29 ms·

HP bricking printers remotely if the client's credit card expires [video]

378 points by bobse 4y ago

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Always have a spray can of UBIK with you! Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik Edit: And one of Perri Air too. Just to be sure.
orionblastar 4y ago
This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. They can also shut you off if they want to. This is like digital files instead of DVDs, CDs, Cassette tapes, etc. With DRM they can shut off your access to the files. With the physical media you have unlimited access to the medium.
- nirvgorilla 4y ago
  Once you go FLAC you never go back.™
  - lynx23 4y ago
    Yes! Its like there are just two options. Messing around with physical media, or moving to the cloud. As if MPD and NAS didn't exist :-)
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >This is like digital files instead of ... With the physical media you have unlimited access to the medium. You don't need physical media: it takes up a lot of space. Digital files are usually better. Digital files with DRM, however, are crap. Don't use it, and don't buy it. >This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. They can also shut you off if they want to. Even worse, since this is crappy inkjet technology, unless things have improved since I last looked at inkjets (I doubt it), the print heads dry up over time if they're not used, requiring replacement of the print cartridges even though there's still ink. This doesn't happen with laser printers; you can leave them for a year, and then print out a page and it works fine. I keep trying to tell non-technical people I know not to buy into this scam of an industry (inkjet printing), but no one listens to me.
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    Digital files are usually better, but only in the moment. Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. Tell me again how much of a drag it is to have a set of shelves with movies on them?
    - mindslight 4y ago
      It's a drag when you pull out a movie you haven't watched in a while, and the disc is delaminating. Or you're watching something that glitches in a particular spot and you just end up fast forwarding to the next scene to keep watching, forever skipping that part of the movie. And then you remember you paid money for that trash. Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. And even if there were some compelling reason to leave the format behind, you can always transcode or just redownload.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        >Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. Basically, this will never happen (barring some kind of planetary catastrophe). The software for these codecs is ubiquitous and easily downloadable. You can still download software for very, very old codecs that didn't get as much use as x264; this stuff is all built into ffmpeg AFAIK. This is one of the huge benefits of open formats (or at least formats with free software decoders; remember MP3 was patent-encumbered for a long time but there was still a FOSS codec). Some weird proprietary format/codec doesn't have this benefit, such as DIVX (the DVD competitor, not to be confused with the FOSS codec).
    - lmm 4y ago
      > Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. You still get that with physical objects. How are your shelves of VHS tapes and LaserDiscs doing?
- helsinkiandrew 4y ago
  > This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. This is how a lot of businesses do their printing/photocopying. And it can make sense if you're printing a lot per month. They don't have to worry about repairs/servicing or upgrading and can pay monthly/quarterly from expenses rather than capital outlay. Doing it for home use/small printers/small usage seems madness though.
voxelghost 4y ago
Bought an [another brand] Ink-Tank printer a few years back - and I am never going back to HP printers, or ink-cartridges whatever the brand. Edit; brand not important
- somat 4y ago
  I agree, brand is not important. However it would be nice to have a data point as to who is making these printers.
  - voxelghost 4y ago
    Alright, my understanding is that the big ones are Canon, Epson, Brother, and Hp. Depending on brand and model they call them inktank/eco-tank/mega-tank/inkvestment ... and so on. Mine is a Canon, but from what I've seen/heard Epson, and Brother have happy users as well. Honestly haven't heard from anyone using a Hp inktank so I can't say anything about it.
    - deely3 4y ago
      I regret to inform you that I bought Canon Pixma with refill tank and I happy with it. I print colorful A4 every day, sometime bw pages, for two years and so far I spent like $8-12 on ink refills.
      - voxelghost 4y ago
        There seems to be some disconnect between >I regret to inform you ... and >...and I happy with it. >I spent like $8-12 on ink refills. Yeah I am still working on the bottles that came in the box, family of 4 with college students that print out a lot of work. For me it is not even the cost of the ink that bothers me the most with the ink-cartridge-printers, it is the constant complaining about Cyan cartridge being low, and then refusing to print even black and white documents, then you replace one and the next day it starts complaining about Magenta or Yellow. With the ink-tank there is a window into the tank - and you can see how much ink is left in each tank by this fantastic AR (Actual Realty) feature.
blamazon 4y ago
Whenever I click into Louis Rossman rant videos I am always so distracted by how much I want that chair. It looks so comfy. Re: printers, I recently replaced the toner cartridge that came with the Brother B&W multifunction laser printer I bought 12 years ago. Could not be happier with that thing. I sprung for the extended capacity cartridge at Micro Center for the replacement so there's a decent actuarial chance it will outlive me.
- jojohohanon 4y ago
  I have the brother stupid basic black and white laser printer with duplexing and WiFi. That thing is unstopable. Incredibly cheap to purchase and use. 100 would buy again.
  - alex7734 4y ago
    Could I ask what model is it? I've read the newer models aren't as good but don't really know for sure
    - mschild 4y ago
      I have had the Brother MFC-L2710DN for close to 4 years now. I have had not a single problem with it. Super easy to use and maintain. 90% of the time it's completely turned off. Once left it unplugged for 5 months. Turned it back on and worked without a hitch.
    - albert_e 4y ago
      I use Brother DCP L-2540 DW bought for $100 eight years ago -- I took it with me when I moved countries -- still going strong. toner refills available from third parties on Amazon for very cheap. features wifi + ethernet laser monochrome printer with 2-sided duplex printing flatbed scanner & automatic document feeder for scanner no duplex for scanning (you will have to manually flip over the source pages if you want to scan the back side too)
      - CubsFan1060 4y ago
bruhreally 4y ago
[dead]
meitham 4y ago
If you truly want to own the devices you buy, once they’re home add firewall rules to block their connectivity to their manufacturers, ad servers. Your smart tv or printer can continue to happily work without access to HP cloud servers.
- imposterr 4y ago
  This is until 5G becomes so ubiquitous that manufactures start including connectivity chips in all their devices so they don't have to rely on you connecting to the internet <:{o
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    That's where the tinfoil-lined house with firewalled Wi-Fi comes into its own.
  - iso1631 4y ago
    Why couldn't they do that with 4G
    - vinyl7 4y ago
      The network couldn't handle that many devices
  - criddell 4y ago
    If the printer has Wi-Fi, then all that really needs to happen is a business agreement with Amazon Sidewalk or Xfinity WiFi and a software update. If that happens, then lots of those offline printers could be online overnight.
