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I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and t

by 65 4y ago

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I don't have a girlfriend, friends, or a life in this city. I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. The maker space closed early. I'm creative, I like working. I just wanted to go to an office. That's all I wanted. I wanted a routine. I wanted to commute and people watch. I wanted to feel like I was living life. But no, I had a remote job. I got a new job that's supposed to be 3 days a week in office. Guess what? My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office. And here I am, again, in the torture of solitary confinement. I've been thinking about getting a new career, going into the trades. Anything that would allow me to have consistent interaction with other people. I've become anti-technology, anti-society. I'm an optimistic person, yet I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me.

AussieWog93 4y ago
I'm self-employed in eCommerce but what you said was 100% true. Best thing for my mental health over the past year was getting a dedicated office space and a couple of staff members. Just no longer feel alone when doing my job.
nostromo 4y ago
Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other people doesn't seem fair to them. They have social lives outside of work and aren't being paid to be someone's social outlet.
- pxue 4y ago
  C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments below. Some of the commenters describe a friend as someone who will maintain a connection with you no matter the circumstance (loss of job, moving to a new city etc) I believe that is an unrealistic expectation. Friend just means someone you have established a platonic relationship with right here right now. You may drift apart in the future, but what's important is that the connection and relationship is genuine and real.
  - mettamage 4y ago
    Digital nomad here. I like being one. For me making friends, the best places are: Tinder (it took a lot of effort) and just giving compliments to people on the street (it took some effort to learn). Regarding complimenting people on the street and potentially turning it into a conversation, it takes some practice. 10 years ago when I did some solo traveling (before uni even) for the first time, I had the choice to stay inside and feel even more agony or to go out and experience social anxiety and pain. I've experienced a lot of social anxiety and pain (initially). It feels better than feeling lonely. There are courses on how to make friends (and influence people :P, see "How to make friends and influence people", it's a book, I haven't read it though). If you really want to, you can consciously make an effort on bettering social skills and meet anyone everywhere and maintaining it. A good channel (a bit too broad though) is Charisma on Command [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/@Charismaoncommand https://www.youtube.com/@Charismaoncommand
    - calsy 4y ago
      What bizarro world is this?
      - mettamage 4y ago
Volundr 4y ago
I hear you and doubt nothing about your plight, but frankly that feels like a you problem. I can sympathize while also rejecting the idea that I should have to come into the office so your not lonely. Have you considered a co-working space? It seems like that could get you what your looking for. Beyond that I'd look to get creative around finding ways to get social outside work. A martial arts or social dance class for example. Frankly I think it's much healthier if your coworkers aren't the core of your social life. FWIW I too had this problem at the start of the pandemic. My solution was to build a gym and workout with my friends 3x a week. Obviously this isn't a solution for your plight in a new city.
- cal85 4y ago
  > frankly that feels like a you problem It's also a me problem, so there's at least two of us.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I’ve asked around my friend and coworkers group all 20s and everyone feels this way. Remote work is terrible for young people.
    - smashers1114 4y ago
      Not true of my friend and coworker group. You should think carefully of confounding factors before taking anecdotal data and extrapolating to something that applies to a much larger group.
    - Insanity 4y ago
      Anecdata, but my friends in the 22 - 26 range don't feel this way. _But_, they have an active social life (football club together) and go out together every weekend or every other weekend. And they don't mind remote work. So I don't think it's an age issue, but more a socializing issue?
      - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
Gigachad 4y ago
My story is very similar to yours. Used to be ok with remote work but then I had a break up last year and need to get back to the office. Unfortunately all the tech jobs are in other cities of Australia so I can only get remote jobs. Made the decision this month to pack up everything and move to Melbourne so I can work in the office among other things.
- idonotknowwhy 4y ago
  Welcome. Plenty of 3 day in the office and even 5 day in the office tech jobs here. Also great cafes you can work from on the remote work days. PT and urban sprawl sucks though, which is why I did the opposite and work remotely 100% now.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I'm from Adelaide. PT is effectively non existent and urban sprawl is worse. Melbourne is like a utopian society to me. I'm quite happy to live in an apartment near the CBD and take the train in. It blows my mind they come every 5 minutes, I'm used to trains coming every 30 minutes or just not running at all half the time.
roncesvalles 4y ago
Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work. We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?
