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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
- ironcurtain 3y agodemography is destiny
- nemo44x 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y agoCan you please stop posting flamebait? I don't want to ban you but I had to ask you this just recently (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486328) and many times previously (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- nathanaldensr 3y ago[flagged]
- feteru 3y agoWhen it doesn't happen with any other makes, yes! Cost cutting out industry standard anti-theft tech should be the car companies responsibility. Also....17 other local prosecutors, not just Baltimore.
- guardiangod 3y ago"industry standard". What standard? You mean the federal vehicle standard, which didn't require cars to have immobilizers? Or do you mean that because Hyundai/Kia didn't do what other companies do, that the government has the right to fine them? If yes, then what is the federal standard for?
- themaninthedark 3y agoIndustry standard means used widely across the industry, I would like to note that Hyundai and Kia are the largest Korean automotive makers. In the NA market, Hyundai is positioned #5 with 10% market share. In Korea, Kia and Hyundai combined have ~79% of the market. So to frame it as "they are not using industry standard" is wrong as at least 10% of the NA market and ~80% of the Korean market does not use this technology. So in the past, the most stolen make of car was the Honda Accord. Apparently Honda should have taken note and aggressively pushed new anti-theft technology. You are looking for a technological solution to a societal problem.
- klodolph 3y agoWe got a car in the mid 1990s with better anti-theft features. The only reason that these manufacturers are manufacturing cars this way is because other people are bearing the cost of theft.
- myvoiceismypass 3y agoIf they are not following industry standards on securing the car, then yes the car manufacturers should be liable.
- netsharc 3y agoBuyer beware? To argue on behalf of the Koreans, the cars didn't come with immobilizers, which is perfectly legal in the US, whereas in the EU it's a requirement. Maybe Baltimore should be suing whichever agency it is that permits that. I wonder if an analogy can be made with airbags, of course airbags are well-advertised and sane buyers would avoid cars without them, how about seat-belt pretensioners instead?
- throwanem 3y agoYeah, I've seen "The Wire" too, I get that people totally ignorant of what life in my town is like will overindex on that. But honestly, this is just an embarrassingly ill-informed take. You'd do exactly as well to defend an email provider whose exceptional account takeover rate derives from the fact that they don't support passwords.
- HDThoreaun 3y agoThere are an infinite number of people in the US willing to steal cars that are this easy to steal. Our culture is to risk positive for arresting people to stop this.
- dang 3y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait, especially of the ideological battle variety? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. This has been a problem for a while, and we eventually have to ban accounts that keep doing this kind of thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33014228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33014228 (Sept 2022) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30086559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30086559 (Jan 2022) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19830614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19830614 (May 2019) If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- softwaredoug 3y agoAre there resources to know what car brands are most vulnerable to the exploits car thieves are using?
- bombcar 3y agoYou may be able to find insurance reports on "most stolen vehicles" or similar.
- jaclaz 3y agoYep, but those will represent the "most desirable" cars, not the "easiest" ones. Those lists (with some few exceptions for top cars) usually reflect the "most sold" or "most common" cars, as these represent the largest "market" for spare parts.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoImagine if a city sued homeowners because it’s their fault for calling the police after a break-in, because they used a deadbolt that failed the LockPickingLawyer. This is about equally as sane. Yes, yes, I know that Hyundai and Kia vehicles are easy pickings, but they talk as though “those vehicles are easy to steal, so those teenagers, they just felt so compelled to…” Nobody forces somebody to steal a car. If anti-theft prevents a car theft, consider that is still someone who had intent to steal a vehicle if it were possible.
- qup 3y agoIt turns out, people will download a car.
- digdugdirk 3y agoThis situation is more like a deadbolt with a cover that could be pried off with your fingers, and then could be opened by any key shaped object once the cover is off. Maybe to put in software terms - a login page that allowed anyone to sign in to any account by viewing source and finding an admin login button sitting there for anyone to see. It truly is a flawed design. Yes, a design that might not be flawed for many societies around the world, but it's certainly flawed for a product that is sold in the USA.
