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Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month
- worldmerge 3y agoThere already is a Tesla jailbreak scene. Guess more cars will start having jailbreaks.
- Lalabadie 3y agoEvery time I read news like this, I think "this is how you get a jailbroken car crash crisis".
- rootusrootus 3y agoWe've been "jailbreaking" cars for decades.
- danabrams 3y agoThe automaker cycle - Focus on adding value for the customer, gain dominance, milk it for all it's worth financially, drop precipitously, complain about how Toyota is beating you in the market.
- ongytenes 3y agoThis is NOT a service. It is EXTORTION! I I have a XM radio in my car and I pay a monthly fee that is a service as I am buying content. But to pay monthly fees to continue the operation or enhance the operation an OWNED product is extortion. It is unethical and should be illegal.
- ongytenes 3y agoI do not consider this to be an upgrade. An upgrade would be like actually changing one part for a new improved one. This may be a physical part or new operating system. But when everything has been purchased, already paid for, and in place, then it becomes an unethical practice of extortion rather than a subscription for a service. Suppose I built you a house and you paid me in full for it. Then I told you if you ever need more storage space I would charge you a monthly subscription fee to give you access to your own basement by remotely unlocking your basement door, would you stand for that?
- GiorgioG 3y agoIt won’t be my interest in saving the planet that stops me from buying cars, it’ll be bullshit like this. I want to own my car. I don’t want it to be connected (beyond acting as a hotspot) to the internet or to some central service. Have we not learned anything?
- canbus 3y agolikewise. sadly people will still buy this shite, which in turn encourages manufacturers.
- milkytron 3y agoA lot of people don't follow these developments, don't know how they're harmful, and don't really care. The car companies may be aware that there is growing resentment, but as long as it's legal and there are still enough people buying this for it to be worth continuing, they will do it.
- bluGill 3y agoUntil they discover it isn't. I'm predicting a lot of this gets rolled back as used cars buyers are more sensitive. Used car buys will look at this as the without model. Maybe this will work out as a lot of used car buyers don't care about speeds they won't go anyway (though they should ask if this was ever on as that does put more wear and tear on a car). I don't think this will work out for things like heated seats: the buyer will want a car with heated seats and one with a subscription for heated seats is worth less money to price sensitive buyers.
- 2rsf 3y agoDon't you want software upgrades? cars are loaded with technology, some of it is for "fun" like navigation of music services, but a lot if for safety reasons and this requires frequent updating.
- Guthur 3y agoNo it doesn't, if it isn't safe already it shouldn't be on the road and needs a recall.
- jackmott42 3y agoThere is a sense in which this can make sense, in that unlocking the power increases the chance of failure during warranty. So you pay to hedge against that. But we can be certain car makers will not be giving you the option to unlock this for free post warranty. The fact that you aren't given control of your car when you own it is pretty awful and a terrible trend. I expect the trend will continue, I've not yet in my life seen a user hostile corporate power grab actually stop. oh well. eat arbys.
- foobarbecue 3y agoThe communist / capitalist symmetry is quite something. In communism, the individual doesn't really own anything; the state just lets the individual use things as they see fit. In our late-stage capitalism, the individual doesn't really own anything; the corporation just lets the individual use things as they see fit.
- verdverm 3y agoI would not extrapolate a trend into a permanent change. Trends have a way of being fads or reversed
- schaefer 3y agoAre you calling streaming media like Spotify a trend? What was the last time you bought an album?
- alpos 3y agoSome time well before torrents were a thing? Music became essentially free long before it become a thing people rent.
- verdverm 3y agoThat is different from a car. With Spotify, I get access to all the music and don't lose it when the cd gets scratched. What the auto companies are doing is gating the existing functionality behind subscriptions. These companies are largely commodities at this point and are trying out rent seeking. I don't think many consumers will accept this long term. The proverbial camel's back will break because it is user hostile
- alpos 3y agoPossibly the stupidest day-one DLC play we've ever seen. >"Customers might see that as “a bit of a cheat,” Because it is a cheat. There is exactly zero chance this doesn't get bypassed and unlocked for free with the quickness. Better still though, just don't buy stuff from people willing nickel and dime you like that. Pay real money for real things that you actually own. You will be happier this way.
- p0w3n3d 3y agobut we mustn't agree to such practices, because if this goes legal next step will be prevent from software hacking and/or police/MOT checks for illegal software tampering
- zamnos 3y agoThis is already the case in California. Tapering with the ECU (in a detectable way), will cause your car to flunk the smog exam, which, unrectified, makes it illegal to drive your car.
- bradfa 3y agoIs there a smog exam in California for electric cars? Honest question, as it wouldn't surprise me if there was due to complicated legislation.
- jedberg 3y agoAs of now, no. But I wouldn't be surprised because the smog exam doubles as a road safety check, and as more EVs are on the road that are getting old, they're gonna want a way to verify road safety. Probably a state battery exam or something.