  - timbit42 4y ago
    Nothing a bit of tinfoil around the 5G module couldn't fix.
    - digitalsushi 4y ago
      at least until they learn how to program a 'timer'
toast0 4y ago
What do you expect to happen when you sign up for the subscription ink? If you don't pay for your subscription, the ink stops working. AFAIK, the printers compatible with subscription ink also work fine with regular ink. I will say, the UX is pretty poor when the subscription ends because the card can't be charged and the user doesn't read their email to know, and it's one of the printers that only has a non very obvious symbol to indicate the problem, and that symbol isn't shown in the manual, and someone (me) is helping them over the phone and only barely knew about the setup. And inkjets are such a PITA for low volume printing. I wish dotmatrix printers would come back. The output quality is poor, they're loud, the paper is iffy, but ink ribbons last a pretty good amount of time for low volumes, and there's near zero warm up time; and you can print banners!
- mikewarot 4y ago
  >What do you expect to happen when you sign up for the subscription ink? I would expect sufficient ink for the number of pages I signed up for to appear periodically until I have a large surplus, at which point I can either reduce my subscription, or cancel it. I wouldn't expect that ink to retroactively be bricked. Laser printers are far, far better in terms of consumables, as long as you avoid the very lowest cost units, and DRM hobbled units.
  - toast0 4y ago
    Well, the sales page says you can rollover pages, but only until you have 3x your monthly alotment. The ink is only valid during your subscription period, like most other service subscriptions. When you cancel your phone, you don't to use the excess minutes. When you cancel your insurance, you don't get to make a claim for an event after the expiration date. It's 10 pages a month (or whatever plan you sign up for), so you didn't print and the month is done, so is your ink. You can put in a regular cartridge if you want regular rules, but $1/month to maybe print and they'll send more ink when it dries up seems like an ok deal to me? (Was better when it was free, but they got bills, I guess) Frankly, I don't expect ink cartridges to work after a month or two if I haven't printed anything, either. I'm happy with the color laser I got from CDW Outlet, but while discounted, it was still probably the cost of 4 inkjets and I don't know if I'll really use it enough to justify. But other than some duplexing oddities sometimes, it just works and that's really nice.
squokko 4y ago
Who exactly buys an inkjet printer these days? Photo nerds? Who needs anything other than a $99 black-and-white laser?
- martin-adams 4y ago
  Parents who need to print out worksheets for their kids homework
  - ecf 4y ago
    Cool. Color laser jets exist.
    - deely3 4y ago
      And inkjet printers with possibility to refill ink banks exists too, so what?
      - ecf 4y ago
        You’re the one who made a point about homework assignments not being printable on an ink jet printer, so you tell me. Edit: Apologies, you weren’t OP.
        zuhsetaqi 4y ago
        > You’re the one who made a point about homework assignments not being printable on an ink jet printer, so you tell me. No one made that point. First OP asked: > Who needs anything other than a $99 black-and-white laser? And the answer was basically parents for the kids.
      - timbit42 4y ago
        They still cost more than color laser printers when you factor in the cost of ink. If you need photo quality, take a memory stick of your photos to Walmart. They can do it better and cheaper.
- deleted 4y ago
6510 4y ago
I have an older model, when the new ink arrived the significant other tossed out the old cartridge. How was she suppose to know it wont work if you have no old previously accepted cartridge? The lamest part is that it does print a test page AND prints the windos test page too. It bricks it self with a cartridge error the moment it receives a normal print job.
theGeatZhopa 4y ago
I want that chair. I don't need printer.
josephcsible 4y ago
If the government actually cared about the environment, forcing the creation of unnecessary waste like this would be illegal.
- k8sToGo 4y ago
  When they send you new ink, they send you an envelope where you can return the old cartridges for free. So there is recycling happening.
  - znep 4y ago
    Or they at least want you to think that.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      This is an area where recycling probably happens. The ink costs far less than the cartridge, And it's not too hard to make a refillable cartridge. It's unlikely HP would bother with the envelopes if it wasn't cheaper for them then building new cartridges.
      - nerdbert 4y ago
        If $(perceived PR value of pretending to recycle) - $(envelopes) < $(marginal cost of making cartridges actually recyclable) then you can bet they are going straight in the dumpster.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        This ignores that there are options besides the envelopes. If they were just going to throw them away, they'd do something like team up with Best Buy to have an cartridge recycling bin available. Most of the PR value at a fraction of the cost. Actually sending prepaid envelopes means they're probably recycling them.
  - flipbrad 4y ago
WalterBright 4y ago
Good thing I have an HP Laser that predates all that nonsense.
SentientAtom 4y ago
Imagine voluntarily enrolling in a "click charge" program for residential printing...
KronisLV 4y ago
What an absurd time to be alive: "Here's a device that you have supposedly bought, in full working order, with the supplies needed for it to work present... and yet, you cannot use it, unless you remain subscribed to the corporation that makes it." What's next? Scanners only working under a subscription? Your Wi-Fi router or switches only working when a license is active (even your LAN)? Your chargers, PSUs or UPSes only being allowed to work for 6 months, before you're forced to buy a newer model? Needing a monthly subscription to use your OS or browser? I don't even know anymore... The printer example feels like it shouldn't be legal. The whole printer ink situation feels a lot like that. The companies are probably going to get away with this, because they're the ones setting the rules, you're free to not use their services and instead turn to the non-existent companies that will put the users over maximizing profits. Edit: Louis suggests Brother as a brand that doesn't do this. However, what guarantees are there that they won't?
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  > Your Wi-Fi router or switches only working when a license is active (even your LAN)? This is what OpenWRT is for. We need FOSS scanner and printer stack.
  - techdragon 4y ago
    Which is ironic given one of the original motivations behind Richard Stallman getting involved in open source and part of the foundational history of the whole GNU FOSS organisations and ecosystem… is that he got frustrated with a printer and wanted to write his own software to run it (basically wanting to write his own firmware) for it. Given we have open source 3D printers… why are there no good open source regular printers? Does no one really care that much? Is it too much of a niche desire given the ubiquitous nature of shitty printers round the world being sold for less than they cost in a parasitical effort to trap owners into a sunk cost fallacy of paying for overpriced ink?
    - unwind 4y ago
