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Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always
by greatpostman 3y ago
Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps
- api 3y agoThey also can’t easily quit since if you lose sponsorship you may have to return to your country of origin. It’s not “confiscating passports” level but it’s definitely exploitative.
- firtoz 3y agoIt happens in the UK too. For example a friend of mine was taken advantage of by the boss who was not hesitant at all to remind her that her existence in the country depended on his approval; so she had to do long hours with unreasonable tasks for little pay.
- fiforpg 3y agoWhy "not supposed" to say out loud? Sounds simply as a problem of the only X on a team of Ys. Cultural (and other) differences can be hard, it is just a fact of life. Think of it as being in the shoes of a lonely non-American in the country of Americans, if that is any consolation.
- eastbound 3y agoTherefore you are saying that having diversity leads to bullying and that you’re ok with that. It’s always the goal, after all.
- gnatman 3y agoThat’s actually the opposite of what they’re saying. Lack of diversity leads to bullying.
- yCombLinks 3y agoIn corporate and academic America diversity unofficially means not majority white. Further, you're not supposed to acknowledge any sort of ingroup bias of any nonwhite racial group
- pfannkuchen 3y agoIt isn’t the “opposite” because this isn’t a binary situation. There is a spectrum. If the group members were all from the same place it wouldn’t be an issue either. If everyone is from different places it isn’t an issue. If many are from one place and some aren’t, then it is an issue.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- whiddershins 3y agoThe difference is, he presumably is in America.
- rubyfan 3y agoProbably happens the other way too.
- pavlov 3y agoYes, the grandparent comment also describes the common immigrant experience on a team where the others are native speakers of the work language. It’s not intentional prejudice, but just the wrong kind of accent can leave you excluded because the others start to feel that verbal communication is “harder” with you around.
- the_svd_doctor 3y agoIs that really related to h1b or other (cultural?) differences?
- afavour 3y agoIt’s not as if it’s directly attributable to an H1B but if a group has eight Indian people on it chances are they’ll converse in their native language from time to time and it’s quite possible they’ll have a group chat and a close relationship (given their shared similar circumstances). Not difficult to see how an outsider might feel excluded. That said, that same group often faces exclusion in the wider company (and coming together is often in reaction to that), so it’s kind of miserable for everyone.
- jakderrida 3y agoTo be honest, I'm actually in favor of them not needlessly struggling to communicate with each other in broken English. I was once in an Econ class with a Chinese professor that spoke mandarin natively. As did a slim majority of the class. I recall him trying to explain something to the other mandarin-speakers and struggling before squeezing in like a 4 second mandarin quip and the response was a wave of "eureka!" across the other ones. Like he just somehow squeezed the past 40 minutes into 4 seconds and they all finally understood it completely. Astonishingly, really.
- ajmurmann 3y ago"chances are they’ll converse in their native language from time to time" This needs to be a big No No. Everyone should speak the language everyone else can understand in the workplace at all times. I natively speak German, but I never speak German at work even when I temporarily was only working with someone visiting from Germany. It would have been rude to everyone around us. But then I'm also weird in that I dislike speaking my native language...
- dotnet00 3y agoAgreed, I'm Indian and thus often it is the case that other Indians try to speak with me in Hindi, but I end up having to insist on English in certain contexts. It's unnecessarily rude and exclusionary towards others to speak a language others cannot understand in an environment where they have an interest in participating. All it does is form cliques and encourages toxic dynamics to form. But on the other hand, I previously encountered the opinion that people who insist on speaking in English (especially without the "quirks" and accent of Indian English) despite being able to do Hindi are just trying to be pretentious.
- intelVISA 3y ago[flagged]
- chii 3y ago> H1B at big tech is modern slavery that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-migrant-workers-in-qatar/ https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m...), where their passports are confiscated, etc. H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signed up. The losers in the situation are the local workers who expect to be paid higher, but is out-competed by these foreign workers.
- afavour 3y ago“Modern slavery” is definitely an exaggeration but many are also not quite so free to quit. The H1B is a “dual intent” visa, meaning you can apply for permanent residency while you have it. But you must maintain your H1B the entire time, which can be a decade or more for folks from places like India. You can transfer an H1B but it’s not easy and if you quit your job you must line another one up in 60 days or say goodbye to the life you’ve built yourself in the US. Some employers are happy to take advantage of this.
- znpy 3y agoAs long as they’re able to switch job and can leave the states (if they want to) I don’t think that the “slavery” word applies at all. And I’m saying this because there are places like Dubai where you very often get your passport taken on arrival, can’t leave the state and can’t really go work somewhere else. There is a lot more to say, but that qualifies as “modern slavery”.
- maccard 3y agoYou're not really free to leave if you have to leave the country if you don't have a job lined up immediately.
- candiodari 3y agoOh man, but you're not missing out, you're alienating, you're not excluded from back channels ... you're being targeted for being expensive.
- jofi1 3y agoBeing the odd one out also makes you a target for things like PIP quotas. It's very disturbing to watch, especially as managers try to justify it with phony evidence to save their own.