- bradfa 3y agoOK, interesting. In NY we have a mandatory yearly safety check for all vehicles but also an emissions check for specific classes of vehicles (ie: gasoline cars/trucks >=2 years old, but diesel passenger cars and EVs are exempt). Mostly the emissions test consists of connecting the state software/hardware to the OBDII port and having the car tell if it should pass or not.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bizzleDawg 3y agoThe old "Download more RAM" meme is feeling less funny and more prophetic these days
- skinkestek 3y agoRAM Doubler or something like that was an actual working thing back in the days, that worked by (IIRC) transparently zipping/unzipped data on its way to/from memory. But yes, I agree.
- toast0 3y agoOn the other hand, SoftRam 95 took the driver kit paging driver and claimed to compress data, but actually didn't. All you got was a small buffer in memory where pages would be paged to before they actually got paged to disk. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20211111-00/?p=105897 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20211111-00/?p=10...
- nickpinkston 3y ago[flagged]
- p0w3n3d 3y agoComing up next year - your macbook might run twice as fast if you pay additional 100$ per month. In my opinion such behaviour should be treated as a direct consumer rights' violation, under accusation of malicious intentional degradation of product sold to customer. When hardware (engine/cpu) is created it has its by-design limits and there is no possibility to increase those limits by software, i.e. this is not increasing, but decreasing the capabilities to extort additional premium
- jeffnappi 3y agoPerhaps it makes sense to pay extra to be able to put extra strain on something (laptop, car, xyz) while it's covered under a manufacturer warranty, however after such a warranty period ends any such feature should be unlocked.
- alistairSH 3y agoThat extra cost should be a one-time fee assessed when the feature is unlocked (with any extra costs borne by the manufacturer/vendor baked into that pricing). Not a subscription that lives on for the duration of the device.
- userbinator 3y agoThe owner of a 516-horsepower Mercedes EQS 580 needn’t worry that a neighbor’s EQS 450 might go faster It's worth noting that passenger car power ratings have always been "peak" ratings ever since they stopped using the same engines in cars and trucks. 500HP is around what a semitruck engine is rated at, but the difference is that the latter can maintain that power output for more than a few seconds, even continuously, and the resulting differences in construction are massive. Look at aircraft piston engines for an even more extreme example.
- horsawlarway 3y agoI want to see this legislated out of existence. To be clear, because every time this comes up some dickfucks come in here and start making excuses about how it's better to rent in some cases and that this is just amortizing the whole payment, and there are some people who want this: No. This is a fucking terrible deal even just using mercedes numbers. It takes a whopping 30 months (2.5 years) for the monthly payment to exceed the upfront cost. The average length of new car ownership in the US is between 8 and 11 years (varies by source and accounting methods). You will be charged fucking $6000 dollars for a item that is already present in your car, you just don't have the damn key. RENT FUCKING SEEKING. Even on cars that cost 100k, Mercedes just gets to pocket an extra 5% of the sale price here at literally no cost or effort. Piss on these car manufacturers.
- phonon 3y ago[flagged]
- moolcool 3y agoSay it louder for the people in the back. As a consumer, never accept this. Not now, not ever.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoThese complaints remind me of complaints I've heard about "day one" DLC (DownLoadable Content) in video games. For those unfamiliar, it's content which is available in the game upon its release but you have to pay extra for it. Sometimes, players are given the option to buy the Ultra Digital Deluxe Collector's Edition which comes with the DLC and "exclusive" shit (and also costs extra). If it's not rent seeking, it's drip pricing, it's added-on sales tax, it's $0.99 instead of $1[0], it's the Ultra Digital Deluxe Collector's Edition. I would always advocate: don't give them your business. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. I know it's a lot easier said than done to avoid such ploys. Still, that is the strongest personal option. Avoid them like the plague and tell your friends and family why. If a business' current practices seem better than you remember, hold on to the memory; make them work to prove any marketed change of heart. (It may be hazardous to my health to hold my breath waiting for the $0.99 shit to stop.) [0] There was a card shop (games shop, comic book store, that sort of thing) I went to as a kid. They priced stuff like $5 and it was actually $5 when I went to pay. 12-year-old me "didn't even know that was legal".
- jmclnx 3y agoNice way to kill the EV industry. Usually companies would what until they get market share when compared to fossil fuel vehicles before pulling this crap. So no, I will ride a bicycle or horse or walk before I pay a monthly fee for a vehicle I purchased. It is like M/S with its 365 push pushing people to Linux/BSD or Apple with the fees they are hoping to tack on for Windows use.
- rootusrootus 3y agoNobody is making you buy an EV with a subscription. And there have been ICEVs for many years that sold performance upgrades which amounted to nothing more than reprogramming the ECU.
