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Monster Energy Goes After Indie Dev for Using the Word 'Monster'
- mikestew 4y agoI presume fellow trademark troll Monster Cables has struck a truce with Monster Energy? Much like Monster Cables, if you think there might be confusion between a video game and your chemical water, then I am confident that your product tastes like ass.
- Lio 4y agoMonster Energy, it's got electrolytes. Which as we all know, is what plants crave. This lawsuit is the definition of frivolous. It's the dumest trademark case since Condé Nast tried to suit a pub in the village of Vogue, Cornwall. That pub now has a framed apology on its wall.
- type0 4y agoIt's a monstrosity of a lawsuit, all pun intended
- TylerE 4y agoI wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Monster has their fingers in many, many pies, from clothing to live events, esports (very relevant to a video game). Here are two relevant marks, out of their hundreds: https://trademarks.justia.com/862/19/monster-86219332.html https://trademarks.justia.com/862/19/monster-86219332.html https://trademarks.justia.com/877/98/monstergaming-87798827.html https://trademarks.justia.com/877/98/monstergaming-87798827....
- Lio 4y agoNone of their business endeavours changes the fact that they’ve taken a generic word that’s been previously used in video games (…and movies and songs and literature) and tried to claimed sole usage of it going forward. That is obviously frivolously.
- olyjohn 4y agoPlease do not insult Brawndo by mistaking them for Monster Energy. That's just low.
- cogman10 4y agoI'm pretty sure Monster.com is in the list of trademark trolls for monster things.
- reiichiroh 4y agoDon’t they remember what happened to Monster Cable?
- Overtonwindow 4y agohttps://www.audioholics.com/editorials/monster https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/monster
- bell-cot 4y agoNext: Garpax Records goes after Monster Energy, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Mash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Mash
- chankstein38 4y agoDang I was just making that joke but you beat me to it haha
- schiffern 4y agoOr Warner Bros Records: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_(R.E.M._album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_(R.E.M._album) Great album, incidentally.
- LesZedCB 4y agothere's always a bigger fish ~ Qui-Gon Jinn
- m463 4y agoWonder if the creators of The Pod should go after apple: "Pod is a series of digital guitar amplifier modelers from Line 6." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pod_(amp_modeler) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pod_(amp_modeler) I suspect Apple legal goes after lots of "pod" things but doesn't kick this sleeping dog.
- chankstein38 4y agoWhat in the world? I thought trademarks and copyright law were based on market and context? Now just using the word monster is too much for Monster Energy? They're lucky Bobby Pickett let them use the word Monster for their chemical water company if these things can be applied this broadly...
- burnte 4y agoYeah, a good lawyer will actually be able to get Monster to settle, or at least win in court. This is a huge reach, no judge will ever say games and drinks are too closely related.
- onion2k 4y agoExcept... Monster sponsor a lot of gaming things, so they might have applied for and been granted ownership of "Monster" as a trademark, designmark, and copyright within the gaming market as well. Also, I think there's at least one Monster branded supercross video game. They also have https://twitter.com/MonsterGaming https://twitter.com/MonsterGaming Suggesting they only have drinks interests is not correct.
- schiffern 4y ago>I thought trademarks were based on market and context? They are. Monster Energy holds trademark SN 97273630,[0] which covers: "Downloadable virtual goods in the field of beverages, food, supplements, sports, gaming, music, and apparel" ...among many other things. [0] (basic search for 97273630, change "field" dropdown to serial number) https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search
- labrador 4y agoA local vegetarian restaurant in Santa Cruz called themselves McDharma's and McDonald's made them change it. I always thought that was strange.
- user3939382 4y agoThe reminds me of the time a friend of mine told me her polo club was being sued by Ralph Lauren for using the word polo. I wish I was kidding. * I believe there's something in trademark* law about being required to show some amount of effort defending your trademark. Maybe a lawyer can clarify. Is that getting translated by these corporate lawyers into harassing innocent people?
- kube-system 4y agoThere’s nothing in copyright law that pertains to trademark. They’re entirely separate things. But yes, trademarks can be invalidated if you do not defend them. Because the point of a trademark is to be a unique identifier for a particular good or service, to protect consumers against fraud or misrepresentation. If it isn’t a unique identifier because others are using it, then there is not a consumer protection reason to provide this exclusive use anymore. I think people often miss sight that the reason for a trademark isn’t the same as copyright. It’s not a protection of a creative work. It’s a protection of fair commerce.
- usrusr 4y agoAnd yet I've never heard a single word about any trademark issues suffered by the maker of a certain word processor due to insufficient lashing out against everybody who makes unrelated use of the word they happen to use as their product name.
