29 ms·

Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

225 points by edward 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
2143 3y ago
As you mentioned American and Canadian visa has a longer duration, so visa renewal is something you need to worry about only once in 10 years or so. For Europe, I think (not sure) if you travel there frequently, you are eligible for a longer-duration multiple-entry visa [1] (the linked website is NOT an official government website). I know somebody with such a type of visa. [1] https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/
- amirs 3y ago
  For the US you sometimes might get a visa that's valid only for a year, and in some extreme cases I've seen people receive visas for 30 days surrounding a specific event they were traveling for .
  - ido 3y ago
    What does this depend on? I (Israeli citizen) always got 10 year visas to the US (now on my 3rd one).
    - j16sdiz 3y ago
      I think B1/B2 visa last of 10 years. I guess the 30 Days visa are J visa ?
      - vient 3y ago
        I think 10 years visas are for some "friendly" countries, others get 3 year visas if no 221g procedure was involved.
        unmole 3y ago
        It's based on a subjective risk assessment. For example, middle aged Indians are usually issued 10 year visas to visit their children in the US.
      - fdgjgbdfhgb 3y ago
        I (Brazilian) had to get a J1 for a 3-month internship despite having a B1, my sister had a 6-month J1 for another exchange, so I guess it can vary
        vinay_ys 3y ago
        If it is work or education of any kind (internship falls into that bucket I guess), then B1/B2 won't work.
    - tooltower 3y ago
      Visa type is also a factor. F1 and H1B frequently get capped to just 1 year.
      - 2143 3y ago
        I had a 5-year F1 visa for what would normally be a 2-year graduate course. I was under the impression that 5 years was the norm, considering a lot of undergrad courses (in engineering especially) take about that long to complete. Grad schools too can take that long if you're aiming for a PhD. (Although, when you graduate your F1 expires even if there's still time left on it; so you can't continue staying in the US after graduating without obtaining an OPT, or a different type of visa, PR or whatever).
    - amirs 3y ago
      Funnily enough those instances I described are based on Israelis as well. From what I gather it mostly depends on how the person reviewing your application thinks it's likely you might break your visa terms (stay longer than you should, work when you're not allowed to). Usually happens for younger people or people involved with problematic industries (military etc)
- darkwater 3y ago
  Regarding the US, as an European the ESTA is tied to the passport, so when it expires (or you lose it and have to renew it), you have to redo it. So yeah, usually it's ~10 years. EDIT: sorry for the misinformation, ESTA expires after 2 years OR when the passport expires [0] [0] https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US
  - ido 3y ago
    I thought EU citizens no longer need a visa to the US ahead of time at all[0]? [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visa-waiver-program.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-...
    - domh 3y ago
      It's not technically a visa, but you must have an ESTA which is like a pre-approval for a visa and is required for all flights to USA from participating countries. Then on arrival it's up to the border patrol to determine you're validity for entry and issue you with a 90 day "visa". From your link: > Travelers must have a valid Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) approval prior to travel and meet all requirements explained below. If you prefer to have a visa in your passport, you may still apply for a visitor (B) visa. So it's not as complex as the visa process and can be all done online. The ESTA lasts for 2 years (as far as I can remember). edit: spelling
      - yencabulator 3y ago
        The ESTA is not a visa and when using the Visa Waiver Program you do not have a visa. The Visa Waiver Program existed before ESTA. Think of ESTA as an opportunity to search for you in terrorist & crime databases ahead of time, as doing it at the time of the entry is logistically hard.
    - arlcode 3y ago
      No Visa in advance but you need to fill out ESTA online a few days prior to your departure. If you are declined for ESTA you need to apply using the usual process at the embassy/consulate.
dale_glass 3y ago
Yup. I was once invited to an US conference that was going to happen two weeks from my invitation. Even getting an appointment with the embassy within that timeline was impossible. Later I went for a different reason and if I recall the time to actually getting a visa was around 2 months.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Honestly, unless it's some critical customer/business thing (which I have had), anyone who wants me to speak at an international conference with two weeks notice is going to get told "My schedule is packed."
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    That was a long time ago and it was Linden Lab inviting me to some sort of Second Life open source discussion group. I wouldn't have done much good there anyway so it was no big loss for anyone -- My spoken English was barely understandable at the time, I think most of the talk was related to the protocol which I wasn't even working with at the time. Kind of a pity it didn't work out because I think it'd have been an entertainingly awkward experience for everyone involved, and I wouldn't have minded the English practice.
vient 3y ago
There is also a specific subset of this problem named "USA conferences on themes from Technology Alert List" with common examples being information security conferences like DEFCON or BlackHat. Just mentioning such conference during visa application may already give you headache, and usually you work in this field if you go to such conference - working in critical field automatically gets you an administrative processing when your passport gets sent to USA and some agencies check that you are not a spy or something which may take anywhere from several months to infinity. Also even if you pass this processing, you will get visa for 1 year max instead of usual 3 years. I know at least two such cases with my peers, one being my friend still waiting for visa decision 5 years later after Google accepted him for an internship and he got sent to administrative processing because of his job at security firm at the moment. Obviously, his internship expired years ago. From my experience, getting US visa is the worst by a wide margin compared with EU or UK.
- xg15 3y ago
  Sounds as if the current Cold War II situation keeps on escalating, people from a growing number of countries straight up won't be able to get visas for those conferences anymore.
  - reshlo 3y ago
    Maybe fewer people being able to attend in person will force more conferences to take accessibility seriously. WWDC seems to have taken this to heart, for example.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      In general (it's complicated and it's not as simple as have a video camera in every session) tech conferences are doing a pretty good job of getting session content online these days. And, yes, Apple invests at least as much as anyone. It's not really a replacement for attending a conference live but it's a mostly inexpensive (money and time) way to get exposed to a lot of the formal content of a conference.
ggm 3y ago
If you're an American university with a teaching or research Reactor, make sure your conference organisers know attendees from China, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria may be required not to be within a statutory minimum distance. It's hugely confronting and embarrassing for invited speakers, paper authors to arrive and then get excluded and escorted off campus.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- progbits 3y ago
  That's a ridiculous security theater. But I'm curious, what is the distance?
  - ggm 3y ago
    I'm unsure. It's something beyond "don't be on campus" I also can't find any documentation about it. Happened to a client of my partner who was an ESL academic proofreader. The most likely situation is an over cautious interpretation of https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-inf...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- duxup 3y ago
  > may be required not to be within a statutory minimum distance Of the entire university? What universities have this policy?
  - ggm 3y ago
    Can't find any documentation. Was an iranian engineer whose paper was accepted and they were then escorted off campus. Maybe it was some point of confusion or during heightened tensions US-Iran because I can't find any confirming documents online. The most likely situation is an over cautious interpretation of https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-inf...
