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I know US has lot of problems. However, I was just thinking this earlier that if you are a US Citizen, you already have so many advantages and opportunities tha

I know US has lot of problems. However, I was just thinking this earlier that if you are a US Citizen, you already have so many advantages and opportunities that many don't just because of that Passport. It is a great privilege especially as an Immigrant who became US citizens years ago. Not saying we are perfect obviously and just had a mass shooting earlier this AM (an unfortunate normal now) but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at. Especially if you are entrepreneurial and want to control how you live your life.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago
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ajaynv31 3y ago
Another immigrant chiming in - I love love love this country … my wife and I went from lower middle class in india to being in the 98th percentile of household income here .. and that has literally extended the lives of our loved ones back home .. my wife’s father was diagnosed with cardio vascular issues sometime ago but he decided to ignore them because he simply couldn’t afford the treatment. So when my wife and I started working in the USA , we made enough to get him treated for his issues at some of the best hospitals in India. Unsurprisingly , my wife’s love for USA knows no bounds - she’s one of the most patriotic immigrants you’ll ever meet
jankyxenon 3y ago
Agreed. As an immigrant myself - I think this gets lots on both sides of politics. Everyone talks about how the country is being ruined - when really its got the most advantages relative to the rest of the world.
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  People have to be kept into ruined places. That is certainly not the USA.
- pokstad 3y ago
  Really all you need to be the best is slightly better than everyone else.
- solardev 3y ago
  I think it depends on where you're comparing it to, and what you mean by the "rest of the world". Most of the rest of the world, by area or population, is very poor. But the US is not so special compared to the developed parts of Europe or East Asia or Canada, offering many of the same quality-of-life benefits with inferior social services and less participatory democracy.
  - hibikir 3y ago
    It's not quite so easy. I was born and raised in Spain, and live and work in the US. I have plenty of family still there, and travel there often enough. Does Spain have significant advantages in social services? Sure! Politics are a little better there too. I also vastly prefer Spain's urbanism, where even small towns are far more alive than the largest, densest US metros. But that's not all there is to it. I look at Spain's labor market and I see a country that is massively failing: Triple the unemployment rate. People out of college there, with good majors, that end up making far less than what they'd to at McDonalds in the US. Young adults can't afford housing either, but not because they have massive student debt, or high healthcare costs, or extreme housing prices, but because salaries are pretty sad. My brother does bioinformatics and has a Ph.D, and he'd make 4x what he does, today, doing the same job in the massive, booming metropolis that is... St Louis, Missouri. He lives with our retired mother, and they can barely make ends meet. Ultimately the higher growth advantage for the US is long lasting too: If your GDP growth is 0.5% higher than your neighbor, every single year, compound interest makes the difference very stark after a few decades... and a place like Spain already starts 30% poorer. So yes, I'd still argue that the US is ahead in many areas. The riskiest issue is the difficulty of reforms: Good luck reforming higher education or healthcare, even though other countries have working systems that are better. But even though all it takes to see the advantages of change is to look a little bit, progress seems very difficult, as there's just so much money and power on the line in keeping the status quo. But that might be the theme of the last couple of decades in all democracies: Unwillingness to reform in the face of dysfunction.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      As a US citizen, resident of 34 years, born and raised in the UK, I applaud your analysis. I'd also add that the US is a fabulous place to live if you make a solid income (say, 10-20% above median), but a pretty shitty place to live if you do not.
ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
I'm an immigrant myself, and I share this sentiment deeply as well. The best description which I ever heard, curiously enough, was on a really old episode of this American life. My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I think it was some small story of folks doing car audio competitions, where the point was to build the car with the loudest possible speaker. It was absurd, silly, and for a nerd, obviously enthralling. But at some point, I don't know if it is the narrator or someone in the story, but they say something to the effect of: "Everyone wants to be king of the hill, but there aren't enough hills to go around. The US is particularly great at creating more hills."
- zsmizzle 3y ago
  https://www.thisamericanlife.org/279/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/279/transcript
  - ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
    Ha, yeah, that's it. And, the quote in question, from David Segal, apparently: "Everyone wants to be the king of the hill. That's international. But the number of aspiring kings always dwarfs the number of available hills. So in this country, we build more hills. We're geniuses, in fact, at building more hills."
    - dempedempe 3y ago
      Which is great until those hills directly or indirectly affect people's health. Healthcare should not be a hill. Prisons should not be a hill. Politics should not be a hill.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        They affect health by creating enormous numbers of new fields for research and medicine, which after patent expiry is generified and manufactured cheaply for eternity.
finite_depth 3y ago
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CafeRacer 3y ago
I'd wish to be an immigrant to the US myself. Actively working on that now. I left states several years ago and regretted that decision ever since.
hotpotamus 3y ago
Speaking as a marginally disabled US citizen - it's a terrifying place where if I become too disabled to maintain employment, I'll lose my health insurance and then my access to healthcare. I guess it's good that a lot of people are making money though; it seems like the advertising business is going gangbusters too. I don't really consider that much of a national purpose, but it seems pretty hard to get everyone to agree on what that would be anyway. Edit: I'm rate-limited so to answer the apparent question everyone has: I live in Texas; it's not exactly friendly regarding Medicaid, but I don't know what it takes to qualify. https://www.keranews.org/health-wellness/2023-08-16/medicaid-plans-texas-expansion https://www.keranews.org/health-wellness/2023-08-16/medicaid...
- HideousKojima 3y ago
  If you're unemployed in the US then you'd most likely qualify for Medicaid though
  - ericfrazier 3y ago
    Depends on how you became unemployed. There is a long wait for Medicare if you "voluntarily" left your last position, even if you were forced out by cowards who wanted to keep their record clean and be able to say they never fire anyone.
- GoldenMonkey 3y ago
  I don't understand this... you would qualify for Medicaid. And it covers everything. No copays. Better than private health insurance.
  - throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
    https://millerestateandelderlaw.com/medicaid-out-of-pocket-costs-what-you-need-to-know/ https://millerestateandelderlaw.com/medicaid-out-of-pocket-c...
  - JoshTriplett 3y ago
    Medicaid coverage often has many requirements to qualify. Most notably, in many jurisdictions, there is an aggressive asset limit that requires you to liquidate almost everything you own, in order to get coverage when disabled or elderly. Those limits can apply retroactively up to five years, and can also prevent disabled people from being able to marry, because they would lose benefits due to a partner's assets.
gumballindie 3y ago
Would have loved to live in the US but dread the idea of H1B. I find it paradoxical that living in the most free country in the world required living in servitude for a good number of years. So the investor route is the only option it seems, one which i am still considering once capital becomes available.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Servitude implies no payment and little freedom, whereas with an H1B you have often high payment and complete freedom in all ways besides your actual employer. However, your employer is still bound by all of the employment laws of the nation and state, so real abuse is quite difficult to pull off.
