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India suspends visas for Canadians as row escalates

136 points by vinni2 3y ago

hkkwritesgmail 3y ago
Does Canada condemn the assassination of Bin Laden by the Americans on Pakistani soil ?
eureka-belief 3y ago
The defensiveness and overreaction of India suggests that something is amiss. Why not just either 1) work with Canada to convince them they didn’t do it, or 2) just let it go?
- donbox 3y ago
  That goes for Canada too, what was the need to go public and that too without presenting any evidence.
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    It seems unlikely to be false and made up, it's not like Canada goes about saying stuff like this, historically. At the same time it's not hard to imagine a case where revealing the evidence/sources would compromise the capabilities/assets used come up with this conclusion. Perhaps the early announcement is a misstep from the Canadian PM, but I really doubt that they would make this stuff up. They have very little to gain by coming out with this, if untrue, and a lot to lose. And if the allegations are true, Canada still is probably in an unenviable position of not wanting to come stir problem unnecessarily, but also not being able to let it slide and be seen as a push over. Extraterritorial killings by foreign nations is a big deal, and being soft on this is opening the door to a whole lot of problems.
    - stronglikedan 3y ago
      > it's not like Canada goes about saying stuff like this, historically Almost nothing Trudeau is doing could be considered historic.
      - momirlan 3y ago
        historically low, it is.
    - neom 3y ago
      Somewhat reminds me of the situation with Meng Wanzhou. Canada seems to end up with high profile folks with ties to other countries that then put Canada in a difficult position. China is still angry at Canada over the Meng Wanzhou situation (among other things). Xi Jinping took a swipe at Trudeau in front of the Camera recently, Modi is now telling me to f'off. Politics aside, say what you will about Justin, sure as heck wouldn't want to be him.
    - teitoklien 3y ago
      I would be weary of trusting the current Canadian prime minister CSIS and Canadian NSA (Canadian Intelligence Services) overall have a good reputation but have been mismanaged recently and also have been politicised and made to lie about events An example incident around 2018-2019 Canadian Prime Minister on his visit to India in 2018 had invited a known terrorist in hiding to his gala, who was shown to even take a photograph with his wife, the first lady at that event [0] Then after this incident blew up back then, the national security advisor of Canada, CSIS and the Canadian Prime Minister claimed that it was rogue elements in the Indian government who brought the criminal to the gala to embarass Canada [1] Only for a liberal mp from Prime Minister’s own party admitting they were the ones who invited the known fugitive who was facing charges on attempted murder against Indian beauracrats and journalists. [2][3] It was a disaster and showed how the current prime minister likes to use public services to save his face and make false accusation against other governments and nations. The Minister even had to resign later for this. I’ve added two attributions for last point [2] and [3] a canadian and a indian media source as it wasnt widely publicised in Canada (considering how embarrassing it was for them) but was widely shown in India I linked only canadian sources and newspapers to give them the benefit of the doubt. [0](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-timeline-of-events-in-the-jaspal-atwal-affair https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time...) [1](https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ) [2](https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56 https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56) [3](https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw)
  - thrusong 3y ago
    Apparently Robert Fife told the PMO they were going to run this. The government asked them to hold off for a week, and then The Globe and Mail said "no, we're running it in 24 hours."
  - martin8412 3y ago
    The press was about to make it public.
- mortureb 3y ago
  Generally being amicable in situations like this where you are accused of serious issues is viewed as insulting. I’m not saying they didn’t do it, I’m just saying that even if they didn’t they wouldn’t take kindly to it just being thrown in their face.
- pratikss 3y ago
  Do you expect for someone to not be defensive after you accuse them of murder? And then how can you ask them to investigate themselves? In civilized countries false accusation is considered criminal offense. Accusation comes after evidence, not before or during investigation.
- michael1999 3y ago
  Because they did it, and resent being called on it. The USA reserves the right to assassinate any one, any where, at any time as long as someone with signing authority calls them a terrorist. The Russians have made a game of it with their exotic mix of radioactive poisons and throwing people out of windows. The current nationalist government of India is demanding these same prerogatives to match their self-conception of India and status as a major power. Or (only slightly) more charitably: India would have been happy to keen this quiet. But once Canada announced this, India had to respond. Their voters respond well to muscular gestures, so something flashy like a visa ban demonstrates their toughness. Canada had already generating some bad publicity in India, and beating up on us for a little bit will probably make number go up.
  - footlose_3815 3y ago
    Russia doesn't assasinate terrorists though, they simply murder dissenters. The oligarchy has lots of enemies.
    - areyousure 3y ago
      No comment on the broader claims of this comment, but "terrorists" are also a targeted group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelimkhan_Khangoshvili https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelimkhan_Khangoshvili
    - DoItToMe81 3y ago
      They do, when they view themselves as in immediate danger. They killed Ibn Al-Khattab by bribing his courier into delivering him a letter laced with nerve agent.
  - yumraj 3y ago
    > Because they did it, and resent being called on it. based on what evidence??
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- yumraj 3y ago
