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UK airport scraps 100ml liquid rule with new scanners
- pavlov 4y agoThe Helsinki airport eliminated the liquid rule last year. It also applies to electronics, they can stay in the bag. And of course shoes stay on (European airports never did this particular bit of post-9/11 security theatre). After experiencing how easy it can be, traveling from the US feels like a special hell with the multi-stage papers checks and endless lines and shoeless security dances.
- sonar_un 4y agoI have found that Airports equipped with the better Smiths hi-scan machine, laptops can stay in the bag. Screeners also seem to let a lot more through. I travel with a ton of cameras and equipment and when I see a modern Smiths machine, my bag makes it through much easier.
- rottingchris 4y agoMany European countries require taking your shoes off. At the very least, I have had to do it every single time at multiple UK and Polish airports in the last couple of years.
- throwawaymobule 4y agoI've gotten in the habit of doing it the last couple of years as a matter of course, since I wear steel-toed shoes so often. Doubt they'd set the metal detector off, but I'd rather not check. Would reccommend to anyone who moves servers around frequently.
- dizhn 4y agoFew months ago at Amsterdam's Airport security sakd I could keep the water. I was mad at myself for being so happy about it.
- null_object 4y agoSay goodbye to ever photographing anything abroad on film again.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- actionfromafar 4y agoIf you are flying with undeveloped film, ask that it not be sent through the scanner.
- mindracer 4y agoThese will nuke unexposed and undeveloped exposed film. Kodak put a warning out a year or 2 back
- matthews2 4y agoYou can keep a few rolls in a clear plastic bag and ask for them to be hand checked separately.
- trasz3 4y agoHopefully the rest of post-9/11 idiocy can be rolled back as well, at least outside the US.
- rwmj 4y agoA picture would have been worth a thousand words in this article.
- bitwize 4y agoI don't know what kind of new scanner technology they have, but I noticed at Louis Armstrong International (MSY) they've dispensed with making you take your shoes off or pull your laptop out to be scanned separately. I hope they keep finding ways around this security theater malarkey.
- doikor 4y agoThey most likely have the new fancy 360 degree xray machines. Basically the operator can look at the stuff inside your bag from any angle so having a laptop (hunk of metal blocking you from seeing what is behind it) won't block them from seeing the other stuff in the bag and thus no need to take them out anymore. Shoes we never had to remove shoes or if we had to it was for a very short period of time. At least that is what they did at Helsinki-Vantaa airport here in Finland. This is what is being used now https://www.rapiscansystems.com/en/products/920ct https://www.rapiscansystems.com/en/products/920ct
- realjhol 4y ago[flagged]
- LoganDark 4y ago> Shoes and liquids are so 2000s. It's 2023, so it's all about masks and vax mandates What's wrong with COVID vaccine mandates? It sort of stops people from dying. Sure you can be annoyed at masks (I don't wear one, for instance), but vaccines? You get poked a couple times and you're done. It's basically nothing and doesn't impact your life whatsoever. (Unless you have some sort of allergy or immune disorder of course.)
- arghnoname 4y agoMandating a medical treatment may be in some cases ethically acceptable, but it should only be done if absolutely necessary. In our current context, this is probably about the COVID vaccines. They don't seem to stop transmission, so mandating them on populations that aren't at risk is hard to justify. Personally I think if someone only increases risk on themselves, it's the same as refusing cancer treatment or anything else, that's their choice. If it imposes risk on others there is some threshold where mandates might make sense, but I don't think we met it with COVID, given the insufficient safety and efficacy data we had at the time of the mandates. It seems for at least some populations it is a pretty risky (relatively, not absolutely) vaccine.
- nielsbot 4y agoWonder if anyone knows or can speculate how these work? I stole a glance at the screen when my bag passed through one of these--looked like CT. The user can examine and freely rotate a transparent model of what's in the bag. I always wondered if you could use different energy X-rays to attempt to analyze what things being examined are made of.
- ainiriand 4y agoSo... Just because they are able to see more about what is in my bag I am able to carry more liquid? Can't I just show it to them and just bring it there now?