magicalhippo 3y ago
A friend was doing a stint in Ghana as part of their degree, and was the same there. Had to get a visa, but no embassy in Norway, so had to use the one in Denmark. IIRC they had to send an email to apply then had to mail passport and money, so had to go to the bank to get danish currency. The whole process took a couple of months. I knew about visa being a thing, but hadn't traveled outside EU and US, so was a bit of an eye opener.
- pydry 3y ago
  I applied for a visa to Ghana last year. They had a broken website. When I asked tech support what the issue was they invented a reason of "you applied too far in advance" which wasn't true. The level to which they just didn't give a damn was palpable. I can't remember exactly what the issue was - something like a button or a drop down not working - but I managed to work around it in the end but it was very stressful. I had a whole bunch of flights, other visas, etc. hinging on this stupid broken website. It's a whole different world to when I travel to Europe/US/Asia but it's not all that different to how my spouse experiences traveling (with an unfortunate passport). The websites in the west tend to work a bit better but they do all sorts of things like require a visa appointment at a visa center, throttle the number of slots, make you come two weeks from now on Tuesday at 11:24am exactly and then keep you waiting until 5pm to talk to somebody who doesn't even understand the rules of the visa you're applying for.
lynx23 3y ago
Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.
- blueflow 3y ago
  Or don't go to conferences at all, less costs for traveling, less flying (climate etc), less potential for COVID infection.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Hardly unique to the US. As a US citizen, I've had to cancel on business speaking invitations because I couldn't fit the visa paperwork around my travel schedule.
- yarpen_z 3y ago
  Great advice for any PhD student or researcher! Do you have any other valuable advice? How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect.
  - azangru 3y ago
    > How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect. If by "it would have the same effect" you mean that it will be ignored, then maybe. But if you are saying that not attending international conferences is the same as not getting a job as a researcher in the first place, then I find this an exaggeration. Especially considering that one can participate in the scientific process by submitting their papers to journals, and that every country, including those in the Global South, can have their own conferences. What you may refer to is prestige. But that's a separate matter altogether.
    - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
      Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North). Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for acceptance. So, in sum, if you want to have a scientific career, attending conferences in the US/Europe is almost a must, at least in CS.
ghaff 3y ago
Something else to be aware of--which I've heard second hand--is saying anything that implies you'll be in the country to work. This can potentially include an honorarium, travel expenses covered, etc. Just something to watch. (As a US passport holder) attending conferences in most countries, much less answering some emails, without a specific business visa has never been an issue for me personally, but it can be an issue for some. (And business visas with letters of introduction etc. are required last time I got one from e.g. China.)
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Yup. Visas have multiple types, and unless it's specifically for that, you're forbidden from doing anything that looks like work. They also want to be quite sure you'll be returning after you're done, so a part of the application process is that there's something that ties you to your home country, like a job, house, etc. You're also expected to have enough savings to pay for anything you might need without working.
- yarpen_z 3y ago
  I travel on a B1/B2 visa for conferences. When asked for the purpose of my visit, a common follow-up question is if I am going to receive any remuneration for my talk. It's a tricky question since sometimes speakers receive a reimbursement for travel costs. I imagine that answering "yes" might cause you a lot of headache.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    A lot of countries (e.g. UK) seem not to have the clear B1/B2 separation that the US has with just a "standard" visa for US citizens and others covering routine business matters like attending conferences, meeting with customers, doing some work in your hotel room, etc. in addition to tourism stuff. But you're right. No one really wants to hear about your travel expenses being covered or your nominal honorarium--which are absolutely routine for certain types of industry roles. Your company is covering it as a routine matter (and that applies if you're in business for yourself as well.)
  - devilbunny 3y ago
i_no_can_eat 3y ago
There is another side to this. Whenever I have organized conferences, I end up receiving lots of requests for invitation letters, typically from researchers in India, for Visa purposes. I absolutely understand this, and I have always done my best to accommodate these requests. But this is time-consuming, and it is very annoying when those researchers (who are sometimes also scheduled to speak) never show up, and never bother giving advance notification. I have since been told that this is a scheme that some people use just to get a VISA for Europe, and then use the time for vacation once they have all paperwork in order. This creates a bias against researchers from these countries (I have been told by colleagues not to accept requests to speak at conferences from researchers in India because they will "never show up"). Annoyingly, my own experience does somewhat confirm this "advice", and it is extremely unfair for the people that genuinely are interested in traveling to attend conferences.
- xiaomayi 3y ago
  Happened three times with some researchers that tried to use conference as the main vacation (and they wanted to get paid!!!). They never show up. I tend to delete all the requests for invitation letters from people that are not referred by anyone.
- empeyot 3y ago
  Would be interesting to know how many of these visa applications eventually get rejected. Also, maybe some sort of deposit to be returned when participant shows up would discourage abuse.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Make them pay in advance and reimburse the fees if they show up. Problem fixed.
  - yellow_lead 3y ago
    This creates a new bias against people who can't lend a conference $X,XXX for a flight and hotel.
niea_11 3y ago
> in the US, whether you are permitted to enter and how long you may stay are determined by the person at the border I don't believe this is specific to the US. The agent at the border always has the last decision on whether you can enter the country even if you have a valid visa and travel documents.
- murphyslaw 3y ago
  I've also noted that issue. I know of several people at my former job who traveled to the San Jose office and were turned back for some inane reason that had never been an issue before that time. US Border Guards have extreme latitude and they seem to like their power a bit too much. Problem is that a single rejection forces you to go through the Visa process instead of the Visa-free process for the rest of your life: one of the questions on the entry form is (or was) "have you ever been denied entry", next to "are you a nazi war criminal" (not a joke). And answering "yes" on the former guarantees a whole lot of pain. If you answer "no" you're committing a felony. The USA's entry system is inane, utterly dependent on the person in front of you and downright scary to me. I've known conferences to move outside the US for this kind of reason, the pain was just too much and too many people couldn't get in.
  - Khaine 3y ago
    It also occurs if you visit countries the US doesn't like such as Cuba or Iran. Visited Iran when sanctions weren't in place, no ESTA for you. You get treated like a criminal, and have to pay more money for a proper visa.
- josephg 3y ago
  Border guards in the US tend to be more strict than other countries though. I’ve heard plenty of stories of friends being refused entry into the US, and I don’t personally know of anyone who was rejected coming in to any other country. It’s devastating when this happens because not only are you thrown out of the country on the next flight, but once you’ve been rejected at the border once, you can never apply for a simple online visa permit again. For the rest of your life you need to go to a consulate with your passport like this article describes. I was almost denied entry once when I visited Hawaii. The immigration officer heard I was on vacation for a month and had no cash on me (who travels with cash?). Turns out he was worried I’d end up homeless. He didn’t realise that as an Australian, I get paid while on vacation and I had plenty of money in a bank account online. This isn’t (just) a race thing. I’ve heard plenty of rejection stories from white, Australian men.