- belter 3y ago- You money will be digital. No currency that you can hold on your hand. We can take it all with a flip of a switch - Your car will be a package of subscriptions. Want to hear radio? You can add a subscription. They probably will even provide up-sells like a dating service. Subscribe here and we will tell hot singles available in the area where you just parked. - Your bicycle probably will become a subscription.. "Your bicycle subscription has expired" - https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/136xaqg/your_bicycle_subscription_has_expired/
- SargeDebian 3y agohttps://swapfiets.com/ https://swapfiets.com/
- willsmith72 3y agoActually bike subscriptions are really convenient
- jollyllama 3y agoWhy does anybody buy this crap?
- deepspace 3y agoBack in the day, I participated in Autocross, and occasionally joined a car club for a track day at the local raceway. Gas, club fees, entry fees and instructor fees typically came to $300-400 for a fun Sunday. I drove a stock BMW 3-series, and did not need or want to pay for the added performance of an M-series for day to day driving. However, if I could upgrade to M-series performance for $60 for a track day, I would have jumped at the opportunity. This is admittedly not a common use case, but there is definitely a niche market for this kind of thing.
- jollyllama 3y agoOk, that kind of makes sense. Personally, I find something offensive about paying for a machine or device that's intentionally software nerfed by the manufacturer. And outside of a track setting, I think variability in one's daily driver would not be enjoyable.
- smileysteve 3y agoIf you're doing SCCA, will you handicap your car appropriately? I once took a first place trophy in SCCA autox because my mother's 99 Nissan Maxima sedan is handicapped compared to a Subaru WRX. There are whole series developed around cheap, fast enough cars, s2000, Miata, RX-7 (non turbo), bmw e46. I always find it odd when people take Corvette and other super cars to these events, where they can't win.
- recursive 3y agoVenturing a guess here. They buy it because they find the benefit to be worth the cost.
- Workaccount2 3y agoForum full of people whose life blood is SaaS complain when HaaS shows up.
- vannevar 3y agoThe first EV startup that emerges with a dumb EV (minimal software to actually operate) for around $30K will have a best-seller. Nobody actually wants the subscription-based car, it's gradually being forced on consumers via industry collusion.
- rootusrootus 3y agoWhy does it have to be a startup? You can buy a dumb EV for under $30K today from GM. And yeah, it does sell pretty well. The vast, vast majority of EVs sold today are not forcing subscriptions of any kind on their customers. A couple minor carmakers are trying a new business model.
- mikestew 3y agoThe vast, vast majority of EVs sold today are not forcing subscriptions of any kind on their customers. It's funny that you mention GM, because guess what GM wants to do with EVs starting next model year? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43488135/gm-apple-carplay-discontinued-future-evs/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43488135/gm-apple-carplay... (Last line of the article if you want to jump to the spoiler.)
- rootusrootus 3y agoWe can worry about that next year. I fully expect GM to walk back some of it's recent announcements based on strongly negative feedback from customers.
- mikestew 3y agoFair enough, let's not reverse-Osborne a company that, as you say, stands a good chance of walking back their announcements (despite having already lost a sale at our house). If GM is axing the Bolt, though, I hope they hold to their word at keeping the Equinox close to the same price point.
- vannevar 3y ago
- tibbydudeza 3y agoSAAS - Speed As A Service.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoRemember those Intel Core locked range of CPU's - you could unlock certain features afaik higher clocks and bigger caches by running a unlock tool and buying a code from Intel. Needless to say the PC enthusiasts told Intel to get borked.
- rrgok 3y agoThe next logical step is for CPU, in hardware you physically own, to have subscription that will unlock more cores. Imagine owning an Apple M2 device that requires an extra 30$ a month subscription to unlock 2 more cores. I hope I'm joking....
- kamefrede 3y agoIntel's already's going to this, though https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918
- ernesth 3y agoIBM has been doing it for years: they sell you a multi-core machine but you only can use 1 core. You can pay to use more than one as you need: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power9?topic=environment-capacity-demand https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power9?topic=environment-capacit...
- matwood 3y agoOr software that you pay for per CPU core.
- olivermarks 3y agoThis is just all about recurring revenue from clueless people. In the USA SEMA needs to be supported before we lose even more control. https://www.sema.org/ https://www.sema.org/
- gwbas1c 3y agoI've had this (cough) "opportunity" in my Tesla for as long as I can remember. (Dual-motor Model 3, it's well-known that it's mostly software differences to make it the performance version.) Guess what: My Tesla is fast enough. I don't feel any need to pay more money to make it go faster. (I'm not going to whine about rent-seeking or how I own it and I should be able to do what I want with it. Instead, I'm going to point out that:) Market forces will always push costs down and performance up. If a car company decides to artificially cripple their car so that you feel forced to pay extra; another car company is going to see that as a golden opportunity to undercut. Market forces will make sure that cars are "fast enough" at base price, because only timid drivers want an artificially slow car. (And, yes, my Tesla does have an option to make the car artificially slow.)