- Zurrrrr 4y agoSupposedly it can tell 'dangerous' liquids apart from things like drinks and shampoos.
- Qmppu842 4y agoI think Helsinki Airport has them. I had spray can of deodorant that i was able to take to Germany but on on way back it was deemed too dangerous. Thou the new scanners didn't like my 3 stacked card decks or the 2 of 250ml "milkshakes". Funny that the milkshakes needed to be drug tested while my 500mil smoothie was totally fine.
- zeeZ 4y agoSomeone I know talked about going through security with a carry-on filled to the brim with M:TG cards. Apparently raised many alarms.
- cromulent 4y agoYeah, they've had them for a year or so at Helsinki. Super fast and convenient. They have to re-educate everyone to not take your laptop out to keep things moving quickly. JFK has one of the new machines, but I haven't seen them use it yet.
- danielbln 4y agoOne of the few great benefits of going through Ben Gurion Airport in TelAviv is that due to their alternative approach to security (and profiling) noone gives a damn about your liquids. Want to go through the scanner holding a super gulp with a bag full of liquids? Go right ahead.
- seszett 4y agoFirst rule at Ben Gurion is "don't be Arab" though. So maybe their "alternative approach" works for you, but it does have some downsides.
- HopenHeyHi 4y agoIf you actually want to be informed on the subject I highly recommend: How to Design Impenetrable Airport Security by Wendover Productions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1kJpHBn50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1kJpHBn50, 14 minutes, well researched) Doesn't appear to have any downsides, appears to be logical, effective, and necessary. Appeals to emotion not withstanding. If you have any good faith suggestions for improvement after watching this I'd be all ears.
- tgv 4y agoOr be a tall, blonde Western European with a suspicious stamp in your passport. They'll question you at length and open your photo camera, film roll or not. The stamp was from Qatar or UAE, can't remember.
- BeFlatXIII 4y agoI wonder if the US military still provides multiple passports to members deployed in sensitive regions so they can use the passport that is least likely to cause trouble in each airport.
- zidad 4y agoOr even don't be associated with. As someone who used to visit the west bank for work I've spent many hours in intimidating interrogation, appropriated laptops, missed flights and most recently 3 days in a horrible prison without access to a shower or fresh clothing, after being denied access to the country for completely nonsense reasons. And the security argument is complete BS most of the time, NGO employees get the same kind of treatment. The Ben Gurion approach really only works well if the border personnel likes you, A.K.A you're of the right ethnicity, which is not a shining example of how it's done right IMO.
- locallost 4y agoI flew yesterday and in the plane realized I had some water from my daughter in the backpack. It was scanned and missed of course. And why wouldn't they miss it, it's a waste of time anyway. But at least they harassed a 3-year old to stand in a certain way to get scanned and fail at it. Unrelated, but I've come to believe it's a form of social welfare. So much policing for nothing, not just airports, wars on drugs etc. without it most of the people doing it would be unemployed. > Transportation Security Administration screeners allowed banned weapons and mock explosives through airport security checkpoints 95 percent of the time, according to the agency's own undercover testing. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/us-airport-screeners-missed-95-of-weapons-explosives-in-undercover-tests/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/us-airport-scree... edit: I was a bit harsh, I don't have any real issue with the people doing it an it's probably untrue that most would be unemployed. What I really meant was that I find it strange that social programs are often questioned, but spending hundreds of billions on something not really necessary and creating jobs for it isn't.
- rhuru 4y agoTSA and Public education is jobs program for otherwise unemployable.
- deegles 4y agoI had to throw away my nice Leatherman Micra (because of the tiny blade) at an airport because I forgot it was in my carry on, only to sit at a restaurant next to the gate and be given a full size serrated steak knife with my meal...
- actionfromafar 4y agoThere was a (Wired?) article about what kinds of weapons one could build from things available to buy after the gates.