- kelnos 4y ago
  I've made plenty of real, meaningful, long-term friendships at work. But I also have solid friend groups of people I've met outside work. I value all of them, but I'm not going to give up the opportunity to have more flexible working arrangements because some people seem to think they can only make friends at work. > We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work? "Want" and "need" aren't the same thing. We made friends at school because we had no choice. We were required to go to school, so of course the result is that we'd end up making friends there. But even as children, we had other opportunities to make friends: recreational sports leagues, boy/girl scouts, church groups (if that was your family's thing), volunteering, etc. Sure, I'm not saying those sorts of things could replace socialization at school. But in the adult world, we've already been socialized, and we should be able to meet people outside of required, structured activities. It's a shame that some people perhaps didn't learn that as well as others, but I don't think that's a problem best solved by requiring unrelated people to come to an office, when remote work offers so much more flexibility and many more possibilities.
  - roncesvalles 4y ago
    This is exactly the attitude that I'm protesting against. I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months. Work or school are really the only places where you can spend that much time with someone. Then again, part of the problem is that people have forgotten what real friendships are like. "Friends" these days are just people you go to restaurants/clubs/concerts/vacations/hiking/camping with so that you don't have to go alone. That's not friendship. That's just people you hang out with. It might cure the itch for a real friendship, but don't confuse it for one.
krippe 4y ago
So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Gen Z and A are going to have serious problems. Work and School are biggest sources of friends. The two things they missed out on. I doubt many friends were made in the chat box of an online class.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    School goes on until you're 18 or so (and even later if you go to university). Two-ish years of online schooling certainly hurt a bit, but is a small percentage of available childhood socialization time.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      It’s so many small things chipping away at young people’s social lives, car dependant design, remote schooling, remote work, the loss of public spaces and facilities, social media, etc. We can see the trend, young people are constantly getting more lonely and isolated, but we only make changes that make it worse.
  - juve1996 4y ago
    Feels like a major overreaction. > I doubt many friends were made in the chat box of an online class. Many people became friends online. We have apps, for meeting people, online, and THEN dating them.
  - erenyeager 4y ago
    Actually I’ve seen kids share Roblox usernames through zoom chat boxes and then socialize via zoom calls while they play an online game on their iPads… it is totally possible to socialize, it just starts online now
- matrisking 4y ago
kelnos 4y ago
The problem is that the solution is entirely within your grasp, but you've decided that the only way to solve your problem is through in-office socialization. Find co-workers who are local and suggest meeting for lunch or dinner on occasion. Hopefully you've developed some level of rapport through video calls and chats so this won't feel weird to you. Your company/team should be organizing regular get-togethers anyway. If not, they are failing at doing remote work. I hesitate to say "find a new company where they are better at this", but that's better than "require everyone to come into an office to fix your social life". Beyond that, don't center your social life around work. Go to meetups dedicated to topics and activities you're interested in. Just get out and walk! > I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. The maker space closed early. I'm creative, I like working. I just wanted to go to an office. That's all I wanted. I wanted a routine. I wanted to commute and people watch. I wanted to feel like I was living life. That seems to be a problem you've created for yourself, and it's a bit selfish to want to require everyone else to go to an office in order to make your choices work for you. Stop working all day. Set boundaries with your employer. If the maker space really closes by 5pm, negotiate a more flexible work schedule where you get to take a 2-hour break (or something) around lunch or in the afternoon so you can go to the maker space, but then you work later into the evening, or get up earlier in the morning to start work. Also, I'm not sure how any of this would have changed if you were working in an office: the maker space would still close early, and you still would be working all the time and be unable to get there during their open hours. If you want to people-watch, take a 30-minute walk in the morning and in the evening, to replace what a commute would be like. > I'm an optimistic person, yet I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me. This is a bit much, frankly. If you really truly are so inflexible that you can't imagine a good life without an office job, find a new job that has an office you can go to! This isn't rocket science. These jobs exist. Stop advocating making life worse for all of the people whose lives have been markedly improved by the extra opportunities for remote work, just because you can't figure out your own life.