- kube-system 4y agoNow you have! https://www.newsweek.com/microsoft-sues-mom-2-over-name-her-business-1737066 https://www.newsweek.com/microsoft-sues-mom-2-over-name-her-...
- usrusr 4y agoThanks. I keep forgetting that use and use in a product/business name are entirely different things when it comes to this game if calling dibs.
- duxup 4y agoJust searched the App Store… lots of “Monster” games out there. Many have scary “monster” like logos.
- Legion 4y agoA quick search of Steam reveals a long list of games that use the name Monster in their title even more prominently than Dark Deception: Monsters & Mortals does.
- nicholsonpk 4y agoTo expand on your idea, I tried searching "monster energy" thinking that maybe a fantasy game using an energy currency would show up this way, but I didn't see Dark Deception: Monsters & Mortals in about the first 200 results. Then I decided to check out their page directly and I now believe this wholly comes down to the font used in the logo: https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/1266690/header.jpg https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/1266690/header... I personally don't think it's close enough to cause issues but clearly Monster Energy does.
- musicale 4y agoMonster Train is one of my most played games on Steam. (And on Switch, especially in handheld mode.) And somehow I missed that it's on iOS as well - time to download that immediately! Monster Hunter: World would be on the list but I played it on console.
- perlpimp 4y agothats the thing about trademarks you have to defend them afaik otherwise they are worthless. I would venture these stupid suits are there in case some drink company will make a monster drink the defence would be better. ianal
- macintux 4y ago> A trademark owner doesn't need to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential. This is designed to prevent owners from continually being tied up in litigation for fear of cancellation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
- ncallaway 4y ago> thats the thing about trademarks you have to defend them afaik otherwise they are worthless. Well, that's what lawyers often say about trademark law. But, then again, their advice to to pay lawyers more money to deal with the situation. The reality is not nearly so cut and dried. You do have to police a trademark to some extent, and you can lose it for not policing it. So, it's not like the lawyers are lying. But any lawyer recommending action like this to "protect your trademark" is greatly exaggerating the risk in order to increase their billable hours.
- RankingMember 4y ago> ianal Is this sort of self-disclosure really suitable or relevant here?
- LesZedCB 4y agothere was a similarly ridiculous set of trademark cases with a common usage word with the online retailer backcountry.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backcountry.com#Lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backcountry.com#Lawsuits glad this dev is fighting and hope they win. i get the deal with trademark protection but seriously, this kind of shit is beyond inane.
- zahrc 4y agoIt baffles me how screwed the system is. It’s an exaggeration, but you have to be genuinely afraid to found a company with Apple in their name. “Apple Farm” might get sued by Apple. There should be a better process that involves a neutral party reviewing the claim and do sanity check if everyday names and items are used, before it actually becomes a lawsuit. But instead we let the bullies win, because they have the money.
- viraptor 4y agoThe judicial system is (supposed to be) that neutral party. You're trying to reinvent the judge/jury.
- kashunstva 4y agoHowever, in lieu of neutralizing the massive financial disparities between parties, the judicial system as it exists today amplifies their effects.
- failrate 4y agoYou can trademark a common word, but you are limited for the product categories in which you have a product in commerce. So, Apple Computers has no justification to pursue trademark claims for fruit farms. This story is notable, because it is an overreach by Monster Energy.
- spacedcowboy 4y agoAnd bluejeans - the ending of the 'our response' PDF is particularly satisfying https://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm https://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm Not quite as satisfying as Ian Hislop's letter to James Arkell (https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram) but still good.
- anigbrowl 4y agothere's a lot of situations where a trademark owner has to go through the motions of challenging a similar trade identity, because the failure to do so could have negative implications in future litigation, allowing infringers to claim that the lack of defense amounted to constructive abandonment. https://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/235 https://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/235
- vanillaicesquad 4y agoNowadays when you search lol its always league of legends when it used to be lot of laughs*. They are afraid one of this games becomes super popular and when you search monster on google there is not a single monster energy drink to be seen Edit: * or laughing out loud
- gnabgib 4y agoI feel like you've mashed Laugh(ing) Out Loud (still the common usage) and the sweeter/more innocent Lots of Love (from a time before the internet)
- vanillaicesquad 4y agoI am talking about what google outputs for a word. If you think about it Gooogle makes the battle for the meaning of a word more brutal than ever, as people look for words without context. If we were living in the old world this news would be insane, because whenever you would mention monster (the energy drink) or monsters (the game, at the game shop), the meaning would be clear by context. In todays world there is no context, so i think Monster (the energy drink) is not being as irrational as it would seem by the tone of this news item
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Adraghast 4y agoWhat’s it going to take to get Hacker News commenters to stop perpetuating the myth that trademark holders are required to be litigious assholes if they don’t want their trademarks to lapse?