ur-whale 3y ago
From the map at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Indian_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Indian_c... looks like Mongolia and the Caribbean are optimal places to organize conferences.
- bloak 3y ago
  > looks like Mongolia and the Caribbean are optimal places to organize conferences The colour scheme of that map is attrocious, but perhaps you have a better monitor or better colour vision than me? I think Mongolia is "Visa available both on arrival or eVisa", which is presumably not as good as Kazakhstan's "Visa not required", for example.
  - ur-whale 3y ago
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/colorfish-color-picker/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/colorfish-col...
  - bkor 3y ago
    > "Visa available both on arrival or eVisa" That just means that they're taxing the arrivals. Turkey and Indonesia (for my country) switch between requiring a visa on arrival and not needing one. That's tied to lower/higher tourist numbers. If the number of tourists drop too much the visa on arrival is removed. That this is linked is the explanation I read in an Indonesian article on why they were removing the visa on arrival for my country. The only slight annoyance might be that sometimes they want you to pay that "visa" in (crisp) USD, which means getting USD.
xiaomayi 3y ago
This post might be a little biased since the author holds an Indian passport. He tend to blame the conference organizers to help Indian people to organize the transfer (VISA talking) to their conference. The thing I'd like to suggest to conference organizers is to set up an online mirror that might be used for people that, temporarily, can't get a VISA. If you blame conference organizers for some stupid rules about VISA, I think it's a little bit too much.. But maybe my opinion is biased too.
- sriram_malhar 3y ago
  Did you read till the end? Look at the last section titled "What can you do"; I reproduce the list here. - Announce the dates of the conference as early as possible (allows participants to book travel, visa appointments, maybe club multiple conferences) - Provide invitation letters in a timely manner - Call for participation as early as possible - Notify speakers as soon as you can This is a very reasonable ask. Each line is a request asking the conference organiser to do it as "soon as you can", or "timely manner" etc. He is merely asking conf organisers to be cognisant of foreign attendees time constraints.
  - reshlo 3y ago
    The text preceding that list is “if … you want a diverse audience”, which suggests they’re asking conference organisers to send personalised invitation letters to every foreigner who wants to attend, not just speakers. That could mean thousands of letters.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Almost certainly not thousands given that most large tech conference attendees are North American and European. But it's totally routine for large conference organizers to provide visa letters for attendees upon request. e.g. https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/attend/visa-request/ https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe...
    - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
yarpen_z 3y ago
This problem of late announcements also applies to travelers that don't need visa. Recently, a major CS conference announced accepted papers two months before the conference date. Since it was a large federated conference located in a tourist destination in Florida, in the middle of the season, traveling from Europe was particularly expensive when buying tickets on a short notice. And there's the additional downside that it was too late to apply to workshops and posters at co-located conferences. Many major conferences take place in the US, which means that traveling just for a workshop paper might not be feasible for researchers based outside of the US due to university policies and budget constraints. Thus, it's a good opportunity to participate and publish additional results while you are already there.
- duxup 3y ago
  Is not feasible for many people IN the US too ;)
puttycat 3y ago
Plus, getting hundreds of people to take flights from all over the world in order to watch keynotes seems very disconnected from current state of the world. Yes, there are advantages to in-person meetings, keynotes, etc. But specifically for conferences they are undermined by the ecological price.
- xvilka 3y ago
  Conferences are almost never about talks, they are about networking. Not once great ideas emerged from casual discussion between conference attendees/speakers.
Semaphor 3y ago
It’s very easy to forget how annoying Visas can be, if you are from a privileged country. I’m a German married to a South African, but before that we were long-distance dating. Me visiting her was effortless. Fly there, stand in line, get my stamps, done. Her visiting Germany? A lot of paperwork and appointments in both countries and usually paying for a 36h document courier to get her all the documents in time because it always takes longer than expected … And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages because she then would have to fly back to SA as she’s not allowed to change visas while not in her home country.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages What is this about? I'm not sure whatever phenomena you're referring to are well known outside of Germany.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Some countries don’t let you “change visa” without returning home. So if you’re in Germany on a tourist or student visa, and decide to get married, you have to fly home and apply for a marriage visa or whatever it is. Other countries let you basically “update the visa online” or at the embassy.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Pretty much this, some countries are allowed to change visas while in Germany, so you can get married in Denmark, which is an easy affair and doesn’t take much. Then you go to Germany, and the marriage is accepted there, and you can now change it to a spousal visa. Instead, she had to swear 3 times (twice in writing, once in person at the civil registry) that she’s not married either ritually, customary, or by law. Among other fun documents we needed.
      - 3y ago
brightball 3y ago
I just finished running the Carolina Code Conference this weekend and I do want to comment on this part: > But if you’re in my position, you need at least 2-3 months between the first and the last step. If your attendance is conditional on speaking at the conference (for example, if your company will only sponsor you if you’re speaking), then you need a minimum of 2-3 months between when speakers are notified and the conference starts. There are a lot of moving parts here. As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them in time for people to buy tickets. Confirmed meaning informed, accepted and able to travel. If there’s a risk of visa questions impacting travel then it’s prudent to have a backup plan such as presenting remotely. You don’t want to have to change speakers especially if people may have bought tickets anticipating the presentation. It’s really complicated.
- dagw 3y ago
  As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Also I've never gone to a conference specifically because I wanted to see any of the speakers. Do people choose which conferences to go to based on the main speakers?
  - brightball 3y ago
    I know I do. Topics and speakers specifically. The lineup is a huge factor. I’m sure we all have our reasons but it’s something I put a huge emphasis on personally.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Announcing a couple months out is pretty typical. But it doesn't really influence whether I attend an event or not. And if there's some keynoter I really want to see, there's always video.
  - pyrale 3y ago
    > I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Not every conference, especially for small/new ones, are able to sell out purely on blind bird tickets.
probably_wrong 3y ago
I'd like to point out a case that the author has politely left out: that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa. I know plenty of researchers from South America for whom COVID was a godsend as it allowed them to attend three virtual conferences for the price of one and where their virtual experience didn't make them feel like second class citizens. Those same researchers are now getting visa appointments for the US scheduled months after the end of the conferences.