- my_usernam3 3y ago> it's well-known that it's mostly software differences to make it the performance version. Do you have a source of this, news to me
- electriclove 3y agohttps://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade https://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade
- iknowstuff 3y agoNot quite the Performance level.
- electriclove 3y agoWhy do you say that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFQi5R0S-M0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFQi5R0S-M0
- rootusrootus 3y agoIt's true for early AWD LR Model 3s. The motors were the same used on the P version, just software limited. It's no longer true, current LRs do not get the same motor the P does, so cannot be software unlocked to full P performance.
- spokeonawheel 3y agoew. suddenly I want gas cars back.
- helf 3y ago[dead]
- moomoo11 3y agoCan’t wait for cars to have displays on the exterior so we can choose to show ads instead of pay the monthly fee. PAYS FOR ITSELF BABY
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoThey already have those digital license plates that I've seen just displaying a Tesla logo instead of the plate number and state.
- hommelix 3y agoIt already exists. No screen, just stickers. Like this example https://dollarsprout.com/get-paid-to-advertise-on-your-car/ https://dollarsprout.com/get-paid-to-advertise-on-your-car/
- foxyv 3y agoThe best EV is an electric bus with trolley lines or a tram. I hate that I have to own a monstrous depreciating asset to have reliable transportation. If you think people are buying this to drive on a track you are naive. They are paying $60/month to make their already unsafe overweight vehicle even more unsafe. I hope they go bankrupt.
- notnotjake 3y agotram will never come to the farm land. cars seem useful in low-density, very spread out regions.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fuzzfactor 3y ago>> The best EV is an electric bus with trolley lines or a tram >Or a train. Massive numbers of passengers. >cars seem useful in low-density, very spread out regions. Well, while I'm here already . . . Urban trains can be counter-productive in unintended ways. The electric "mass-transit" Metrorail in Houston runs at street-level on many streets that were originally designed for horse & carriage. Taking up space that was previously available for freer movement of buses, but worse with the rail crossings which almost always require more passengers in cars to idle much longer while waiting than there are passengers on the trains at the time. Electric buses would have been much better and less wasteful of finite resources. The light rail was originally intended for ambitious people who could not afford cars to have a quick commute to downtown jobs, reach Texas Medical Center & Astrodome area to the south, and higher education to the north. "Massive" numbers of passengers outside of rush hours mainly only occur during Rodeo time or other special events where massive numbers of visitors come from out-of-town. The rest of the time passengers are quite sparse, somewhat divided between workers & students versus those carless and/or on the streets whose ambitions do not include either. Some of these passengers can be quite predatory on ordinary citizens, and this gives them more efficient ways to travel or gather in places where prospective victims can more likely be found at different times, and a quick way to escape after a crime has been committed: https://abc13.com/metrorail-violence-light-rail-harris-county-metropolitan-transit-houston-police/12629126/ https://abc13.com/metrorail-violence-light-rail-harris-count... >6th violent incident on or near METRORail in 2 months I still ride it weekly but never would bring my laptop or even cellphone outside of rush hours since there are always at least one or two questionable characters and that's the only time they are usually well outnumbered by ordinary riders. But the collisions are quite common and these could have been more amenable to better engineering planning: 3 MAY 2023 "Video of the crash". Notice how the bystander throws up his hands knowingly right after the 1 minute mark: https://abc13.com/houston-news-ambulance-turns-in-front-of-metrorail-vs-metro-crash-investigation/13205772/ https://abc13.com/houston-news-ambulance-turns-in-front-of-m... >On Tuesday, METRO said the investigation is over, and no one is being cited for the crash that resulted in multiple people being hurt. ABC13 also called HFD on Tuesday to ask, specifically, if the ambulance driver is still operating ambulances. But they are still citing an open investigation, an investigation we know is closed. For both of these parties this time liability is limited, same range as for buses: >Why METRO bus crash victim has to pay up - despite being innocent https://abc13.com/metro-bus-crash-houston-tort-claims-act/6251752/ https://abc13.com/metro-bus-crash-houston-tort-claims-act/62... >Even if everything goes his way, Leger will still be out hundreds of thousands of dollars because he was hit by a bus. >That's because METRO's buses and the rail is protected by the Texas Tort Claims Act. >It caps their expenses regardless of if the victim dies or is severely maimed at $100,000 per person or $300,000 total. >"If a negligent METRO bus driver runs a red light and hits a van that has 14 children from a daycare and kills them, the most that METRO would ever be responsible for is $300,000," said Matt Willis, Leger's attorney. If the full monetary damages of every incident were to have been recoverable, Metrorail might have been bankrupt long ago. But they still have money to burn going forward: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Metro-s-big-plan-spends-too-much-on-rail-but-13547260.