- ericmcer 3y agoOf those two the second struck me as an example of someone who should expect to be victimized. It is funny how conditioned we are to assume people online will be as malicious as we allow them to be.
- digdugdirk 3y agoMechanical engineers operate under the same assumption, though it's generally a stupidity standard vs a maliciousness standard. In this case, they absolutely should have recognized there was no backup to their (much more affordable) immobilizer design, and caught it in the early design review phases.
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- alexb_ 3y agoHow is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.
- hardware2win 3y agoConsider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. >Car thefts in the city have nearly doubled this year compared to the same time last year, part of a nationwide trend after videos showing how to easily steal the vehicles racked up millions of views on TikTok.
- wslh 3y agoThe article sounds like if you leave the door open you should assume anybody will enter and steal you. This is reversing the victim to the victimary. In a sexist way would be similar that you are being raped because you wear some specific clothes. Or you are hacked because you don't apply a patch.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hardware2win 3y agoLets do not jump into emotional arguments Car makers should make their cars as hard as reasonably possible to steal. If dumb ass tenager can do that, the it is a mess
- themaninthedark 3y ago
- shrx 3y agoIs there a list published somewhere documenting which Hyundai and Kia car models are affected?
- shrx 3y agoFound a list of models that are blacklisted from being added to insurance policies [1]: 2015-2021 Hyundai Accent (all body styles) 2015-2021 Hyundai Elantra (two-door and four-door) 2015-2021 Hyundai Kona 2015-2021 Hyundai Santa Fe 2015-2021 Hyundai Tucson 2015-2018 Hyundai Veloster 2015-2021 Kia Forte 2015-2021 Kia Optima 2015-2016 Kia Optima Hybrid 2015-2021 Kia Rio (all body styles) 2015-2021 Kia Sedona 2015-2016 Kia Sorento 2015-2021 Kia Soul 2015-2021 Kia Sportage edit: forbes [2] offers a slightly different list of models: > Hyundai is offering a free software update to prevent thefts on certain targeted vehicles, starting Tuesday on nearly 4 million Hyundais on the road. The first million eligible cars are 2017 to 2020 Elantra, 2015 to 2019 Sonata and 2020 to 2021 Venue vehicles. Affected owners can bring in the car to Hyundai dealerships for the free anti-theft upgrade. It takes about an hour to install. Once updated a window decal will (hopefully) alert and deter thieves from targeting the vehicle. > The next batch of eligible vehicles will go in for the software update in June and includes a long list of Kia models, including: 2018-2022 Accent 2011-2016 Elantra 2021-2022 Elantra 2018-2020 Elantra GT 2011-2014 Genesis Coupe 2018-2022 Kona 2020-2021 Palisade 2013-2018 Santa Fe Sport 2013-2022 Santa Fe 2019 Santa Fe XL 2011-2014 Sonata 2011-2022 Tucson 2012-2017, 2019-2021 Veloster [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/these-hyundai-and-kia-models-are-blacklisted-by-state-farm-insurance-over-thefts https://www.thedrive.com/news/these-hyundai-and-kia-models-a... [2] https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/kia-hyundai-car-thefts-security-kit/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/kia-hyundai-car-thefts-se...
- russellbeattie 3y agoIf you own a Kia, enter your VIM on their site below and it'll tell you if it's vulnerable. I just checked my 2012 Sportage - it has an electronic keyfob start so it's OK. https://ksupport.kiausa.com/ConsumerAffairs/SWLD https://ksupport.kiausa.com/ConsumerAffairs/SWLD
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- aardvarkr 3y agoLots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rate of Hyundai and Kia theft in Baltimore has required city and police resources that would not have been needed but for Hyundai and Kia’s deliberate failures,” the lawsuit says. “Car thieves — many of them teenagers— take advantage of these failures and engage in reckless driving, creating substantial safety risks to themselves and Baltimore residents and their property.”