- greatpostman 3y agoHappens all the time
- jofi1 3y agoYeah it's absolutely demoralizing and made me leave some teams. Have very little faith in performance reviews and role guidelines
- chandler767 3y agoI’ve been seeing this a lot recently.
- supportengineer 3y agoI am in the situation myself currently
- burnerburnson 3y agoI'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also, I'd call into question the credibility of this article. Google pays H1Bs the same as Americans as far as I know. What Google is doing is hiring a large number of engineers in India. These people I assume are paid much less than American engineers.
- totetsu 3y agoAs someone with some exposure to Chinese characters as a Japanese speaker, I’ve had the please to casually glance a WeChat group and realize some of the back channel Chinese from my teammates was joking about trying to get me fired. (Edit: my also Chinese manager dealt with it very well and that person left the company after some time)
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y agoI have a completely different experience. My (Indian) manager told me I couldn't be let go because it would make the team entirely Indian :) Apart from that, I found it much easier to work with H1B colleagues than with entitled and full of ego "native" Americans.
- rayiner 3y agoYeah, the ego and entitlement of people living in their native country who can’t be sent back at a moment’s notice.
- vacuity 3y agoI don't think the risk of being sent back (or lack thereof) is important for how to treat other people. To put it crudely, assholes will be assholes no matter where they come from.
- manuelabeledo 3y agoI guess that the question here is, are they hired workers or outsourced?
- pedrosorio 3y agoThe only scenario where this makes sense is if the "all H1B team" is all from the same country / speaks the same language. The issue is not "all H1B", it's the lack of diversity in the team.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago[flagged]
- enlightenedfool 3y agoI guess it’s not a good time to be a white male. I’m not one but it’s hard to ignore when in plain slight.
- rayiner 3y agoThe important thing to realize is that “white” doesn’t mean everyone with “white” skin. Middle class kids from Ohio are “white,” and these race conscious programs and elimination of meritocracy hurts them. But the second or third generation Harvard folks aren’t functionally “white,” regardless of their skin color. Those folks will learn, through private schools and social capital, how to end up in top positions in this new economic structure, while they are joining in complaining about “white” people.
- NhanH 3y ago> But the second or third generation Harvard folks aren’t functionally “white,” regardless of their skin color. Genuine question, does this applies even when they are “white” (Caucasian white)? Why is that or is there a subtext I am missing?
- rayiner 3y agoYes, because race is a social construct. “White” encompasses many unrelated groups, from descendants of people on the Mayflower to Italian immigrants. But when elite Yankees complain about “white” people, they don’t really mean themselves, they mean southern or Midwestern whites. Essentially, they’re “post white.” Post-whites will do fine under the new system, because they have the cultural capital to navigate the new rules. They know how to write a “diversity statement” that gets them credit for some human rights whatever even though they trace their ancestry to Dutch colonists in New York. But the kids in Ohio won’t have that cultural capital and social connections. They are still “white.”
- cactusfrog 3y agoI’ve been the only US citizen on a team and now I am on a team with exclusively white, remote employees. I’ve watched my current team build the worst systems I’ve ever seen while constantly congregating themselves.
- ecf 3y agoThe person you’re replying to didn’t mention performance at all, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply.
- isaacremuant 3y agoHe's trying to defend immigrants without understanding that that BS political correctness means immigrants get exploited to hell and back while pretending "to care for immigration". Companies largely don't care about the environment or immigration. They care about the right branding while maximizing profits and they have no qualms exploiting people. Or laying then off if they don't toe the line (RTO being a grand example)
- AbrahamParangi 3y ago"while constantly congregating themselves" you meant a different word here but I can't for the life of me figure out which one
- wildpeaks 3y agoperhaps "congratulating" ?
- pfannkuchen 3y agoSocial posturing in certain cultures is very different from Euro rooted cultures in a way that you don’t notice until you are immersed in it for awhile. I personally found this aspect extremely hard to work with, and it seems to guide communication to a surprising degree.
- rayiner 3y agoSay what you want—what do you think these H1B teams are saying about the Americans?
- MauroIksem 3y agoI'm sure that's how they feel too.
- onetimeusename 3y agoMy ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citizenship but they do all the work. It's not a healthy way to view this country or their coworkers. They take the "nation of immigrants" line too far and act as if their American coworkers are basically their inferiors but who were lucky enough to happen to have citizenship. I always tried to provide a different perspective to no avail.
- donnie12345 3y agoLol really? This a big news to me.
- donnie12345 3y agoHer ethnicity ? If you don't mind
- onetimeusename 3y agoShe's Indian.
- BlackJeffBezos 3y ago[flagged]
- BlackJeffBezos 3y ago[flagged]
- donnie12345 3y ago[flagged]
- costanzaDynasty 3y agoMy last couple of jobs(non tech) almost everyone I talked to on a daily basis was ESL. It was great as an introvert because they could talk around me and about me while I kept to myself. Now Im in tech with all English speakers there's no escape from the slights. Id love to be only a team of ESL people, because now it's like highshcool. The only time they talk to me now is for baiting too cute by half questions and comments.
- squalo 3y agoTry being a highly skilled tech worker who happens to be female and getting a tech job when the screeners are all H1B guys.