- chr-s 4y agoI believe this is the original talk from treefort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo8xUsYo8IE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo8xUsYo8IE
- justusw 4y agoWhile flying itself is quite fun - nothing beats finding weird tchotchkes in the duty free shop - thinking about airport security gives me existential dread. I think it is great that British airports are relaxing their rules, but until that applies to the whole world, I will still arrive 2-3 hours before departure, knowing how unpredictable the situation at some airport security checkpoint can be. It is almost as if the whole point is to discourage us to fly. It is great if you live in a country with access to high speed trains. Surely beats walking around in your socks or people with no empathy going through your luggage.
- maest 4y ago> It is great if you live in a country with access to high speed trains. I've had my swiss knife taken off of me when going through security check for the London - Paris Eurostar. Very annoying, still not sure why it's forbidden.
- davidkuennen 4y agoI think it's rather to encourage us to fly. Many people are scared of flying and only do so, because they know it's the safest form to travel. If that would change, many people would refrain from flying.
- woopwoop24 4y agoin laos they make you security check for the high speed trains as well as needing passport photos of you upfront for your tickets. Same regulations as air travel with deodorant, knives and stuff like that, it is super ridiculous
- bagels 4y agoFirst time I've seen a hint at why liquids were banned besides vague references to explosives: British police said they had foiled a plot to blow up as many as 10 planes using explosives hidden in drinks.
- TrackerFF 4y agoHere's a 71 min documentary on the case, for those curious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJFiqy35KM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIJFiqy35KM
- adwww 4y agoI think it was quite a developed plot, and led to several high profile trials and convictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_pl...
- lesuorac 4y agoSure but that plot wasn't stopped by TSA / at the airport. The people also apparently were only convicted of bomb-making and nothing to with airplanes (allegedly being arrested to purchasing an airline ticket made the airline charges not stick). As well as here's what the register had to say after learning about through the trial how the attack would've worked. > Could the bombs have done that job, in fact? > The answer, unusually, is yes. The three convicted bombmakers - unlike other UK-based terrorists seen recently - had everything ready to assemble devices which would have had a good chance of getting through airport security as it then was. ... > Does the liquids limit prevent this kind of attack? > No, not really. > It's fairly easy to get round, in fact; a big team of terrorists with boarding passes for many different flights could bring many small amounts of liquid main-charge through security and combine them afterwards, still needing only one detonator, one firing device and one suicide bomber. https://www.theregister.com/2008/09/10/liquid_bomb_verdicts/?page=2 https://www.theregister.com/2008/09/10/liquid_bomb_verdicts/...
- bagels 4y agoAlso, the liquid was apparently high concentration hydrogen peroxide, which is highly reactive, and relatively easy to ignite with a catalyst.
- andai 4y agoI recently went through Eindhoven airport in the Netherlands and it blew my mind that I could bring water with me, and the security guy didn't even open my backpack, he just rotated and zoomed around a "hologram" of it in 3D on a computer.
- Scoundreller 4y agoQuestion is how this differentiates between the fluids inside. Shape means little.
- kieranl 4y agoMost x-ray machines use multi spectral detectors that detect 2 or more x-ray wavelengths. This is used for basic material characterization.
- yurishimo 4y agoI'll have to remember this. I moved here recently and wasn't sure so I packed similarly to how I would in the US.
- Scoundreller 4y agoUK could save a ton of time if they just better implemented One Stop Security. Heathrow wastes a massive amount of time by rescreening cabin luggage that was already screened in Europe/US/Canada. And this isn’t a Brexit thing. I’ve avoided transiting through Heathrow because of this silliness. Especially as they won’t let you bring big contact lens in your carryon while US/Canada does. Not cool to have it seized mid-journey despite staying airside.
- PutinPoopin 4y agoWhen you transit you’re in a flight with people who didn’t transit. They don’t know where your luggage has been or hasn’t been or if it’s yours or new. What they are doing is normal and many airports in asia do exactly that.
- kalleboo 4y agoIn Japan for domestic flights, they have some sort of a sniffer machine they put your liquids on for testing, so flying with them is fine. When I flew through Beijing and had forgotten a can of beer in my backpack (<3 Julebryg), it was flagged on the X-ray, and when they guy found it, saw "it was just a can of beer", he gave it back to me. I guess that works too.