  So India should just accept being called a murderer without evidence, and expulsion of its diplomat as well as Trudeau’s clear support to Khalistanis in Canada. I don’t think so. The onus is on Canada to provide evidence, not on India. Remember, innocent until proven guilty - or would you like that legal principal to be changed? Secondly, I’ll say that silence is an admission of guilt. India is daring Trudeau to show evidence or retract.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Innocent until proven guilty isn't a legal concept that applies to international relations, it is a colloquial phrase that clarifies rights in certain criminal cases. But also, "silence is an admission of guilt" is in direct contradiction to innocent until proven guilty. There are a variety of reasons why Canada might not provide proof to your satisfaction. One might be that it would expose intelligence channels that they are trying to keep alive (literally, in some cases). It has also only been a few days, and there is likely some pretty serious maneuvering on both sides where withholding information is important. I can also assure you that most Canadians, including the PM do not care in particular about "Khalistanis", or really know what that means in the context of Indian politics. Before this week, I would be surprised if most Canadians knew there was a rift between Hindus and Sikhs Canada does need to provide proof, but in Canadian politics you simply don't make an announcement like this as the PM without strong evidence.
    - yumraj 3y ago
      So, I'm assuming that tomorrow Indian PM can make a claim that Canadian agents (CSIS?) was behind it and not provide any evidence. That'll be equivalent and acceptable right? India has provided ample evidence including via Interpol (whatever the process is called, red something notice or whatever) regarding various Khalistanis and Canada hasn't acted. Culprits from Air India bombing in the 80s were acquitted since Canadian intelligence had decided to erase evidence. Just look at the videos of the Gurudwara in question, it has posters calling for assassination of Indian diplomats. Graffiti was painted in Hindu temples in Canada. Etc. Etc. It is very clear that Canadian governments and politicians have a soft spot for Khalistanis since they constitute a sizeable vote bank. I believe NDP leader is also a Khalistan sympathizer, has to be if he wants Sikh votes in Canada. Having said that, I still believe that this is not a rift between Hindus and Sikhs. This is limited to a vocal, but powerful, minority of Sikh diaspora. Khalistan is a non-issue within India, but can flare up which is why governments need to be careful. Edit: I have no idea how good/bad Canada's National Post is, but I found this to be a rather logical opinion piece : https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-remarkably-slapdash-assassination-accusation https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-remarkably-slapdash...
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  Considering all the Snowden fanboyism and anti-CIA/NSA sentiments on HN and reddit I expected people to be more critical of a Five Eyes intelligence service saying "just trust us bro".
  - wendyshu 3y ago
    non sequitur
- glonq 3y ago
  I'd like to think that Canada has a clean enough reputation as decent global citizens that they've earned the benefit of the doubt on this one. India aspires to be a global superpower, and since there's few decent role models for how to do that they've decided that "reckless impunity and belligerence" is how it's done.
belltaco 3y ago
This has some historical backdrop around anti-India terrorists/freedom fighters operating in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182#Backgroun... >Air India Flight 182 was an Air India flight operating on the Montreal–London–Delhi–Bombay route. On 23 June 1985, it was operated using Boeing 747-237B registered VT-EFO. The aircraft suffered a catastrophic decompression mid-air en route from Montreal to London, at an altitude of 31,000 feet (9,400 m) over the Atlantic Ocean as a result of an explosion from a bomb planted by terrorists.[1][2] The remnants of the aircraft fell into the sea approximately 190 kilometres (120 miles) off the coast of Ireland, killing all 329 people aboard, including 268 Canadian citizens, 27 British citizens, and 24 Indian citizens.[3] The bombing of Air India Flight 182 is the worst terrorist attack in Canadian history, the deadliest aviation incident in the history of Air India, and was the world's deadliest act of aviation terrorism until the September 11 attacks in 2001 The alleged perpetuators were let go after a lengthy and costly trial in 2005. > Wiretaps by Canada’s intelligence agency had been erased before they could be used as evidence https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/canada/canada-india-sikh-killing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/canada/canada-india... >Canada's security agency destroyed wiretapping evidence on suspects in the 1985 Air India bombing as part of a "default" policy https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/erasing-wiretap-evidence-was-default-csis-policy-air-india-inquiry-told-1.631443 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/erasing-wiretap-evidence-was-... I guess the 268 Canadian citizens killed were all or mostly of South Asian origin.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  There might be a link between the groups responsible in a 1985 terrorist attack, and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by the Indian government on Canadian soil. But regardless of the allegations against the assassination victim, India would have no right to kill someone on Canadian soil, no matter the justifications it might have. Extraterritorial killings are not justifiable, and definitely not by events that occurred 38y ago. Hopefully this is all false and India wasn't involved in the murder of this person. But if true, it's inexcusable and paints India in a very bad light in term of international reputation.
pseudo0 3y ago
The sequence of events here was rather interesting. The Globe and Mail got the assassination story, and asked the government for comment. The government asked the Globe to hold the story for a week due to security concerns, and the Globe gave them 24 hours. Then Trudeau used that window to get ahead of the story by announcing it himself. He probably burned some bridges with journalists due to this stunt, and that would also explain the complete lack of evidence.
- neom 3y ago
  From what I've read in multiple news agencies is: Canadian diplomates state they have been working behind the scenes with Brits and the Americans for weeks to try and avoid a full on conflict with India, they opted not to get involved, then Trudeau met with Modi at the G20 and he brushed it off, Globe and Mail just pressed the issue further. Seems like a bit of a cluster f. https://youtu.be/wid6H7fiTgU?si=UTZIIdRSd371cZm9 https://youtu.be/wid6H7fiTgU?si=UTZIIdRSd371cZm9 https://youtu.be/1OWPVqZWK9g?si=ypJ3jX57sKbPIqSb https://youtu.be/1OWPVqZWK9g?si=ypJ3jX57sKbPIqSb
  - rg111 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - bananapub 3y ago
      what on earth? your theory is that the only reason that the PM of Canada is annoyed about a notionally allied country murdering someone*, in Canada, is because of parliamentary politics?
      - bananapub 3y ago
        the replies I got to this are the dumbest things I've ever seen on this website, including all the crypto- and NFT-idiots that have swarmed us over the last few years, jfc
      - unmole 3y ago
birdyrooster 3y ago