- 2143 3y ago
  And I'd like to point out that even if I'm physically in, say Canada, I might still need a visa to go to Germany. Unless there's a clause somewhere that says people who have a visa for Canada can enter Germany visa-free — some countries actually do that. For example, UAE (the country where Dubai is) normally requires visa for Indian citizens, but if you're an Indian citizen with a valid US visa, then you're eligible for visa-on-arrival for UAE[1]: > All Indian citizens holding U.S. visas, green cards, U.K Resident Permits, or EU resident permits can receive entry visa upon arrival to UAE valid for 14 days for a charge of AED 100. [1] https://www.uae-embassy.org/visas-services/visas-for-non-us-citizens https://www.uae-embassy.org/visas-services/visas-for-non-us-...
  - braza 3y ago
    Not the OP, but the comparison it's apple to oranges. In some parts of South America getting a visa to USA goes to a queue that can take 262 days. From SA (from a country with a not so strong passport) to Germany since we're Schengen the visa does not apply, but with a work contract it's less than 30 days in some big cities. The point that I want to make here is that the sad reality is that Canada has a way stronger passport and good will from several countries than South America, that's why the comparison is not applicable. [1] - https://www.uol.com.br/nossa/noticias/agencia-estado/2023/08/04/visto-americano-espera-aumenta-em-sp-e-em-mais-duas-capitais-rio-tem-a-menor-fila.htm https://www.uol.com.br/nossa/noticias/agencia-estado/2023/08...
- reisse 3y ago
csomar 3y ago
Here is something conferences can do: run the conference in a visa-easy country. These usually happen to be: 1. Cheap and 2. Welcoming because they need the conference economic activity. Of course this is unlikely to happen because the companies running these conferences are mostly based in the EU/USA/UK and would not bother with the inconvenience.
- arunarunarun 3y ago
  Author of the post here. Logistically, it's a _lot_ harder for a person/team to organise a conference in a location they don't live in. There's logistics of venue, payments to vendors if you're organising food/travel/hotels, you might have volunteers for registration, information, etc. and it's easiest to find those in your local community. And finances across borders are anothe huge wrinkle. It's not impossible, but certainly adds significant complexity.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    Not to mention that it might be difficult to attract attendees if it's not a somewhat exciting location.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      And if it's in too exotic a location, it's probably not super-convenient to get to and it also probably screams boondoggle to the managers who have to approve the trip. When I was an analyst we really didn't much care for when a company would put on an event at some desert resort a lot of the time (around Phoenix was generally OK--if in winter). Even with them picking up a lot of expenses, it still cost us money out of pocket and it invariably took a good additional day out of out schedules relative to just having it in San Francisco.
  - csomar 3y ago
    I've been to a couple conferences in Hong Kong that selected HK exactly for this reason: Most countries don't need a visa. There is infrastructure in HK for these kind of things (and other things!). That being said, HK is not a cheap country by any stretch. There are lots of other countries that balance both cost and convenience (ie: Turkey, UAE, Malaysia, Qatar)
_8j50 3y ago
No excuse for not having a remote only alternative.
- dekervin 3y ago
  I am also interested if someone can chimenin. What's the current status regarding remote?
  - probably_wrong 3y ago
    I can speak for the ACL conferences (disclaimer: which I volunteered to organize a couple times) Streaming the talks, having questions via chat, putting all papers and posters online, multiple chat rooms, this is all there. Content-wise you can access everything. And since remote participants don't eat, their fee is a bit lower. There are also experiments on making poster sessions more interactive, but no one wants to use shared headphones in a loud room to talk to the (remote) authors. The real challenge is: how do you get those attending in person to interact with those that are virtual only? Will you take out your phone and hang around in the chat rooms during the break?
    - dekervin 3y ago
      Did something like gather.town had any usefulness or staying power with conference organisers? I thought its stated goal was to create a virtual environment more conductive to the very useful small talk between presentations.
      - probably_wrong 3y ago
        Gather.Town is currently being used for virtual poster sessions, and in that respect it works well. I've also seen it used successfully for discussion in small groups. There are some disadvantages that keep it from going beyond that: you cannot choose who you want to talk with, meaning you need to stay away from other people at the risk of having to talk to a stranger. And since "virtual" means "whenever you feel like it", there's a good chance that the people you want to meet are not there at the same time as you.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]
leephillips 3y ago
If you intend your conference to be “international” in any sense, do not hold it in the United States (I am a U.S. citizen). Here is just one example for why: https://daniel.haxx.se/us-visa.html https://daniel.haxx.se/us-visa.html The U.S. makes it extremely difficult to visit, routinely denying visas to all kinds of people with no explanation.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Glad that guy finally got it. I guess he’s definitely not a spy after all that checking!
jcarrano 3y ago
While I empathize with him and think it's ridiculous that he has to jump though so many hoops just to get a 3-dat visa, his complains should be addressed towards his own government and the EU who are the ones that should negotiate this sort of things.
mcculley 3y ago
Is there an optimal country to host conferences? (One that presents the least hassles with visas?)
- braza 3y ago
  Back the day when I was in the academia I suggested some fixed set of countries visa friendly to host those conferences on AI/Databases. The point that I made for the organizers is that, you can have clear instructions to the immigration offices and/or border control of those places if they had the full plan in advance: number of attendees, all info of the attendees already set in those departments, cross-check with their own embassies and consulates, etc. Their justification in that time was that it's important to rotate in different cities because it closes the ties with the local academic community, but I did not brought that; can be a bit harsh but the whole thing sounded a reason to made academic tourism instead to foster a knowledge sharing. Take that conference[1] for example and it's last venues: 2023 - Singapore 2022 - Seattle 2021 - Amsterdam 2020 - Online 2019 - Copenhagen 2018 - Vancouver 2017 - Como 2016 - Boston 2015 - Vienna 2014 - Silicon Valley 2013 - Hong Kong 2012 - Dublin 2011 - Chicago 2010 - Barcelona 2009 - New York 2008 - Lausanne 2007 - Minnesota Unless that you have a strong passport or if you're from US/EU it's quite unlikely that you can have all the visas for attend all those conferences. [1] - https://recsys.acm.org/ https://recsys.acm.org/
EnglishmanITGuy 3y ago
India has such a bad passport (in respects to visa free access) because Indians the world over are known to flagrantly abuse overstaying. There are poorer countries with better passports because their fellow countrymen aren't known for abusing the visa system.
hedora 3y ago
One thing is missing from this discussion: Visa processing times have shot up since before covid, and new organizers were still (naively) following timelines from a few years ago. They’ll adjust lead times to compensate, but the root cause is the needless increase in visa processing lag. That’s something the governments need to fix, and it has much worse impacts than conference attendance woes.
zajio1am 3y ago
s/Conferences/Governments/ FTFY
samuraijack 3y ago
[flagged]
FredPret 3y ago
I was born in the 3rd world and moved to Canada. Getting a visitor’s visa for Europe: excruciating, and they’re extremely stingy with how long it’s valid for. Lots of my friends & colleagues got rejected outright. UK: excruciating as well, and made me feel like a piece of shit in the airport. Canada: very hard, very detailed, but valid for ten years. Very nice when you get there. USA: one minute interview, three day wait, no problems. To be fair, the US had reams of info on me at this point.
Woshiwuja 3y ago
I mean, its not the organizers fault your country makes you do all this shit to travel to be honest...