- aardvarkr 3y agoIt’s also worth noting that this was all started with a viral TikTok video showing Hire ridiculously easy it is to steal a Kia/Hyundai is. Here’s a collection of graphs showing the before and after of theft data in major cities. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts
- klodolph 3y agoThis echoes what happened in 2004 with Kryptonite locks and Bic pens. Someone figured out that you could open a Kryptonite lock using a Bic pen, which has roughly the same shape as a tubular lock key. You did not need to use the actual key or pick the lock. There was a rash of bike thefts afterwards. TikTok is a convenient scapegoat, but I think the problem would exist without TikTok, because it so closely echoes a similar situation from 2004. To be honest, I think that the manufacturer should bear the blame in both scenarios—it’s their responsibility to make sure that the products can withstand, for at least a few minutes, an unskilled thief with inconspicuous, unpowered, commonly available tools (like, a thief with no lock picks or angle grinders). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5efaWSWwlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5efaWSWwlk
- dwater 3y agoWhen that happened Kryptonite voluntarily created a free lock replacement program, where if you owned a tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock they replaced it for free, postage paid.
- endisneigh 3y agoeven after reading the article this lawsuit makes no sense. inherently a car that can easily be repaired can easily be stolen. the implication is that Baltimore does not want cars that can easily be modified so they cannot easily be stolen. troubling to say the least. then again, baltimore isn't exactly the pinnacle of governance. take the iphone for example, which are notoriously difficult to use if stolen. the result has been people tend not to steal iphones as much (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-19/how-an-iphone-update-lowered-new-york-citys-crime-rate#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-19/how-an-ip...). however the result is you have less control of your device. is this a worthy tradeoff?
- gjsman-1000 3y agoRight? Why don’t we all have our catalytic converters digitally paired with the Engine Control Unit iPhone-style? Is it the manufacturer’s fault for not doing that? Heck, just like an iPhone, let’s have all parts on a car from the headlamps to the door handles to the mirrors digitally paired together. That would stop theft, and any car maker who doesn’t do it is encouraging theft.
- shagie 3y agoThat doesn't quite follow as the catalytic converter is melted down for its metals rather than used as is. As to "all the parts on a car paired" - there is VIN etching. https://www.allstate.com/resources/allstate/attachments/tools-and-resources/vin-etching-fact-sheet.pdf https://www.allstate.com/resources/allstate/attachments/tool... The audio system has some semblance of paring. Though with he KIA, this is more often dealing with use (e.g. joy riding) of the car rather than reselling it.
- LgWoodenBadger 3y agoMelted down? More likely they're sold to questionable "remanufacturers"
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- fullstop 3y agoI have an older (2011) Kia and took it in for a firmware update. It changed two things: 1. Alarm sounds for 60s, increased from 30s 2. The key must be in the ignition for the vehicle to start #2 seemed kinda odd, but then I realized that people who used any sort of remote start kit would have a bit of a dilemma, as it would no longer function after the update.
- danielrpa 3y agoAs an ex Hyundai owner, I prayed that someone would steal my car so I'd have an excuse to get rid of it! Maybe they know almost nobody wants to steal their cars, so no need for anti theft tech :)
- hgsgm 3y agoGovernment should mandate product standards before suing over them. Government should thank Kia for making criminals easier to spot. Government should raise fees for people who buy substandard cars and then waste city resources dealing with their trash. Car owners could sue Kia for selling defective cars. Insurance companies should charge far more for Kias. Government should mandate insurance cost disclosures as part of car sales. Problem solved.
