23 ms·

Apple Pay’s long road to paying off is getting shorter

108 points by lxm 4y ago

thinkling 4y ago
https://archive.is/ULJBh https://archive.is/ULJBh
OkGoDoIt 4y ago
Sorry if this isn’t directly relevant to the article. It’s paywalled, so I can’t read it, but perhaps this is a good place to vent anyway. My issue with Apple Pay is that it’s more tedious than just using a credit card. Especially with tap to pay, I can pull a credit card out of my wallet and tap it on the reader in a second or two. Apple Pay requires me to tap my phone to the terminal, hold it aligned to my face for a few seconds, maybe it will succeed or maybe I’ll have to redo it or type in my alphanumeric password, and I need to select the card I want which is a swipe and then another tap or two (it always assumes I want the default card, which is not always the case), and then I need to re-tap it on the terminal again. I also sometimes need to double tap the power button, but not always. And sometimes I accidentally turn it off when I am pressing the power button, and then I have to start over. I’ve tried it many times (at one point I had a business debit card that was shared among multiple people so we all just used digital copies of it), and it always feels awkward and time-consuming and like I’m holding up the line behind me. I really don’t understand the appeal. Digital transit cards like the new digital wallet clipper card in the bay area are cool though. I definitely see the appeal of that. I happily used one for a few months, and then I upgraded to a new iPhone and it didn’t transfer over during the transfer process. Still haven’t figured out if it’s possible to transfer it over or not. So I tried signing up for a new digital clipper card, but I lost cell signal during the process, and now it’s stuck in some weird half signed up state where I paid $20 but the Apple wallet app won’t actually activate the card or let me start over. It’s been like this for a couple months now. So back to physical clipper cards for me. Sometimes new technology is really just overcomplicating things.
- randomopining 4y ago
  If you already have your phone in your hand it’s faster for sure come on
  - OkGoDoIt 4y ago
    Between the face ID part, the awkward interaction for selecting the card, and the inconsistency for loading the wallet app, I disagree in my personal experience. Plus, how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere? Realistically, I’m either taking my phone out of one pocket or my wallet out of a different pocket, there’s not a huge difference in time or effort. And one of them I know will work quickly and seamlessly, the other one works most of the time with a few extra steps.
    - augment003 4y ago
      > the awkward interaction for selecting the card Do you juggle a lot of different cards? My guess is that most people have a default. > how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere? Pretty much always when I’ve been in line at the grocery store.
      - ripper1138 4y ago
        I agree with you. My guess is these people are a bit older and have different habits. Also lmao at “awkward interaction for selecting the card” as if people don’t have to select the card out of their physical wallet in the same way?
    - comex 4y ago
      Personally, I sometimes have my phone in my hand already. If I don't, then I can usually use my Apple Watch. If not, then yes, Apple Pay with Face ID is a bit inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as carrying around a wallet everywhere would be. In the past, I encountered credit card readers that wouldn't work with Apple Pay often enough that walking around without a physical credit card felt like a gamble. These days it doesn't.
  - 4y ago
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Yeah, using Apple Pay isn't a slam dunk if you have one card you use for everything, and always have with you. Where it shines is that it can relieve you from having to carry around three credit cards (gas, grocery, everything else), a warehouse membership card, retail club card, etc.
  - OkGoDoIt 4y ago
    Yeah, the only reason I use it at all is for my less frequently used cards for special purposes. Cards I wouldn’t normally carry with me in my wallet, but it’s nice to have in case I randomly need them. So it’s nice to have the option, I just don’t understand how anyone would expect Apple Pay to replace the simplicity of credit cards for normal high-volume transactions.
    - speg 4y ago
      This is so alien to me. I’ve been using Apple Pay for years. I don’t even know where my wallet is half the time. I certainly don’t carry it on my person. If you have an Apple Watch it’s even faster.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Thanks -- I have a iPhone but don't use Apple Pay. No way do I want to connect my phone to my bank account, and in any other respect I have not been able to imagine how it's better than a credit card. I've seen people fiddling with their phones trying to pay for stuff, reminds me of the days when you'd get behind someone trying to write out a check. > Sometimes new technology is really just overcomplicating things. Wholeheartedly agree. There's nothing about paying for something at a point of sale that needs fixing with additional technology.
  - ripper1138 4y ago
    I guess it’s a matter of perspective. I’ve seen people fiddling with their purse/wallet searching for the right credit card, backing up the checkout line, while others breeze through with phones/watches that they already have in hand.
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      I guess, if it works for you. I don't even take my phone with me half the time if I'm just running to get milk and eggs.
    - 0max 4y ago
      Lolol, my experience with my Target card where I have to unlock my password manager, autofill my creds and scan a barcode, sounds just like the same kind of fumbling. Assigning Google Pay to my double press shortcut on my wake button is way less effort.
- enlyth 4y ago
  I cannot say I have ever encountered any of the problems you describe and I use Apple Pay daily to pay for everything. Just double tap the power button before paying and hold it to the terminal, it takes like 2 seconds.
  - kajecounterhack 4y ago
    I just switched from a Google Pixel 5 and while I still use Apple Pay, I've gotta say that fingerprint + scan is way faster than {double tap + faceid + scan}. The friction of Apple's approach is _almost_ enough to make me pull out my card instead depending on how well FaceID is working that day for me.
    - wenc 4y ago
      I wonder if the friction comes from holding the phone too far away when you're doing the Face ID scan. I double-tap and Face ID scan right in front of me first, then I hold it out and tap on the reader. It always works and there's hardly any delay. Fishing my credit card out of my back wallet takes 2 seconds longer. That said, nowadays I use my Apple Watch and that's even faster -- double click the side button, and tap. (No Face ID at all)
      - kajecounterhack 4y ago
        For me it's: 1. Long hair can sometimes get in my face, making FaceID unreliable 2. Camera angle in the "tap" position is not the angle it needs to be in for the FaceID unlock. I often double click then try to tap my phone, only to remember that I need to FaceID unlock.
        wenc 4y ago
        I can’t speak to 1 but for 2 the routine is auth first, tap later. Double click, hold up to face, then hold to reader. Also two things: if you’re willing to accept a less secure Face ID you can turn off attention (1). And if you’re paying for transit, you can turn on Express transit if supported on your provider — then it’s just tap, no need to auth. (1) https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/face-id-attention-iph646624222/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/face-id-attention-iph...
- jen20 4y ago
  By contrast, I do not carry a wallet typically, and Apple Pay on my watch is my standard approach. Places that don’t accept it just don’t get my business, and it is vastly quicker than searching through a wallet for the card I want.
- aareet 4y ago
  While I agree about the awkwardness of the phone, I’ve found my Apple Watch to be extremely convenient as a way to pay. Simply double click the side button without needing to look and tap it on the reader. Doesn’t get easier than that. And like someone else said, it makes having many payment options available without fattening your wallet. Costco for example, only takes Mastercards in canada and I don’t use the master card anywhere else
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I don't see the cost-benefit justification when an Apple watch costs $400-$800 and is (at least IMO) is yet another device to complicate my life and invade my privacy.
    - pb7 4y ago
      You must be a very important person. Better not go to any stores then because they have cameras everywhere that will invade your privacy too.
      - SoftTalker 4y ago
        One bad thing existing does not justify other bad things. And no, I'm a nobody.
    - BenFranklin100 4y ago
      The Apple Watch SE is $249, Series 8 is $400. Used version 5, 6 or 7’s can be had for $200. (I picked up a refurbished version 5 off Amazon for ~$200.) I find that the Apple Watch simplifies my life. I have all notifications turned off except for meeting reminders and texts from my spouse. I leave my phone at my desk and no longer carry it with me around thee house or work. Apple Pay works beautifully, allowing me to leave my phone at home to pop over to the grocery store. The timer is convenient for cooking and reminders. As a recreational runner, it has replaced my Garmin. The sleep tracker works well. To my knowledge, it transmits no additional data to Apple than the iPhone itself. And it keeps time. All in all, a worthy investment.
  - 4y ago
- henrikschroder 4y ago
  Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US, Apple Pay (and similar) came several years earlier. If you live in a place where tap cards came first, use of Apple Pay is much lower for obvious reasons. Since I got tap on my latest credit card I'm actually using it more than Apple Pay. Not because of convenience, but because there's zero reason for me to hand over my purchase information to Apple for free. All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal.
  - lowkey 4y ago
    One of the notable features of the Apple Card is that it is the only credit card available in America that promises not to sell your private information or transaction history. I would trust my data to Apple more than any other financial institution.
    - henrikschroder 4y ago
      Yeah, but this article is about Apple Pay, not Apple Card. If you have a card with someone else and you use Apple Pay, your information is sent to both Apple and your bank. If you just use the card, only your bank gets it. I can't stop my bank from doing whatever with the data, but there's no reason for Apple to get that data from me for free. Sure, it might be smarter to switch banks, but if you're unable to do that, why give Apple the data as well?
  - umeshunni 4y ago
    > Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US I've had cards with tap functionality since 2006 or so. And not any fancy card, my Amex Blue Cash has this in the late 2000s.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    > All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal. Ya, that’s why Apple Watches are so much easier for Apple Pay than using iPhones.
- atkailash 4y ago
  I occasionally have those frustrations but for me, leaving without my wallet is worth it. Most places I go I don’t need it unless I need my ID for booze or something (technically could pull that up on my phone but not sure who accepts it even when it’s actually valid legal ID)
  - bombolo 4y ago
    > when it’s actually valid legal ID Source on this very questionable statement?