  - KittenInABox 3y ago
    I don't think this is accurate. In the US, the onus of abuse reporting is on the employee. You can abuse your employee knowing that if they report you, you'll know they reported you, and can carefully torpedo their career knowing the employee has a very high bar to legally prove retaliation in court.
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      Can? Yes. Do? Not really, not often. Abuse is possible! It’s just not common, not in the sense of “servitude” being slavery or some other kind of abominable condition. Maybe you get the shit work, maybe you work more hours, but let’s not pretend these are the salt mines.
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    Words have meaning. When we use 'indentured servitude' in the modern context it means that it is not easy for a h1b worker to change employers as easily as someone with residency or citizenship. This is irrefutably true. When people cannot easily change jobs they deal with worse working conditions and worse pay. I have seen people work for the same employer for over a decade because they would have to restart their greencard process otherwise.
asow92 3y ago
The immigrants I know who become US citizens know this to be true. Many of natural born citizens I grew up with either aren't aware of this reality or are misinformed about it. Many natural born US citizens don't know what makes America so special. Yes there are problems in America, but how many of those problems are the result of an apathetic, nihilistic American population and not the foundational systems America is built on?
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  Many of the problems are the result of active attempts to dismantle or dilute the foundational systems America is built on.
- IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
  systems change over time, which i think is part of the issue. Trends matter. I think the US is today the best place in the world to be born in. I have far less certainty for americans 2 generations away
  - arrowsmith 3y ago
    I say the same of the UK. Maybe not the #1 best possible place to be born, but definitely in the top 10. I'm extremely lucky and privileged to have been born in the United Kingdom. Will that still be true for people born here fifty years from now? I have my doubts.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  Not surprising that immigrants aware of this fact come to the US and largely do better than the whining, natural-born citizens.
  - RankingMember 3y ago
    This is one of many reasons that my head hurts when I hear people espouse anti-immigrant sentiment, often on the basis of made-up nonsense about "them" being freeloaders/tax burdens.
throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
But it's not the case, it sounds good on paper but it has been a long time since the USA was a good place to lift yourself up by your bootstraps, there are so many things that hold you down on the way up that do not exist in other countries (really just the medical situation alone). That said I'm very glad you're happy and it has worked out well for you. However, my only regret was that I did not leave sooner, it did not work out for well for me on the balance, IE I did make money, but my quality of life was less than middle class people have where I live now. Edit : loving the battle with the down and upvotes but seriously I'd rather have more back and forth with actual data. Sources: 0. Growing up very poor in the USA, immigrating somewhere else. 1. The change over time https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobility-in-one-chart/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobil... 2. Comparisons globally https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mo...
- ch4s3 3y ago
  On a per capita basis Gen X and Millennials in the US are now doing better than their parents at the same age[1]. A lot of studies showing the opposite use raw numbers and share of total GDP, but don't account for the wildly large size of the Baby Boom generation. And anecdotally, pretty much anyone I know who isn't the child of a doctor or lawyer is doing better than their parents. [1]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/millennials-just-wealthy-parents-110000171.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/millennials-just-wealthy-pare...
  - throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
    The statement being "but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at". I don't think your rebuttal addresses the data I linked at all or supports the parent point at all Upward mobility is definitely down and the USA is no longer the world leader by some measurements. I get that won't persuade everyone but I'm happy to debate on that data instead of an unrelated discussion point even if it is interesting.
yoyohello13 3y ago
I hear this a lot for immigrants and I'm curious if you could be more specific on the advantages and opportunities you notice? Is it really a US thing, or a first world thing? Why do these opportunities not exist in other countries? It seems to me that a Canadian or UK or German citizen would have basically the same opportunities as a US citizen, but maybe I'm mistaken.
- bjornsing 3y ago
  I’m Swedish and have worked a lot with / for US companies, but not lived there. I think the reason is a fundamentally egalitarian culture, where crab mentality is not encouraged and people (not just engineers) are fine with working for nerds. Sweden is kind of the opposite, and it really decimates the opportunities available here. Perhaps not so much in quantity, but in quality.
- anon291 3y ago
  I mean for my parents, they were discriminated against in their own country (India). Despite all the racism accusations that get thrown around, Americans are much more willing to take chances on people. And then it's very easy to raise your children well here. My parents came to this country in their mid thirties and are well off (retired, own their home, have some disposable income). My brother and I are filthy rich (own homes, multiple in the case of my brother, large investments, etc). We didn't do anything magic. We just studied fields that were high paying, which are open to everyone in this country. People often complain that there's not enough reaching out to various communities. I guarantee you there was no outreach to mine. I'm still the only person I know from my particular background in the United States. My parents were completely clueless as to college and higher education in this country. But if you just take advantage of the free resources and work hard... It's extremely easy to get ahead. I saw so many people growing up simply refuse to take the steps.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    It is this particular narrative, and repeated evidence of it among specific immigrant populations, that the American left rails against. The reason is that it means it isn't "the system" it is culture and attitude that makes or breaks success.
solardev 3y ago
I have the opposite problem: I have a US passport (only), and wish I could emigrate to a developed country that isn't so dysfunctional, militaristic, and capitalistic. (I grew up in another country, but never got a passport there because I had a US one from birth. I also spent several weeks in a few other countries -- enough to get a very basic feel for their society and services.) The US is great if you want to "get ahead" (and manage to do so), but if you just want a peaceful, boring life, this is not the place to be. We treat our society like a zero-sum game. Between our terrible healthcare, education, school safety, infrastructure, public transportation, politics, insane housing costs, corrupt judges, stances on drugs and abortion, it really feels like a hellhole where either you're rich or you're worthless. I'd much rather prefer somewhere in Europe, especially Scandinavia, or maybe Canada or East Asia. But it's not easy to emigrate. Even this framing is itself pretty terrible: Our GDP outpaced expectations, so that must be good, right? Hardly. That just means the rich get richer, leaving everyone else even further behind. Life actually seemed way better for millions of working class folks during COVID, when the economy was tanking and government simply propped it up, and suddenly workers everywhere had a lot more respect and negotiation power, and unions grew for the first time in decades. It was the first time in my life I saw our society come together to work together, instead of trying to massively exploit the poor. Then a couple years after COVID and that all goes away, whether it's WFH or mass layoffs. I would say the US only makes sense IF you are strongly competitive/entrepreneurial and libertarian, not if you are community-minded and just want to live a normal life under a functioning democratic society. "Pro-business" usually means "anti-democratic" in our society, by disproportionately empowering capital ownership rather than democratic participation and process.