- duxup 4y agoProbably people posting some helpful information about that?
- Adraghast 4y agohttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monster https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monster Hope this helps!
- duxup 4y agoNot really.
- happytoexplain 4y agoThis is a baffling response. You posited something very specific and interesting that other commenters are not touching on (that "must defend to retain" is exaggerated), but when asked about it, you responded with the same generic point as all the other commenters ("it's frivolous") - as though you had never even said the interesting thing in the first place.
- dang 4y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- Adraghast 4y ago[dead]
- clessg 4y agoJust wait until they find out about the increasingly popular "Pocket Monsters" game series. It's all the kids ever talk about these days!
- mansion7 4y agoOr the classic Konami game "Monster in My Pocket" from 1992!
- kmeisthax 4y agoIsn't this the reason why Game Freak and Nintendo went with the abbreviation internationally? But they got sued anyway?
- ssalka 4y agoI wonder if they will go after Disney/Pixar for Monsters, Inc
- krisoft 4y agoOr the Monster Manual. They and Hasbro can duke it out.
- acomjean 4y agoMonster Cables. I thought they were the ones always threatening others when they use the term "Monster"
- neilv 4y agoI don't understand how the beverage company could rightfully object to any game title like "Dark Deception: Monsters & Mortals". It sounds like countless other games, and I can't imagine it being mistaken for a beverage. Monsters are an idea going back in stories for millennia before the beverage brand existed. Board games, and then video games, were inspired by these stories of monsters, to make interactive experiences around the ideas. And the respective logos I just saw don't really look similar to my eye, other than both "horror-y/monster-y", but in different ways. If the truth of situation turns out to be as stupid as is alleged, and Internet pitchforks are required, be aware that the Monster "M" logo does look much like a pitchfork (but again, the generic pitchfork came first, and is a widely used idea)...
- asdff 4y agoIt's not that they object, its that they have a legal team. That team's job is to look for opportunities to take money that is being left on the table. Obviously this is absurd, I'm sure the lawyers filing the claims personally think its absurd too, but if there's a 1/1000th chance of a payout then its worth it because the lawyers for monster are on retainer anyway and their costs are already sunk. They are probably actively trolling for opportunities like this all the time, otherwise they'd be leaving money on the table.
- kube-system 4y agoThey’re not very good lawyers if going after an indie game is their idea of a money grab. They’re more likely just conservative IP lawyers concerned about dilution.
- asdff 4y agoThey probably go after this and a hundred other things at once which they can do with their size. I'm imagining a madlibs lawsuit template they have a paralegal or even a computer script fill in details when a vaguely relevant target is identified. As the Canadian philosopher W. Gretzky said, you miss 100% the shots you don't take.
- 4y ago
- Waterluvian 4y agoLike some design teams, some legal teams also have to justify their existence with make work. I’m just being a zealous advocate!
- umvi 4y agoDoesn't Bethesda do the same for the word "scrolls"? What's the most loaded game title using generic words that would tick off the most companies? "Monster Scrolls: Backcountry Metadata"
- toasteros 4y agoYep! Mojang were putting out a game simply titled Scrolls and Bethesda didn't like that, because apparently you can confuse 'Scrolls' for 'The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim'.
- failrate 4y agoIn this case, the product category is the same. While I agree that Elder Scrolls and Scrolls are distinct, it is at least possibly infringing.
- mr_toad 4y agoUSPTO are either incompetent or corrupt or both to allow trademarks on such generic terms. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re taking back handers.
- neilv 4y agoOnly loosely-related, but a little HN-ish... A long time ago, the "trademark enforcement team" of a certain FAANG sent me a legal threats letter, about a domain name I'd registered. The domain name had been intended for a satirical critique of early social media proto-influencer behavior, and couldn't be mistaken for a brand of the company. I'd lost interest in writing the site, but, after some back&forth with them, I didn't like that the company I'd always liked was trying to strongarm domain names away from people. I thought this might be culture runaway from the founders' intentions. So, I initiated a transfer of the domain name to the old university email address of their co-founder, and told them they'd have to ask him for it. And something about this being an opportunity for discussing don't-be-evil.
- traskjd 4y agoOne of the issues in TM law is that if you don't defend it, folks can claim you're not using it. Leads to perverse outcomes at times, especially in orgs big enough to have folks full time employed looking at such matters. [Edit: I'm not saying this is good. Yes, cooler heads should prevail. I'm explaining what can lead it to occurring when it seems nonsensical.]