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940 https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/07/iphone-wallet-ids-which-states/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/07/iphone-wallet-ids-which... https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first-states-to-adopt-drivers-licenses-and-state-ids-in-wallet/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first...
      - bombolo 4y ago
        > Earlier this year, Apple launched a feature allowing residents of participating U.S. states The state has to participate… The article lists 3 states, and a bar isn't a state.
        atkailash 4y ago
        [dead]
- WatchDog 4y ago
  I use apple pay a fair bit since it means I don't need to carry my wallet, but when I have my wallet with me, I do find it much more convenient to tap the card. Android lets you tap and pay without re-authenticating, I wish apple would allow the same. Apple pay on the web is also very convenient, whenever I visit some cafe that has a QR code menu, it saves me entering in my card details.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    Doesn't Apple let you pay without re-authenticating if you use an Apple Watch, so long as you don't take it off? I don't have one, but this is my recollection of their messaging.
    - cianmm 4y ago
      This is correct. Once you authenticate once on Apple Watch (either with PIN or by allowing your phone unlock it once you are wearing it) you can Apple Pay to your heart's content until you next take the watch off.
- dublinben 4y ago
  The user experience of Apple Pay on an iPhone with Touch ID is effortless. Apple really took a step backwards with FaceID. Couldn’t have been a worse time for it either.
  - wenc 4y ago
    I have the opposite experience. Touch ID doesn't work well in regions that experience cold dry winters -- when my fingers are dry, Touch ID doesn't read. (I have 5 fingerprints from different angles stored -- no dice). Not to mention it doesn't work when wearing gloves. Face ID on the other hand works almost all the time, even with a face mask on (iPhone 13 and later only)
    - bbarn 4y ago
      I'm with you. Touch ID is great for people in perfect climates who don't do anything difficult in their life. My entire motivation to upgrade from a touch ID phone to face ID is my main complaints with touch ID: 1 - it sucks with gloves, and I'm wearing gloves a lot either because it's cold or I'm riding a bike. I still get annoyed some gloves I can't tell it to "start" the unlock process but gross or not, my tongue does the job there to kick in face ID recognition. 2 - I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step.
      - ask_b123 4y ago
        > I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step. I haven't really used either of these, but maybe a solution could be created by setting up a custom Focus and then creating a Shortcut that activates with that focus and that does something to ensure the screen remains on; maybe a loop with a certain action or a change in settings. I am not sure since I haven't used shortcuts, just skimmed for a min before commenting.
      - OkGoDoIt 4y ago
- arthurofbabylon 4y ago
  I'm currently in a developing nation, unable to buy much variety of goods or services, and keenly aware of just how incredible it is to be discussing fractional seconds of transaction time for something that is – for me currently – either 1) several weeks of very expensive shipping away or 2) requires sending someone to the capital to train in the expertise. I don't mean to dismiss the attention to microseconds (I'm an advocate for continuous improvement, after all)... I'd just like to share this fresh/broad perspective.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    When you are standing in a line of people, and they're all waiting on you, there's a bit of pressure (real or imagined) to not be the one wasting everyone else's time. Given the option between tapping a card, which Just Works, and fussing with Apple Pay that (in their experience) doesn't, the obvious choice is to not bother with using apple pay. That's not to say that your perspective isn't informative, but rather that the original complaint likely comes from a place of social stress rather than fractional seconds being the issue.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      If they are in a developing country, QR code payments are more likely, which is like take out your phone, open your payment app and take a picture of the code…a lot more complex than Apple Pay or anything related to NFC, but also cheaper since the hardware is really cheap (just normal smart phones).
    - erikpukinskis 4y ago
      Imagined. No one is noticing how many seconds it takes you to pay. They notice if the cashier has to call a manager, or if you are using some coupon that doesn’t scan or something that interrupts the normal flow of a transaction. They’re not noticing that you’re taking 20 seconds to find a credit card or unlock your phone.
- jrmg 4y ago
  From your long description of the travails of using your phone with a terminal, I’m not sure you know this: you can double-click the power button at any time, and it will do Face ID and pre-approve a transaction - _then_ you can hold it to the terminal to pay. I’m imagining you, from the description, holding the phone to the terminal then trying to frame your face so that Face ID can see it - which works, but is as annoying as you seem to be describing.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Face ID is annoying but still better than card. Touch ID is best for payment.
- bbarn 4y ago
  Sorry, every complaint about apple pay is someone not using a watch on a card they use for most things. I lived in Europe the last three years up until moving back to the US recently, and in Europe, there was simply nothing easier than double clicking the watch button, and hovering over the NFC payment device. Even since moving back, I find it almost a rarity a place doesn't accept that and all it took was changing the primary card back to a US one. If you're on Apple's ecosystem, and not using the watch, you're missing out. All of the criticism of walled gardens are certainly relevant, but even with the iPhone only (or, hey, when I forget to charge the watch for two days) I can do the same thing with the same double click and the extra step of FaceId-ing the phone. Meanwhile card skimmers are no longer a fear, I don't have to put a zip code in to get gas in my car, and as a side benefit, most UI's on payment devices haven't figured out how to beg for tips with apple pay yet (yet). As I understand it the android experience is almost identical. I now only carry a single card, my debit card, which is a back up in case I really need cash for something and an ATM is my only option. I don't see anything inconvenient about that.
  - vxNsr 4y ago
    I just don’t want to have another thing to charge every day or two. Until Apple makes an eink watch or can somehow stretch the battery life to a week without compromising features I’m not interested. I have an amazfit bip with an e-ink screen that I last charged 27 days ago, still have 16% battery life, and it serves its main purpose of showing me notifications for my apps (mind you not all of them) and tracking my sleep and steps.
- benjaminwootton 4y ago
  Your complaint is about FaceID, not Apple Pay. I tap the side button twice, then enter a passcode whilst the cashier is scanning the items. I then scan my phone when it’s time. Maybe taking a card out is 3 seconds faster but I haven’t benchmarked.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > Digital transit cards like the new digital wallet clipper card in the bay area are cool though Until they say "oh yeah, today it doesn't work on Android".. or "it doesn't work on certain Androids"... what the actual fuck? San Francisco/Bay Area, tech capital of the world, can't get their shit transit's pass to be cross-platform? A month ago, two Android phones that both work for everything possible in multiple EU countries, one just doesn't work for Clipper, trying to use the card says "invalid card". And of course there is no check before you add money to it, so you're stuck with money on the card you can't get out of without going to one specific office that might be able to help you (different people said different things)
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    This is a weird thing I notice with a lot of American tech. Stuff first gets brought to market somewhere around Silicon Valley and amazing technologies are invented all across the country, but when it comes to reliably rolling out such tech it just seems to get stuck somewhere. Meanwhile over here in Europe we have to wait a couple of years for tech to come over, but when it finally does, it seems to work almost universally. You'd expect that stuff managed in software would get its patches way before European implementations receive them in their improved form, but it's as if this stuff just gets rolled out once in the USA and then never gets looked after again. I'd be incredibly frustrated seeing other countries get some frustrating details right when the tech was invented in my own country!
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  Everyone in the replies is talking about Apple and the Apple Watch. I personally have a Pixel 5A which has a dedicated fingerprint reader on the back. I unlock it before it even leaves my pocket, scan on the turnstile, and I'm through. No fucking around with face unlock. It's great. And I've tried the newer Pixel screen-embedded fingerprint unlock and it seems worse.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    Seconded. The fingerprint reader on the back was the ideal design, and the screen-embedded reader is objectively worse in ergonomics and reliability. And having the phone unlocked before it's even out of your pocket is so much less frictionless than clunky, gimmicky FaceID.
vl 4y ago
From the article: Apple introduced high-yield savings accounts. This is interesting, what would be the motivation for somebody to use this? Is return noticeably better than other institutions? Why Apple is doing it at all?
- rched 4y ago
  Yes. It's significantly better than the average interest rate of savings accounts in general. Most of the big banks have abysmal interest rates for savings accounts. That said there definitely are options that provide a bit higher rate than Apple. The other reason would likely just be convenience.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  Interestingly enough, there's a bit of a forced/easier savings as well for some folks. You can set your 'Daily Cash' (cashback you earn from an Apple Card) to deposit directly into the Savings account. It makes 'saving' a bit more seamless, and, indirectly, encourages spending on their Apple Card, I assume.
- TobyTheDog123 4y ago
  Yep. I moved my entire savings over there. 4.15% APY beats 0.01% APY any day of the week.
  - sergiomattei 4y ago
    I've been hesitant to do this for multiple reasons: - Does not work with budgeting apps yet (Mint.com in particular) - No web interface yet, no easy way to do transfers without your phone. Having my life savings tied to a phone... a bit odd. It's a regular ACH account, but it needs more conveniences around it that other banks already have. I love my Apple Card. I'm a huge fan of their app-first approach for everything, but a bank account is different. It should be easily accessible from any device. Other banks are doing this excellently and have been for years, just without the fantastic app factor. Discover Bank's savings is at 3.75%. Ally is at 4%. Both with good apps, decent web interfaces, work with budgeting apps, excellent support and high interest rates.
otterley 4y ago
I love Apple Pay. Being able to simply tap my watch to get through just about any MTA (New York City transit) turnstile makes every other public transit experience practically unbearable by comparison. The execution is flawless.
- jtokoph 4y ago