      The argument I've been hearing when this comes up is that the mechanical side of ordinary 2d printers is too high-precision for hobbyist work. This sounds plausible, the actual nozzle holes in an inkjet printer are around .003 inches (76 µm for the rest of us) according to Wikipedia [1]. That sounds like some pretty high-order manufacturing is needed, I'm not drilling that out in the shed. Perhaps the best bet would be to find a commercially available printer (laser or inkjet) and reverse engineer it, perhaps replacing the control board with a Raspberry Pi or something more suitable (ESP32?) to drive the existing electro-mechanical components with an open firmare. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printing#Continuous_inkjet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printing#Continuous_ink...
gl-prod 4y ago
I don't know why tolerate printer companies. They are the devil.
unixhero 4y ago
Which printers are part of this?
- timbit42 4y ago
  HP inkjet printers with the Instant Ink program.
asdff 4y ago
Spotify does something somewhat similar as I've found recently. My card expired that was hooked into spotify. When I logged back in it let me know, but then I lost all of my saved content. Hundreds of albums that, as far as I can tell, I must now go through in my library and click individually to redownload. Downloads only happen when the spotify app is active and the display is not asleep. The chore seems so annoying that frankly I'm seriously considering being a pirate to never have to deal with this sort of thing again.
- distances 4y ago
  Is the reason to download hundreds of albums to have them available while traveling? I'm curious as I have only used Spotify as a streaming service.
  - asdff 4y ago
    Yes, for airplanes, but also sometimes I don't have a great data connection for streaming while driving in a car or riding transit, or I'm approaching my data limit and would rather not burn LTE. I'd like to think battery life is improved too.
- pancrufty 4y ago
  > Spotify does something somewhat similar > then I lost all of my saved content I mean, hardly the same here. Offline content is only available to subscribed users, so it makes sense that it's physically deleted from your computer, but you don't lose it: all your "favorites" are still attached to your account. I do agree that it's a pain if you rely on offline music, but not re-downloading previously-downloaded content is more of a programming issue than a policy one, unless they specifically do it to save on egress fees. With their generous freemium program, I don't really fault Spotify here and it's unfair to compare it to HP.
  - SamuelAdams 4y ago
    Maybe the solution is to give the user 3 days to update their credit card info, after that point process local deleting.
frankreyes 4y ago
Stallman was right all along.
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  The modern day Cassandra
- unity1001 4y ago
  He was right all along. And many of us always knew that. But some of us at least expected the industry to not be THIS sociopathic. This randian. There would at least be some semblance of sanity, we assumed. It appears not. Apparently the desire of 'the market' to extract maximum profit at ANY cost right here and right NOW tramples everything else. Consumer trust and the next decade's profits that hang on that trust be damned. Better to extract everything NOW, rather than build something long-lasting. This can only be solved by regulation now. We are back to where we were at the turn of the century before consumer protection laws and regulations existed.
prmoustache 4y ago
On another subject, why do so many youtube people have to record themselves with a giant ugly microphone, whose sound quality is usually just average by the way, hanging from a huge arm in front of them, instead of using a simpler lavalier setup?
- bborud 4y ago
  ...which then inspires people who aren't youtubers to buy voice microphones which they aren't going to learn how to use so you either don't hear them, or they sound like their lips are almost resting on your ear.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  Comfort, convenience, speed and ease of both initial and general set-up.
- rationalist 4y ago
  I'm guessing because they think it looks professional and they think viewers will view them as an authoritative figure.
- LoganDark 4y ago
  Because a lavalier setup is something you have to wear, but a giant ugly microphone on an arm is something you can just sit near. It matters for mental effort when you just want to sit in your comfy chair and have a talk; all you have to do is hit record or stream on your computer, not mess with hooking up a microphone and a hardware recorder and such. It's not (always) because these microphones have superior sound quality or anything. It's because of the convenience. -Emily
- astura 4y ago
  YouTube is a visual media. I assume it's a look they are going for - they think it looks professional/serious.
- humanizersequel 4y ago
  Is a lav setup simpler? You can't just plop down in front of your desk and hit record that way. Sound quality is also a consideration, although that probably doesn't matter as much for this kind of video.
rawoke083600 4y ago
Yooo ! Nice one HP-Product-Managers. Never buying HP printers again. Crap like this sticks in the memory !
rawoke083600 4y ago
As bad is this is (and it's really bad) I do feel(hope) there will eventually arise a market and providers of "free-and-fair" devices. Example: -The Framework Laptop (Came at the height of the right-to-repair crap) -Linux (Remember them unix wars and specialised-expensive hardware) It will just be another "segment" to compete in, ie being more free-and-open than your competitors ? EDIT: Formatting
- Talinx 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1617566347877298177 https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/161756634787729817... Currently have a ten year old HP printer, constantly causes problems. If Framework actually makes a printer I'll buy it instantly.
  - rawoke083600 4y ago
    Damnn can you imagine that ? a Solid made-to-refill and use printer ! I'd buy something like that yesterday already !
- LoganDark 4y ago
  There's currently a glaring lack of high-performance repairable devices. Sure, the Framework laptop is a fun experiment, but it's tiny and has no GPU, so it's useless for our line of work/hobbies. I'd imagine many others feel the same. I wish people would throw out "thin and light" and make something practical. Nobody does it right. There are heavy laptops out there but they always sacrifice things like the display for that purpose. Maybe one day we'll try to build our own laptop, but that requires such an astronomical level of expertise and commitment and money that we probably won't ever get to. -Emily
  - rawoke083600 4y ago
    >Sure, the Framework laptop is a fun experiment, Yes/No :) YMMV, but I do rate the framework a tad higher than just an experiment. This is technically the 'first-of-a-new-kind' of a product and or laptop. Give it a few more generation. The FW-Laptop might not have been the best example but my point is as much as these "evil-companies" do "evil-things" (like H.P now) there will arise a natural counter-market force an products (opportunities) to be "less-evil"
FpUser 4y ago
There is a sucker born every minute ... Why on earth people fell for this subscription racket in general is beyond me. I understand "subscribing" for things like Netflix. But "subscribing" for things like heated seats in your car I think is pure insanity.
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  In theory it makes sense for people who live in warm climates who might occasionally drive to colder climes. And that is what BMW had in mind apparently. BMWs sold in Scandinavia will not have the option to subscribe apparently.
pookah 4y ago
Nobody is forcing people to buy this garbage and there's plenty of alternatives. My car and no car I will ever buy will have a subscription model. No printer will either.
- danuker 4y ago
  One alternative: an Arduino-controlled DIY plotter. Coincidentally, you could harvest a typical printer for many parts it needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo
  - moffkalast 4y ago