- arrowsmith 3y ago
  > I wish I could emigrate What's stopping you?
  - solardev 3y ago
    My understanding -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- is that you typically need either wealth, higher education (masters+), or an in-demand trade in order to emigrate to another country on a skilled visa or similar. I have only a B.S., negative net worth, and no special skills except web dev (which is increasingly worthless these days). Are there other avenues to emigration that I'm missing? Also, my partner is American and has family here. I keep trying to convince her to give foreign living a try, and she's traveled with me a bunch now, but it's still a lot to ask of someone who's only ever lived in their home country. Me, I've spent a lot of time traveling to different countries and have a pretty broad perspective to draw from. It's harder for someone who's never really done that. Still, I hope to coax her into it over time!
yodsanklai 3y ago
> if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at. If I was to be reincarnated as a random person in a given country, I wouldn't pick the US though. Even as a skilled worker who can decide where to work, I prefer some European countries for healthcare, vacations and culture. That being said, I feel Europe is declining and it feels the US could become a better choice in the near future.
- solardev 3y ago
  Why do you feel as though Europe is declining?
  - actuator 3y ago
    Most countries in Western Europe have the social net curse blogging them down. The high tax, high social care system only works if the country is on a good growth track. As more people turn old and retire, someone has to pay for those. With wage stagnation in most normal occupations and lack of growth, the way they have tried to tackle this is with increase in immigration, which in turn keeps wages low in low paying sectors. Also, unlike US which does integration really well, this is not true for Europe where high immigration is leading to even frictions because of lack of integration. On top of that, tech emerging as a big industry which forms a big part of the whole economic output of a country, has led to Europe losing out to US. Although only China through thier protectionism has been safe from that. You can see this in the commentary about UK politics, where they don't have money to fund NHS and NHS wages haven't grown which has bogged down their healthcare system. Most of the manufacturing ecosystem is completely degraded. Productivity is at a complete toss as well, as they are not even able to build high speed rail well now, which for a social net country like UK should be of paramount importance. To combat this, they have increased taxation, either through freezing slabs or moving down tax slabs. This penalises people in high wage professions and it leads to loss of competitiveness.
    - DanBC 3y ago
      > where they don't have money to fund NHS We do have the money to fund the NHS. Successive Conservative governments have made the choice to defund the NHS, along with public health, and social care. And they did all of this on top of Brexit.
chiefalchemist 3y ago
> I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at. Yes, this is what the US brand sells. And for you it worked. Your sample has a survivor bias so to speak. That aside, let's question the founding assumption: that the goal in life is to "get ahead". And that to "get ahead" the best way is to have the most opportunities. Perhaps this is why so many Americans (note: I was born, raised and live here) are unhappy, uncomfortable and unsatisfyied? That is, "getting ahead" isn't what it's cracked up to be? That after running on the rat wheel for so long and seeing so little in return, they're frustrated? My point is, the natural born experience is not the same as the immigrant experience. To be promised something and getting little is not the same as having little and then everything is a bonus. Yes you can get ahead here. Yes there is opportunity. The question is: how much joy and happiness will that bring? Will it last? Or is this a false construct that eventally reveals itself?
- kevin42 3y ago
  >Yes you can get ahead here. Yes there is opportunity. The question is: how much joy and happiness will that bring? Will it last? Or is this a false construct that eventally reveals itself? I think the answer to your question depends on the person and their personality. Many people get happiness and satisfaction from achievement, and the result of their work. For example, many people get happiness from achievements in sports, others in business. A few years ago, I was writing a lot of proposals for government work, and I was winning a lot of them, even when competing against large defense contractors. So much so that my company didn't need any more work. But I was enjoying the satisfaction of winning that I wanted to keep going. My friend (who was also partnered with me on those proposals) and I were reflecting on that, and we agreed that the validation that came with winning was what really was motivating us, more so than the money. Will it last? Again, I think it depends on the person. I think most high achievers get long term satisfaction from what they do. Not everyone, sure. But I don't think it's a false construct because some don't.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Yes it can vary from person to person. Nonetheless, the USA consistently doesn't rate well when it comes to happiness. Why is that? A lack of achievement? If so, who's hoarding all the opportunity?
Podgajski 3y ago
This is not a good sign, this is a problem. Because the economy is still growing so fast with interest rates as high as they are it means that the Fed is going to increase interest rates even further. This is going to make a recession a certainty in the near future. Also, with interest rates this high and the economy steaming along. That means inflation is going to keep rising as well.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  Recessions are never "a certainty"
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    The timing is never certain, but recessions will always happen. So they are a certainty.
- kjfdslakj 3y ago
  I don't follow you're line of reasoning. The Fed's mandate is maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates. None of that says too much GDP growth by itself means higher rates.
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    “The FOMC judges that low and stable inflation at the rate of 2 percent per year, as measured by the annual change in the price index for personal consumption expenditures, is most consistent with achievement of both parts of the dual mandate.” https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/monetary-policy-what-are-its-goals-how-does-it-work.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/monetary-polic... “Over time, growth in GDP causes inflation, which if left unchecked, runs the risk of morphing into hyperinflation. Most economists today agree that a small amount of inflation, about 2% a year, is more beneficial than detrimental to the economy.” https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/gdpinflation.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/gdpinflation.asp
    - 3y ago
dukeyukey 3y ago
It's such a pity the US immigration system is as completely broken as it is. I'd _eagerly_ move there if I could, but without a randomly-assigned sponsorship I can't. I've checked other countries - in Canada or Australia I pass with flying colours, and could move there inside a few months with full right-to-work and pathway to citizenship. But not the US.
- Mouthfeel 3y ago
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yieldcrv 3y ago
many US citizens are aware of that they're also aware that American Exceptionalism relies on comparing America to the most poorly run and suffocatingly authoritarian countries on the planet, and ignoring that the developed world exists at all people are aware that the US is a great starting point to go to those other developed nations. Getting a job in the US and moving to somewhere in Western Europe is a great privilege, greater than being born somewhere else and going straight to Western Europe, greater than being born in Western Europe without inheritance people are aware that the US could uniquely solve all of its own problems, and have all of the 21st century advances of the developed world, but it simply doesn't solve those problems and lacks consensus try not to misunderstand what US Citizens are aware of