- bastawhiz 3y ago> Car owners could sue Kia for selling defective cars. > Insurance companies should charge far more for Kias. Great, someone made the unknowing mistake of buying one of these defective cars before it was known they are easily stolen. Now their insurance goes up and they have to sue the manufacturer. How many people actually have the money to deal with that? Suing the car company is expensive. And if I don't have the cash to buy another car (and the trade in value of the one I have has crashed) I'm just stuck paying increased insurance costs. And fees from the city, apparently. This isn't the economic motivation you think it is, it's just pushing the burden onto the owners who had no idea what they were getting themselves into. What you've done is proposed a bunch of complicated rules that burden consumers and dealers to do everything possible to prevent people from buying these cars, all so you can avoid just having the manufacturer do a recall. The government can simply say that the cars lack safety features, force a recall, and move on. Cut out all the consumer-unfriendly bureaucracy.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- oatmeal1 3y agoOf all the entities that could be blamed, it's not the jails that create recidivists, it's not the law enforcement that fails to intervene before serious crimes are committed, and it's not the schools that are raising delinquents.
- digdugdirk 3y agoPeople are commenting on this with a fundamental lack of understanding of a car's ignition system. This design truly is flawed. Traditionally, the immobilizer in an ignition system is physically tied to the steering column. Basically, you'd need to remove the steering column (the physical pipe that goes between your steering wheel and the front steering rack) in order to remove the part. If you want to defeat that immobilizer, you need to do a massive amount of damage to the mechanism, and that damage usually destroys the electronics that register the correct key being put into the ignition switch. This is more or less a self-reinforcing security feature, since the car wont start without this electronic signal. Kia/Hyundai decided to just tack a little immobilizer module on without integrating it into the steering column, and they didn't even do a decent job mechanically securing it to the column from the outside. That means you can jam a screwdriver in there and pop the "security" mechanism off. Once that's gone, you're left with a little (conveniently USB sized) nub that can be turned which will immediately start the car. No muss, no fuss, no recognition that it's missing its immobilizer module. Its a fundamentally flawed design, and it never should have made it past review.
- endisneigh 3y agoflawed or not, the onus is not on Kia. ultimately baltimore is suing them because of the spike in car thefts, not because of the flawed design. presumably if baltimore had no thieves, there would be no thefts irrespective of the design. so in effect baltimore is suing kia becuase their cars are getting stolen which is ridiculous. i don't know how anyone can defend this. this would be like baltimore suing banks for allowing customers to put in the pin "1234" after seeing a spike in money theft through ATMs. if Baltimore wants the cars to be harder to steal, then they should work with the governor to pass a law that requires cars sold in Maryland to have whatever security functionality they deem necessary.
- aardvarkr 3y agoHere’s a better analogy - imagine the atm manufacturer wanted to save money so they built a machine with a lock that could be pried off with a screwdriver instead of integrating security features inside the machine. This ATM would be about as trivially easy to break into as stealing a Kia/Hyundai is. Would the bank be right to pursue legal damages against the atm manufacturer for negligence?
- TurkishPoptart 3y agoCars designed for a high-trust society don't make the cut in low-trust societies.
- hinkley 3y agoI've had my eye on their new electric platform for a while and stuff like this is not helping me pull the trigger. I'm also still a little disappointed that the MSRP came out about 10% higher than the estimates. We're getting into too much money for a car there.
- ravensfan69 3y agoI live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I know have had cars broken into, homes broken into, tons of packages stolen, property vandalized, etc. Basically any form of property crime you can imagine. The idea that Hyundai or Kia are somehow culpable for these this extreme social dysfunction is absolutely farcical. Vagrants and criminals are kept like livestock by the local government and a class of parasitic NGOs- left to terrorize normal law-abiding citizens who barely have a legal recourse to violence should one of these incidents go sideways. It would take Ra's al Ghul to resolve the problems of this city
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoYeah, at some point in Chicago and Baltimore people figured out that career criminals vote, and will vote in their own interests. Very few people vote in local elections anyway, so they've managed to elect a ton of prosecutors who promise not to prosecute. Feels like the 70s in Urban America repeating itself. I feel bad for the older Black population in Baltimore. They busted ass for the last 50 years and they got to enjoy a really lovely city from like 2009 to 2013. Imagine growing up like Henrietta Lacks, only to have all your shit stolen by teenagers who are legally untouchable.