And the winners in this are China and Russia.
- jbm 3y ago
  The winners of this news coming out are the victims and family members of the murder victim, as the norm until now was to hide information. As normal people, we all win when governments hold less secrets. By sharing inconvenient information, I am more likely to trust the Trudeau Government, eventhough I don't agree with them on most things anymore.
  - justanotheratom 3y ago
    perhaps he can share evidence as well?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    The impact on the immediate victim and family members pales in comparison to the large scale impact this can have by driving a wedge between nations that ought to be friendly and allied. I don't wish India and Canada (and the West) to be unfriendly for one bit, as the result of this misalignment could be a more severe return to bloody Cold War era and its related proxy wars. Many more victims will derive from democracies not being on good terms and showing a strong unity. The only winner in this spat is whoever benefits from India and the West being driven apart.
    - ekam 3y ago
      If India didn't want this wedge they shouldn't have violated Canada's sovereignty over a local plumber that liked to volunteer at his place of worship
      - 3y ago
alephnerd 3y ago
What I'm curious about is who is the leaker. The Five Eyes and India have been communicating about this for a couple months now, but Trudeau publicly announced this after The Globe and Mail said they would publish a story about Foreign Interference. To preempt that Trudeau announced this in Parliament 30 minutes before that article was released [0] Generally, stuff at this level is highly sensitive and classified because it becomes a headache for everyone [1]. It doesn't make sense for the Canadian PMO to leak this despite G20 crap because it has no actual benefit during a non-election year nor does it make sense for the Indian PMO to leak this as this impacts Indian foreign relations. Was this a disgruntled CSIS analyst (like the China Election Interference leak), the Tories (they leaked the existence of a military base in Afghanistan used for anti-Taliban black ops), disgruntled NDP MPs (force an early election and win the Vancouver suburbs where they compete against the Liberals), or disgruntled Liberal MPs (force an early election and get a cabinet position or a more senior role)? [0] - https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-singh-nijjar-1.6971605 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-s... [1] - personal experience
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  Doesn't make much sense to me for anyone from the political side to leak this. No real upside. Especially not for the Conservatives. The Liberals are doing terribly in the polls right now, and Canadians, due to inertia and history, are resultingly giving the Conservatives a big uptick in poll numbers. This story does not help the Conservatives or any opposition parties in that it helps "change the channel" from the current issues that the government is doing poorly on.
- isignal 3y ago
  Is it a leak driving this? Trudeau apparently brought it up in the G20 summit so it wasn’t a last minute call. I would expect internal pressure from his political partners.
  - pradn 3y ago
    Biden is said to have mentioned this to Modi during the G20 as well. This was before the Trudeau announcement. The series of acrobatic leaps GP makes are something. https://www.ft.com/content/54721d57-fe1b-4d28-ab9b-a664f110770b https://www.ft.com/content/54721d57-fe1b-4d28-ab9b-a664f1107...
Scoundreller 3y ago
Sorta on-topic, some credit cards do have insurance coverage that lets you get an airfare refund if you applied for a visa and it was rejected. Not sure how this will go here for applications in progress. And what the airlines will do if their traffic takes a dive.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Scoundreller 3y ago
Actual article title is: “ India suspends visa service operations in Canada until further notice, says BLS International” This nuance is important as Indian has e-visas, so can’t tell what happens with those when the physical application centres are closed. This might not impact tourists so much as work/study visitors or others excluded from e-visas (like those with some Pakistani blood).
- ghoomketu 3y ago
  Sorry I had more than one tab open and originally meant to link to this article (1) but copy pasted the other url. Hence the discrepancy. (1) https://www.ft.com/content/9f9a1c55-1079-43a3-973c-11443e660b70 https://www.ft.com/content/9f9a1c55-1079-43a3-973c-11443e660...
lazyninja987 3y ago
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lazyninja987 3y ago
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vinni2 3y ago
Not sure if it means even e-visas are suspended. According to this https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html Canadians are still eligible for e-visa.
- nose 3y ago
  I'm not seeing Canada listed under "Countries/Nationalities who are eligible to avail eVisa"
elforce002 3y ago
I don’t have a dog in this fight but this is geopolitics. Unless you're absolutely sure, you cannot accuse other countries of planning and executing hits on people living in your country. Now, on the other hand, a person living abroad, advocating for basically secession and creation of a new country, with a massive following also living abroad (+700,000), get gunned down in a country with some of the most restrictive gun control laws and there's no suspect in custody? It's odd, to say the least. The world is getting more divided by the day. We're practically seeing in realtime the world is dividing itself into factions. Interesting times indeed.
- deanCommie 3y ago
  > advocating for basically secession and creation of a new country Let's be really precise. What you just said is absolutely something that everyone in a free democracy should be free to do as much as they want to their heart's content. The quirk here is that India and many Hindu nationals disagree that this is all he was doing, and they instead basically brand him as something closer to a terrorist responsible for murders. Who is right I don't know. These are very difficult things to figure out even decades later, never mind at the current moment in time in history. It is not in dispute that India has a complex and bloody history discriminating heavily against it's Sikh minority in Punjab. And it is not in dispute that the Khalistan movement is responsible for the murders of hundreds of civilians through bombings. None of this should enable the Indian government to be able to murder a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil without repercussions. But it's important to be precise that what you describe OUGHT to be legal, and what India accuses this man of doing OUGHT to not be. I dunno if any of this matters.
  - newusertoday 3y ago