  This was doubly amazing in a recent vacation to Japan. We were able to provision a local transit card (Pasmo) from within the Wallet app and load funds with a credit card we already had in Wallet.
  - mb7733 4y ago
    In Vancouver you can just pay directly with your credit card or debit card (or google wallet, apple pay, whatever). No loading of a separate account. It's really handy if you're just visiting.
  - tkgally 4y ago
    Long-time Japan resident here. I haven’t travelled outside Japan for quite a while so I don’t have a good sense of how payments work in daily life elsewhere. Here, the big convenience store chains now accept a couple of dozen different types of contactless, swipe, or QR code payments [1, 2, 3 (in Japanese)]. However, cash is also widely used, and many smaller businesses still accept only cash [4, 5 (ditto)]. [1] https://www.sej.co.jp/services/cash.html https://www.sej.co.jp/services/cash.html [2] https://www.family.co.jp/services/payment.html https://www.family.co.jp/services/payment.html [3] https://www.lawson.co.jp/service/payment/settlement/index.html https://www.lawson.co.jp/service/payment/settlement/index.ht... [4] https://www.caa.go.jp/policies/policy/consumer_policy/meeting_materials/assets/internet_committee_221021_02.pdf https://www.caa.go.jp/policies/policy/consumer_policy/meetin... [5] https://dentsu-ho.com/articles/8187 https://dentsu-ho.com/articles/8187
- Freedom2 4y ago
  > every other This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world, for a long time, before the MTA introduced it, with similar flawless execution. Just off the top of my head, London, Singapore, Sydney, Japan and South Korea. I remember when Americans were initially hostile to NFC payments almost a decade ago, but I guess times change?
hnbear 4y ago
Recently in a conversation with my daughter (16) taking about how much cash she had on hand to spend I was confused until I realized her use of “wallet” meant Apple Wallet, and physical cash is something off in her room in a drawer somewhere. Having come into banking age with Apple Cash and a Chase debit card both in her Apple Wallet she treats that as first-party financial transactions and anything not tap to pay is written off as archaic. I think kids growing will be happy without any physical cards and banking will all be app driven. It’s only having grown up needing something to carry all my physical cards that I treat that as my primary wallet. And I’m now Apple Pay first, and then keep a debit card, a credit card and my drivers license in a MagSafe wallet on my phone. Everything else is in a drawer at home. Even specialist cards like ny health and transit FSA cards are in Apple Wallet. I can pay for NYC MetroNorth and MTA subway fares on an FSA card through Apple Pay which cuts down on the misc single use cards I’ve had to carry. Even things like COVID ID are electronic in Apple Wallet. It’s fantastic to cut it all down.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  I’m oldish, and no longer carry around a wallet. I don’t even whip out a phone to play for things, I just tap my watch. This was after 9 years in China, where, given that WeChat payments wouldn’t support foreigners without Chinese ID cards yet, I carried around wads of RMB the whole time. I also have a MagSafe wallet. But if Washington state would support digital driver licenses and Seattle metro had a wallet based transit pay app, I wouldn’t really need that either.
  - asplake 4y ago
    Also oldish. In our household we refer to coins as “parking tokens”, but even that usage is becoming obsolete (notwithstanding that parking machine UX is too often a horror show)
    - zamnos 4y ago
      I've taken it for granted that my parking meters take credit card at the meter (or at the payment machine), but on top of that there's an app/website and you can plug in the serial number of the parking space to pay.
rswail 4y ago
It's hilarious (in a way) seeing USians comment on this post. The rest of the world has had contactless payment for at least a decade. As an explanation, there are two different things called "Apple Pay" in the US. One is the use of the secure element/wallet in an iPhone/watch to store an EMV card that is tokenized. The other is the Apple branded credit card issued by Goldman Sachs. Leaving aside the branded credit card, the Apple Pay process is a standard that Apple worked with Visa/MC (and Google and Samsung) to develop. Essentially, a customer of a bank enrolls their card into Apple/Google/Samsung Pay and there is a tokenization service that provisions the phone Secure Element with an EMV "application" and the tokenized card. The card has a different number to the actual issued card, maintaining the first 6 (issuer ID) and last 4 digits of the issued card (CPAN - Customer Primary Account Number) to establish a "DPAN". When the phone is tapped, as far as the reader is concerned, it is a standard EMV card. The reader will go through its standard business rules for floor limits, PINs etc and process the transaction. The merchant only gets the "6+4" digits of the card, the DPAN is sent over the network to the tokenization service, which translates the DPAN to the CPAN and sends the transaction to the issuing bank for authentication and payment. The lack of being able to get the "real" CPAN is why some US merchants still refuse Apple/Google/Samsung Pay, specifically because they lose the ability to track customers. The problem in the US, is instead of going to "Chip + PIN" like the rest of the world, the US went to "Chip + Signature" which removes the benefits of Chip+PIN in terms of fraud reduction etc.
- 27fingies 4y ago
  eh, apple pay's been available for 9 years now. ROW had more POS's that were ready to go day 1 because of the existing contactless support but if you had a supported US bank you could use it.
  - rswail 4y ago
    Rest-of-the-world had Visa/MC forcing merchants to upgrade on a faster schedule than the US, because the US card environment has many more middle-man processors in the mix that would lose their slice of the transactions. Also large retailers that "self-acquired" didn't want to invest in upgraded readers, or lose access to the card details. Breaches like Target's where a bunch of actual CPANs and customer details were stolen started to force the US to upgrade. Enforcing PCI compliance of separation and encryption of CHI has also forced US companies and banks to upgrade.
kindawinda 4y ago
everybody in here who states a bank / financial institution's rates and then says 'there are better out there' without listing the name is greedy, a bot, or a wetard.
black_13 4y ago
[dead]
snake_doc 4y ago
This is the one of the last ultimate service plays (the best one remains to be healthcare, which they are working on) in the shift to service transition. If your savings are on Apple Wallet, you will be not switch away from an iPhone for many years. The average deposit duration is 7 years, used by banks to manage risk. This “lock” is better than any carrier 24-36mo agreement. Healthcare obviously would be groundbreaking, if you depend on your phone for healthcare (it would be potentially life long…). So regardless if they make money on these services, they’ll continue to make more money on devices.
- smileybarry 4y ago
  I guess this is why Apple Card is only on iPhones, despite the tech existing in every Apple iPad & Mac by now. Otherwise you could maintain your Apple “subscription” over a $400 iPad or a $600 Mac mini, which (arguably) “age” much slower.
testmasterflex 4y ago
I’m super annoyed when websites still ask me for card details and can’t implement proper browser auto fill. Is there a way I can get rid of all my physical cards and have them securely on my iPhone without saving the details in cleartext in a note?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gorbypark 4y ago
  Both my Canadian and Spanish banks have the ability to show me my card details in the banking apps themselves. I pretty much rely on my phone for everything here in Spain (even most ATMs even have “tap” NFC abilities) so getting card details in an app is convenient for online purchases, instead of finding the card itself. Both my banks have the card details behind the login screen (faceID or user/pass) to just open the app, and then a PIN to see the details, so it feels fairly secure.
- tempoponet 4y ago
  Lastpass and other password managers have this ability. It's great for other random data like account numbers, driver's license number, car vin, anything else.
- neilalexander 4y ago
  Safari AutoFill items are stored encrypted in the Keychain and require either the device passcode, Face ID or Touch ID to be accessed again. macOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/safari/ibrw1103/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/safari/ibrw1103/mac iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphccfb450b7/ios https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphccfb450b7/io...
- psadri 4y ago
  Apple Pay and some other payment methods generate a single-use token per transaction which is much safer than sharing you raw credit card number with a merchant. The token can only be used once for that particular transaction.
Eumenes 4y ago
cash > everything
feygeubdjvf 4y ago
the second this is popular worldwide, not an US curiosity, it won't be able to handle crime. first thing I'd start is a public camera collecting face metrics and images, and then associating them with the iphone radio (plent to chose from) then criminals who steal a phone could buy the face unlock info after uploading a radio sample.
vrglvrglvrgl 4y ago
[dead]
oldandboring 4y ago
I'm 42 and live in the US. I have Google Pay/Wallet all wired up, and I even have Garmin Pay on my smartwatch. It all works just fine but most of the time I still just take out my credit card and tap it. It objectively takes less time than unlocking my phone or watch, and it works 100% of the time. I can't stop carrying the cards anyway because a lot of places still don't accept tap/EV (including Walmart and Lowes).
- cptskippy 4y ago
  > and tap it I've been trying to do this only to discover the location you need to tap is inconsistent and never clearly marked. I usually try once then insert it in the slot.
  - oldandboring 4y ago
    Good point. I find this is a problem when I'm somewhere new and I'm not used to their point-of-sale device. But (like many people I assume) I make many of my purchases at the same few spots (grocery store etc) and I know where to tap for those.
    - cptskippy 4y ago
      I drove to the grocery store yesterday and realized that I forgot my wallet. I decided to gamble that Tap-to-Pay was available and would work. I was able to complete my purchase but not before playing the where to tap game. I think my Android phone's NFC coil is smack in the middle, which requires moving my hand from a cupping to clawing hold while keeping the screen on and not touching it. Then slowly rubbing it around the POS terminal starting first with the Tap-to-Pay logo until the screen on my phone indicates it's talking. Android manufacturers really need to work on the placement of NFC coils. Since cameras are on the top right corner of the phone, they should place the coils in the top left. I know Apple's coil is near the top but I've never used an iPhone for T2P so I'm not sure how much that improves the experience. Knowing Apple it's better, I can't imagine they could find a way to make it worse.
- prng2021 4y ago
psadri 4y ago
Shameless plug: Gamma Pay [0] enables accepting Apple Pay on Chrome and other non-Safari desktop browsers. [0] https://gamma-pay.com/ https://gamma-pay.com/
KittenPassingBy 4y ago
The shops in my area that used to be cash only mostly switched over to tap / card only. For a while, the cash only places were the targets of choice for break ins and robberies. Even my wife who used to prefer cash and checks switched over to mostly digital payment after her locker got broken into at the gym.