    Boss: I need you to print out 50 pages of text. Me, with a plotter instead of a printer: UHHHHHHHH
    - danuker 4y ago
      Eh. It will be slow but it can work unattended.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  The problem is you'll eventually find yourself without a car or printer to buy, with this becoming the most effective cash cow for all manufacturers.
- college_physics 4y ago
  > Nobody is forcing people to buy this garbage I never wanted a mobile with non-replaceable battery but suddenly the "market" decided that this the only option on offer I never wanted a social network or search engine that spies on me and creates my behavioral profile for sale, but suddenly the "market" decided that this the only viable business model for those services I never wanted a digital only payments system but soon the basic anonymity of using cash will be "suspicious" activity > My car and no car I will ever buy will have a subscription model You don't want a "subscription car" but I can assure you pretty soon both you and your car data will be traded amongst insurance companies, "brands" and who knows who else Joe Consumer doesn't have the time, education or energy to do anything about all this. This is down to regulatory capture of the institutions that should protect us from out-of-control corporate or state interests. This is the stark reality especially in the US. There are slowly diverging attitudes e.g., in Europe, where 500 million people and 27 countries don't agree on much but managed to agree on a few consumer / data protections. Lets hope we can reverse this dystopia before it becomes inescapable.
danuker 4y ago
Time to replace my printer. Perhaps I can harvest some of its parts and put them to better use. We have extremely cheap pens. If only we could use them to get output from a computer... DIY Pen Plotter with Automatic Tool Changer | Arduino based CNC Drawing Machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo
toyg 4y ago
Digital feudalism will continue to rise, unless it's challenged at an ideological and political level.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
My employer's Help Desk's experience with current HP printers is why branch offices will soon be using a different brand. I don't know what kind of sadist looks at printers and says "I want to make those even worse", but apparently HP hired them.
ericlewis 4y ago
Exactly this happened to us recently and we ended up switching to a different brand printer a couple weeks ago. What is really strange is they must have done this like a ban hammer and why now? Our printer had been on an expired card for for literal years (ran out of black ink ages ago, but could use all the colors the same). Edit: also kind of funny to see the printer we changed over to mentioned in this thread as a common replacement.
hk1337 4y ago
They still got an HP but I finally got my parents into buying a laser printer instead of fooling around with inkjet and its cartridges. It was still quite a bit, and more than $100, because they insisted on color and multifunction printer but after a week and still so far AFAIK they’re loving the laser printer. I extolled how about my black and white laser printer like 5-7 years ago and I am still on the toner that came with the printer.
ppetty 4y ago
More fodder for the “dumb” devices market. Hold onto your offline car & toaster. Seriously, this is both astonishing and revolting for most people, but maybe we all need to learn how to keep our dumb stuff working instead of throwing it away.
chrisweekly 4y ago
My Brother laser printer is one of my all-time highest ROI purchases. Ironic that it's not just TCO, it cost hardly more upfront than the HP / Epson junk it's permanently replaced. After decades of constant annoyance w/ unreliable low-quality printer ink scammy nonsense, I have a fast, quiet, reliable, low-(zero?)-maintenance machine.
tfandango 4y ago
I use this service for now because my wife is a teacher and she has to print a lot of stuff, at home, in color (yea I know the schools should be paying for that but that's not how teaching in the US works apparently). The printer itself is like 100 dollars and I have to say the convenience of not having to drive to Walmart at 10pm Sunday because she surprise-printed 150 pages of stuff is kind of nice. That said the printer only prints well for about 2 years before color images just start to streak no matter how new your print cartridge is or how many times you clean/align. I'd love to invest in a color laser but last time I went through this it was close to 600 bucks to just get started. I wonder if it's time to check that option out again...
- wolrah 4y ago
  > I'd love to invest in a color laser but last time I went through this it was close to 600 bucks to just get started. A color laser is effectively four laser printers in one box, so it is inherently going to be multiple times the cost of a single one. That said, unless your wife is printing mostly actual photos that she cares about having in top quality, the color laser is the right answer if she actually needs color. Inkjet printers are for photos and nothing else. They range between not good and bad at documents, always have, and always will. Anything greyscale made of mostly solid colors is laser's territory.
- Merad 4y ago
  Brother has color laser printers starting at around $250, but they get you on the toner cartridges... $75 each and it takes four of them. It probably works out to be cheaper than an inkjet though since you don't have to worry about toner drying out when you've only used half the cartridge.
- deelly 4y ago
  Serious question: why not try inkjet with refillable tanks? I use Canon Pixma for 2 years, I print A4 full color page every day, one time I printed color book and BW book with a lot of images. I spent like $ 8-12 on non-original ink and I didn't even finish these 4 200ml bottles yet.
  - 4y ago
swamp40 4y ago
Our HP OfficeJet Pro 8210 (2020) stopped printing in January because we had generic ink cartridges installed. It updated itself even though I had firmware updates turned off. Real HP cartridges are about $80 - the cost of a new printer. So you can guess what our next step will be and which brand we won't be buying.
- default_png 4y ago
  Part of me would be returning that to the shop...
  - japanman425 4y ago
    Which part?
stevespang 4y ago
[dead]
stonemetal12 4y ago
Over the holidays my parents asked me for help with their printer. Turns out their printer had disconnected from wifi so it couldn't reach the subscription verification web service. Their desktop app could connect to their webservice and the printer but evidently that isn't good enough. It actually made me stop and think about starting a printer company, until I remembered Brother exists and isn't garbage yet. But even they have started a print rental service. :(
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Every hbackdoor will be hacked and the printers will be bricked by some third party, trying to extort the same value from hp. Customers will demand refunds for printers that print obscenitys and self-destroy.
xorry 4y ago
can someone recommend an office printer for infrequent use that runs on linux and doesn't require proprietary drivers?
whoomp12342 4y ago
never buying an HP computer again.
labrador 4y ago
I don't know why anyone buys HP printers and at this point I'm afraid to ask
onewheeltom 4y ago
I own 2 printers. A Brother laser printer (about $110) and a $59 HP Envy printer running Instant Ink. I gave away a working HP Office Jet and am totally satisfied. I totally understand the bargain. I’m paying for prints, not ink. I’ve had way fewer problems with this HP than any inkjet I have owned. Swapping ink carts costs me nothing. Support has been surprisingly good. I’m happy to pay HP $5.99 a month for 50 prints. If something goes wrong, the onus is on HP to get it working or they don’t get paid. Note that I have 2 printers so even if problems with the HP, I still have the Brother.