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Met... >Unfortunately, we're already all too familiar with low ridership on light rail. The $1.4 billion Green and Purple lines have dismally low patronage. A while ago there was an article posted on HN about an old Japanese rail line that still maintained an end-of-the line terminal which was now only used by one passenger. This seemed to be a benevolent gesture. I was thinking how much more benevolent could it be in Houston where they built new rail lines for almost nobody to use very much? >So how should Metro redeploy that $2.45 billion light rail budget instead? Sometimes (or even with some currencies) there can be more environmental emissions earning the money to begin with compared to spending it wisely later. Depends on the scale and how wisely: >For future planning purposes and MetroNext, it really does not matter if autonomous vehicles become available in 5 years or decades in the future. Anything built in the MetroNext plan can be expected to be in service to the year 2100 and beyond. MetroNext needs to be ready for autonomous transit, if and when it comes. The plan also needs to maximize mobility benefits of transit investments if autonomous transit is slow to develop or has a minimal impact. Practically, that means concrete guideways with rubber-tired vehicles than can evolve as the technology does. IIRC rubber tires are a more modern & versatile technology than rail. https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/12/28/475488.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/12/2... >Some drivers said Metro should turn its efforts internally instead of policing drivers. >“Why don’t they ticket their own drivers for blocking intersections or not blowing the horn?” said Salvadore Martin, who drives downtown daily. >Other drivers said Houston should have anticipated safety problems with a street-level rail system from the beginning. Engineers are usually aware of things like this more so than bureaucrats, but you can't fix stupid either way. >“This is why you build a subway,” said Georgine McDonald, another driver in the area. Not in downtown Houston, 20,000 leagues under the bayou floodwaters ring any bells? Naturally Houston has the most light rail collisions under a number of terms, averaging about 90 per year in recent times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/light-rail-safety-around-the-u-s-how-does-seattle-stack-up/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/lig... https://abc13.com/metro-traffic-accidents-pedestrians-killed/3462012/ https://abc13.com/metro-traffic-accidents-pedestrians-killed... >"Everyday people go in front of that train thinking they can beat it," >Those near misses happen all the time. >If anyone should know better, it's Jim Robinson, the chairman of METRO's public safety committee. >"I was thinking about something else and almost stepped off in front of a train," Robinson said. "It got my attention when he blew his whistle." >"There's still work to do," Robinson said.
- notnotjake 3y agoI can understand to some degree only manufacturing one physical product and limiting it to create multiple retail products. And once you do that it only makes sense to allow people to "upgrade" after delivery. But I am really not sure why they'd want to do a subscription rather than a one-time purchase? Is it just to get better conversions? Is it because they want a recurring revenue stream (it can't be _that_ big for their business)?
- travisporter 3y agoIsn’t there New Jersey legislation banning this type of subscription
- elforce002 3y agoThis is interesting. Mercedes is making a bold move trying to enter the subscription arena. Its customer base is affluent to say the least but I think this move won't fly with them. I'm willing to bet that if the EU forces Car manufacturers to stop making ICE cars, China, South Korea, Japan will become the biggest Car makers in the world.
- josefresco 3y agoReminds me of the old Celeron days 25+ years ago. The premise of paying different amounts for the same hardware always gets us hackers riled up.
- r00fus 3y agoShould rile up any rational consumer. Corporation can flex their market power to ensure you pay more for something they can provide for free.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoWhere do grocery stores and coupons fit into this? Selling a book/media at a lower price in with a poorer populace? A national park charging difference prices based on the visitor’s nationality (by the passport they have)? Haggling in a market in a stereotypically poor country where different buyers get different prices based on their negotiations? A big company sales representative selling software licenses at difference prices to different clients?
- r00fus 3y agoThis is exactly why anti-trust exists - ostensibly to prevent any single entity from having a coercive monopoly in any given market. If one company owns all the grocery outlets in a region, they can do this, so that is frowned on by governments. I can't speak to your other examples, they don't seem to apply directly.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoAll of my examples are the same thing - selling the same thing at different prices, technically referred to as price segmentation or price discrimination.
- acqbu 3y agoHuh? What about computers? Where can I find a subscription for additional RAM?
- juliangmp 3y agoAnd people still give me strange looks when I say I prefer my 13 year old car with its manual hand break over any car made in the last 5 years.
- lykahb 3y agoI think that the solution to that has to be in taxation. Legislation that bans something profitable is going to encounter a lot opposition. Taxation is easier to introduce than a ban. A high tax on connectivity for certain classes of goods could make this less appealing. Add in the requirements for privacy and keeping records that are as stringent as HIPAA, and that could change the calculations of risk and benefit for such rent seeking.
- hommelix 3y agoThe tax was planned by some EU countries but it has been cancelled on pressure of US government, defending the interests of large companies like Google ([1] & [2]). The legislation for this tax may have not addressed exactly the Mercedes case, but in general the idea was to tax more digital services, which I believe the Mercedes subscription would be qualifying for. [1]: https://www.dw.com/en/us-reaches-agreement-to-end-european-digital-services-taxes/a-59584827 https://www.dw.com/en/us-reaches-agreement-to-end-european-d... [2]: https://www.politico.eu/article/washington-big-tech-tax-talks-oecd/ https://www.politico.eu/article/washington-big-tech-tax-talk...