108 points by lxm 4y ago

https://archive.is/ULJBh https://archive.is/ULJBh

Sorry if this isn’t directly relevant to the article. It’s paywalled, so I can’t read it, but perhaps this is a good place to vent anyway. My issue with Apple Pay is that it’s more tedious than just using a credit card. Especially with tap to pay, I can pull a credit card out of my wallet and tap it on the reader in a second or two. Apple Pay requires me to tap my phone to the terminal, hold it aligned to my face for a few seconds, maybe it will succeed or maybe I’ll have to redo it or type in my alphanumeric password, and I need to select the card I want which is a swipe and then another tap or two (it always assumes I want the default card, which is not always the case), and then I need to re-tap it on the terminal again. I also sometimes need to double tap the power button, but not always. And sometimes I accidentally turn it off when I am pressing the power button, and then I have to start over. I’ve tried it many times (at one point I had a business debit card that was shared among multiple people so we all just used digital copies of it), and it always feels awkward and time-consuming and like I’m holding up the line behind me. I really don’t understand the appeal. Digital transit cards like the new digital wallet clipper card in the bay area are cool though. I definitely see the appeal of that. I happily used one for a few months, and then I upgraded to a new iPhone and it didn’t transfer over during the transfer process. Still haven’t figured out if it’s possible to transfer it over or not. So I tried signing up for a new digital clipper card, but I lost cell signal during the process, and now it’s stuck in some weird half signed up state where I paid $20 but the Apple wallet app won’t actually activate the card or let me start over. It’s been like this for a couple months now. So back to physical clipper cards for me. Sometimes new technology is really just overcomplicating things.