    |It is not in dispute that India has a complex and bloody history discriminating heavily against it's Sikh minority in Punjab It is in dispute, what is not in dispute is killing of sikhs in delhi incited by party members of than ruling govt. Sikh's are not in minority in punjab they are in majority or do you mean punjab region itself is discriminated by federal govt? Also you need to make distinction between sikhs(followers of religion) and khalistani(people demanding separate statehood). In punjab there was genocide against minority(hindus) by khalistanis NOT sikhs(they were protectors and some even laid their lives against it) but it is inconvenient to talk about so doesn't get much mind share. I generally refrain talking about india because whenever i try to dig deeper it becomes more and more complex that i simply give up on finding what is true. What i do know is to treat popular narrative with skepticism.
teitoklien 3y ago
A lot of people are saying that these accusations against India must be true, and why would Canada lie, it has no benefit from lying. The Trudeau government operates significantly differently than previous administrations, they have used their national security advisor and CSIS before to lie about India to save their prime minister from embarrassment and then get caught red handed for making false accusations. An example incident around 2018-2019 Canadian Prime Minister on his visit to India in 2018 had invited a known terrorist in hiding to his gala, who was shown to even take a photograph with his wife, the first lady at that event [0] Then after this incident blew up back then, the national security advisor of Canada, CSIS and the Canadian Prime Minister claimed that it was rogue elements in the Indian government who brought the criminal to the gala to embarass Canada [1] Only for a liberal mp from Prime Minister’s own party admitting they were the ones who invited the known fugitive who was facing charges on attempted murder against Indian beauracrats and journalists. [2][3] It was a disaster and showed how the current prime minister likes to use public services to save his face and make false accusation against other governments and nations. The Minister even had to resign later for this. I’ve added two attributions for last point [2] and [3] a canadian and a indian media source as it wasnt widely publicised in Canada (considering how embarrassing it was for them) but was widely shown in India I linked only canadian sources and newspapers to give them the benefit of the doubt. I’ve also found the current canadian administration with how unprofessional they are, their prime minister was caught publicly insulting trump and making jokes about him at a NATO summit (no matter what you think of trump, it is unprofessional and bad, considering canada was back then negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with america back then), he has lied about India accusing them of serious things before then after getting caught about it, put it all under the bus. He has soured relationships with a lot of countries, China, India, USA (under Trump), publicly tried to lecture Italy (no matter what your opinions are on that), got shamed at EU parliament during his speech. [0](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time...) [1](https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ) [2](https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56 https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56) [3](https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw)
- foobiekr 3y ago
gsky 3y ago
It seems he's a terrorist but English media is hiding his crimal record but why? Is the media preparing the ground for a war against India? Reminds me pre Iraq days.
- deleted 3y ago
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- throwaway12asd 3y ago
  This news article has a video of Hardeep Nijjar firing AK47 in a training camp in Canada. https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-slain-khalistan-terrorist-hardeep-nijjar-brazenly-firing-illegal-ak-series-rifle-in-canada-training-camp-13145632.html https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-slain-khalistan-terror...
  - kjsingh 3y ago
    this is obviously not him
deleted 3y ago
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throwaway12asd 3y ago
1. Karima Baloch, a dissident Pakistani human rights activist living in exile in Canada, was found dead in a Toronto river in 2020. She was the second Pakistani dissident from Balochistan living in exile to be found dead that year (other person was found dead in a river in Sweden). No one accused any country for these deaths. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/karima-baloch-pakistani-human-rights-activist-found-dead-in-canada https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/karima-baloch-... 2. Air India flight was blown up mid air killing 329 people abroad. Some of the witnesses were murdered, and finally only one person was convicted. Call recordings that the authorities had against the terrorists disappeared. He is now living in Canada after 15 years in jail. They had plans to bomb another plane, but it detonated in advance killing two employees in Japan since they didn't take into account DST. Indian agencies had warned Canada about attacks of this nature. Justin Trudeau's father was the prime minister when this happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 3. When the farmer's protest occurred in India, Justin Trudeau came in support of the protesters. Then when the Canadian truckers protested, they were forcibly removed. https://www.reuters.com/article/india-canada/india-formally-protests-to-canada-over-trudeau-remarks-on-farm-protests-idUSKBN28E1AD https://www.reuters.com/article/india-canada/india-formally-...
mightymosquito 3y ago
CBC just published an article[0] about Canada having some evidence about this basis some diplomatic documents. Curious how this affects things. [0] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-tr...
yieldcrv 3y ago
To me this is all weird, I dont really understand the reactions If a country accused my country of an extrajudicial killing, we’d say “yeah, don't fuck up”, any citizen reading would chuckle, slightly smirk, and go about their day
- kaycey2022 3y ago
  The defensiveness is justified because off late the Western media has run a number of articles on India, noting autocratic backsliding and what not, with no evidence and just opinions. India let those slide, and those voices have only got louder. They are not going to let this one go with no answer. To a western nation this makes no difference. But to a country that is trying to show the world that it is a responsible member in the globe, these kind of facts free accusations are pretty damaging. The problem with India is the attitude of sheer apathy. They should have countered the earlier remarks as well, then maybe Trudeau would have thought twice before making these charges as casually as he did. Maybe he would have spent more effort convincing the Indian counterparts why he thought the killers were linked to the government.
known 3y ago
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136 points by vinni2 3y ago