- deleted 3y ago
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hfhdjdks 3y ago
>but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant The USA is pretty bad (compared to most rich / developed countries) in general at giving opportunities to the broader population. Check the studies on intergenerational mobility to see that the USA ranks pretty badly there. It's not surprising to me given the inequality of the education system and how segregated it is (in terms of social class, parent educational level, etc). You bring an interesting point though: "as an immigrant". Maybe the USA IS pretty good at giving opportunities to certain kind of immigrants (even if it isn't for the broader population). I haven't seen any study about it, but I'm sure there are analysis.
- kjfdslakj 3y ago
  Care to cite/summarize some of the studies?
  - SJetKaran 3y ago
    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-big-findings-on-opportunity-and-mobility-we-should-know/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-b...
    - refurb 3y ago
      The flaw in these social mobility studies is they don't account for absolute incomes. You can go from the lowest to the 2nd highest quintile in the US and be better off than the lowest to the highest in Canada.
ttymck 3y ago
The problem is I don't want to "get ahead" if what's behind me (all around me) is poverty, mass shootings and general unrest. I don't want to retreat to the suburbs to live well.
- anon291 3y ago
  The nicest neighborhoods in the country are in cities and these usually come with low crime rates. Chicago for all the shitting on it gets for it's high murder rates actually has dozens of neighborhoods that are larger than most towns, suburbs and cities, that have seen zero homicides for several years, which places them well below the national rate and makes them exceptionally safe. And I'm not some crime apologist. Look at my post history. I'm as conservative as they come. Just following the data.
adamredwoods 3y ago
>> but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at I don't understand, these types of comments are relative. Which countries are we comparing? Why the US over another country, for example, Canada? France? Sweden? Japan? Thailand? Have people tried these out (I know people who have!)? The only reason I can think of Why the US over another place is is the amount of wealth and the amount of land in the US is staggering, and the appeal of that makes people feel wealthy themselves by way of association. It's a glamorous lure. Or is it because of less government restrictions and oversight? Which has its downsides as well. I feel, as my primary residence, that the US is a cutthroat place to live. Those that speak well of it usually have been lucky.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
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oldbbsnickname 3y ago
- Mass shootings every damn day (one loose right now is a military firearms instructor who had a psychotic break and shot up almost 100 people) - No universal healthcare - No universal mental healthcare - Millions of homeless and functionally housing-insecure people - Crazy people in government who don't want it to function and who supported the insurrectionists - Absurdly gerrymandered Congressional districts that put the thumb on the scale for one side - Grotesque corruption of dark money in politics - Supreme Court justice who pals around with and takes gifts from a billionaire, oh and sexually harassed women - Like a third-world country, women don't have a federal right to choose what happens to their own bodies - No meaningful climate change policy - Massive income inequality - An inability of the average family to purchase real estate - A doddering old man sleepwalking the US into a new era of terrorism in 2026-2029 by taking the side of a brutal, corrupt authoritarian and an inability to apply the nuance to the Middle East conflict Apart from mythological ideals, what specific benefit do US citizens have that British or EU Schengen citizens lack? I want to know if it's net better in say Finland or Sweden for average people because it's not very nice here.
silexia 3y ago
A lot of folks forget that the US's advantages and opportunities derive directly from the fact that individual citizens have a far greater amount of freedom and power versus the government here than people do anywhere else in the world. Freedom of speech, religion, gathering, and many other things. Those freedoms are defended by individual power. All power in the world derives from force. The benefit of private gun ownership is a much higher level of individual power and thus the ability to defend that freedom vs the continuous encroaches of government. Mass shootings are an unfortunate side effect, but one worth accepting. I'd rather have a few thousand gun related deaths a year than hundreds of thousands or millions die when a too powerful government takes power.
lnxg33k1 3y ago
Well if you don’t have to go to school in US as a kid and become a citizen outside of school shooting age thats great
safety1st 3y ago
This is an article about economics. 9 times out of 10 when you talk to people about the US (especially on the Internet), they want to talk about politics. The reality is that US politics is utterly fucked up, but the US economy is by far the strongest in the world, it might be the most resilient economy in all of human history, it's continually astounding how it manages to surge forward, overcome obstacles and grow. If you are a US citizen, you have access to this economy in ways that other people don't. So let me throw out a couple examples of this. * Energy. A shale revolution is now well underway in North America, what this translates to is energy independence and some of the cheapest oil on the planet being well within the USA's grasp. But what you will hear Americans talk about if you bring this up is the POLITICAL problem of how we can't regulate emissions and the climate apocalypse is going to cook us all. Look I'm not saying that climate change isn't a serious problem. It is. But keeping with my theme here, it's going to cook India a lot sooner than it cooks the USA. And the ECONOMIC benefits to the US of the shale revolution are enormous. * Home-shoring. The amount of money going into rebuilding domestic manufacturing capacity right now is staggering, we're in the early stages of an enormous boom and a resurgence of stuff that's made in the USA, including very high tech companies like TSMC building factories in the US. Again people want to talk about the POLITICS with China and how messy they are, but ECONOMICALLY, the US is going to benefit from a ton of manufacturing growth over the next decade. * Demographics. In the long run, economically, China's doomed, Japan's doomed, the outlook for much of Europe is bleak because they're not having kids. The US still has kids at a somewhat decent rate and has tons of immigration. So again everyone will want to argue about the POLITICS of illegal immigration, but the fact of the matter is, ECONOMICALLY the US will benefit greatly from its demographics. * Tech, rocket ships, you name it - in virtually all bleeding edge industries, the USA is #1 or #2. Betting that the US economy will win (even just in a simple form like using your spare cash to buy the S&P 500 and hold it, something that billions of people in this world can't easily do), just keeps on being the right call, almost continuously since WW2. I'm not saying the politics aren't totally fucked up. They are. I'm not saying the wealth this economy creates is distributed fairly. It's not. But especially online the discussion is way way way way way skewed towards "look how bad these awful US political problems are" meanwhile the one big advantage you have as an American is you have direct access to this unbelievable economic machine, you are actually a member of it, you can buy and sell things in it (and that is how we get to why the entrepreneurial stuff is important!).
anonu 3y ago
Spot on. Immigrants are usually the most thankful and grateful because they have the perspective. I've found that second+ generation Americans tend to be the declinists and doomsdayers when it comes to the future of the USA. I'm making broad sweeping generalities here. This is why MAGA made no sense to me. America is great already. It's not perfect and has a lot of things that need to be fixed. But MAGA is starting from behind.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