randomopining 4y ago
If you already have your phone in your hand it’s faster for sure come on
- OkGoDoIt 4y ago
  Between the face ID part, the awkward interaction for selecting the card, and the inconsistency for loading the wallet app, I disagree in my personal experience. Plus, how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere? Realistically, I’m either taking my phone out of one pocket or my wallet out of a different pocket, there’s not a huge difference in time or effort. And one of them I know will work quickly and seamlessly, the other one works most of the time with a few extra steps.
  - augment003 4y ago
    > the awkward interaction for selecting the card Do you juggle a lot of different cards? My guess is that most people have a default. > how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere? Pretty much always when I’ve been in line at the grocery store.
    - ripper1138 4y ago
      I agree with you. My guess is these people are a bit older and have different habits. Also lmao at “awkward interaction for selecting the card” as if people don’t have to select the card out of their physical wallet in the same way?
  - comex 4y ago
    Personally, I sometimes have my phone in my hand already. If I don't, then I can usually use my Apple Watch. If not, then yes, Apple Pay with Face ID is a bit inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as carrying around a wallet everywhere would be. In the past, I encountered credit card readers that wouldn't work with Apple Pay often enough that walking around without a physical credit card felt like a gamble. These days it doesn't.
- 4y ago
gnicholas 4y ago
Yeah, using Apple Pay isn't a slam dunk if you have one card you use for everything, and always have with you. Where it shines is that it can relieve you from having to carry around three credit cards (gas, grocery, everything else), a warehouse membership card, retail club card, etc.
- OkGoDoIt 4y ago
  Yeah, the only reason I use it at all is for my less frequently used cards for special purposes. Cards I wouldn’t normally carry with me in my wallet, but it’s nice to have in case I randomly need them. So it’s nice to have the option, I just don’t understand how anyone would expect Apple Pay to replace the simplicity of credit cards for normal high-volume transactions.
  - speg 4y ago
    This is so alien to me. I’ve been using Apple Pay for years. I don’t even know where my wallet is half the time. I certainly don’t carry it on my person. If you have an Apple Watch it’s even faster.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Thanks -- I have a iPhone but don't use Apple Pay. No way do I want to connect my phone to my bank account, and in any other respect I have not been able to imagine how it's better than a credit card. I've seen people fiddling with their phones trying to pay for stuff, reminds me of the days when you'd get behind someone trying to write out a check. > Sometimes new technology is really just overcomplicating things. Wholeheartedly agree. There's nothing about paying for something at a point of sale that needs fixing with additional technology.
- ripper1138 4y ago
  I guess it’s a matter of perspective. I’ve seen people fiddling with their purse/wallet searching for the right credit card, backing up the checkout line, while others breeze through with phones/watches that they already have in hand.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I guess, if it works for you. I don't even take my phone with me half the time if I'm just running to get milk and eggs.
  - 0max 4y ago
    Lolol, my experience with my Target card where I have to unlock my password manager, autofill my creds and scan a barcode, sounds just like the same kind of fumbling. Assigning Google Pay to my double press shortcut on my wake button is way less effort.
enlyth 4y ago
I cannot say I have ever encountered any of the problems you describe and I use Apple Pay daily to pay for everything. Just double tap the power button before paying and hold it to the terminal, it takes like 2 seconds.
- kajecounterhack 4y ago
  I just switched from a Google Pixel 5 and while I still use Apple Pay, I've gotta say that fingerprint + scan is way faster than {double tap + faceid + scan}. The friction of Apple's approach is _almost_ enough to make me pull out my card instead depending on how well FaceID is working that day for me.
  - wenc 4y ago
    I wonder if the friction comes from holding the phone too far away when you're doing the Face ID scan. I double-tap and Face ID scan right in front of me first, then I hold it out and tap on the reader. It always works and there's hardly any delay. Fishing my credit card out of my back wallet takes 2 seconds longer. That said, nowadays I use my Apple Watch and that's even faster -- double click the side button, and tap. (No Face ID at all)
    - kajecounterhack 4y ago
      For me it's: 1. Long hair can sometimes get in my face, making FaceID unreliable 2. Camera angle in the "tap" position is not the angle it needs to be in for the FaceID unlock. I often double click then try to tap my phone, only to remember that I need to FaceID unlock.
      - wenc 4y ago
        I can’t speak to 1 but for 2 the routine is auth first, tap later. Double click, hold up to face, then hold to reader. Also two things: if you’re willing to accept a less secure Face ID you can turn off attention (1). And if you’re paying for transit, you can turn on Express transit if supported on your provider — then it’s just tap, no need to auth. (1) https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/face-id-attention-iph646624222/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/face-id-attention-iph...
jen20 4y ago
By contrast, I do not carry a wallet typically, and Apple Pay on my watch is my standard approach. Places that don’t accept it just don’t get my business, and it is vastly quicker than searching through a wallet for the card I want.
aareet 4y ago
While I agree about the awkwardness of the phone, I’ve found my Apple Watch to be extremely convenient as a way to pay. Simply double click the side button without needing to look and tap it on the reader. Doesn’t get easier than that. And like someone else said, it makes having many payment options available without fattening your wallet. Costco for example, only takes Mastercards in canada and I don’t use the master card anywhere else
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I don't see the cost-benefit justification when an Apple watch costs $400-$800 and is (at least IMO) is yet another device to complicate my life and invade my privacy.
  - pb7 4y ago
    You must be a very important person. Better not go to any stores then because they have cameras everywhere that will invade your privacy too.
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      One bad thing existing does not justify other bad things. And no, I'm a nobody.
  - BenFranklin100 4y ago
    The Apple Watch SE is $249, Series 8 is $400. Used version 5, 6 or 7’s can be had for $200. (I picked up a refurbished version 5 off Amazon for ~$200.) I find that the Apple Watch simplifies my life. I have all notifications turned off except for meeting reminders and texts from my spouse. I leave my phone at my desk and no longer carry it with me around thee house or work. Apple Pay works beautifully, allowing me to leave my phone at home to pop over to the grocery store. The timer is convenient for cooking and reminders. As a recreational runner, it has replaced my Garmin. The sleep tracker works well. To my knowledge, it transmits no additional data to Apple than the iPhone itself. And it keeps time. All in all, a worthy investment.
- 4y ago
henrikschroder 4y ago
Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US, Apple Pay (and similar) came several years earlier. If you live in a place where tap cards came first, use of Apple Pay is much lower for obvious reasons. Since I got tap on my latest credit card I'm actually using it more than Apple Pay. Not because of convenience, but because there's zero reason for me to hand over my purchase information to Apple for free. All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal.
- lowkey 4y ago
  One of the notable features of the Apple Card is that it is the only credit card available in America that promises not to sell your private information or transaction history. I would trust my data to Apple more than any other financial institution.
  - henrikschroder 4y ago
    Yeah, but this article is about Apple Pay, not Apple Card. If you have a card with someone else and you use Apple Pay, your information is sent to both Apple and your bank. If you just use the card, only your bank gets it. I can't stop my bank from doing whatever with the data, but there's no reason for Apple to get that data from me for free. Sure, it might be smarter to switch banks, but if you're unable to do that, why give Apple the data as well?
- umeshunni 4y ago
  > Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US I've had cards with tap functionality since 2006 or so. And not any fancy card, my Amex Blue Cash has this in the late 2000s.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  > All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal. Ya, that’s why Apple Watches are so much easier for Apple Pay than using iPhones.
atkailash 4y ago
I occasionally have those frustrations but for me, leaving without my wallet is worth it. Most places I go I don’t need it unless I need my ID for booze or something (technically could pull that up on my phone but not sure who accepts it even when it’s actually valid legal ID)
- bombolo 4y ago
  > when it’s actually valid legal ID Source on this very questionable statement?