- hoofhearted 3y agoCitations needed. Please don’t come on my turf and start trashing out city without facts. I just looked down my street to Fort McHenry and our flag was still there :)
- vkou 3y agoPlease provide a citation for the insane claim that career criminals are a major voting block sufficient to consistently swing elections.
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoThe City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday
- hoofhearted 3y agoIt’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it? The city is suing to recover the money they spent on all the police efforts expended because Kia cut corners to reduce costs.
- alphanullmeric 3y ago[flagged]
- macinjosh 3y agoSchwinn does nothing to stop bicycle thefts. Let’s sue them too!
- hoofhearted 3y agoApples to oranges lol
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoHow? Bikes are easier to steal and sell, and we don't see them being sued. The logic is the same.
- op00to 3y agoIf there were a bicycle manufacturer that knowingly made its bikes easier to steal and sell, AND those bicycles when stolen were linked to numerous horrific collisions resulting in death and major injury of innocent parties, then there might be a comparison.
- nicenewtemp84 3y agoThis isn't as simple as "no immobilizer". My 2004 Ford F250 doesn't have one either. Thieves got into it and tried extremely hard to force the ignition and steal it. They tried hammering a flat head into it and rotating. Didn't work. They tried grabbing the outside of the mechanism with some kind of pliers and rotate, and that didn't work. I can see they easily spent several minutes on the whole ordeal, and didn't get anywhere. The entire lock mechanism was destroyed, almost shaved smaller from how many times they tried and their pliers slipped. When I got to it a few days later, I had to get home using that truck. I put the key in the ignition and turned it, and drove off.
- pfannkuchen 3y agoAre there regulations requiring car companies to include this anti theft equipment? If not, that seems like the obvious route for government to pursue? Lacking a regulation requiring this up front, it seems like there is zero case here?
- whitej125 3y agoI figured these Hyundai/Kia thefts using a USB cable was some techy issue... like there was a auto technicians USB port that would disable car security if it has something plugged into it. No. After 5 minutes of searching you see that a USB-A connector just happens to fit perfectly over the nub in the ignition and allows you to turn it. The problem is there is no engine immobilizer. So you can start the engine just by physically turning the ignition. I thought EI was pretty much standard on all cars post late 90's.
- trafficante 3y agoI can see why news organizations don’t want to publicize “your old phone cable is a skeleton key for Kia/Hyundai ignitions” - but it’s kind of a critical piece of information that does push this issue into the realm of manufacturer negligence imo.
- pvillano 3y agoDon't worry, the kids are on it
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y ago"Immobilisers have been mandatory in all new cars sold in Germany since 1 January 1998, in the United Kingdom since 1 October 1998, in Finland since 1998, in Australia since 2001 and in Canada since 2007." (Wikipedia)
- Convolutional 3y agoI should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration rate needs to increase even more, as crimes are barely being prosecuted according to him. The US is off the charts in incarceration rates, but he thinks they are far too low and want them increased more, as he sees increasing incarceration even more as the solution to the problem which western Europe does not seem to have to this extent. So those outside the US can get insights into what the US is and how it thinks from threads like this.
- dang 3y agoWe detached this generic tangent subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35920712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35920712.
- mlazos 3y agoI agree the US incarcerates too many people, does the comparison to China make sense? How can we trust their numbers especially when they disappear people.
- Convolutional 3y agoWell don't trust China's numbers, and compare the US incarceration rate to those of any industrialized country's numbers that you do trust.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoShouldn’t they sue the car owners for owning a car that could so easily tempt someone to steal it? Maybe they should implement car burkas?
- annexrichmond 3y agoIs this Hyundai/Kia theft disproportionately rampant in other cities as well? If so then Baltimore may have a reasonable case. If not then it’s a Baltimore problem.
- op00to 3y agoYes. This was literally a 3 second google, and the first damn hit: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/05/09/stolen-kia-hyundai-thefts-rising/70199187007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/05/09/stolen-...