Does Canada condemn the assassination of Bin Laden by the Americans on Pakistani soil ?

The defensiveness and overreaction of India suggests that something is amiss. Why not just either 1) work with Canada to convince them they didn’t do it, or 2) just let it go?

donbox 3y ago
That goes for Canada too, what was the need to go public and that too without presenting any evidence.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  It seems unlikely to be false and made up, it's not like Canada goes about saying stuff like this, historically. At the same time it's not hard to imagine a case where revealing the evidence/sources would compromise the capabilities/assets used come up with this conclusion. Perhaps the early announcement is a misstep from the Canadian PM, but I really doubt that they would make this stuff up. They have very little to gain by coming out with this, if untrue, and a lot to lose. And if the allegations are true, Canada still is probably in an unenviable position of not wanting to come stir problem unnecessarily, but also not being able to let it slide and be seen as a push over. Extraterritorial killings by foreign nations is a big deal, and being soft on this is opening the door to a whole lot of problems.
  - stronglikedan 3y ago
    > it's not like Canada goes about saying stuff like this, historically Almost nothing Trudeau is doing could be considered historic.
    - momirlan 3y ago
      historically low, it is.
  - neom 3y ago
    Somewhat reminds me of the situation with Meng Wanzhou. Canada seems to end up with high profile folks with ties to other countries that then put Canada in a difficult position. China is still angry at Canada over the Meng Wanzhou situation (among other things). Xi Jinping took a swipe at Trudeau in front of the Camera recently, Modi is now telling me to f'off. Politics aside, say what you will about Justin, sure as heck wouldn't want to be him.
  - teitoklien 3y ago
    I would be weary of trusting the current Canadian prime minister CSIS and Canadian NSA (Canadian Intelligence Services) overall have a good reputation but have been mismanaged recently and also have been politicised and made to lie about events An example incident around 2018-2019 Canadian Prime Minister on his visit to India in 2018 had invited a known terrorist in hiding to his gala, who was shown to even take a photograph with his wife, the first lady at that event [0] Then after this incident blew up back then, the national security advisor of Canada, CSIS and the Canadian Prime Minister claimed that it was rogue elements in the Indian government who brought the criminal to the gala to embarass Canada [1] Only for a liberal mp from Prime Minister’s own party admitting they were the ones who invited the known fugitive who was facing charges on attempted murder against Indian beauracrats and journalists. [2][3] It was a disaster and showed how the current prime minister likes to use public services to save his face and make false accusation against other governments and nations. The Minister even had to resign later for this. I’ve added two attributions for last point [2] and [3] a canadian and a indian media source as it wasnt widely publicised in Canada (considering how embarrassing it was for them) but was widely shown in India I linked only canadian sources and newspapers to give them the benefit of the doubt. [0](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-timeline-of-events-in-the-jaspal-atwal-affair https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time...) [1](https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ) [2](https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56 https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56) [3](https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw)
- thrusong 3y ago
  Apparently Robert Fife told the PMO they were going to run this. The government asked them to hold off for a week, and then The Globe and Mail said "no, we're running it in 24 hours."
- martin8412 3y ago
  The press was about to make it public.
mortureb 3y ago
Generally being amicable in situations like this where you are accused of serious issues is viewed as insulting. I’m not saying they didn’t do it, I’m just saying that even if they didn’t they wouldn’t take kindly to it just being thrown in their face.
pratikss 3y ago
Do you expect for someone to not be defensive after you accuse them of murder? And then how can you ask them to investigate themselves? In civilized countries false accusation is considered criminal offense. Accusation comes after evidence, not before or during investigation.
michael1999 3y ago
Because they did it, and resent being called on it. The USA reserves the right to assassinate any one, any where, at any time as long as someone with signing authority calls them a terrorist. The Russians have made a game of it with their exotic mix of radioactive poisons and throwing people out of windows. The current nationalist government of India is demanding these same prerogatives to match their self-conception of India and status as a major power. Or (only slightly) more charitably: India would have been happy to keen this quiet. But once Canada announced this, India had to respond. Their voters respond well to muscular gestures, so something flashy like a visa ban demonstrates their toughness. Canada had already generating some bad publicity in India, and beating up on us for a little bit will probably make number go up.
- footlose_3815 3y ago
  Russia doesn't assasinate terrorists though, they simply murder dissenters. The oligarchy has lots of enemies.
  - areyousure 3y ago
    No comment on the broader claims of this comment, but "terrorists" are also a targeted group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelimkhan_Khangoshvili https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelimkhan_Khangoshvili
  - DoItToMe81 3y ago
    They do, when they view themselves as in immediate danger. They killed Ibn Al-Khattab by bribing his courier into delivering him a letter laced with nerve agent.
- yumraj 3y ago
  > Because they did it, and resent being called on it. based on what evidence??
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
yumraj 3y ago
So India should just accept being called a murderer without evidence, and expulsion of its diplomat as well as Trudeau’s clear support to Khalistanis in Canada. I don’t think so. The onus is on Canada to provide evidence, not on India. Remember, innocent until proven guilty - or would you like that legal principal to be changed? Secondly, I’ll say that silence is an admission of guilt. India is daring Trudeau to show evidence or retract.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  Innocent until proven guilty isn't a legal concept that applies to international relations, it is a colloquial phrase that clarifies rights in certain criminal cases. But also, "silence is an admission of guilt" is in direct contradiction to innocent until proven guilty. There are a variety of reasons why Canada might not provide proof to your satisfaction. One might be that it would expose intelligence channels that they are trying to keep alive (literally, in some cases). It has also only been a few days, and there is likely some pretty serious maneuvering on both sides where withholding information is important. I can also assure you that most Canadians, including the PM do not care in particular about "Khalistanis", or really know what that means in the context of Indian politics. Before this week, I would be surprised if most Canadians knew there was a rift between Hindus and Sikhs Canada does need to provide proof, but in Canadian politics you simply don't make an announcement like this as the PM without strong evidence.
  - yumraj 3y ago
    So, I'm assuming that tomorrow Indian PM can make a claim that Canadian agents (CSIS?) was behind it and not provide any evidence. That'll be equivalent and acceptable right? India has provided ample evidence including via Interpol (whatever the process is called, red something notice or whatever) regarding various Khalistanis and Canada hasn't acted. Culprits from Air India bombing in the 80s were acquitted since Canadian intelligence had decided to erase evidence. Just look at the videos of the Gurudwara in question, it has posters calling for assassination of Indian diplomats. Graffiti was painted in Hindu temples in Canada. Etc. Etc. It is very clear that Canadian governments and politicians have a soft spot for Khalistanis since they constitute a sizeable vote bank. I believe NDP leader is also a Khalistan sympathizer, has to be if he wants Sikh votes in Canada. Having said that, I still believe that this is not a rift between Hindus and Sikhs. This is limited to a vocal, but powerful, minority of Sikh diaspora. Khalistan is a non-issue within India, but can flare up which is why governments need to be careful. Edit: I have no idea how good/bad Canada's National Post is, but I found this to be a rather logical opinion piece : https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-remarkably-slapdash-assassination-accusation https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-remarkably-slapdash...
0xDEF 3y ago
Considering all the Snowden fanboyism and anti-CIA/NSA sentiments on HN and reddit I expected people to be more critical of a Five Eyes intelligence service saying "just trust us bro".
- wendyshu 3y ago
  non sequitur
glonq 3y ago
I'd like to think that Canada has a clean enough reputation as decent global citizens that they've earned the benefit of the doubt on this one. India aspires to be a global superpower, and since there's few decent role models for how to do that they've decided that "reckless impunity and belligerence" is how it's done.

