 3y ago
  Their wealth is a core reason for their indifference, so I'd argue yes, it was necessary.
caeril 3y ago
> problem imposed upon you by the company No, this is an entirely self-inflicted problem by the user. It's 2023. Everybody knows about the telemetry, the unserviceable hardware, the "fuck you" style bug reporting and customer service, and of course the fact that you no longer own your own machine. Anybody buying Apple (and to a large extend Microsoft) at this point, knowing they have no intention of letting you have access to your own device, also knowing that there are superior open-source options, deserves precisely what they get.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  >knowing that there are superior open-source options Most do not know however, nor do they desire to know, and likely, they will never know. If you want to make something actually better for someone who's not you, blaming them for not making it better is hardly a solution. Also stands to reason that, hackernews is popular with people in the industry, maybe not the actual decision makers, but, certainly people with more pull than most. It's important to express how things ought to be for that reason alone.

userbinator 3y ago

[flagged]

Zambyte 3y ago

> You don't have the private keys to your own device This here is the misunderstanding. It's simply not possible for you to own Apple's computers.

wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah laptops are going the same way as content "No you're not buying a book/movie, just a license to use it". It's a bit depressing.

judge2020 3y ago

What is the better solution that retains the anti-theft capabilities of the device? The value of stolen (activation-locked) iPhones and Macs is largely only on in overseas markets where they can strip the device down to usable parts - or, if you're lucky, you'll get threatening text messages telling you to remove the device from your icloud[0, 1] so they can sell it as a fully working phone. The inability for a thief to just flash the device with fresh firmware and use it as if it were new is a key selling point of the device and might justify the higher price tag to some buyers. 0: https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/13yn1o0/phone_stolen_at_coachella_been_getting_tons_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/13yn1o0/phone_st... 1: https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/16fcd4c/recently_lost_phone_and_got_this_weird_message/ https://old.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/16fcd4c/recently...

torstenvl 3y ago
I fail to see how Apple's corporate policy robbing you of your device is somehow an anti-theft capability. If you are permanently deprived of your rightful property, you are a victim of theft. Whether it's via EULA and private keys, or via street thug with a wrench, I'm not sure it makes any realistic difference.
- heinternets 3y ago
  How would you provide this type of locking system without giving users access to their own private keys, then having a much worse problem where dozens of users lose their private keys and forever brick their device?
  - teraflop 3y ago
    A system where users can recover their devices if they successfully hold onto their private keys is much better than a system where they can't recover their devices at all without Apple's reluctant help.
    - chongli 3y ago
      Maybe for power users, sure. But for regular people (Apple’s biggest market) it’s not an issue: they just register their devices and don’t have to worry about it.
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      Isn’t the issue in this case that the use didn’t enable “find my mac” in the first place, the thief was able to tie the device to their account and then brick it? I assume he would’ve been able to recover it if he had “held on to his private key” (having the device be linked to his account being the current equivalent)?
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    Keep the private key with Apple. But also... Sell an HSM (free when you buy a Mac > $2000? discounted in conjunction with AppleCare?) that will remove activation lock on the Mac it's purchased with.

smashed 3y ago

This. Any other reply is going to be apologetic rambling.

hackerfooze 3y ago

One of many issues solved by blockchain technologies. You can completely cut out the middleman and get access to your data.

davely 3y ago
How does blockchain solve this problem? You still have to rely on a middleman (the blockchain), which I believe isn’t infallible either (human input error, adversarial attacks, phishing, social engineering, network availability, etc)
- angoragoats 3y ago
  Looking at the grandparent’s post history, I’m pretty sure they’re either a parody account or a troll.
microtherion 3y ago
Yes, of course! Blockchain COMPLETELY solves the problem of losing your keys or having them stolen https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hard-drive-lost-bitcoin-landfill/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hard-drive-lost-bitcoin-landfil...
jtriangle 3y ago
I mean, you could use blockchain for this and create a viable solution. I don't think that's the only solution, or even the best solution in this case, but, worth considering the idea at least.

tinus_hn 3y ago

The person is praising Activation Lock and criticizing the fact you can skip setting it up. Yet you want to turn it into a claim Activation Lock is a bad thing. Nothing more than the typical ‘hurr durr Apple bad’ commenting common on this site. Dull, pointless, not interesting.

jtriangle 3y ago
I like apple products just fine to be honest, you've really missed the mark here. The issue is, as stated, you do not own the keys to the device you've purchased. That's a huge problem, and as OP's story shows, can result in the loss of access to your device. I think apple is currently doing the best job out of everyone as far as hardware security is concerned. That does not mean their implementation is anything close to perfect, it's more that everyone else is doing a poor job, or forgoing any attempt at it in the first place.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  No, you’re missing the mark. If there is to be any kind of theft protection it is going to be a protection of the device from a user, either the proper owner or a thief. There is no way for the device to make the distinction if the owner does not register himself as the owner and the thief does. Then the thief is the owner and the device will protect itself from the real owner. There is just no way around it. That is a mistake made by the person writing the blog, they admit it and they say Apple should have made it more obvious which is a reasonable request. Not Apple should have not made the protection, that is an unreasonable request. You might have philosophical problems with this kind of protection, fine, then don’t buy the devices because they have it, they are advertised to have it and you can’t get them without it. Don’t buy a device that you know doesn’t do what you want and then go whining on the internet that it doesn’t do what you want. That’s a you problem.
  - jtriangle 3y ago
    Have you considered, for a moment, that the thief ever being able to register the device as their own is the entirety of the problem? The owner of the device doesn't own the keys to it, apple does. That's how the OP lost access in the first place. I will admit that, this situation was preventable, had apple required the "find my device" feature to be active upon setup. The fact is however, they do not. You can't have it both ways, if you're going to have a walled garden, then wall off the garden, no half measures, you're responsible for everything, including this mishap.

thefz 3y ago

> That said, yours is a completely artificial problem imposed upon you by the company you made a purchase from. Nobody owns even their hardware anymore.

khazhoux 3y ago

> your usage of that device is conditional on being in the good graces of a group of very wealthy, indifferent, strangers. Was it necessary to say “wealthy”? That doesn’t seem relevant, but rather incidental.

karamanolev 3y ago
Their wealth is a core reason for their indifference, so I'd argue yes, it was necessary.

caeril 3y ago

> problem imposed upon you by the company No, this is an entirely self-inflicted problem by the user. It's 2023. Everybody knows about the telemetry, the unserviceable hardware, the "fuck you" style bug reporting and customer service, and of course the fact that you no longer own your own machine. Anybody buying Apple (and to a large extend Microsoft) at this point, knowing they have no intention of letting you have access to your own device, also knowing that there are superior open-source options, deserves precisely what they get.

jtriangle 3y ago
>knowing that there are superior open-source options Most do not know however, nor do they desire to know, and likely, they will never know. If you want to make something actually better for someone who's not you, blaming them for not making it better is hardly a solution. Also stands to reason that, hackernews is popular with people in the industry, maybe not the actual decision makers, but, certainly people with more pull than most. It's important to express how things ought to be for that reason alone.