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940 https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/07/iphone-wallet-ids-which-states/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/07/iphone-wallet-ids-which... https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first-states-to-adopt-drivers-licenses-and-state-ids-in-wallet/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first...
    - bombolo 4y ago
      > Earlier this year, Apple launched a feature allowing residents of participating U.S. states The state has to participate… The article lists 3 states, and a bar isn't a state.
      - atkailash 4y ago
        [dead]
WatchDog 4y ago
I use apple pay a fair bit since it means I don't need to carry my wallet, but when I have my wallet with me, I do find it much more convenient to tap the card. Android lets you tap and pay without re-authenticating, I wish apple would allow the same. Apple pay on the web is also very convenient, whenever I visit some cafe that has a QR code menu, it saves me entering in my card details.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Doesn't Apple let you pay without re-authenticating if you use an Apple Watch, so long as you don't take it off? I don't have one, but this is my recollection of their messaging.
  - cianmm 4y ago
    This is correct. Once you authenticate once on Apple Watch (either with PIN or by allowing your phone unlock it once you are wearing it) you can Apple Pay to your heart's content until you next take the watch off.
dublinben 4y ago
The user experience of Apple Pay on an iPhone with Touch ID is effortless. Apple really took a step backwards with FaceID. Couldn’t have been a worse time for it either.
- wenc 4y ago
  I have the opposite experience. Touch ID doesn't work well in regions that experience cold dry winters -- when my fingers are dry, Touch ID doesn't read. (I have 5 fingerprints from different angles stored -- no dice). Not to mention it doesn't work when wearing gloves. Face ID on the other hand works almost all the time, even with a face mask on (iPhone 13 and later only)
  - bbarn 4y ago
    I'm with you. Touch ID is great for people in perfect climates who don't do anything difficult in their life. My entire motivation to upgrade from a touch ID phone to face ID is my main complaints with touch ID: 1 - it sucks with gloves, and I'm wearing gloves a lot either because it's cold or I'm riding a bike. I still get annoyed some gloves I can't tell it to "start" the unlock process but gross or not, my tongue does the job there to kick in face ID recognition. 2 - I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step.
    - ask_b123 4y ago
      > I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step. I haven't really used either of these, but maybe a solution could be created by setting up a custom Focus and then creating a Shortcut that activates with that focus and that does something to ensure the screen remains on; maybe a loop with a certain action or a change in settings. I am not sure since I haven't used shortcuts, just skimmed for a min before commenting.
    - OkGoDoIt 4y ago
arthurofbabylon 4y ago
I'm currently in a developing nation, unable to buy much variety of goods or services, and keenly aware of just how incredible it is to be discussing fractional seconds of transaction time for something that is – for me currently – either 1) several weeks of very expensive shipping away or 2) requires sending someone to the capital to train in the expertise. I don't mean to dismiss the attention to microseconds (I'm an advocate for continuous improvement, after all)... I'd just like to share this fresh/broad perspective.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  When you are standing in a line of people, and they're all waiting on you, there's a bit of pressure (real or imagined) to not be the one wasting everyone else's time. Given the option between tapping a card, which Just Works, and fussing with Apple Pay that (in their experience) doesn't, the obvious choice is to not bother with using apple pay. That's not to say that your perspective isn't informative, but rather that the original complaint likely comes from a place of social stress rather than fractional seconds being the issue.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    If they are in a developing country, QR code payments are more likely, which is like take out your phone, open your payment app and take a picture of the code…a lot more complex than Apple Pay or anything related to NFC, but also cheaper since the hardware is really cheap (just normal smart phones).
  - erikpukinskis 4y ago
    Imagined. No one is noticing how many seconds it takes you to pay. They notice if the cashier has to call a manager, or if you are using some coupon that doesn’t scan or something that interrupts the normal flow of a transaction. They’re not noticing that you’re taking 20 seconds to find a credit card or unlock your phone.
jrmg 4y ago
From your long description of the travails of using your phone with a terminal, I’m not sure you know this: you can double-click the power button at any time, and it will do Face ID and pre-approve a transaction - _then_ you can hold it to the terminal to pay. I’m imagining you, from the description, holding the phone to the terminal then trying to frame your face so that Face ID can see it - which works, but is as annoying as you seem to be describing.
fomine3 4y ago
Face ID is annoying but still better than card. Touch ID is best for payment.
bbarn 4y ago
Sorry, every complaint about apple pay is someone not using a watch on a card they use for most things. I lived in Europe the last three years up until moving back to the US recently, and in Europe, there was simply nothing easier than double clicking the watch button, and hovering over the NFC payment device. Even since moving back, I find it almost a rarity a place doesn't accept that and all it took was changing the primary card back to a US one. If you're on Apple's ecosystem, and not using the watch, you're missing out. All of the criticism of walled gardens are certainly relevant, but even with the iPhone only (or, hey, when I forget to charge the watch for two days) I can do the same thing with the same double click and the extra step of FaceId-ing the phone. Meanwhile card skimmers are no longer a fear, I don't have to put a zip code in to get gas in my car, and as a side benefit, most UI's on payment devices haven't figured out how to beg for tips with apple pay yet (yet). As I understand it the android experience is almost identical. I now only carry a single card, my debit card, which is a back up in case I really need cash for something and an ATM is my only option. I don't see anything inconvenient about that.
- vxNsr 4y ago
  I just don’t want to have another thing to charge every day or two. Until Apple makes an eink watch or can somehow stretch the battery life to a week without compromising features I’m not interested. I have an amazfit bip with an e-ink screen that I last charged 27 days ago, still have 16% battery life, and it serves its main purpose of showing me notifications for my apps (mind you not all of them) and tracking my sleep and steps.
benjaminwootton 4y ago
Your complaint is about FaceID, not Apple Pay. I tap the side button twice, then enter a passcode whilst the cashier is scanning the items. I then scan my phone when it’s time. Maybe taking a card out is 3 seconds faster but I haven’t benchmarked.
sofixa 4y ago
> Digital transit cards like the new digital wallet clipper card in the bay area are cool though Until they say "oh yeah, today it doesn't work on Android".. or "it doesn't work on certain Androids"... what the actual fuck? San Francisco/Bay Area, tech capital of the world, can't get their shit transit's pass to be cross-platform? A month ago, two Android phones that both work for everything possible in multiple EU countries, one just doesn't work for Clipper, trying to use the card says "invalid card". And of course there is no check before you add money to it, so you're stuck with money on the card you can't get out of without going to one specific office that might be able to help you (different people said different things)
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  This is a weird thing I notice with a lot of American tech. Stuff first gets brought to market somewhere around Silicon Valley and amazing technologies are invented all across the country, but when it comes to reliably rolling out such tech it just seems to get stuck somewhere. Meanwhile over here in Europe we have to wait a couple of years for tech to come over, but when it finally does, it seems to work almost universally. You'd expect that stuff managed in software would get its patches way before European implementations receive them in their improved form, but it's as if this stuff just gets rolled out once in the USA and then never gets looked after again. I'd be incredibly frustrated seeing other countries get some frustrating details right when the tech was invented in my own country!
wildrhythms 4y ago
Everyone in the replies is talking about Apple and the Apple Watch. I personally have a Pixel 5A which has a dedicated fingerprint reader on the back. I unlock it before it even leaves my pocket, scan on the turnstile, and I'm through. No fucking around with face unlock. It's great. And I've tried the newer Pixel screen-embedded fingerprint unlock and it seems worse.
- kibwen 4y ago
  Seconded. The fingerprint reader on the back was the ideal design, and the screen-embedded reader is objectively worse in ergonomics and reliability. And having the phone unlocked before it's even out of your pocket is so much less frictionless than clunky, gimmicky FaceID.