AnEro 4y ago
I've been thinking the same, for me, it's also the work hours were to get ahead I have to do 60 hours on the business side AND homework to get more skills. Even just a part-time job or something to have a mental reset, money would be tight but every angle I see it could be easier to be happier.
wtp1saac 4y ago
Relating to this a lot. I've barely had much in person social interaction since 2020, where college for me ended up remote for the pandemic. Was a relief when classes went back in person a year later, but too little too late for me to build up any meaningful social interactions there, and now I'm in a remote job to the opposite end of the country (and other parts of the world with even more disparate timezones), so I'm pretty much in a similar boat of no meaningful in person interaction. I like technology as an auxiliary means of communicating with people, but having pretty much 95-100% of my interactions occur over texting and calling (people don't even usually bother to turn on their cameras) has been a personal hell, and honestly has soured my opinion of the entire internet. Beyond just work, what few personal relationships I do have at this point are usually also remote, so actually spending real life time with people is this far distant tertiary form of interacting, when it's the natural bloody thing we're evolved to do as a species. Now you have companies like Meta investing in the metaverse "future" where we sit in VR headsets, trade crypto for fake digital goods, have romantic relationships with virtual avatars, and sit in virtual offices so our twenty-poly character models can discuss around a fake whiteboard. I just want to be around people again.
camgunz 4y ago
I have every sympathy for you--social contact is a basic human need. But I see this argument here and there and I feel like I have to point out that this is an argument for you to get social contact, not to make millions of people commute to/from work every day. Getting on the social on-ramp is hard, especially if you live in a culture where overwork is praised and normalized. I had that problem too (I moved from the US to the Netherlands and this was one of the major reasons why). I super suggest taking a step back from work--it's clearly keeping you from doing other things that are critical for your mental health--and then using that time to invest in other parts of your life.
djbusby 4y ago
My solution is to go to the pub once or twice (or thrice) a week
yodsanklai 4y ago
> Guess what? My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office. This may sounds crazy but I actually like to go to the office when I'm team isn't there! The place is lively and there are other people who aren't in my team, and I prefer to interact with them (perhaps it's less stressful as we're less likely to talk about ongoing team work, or they won't require my assistance).
inoop 4y ago
If you're in NYC and want to grab lunch let me know
- dnissley 4y ago
  I'll chime in here for Seattle -- same offer
tacotacotaco 4y ago
“I was working all day.” Are you getting paid to work 16 hour days? If not then stop giving your employer free work. You’re devaluing your skill. Go for a walk outside. Say hello to a stranger. Volunteer at the library e.g. helping illiterate adults learn to read, or helping English as a second language speakers by chatting with them. Go to a game store. They usually have open board/card/rpg games you can join. Some bars also have this. Look online for activity groups in your area e.g. a photography group that walks around the city together. A gardening group. A sewing group. A painting group. Some of these might be advertised at your local library. Some might even meet there. Can’t find one your interested in? Make your own. Look at public events in your city. Some of these are run by non-profits that would love if you volunteered to assist. Be careful about what you volunteer for though. Since you are looking for human interactions do not offer to help with their website, for example, since that is solitary work. These events need plenty of on-hand help.
lolinder 4y ago
I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the preferences of the people with the most influence, and because opinions vary so widely there will be lots of diversity in outcomes. And that's a really good thing. It's unfair that those of us who can't stand being in an office were made to go into the office to satisfy the social needs of other people who aren't getting enough socialization in their personal life. But it's also not right for people like you to feel like you have no choice but to be isolated. What we need is for people to not feel trapped in a job that has the wrong balance of remote and in-person. If you are the only one of your coworkers who feels the way that you do, maybe the answer is to find a company where the majority of employees share your desire for in-person work. I know that sounds overwhelming right now, but once you've made the leap once you won't be stuck in the wrong alignment again.