378 points by bobse 4y ago

Always have a spray can of UBIK with you! Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik Edit: And one of Perri Air too. Just to be sure.

orionblastar 4y ago

This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. They can also shut you off if they want to. This is like digital files instead of DVDs, CDs, Cassette tapes, etc. With DRM they can shut off your access to the files. With the physical media you have unlimited access to the medium.

nirvgorilla 4y ago
Once you go FLAC you never go back.™
- lynx23 4y ago
  Yes! Its like there are just two options. Messing around with physical media, or moving to the cloud. As if MPD and NAS didn't exist :-)
midoridensha 4y ago
>This is like digital files instead of ... With the physical media you have unlimited access to the medium. You don't need physical media: it takes up a lot of space. Digital files are usually better. Digital files with DRM, however, are crap. Don't use it, and don't buy it. >This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. They can also shut you off if they want to. Even worse, since this is crappy inkjet technology, unless things have improved since I last looked at inkjets (I doubt it), the print heads dry up over time if they're not used, requiring replacement of the print cartridges even though there's still ink. This doesn't happen with laser printers; you can leave them for a year, and then print out a page and it works fine. I keep trying to tell non-technical people I know not to buy into this scam of an industry (inkjet printing), but no one listens to me.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Digital files are usually better, but only in the moment. Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. Tell me again how much of a drag it is to have a set of shelves with movies on them?
  - mindslight 4y ago
    It's a drag when you pull out a movie you haven't watched in a while, and the disc is delaminating. Or you're watching something that glitches in a particular spot and you just end up fast forwarding to the next scene to keep watching, forever skipping that part of the movie. And then you remember you paid money for that trash. Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. And even if there were some compelling reason to leave the format behind, you can always transcode or just redownload.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      >Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. Basically, this will never happen (barring some kind of planetary catastrophe). The software for these codecs is ubiquitous and easily downloadable. You can still download software for very, very old codecs that didn't get as much use as x264; this stuff is all built into ffmpeg AFAIK. This is one of the huge benefits of open formats (or at least formats with free software decoders; remember MP3 was patent-encumbered for a long time but there was still a FOSS codec). Some weird proprietary format/codec doesn't have this benefit, such as DIVX (the DVD competitor, not to be confused with the FOSS codec).
  - lmm 4y ago
    > Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. You still get that with physical objects. How are your shelves of VHS tapes and LaserDiscs doing?
helsinkiandrew 4y ago
> This is the you'll own nothing and like it movement from HP. You pay per number of papers printed, and get ink in the mail but you are only renting the printer from HP and not owning it. This is how a lot of businesses do their printing/photocopying. And it can make sense if you're printing a lot per month. They don't have to worry about repairs/servicing or upgrading and can pay monthly/quarterly from expenses rather than capital outlay. Doing it for home use/small printers/small usage seems madness though.

voxelghost 4y ago

Bought an [another brand] Ink-Tank printer a few years back - and I am never going back to HP printers, or ink-cartridges whatever the brand. Edit; brand not important

somat 4y ago
I agree, brand is not important. However it would be nice to have a data point as to who is making these printers.
- voxelghost 4y ago
  Alright, my understanding is that the big ones are Canon, Epson, Brother, and Hp. Depending on brand and model they call them inktank/eco-tank/mega-tank/inkvestment ... and so on. Mine is a Canon, but from what I've seen/heard Epson, and Brother have happy users as well. Honestly haven't heard from anyone using a Hp inktank so I can't say anything about it.
  - deely3 4y ago
    I regret to inform you that I bought Canon Pixma with refill tank and I happy with it. I print colorful A4 every day, sometime bw pages, for two years and so far I spent like $8-12 on ink refills.
    - voxelghost 4y ago
      There seems to be some disconnect between >I regret to inform you ... and >...and I happy with it. >I spent like $8-12 on ink refills. Yeah I am still working on the bottles that came in the box, family of 4 with college students that print out a lot of work. For me it is not even the cost of the ink that bothers me the most with the ink-cartridge-printers, it is the constant complaining about Cyan cartridge being low, and then refusing to print even black and white documents, then you replace one and the next day it starts complaining about Magenta or Yellow. With the ink-tank there is a window into the tank - and you can see how much ink is left in each tank by this fantastic AR (Actual Realty) feature.

blamazon 4y ago

Whenever I click into Louis Rossman rant videos I am always so distracted by how much I want that chair. It looks so comfy. Re: printers, I recently replaced the toner cartridge that came with the Brother B&W multifunction laser printer I bought 12 years ago. Could not be happier with that thing. I sprung for the extended capacity cartridge at Micro Center for the replacement so there's a decent actuarial chance it will outlive me.

jojohohanon 4y ago
I have the brother stupid basic black and white laser printer with duplexing and WiFi. That thing is unstopable. Incredibly cheap to purchase and use. 100 would buy again.
- alex7734 4y ago
  Could I ask what model is it? I've read the newer models aren't as good but don't really know for sure
  - mschild 4y ago
    I have had the Brother MFC-L2710DN for close to 4 years now. I have had not a single problem with it. Super easy to use and maintain. 90% of the time it's completely turned off. Once left it unplugged for 5 months. Turned it back on and worked without a hitch.
  - albert_e 4y ago
    I use Brother DCP L-2540 DW bought for $100 eight years ago -- I took it with me when I moved countries -- still going strong. toner refills available from third parties on Amazon for very cheap. features wifi + ethernet laser monochrome printer with 2-sided duplex printing flatbed scanner & automatic document feeder for scanner no duplex for scanning (you will have to manually flip over the source pages if you want to scan the back side too)
    - CubsFan1060 4y ago

bruhreally 4y ago

[dead]

meitham 4y ago

If you truly want to own the devices you buy, once they’re home add firewall rules to block their connectivity to their manufacturers, ad servers. Your smart tv or printer can continue to happily work without access to HP cloud servers.