225 points by edward 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

2143 3y ago

As you mentioned American and Canadian visa has a longer duration, so visa renewal is something you need to worry about only once in 10 years or so. For Europe, I think (not sure) if you travel there frequently, you are eligible for a longer-duration multiple-entry visa [1] (the linked website is NOT an official government website). I know somebody with such a type of visa. [1] https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-types/

amirs 3y ago
For the US you sometimes might get a visa that's valid only for a year, and in some extreme cases I've seen people receive visas for 30 days surrounding a specific event they were traveling for .
- ido 3y ago
  What does this depend on? I (Israeli citizen) always got 10 year visas to the US (now on my 3rd one).
  - j16sdiz 3y ago
    I think B1/B2 visa last of 10 years. I guess the 30 Days visa are J visa ?
    - vient 3y ago
      I think 10 years visas are for some "friendly" countries, others get 3 year visas if no 221g procedure was involved.
      - unmole 3y ago
        It's based on a subjective risk assessment. For example, middle aged Indians are usually issued 10 year visas to visit their children in the US.
    - fdgjgbdfhgb 3y ago
      I (Brazilian) had to get a J1 for a 3-month internship despite having a B1, my sister had a 6-month J1 for another exchange, so I guess it can vary
      - vinay_ys 3y ago
        If it is work or education of any kind (internship falls into that bucket I guess), then B1/B2 won't work.
  - tooltower 3y ago
    Visa type is also a factor. F1 and H1B frequently get capped to just 1 year.
    - 2143 3y ago
      I had a 5-year F1 visa for what would normally be a 2-year graduate course. I was under the impression that 5 years was the norm, considering a lot of undergrad courses (in engineering especially) take about that long to complete. Grad schools too can take that long if you're aiming for a PhD. (Although, when you graduate your F1 expires even if there's still time left on it; so you can't continue staying in the US after graduating without obtaining an OPT, or a different type of visa, PR or whatever).
  - amirs 3y ago
    Funnily enough those instances I described are based on Israelis as well. From what I gather it mostly depends on how the person reviewing your application thinks it's likely you might break your visa terms (stay longer than you should, work when you're not allowed to). Usually happens for younger people or people involved with problematic industries (military etc)
darkwater 3y ago
Regarding the US, as an European the ESTA is tied to the passport, so when it expires (or you lose it and have to renew it), you have to redo it. So yeah, usually it's ~10 years. EDIT: sorry for the misinformation, ESTA expires after 2 years OR when the passport expires [0] [0] https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US
- ido 3y ago
  I thought EU citizens no longer need a visa to the US ahead of time at all[0]? [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visa-waiver-program.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-...
  - domh 3y ago
    It's not technically a visa, but you must have an ESTA which is like a pre-approval for a visa and is required for all flights to USA from participating countries. Then on arrival it's up to the border patrol to determine you're validity for entry and issue you with a 90 day "visa". From your link: > Travelers must have a valid Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) approval prior to travel and meet all requirements explained below. If you prefer to have a visa in your passport, you may still apply for a visitor (B) visa. So it's not as complex as the visa process and can be all done online. The ESTA lasts for 2 years (as far as I can remember). edit: spelling
    - yencabulator 3y ago
      The ESTA is not a visa and when using the Visa Waiver Program you do not have a visa. The Visa Waiver Program existed before ESTA. Think of ESTA as an opportunity to search for you in terrorist & crime databases ahead of time, as doing it at the time of the entry is logistically hard.
  - arlcode 3y ago
    No Visa in advance but you need to fill out ESTA online a few days prior to your departure. If you are declined for ESTA you need to apply using the usual process at the embassy/consulate.

dale_glass 3y ago

Yup. I was once invited to an US conference that was going to happen two weeks from my invitation. Even getting an appointment with the embassy within that timeline was impossible. Later I went for a different reason and if I recall the time to actually getting a visa was around 2 months.

ghaff 3y ago
Honestly, unless it's some critical customer/business thing (which I have had), anyone who wants me to speak at an international conference with two weeks notice is going to get told "My schedule is packed."
- dale_glass 3y ago
  That was a long time ago and it was Linden Lab inviting me to some sort of Second Life open source discussion group. I wouldn't have done much good there anyway so it was no big loss for anyone -- My spoken English was barely understandable at the time, I think most of the talk was related to the protocol which I wasn't even working with at the time. Kind of a pity it didn't work out because I think it'd have been an entertainingly awkward experience for everyone involved, and I wouldn't have minded the English practice.

vient 3y ago

There is also a specific subset of this problem named "USA conferences on themes from Technology Alert List" with common examples being information security conferences like DEFCON or BlackHat. Just mentioning such conference during visa application may already give you headache, and usually you work in this field if you go to such conference - working in critical field automatically gets you an administrative processing when your passport gets sent to USA and some agencies check that you are not a spy or something which may take anywhere from several months to infinity. Also even if you pass this processing, you will get visa for 1 year max instead of usual 3 years. I know at least two such cases with my peers, one being my friend still waiting for visa decision 5 years later after Google accepted him for an internship and he got sent to administrative processing because of his job at security firm at the moment. Obviously, his internship expired years ago. From my experience, getting US visa is the worst by a wide margin compared with EU or UK.

xg15 3y ago
Sounds as if the current Cold War II situation keeps on escalating, people from a growing number of countries straight up won't be able to get visas for those conferences anymore.
- reshlo 3y ago
  Maybe fewer people being able to attend in person will force more conferences to take accessibility seriously. WWDC seems to have taken this to heart, for example.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    In general (it's complicated and it's not as simple as have a video camera in every session) tech conferences are doing a pretty good job of getting session content online these days. And, yes, Apple invests at least as much as anyone. It's not really a replacement for attending a conference live but it's a mostly inexpensive (money and time) way to get exposed to a lot of the formal content of a conference.

ggm 3y ago

If you're an American university with a teaching or research Reactor, make sure your conference organisers know attendees from China, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria may be required not to be within a statutory minimum distance. It's hugely confronting and embarrassing for invited speakers, paper authors to arrive and then get excluded and escorted off campus.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
progbits 3y ago
That's a ridiculous security theater. But I'm curious, what is the distance?
- ggm 3y ago
  I'm unsure. It's something beyond "don't be on campus" I also can't find any documentation about it. Happened to a client of my partner who was an ESL academic proofreader. The most likely situation is an over cautious interpretation of https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-inf...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
duxup 3y ago
> may be required not to be within a statutory minimum distance Of the entire university? What universities have this policy?
- ggm 3y ago
  Can't find any documentation. Was an iranian engineer whose paper was accepted and they were then escorted off campus. Maybe it was some point of confusion or during heightened tensions US-Iran because I can't find any confirming documents online. The most likely situation is an over cautious interpretation of https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-inf...