vl 4y ago

From the article: Apple introduced high-yield savings accounts. This is interesting, what would be the motivation for somebody to use this? Is return noticeably better than other institutions? Why Apple is doing it at all?

rched 4y ago
Yes. It's significantly better than the average interest rate of savings accounts in general. Most of the big banks have abysmal interest rates for savings accounts. That said there definitely are options that provide a bit higher rate than Apple. The other reason would likely just be convenience.
Kirby64 4y ago
Interestingly enough, there's a bit of a forced/easier savings as well for some folks. You can set your 'Daily Cash' (cashback you earn from an Apple Card) to deposit directly into the Savings account. It makes 'saving' a bit more seamless, and, indirectly, encourages spending on their Apple Card, I assume.
TobyTheDog123 4y ago
Yep. I moved my entire savings over there. 4.15% APY beats 0.01% APY any day of the week.
- sergiomattei 4y ago
  I've been hesitant to do this for multiple reasons: - Does not work with budgeting apps yet (Mint.com in particular) - No web interface yet, no easy way to do transfers without your phone. Having my life savings tied to a phone... a bit odd. It's a regular ACH account, but it needs more conveniences around it that other banks already have. I love my Apple Card. I'm a huge fan of their app-first approach for everything, but a bank account is different. It should be easily accessible from any device. Other banks are doing this excellently and have been for years, just without the fantastic app factor. Discover Bank's savings is at 3.75%. Ally is at 4%. Both with good apps, decent web interfaces, work with budgeting apps, excellent support and high interest rates.

otterley 4y ago

I love Apple Pay. Being able to simply tap my watch to get through just about any MTA (New York City transit) turnstile makes every other public transit experience practically unbearable by comparison. The execution is flawless.

jtokoph 4y ago
This was doubly amazing in a recent vacation to Japan. We were able to provision a local transit card (Pasmo) from within the Wallet app and load funds with a credit card we already had in Wallet.
- mb7733 4y ago
  In Vancouver you can just pay directly with your credit card or debit card (or google wallet, apple pay, whatever). No loading of a separate account. It's really handy if you're just visiting.
- tkgally 4y ago
  Long-time Japan resident here. I haven’t travelled outside Japan for quite a while so I don’t have a good sense of how payments work in daily life elsewhere. Here, the big convenience store chains now accept a couple of dozen different types of contactless, swipe, or QR code payments [1, 2, 3 (in Japanese)]. However, cash is also widely used, and many smaller businesses still accept only cash [4, 5 (ditto)]. [1] https://www.sej.co.jp/services/cash.html https://www.sej.co.jp/services/cash.html [2] https://www.family.co.jp/services/payment.html https://www.family.co.jp/services/payment.html [3] https://www.lawson.co.jp/service/payment/settlement/index.html https://www.lawson.co.jp/service/payment/settlement/index.ht... [4] https://www.caa.go.jp/policies/policy/consumer_policy/meeting_materials/assets/internet_committee_221021_02.pdf https://www.caa.go.jp/policies/policy/consumer_policy/meetin... [5] https://dentsu-ho.com/articles/8187 https://dentsu-ho.com/articles/8187
Freedom2 4y ago
> every other This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world, for a long time, before the MTA introduced it, with similar flawless execution. Just off the top of my head, London, Singapore, Sydney, Japan and South Korea. I remember when Americans were initially hostile to NFC payments almost a decade ago, but I guess times change?

hnbear 4y ago

Recently in a conversation with my daughter (16) taking about how much cash she had on hand to spend I was confused until I realized her use of “wallet” meant Apple Wallet, and physical cash is something off in her room in a drawer somewhere. Having come into banking age with Apple Cash and a Chase debit card both in her Apple Wallet she treats that as first-party financial transactions and anything not tap to pay is written off as archaic. I think kids growing will be happy without any physical cards and banking will all be app driven. It’s only having grown up needing something to carry all my physical cards that I treat that as my primary wallet. And I’m now Apple Pay first, and then keep a debit card, a credit card and my drivers license in a MagSafe wallet on my phone. Everything else is in a drawer at home. Even specialist cards like ny health and transit FSA cards are in Apple Wallet. I can pay for NYC MetroNorth and MTA subway fares on an FSA card through Apple Pay which cuts down on the misc single use cards I’ve had to carry. Even things like COVID ID are electronic in Apple Wallet. It’s fantastic to cut it all down.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
I’m oldish, and no longer carry around a wallet. I don’t even whip out a phone to play for things, I just tap my watch. This was after 9 years in China, where, given that WeChat payments wouldn’t support foreigners without Chinese ID cards yet, I carried around wads of RMB the whole time. I also have a MagSafe wallet. But if Washington state would support digital driver licenses and Seattle metro had a wallet based transit pay app, I wouldn’t really need that either.
- asplake 4y ago
  Also oldish. In our household we refer to coins as “parking tokens”, but even that usage is becoming obsolete (notwithstanding that parking machine UX is too often a horror show)
  - zamnos 4y ago
    I've taken it for granted that my parking meters take credit card at the meter (or at the payment machine), but on top of that there's an app/website and you can plug in the serial number of the parking space to pay.