- jrochkind1 3y agoThe first line of the OP: > The city of Baltimore has filed a federal lawsuit against car manufacturers Kia and Hyundai, joining a number of cities who say the companies created a public nuisance by making cars that can be easily stolen. later on: > Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. I feel like this whole thread has a lot of odd takes stirred up by people's suppositions of what happens particularly in "Baltimore".
- chrisbolt 3y agoI first heard about this 3 months ago when they became ineligible for new insurance with State Farm in Louisiana: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34642224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34642224
- g42gregory 3y agoMaybe this is naive, but wouldn't the solution be not to sell the cars in Baltimore? It's not that large of a market and there are local car manufacturers there as well. Maybe require in the user agreement not to drive to Baltimore either, similar to the rental car agreements that don't allow for the cars to be driven to Mexico?
- r00fus 3y agoI mean, like, people relocate and stuff or go into other cities to buy cars. Banning sales isn't going to do much other than a middle finger to Baltimore. Kia/Hyundai need to fix their security flaw.
- poorbutdebtfree 3y agoYou can't legally purchase a firearm in Baltimore..
- 1MachineElf 3y agoIndeed. Yet in Baltimore I've seen GrubHub drivers openly carrying and wearing body armor.
- tzs 3y ago> Maybe this is naive, but wouldn't the solution be not to sell the cars in Baltimore? It's not that large of a market and there are local car manufacturers there as well. Baltimore may not be a large market, but there are also several other cities suing, and at least 18 state attorney generals have gotten involved. That's a much larger market than Baltimore.
- jMyles 3y ago> this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc Probably fair, according to the anecdata collected in my travels in life so far. This view of the US seems common, almost consensus. > he thinks they are far too low and want them increased more This part, I don't think is typical (or even widespread) among Americans, and I don't see it expressly endorsed by ravensfan69 - seems like you are presuming it. It seems to me that, by very far, the common American sentiment is, "our justice system has failed, and the focus on incarceration has made crime worse instead of better." On the other hand, many types of crime - especially violent crime - have fallen in my lifetime in the US, in concert with much of the rest of the world. But yeah, we Americans don't like prisons and we know damn well that our state is just building them as an end-around to achieve a plantation economy. We're not stupid.
- golemiprague 3y ago[dead]
- gweinberg 3y agoWouldn't it make more sense for Kia and Hyundai to be suing Baltimore?
- diebeforei485 3y agoHow about changing the law to require safety features. More importantly, this is a strange lawsuit. Bicycles get stolen all the time, are bicycle manufacturers going to get sued by cities?
- tzs 3y ago> Bicycles get stolen all the time, are bicycle manufacturers going to get sued by cities? If bicycle thefts doubled in dozens of cities all around the country over a couple years or so, and the doubling was almost entirely due to people stealing a couple particular Schwinn models that had been designed in a way that makes them massively easier to steal compared to everything else and it is not obvious to purchasers that this is so, then yes, Schwinn would probably get sued.
- pleb_nz 3y agoTalk about cart before the horse
- mrtweetyhack 3y ago[dead]
- ineedasername 3y agoSo… is Apple going to be the hook in lawsuits because their phones are so desirable and easy to steal? Heck you don’t even need a screwdriver and usb cable like with the cars. I should launch a lawsuit against the contractor who built my house because even though the doors have locks a third can break in with nothing more than a rock and some willingness to maybe get cut on shattered glass
- raldi 3y agoThe expectation when a car is sold is that the ignition cannot be easily bypassed by an unskilled person using ordinary household items. There is no expectation when a window is sold that it cannot be smashed with a rock. Further details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty
- TheCaptain4815 3y ago[flagged]
- berjin 3y ago[flagged]
- mjx0 3y agoWould you care to elaborate what you believe this problem is, and how you've deduced it?
- shuckles 3y agoThe poster wants to imply the population is black Americans even though similar ethnic groups in other countries don’t have nearly the same violent crime rates. Either there are structural factors at play or black Americans are somehow a specific distinct population from people of that diaspora around the world. This is where the analytical skepticism of people who insinuate these ideas tends to fall apart.