magicalhippo 3y ago

A friend was doing a stint in Ghana as part of their degree, and was the same there. Had to get a visa, but no embassy in Norway, so had to use the one in Denmark. IIRC they had to send an email to apply then had to mail passport and money, so had to go to the bank to get danish currency. The whole process took a couple of months. I knew about visa being a thing, but hadn't traveled outside EU and US, so was a bit of an eye opener.

pydry 3y ago
I applied for a visa to Ghana last year. They had a broken website. When I asked tech support what the issue was they invented a reason of "you applied too far in advance" which wasn't true. The level to which they just didn't give a damn was palpable. I can't remember exactly what the issue was - something like a button or a drop down not working - but I managed to work around it in the end but it was very stressful. I had a whole bunch of flights, other visas, etc. hinging on this stupid broken website. It's a whole different world to when I travel to Europe/US/Asia but it's not all that different to how my spouse experiences traveling (with an unfortunate passport). The websites in the west tend to work a bit better but they do all sorts of things like require a visa appointment at a visa center, throttle the number of slots, make you come two weeks from now on Tuesday at 11:24am exactly and then keep you waiting until 5pm to talk to somebody who doesn't even understand the rules of the visa you're applying for.

lynx23 3y ago

Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.

blueflow 3y ago
Or don't go to conferences at all, less costs for traveling, less flying (climate etc), less potential for COVID infection.
ghaff 3y ago
Hardly unique to the US. As a US citizen, I've had to cancel on business speaking invitations because I couldn't fit the visa paperwork around my travel schedule.
yarpen_z 3y ago
Great advice for any PhD student or researcher! Do you have any other valuable advice? How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect.
- azangru 3y ago
  > How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect. If by "it would have the same effect" you mean that it will be ignored, then maybe. But if you are saying that not attending international conferences is the same as not getting a job as a researcher in the first place, then I find this an exaggeration. Especially considering that one can participate in the scientific process by submitting their papers to journals, and that every country, including those in the Global South, can have their own conferences. What you may refer to is prestige. But that's a separate matter altogether.
  - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
    Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North). Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for acceptance. So, in sum, if you want to have a scientific career, attending conferences in the US/Europe is almost a must, at least in CS.

ghaff 3y ago

Something else to be aware of--which I've heard second hand--is saying anything that implies you'll be in the country to work. This can potentially include an honorarium, travel expenses covered, etc. Just something to watch. (As a US passport holder) attending conferences in most countries, much less answering some emails, without a specific business visa has never been an issue for me personally, but it can be an issue for some. (And business visas with letters of introduction etc. are required last time I got one from e.g. China.)

dale_glass 3y ago
Yup. Visas have multiple types, and unless it's specifically for that, you're forbidden from doing anything that looks like work. They also want to be quite sure you'll be returning after you're done, so a part of the application process is that there's something that ties you to your home country, like a job, house, etc. You're also expected to have enough savings to pay for anything you might need without working.
yarpen_z 3y ago
I travel on a B1/B2 visa for conferences. When asked for the purpose of my visit, a common follow-up question is if I am going to receive any remuneration for my talk. It's a tricky question since sometimes speakers receive a reimbursement for travel costs. I imagine that answering "yes" might cause you a lot of headache.
- ghaff 3y ago
  A lot of countries (e.g. UK) seem not to have the clear B1/B2 separation that the US has with just a "standard" visa for US citizens and others covering routine business matters like attending conferences, meeting with customers, doing some work in your hotel room, etc. in addition to tourism stuff. But you're right. No one really wants to hear about your travel expenses being covered or your nominal honorarium--which are absolutely routine for certain types of industry roles. Your company is covering it as a routine matter (and that applies if you're in business for yourself as well.)
- devilbunny 3y ago

i_no_can_eat 3y ago

There is another side to this. Whenever I have organized conferences, I end up receiving lots of requests for invitation letters, typically from researchers in India, for Visa purposes. I absolutely understand this, and I have always done my best to accommodate these requests. But this is time-consuming, and it is very annoying when those researchers (who are sometimes also scheduled to speak) never show up, and never bother giving advance notification. I have since been told that this is a scheme that some people use just to get a VISA for Europe, and then use the time for vacation once they have all paperwork in order. This creates a bias against researchers from these countries (I have been told by colleagues not to accept requests to speak at conferences from researchers in India because they will "never show up"). Annoyingly, my own experience does somewhat confirm this "advice", and it is extremely unfair for the people that genuinely are interested in traveling to attend conferences.

xiaomayi 3y ago
Happened three times with some researchers that tried to use conference as the main vacation (and they wanted to get paid!!!). They never show up. I tend to delete all the requests for invitation letters from people that are not referred by anyone.
empeyot 3y ago
Would be interesting to know how many of these visa applications eventually get rejected. Also, maybe some sort of deposit to be returned when participant shows up would discourage abuse.
ekianjo 3y ago
Make them pay in advance and reimburse the fees if they show up. Problem fixed.
- yellow_lead 3y ago
  This creates a new bias against people who can't lend a conference $X,XXX for a flight and hotel.

niea_11 3y ago

> in the US, whether you are permitted to enter and how long you may stay are determined by the person at the border I don't believe this is specific to the US. The agent at the border always has the last decision on whether you can enter the country even if you have a valid visa and travel documents.

murphyslaw 3y ago
I've also noted that issue. I know of several people at my former job who traveled to the San Jose office and were turned back for some inane reason that had never been an issue before that time. US Border Guards have extreme latitude and they seem to like their power a bit too much. Problem is that a single rejection forces you to go through the Visa process instead of the Visa-free process for the rest of your life: one of the questions on the entry form is (or was) "have you ever been denied entry", next to "are you a nazi war criminal" (not a joke). And answering "yes" on the former guarantees a whole lot of pain. If you answer "no" you're committing a felony. The USA's entry system is inane, utterly dependent on the person in front of you and downright scary to me. I've known conferences to move outside the US for this kind of reason, the pain was just too much and too many people couldn't get in.
- Khaine 3y ago
  It also occurs if you visit countries the US doesn't like such as Cuba or Iran. Visited Iran when sanctions weren't in place, no ESTA for you. You get treated like a criminal, and have to pay more money for a proper visa.
josephg 3y ago
Border guards in the US tend to be more strict than other countries though. I’ve heard plenty of stories of friends being refused entry into the US, and I don’t personally know of anyone who was rejected coming in to any other country. It’s devastating when this happens because not only are you thrown out of the country on the next flight, but once you’ve been rejected at the border once, you can never apply for a simple online visa permit again. For the rest of your life you need to go to a consulate with your passport like this article describes. I was almost denied entry once when I visited Hawaii. The immigration officer heard I was on vacation for a month and had no cash on me (who travels with cash?). Turns out he was worried I’d end up homeless. He didn’t realise that as an Australian, I get paid while on vacation and I had plenty of money in a bank account online. This isn’t (just) a race thing. I’ve heard plenty of rejection stories from white, Australian men.