- acomjean 4y agoI was in Denver about 10 years ago and went through the human size "sniffing" machine. It was weird. I was the only one in line and they sent me through. You can keep shoes and belts on. Ushered into a telephone booth sized device. It had doors on both sides and puffed me with air. 10 or 20 seconds later the green light came the door opened and I walked out. (I guess they're called "puffer machines") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffer_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffer_machine
- johnwalkr 4y agoI was going to write a similar comment. Flying domestic in Japan also requires no ID, little security, generally you are asked to go through security 15 minutes before boarding (the plane won't even be there if yo are early), fares are regular/published and don't skyrocket when a flight gets close to full (on the big carriers), and flights are easily changeable.
- lynguist 4y agoI flew with liquor on a domestic Japanese flight. They didn’t even have a scanner. I showed them that I have it in my backpack and they said it’s no problem at all.
- rwmj 4y agoYeah, the domestic Japanese flight I took [in 2017] was entirely devoid of security, at least overtly. We just bought a ticket and walked to the plane, like in the good old days. Half of the people on board seemed to be carrying cats or dogs in baskets too. And the ticket was absurdly cheap. Pretty strange / cool!
- mejutoco 4y agoIn Tel Aviv they had very strict airport security measures: opening the suitcase and passing chemical papers several times, asking lots of questions, etc. The 1 liter bottle of water, you can pass that no problem. Maybe they already have these scanners?
- andreiii 4y agoIn Israel you could go with full bottles of liquids for years. BTW, the opening of the suitcase is just in case of higher security concern (after the screening). If you check your passport you got a 5 on that sticker. Israeli citizens, people with friends or family there, couples at first visit don't get their bags open.
- yuvadam 4y agoIsrael never cared for the 100ml security theater. Hardly a country that doesn't care about security, so that should tell you everything you need to know about "liquid bombs".
- Arch-TK 4y agoRecently at Stansted I had an encounter with a security staff member who was of the opinion that both clotted cream and butter were liquids. (Note, I wasn't the one trying to get either of these onto the plane.) Her entire argument seemed to rest on the case that they were spreadable. I don't think she did well in GCSE physics.
- anotherhue 4y agoEdinburgh airport were concerned about the squishy-but-still kind-of-solid lumps I was carrying through, but were ultimately charmed to discover it was haggis.
- carlmr 4y agoReminds me of getting my peanut butter taken away, because butter is dairy. For all the fuss about whether oat milk should be called milk, there are people of room temperature IQ level intelligence that get confused by peanut butter.
- Auracle 4y agoSo, this is the TSA but: “TSA classifies items that you can spill, spread, spray, pump or pour as needing to be 3.4 ounces or smaller to fit into a 3-1-1 bag,” TSA spokesperson Lisa Farbstein said. “There has been no change in the categorization of any of these items, including peanut butter, which is a spreadable and thus falls under the 3.4-ounce limit.” Apparently “spreadable” is one of the criteria. I’d argue anything is spreadable if you try hard enough.
- Arch-TK 4y ago>I’d argue anything is spreadable if you try hard enough. That's exactly what I said.
- kyriakos 4y agoI had a similar argument once at my local airport. The security argument was that if the container states millilitres then it's a liquid and they don't care even if it's only 10% full.
- ShinzonRemus 4y agoRome Fiumicino Airport has these scanners since 1y or so. Very handy, the queue is almost non existent.
- pelagicAustral 4y agoVouch. I was there two months ago and it was the fastest immigration of any airport I've been through... and I was coming from country from northern Africa.
- camillomiller 4y agoIn Berlin at BER I had someone from security straight up tell me that water being sold at a premium after security, with a profit for the airport shops that pay hefty rents, is the only reason for keeping up the 100ml liquids rule. That was a heated discussion point for a while, since the airport had to stop people from drinking tap water inside because of an e.coli infestation in the water system of the airport. We're talking about the worst joke of an airport in the world, after all.