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoWow, almost like culture matters. Structural factors for a single population out of dozens of distinct ones to kill, rape, rob, loot, riot, at rates 10x+ higher than others. Funny how the same factors end up applying in Brazil, Europe, and even Japan.
- archsurface 3y agoAway from the story a bit, looking at the US from afar I see millions of people entering the US from the southern border - how is this expected to play out? Will these people fit fairly easily into the economy, or will they likely be resorting to crime to get by?
- horns4lyfe 3y agoAs a lifelong Texan, my instinctual answer is that Hispanic immigrants tend to be really industrious and entrepreneurial. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think they’ll be fine for the most part and their kids will do really well.
- tourgen 3y ago[dead]
- khm 3y agoBaltimore has a police force out of their control (it's in state hands) but they still have to pay for it. This has resulted in massive retention and recruitment issues, and some of the cops who did stick around were on the take -- specifically the Gun Trace Task Force, home of the locally-famous Jump Out Boys. Baltimore is an independent city, so it can't rely on county assistance for anything. Furthermore, state law prevents Baltimore (and only Baltimore) from annexing suburbs to increase the tax base, which is how literally every city in America grows. This results in obvious financial problems, as the city cannot expand its income to keep up with costs of services to the impoverished people who remain after the exit of the steel industry and the tremendously reduced longshoreman cadre. Into all of this, some asshole carmakers decided to sell machines which are ready theft targets, able to be started by anyone who can get their hands on a USB stick. The spike in thefts of these products has a material effect on police availability. Where is Baltimore supposed to get the funding to meet this increase in demand for city services? They can't annex taxable land. They can't control policing policies. What would you do?
- IceHegel 3y agoI’m all for making cars harder to steal, but I don’t think constructing the problem as unsolvable and out of the cities hands is all that compelling either.
- SoftTalker 3y agoJust realize that making cars harder to steal means a locksmith can't help you if you lose your key. You'll have to have the car towed to the dealer and pay $500 - $1,500 to get a new key coded to the vehicle.
- dionidium 3y ago> Furthermore, state law prevents Baltimore (and only Baltimore) from annexing suburbs to increase the tax base St. Louis is the other major independent city. The state doesn't restrict its ability to annex suburbs, but it hardly matters. It doesn't happen, anyway, and it almost certainly wouldn't in Baltimore, either. Who wants either city's problems?
- IceHegel 3y agoMaintaining order is generally the responsibility of the state, not Kia and Hyundai.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- earthboundkid 3y agoJust got back from a lovely concert in the park in Baltimore, with lots of families and kids. Y’all can be scared of the city if you want. It keeps property values low, so families can afford to live here, unlike every other major US city.
- perryizgr8 3y agoKia should respond by integrating an automatic gun in the car that simply shoots anybody who approaches the car without the key. Maybe that will be acceptable to American sensibilities more than the notion of not stealing other's property.
- mbg721 3y agoThat would truly be the most American response: consider the problems of local crime, regulatory capture, and simple error; discard them; and fire until Daffy's bill is backwards.
- londgine 3y agoI remember when telling a woman, who was dressed very revealing, that she was "asking to be raped" was really taboo. I guess nowadays victim blaming is okay.
- arunharidas 3y agoDefund police!!
- loneey 3y ago[flagged]
- phendrenad2 3y ago1991 Dodge Probes are easy to steal, too, let's sue Craigslist while we're at it. This is a pointless lawsuit that won't win, and also won't do anything to hurt Hyundai PR if that's their goal.
- georgeplusplus 3y agoIt's pretty sad to see one of the deeply democratic voting cities, with no opposition to blame, start to use companies as their scapegoat for crime. The sad part is their voter base will somehow think any alternative ideas that lean even a bit to the right of their radical left policies is too extreme and that the status quo of double digit homicide and poverty levels unseen in almost any other city are preferred. Get a good look at the root of the issue in America. It's found in Baltimore and san Francisco.