imposterr 4y ago
This is until 5G becomes so ubiquitous that manufactures start including connectivity chips in all their devices so they don't have to rely on you connecting to the internet <:{o
- HPsquared 4y ago
  That's where the tinfoil-lined house with firewalled Wi-Fi comes into its own.
- iso1631 4y ago
  Why couldn't they do that with 4G
  - vinyl7 4y ago
    The network couldn't handle that many devices
- criddell 4y ago
  If the printer has Wi-Fi, then all that really needs to happen is a business agreement with Amazon Sidewalk or Xfinity WiFi and a software update. If that happens, then lots of those offline printers could be online overnight.
- timbit42 4y ago
  Nothing a bit of tinfoil around the 5G module couldn't fix.
  - digitalsushi 4y ago
    at least until they learn how to program a 'timer'

toast0 4y ago

What do you expect to happen when you sign up for the subscription ink? If you don't pay for your subscription, the ink stops working. AFAIK, the printers compatible with subscription ink also work fine with regular ink. I will say, the UX is pretty poor when the subscription ends because the card can't be charged and the user doesn't read their email to know, and it's one of the printers that only has a non very obvious symbol to indicate the problem, and that symbol isn't shown in the manual, and someone (me) is helping them over the phone and only barely knew about the setup. And inkjets are such a PITA for low volume printing. I wish dotmatrix printers would come back. The output quality is poor, they're loud, the paper is iffy, but ink ribbons last a pretty good amount of time for low volumes, and there's near zero warm up time; and you can print banners!

mikewarot 4y ago
>What do you expect to happen when you sign up for the subscription ink? I would expect sufficient ink for the number of pages I signed up for to appear periodically until I have a large surplus, at which point I can either reduce my subscription, or cancel it. I wouldn't expect that ink to retroactively be bricked. Laser printers are far, far better in terms of consumables, as long as you avoid the very lowest cost units, and DRM hobbled units.
- toast0 4y ago
  Well, the sales page says you can rollover pages, but only until you have 3x your monthly alotment. The ink is only valid during your subscription period, like most other service subscriptions. When you cancel your phone, you don't to use the excess minutes. When you cancel your insurance, you don't get to make a claim for an event after the expiration date. It's 10 pages a month (or whatever plan you sign up for), so you didn't print and the month is done, so is your ink. You can put in a regular cartridge if you want regular rules, but $1/month to maybe print and they'll send more ink when it dries up seems like an ok deal to me? (Was better when it was free, but they got bills, I guess) Frankly, I don't expect ink cartridges to work after a month or two if I haven't printed anything, either. I'm happy with the color laser I got from CDW Outlet, but while discounted, it was still probably the cost of 4 inkjets and I don't know if I'll really use it enough to justify. But other than some duplexing oddities sometimes, it just works and that's really nice.

squokko 4y ago

Who exactly buys an inkjet printer these days? Photo nerds? Who needs anything other than a $99 black-and-white laser?

martin-adams 4y ago
Parents who need to print out worksheets for their kids homework
- ecf 4y ago
  Cool. Color laser jets exist.
  - deely3 4y ago
    And inkjet printers with possibility to refill ink banks exists too, so what?
    - ecf 4y ago
      You’re the one who made a point about homework assignments not being printable on an ink jet printer, so you tell me. Edit: Apologies, you weren’t OP.
      - zuhsetaqi 4y ago
        > You’re the one who made a point about homework assignments not being printable on an ink jet printer, so you tell me. No one made that point. First OP asked: > Who needs anything other than a $99 black-and-white laser? And the answer was basically parents for the kids.
    - timbit42 4y ago
      They still cost more than color laser printers when you factor in the cost of ink. If you need photo quality, take a memory stick of your photos to Walmart. They can do it better and cheaper.
deleted 4y ago

6510 4y ago

I have an older model, when the new ink arrived the significant other tossed out the old cartridge. How was she suppose to know it wont work if you have no old previously accepted cartridge? The lamest part is that it does print a test page AND prints the windos test page too. It bricks it self with a cartridge error the moment it receives a normal print job.

theGeatZhopa 4y ago

I want that chair. I don't need printer.

josephcsible 4y ago

If the government actually cared about the environment, forcing the creation of unnecessary waste like this would be illegal.

k8sToGo 4y ago
When they send you new ink, they send you an envelope where you can return the old cartridges for free. So there is recycling happening.
- znep 4y ago
  Or they at least want you to think that.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    This is an area where recycling probably happens. The ink costs far less than the cartridge, And it's not too hard to make a refillable cartridge. It's unlikely HP would bother with the envelopes if it wasn't cheaper for them then building new cartridges.
    - nerdbert 4y ago
      If $(perceived PR value of pretending to recycle) - $(envelopes) < $(marginal cost of making cartridges actually recyclable) then you can bet they are going straight in the dumpster.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        This ignores that there are options besides the envelopes. If they were just going to throw them away, they'd do something like team up with Best Buy to have an cartridge recycling bin available. Most of the PR value at a fraction of the cost. Actually sending prepaid envelopes means they're probably recycling them.
- flipbrad 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

Good thing I have an HP Laser that predates all that nonsense.

SentientAtom 4y ago

Imagine voluntarily enrolling in a "click charge" program for residential printing...

KronisLV 4y ago

What an absurd time to be alive: "Here's a device that you have supposedly bought, in full working order, with the supplies needed for it to work present... and yet, you cannot use it, unless you remain subscribed to the corporation that makes it." What's next? Scanners only working under a subscription? Your Wi-Fi router or switches only working when a license is active (even your LAN)? Your chargers, PSUs or UPSes only being allowed to work for 6 months, before you're forced to buy a newer model? Needing a monthly subscription to use your OS or browser? I don't even know anymore... The printer example feels like it shouldn't be legal. The whole printer ink situation feels a lot like that. The companies are probably going to get away with this, because they're the ones setting the rules, you're free to not use their services and instead turn to the non-existent companies that will put the users over maximizing profits. Edit: Louis suggests Brother as a brand that doesn't do this. However, what guarantees are there that they won't?

diceduckmonk 4y ago
> Your Wi-Fi router or switches only working when a license is active (even your LAN)? This is what OpenWRT is for. We need FOSS scanner and printer stack.
- techdragon 4y ago
  Which is ironic given one of the original motivations behind Richard Stallman getting involved in open source and part of the foundational history of the whole GNU FOSS organisations and ecosystem… is that he got frustrated with a printer and wanted to write his own software to run it (basically wanting to write his own firmware) for it. Given we have open source 3D printers… why are there no good open source regular printers? Does no one really care that much? Is it too much of a niche desire given the ubiquitous nature of shitty printers round the world being sold for less than they cost in a parasitical effort to trap owners into a sunk cost fallacy of paying for overpriced ink?
  - unwind 4y ago
    The argument I've been hearing when this comes up is that the mechanical side of ordinary 2d printers is too high-precision for hobbyist work. This sounds plausible, the actual nozzle holes in an inkjet printer are around .003 inches (76 µm for the rest of us) according to Wikipedia [1]. That sounds like some pretty high-order manufacturing is needed, I'm not drilling that out in the shed. Perhaps the best bet would be to find a commercially available printer (laser or inkjet) and reverse engineer it, perhaps replacing the control board with a Raspberry Pi or something more suitable (ESP32?) to drive the existing electro-mechanical components with an open firmare. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printing#Continuous_inkjet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printing#Continuous_ink...