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ajaynv31 3y ago

Another immigrant chiming in - I love love love this country … my wife and I went from lower middle class in india to being in the 98th percentile of household income here .. and that has literally extended the lives of our loved ones back home .. my wife’s father was diagnosed with cardio vascular issues sometime ago but he decided to ignore them because he simply couldn’t afford the treatment. So when my wife and I started working in the USA , we made enough to get him treated for his issues at some of the best hospitals in India. Unsurprisingly , my wife’s love for USA knows no bounds - she’s one of the most patriotic immigrants you’ll ever meet

jankyxenon 3y ago

Agreed. As an immigrant myself - I think this gets lots on both sides of politics. Everyone talks about how the country is being ruined - when really its got the most advantages relative to the rest of the world.

MattGaiser 3y ago
People have to be kept into ruined places. That is certainly not the USA.
pokstad 3y ago
Really all you need to be the best is slightly better than everyone else.
solardev 3y ago
I think it depends on where you're comparing it to, and what you mean by the "rest of the world". Most of the rest of the world, by area or population, is very poor. But the US is not so special compared to the developed parts of Europe or East Asia or Canada, offering many of the same quality-of-life benefits with inferior social services and less participatory democracy.
- hibikir 3y ago
  It's not quite so easy. I was born and raised in Spain, and live and work in the US. I have plenty of family still there, and travel there often enough. Does Spain have significant advantages in social services? Sure! Politics are a little better there too. I also vastly prefer Spain's urbanism, where even small towns are far more alive than the largest, densest US metros. But that's not all there is to it. I look at Spain's labor market and I see a country that is massively failing: Triple the unemployment rate. People out of college there, with good majors, that end up making far less than what they'd to at McDonalds in the US. Young adults can't afford housing either, but not because they have massive student debt, or high healthcare costs, or extreme housing prices, but because salaries are pretty sad. My brother does bioinformatics and has a Ph.D, and he'd make 4x what he does, today, doing the same job in the massive, booming metropolis that is... St Louis, Missouri. He lives with our retired mother, and they can barely make ends meet. Ultimately the higher growth advantage for the US is long lasting too: If your GDP growth is 0.5% higher than your neighbor, every single year, compound interest makes the difference very stark after a few decades... and a place like Spain already starts 30% poorer. So yes, I'd still argue that the US is ahead in many areas. The riskiest issue is the difficulty of reforms: Good luck reforming higher education or healthcare, even though other countries have working systems that are better. But even though all it takes to see the advantages of change is to look a little bit, progress seems very difficult, as there's just so much money and power on the line in keeping the status quo. But that might be the theme of the last couple of decades in all democracies: Unwillingness to reform in the face of dysfunction.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    As a US citizen, resident of 34 years, born and raised in the UK, I applaud your analysis. I'd also add that the US is a fabulous place to live if you make a solid income (say, 10-20% above median), but a pretty shitty place to live if you do not.

ChicagoBoy11 3y ago

I'm an immigrant myself, and I share this sentiment deeply as well. The best description which I ever heard, curiously enough, was on a really old episode of this American life. My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I think it was some small story of folks doing car audio competitions, where the point was to build the car with the loudest possible speaker. It was absurd, silly, and for a nerd, obviously enthralling. But at some point, I don't know if it is the narrator or someone in the story, but they say something to the effect of: "Everyone wants to be king of the hill, but there aren't enough hills to go around. The US is particularly great at creating more hills."

zsmizzle 3y ago
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/279/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/279/transcript
- ChicagoBoy11 3y ago
  Ha, yeah, that's it. And, the quote in question, from David Segal, apparently: "Everyone wants to be the king of the hill. That's international. But the number of aspiring kings always dwarfs the number of available hills. So in this country, we build more hills. We're geniuses, in fact, at building more hills."
  - dempedempe 3y ago
    Which is great until those hills directly or indirectly affect people's health. Healthcare should not be a hill. Prisons should not be a hill. Politics should not be a hill.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      They affect health by creating enormous numbers of new fields for research and medicine, which after patent expiry is generified and manufactured cheaply for eternity.

finite_depth 3y ago

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CafeRacer 3y ago

I'd wish to be an immigrant to the US myself. Actively working on that now. I left states several years ago and regretted that decision ever since.

hotpotamus 3y ago

Speaking as a marginally disabled US citizen - it's a terrifying place where if I become too disabled to maintain employment, I'll lose my health insurance and then my access to healthcare. I guess it's good that a lot of people are making money though; it seems like the advertising business is going gangbusters too. I don't really consider that much of a national purpose, but it seems pretty hard to get everyone to agree on what that would be anyway. Edit: I'm rate-limited so to answer the apparent question everyone has: I live in Texas; it's not exactly friendly regarding Medicaid, but I don't know what it takes to qualify. https://www.keranews.org/health-wellness/2023-08-16/medicaid-plans-texas-expansion https://www.keranews.org/health-wellness/2023-08-16/medicaid...

HideousKojima 3y ago
If you're unemployed in the US then you'd most likely qualify for Medicaid though
- ericfrazier 3y ago
  Depends on how you became unemployed. There is a long wait for Medicare if you "voluntarily" left your last position, even if you were forced out by cowards who wanted to keep their record clean and be able to say they never fire anyone.
GoldenMonkey 3y ago
I don't understand this... you would qualify for Medicaid. And it covers everything. No copays. Better than private health insurance.
- throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
  https://millerestateandelderlaw.com/medicaid-out-of-pocket-costs-what-you-need-to-know/ https://millerestateandelderlaw.com/medicaid-out-of-pocket-c...
- JoshTriplett 3y ago
  Medicaid coverage often has many requirements to qualify. Most notably, in many jurisdictions, there is an aggressive asset limit that requires you to liquidate almost everything you own, in order to get coverage when disabled or elderly. Those limits can apply retroactively up to five years, and can also prevent disabled people from being able to marry, because they would lose benefits due to a partner's assets.