- monksy 4y ago
  I agree with your statement about him being the most honest person here. The most I can give him credit for is that you're already out and it keeps you from going back to your house. Everytime I read that "humans are social creatures" it's a dog whistle for "i want to see people miserable and pressured to do it"
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    He doesn't want you back in the office. He wants people like him back in the office.
- dsugarman 4y ago
  Put yourself in the executives shoes for a second, they're not stupid people, they know how large the risk of blowback is and how many employees they might disenfranchise or lose. They're that confident that remote work is a bigger threat to their long-term performance and they don't want to get lapped by the companies with an in-office culture
krabizzwainch 4y ago
I am there 100% too. And yet every time I bring it up somewhere like reddit I get responses like “just deal with it, I’m not coming into the office just because you are lonely.” Chances are that these are not the people that I would miss in an office environment in general. I probably wasn’t having fun office conversations with them. I need my habits and routines, and I just don’t make myself stick to the routines when I stay home. Less of a reason to shower at the same time or at all, less of a reason to take walking breaks during work hours. It has come down to me being able to handle a bullshit job when I like the people I work with and see them often enough to where we are inbetween work friends and real friends. But a bullshit job where my coworkers aren’t even interesting or nice to talk to? I’m just not gonna want to work with them ever again.
abyssin 4y ago
I left the tech sector because of the same issue, although I have a family and friends. I'm poorer and my situation is quite unstable. But I no longer have to endure this depressing loneliness during work hours.
lamontcg 4y ago
> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. Benefit of remote work is generally that its flexible and you can schedule time in the day to get out and do things than otherwise the usual office grind would prevent. Your employer shouldn't care that you're out at noon but working at 7pm instead as long as the work is getting done. Sounds like you also have boundary issues where you're working all the time and killing yourself, quite voluntarily, for your job. You should consider just stopping doing that. You probably won't fall behind. If you have remote work and a rigid schedule like you're constantly oncall and dying because of the work, then find better and more human remote work.
monksy 4y ago
I was a remote worker for an earlier part of my 20s as a consultant. What you have to do is you have to be proactive about your social activities and find a thing that allows you to do that. I ended up starting my own social group off of reddit. That helped a lot and taught me a lot about groups. Couchsurfing was great for the social aspect. Another thing to note: Just because you are around coworkers it doesn't mean you'll relate to them well. Some have a tendancy to stab you in the back.
wetpaws 4y ago
This should be a problem of your therapist, not your coworkers.
wnolens 4y ago
Are you me? Jesus I took a regular job in January 2020 because I was over being a contract developer working at home. No luck now.. I agree fully with you. I'm in my 30s though everything else the same. I would definitely feel oppositely if I had a partner and kids (like my brother) but I don't. People saying it's a "you" problem are missing the big picture. For a lot of people, the workplace is a primary context in their life.
onion2k 4y ago
I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me. There are tons of companies that still have offices. Get a job with one.
gtvwill 4y ago
I feel ya, try being a remote area drillers offsider. Week after week, in the dark on night shift. No radio to even hear another humans voice because there isn't any reception in the middle of nowhere. No one to talk to. Hella wrecks your mental health. Makes you appreciate the jebus out of f2f hands on trades. Stuff where your actually involved with people and the results of your work aren't a constant reminder of how detached from society you truly are.
danaris 4y ago
This is actually a symptom of a much larger problem with our society as it exists today, which is that we've systematically dismantled all our communities and support systems outside of work and the (immediate) family. Humans are social creatures, and for the vast majority of human history, we've existed in communities of various shapes. Evolutionarily, psychologically, and even physiologically, it's not healthy for us to be going to work for 8 hours—with or without people—then retreating to a home with just our immediate families 5 days a week, (nearly) 52 weeks a year. The shift in zoning after WWII to heavily prioritize hard separation between residential and commercial areas (motivated, in no small part, by racism) is a major culprit in the creation of this new lifestyle, and disruption of previous forms of order. (Though I believe the first big shift was probably the Industrial Revolution.) I don't have much of a solution to offer in the short term, because it's not a short-term kind of problem. However, I do know that there's a movement called Intentional Communities[0] that's supposed to be working on counteracting it; perhaps you could look them up and see if there's anything in your area. [0] https://www.ic.org https://www.ic.org
otikik 4y ago
> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day That’s your decision. Very convenient for your employer. Perhaps not so convenient to you, given that you are getting depressed. > My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office. That’s their decision.