gl-prod 4y ago

I don't know why tolerate printer companies. They are the devil.

unixhero 4y ago

Which printers are part of this?

timbit42 4y ago
HP inkjet printers with the Instant Ink program.

asdff 4y ago

Spotify does something somewhat similar as I've found recently. My card expired that was hooked into spotify. When I logged back in it let me know, but then I lost all of my saved content. Hundreds of albums that, as far as I can tell, I must now go through in my library and click individually to redownload. Downloads only happen when the spotify app is active and the display is not asleep. The chore seems so annoying that frankly I'm seriously considering being a pirate to never have to deal with this sort of thing again.

distances 4y ago
Is the reason to download hundreds of albums to have them available while traveling? I'm curious as I have only used Spotify as a streaming service.
- asdff 4y ago
  Yes, for airplanes, but also sometimes I don't have a great data connection for streaming while driving in a car or riding transit, or I'm approaching my data limit and would rather not burn LTE. I'd like to think battery life is improved too.
pancrufty 4y ago
> Spotify does something somewhat similar > then I lost all of my saved content I mean, hardly the same here. Offline content is only available to subscribed users, so it makes sense that it's physically deleted from your computer, but you don't lose it: all your "favorites" are still attached to your account. I do agree that it's a pain if you rely on offline music, but not re-downloading previously-downloaded content is more of a programming issue than a policy one, unless they specifically do it to save on egress fees. With their generous freemium program, I don't really fault Spotify here and it's unfair to compare it to HP.
- SamuelAdams 4y ago
  Maybe the solution is to give the user 3 days to update their credit card info, after that point process local deleting.

frankreyes 4y ago

Stallman was right all along.

RobotToaster 4y ago
The modern day Cassandra
unity1001 4y ago
He was right all along. And many of us always knew that. But some of us at least expected the industry to not be THIS sociopathic. This randian. There would at least be some semblance of sanity, we assumed. It appears not. Apparently the desire of 'the market' to extract maximum profit at ANY cost right here and right NOW tramples everything else. Consumer trust and the next decade's profits that hang on that trust be damned. Better to extract everything NOW, rather than build something long-lasting. This can only be solved by regulation now. We are back to where we were at the turn of the century before consumer protection laws and regulations existed.

prmoustache 4y ago

On another subject, why do so many youtube people have to record themselves with a giant ugly microphone, whose sound quality is usually just average by the way, hanging from a huge arm in front of them, instead of using a simpler lavalier setup?

bborud 4y ago
...which then inspires people who aren't youtubers to buy voice microphones which they aren't going to learn how to use so you either don't hear them, or they sound like their lips are almost resting on your ear.
mandmandam 4y ago
Comfort, convenience, speed and ease of both initial and general set-up.
rationalist 4y ago
I'm guessing because they think it looks professional and they think viewers will view them as an authoritative figure.
LoganDark 4y ago
Because a lavalier setup is something you have to wear, but a giant ugly microphone on an arm is something you can just sit near. It matters for mental effort when you just want to sit in your comfy chair and have a talk; all you have to do is hit record or stream on your computer, not mess with hooking up a microphone and a hardware recorder and such. It's not (always) because these microphones have superior sound quality or anything. It's because of the convenience. -Emily
astura 4y ago
YouTube is a visual media. I assume it's a look they are going for - they think it looks professional/serious.
humanizersequel 4y ago
Is a lav setup simpler? You can't just plop down in front of your desk and hit record that way. Sound quality is also a consideration, although that probably doesn't matter as much for this kind of video.

rawoke083600 4y ago

Yooo ! Nice one HP-Product-Managers. Never buying HP printers again. Crap like this sticks in the memory !

rawoke083600 4y ago

As bad is this is (and it's really bad) I do feel(hope) there will eventually arise a market and providers of "free-and-fair" devices. Example: -The Framework Laptop (Came at the height of the right-to-repair crap) -Linux (Remember them unix wars and specialised-expensive hardware) It will just be another "segment" to compete in, ie being more free-and-open than your competitors ? EDIT: Formatting

Talinx 4y ago
https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1617566347877298177 https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/161756634787729817... Currently have a ten year old HP printer, constantly causes problems. If Framework actually makes a printer I'll buy it instantly.
- rawoke083600 4y ago
  Damnn can you imagine that ? a Solid made-to-refill and use printer ! I'd buy something like that yesterday already !
LoganDark 4y ago
There's currently a glaring lack of high-performance repairable devices. Sure, the Framework laptop is a fun experiment, but it's tiny and has no GPU, so it's useless for our line of work/hobbies. I'd imagine many others feel the same. I wish people would throw out "thin and light" and make something practical. Nobody does it right. There are heavy laptops out there but they always sacrifice things like the display for that purpose. Maybe one day we'll try to build our own laptop, but that requires such an astronomical level of expertise and commitment and money that we probably won't ever get to. -Emily
- rawoke083600 4y ago
  >Sure, the Framework laptop is a fun experiment, Yes/No :) YMMV, but I do rate the framework a tad higher than just an experiment. This is technically the 'first-of-a-new-kind' of a product and or laptop. Give it a few more generation. The FW-Laptop might not have been the best example but my point is as much as these "evil-companies" do "evil-things" (like H.P now) there will arise a natural counter-market force an products (opportunities) to be "less-evil"

FpUser 4y ago

There is a sucker born every minute ... Why on earth people fell for this subscription racket in general is beyond me. I understand "subscribing" for things like Netflix. But "subscribing" for things like heated seats in your car I think is pure insanity.

kwhitefoot 4y ago
In theory it makes sense for people who live in warm climates who might occasionally drive to colder climes. And that is what BMW had in mind apparently. BMWs sold in Scandinavia will not have the option to subscribe apparently.

pookah 4y ago

Nobody is forcing people to buy this garbage and there's plenty of alternatives. My car and no car I will ever buy will have a subscription model. No printer will either.