ur-whale 3y ago

From the map at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Indian_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Indian_c... looks like Mongolia and the Caribbean are optimal places to organize conferences.

bloak 3y ago
> looks like Mongolia and the Caribbean are optimal places to organize conferences The colour scheme of that map is attrocious, but perhaps you have a better monitor or better colour vision than me? I think Mongolia is "Visa available both on arrival or eVisa", which is presumably not as good as Kazakhstan's "Visa not required", for example.
- ur-whale 3y ago
  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/colorfish-color-picker/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/colorfish-col...
- bkor 3y ago
  > "Visa available both on arrival or eVisa" That just means that they're taxing the arrivals. Turkey and Indonesia (for my country) switch between requiring a visa on arrival and not needing one. That's tied to lower/higher tourist numbers. If the number of tourists drop too much the visa on arrival is removed. That this is linked is the explanation I read in an Indonesian article on why they were removing the visa on arrival for my country. The only slight annoyance might be that sometimes they want you to pay that "visa" in (crisp) USD, which means getting USD.

xiaomayi 3y ago

This post might be a little biased since the author holds an Indian passport. He tend to blame the conference organizers to help Indian people to organize the transfer (VISA talking) to their conference. The thing I'd like to suggest to conference organizers is to set up an online mirror that might be used for people that, temporarily, can't get a VISA. If you blame conference organizers for some stupid rules about VISA, I think it's a little bit too much.. But maybe my opinion is biased too.

sriram_malhar 3y ago
Did you read till the end? Look at the last section titled "What can you do"; I reproduce the list here. - Announce the dates of the conference as early as possible (allows participants to book travel, visa appointments, maybe club multiple conferences) - Provide invitation letters in a timely manner - Call for participation as early as possible - Notify speakers as soon as you can This is a very reasonable ask. Each line is a request asking the conference organiser to do it as "soon as you can", or "timely manner" etc. He is merely asking conf organisers to be cognisant of foreign attendees time constraints.
- reshlo 3y ago
  The text preceding that list is “if … you want a diverse audience”, which suggests they’re asking conference organisers to send personalised invitation letters to every foreigner who wants to attend, not just speakers. That could mean thousands of letters.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Almost certainly not thousands given that most large tech conference attendees are North American and European. But it's totally routine for large conference organizers to provide visa letters for attendees upon request. e.g. https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/attend/visa-request/ https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe...
  - Ar-Curunir 3y ago

yarpen_z 3y ago

This problem of late announcements also applies to travelers that don't need visa. Recently, a major CS conference announced accepted papers two months before the conference date. Since it was a large federated conference located in a tourist destination in Florida, in the middle of the season, traveling from Europe was particularly expensive when buying tickets on a short notice. And there's the additional downside that it was too late to apply to workshops and posters at co-located conferences. Many major conferences take place in the US, which means that traveling just for a workshop paper might not be feasible for researchers based outside of the US due to university policies and budget constraints. Thus, it's a good opportunity to participate and publish additional results while you are already there.

duxup 3y ago
Is not feasible for many people IN the US too ;)

puttycat 3y ago

Plus, getting hundreds of people to take flights from all over the world in order to watch keynotes seems very disconnected from current state of the world. Yes, there are advantages to in-person meetings, keynotes, etc. But specifically for conferences they are undermined by the ecological price.

xvilka 3y ago
Conferences are almost never about talks, they are about networking. Not once great ideas emerged from casual discussion between conference attendees/speakers.

Semaphor 3y ago

It’s very easy to forget how annoying Visas can be, if you are from a privileged country. I’m a German married to a South African, but before that we were long-distance dating. Me visiting her was effortless. Fly there, stand in line, get my stamps, done. Her visiting Germany? A lot of paperwork and appointments in both countries and usually paying for a 36h document courier to get her all the documents in time because it always takes longer than expected … And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages because she then would have to fly back to SA as she’s not allowed to change visas while not in her home country.

thaumasiotes 3y ago
> And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages What is this about? I'm not sure whatever phenomena you're referring to are well known outside of Germany.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Some countries don’t let you “change visa” without returning home. So if you’re in Germany on a tourist or student visa, and decide to get married, you have to fly home and apply for a marriage visa or whatever it is. Other countries let you basically “update the visa online” or at the embassy.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Pretty much this, some countries are allowed to change visas while in Germany, so you can get married in Denmark, which is an easy affair and doesn’t take much. Then you go to Germany, and the marriage is accepted there, and you can now change it to a spousal visa. Instead, she had to swear 3 times (twice in writing, once in person at the civil registry) that she’s not married either ritually, customary, or by law. Among other fun documents we needed.
    - 3y ago

brightball 3y ago

I just finished running the Carolina Code Conference this weekend and I do want to comment on this part: > But if you’re in my position, you need at least 2-3 months between the first and the last step. If your attendance is conditional on speaking at the conference (for example, if your company will only sponsor you if you’re speaking), then you need a minimum of 2-3 months between when speakers are notified and the conference starts. There are a lot of moving parts here. As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them in time for people to buy tickets. Confirmed meaning informed, accepted and able to travel. If there’s a risk of visa questions impacting travel then it’s prudent to have a backup plan such as presenting remotely. You don’t want to have to change speakers especially if people may have bought tickets anticipating the presentation. It’s really complicated.

dagw 3y ago
As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Also I've never gone to a conference specifically because I wanted to see any of the speakers. Do people choose which conferences to go to based on the main speakers?
- brightball 3y ago
  I know I do. Topics and speakers specifically. The lineup is a huge factor. I’m sure we all have our reasons but it’s something I put a huge emphasis on personally.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Announcing a couple months out is pretty typical. But it doesn't really influence whether I attend an event or not. And if there's some keynoter I really want to see, there's always video.
- pyrale 3y ago
  > I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Not every conference, especially for small/new ones, are able to sell out purely on blind bird tickets.

probably_wrong 3y ago

I'd like to point out a case that the author has politely left out: that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa. I know plenty of researchers from South America for whom COVID was a godsend as it allowed them to attend three virtual conferences for the price of one and where their virtual experience didn't make them feel like second class citizens. Those same researchers are now getting visa appointments for the US scheduled months after the end of the conferences.