- jonny_eh 4y agoThere is a limit though. Always consider "how would this look in front of a judge". There should be a cost paid for being overly litigious in this regard.
- unyttigfjelltol 4y agoIt's more like Xerox probably sort of liked that people viewed them as interchangeable with the act of photocopying, but eventually this had textbook consequences for their ability to prevent people from using their name for things they didn't like. I personally would have suggested offering you a license to use the web address, but for whatever reason that ilk of lawyers prefer antisocial methodologies.
- 4y ago
- pxc 4y agoIf you want to show the developer your support, you can pick up the game for just five bucks on Steam.
- nhatcher 4y agoGood thing mathematicians aren't making a y money: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_group
- rcarr 4y agoDungeons and Dragons are fucked \s
- xbar 4y agoAs is Mazes and Monsters.
- amelius 4y agoWere these stupid trademark laws even conceived through democratic means?
- yarg 4y agoWhoever at Monster initiated this shit needs to lose their job. Marketing should be jumping down legal's throat over this sort of thing.
- JumpCrisscross 4y agoWould it be cheeky to claim the Epic of Gilgamesh as prior art?
- 83457 4y agoI guess the lawyers have some quotas to hit.
- neontomo 4y agoFor context, this isn't the first time they've done this. From Wikipedia: > Examples of such lawsuits include the aquarium hobbyist site MonsterFishKeepers.com,[55] Bevreview.com, a beverage review site that published an unfavorable review of the Monster Energy drink[56] and Rock Art Brewery from Vermont that marketed a beer named "Vermonster".[57] That case was even brought up by Senator Patrick Leahy in a study of problematic trademark litigation tactics.[54] Monster Beverage dropped the lawsuit against the microbrewery due to the adverse publicity the lawsuit generated.[58]
- jarebear6expepj 4y agoHey I was looking for a reason to break my addiction to the green juice. Thanks!
- trashface 4y agoI don't know if it helps the legal case, but Diamond Multimedia used the word Monster for their 3dfx voodoo card, which I believe predates Monster Energy by several years. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-accelerator-card-reviews,42-7.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-accelerator-card-rev...
- smoyer 4y ago"You have walked into the fangs of a lurking Grue" ... The use of the word monster in computing is far older than its association with energy drinks!
- nemo44x 4y agoFun fact - Monster Energy is the best stock since its debut in the 1980’s. If you invested $1000 at IPO it is worth $663,500 today.
- cookingrobot 4y agoInteresting fact, Monster Energy is the best performing stock of the past 20y.
- WXLCKNO 4y agoThat's actually very interesting.
- aaron695 4y ago[dead]
- plaguepilled 4y agoSo annoying. Monsters-the-mythical-creatures existed in the public conscience long before Monsters-the-low-tier-beverage. There is no chance this is being done in good conscience, and I hope the courts punish this accordingly.
- floatinglotus 4y agoNot news. Monster Energy has been suing every single company using the word Monster in their title. This has been happening for years. For every company you hear about them suing, there are 10 that are secret and were forced to change their name. No joke.
- aendruk 4y agoSource: - https://twitter.com/VincentLivings/status/1641068531314995201 https://twitter.com/VincentLivings/status/164106853131499520... - https://twitter.com/VincentLivings/status/1641206007077691392 https://twitter.com/VincentLivings/status/164120600707769139... The submitted “TheGamer” article has an auto-playing video popup.
- benatkin 4y agoI wish I could go after Monster for using the word 'Energy'.
- anothernewdude 4y agoI guess man was the real Monster all along.
- JustSomeNobody 4y agoSee, this would be a good use of "influencers" on social media. Get them on board with putting out the word to boycott Monster Energy until they drop this.
- fortyseven 4y ago"Edge" all over again.
- bmitc 4y agoDoes a judge ever look at a suit like this and just nip it in the bud, immediately ruling against someone like Monster without hearing whatever they have to say? I mean, it's just absurd and a waste of a court's time to deal with this stuff.
- achow 4y agoRidiculous or not, even Microsoft lost similar battle. At that time (2014) I was aghast on how can this happen. Microsoft's SkyDrive cloud storage service is now called OneDrive after losing a legal battle with Sky. https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/onedrive-is-new-skydrive-name-after-microsoft-loses-sky-battle/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/onedrive-is-new...
- dsign 4y agoWall that's a d*ck move. There are other beverages out there that contain caffeine, and Monster's logo ("trademark") is not to my personal taste, not to mention the beverage itself. I guess I won't buy it anymore. They should pay more to their designers and researchers and less to their lawyers.
- justchill 4y agoI have stopped drinking this from today. I had no idea how aggressive and stupid they act. Now that I do I have no excuse.