shadeslayer 4y ago
I've been in the same place you are now. I completely agree with the need for a healthy routine to be able to keep depression at bay and not having a environment to socialize robs you of key experiences we all need to have in our youths in order to be well adjusted later in life. Having said that, you're in a great place to make a few key changes that might help! I moved to another country and learnt a new language and a whole new culture when I was in the same place as you! Perhaps that's not a option for you, but maybe you could travel to a new city for a week or two! Trial out a few places and see what fits you. It takes a bit of effort and persistence, at the cost of routine, but having a fresh start might be the thing that gets you out of this. Edit: You might want to look up Croissant to go and meet other remote co workers, there's a fair few of us around the world ;)
xylo 4y ago
I have the same feeling of solitary confinement. I now dream of working at Costco or Whole Foods to have some social interaction.
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ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I have no opinion on whether or not remote is good (I work alone, at home, and I'm fine with it, but I also understand the draw of office life). I would strongly suggest volunteer work, as a way to socialize. Geeks have extremely valuable skills, and can give a great deal, to most volunteer efforts. In my case, I have been involved in a fellowship, for my entire adult life, and it richly satisfies my socialization needs. I also do a great deal of tech volunteer work for it. I wish you luck, but I'm not sure that returning to the office would fix things.
crocowhile 4y ago
> but no time - I was working all day This is your problem. The rest is a red-herring.
eddsh1994 4y ago
I understand this completely, having worked remotely since February 2019. Can't wait to meet people more often.
PureParadigm 4y ago
Your feelings are shared by many others our age. Friends at work are important, especially if you're living alone. I live alone in a city with friends within reach, but only having friends outside of work is not enough social interaction for me. Consider how much social time there is in high school and college. There was barely a moment to be alone. Classes are full of discussion, meals are eaten together, and shooting the shit with siblings or roommates fills in all the other time. If you forego social interaction during work hours, I don't see how the math adds up to get back to the baseline from high school and college. It sounds like you have an office to go to even though your team doesn't come in often. This is the case for me too, but luckily I'm at a big enough company where there are people my age on other teams. At first, barely anyone came in, but someone has to break the deadlock so I kept coming in every day regardless. Fast forward a year and there is a group of 20-somethings that come in every day. I've formed some of the best friendships of my life here. I recommend going into the office every day even if it's going to be empty. It's a good routine anyway to get out of the house. While I don't have any personally, I'd also recommend housemates. A lot of my friends from work have housemates and I feel like it's an easy way to build a large friend group since you can share each other's friends. It especially seems to help those who are new to the city and don't have a friend group yet. Your housemates can also easily become your friends! I really sympathize with your situation. You're simply asking for what used to be normal to return. Don't lose hope - there are so many of us like you and we just need to find each other.
VerminOctopus1 4y ago
Blaming the fact that you don’t have any friends or romantic partners or a “life in this city” on remote working is absolutely absurd. Relying on a corporate office to bring you those things is most likely going to end in disappointment. Get a job that doesn’t demand your entire wakeful life on this earth and find some hobbies you can share with people where you’re not constrained by the weirdness of office politics and culture.
fsociety 4y ago
> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. This is the problem in my opinion. Not the fact that you were working all day, but generally that our work now bleeds into personal lives or leaves no time for it.