2143 3y ago
And I'd like to point out that even if I'm physically in, say Canada, I might still need a visa to go to Germany. Unless there's a clause somewhere that says people who have a visa for Canada can enter Germany visa-free — some countries actually do that. For example, UAE (the country where Dubai is) normally requires visa for Indian citizens, but if you're an Indian citizen with a valid US visa, then you're eligible for visa-on-arrival for UAE[1]: > All Indian citizens holding U.S. visas, green cards, U.K Resident Permits, or EU resident permits can receive entry visa upon arrival to UAE valid for 14 days for a charge of AED 100. [1] https://www.uae-embassy.org/visas-services/visas-for-non-us-citizens https://www.uae-embassy.org/visas-services/visas-for-non-us-...
- braza 3y ago
  Not the OP, but the comparison it's apple to oranges. In some parts of South America getting a visa to USA goes to a queue that can take 262 days. From SA (from a country with a not so strong passport) to Germany since we're Schengen the visa does not apply, but with a work contract it's less than 30 days in some big cities. The point that I want to make here is that the sad reality is that Canada has a way stronger passport and good will from several countries than South America, that's why the comparison is not applicable. [1] - https://www.uol.com.br/nossa/noticias/agencia-estado/2023/08/04/visto-americano-espera-aumenta-em-sp-e-em-mais-duas-capitais-rio-tem-a-menor-fila.htm https://www.uol.com.br/nossa/noticias/agencia-estado/2023/08...
reisse 3y ago

csomar 3y ago

Here is something conferences can do: run the conference in a visa-easy country. These usually happen to be: 1. Cheap and 2. Welcoming because they need the conference economic activity. Of course this is unlikely to happen because the companies running these conferences are mostly based in the EU/USA/UK and would not bother with the inconvenience.

arunarunarun 3y ago
Author of the post here. Logistically, it's a _lot_ harder for a person/team to organise a conference in a location they don't live in. There's logistics of venue, payments to vendors if you're organising food/travel/hotels, you might have volunteers for registration, information, etc. and it's easiest to find those in your local community. And finances across borders are anothe huge wrinkle. It's not impossible, but certainly adds significant complexity.
- martin8412 3y ago
  Not to mention that it might be difficult to attract attendees if it's not a somewhat exciting location.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    And if it's in too exotic a location, it's probably not super-convenient to get to and it also probably screams boondoggle to the managers who have to approve the trip. When I was an analyst we really didn't much care for when a company would put on an event at some desert resort a lot of the time (around Phoenix was generally OK--if in winter). Even with them picking up a lot of expenses, it still cost us money out of pocket and it invariably took a good additional day out of out schedules relative to just having it in San Francisco.
- csomar 3y ago
  I've been to a couple conferences in Hong Kong that selected HK exactly for this reason: Most countries don't need a visa. There is infrastructure in HK for these kind of things (and other things!). That being said, HK is not a cheap country by any stretch. There are lots of other countries that balance both cost and convenience (ie: Turkey, UAE, Malaysia, Qatar)

_8j50 3y ago

No excuse for not having a remote only alternative.

dekervin 3y ago
I am also interested if someone can chimenin. What's the current status regarding remote?
- probably_wrong 3y ago
  I can speak for the ACL conferences (disclaimer: which I volunteered to organize a couple times) Streaming the talks, having questions via chat, putting all papers and posters online, multiple chat rooms, this is all there. Content-wise you can access everything. And since remote participants don't eat, their fee is a bit lower. There are also experiments on making poster sessions more interactive, but no one wants to use shared headphones in a loud room to talk to the (remote) authors. The real challenge is: how do you get those attending in person to interact with those that are virtual only? Will you take out your phone and hang around in the chat rooms during the break?
  - dekervin 3y ago
    Did something like gather.town had any usefulness or staying power with conference organisers? I thought its stated goal was to create a virtual environment more conductive to the very useful small talk between presentations.
    - probably_wrong 3y ago
      Gather.Town is currently being used for virtual poster sessions, and in that respect it works well. I've also seen it used successfully for discussion in small groups. There are some disadvantages that keep it from going beyond that: you cannot choose who you want to talk with, meaning you need to stay away from other people at the risk of having to talk to a stranger. And since "virtual" means "whenever you feel like it", there's a good chance that the people you want to meet are not there at the same time as you.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]

leephillips 3y ago

If you intend your conference to be “international” in any sense, do not hold it in the United States (I am a U.S. citizen). Here is just one example for why: https://daniel.haxx.se/us-visa.html https://daniel.haxx.se/us-visa.html The U.S. makes it extremely difficult to visit, routinely denying visas to all kinds of people with no explanation.

FredPret 3y ago
Glad that guy finally got it. I guess he’s definitely not a spy after all that checking!

jcarrano 3y ago

While I empathize with him and think it's ridiculous that he has to jump though so many hoops just to get a 3-dat visa, his complains should be addressed towards his own government and the EU who are the ones that should negotiate this sort of things.

mcculley 3y ago

Is there an optimal country to host conferences? (One that presents the least hassles with visas?)

braza 3y ago
Back the day when I was in the academia I suggested some fixed set of countries visa friendly to host those conferences on AI/Databases. The point that I made for the organizers is that, you can have clear instructions to the immigration offices and/or border control of those places if they had the full plan in advance: number of attendees, all info of the attendees already set in those departments, cross-check with their own embassies and consulates, etc. Their justification in that time was that it's important to rotate in different cities because it closes the ties with the local academic community, but I did not brought that; can be a bit harsh but the whole thing sounded a reason to made academic tourism instead to foster a knowledge sharing. Take that conference[1] for example and it's last venues: 2023 - Singapore 2022 - Seattle 2021 - Amsterdam 2020 - Online 2019 - Copenhagen 2018 - Vancouver 2017 - Como 2016 - Boston 2015 - Vienna 2014 - Silicon Valley 2013 - Hong Kong 2012 - Dublin 2011 - Chicago 2010 - Barcelona 2009 - New York 2008 - Lausanne 2007 - Minnesota Unless that you have a strong passport or if you're from US/EU it's quite unlikely that you can have all the visas for attend all those conferences. [1] - https://recsys.acm.org/ https://recsys.acm.org/

EnglishmanITGuy 3y ago

India has such a bad passport (in respects to visa free access) because Indians the world over are known to flagrantly abuse overstaying. There are poorer countries with better passports because their fellow countrymen aren't known for abusing the visa system.

hedora 3y ago

One thing is missing from this discussion: Visa processing times have shot up since before covid, and new organizers were still (naively) following timelines from a few years ago. They’ll adjust lead times to compensate, but the root cause is the needless increase in visa processing lag. That’s something the governments need to fix, and it has much worse impacts than conference attendance woes.

zajio1am 3y ago

s/Conferences/Governments/ FTFY

samuraijack 3y ago

[flagged]

FredPret 3y ago

I was born in the 3rd world and moved to Canada. Getting a visitor’s visa for Europe: excruciating, and they’re extremely stingy with how long it’s valid for. Lots of my friends & colleagues got rejected outright. UK: excruciating as well, and made me feel like a piece of shit in the airport. Canada: very hard, very detailed, but valid for ten years. Very nice when you get there. USA: one minute interview, three day wait, no problems. To be fair, the US had reams of info on me at this point.

Woshiwuja 3y ago

I mean, its not the organizers fault your country makes you do all this shit to travel to be honest...