- superhuzza 4y ago"In Berlin at BER I had someone from security straight up tell me that water being sold at a premium after security, with a profit for the airport shops that pay hefty rents, is the only reason for keeping up the 100ml liquids rule." This logic kind of falls apart when you think about it for a minute and: 1. Most airports have water fountains 2. Food and snacks are allowed through security. If it's all a conspiracy to make a few $$$, why aren't snacks banned under similar pretences 3. Many airports are now scrapping the rules with new machines 4. It would imply some sort of agreement between the stores and the security operations at thousands of airport worldwide - all individual agreements or a mass agreement, quite the scheme!
- mr_mitm 4y ago> 1. Most airports have water fountains Not in Germany
- jezzarax 4y agoMunich airport T2 has water fountains for at least the last 2 years
- camillomiller 4y agoYeah, I mean, the thing is borderline conspiracy theory. Yet, like with many conspiracy theories, I believe there's a fundament of truth in the backward process. Meaning that the liquids policy doesn't derive from an actual conspiracy, but that interest groups within the airport would now still be kinda lobbing to have this element as a point of discussion as a weight on a future investment decision (in new machines).
- prima-facie 4y agoHad a horrible experience at LTN once with one particular security staff. From the very beginning the lady doing the luggage inspection was being rude and patronising to me and to others. When inspecting my luggage she pulled out every single item from my backpack with a glowing look of satisfaction on her face. She checked every single pouch for God knows what. I have never witnessed anything like it before. When she got to the liquid bag I politely challenged her on the liquid policy which she could not properly explain in her broken English. She then took things personally and became agitated, verbally aggressive and retorted to phrases like: Is this your first time flying? What is your problem?? Her boss was called and he took 5 minutes of his time to explain things calmly and politely. Apparently gels like vapour rub or hair wax are considered liquids. We joked about butter also being a liquid since it's _spreadable_. All was good and I decided to head back to the front desk to have my luggage checked-in instead (liquids were over the allowance indeed). But the lady I mentioned was high on her power trip and completely ignored my requests to hand back my ID, credit cards, phone, and backpack which were on a tray in her possession (behind the plexiglass screen). I asked twice and she just smirked and ignored it. Her boss also asked a couple of times until the penny finally dropped. I've been at this airport many times before and have never experienced anything like this before. It's a horrendous abuse of power and overreach. Security inspection staff should not withhold or deposes people of their legal documents or belongings. It's degrading and abusive.
- vegancap 4y agoOh man, this is excellent news. Wrestling with my 16-inch laptop out of my overpacked rucksack, then trying to cram it back in again when you're cutting it fine already is a pain
- beyondcompute 4y agoIs London City a busy airport?
- rwmj 4y agoNot really. Apparently it is the 5th busiest airport in the London area with 4.5 million passengers (2017) according to Wikipedia. Compared to 61 million for Heathrow. It's a peculiar airport in general because it's right in the middle of the old docklands on a bit of reclaimed land and only relatively small jets can land there. Unlike the other London airports which are all miles outside central London and serve all sizes of planes. Fun fact - it's the only major airport in the world that doesn't have a control tower on site (to save space). It is remote controlled from 80 miles away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_City_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_City_Airport
- throwawaymobule 4y agoIt's also a pretty good setup for flying a plane with a light load of fuel over to Shannon where the passangers can do US immigration checks while the same plane gets fully fueled. I think BA used to do this.
- xvilka 4y agoIt's all useless security theater anyway, people travelled even without these stupid rules, and it still doesn't stop bad players - they just invent new ways.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cromulent 4y agoThere's a photo of the new 3d scanners here (they remind me of a jet engine). https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2022/new-technology-makes-it-even-more-convenient-start-your-journey-renewed-helsinki https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2022/new-technology-makes...
- atwebb 4y agoJust flew out of Memphis and these (or something very similar) were amazing, it felt archaic flying back and doing it the other way. Security time was a few seconds. Now if I can skip the shoes part...
- jccooper 4y agoPre Check skips shoes and most of the other nonsense.
- kurtoid 4y agoif you can get a peek at the computer monitors, do so. It has a volumetric/point cloud of scanned objects that they can pan, rotate, slice, and filter.