- borvo 3y agoWhy I will never buy a Mercedes EV.
- 1827163 3y agoDoes Mercedes understand this is destroying the reputation of the brand? This practice needs to be made illegal and an exception made to the DMCA specifically legalizing attempts to bypass it. Bypassing such measures absolutely should not be a felony.
- jackmott42 3y agoThey understand they are not. People like you and me who hate this are the minority. It will keep happening more and more no matter what you do. eat arbys.
- fhood 3y agoMercedes, Audi and BMW destroyed their reputation for anyone paying attention a long time ago by producing expensive, unreliable cars that aren't even remotely cost effective to keep running. Plastic timing chain guides, FFS. If purposefully building engines that grenade themselves at 80k miles wasn't enough, then it's hard to imagine what would be.
- bilsbie 3y agoI can’t seem to express what’s wrong with this but it just feels very wrong. Anyone know how to succinctly explain why it’s so bad?
- tantalor 3y agoIt's not really "your car" if the manufacturer can flip some flag remotely that you aren't allowed to touch.
- clintonb 3y agoI'm pretty sure most folks cannot modify the firmware of the overwhelming majority of devices they own. This isn't much different.
- awb 3y agoWell, we do it in software where we charge higher monthly fees for uptime guarantees, more features, better performance, etc. And Xfinity does it with hardware where you pay extra per month for faster speeds over the same cable. But in those scenarios, there is extra cost incurred by the company when you choose to upgrade. In this scenario, when you upgrade there's no cost to the car manufacturer, so it feels wrong. In the most generous view, there will be slightly more wear and tear on the car at higher speeds and that they need to charge extra to cover the warranty on faster cars. In a more realistic view, it's a cash grab not only in terms of $720/y per customer, but also making it easier to up-sell future over-the-air subscriptions or purchases with your CC already on file.
- B1FF_PSUVM 3y agoYou haven't been sufficiently educated in "value received" doctrine. Please report to a re-education facility, or watch some news.
- oblib 3y agoI grew up around cars, and car builders. I've worked on quite a few very famous cars. My father built custom cars and ran "Barris Kustom" for years. I learned how to build custom cars, including race cars. I also spent years designing and building cars (vans) that quadriplegics could drive and lots of those were for guys who crashed, or got ran into by cars/motorcycle, at high speeds. Personally, I think if anyone crashes a car that they were paying a fee to a car company to make their car go that fast that car company should be held accountable and libel for any and all damages and deaths that occur from that. I'm sure others would disagree, but I don't care. Odds are they've never spent any time at all working with those who were paralyzed because some dumbass smashed into them at high speeds.
- Xerox9213 3y ago[dead]
- jackmott42 3y agoHow is there any distinction between paying a fee for more horsepower, or just buying a fast car to begin with?
- bobbylarrybobby 3y agoWhat is the distinction between paying to go faster and just going fast? (Disclaimer: I am in favor of limiting car speeds to the local speed limit via GPS-based speed governors or something similar.)
- trgn 3y agoNot sure if this is what you're saying, but the truth that nobody wants to hear is that cars are inherently dangerous because of their speed. The best way to save lives if have roads that encourage calm careful driving (bollards, single lanes, speed bumps, trees, ...). People want to have their cake and eat it. go as fast as possible, yet still be "safe". That's fighting against the laws of nature, weight + speed kills, it's just impossible to square that circle. We just need to internalize that in our hearts, and externalize this in our infrastructure.
- 3y ago
- chimen 3y agoLiterally everything I buy on the internet has features unlocked by higher payment plans (Netflix, hosting, ahrefs etc). I don't get the big deal about it. For one, I am happy I can upgrade my car without any mechanical interventions. You get what you pay for when you buy your car. It's their business if it's limited down to meet your package or not. Did they deliver anything else from what you paid for? If the answer is yes then we have a problem. If the answer is No then I don't see the issue. A more powerful car is usually more expensive, always has been.
- Retric 3y agoCars need to physically move equipment so the option to have software unlocks comes with a significant fuel etc costs over the lifetime of a vehicle. It’s not even just a bad deal for the owner, such deadweight has real environmental and safety consequences for everyone.
- bluGill 3y agoA more powerful car is also more likely to break, and will wear out sooner.
- anon291 3y ago> You get what you pay for when you buy your car. Apparently, the irony is totally lost on you.
- tclancy 3y ago>Literally everything I buy on the internet has features unlocked by higher payment plans Because they told us eliminating the middleman would lead to lower prices. Then they eliminated all the middlemen and started charging more. The fact you're inured to it doesn't make it good.