rswail 4y ago

It's hilarious (in a way) seeing USians comment on this post. The rest of the world has had contactless payment for at least a decade. As an explanation, there are two different things called "Apple Pay" in the US. One is the use of the secure element/wallet in an iPhone/watch to store an EMV card that is tokenized. The other is the Apple branded credit card issued by Goldman Sachs. Leaving aside the branded credit card, the Apple Pay process is a standard that Apple worked with Visa/MC (and Google and Samsung) to develop. Essentially, a customer of a bank enrolls their card into Apple/Google/Samsung Pay and there is a tokenization service that provisions the phone Secure Element with an EMV "application" and the tokenized card. The card has a different number to the actual issued card, maintaining the first 6 (issuer ID) and last 4 digits of the issued card (CPAN - Customer Primary Account Number) to establish a "DPAN". When the phone is tapped, as far as the reader is concerned, it is a standard EMV card. The reader will go through its standard business rules for floor limits, PINs etc and process the transaction. The merchant only gets the "6+4" digits of the card, the DPAN is sent over the network to the tokenization service, which translates the DPAN to the CPAN and sends the transaction to the issuing bank for authentication and payment. The lack of being able to get the "real" CPAN is why some US merchants still refuse Apple/Google/Samsung Pay, specifically because they lose the ability to track customers. The problem in the US, is instead of going to "Chip + PIN" like the rest of the world, the US went to "Chip + Signature" which removes the benefits of Chip+PIN in terms of fraud reduction etc.

27fingies 4y ago
eh, apple pay's been available for 9 years now. ROW had more POS's that were ready to go day 1 because of the existing contactless support but if you had a supported US bank you could use it.
- rswail 4y ago
  Rest-of-the-world had Visa/MC forcing merchants to upgrade on a faster schedule than the US, because the US card environment has many more middle-man processors in the mix that would lose their slice of the transactions. Also large retailers that "self-acquired" didn't want to invest in upgraded readers, or lose access to the card details. Breaches like Target's where a bunch of actual CPANs and customer details were stolen started to force the US to upgrade. Enforcing PCI compliance of separation and encryption of CHI has also forced US companies and banks to upgrade.

kindawinda 4y ago

everybody in here who states a bank / financial institution's rates and then says 'there are better out there' without listing the name is greedy, a bot, or a wetard.

black_13 4y ago

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snake_doc 4y ago

This is the one of the last ultimate service plays (the best one remains to be healthcare, which they are working on) in the shift to service transition. If your savings are on Apple Wallet, you will be not switch away from an iPhone for many years. The average deposit duration is 7 years, used by banks to manage risk. This “lock” is better than any carrier 24-36mo agreement. Healthcare obviously would be groundbreaking, if you depend on your phone for healthcare (it would be potentially life long…). So regardless if they make money on these services, they’ll continue to make more money on devices.

smileybarry 4y ago
I guess this is why Apple Card is only on iPhones, despite the tech existing in every Apple iPad & Mac by now. Otherwise you could maintain your Apple “subscription” over a $400 iPad or a $600 Mac mini, which (arguably) “age” much slower.

testmasterflex 4y ago

I’m super annoyed when websites still ask me for card details and can’t implement proper browser auto fill. Is there a way I can get rid of all my physical cards and have them securely on my iPhone without saving the details in cleartext in a note?

deleted 4y ago
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gorbypark 4y ago
Both my Canadian and Spanish banks have the ability to show me my card details in the banking apps themselves. I pretty much rely on my phone for everything here in Spain (even most ATMs even have “tap” NFC abilities) so getting card details in an app is convenient for online purchases, instead of finding the card itself. Both my banks have the card details behind the login screen (faceID or user/pass) to just open the app, and then a PIN to see the details, so it feels fairly secure.
tempoponet 4y ago
Lastpass and other password managers have this ability. It's great for other random data like account numbers, driver's license number, car vin, anything else.
neilalexander 4y ago
Safari AutoFill items are stored encrypted in the Keychain and require either the device passcode, Face ID or Touch ID to be accessed again. macOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/safari/ibrw1103/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/safari/ibrw1103/mac iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphccfb450b7/ios https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphccfb450b7/io...
psadri 4y ago
Apple Pay and some other payment methods generate a single-use token per transaction which is much safer than sharing you raw credit card number with a merchant. The token can only be used once for that particular transaction.

Eumenes 4y ago

cash > everything

feygeubdjvf 4y ago

the second this is popular worldwide, not an US curiosity, it won't be able to handle crime. first thing I'd start is a public camera collecting face metrics and images, and then associating them with the iphone radio (plent to chose from) then criminals who steal a phone could buy the face unlock info after uploading a radio sample.

vrglvrglvrgl 4y ago

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oldandboring 4y ago

I'm 42 and live in the US. I have Google Pay/Wallet all wired up, and I even have Garmin Pay on my smartwatch. It all works just fine but most of the time I still just take out my credit card and tap it. It objectively takes less time than unlocking my phone or watch, and it works 100% of the time. I can't stop carrying the cards anyway because a lot of places still don't accept tap/EV (including Walmart and Lowes).

cptskippy 4y ago
> and tap it I've been trying to do this only to discover the location you need to tap is inconsistent and never clearly marked. I usually try once then insert it in the slot.
- oldandboring 4y ago
  Good point. I find this is a problem when I'm somewhere new and I'm not used to their point-of-sale device. But (like many people I assume) I make many of my purchases at the same few spots (grocery store etc) and I know where to tap for those.
  - cptskippy 4y ago
    I drove to the grocery store yesterday and realized that I forgot my wallet. I decided to gamble that Tap-to-Pay was available and would work. I was able to complete my purchase but not before playing the where to tap game. I think my Android phone's NFC coil is smack in the middle, which requires moving my hand from a cupping to clawing hold while keeping the screen on and not touching it. Then slowly rubbing it around the POS terminal starting first with the Tap-to-Pay logo until the screen on my phone indicates it's talking. Android manufacturers really need to work on the placement of NFC coils. Since cameras are on the top right corner of the phone, they should place the coils in the top left. I know Apple's coil is near the top but I've never used an iPhone for T2P so I'm not sure how much that improves the experience. Knowing Apple it's better, I can't imagine they could find a way to make it worse.
prng2021 4y ago

psadri 4y ago

Shameless plug: Gamma Pay [0] enables accepting Apple Pay on Chrome and other non-Safari desktop browsers. [0] https://gamma-pay.com/ https://gamma-pay.com/

KittenPassingBy 4y ago

The shops in my area that used to be cash only mostly switched over to tap / card only. For a while, the cash only places were the targets of choice for break ins and robberies. Even my wife who used to prefer cash and checks switched over to mostly digital payment after her locker got broken into at the gym.