belltaco 3y ago

This has some historical backdrop around anti-India terrorists/freedom fighters operating in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182#Backgroun... >Air India Flight 182 was an Air India flight operating on the Montreal–London–Delhi–Bombay route. On 23 June 1985, it was operated using Boeing 747-237B registered VT-EFO. The aircraft suffered a catastrophic decompression mid-air en route from Montreal to London, at an altitude of 31,000 feet (9,400 m) over the Atlantic Ocean as a result of an explosion from a bomb planted by terrorists.[1][2] The remnants of the aircraft fell into the sea approximately 190 kilometres (120 miles) off the coast of Ireland, killing all 329 people aboard, including 268 Canadian citizens, 27 British citizens, and 24 Indian citizens.[3] The bombing of Air India Flight 182 is the worst terrorist attack in Canadian history, the deadliest aviation incident in the history of Air India, and was the world's deadliest act of aviation terrorism until the September 11 attacks in 2001 The alleged perpetuators were let go after a lengthy and costly trial in 2005. > Wiretaps by Canada’s intelligence agency had been erased before they could be used as evidence https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/canada/canada-india-sikh-killing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/canada/canada-india... >Canada's security agency destroyed wiretapping evidence on suspects in the 1985 Air India bombing as part of a "default" policy https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/erasing-wiretap-evidence-was-default-csis-policy-air-india-inquiry-told-1.631443 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/erasing-wiretap-evidence-was-... I guess the 268 Canadian citizens killed were all or mostly of South Asian origin.

AYBABTME 3y ago
There might be a link between the groups responsible in a 1985 terrorist attack, and 38y later someone related to the movement being (allegedly) assassinated by the Indian government on Canadian soil. But regardless of the allegations against the assassination victim, India would have no right to kill someone on Canadian soil, no matter the justifications it might have. Extraterritorial killings are not justifiable, and definitely not by events that occurred 38y ago. Hopefully this is all false and India wasn't involved in the murder of this person. But if true, it's inexcusable and paints India in a very bad light in term of international reputation.

pseudo0 3y ago

The sequence of events here was rather interesting. The Globe and Mail got the assassination story, and asked the government for comment. The government asked the Globe to hold the story for a week due to security concerns, and the Globe gave them 24 hours. Then Trudeau used that window to get ahead of the story by announcing it himself. He probably burned some bridges with journalists due to this stunt, and that would also explain the complete lack of evidence.

neom 3y ago
From what I've read in multiple news agencies is: Canadian diplomates state they have been working behind the scenes with Brits and the Americans for weeks to try and avoid a full on conflict with India, they opted not to get involved, then Trudeau met with Modi at the G20 and he brushed it off, Globe and Mail just pressed the issue further. Seems like a bit of a cluster f. https://youtu.be/wid6H7fiTgU?si=UTZIIdRSd371cZm9 https://youtu.be/wid6H7fiTgU?si=UTZIIdRSd371cZm9 https://youtu.be/1OWPVqZWK9g?si=ypJ3jX57sKbPIqSb https://youtu.be/1OWPVqZWK9g?si=ypJ3jX57sKbPIqSb
- rg111 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bananapub 3y ago
    what on earth? your theory is that the only reason that the PM of Canada is annoyed about a notionally allied country murdering someone*, in Canada, is because of parliamentary politics?
    - bananapub 3y ago
      the replies I got to this are the dumbest things I've ever seen on this website, including all the crypto- and NFT-idiots that have swarmed us over the last few years, jfc
    - unmole 3y ago

birdyrooster 3y ago

And the winners in this are China and Russia.