- clintonb 3y agoNo middleman was eliminated (at least in the US). Also, the discount would come on the base price, not for an add-on.
- tantalor 3y ago> available through an over-the-air software patch The phrase "software patch" implies updating the code. I'd be really surprised if this sort of change required a code push. More likely the code is already there, and the "patch" is a data file changing some constant.
- bluGill 3y agoThe industry is changing to actual code changes. If it is a flag someone might figure out where that flag is and how to change it, and with right to repair that becomes a legal thing. If it is more code they send, that code is protected by copyright and isn't a right to repair issue at all.
- saran87 3y agoThus creating jailbreaking car shops, increase your car speed for 100$ forever
- dirtyid 3y agoHow do upgrades like this affect insurance? Or prosecution if it kills someone. What if feature was unlocked via jailbreak.
- paxys 3y agoApple spearheads user-hostile decisions and everyone willingly accepts it (even cheers for it) because hey, it's Apple. Google, Samsung etc. copy them down the line, and by then it is too late to complain and reverse the trend. Tesla spearheaded (1) removing Carplay/Android Auto and charging monthly for maps/traffic/connectivity, (2) hiding features behind paid software upgrades, (3) hiding performance improvements behind monthly subscriptions, (4) providing charging for a monthly fee. Everyone cheered them on as revolutionary, and it is too late to complain now. Of course other manufacturers are going to copy them.
- judge2020 3y ago> (1) removing Carplay/Android Auto and charging monthly for maps/traffic/connectivity, (2) hiding features behind paid software upgrades, (3) hiding performance improvements behind monthly subscriptions, (4) providing charging for a monthly fee. 1: tesla never supported carplay, although it is anti-user at this point. And the monthly sub for this is traffic data (which does cost n > 0 to Tesla) and access to cellular streaming, which also costs then per GB to AT&T. 2: FSD Beta? this costs tons of engineering hours. I made a case for heated seats in SR+ vehicles being gated behind a $300 one-time purchase here[0] 3: performance improvements were the result of continued stress and stability testing of the motors, and it resulted in a one-time acceleration boost[1], not a subscription 4: vehicle charging for a monthly fee? They have a subscription for non-EVs to charge that grants you access to discounted rates, but this isn't a thing otherwise. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35820345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35820345 1: https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/1040/tesla-acceleration-boost-a-complete-guide https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/1040/tesla-acce...
- paxys 3y agoYou can say all of the same for the article being discussed. It takes time and effort to engineer a fast car. If you aren't okay with Mercedes charging monthly for it, you should not be okay with Tesla's business model as well.
- tclancy 3y agoRent seekers gonna rent seek. Apple has nothing to do with it.
- SergeAx 3y agoI say: just hack the damn thing. I own the stuff, I can do whatever I want with it. Also kill all the telemetry and phone home in the process.
- fuzzfactor 3y ago>You can make your Mercedes EV go faster for $60 a month Umm, no. Allow me to correct this misprint. Unless you pay an extra $60 monthly your already-expensive vehicle will not give the full outstanding performance that your particular hardware was engineered to do.
- kingcharles 3y agoI'm confused as to how those two statements are different?
- krono 3y agoThey already posses the capability to perform to the implied specifications with or without that $60/mo.
- iknowstuff 3y agoWait until you find out about binning or software limited engines
- MisterSandman 3y agoBinning is completely different, an i5 may be able to perform as fast an i7 if you overclock it, but it depends on your luck on how your i5 was, and it will almost certainly be unstable. Binning is the equivalent of making really fancy chocolates, and selling the slightly worse-looking chocolates for worse.
- w0m 3y ago> and it will almost certainly be unstable TBF - this depends how well they streamlined their manufacturing process. As yield goes up; getting a perfectly stable 3ghz chip binned as a 2ghz before a flash lock becomes increasingly common. It became common to hunt for specific chips for this reason back when I actually had time to pay attention to it.
- pengaru 3y agoIf Mercedes offered an illuminated AMG badge for $1000/mo that did nothing more than flex the cash burn there would be buyers.
- B1FF_PSUVM 3y agoThe "I am rich" app making a comeback, duly sanctioned ...
- cushpush 3y agoIf you say "download more horsepower" again, CNN, it's curtains for you.
- epolanski 3y agoFun fact: even without this addon those cars are way too fast for regular roads.
- spoonjim 3y agoIf they activated this software with a bolt that was installed at the dealership, there would be no complaints
- stan_kirdey 3y agocan I get 100$ discount for going slower, please? driving like a gran-pa-pa finally pays off.
- zardo 3y ago> The upgrades do not change how far the vehicles can drive on a charge, according to Mercedes, assuming normal driving. What a funny statement. "Assuming normal driving" means not using the extra power you would be paying for.
- stratigos 3y agooh no they have car DLC now? This is a nightmare. With what Ive learned recently about cobalt mining and the dependencies EVs have on them, it sounds to me like were better off with combustion engines. Guess I can hope for a future with a hydrogen fueled V8!