gumballindie 3y ago

Would have loved to live in the US but dread the idea of H1B. I find it paradoxical that living in the most free country in the world required living in servitude for a good number of years. So the investor route is the only option it seems, one which i am still considering once capital becomes available.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
Servitude implies no payment and little freedom, whereas with an H1B you have often high payment and complete freedom in all ways besides your actual employer. However, your employer is still bound by all of the employment laws of the nation and state, so real abuse is quite difficult to pull off.
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  I don't think this is accurate. In the US, the onus of abuse reporting is on the employee. You can abuse your employee knowing that if they report you, you'll know they reported you, and can carefully torpedo their career knowing the employee has a very high bar to legally prove retaliation in court.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Can? Yes. Do? Not really, not often. Abuse is possible! It’s just not common, not in the sense of “servitude” being slavery or some other kind of abominable condition. Maybe you get the shit work, maybe you work more hours, but let’s not pretend these are the salt mines.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  Words have meaning. When we use 'indentured servitude' in the modern context it means that it is not easy for a h1b worker to change employers as easily as someone with residency or citizenship. This is irrefutably true. When people cannot easily change jobs they deal with worse working conditions and worse pay. I have seen people work for the same employer for over a decade because they would have to restart their greencard process otherwise.

asow92 3y ago

The immigrants I know who become US citizens know this to be true. Many of natural born citizens I grew up with either aren't aware of this reality or are misinformed about it. Many natural born US citizens don't know what makes America so special. Yes there are problems in America, but how many of those problems are the result of an apathetic, nihilistic American population and not the foundational systems America is built on?

slowmovintarget 3y ago
Many of the problems are the result of active attempts to dismantle or dilute the foundational systems America is built on.
IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
systems change over time, which i think is part of the issue. Trends matter. I think the US is today the best place in the world to be born in. I have far less certainty for americans 2 generations away
- arrowsmith 3y ago
  I say the same of the UK. Maybe not the #1 best possible place to be born, but definitely in the top 10. I'm extremely lucky and privileged to have been born in the United Kingdom. Will that still be true for people born here fifty years from now? I have my doubts.
boeingUH60 3y ago
Not surprising that immigrants aware of this fact come to the US and largely do better than the whining, natural-born citizens.
- RankingMember 3y ago
  This is one of many reasons that my head hurts when I hear people espouse anti-immigrant sentiment, often on the basis of made-up nonsense about "them" being freeloaders/tax burdens.

throwawaydizjsj 3y ago

But it's not the case, it sounds good on paper but it has been a long time since the USA was a good place to lift yourself up by your bootstraps, there are so many things that hold you down on the way up that do not exist in other countries (really just the medical situation alone). That said I'm very glad you're happy and it has worked out well for you. However, my only regret was that I did not leave sooner, it did not work out for well for me on the balance, IE I did make money, but my quality of life was less than middle class people have where I live now. Edit : loving the battle with the down and upvotes but seriously I'd rather have more back and forth with actual data. Sources: 0. Growing up very poor in the USA, immigrating somewhere else. 1. The change over time https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobility-in-one-chart/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobil... 2. Comparisons globally https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mo...

ch4s3 3y ago
On a per capita basis Gen X and Millennials in the US are now doing better than their parents at the same age[1]. A lot of studies showing the opposite use raw numbers and share of total GDP, but don't account for the wildly large size of the Baby Boom generation. And anecdotally, pretty much anyone I know who isn't the child of a doctor or lawyer is doing better than their parents. [1]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/millennials-just-wealthy-parents-110000171.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/millennials-just-wealthy-pare...
- throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
  The statement being "but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at". I don't think your rebuttal addresses the data I linked at all or supports the parent point at all Upward mobility is definitely down and the USA is no longer the world leader by some measurements. I get that won't persuade everyone but I'm happy to debate on that data instead of an unrelated discussion point even if it is interesting.

yoyohello13 3y ago

I hear this a lot for immigrants and I'm curious if you could be more specific on the advantages and opportunities you notice? Is it really a US thing, or a first world thing? Why do these opportunities not exist in other countries? It seems to me that a Canadian or UK or German citizen would have basically the same opportunities as a US citizen, but maybe I'm mistaken.

bjornsing 3y ago
I’m Swedish and have worked a lot with / for US companies, but not lived there. I think the reason is a fundamentally egalitarian culture, where crab mentality is not encouraged and people (not just engineers) are fine with working for nerds. Sweden is kind of the opposite, and it really decimates the opportunities available here. Perhaps not so much in quantity, but in quality.
anon291 3y ago
I mean for my parents, they were discriminated against in their own country (India). Despite all the racism accusations that get thrown around, Americans are much more willing to take chances on people. And then it's very easy to raise your children well here. My parents came to this country in their mid thirties and are well off (retired, own their home, have some disposable income). My brother and I are filthy rich (own homes, multiple in the case of my brother, large investments, etc). We didn't do anything magic. We just studied fields that were high paying, which are open to everyone in this country. People often complain that there's not enough reaching out to various communities. I guarantee you there was no outreach to mine. I'm still the only person I know from my particular background in the United States. My parents were completely clueless as to college and higher education in this country. But if you just take advantage of the free resources and work hard... It's extremely easy to get ahead. I saw so many people growing up simply refuse to take the steps.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  It is this particular narrative, and repeated evidence of it among specific immigrant populations, that the American left rails against. The reason is that it means it isn't "the system" it is culture and attitude that makes or breaks success.

solardev 3y ago

I have the opposite problem: I have a US passport (only), and wish I could emigrate to a developed country that isn't so dysfunctional, militaristic, and capitalistic. (I grew up in another country, but never got a passport there because I had a US one from birth. I also spent several weeks in a few other countries -- enough to get a very basic feel for their society and services.) The US is great if you want to "get ahead" (and manage to do so), but if you just want a peaceful, boring life, this is not the place to be. We treat our society like a zero-sum game. Between our terrible healthcare, education, school safety, infrastructure, public transportation, politics, insane housing costs, corrupt judges, stances on drugs and abortion, it really feels like a hellhole where either you're rich or you're worthless. I'd much rather prefer somewhere in Europe, especially Scandinavia, or maybe Canada or East Asia. But it's not easy to emigrate. Even this framing is itself pretty terrible: Our GDP outpaced expectations, so that must be good, right? Hardly. That just means the rich get richer, leaving everyone else even further behind. Life actually seemed way better for millions of working class folks during COVID, when the economy was tanking and government simply propped it up, and suddenly workers everywhere had a lot more respect and negotiation power, and unions grew for the first time in decades. It was the first time in my life I saw our society come together to work together, instead of trying to massively exploit the poor. Then a couple years after COVID and that all goes away, whether it's WFH or mass layoffs. I would say the US only makes sense IF you are strongly competitive/entrepreneurial and libertarian, not if you are community-minded and just want to live a normal life under a functioning democratic society. "Pro-business" usually means "anti-democratic" in our society, by disproportionately empowering capital ownership rather than democratic participation and process.