danuker 4y ago
One alternative: an Arduino-controlled DIY plotter. Coincidentally, you could harvest a typical printer for many parts it needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Boss: I need you to print out 50 pages of text. Me, with a plotter instead of a printer: UHHHHHHHH
  - danuker 4y ago
    Eh. It will be slow but it can work unattended.
moffkalast 4y ago
The problem is you'll eventually find yourself without a car or printer to buy, with this becoming the most effective cash cow for all manufacturers.
college_physics 4y ago
> Nobody is forcing people to buy this garbage I never wanted a mobile with non-replaceable battery but suddenly the "market" decided that this the only option on offer I never wanted a social network or search engine that spies on me and creates my behavioral profile for sale, but suddenly the "market" decided that this the only viable business model for those services I never wanted a digital only payments system but soon the basic anonymity of using cash will be "suspicious" activity > My car and no car I will ever buy will have a subscription model You don't want a "subscription car" but I can assure you pretty soon both you and your car data will be traded amongst insurance companies, "brands" and who knows who else Joe Consumer doesn't have the time, education or energy to do anything about all this. This is down to regulatory capture of the institutions that should protect us from out-of-control corporate or state interests. This is the stark reality especially in the US. There are slowly diverging attitudes e.g., in Europe, where 500 million people and 27 countries don't agree on much but managed to agree on a few consumer / data protections. Lets hope we can reverse this dystopia before it becomes inescapable.

danuker 4y ago

Time to replace my printer. Perhaps I can harvest some of its parts and put them to better use. We have extremely cheap pens. If only we could use them to get output from a computer... DIY Pen Plotter with Automatic Tool Changer | Arduino based CNC Drawing Machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virDtVVt2Xo

toyg 4y ago

Digital feudalism will continue to rise, unless it's challenged at an ideological and political level.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

My employer's Help Desk's experience with current HP printers is why branch offices will soon be using a different brand. I don't know what kind of sadist looks at printers and says "I want to make those even worse", but apparently HP hired them.

ericlewis 4y ago

Exactly this happened to us recently and we ended up switching to a different brand printer a couple weeks ago. What is really strange is they must have done this like a ban hammer and why now? Our printer had been on an expired card for for literal years (ran out of black ink ages ago, but could use all the colors the same). Edit: also kind of funny to see the printer we changed over to mentioned in this thread as a common replacement.

hk1337 4y ago

They still got an HP but I finally got my parents into buying a laser printer instead of fooling around with inkjet and its cartridges. It was still quite a bit, and more than $100, because they insisted on color and multifunction printer but after a week and still so far AFAIK they’re loving the laser printer. I extolled how about my black and white laser printer like 5-7 years ago and I am still on the toner that came with the printer.

ppetty 4y ago

More fodder for the “dumb” devices market. Hold onto your offline car & toaster. Seriously, this is both astonishing and revolting for most people, but maybe we all need to learn how to keep our dumb stuff working instead of throwing it away.

chrisweekly 4y ago

My Brother laser printer is one of my all-time highest ROI purchases. Ironic that it's not just TCO, it cost hardly more upfront than the HP / Epson junk it's permanently replaced. After decades of constant annoyance w/ unreliable low-quality printer ink scammy nonsense, I have a fast, quiet, reliable, low-(zero?)-maintenance machine.

tfandango 4y ago

I use this service for now because my wife is a teacher and she has to print a lot of stuff, at home, in color (yea I know the schools should be paying for that but that's not how teaching in the US works apparently). The printer itself is like 100 dollars and I have to say the convenience of not having to drive to Walmart at 10pm Sunday because she surprise-printed 150 pages of stuff is kind of nice. That said the printer only prints well for about 2 years before color images just start to streak no matter how new your print cartridge is or how many times you clean/align. I'd love to invest in a color laser but last time I went through this it was close to 600 bucks to just get started. I wonder if it's time to check that option out again...

wolrah 4y ago
> I'd love to invest in a color laser but last time I went through this it was close to 600 bucks to just get started. A color laser is effectively four laser printers in one box, so it is inherently going to be multiple times the cost of a single one. That said, unless your wife is printing mostly actual photos that she cares about having in top quality, the color laser is the right answer if she actually needs color. Inkjet printers are for photos and nothing else. They range between not good and bad at documents, always have, and always will. Anything greyscale made of mostly solid colors is laser's territory.
Merad 4y ago
Brother has color laser printers starting at around $250, but they get you on the toner cartridges... $75 each and it takes four of them. It probably works out to be cheaper than an inkjet though since you don't have to worry about toner drying out when you've only used half the cartridge.
deelly 4y ago
Serious question: why not try inkjet with refillable tanks? I use Canon Pixma for 2 years, I print A4 full color page every day, one time I printed color book and BW book with a lot of images. I spent like $ 8-12 on non-original ink and I didn't even finish these 4 200ml bottles yet.
- 4y ago

swamp40 4y ago

Our HP OfficeJet Pro 8210 (2020) stopped printing in January because we had generic ink cartridges installed. It updated itself even though I had firmware updates turned off. Real HP cartridges are about $80 - the cost of a new printer. So you can guess what our next step will be and which brand we won't be buying.

default_png 4y ago
Part of me would be returning that to the shop...
- japanman425 4y ago
  Which part?

stevespang 4y ago

[dead]

stonemetal12 4y ago

Over the holidays my parents asked me for help with their printer. Turns out their printer had disconnected from wifi so it couldn't reach the subscription verification web service. Their desktop app could connect to their webservice and the printer but evidently that isn't good enough. It actually made me stop and think about starting a printer company, until I remembered Brother exists and isn't garbage yet. But even they have started a print rental service. :(

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Every hbackdoor will be hacked and the printers will be bricked by some third party, trying to extort the same value from hp. Customers will demand refunds for printers that print obscenitys and self-destroy.

xorry 4y ago

can someone recommend an office printer for infrequent use that runs on linux and doesn't require proprietary drivers?

whoomp12342 4y ago

never buying an HP computer again.

labrador 4y ago

I don't know why anyone buys HP printers and at this point I'm afraid to ask

onewheeltom 4y ago

I own 2 printers. A Brother laser printer (about $110) and a $59 HP Envy printer running Instant Ink. I gave away a working HP Office Jet and am totally satisfied. I totally understand the bargain. I’m paying for prints, not ink. I’ve had way fewer problems with this HP than any inkjet I have owned. Swapping ink carts costs me nothing. Support has been surprisingly good. I’m happy to pay HP $5.99 a month for 50 prints. If something goes wrong, the onus is on HP to get it working or they don’t get paid. Note that I have 2 printers so even if problems with the HP, I still have the Brother.