jbm 3y ago
The winners of this news coming out are the victims and family members of the murder victim, as the norm until now was to hide information. As normal people, we all win when governments hold less secrets. By sharing inconvenient information, I am more likely to trust the Trudeau Government, eventhough I don't agree with them on most things anymore.
- justanotheratom 3y ago
  perhaps he can share evidence as well?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  The impact on the immediate victim and family members pales in comparison to the large scale impact this can have by driving a wedge between nations that ought to be friendly and allied. I don't wish India and Canada (and the West) to be unfriendly for one bit, as the result of this misalignment could be a more severe return to bloody Cold War era and its related proxy wars. Many more victims will derive from democracies not being on good terms and showing a strong unity. The only winner in this spat is whoever benefits from India and the West being driven apart.
  - ekam 3y ago
    If India didn't want this wedge they shouldn't have violated Canada's sovereignty over a local plumber that liked to volunteer at his place of worship
    - 3y ago

alephnerd 3y ago

What I'm curious about is who is the leaker. The Five Eyes and India have been communicating about this for a couple months now, but Trudeau publicly announced this after The Globe and Mail said they would publish a story about Foreign Interference. To preempt that Trudeau announced this in Parliament 30 minutes before that article was released [0] Generally, stuff at this level is highly sensitive and classified because it becomes a headache for everyone [1]. It doesn't make sense for the Canadian PMO to leak this despite G20 crap because it has no actual benefit during a non-election year nor does it make sense for the Indian PMO to leak this as this impacts Indian foreign relations. Was this a disgruntled CSIS analyst (like the China Election Interference leak), the Tories (they leaked the existence of a military base in Afghanistan used for anti-Taliban black ops), disgruntled NDP MPs (force an early election and win the Vancouver suburbs where they compete against the Liberals), or disgruntled Liberal MPs (force an early election and get a cabinet position or a more senior role)? [0] - https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-singh-nijjar-1.6971605 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-s... [1] - personal experience

Tiktaalik 3y ago
Doesn't make much sense to me for anyone from the political side to leak this. No real upside. Especially not for the Conservatives. The Liberals are doing terribly in the polls right now, and Canadians, due to inertia and history, are resultingly giving the Conservatives a big uptick in poll numbers. This story does not help the Conservatives or any opposition parties in that it helps "change the channel" from the current issues that the government is doing poorly on.
isignal 3y ago
Is it a leak driving this? Trudeau apparently brought it up in the G20 summit so it wasn’t a last minute call. I would expect internal pressure from his political partners.
- pradn 3y ago
  Biden is said to have mentioned this to Modi during the G20 as well. This was before the Trudeau announcement. The series of acrobatic leaps GP makes are something. https://www.ft.com/content/54721d57-fe1b-4d28-ab9b-a664f110770b https://www.ft.com/content/54721d57-fe1b-4d28-ab9b-a664f1107...

Scoundreller 3y ago

Sorta on-topic, some credit cards do have insurance coverage that lets you get an airfare refund if you applied for a visa and it was rejected. Not sure how this will go here for applications in progress. And what the airlines will do if their traffic takes a dive.

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Scoundreller 3y ago

Actual article title is: “ India suspends visa service operations in Canada until further notice, says BLS International” This nuance is important as Indian has e-visas, so can’t tell what happens with those when the physical application centres are closed. This might not impact tourists so much as work/study visitors or others excluded from e-visas (like those with some Pakistani blood).

ghoomketu 3y ago
Sorry I had more than one tab open and originally meant to link to this article (1) but copy pasted the other url. Hence the discrepancy. (1) https://www.ft.com/content/9f9a1c55-1079-43a3-973c-11443e660b70 https://www.ft.com/content/9f9a1c55-1079-43a3-973c-11443e660...

lazyninja987 3y ago

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lazyninja987 3y ago

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vinni2 3y ago

Not sure if it means even e-visas are suspended. According to this https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html Canadians are still eligible for e-visa.

nose 3y ago
I'm not seeing Canada listed under "Countries/Nationalities who are eligible to avail eVisa"

elforce002 3y ago

I don’t have a dog in this fight but this is geopolitics. Unless you're absolutely sure, you cannot accuse other countries of planning and executing hits on people living in your country. Now, on the other hand, a person living abroad, advocating for basically secession and creation of a new country, with a massive following also living abroad (+700,000), get gunned down in a country with some of the most restrictive gun control laws and there's no suspect in custody? It's odd, to say the least. The world is getting more divided by the day. We're practically seeing in realtime the world is dividing itself into factions. Interesting times indeed.

deanCommie 3y ago
> advocating for basically secession and creation of a new country Let's be really precise. What you just said is absolutely something that everyone in a free democracy should be free to do as much as they want to their heart's content. The quirk here is that India and many Hindu nationals disagree that this is all he was doing, and they instead basically brand him as something closer to a terrorist responsible for murders. Who is right I don't know. These are very difficult things to figure out even decades later, never mind at the current moment in time in history. It is not in dispute that India has a complex and bloody history discriminating heavily against it's Sikh minority in Punjab. And it is not in dispute that the Khalistan movement is responsible for the murders of hundreds of civilians through bombings. None of this should enable the Indian government to be able to murder a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil without repercussions. But it's important to be precise that what you describe OUGHT to be legal, and what India accuses this man of doing OUGHT to not be. I dunno if any of this matters.
- newusertoday 3y ago
  |It is not in dispute that India has a complex and bloody history discriminating heavily against it's Sikh minority in Punjab It is in dispute, what is not in dispute is killing of sikhs in delhi incited by party members of than ruling govt. Sikh's are not in minority in punjab they are in majority or do you mean punjab region itself is discriminated by federal govt? Also you need to make distinction between sikhs(followers of religion) and khalistani(people demanding separate statehood). In punjab there was genocide against minority(hindus) by khalistanis NOT sikhs(they were protectors and some even laid their lives against it) but it is inconvenient to talk about so doesn't get much mind share. I generally refrain talking about india because whenever i try to dig deeper it becomes more and more complex that i simply give up on finding what is true. What i do know is to treat popular narrative with skepticism.