arrowsmith 3y ago
> I wish I could emigrate What's stopping you?
- solardev 3y ago
  My understanding -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- is that you typically need either wealth, higher education (masters+), or an in-demand trade in order to emigrate to another country on a skilled visa or similar. I have only a B.S., negative net worth, and no special skills except web dev (which is increasingly worthless these days). Are there other avenues to emigration that I'm missing? Also, my partner is American and has family here. I keep trying to convince her to give foreign living a try, and she's traveled with me a bunch now, but it's still a lot to ask of someone who's only ever lived in their home country. Me, I've spent a lot of time traveling to different countries and have a pretty broad perspective to draw from. It's harder for someone who's never really done that. Still, I hope to coax her into it over time!

yodsanklai 3y ago

> if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at. If I was to be reincarnated as a random person in a given country, I wouldn't pick the US though. Even as a skilled worker who can decide where to work, I prefer some European countries for healthcare, vacations and culture. That being said, I feel Europe is declining and it feels the US could become a better choice in the near future.

solardev 3y ago
Why do you feel as though Europe is declining?
- actuator 3y ago
  Most countries in Western Europe have the social net curse blogging them down. The high tax, high social care system only works if the country is on a good growth track. As more people turn old and retire, someone has to pay for those. With wage stagnation in most normal occupations and lack of growth, the way they have tried to tackle this is with increase in immigration, which in turn keeps wages low in low paying sectors. Also, unlike US which does integration really well, this is not true for Europe where high immigration is leading to even frictions because of lack of integration. On top of that, tech emerging as a big industry which forms a big part of the whole economic output of a country, has led to Europe losing out to US. Although only China through thier protectionism has been safe from that. You can see this in the commentary about UK politics, where they don't have money to fund NHS and NHS wages haven't grown which has bogged down their healthcare system. Most of the manufacturing ecosystem is completely degraded. Productivity is at a complete toss as well, as they are not even able to build high speed rail well now, which for a social net country like UK should be of paramount importance. To combat this, they have increased taxation, either through freezing slabs or moving down tax slabs. This penalises people in high wage professions and it leads to loss of competitiveness.
  - DanBC 3y ago
    > where they don't have money to fund NHS We do have the money to fund the NHS. Successive Conservative governments have made the choice to defund the NHS, along with public health, and social care. And they did all of this on top of Brexit.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

> I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at. Yes, this is what the US brand sells. And for you it worked. Your sample has a survivor bias so to speak. That aside, let's question the founding assumption: that the goal in life is to "get ahead". And that to "get ahead" the best way is to have the most opportunities. Perhaps this is why so many Americans (note: I was born, raised and live here) are unhappy, uncomfortable and unsatisfyied? That is, "getting ahead" isn't what it's cracked up to be? That after running on the rat wheel for so long and seeing so little in return, they're frustrated? My point is, the natural born experience is not the same as the immigrant experience. To be promised something and getting little is not the same as having little and then everything is a bonus. Yes you can get ahead here. Yes there is opportunity. The question is: how much joy and happiness will that bring? Will it last? Or is this a false construct that eventally reveals itself?

kevin42 3y ago
>Yes you can get ahead here. Yes there is opportunity. The question is: how much joy and happiness will that bring? Will it last? Or is this a false construct that eventally reveals itself? I think the answer to your question depends on the person and their personality. Many people get happiness and satisfaction from achievement, and the result of their work. For example, many people get happiness from achievements in sports, others in business. A few years ago, I was writing a lot of proposals for government work, and I was winning a lot of them, even when competing against large defense contractors. So much so that my company didn't need any more work. But I was enjoying the satisfaction of winning that I wanted to keep going. My friend (who was also partnered with me on those proposals) and I were reflecting on that, and we agreed that the validation that came with winning was what really was motivating us, more so than the money. Will it last? Again, I think it depends on the person. I think most high achievers get long term satisfaction from what they do. Not everyone, sure. But I don't think it's a false construct because some don't.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Yes it can vary from person to person. Nonetheless, the USA consistently doesn't rate well when it comes to happiness. Why is that? A lack of achievement? If so, who's hoarding all the opportunity?

Podgajski 3y ago

This is not a good sign, this is a problem. Because the economy is still growing so fast with interest rates as high as they are it means that the Fed is going to increase interest rates even further. This is going to make a recession a certainty in the near future. Also, with interest rates this high and the economy steaming along. That means inflation is going to keep rising as well.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Recessions are never "a certainty"
- Podgajski 3y ago
  The timing is never certain, but recessions will always happen. So they are a certainty.
kjfdslakj 3y ago
I don't follow you're line of reasoning. The Fed's mandate is maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates. None of that says too much GDP growth by itself means higher rates.
- Podgajski 3y ago
  “The FOMC judges that low and stable inflation at the rate of 2 percent per year, as measured by the annual change in the price index for personal consumption expenditures, is most consistent with achievement of both parts of the dual mandate.” https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/monetary-policy-what-are-its-goals-how-does-it-work.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/monetary-polic... “Over time, growth in GDP causes inflation, which if left unchecked, runs the risk of morphing into hyperinflation. Most economists today agree that a small amount of inflation, about 2% a year, is more beneficial than detrimental to the economy.” https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/gdpinflation.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/gdpinflation.asp
  - 3y ago

dukeyukey 3y ago

It's such a pity the US immigration system is as completely broken as it is. I'd _eagerly_ move there if I could, but without a randomly-assigned sponsorship I can't. I've checked other countries - in Canada or Australia I pass with flying colours, and could move there inside a few months with full right-to-work and pathway to citizenship. But not the US.