- SentientAtom 3y agoConnect your car to cellular towers they said...
- 1970-01-01 3y agoMercedes are doing it wrong. You cannot sell thunder without the flash. How will my friends know I've spent money on something that doesn't matter?? What you need to do, Mercedes, is simply follow the preestablished model. You are to tie this "go faster" fee with wheel and tire upgrades and "this model goes even faster" stickers or emblems. This subscription crap really won't sell as-is.
- Taniwha 3y agoMy Leaf has a button on the steering wheel that does it for free - it's called "ECO" - turn it off and zoom!
- aeturnum 3y agoOh - this seems fine to me? If I have to pick between a world where a company makes four different models of car with actual different components, and a world where a company makes one car with DRM - the DRM world just seems better in general? I think it should be legally required to offer a fully functional un-DRM'ed car for the "full" price, but I would much rather buy the premium model and be able to unlock its features over time than have to choose up front which I want.
- givemeethekeys 3y agoThat would be a boring world and will never exist without heavy government support.
- BeFlatXIII 3y agoOnly so long as DRM is easy to circumvent. Treat it as a competency test.
- FpUser 3y agoNot that I own Mercedes (car for me is just bring me from A to B) but I would never pay rent for the things I buy. They want to sell 2 different models - sure. They want to offer car lease - be my guest. They want to graze on me - fuck you.
- LightBug1 3y agoHas anyone tried flashing a Mercedes? Installing a custom ROM? https://www.xda-developers.com/mercedes https://www.xda-developers.com/mercedes I guess there won't be a need as I hope people won't touch a Mercedes while crap like this exists. I'll keep rolling in my 69.
- Eumenes 3y agoReason #51234123123 to never buy an EV
- Animats 3y agoAnd for $25 a month more, you can make left turns.
- ThinkBeat 3y agoThis gives me nightmarish visions of DRM battles in the engine compartment. You hacked me to go faster, but you didn't pay. "No No. Its all good. See here is the code" That code has now expired, I will start melting the engine. DMCA DMCA "You are just confused. This code is ok again tomorrow" Master computer says melt the engine. All warranty null and void
- comprev 3y agoAudi have been doing this for years with their "Plus" package on RS cars. The top speed was capped and could be "unlocked" by paying extra.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoHonestly don't hate this when applied to speed specifically. Consider it a tax on dangerous behavior. Before you get your knickers in a twist, we already get charged more for premium safety features. Why can cars go as fast as they do to begin with? how many people die because some foolish teenage boy with more testosterone than brains (I've been there) was hurtling down the highway at 100mph+?
- prima-facie 3y ago> Mercedes draws the line at features for which there are physical buttons inside the car, like heated seats, said Rossmann. Mercedes never wants customers to press a button and get an annoying “Subscribe for use” pop-up on the center screen. The removal of physical buttons now suddenly makes sense.
- bloomingeek 3y agoTo me it's just like my Ram Truck, they can remotely communicate with it, so I basically don't completely own it. In other words, if I'm not in total control of what I purchased, I don't really have the ability to stop them from turning the truck off at anytime. If you don't see it this way, put your money where your mouth is, come up with a way to disconnect from the car maker. (Please, no complaints about how the communication is for my own good!)
- rkagerer 3y agoHow can CNN and this Peter Valdes-Dapena publish something like this where the only criticism is a short line buried at the end calling subscribe-a-speed "a bit of a cheat"? That's not journalism, it's a fluff piece.
- prometheus76 3y agoWho knew that $5 horse armor DLC for Oblivion in 2006 would grow into a $2000 Horsepower DLC for Mercedes-Benz?
- smeej 3y agoThe relevant question is what you own when you purchase a car. If I own something, nobody else should have the right to disable features of it remotely unless I pay them indefinitely. If I've bought a car with an engine in it of some specific number of HP, it shouldn't be up to anyone else to tell me I can't actually use all the HP because I'm not paying them forever. That's some real mafia-type of arrangement.
- perryizgr8 3y agoI think this produces more outrage than a one-time charge would. The reason is that there is no apparent ongoing cost to Mercedes to enable the full-spec performance of the car, yet they are charging a subscription fee. It would be much more palatable to me (probably most others) if you could pay some extra money at the start to let your car perform to it's rated capacity. I would be able to justify it in my mind as cost of the car. Charge subscriptions where there is a real recurring cost to provide the feature or service, like say a remote assistance service that needs a SIM card plan.
- fomine3 3y agoGenerally I hate the idea of making everything into subscription, but maybe I like this. There's NO people really need such overkill performance, but BEVs might have such performance because of other reasons. Bigger battery for long range and powerful motors for AWD will make vehicle can go fast, but it's not practical and dangerous. Make it subscription and only speed badass people pay for this is looks good idea.