teitoklien 3y ago

A lot of people are saying that these accusations against India must be true, and why would Canada lie, it has no benefit from lying. The Trudeau government operates significantly differently than previous administrations, they have used their national security advisor and CSIS before to lie about India to save their prime minister from embarrassment and then get caught red handed for making false accusations. An example incident around 2018-2019 Canadian Prime Minister on his visit to India in 2018 had invited a known terrorist in hiding to his gala, who was shown to even take a photograph with his wife, the first lady at that event [0] Then after this incident blew up back then, the national security advisor of Canada, CSIS and the Canadian Prime Minister claimed that it was rogue elements in the Indian government who brought the criminal to the gala to embarass Canada [1] Only for a liberal mp from Prime Minister’s own party admitting they were the ones who invited the known fugitive who was facing charges on attempted murder against Indian beauracrats and journalists. [2][3] It was a disaster and showed how the current prime minister likes to use public services to save his face and make false accusation against other governments and nations. The Minister even had to resign later for this. I’ve added two attributions for last point [2] and [3] a canadian and a indian media source as it wasnt widely publicised in Canada (considering how embarrassing it was for them) but was widely shown in India I linked only canadian sources and newspapers to give them the benefit of the doubt. I’ve also found the current canadian administration with how unprofessional they are, their prime minister was caught publicly insulting trump and making jokes about him at a NATO summit (no matter what you think of trump, it is unprofessional and bad, considering canada was back then negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with america back then), he has lied about India accusing them of serious things before then after getting caught about it, put it all under the bus. He has soured relationships with a lot of countries, China, India, USA (under Trump), publicly tried to lecture Italy (no matter what your opinions are on that), got shamed at EU parliament during his speech. [0](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/a-time...) [1](https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ https://youtu.be/FyTFBtLqO9U?si=1CYifRlmJNy9woLJ) [2](https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56 https://youtu.be/n72L1V1NzzQ?si=XNbt-IfGZGqYFm56) [3](https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw https://youtu.be/o0rtEQc96XE?si=goYPMQ8wzAwyN2qw)

foobiekr 3y ago

gsky 3y ago

It seems he's a terrorist but English media is hiding his crimal record but why? Is the media preparing the ground for a war against India? Reminds me pre Iraq days.

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throwaway12asd 3y ago
This news article has a video of Hardeep Nijjar firing AK47 in a training camp in Canada. https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-slain-khalistan-terrorist-hardeep-nijjar-brazenly-firing-illegal-ak-series-rifle-in-canada-training-camp-13145632.html https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-slain-khalistan-terror...
- kjsingh 3y ago
  this is obviously not him

deleted 3y ago

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throwaway12asd 3y ago

1. Karima Baloch, a dissident Pakistani human rights activist living in exile in Canada, was found dead in a Toronto river in 2020. She was the second Pakistani dissident from Balochistan living in exile to be found dead that year (other person was found dead in a river in Sweden). No one accused any country for these deaths. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/karima-baloch-pakistani-human-rights-activist-found-dead-in-canada https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/karima-baloch-... 2. Air India flight was blown up mid air killing 329 people abroad. Some of the witnesses were murdered, and finally only one person was convicted. Call recordings that the authorities had against the terrorists disappeared. He is now living in Canada after 15 years in jail. They had plans to bomb another plane, but it detonated in advance killing two employees in Japan since they didn't take into account DST. Indian agencies had warned Canada about attacks of this nature. Justin Trudeau's father was the prime minister when this happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 3. When the farmer's protest occurred in India, Justin Trudeau came in support of the protesters. Then when the Canadian truckers protested, they were forcibly removed. https://www.reuters.com/article/india-canada/india-formally-protests-to-canada-over-trudeau-remarks-on-farm-protests-idUSKBN28E1AD https://www.reuters.com/article/india-canada/india-formally-...

mightymosquito 3y ago

CBC just published an article[0] about Canada having some evidence about this basis some diplomatic documents. Curious how this affects things. [0] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-tr...

yieldcrv 3y ago

To me this is all weird, I dont really understand the reactions If a country accused my country of an extrajudicial killing, we’d say “yeah, don't fuck up”, any citizen reading would chuckle, slightly smirk, and go about their day

kaycey2022 3y ago
The defensiveness is justified because off late the Western media has run a number of articles on India, noting autocratic backsliding and what not, with no evidence and just opinions. India let those slide, and those voices have only got louder. They are not going to let this one go with no answer. To a western nation this makes no difference. But to a country that is trying to show the world that it is a responsible member in the globe, these kind of facts free accusations are pretty damaging. The problem with India is the attitude of sheer apathy. They should have countered the earlier remarks as well, then maybe Trudeau would have thought twice before making these charges as casually as he did. Maybe he would have spent more effort convincing the Indian counterparts why he thought the killers were linked to the government.

known 3y ago

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