Mouthfeel 3y ago
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yieldcrv 3y ago

many US citizens are aware of that they're also aware that American Exceptionalism relies on comparing America to the most poorly run and suffocatingly authoritarian countries on the planet, and ignoring that the developed world exists at all people are aware that the US is a great starting point to go to those other developed nations. Getting a job in the US and moving to somewhere in Western Europe is a great privilege, greater than being born somewhere else and going straight to Western Europe, greater than being born in Western Europe without inheritance people are aware that the US could uniquely solve all of its own problems, and have all of the 21st century advances of the developed world, but it simply doesn't solve those problems and lacks consensus try not to misunderstand what US Citizens are aware of

deleted 3y ago
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hfhdjdks 3y ago

>but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant The USA is pretty bad (compared to most rich / developed countries) in general at giving opportunities to the broader population. Check the studies on intergenerational mobility to see that the USA ranks pretty badly there. It's not surprising to me given the inequality of the education system and how segregated it is (in terms of social class, parent educational level, etc). You bring an interesting point though: "as an immigrant". Maybe the USA IS pretty good at giving opportunities to certain kind of immigrants (even if it isn't for the broader population). I haven't seen any study about it, but I'm sure there are analysis.

kjfdslakj 3y ago
Care to cite/summarize some of the studies?
- SJetKaran 3y ago
  https://www.brookings.edu/articles/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-big-findings-on-opportunity-and-mobility-we-should-know/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/raj-chetty-in-14-charts-b...
  - refurb 3y ago
    The flaw in these social mobility studies is they don't account for absolute incomes. You can go from the lowest to the 2nd highest quintile in the US and be better off than the lowest to the highest in Canada.

ttymck 3y ago

The problem is I don't want to "get ahead" if what's behind me (all around me) is poverty, mass shootings and general unrest. I don't want to retreat to the suburbs to live well.

anon291 3y ago
The nicest neighborhoods in the country are in cities and these usually come with low crime rates. Chicago for all the shitting on it gets for it's high murder rates actually has dozens of neighborhoods that are larger than most towns, suburbs and cities, that have seen zero homicides for several years, which places them well below the national rate and makes them exceptionally safe. And I'm not some crime apologist. Look at my post history. I'm as conservative as they come. Just following the data.

adamredwoods 3y ago

>> but if I had to choose a country to get ahead in life with the most opportunities possible as an immigrant, US is still the country to be at I don't understand, these types of comments are relative. Which countries are we comparing? Why the US over another country, for example, Canada? France? Sweden? Japan? Thailand? Have people tried these out (I know people who have!)? The only reason I can think of Why the US over another place is is the amount of wealth and the amount of land in the US is staggering, and the appeal of that makes people feel wealthy themselves by way of association. It's a glamorous lure. Or is it because of less government restrictions and oversight? Which has its downsides as well. I feel, as my primary residence, that the US is a cutthroat place to live. Those that speak well of it usually have been lucky.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

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oldbbsnickname 3y ago

- Mass shootings every damn day (one loose right now is a military firearms instructor who had a psychotic break and shot up almost 100 people) - No universal healthcare - No universal mental healthcare - Millions of homeless and functionally housing-insecure people - Crazy people in government who don't want it to function and who supported the insurrectionists - Absurdly gerrymandered Congressional districts that put the thumb on the scale for one side - Grotesque corruption of dark money in politics - Supreme Court justice who pals around with and takes gifts from a billionaire, oh and sexually harassed women - Like a third-world country, women don't have a federal right to choose what happens to their own bodies - No meaningful climate change policy - Massive income inequality - An inability of the average family to purchase real estate - A doddering old man sleepwalking the US into a new era of terrorism in 2026-2029 by taking the side of a brutal, corrupt authoritarian and an inability to apply the nuance to the Middle East conflict Apart from mythological ideals, what specific benefit do US citizens have that British or EU Schengen citizens lack? I want to know if it's net better in say Finland or Sweden for average people because it's not very nice here.

silexia 3y ago

A lot of folks forget that the US's advantages and opportunities derive directly from the fact that individual citizens have a far greater amount of freedom and power versus the government here than people do anywhere else in the world. Freedom of speech, religion, gathering, and many other things. Those freedoms are defended by individual power. All power in the world derives from force. The benefit of private gun ownership is a much higher level of individual power and thus the ability to defend that freedom vs the continuous encroaches of government. Mass shootings are an unfortunate side effect, but one worth accepting. I'd rather have a few thousand gun related deaths a year than hundreds of thousands or millions die when a too powerful government takes power.

lnxg33k1 3y ago

Well if you don’t have to go to school in US as a kid and become a citizen outside of school shooting age thats great

safety1st 3y ago

This is an article about economics. 9 times out of 10 when you talk to people about the US (especially on the Internet), they want to talk about politics. The reality is that US politics is utterly fucked up, but the US economy is by far the strongest in the world, it might be the most resilient economy in all of human history, it's continually astounding how it manages to surge forward, overcome obstacles and grow. If you are a US citizen, you have access to this economy in ways that other people don't. So let me throw out a couple examples of this. * Energy. A shale revolution is now well underway in North America, what this translates to is energy independence and some of the cheapest oil on the planet being well within the USA's grasp. But what you will hear Americans talk about if you bring this up is the POLITICAL problem of how we can't regulate emissions and the climate apocalypse is going to cook us all. Look I'm not saying that climate change isn't a serious problem. It is. But keeping with my theme here, it's going to cook India a lot sooner than it cooks the USA. And the ECONOMIC benefits to the US of the shale revolution are enormous. * Home-shoring. The amount of money going into rebuilding domestic manufacturing capacity right now is staggering, we're in the early stages of an enormous boom and a resurgence of stuff that's made in the USA, including very high tech companies like TSMC building factories in the US. Again people want to talk about the POLITICS with China and how messy they are, but ECONOMICALLY, the US is going to benefit from a ton of manufacturing growth over the next decade. * Demographics. In the long run, economically, China's doomed, Japan's doomed, the outlook for much of Europe is bleak because they're not having kids. The US still has kids at a somewhat decent rate and has tons of immigration. So again everyone will want to argue about the POLITICS of illegal immigration, but the fact of the matter is, ECONOMICALLY the US will benefit greatly from its demographics. * Tech, rocket ships, you name it - in virtually all bleeding edge industries, the USA is #1 or #2. Betting that the US economy will win (even just in a simple form like using your spare cash to buy the S&P 500 and hold it, something that billions of people in this world can't easily do), just keeps on being the right call, almost continuously since WW2. I'm not saying the politics aren't totally fucked up. They are. I'm not saying the wealth this economy creates is distributed fairly. It's not. But especially online the discussion is way way way way way skewed towards "look how bad these awful US political problems are" meanwhile the one big advantage you have as an American is you have direct access to this unbelievable economic machine, you are actually a member of it, you can buy and sell things in it (and that is how we get to why the entrepreneurial stuff is important!).

anonu 3y ago

Spot on. Immigrants are usually the most thankful and grateful because they have the perspective. I've found that second+ generation Americans tend to be the declinists and doomsdayers when it comes to the future of the USA. I'm making broad sweeping generalities here. This is why MAGA made no sense to me. America is great already. It's not perfect and has a lot of things that need to be fixed. But MAGA is starting from behind.