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jraph 4y ago
I tried office work and enjoyed meeting coworkers. Made some friends there. I'm working from home and like it so much though. I somehow live my best life alone during the day for work and see people several times in the week outside work, but I personally think that's a great way to both avoid commute time. I live in a city where I have a lot of friends, and it was always clear to me that remote work would work for me only if I could meet people regularly. I also practice piano, and I am in a choir with a hundred people that allows me to constantly meet people. I need to see people and would not like spending days without seeing anybody. You can't bet only on work for meeting people. It can work by luck, but an ex coworker of mine recently left my ex-company and the city, because he was only seeing coworkers and didn't manage to meet people in the city, they ended up feeling lonely, aka work from the office didn't fix their loneliness. It's also a matter of social skills, and joining groups, and stuff like this if you don't have an established social group yet. I also think remote work is not for everybody, and preferences might evolve during someone's life. I guess there will be office-first companies for people who prefer being at the office, remote-first companies for us preferring remote work, and hybrid ones if they manage to pull if off. That's very hard but somehow my current company is very successful in this, but you will need to have remote-first habits in such an hybrid setting, like using the chat / mail / whatever even between people at the office at the same time for many things. So I have four pieces of advice for you, each one can suffice: - move to a city where you already have friends - make sure it allows you to meet new people too. - join clubs, do stuff outside work. Work is a mean to have a good life, don't spend all of your life at work, that's nonsense, unless it's absolutely what you love and you are happy, but that's not your case - join an office-first or hybrid company. You don't need to stay at a remote company if you don't like it - you can still be at a remote company, but go to a coworking space. Try it out! I have a coworker who does this. You can have a routine, meet the same people everyday and have breaks / eat lunch with them, etc exactly like coworkers, just that you don't work on the same things. Not the same thing as working at the same place with people who you work with but I guess that can be enriching / rewarding too in its own way. Finding a coworking space was my plan B if I figured I didn't like working from home in the end. My company would be willing to pay for it. Hasn't happened yet but I personally think that's a great way to both avoid commute time, see people during the day, address the loneliness of remote work, and not be limited by the choice of whatever companies are near you. Good luck, I hope you will find a solution that works out for you!
quailfarmer 4y ago
Wow, this hits close to home. I just moved a thousand miles from school to a new state. I live near work, which is about 30 miles from the nearest city (no public transit to speak of). If there's any spots for young people to socialize nearby, I haven't been able to find them. My long-term girlfriend has a career near where we went to school, so many weekends I'm traveling there, or she is here. Both of which are great, but neither of which are conducive to making friends in this new place. I'm really excited about the job, and I'm a late sleeper. I tend to work 11am to around 9pm. I've had some roommates, but they've been pretty uninterested. Luckily, work is fully in-person, and it's a very young office. The first few months were rough, but I've finally made friends with people, I had a barbecue, we went skiing, went to see a co-workers band perform. My personal situation could be a lot worse, but it could have also been a lot better. Compared to the last year of my Masters program, the adjustment period was very painful, and I think not having human interaction would have made it worse. -- Though, (and I'm just realizing it now), if the job were remote, I could have just stayed in the part of the country where I had many friends. Sadly, I work with hardware, so that's probably not going to happen.
watwut 4y ago
> Day in, day out. All alone. I don't have a girlfriend, friends, or a life in this city. You expect to find a girlfriend on the job? I don't mean it as a snark. But in office means that work and communiting takes even more of your life. Unless she comes from the job, which is unlikely in male dominated profession, being with team won't get you girlfriend.
- shepherdjerred 4y ago
  > You expect to find a girlfriend on the job? The parent didn't say this. He probably meant it as in "if I had a girlfriend, not having friends wouldn't be as rough".
- aworks 4y ago
  I met my wife and all my previous girlfriends at work. Only one was a software engineer but they were all smart...
calsy 4y ago
Why get paid while your socialising with people in a work environment when you can isolate yourself at home and talk to randoms on the street or join clubs at your own expense and time. Friends can be made anywhere BUT work now apparently. Why do kids need to go back to school? They can sit at a desk at home. They can make friends elsewhere and they don't need to go to school for physical activity. They can do that in any club, group meet, sport, hobby whatever. Schools for learning after all, not making friends.
trieste92 4y ago
It isn't just you, but also consider that this kind of situation is somewhat common now and probably won't last > And here I am, again, in the torture of solitary confinement. If you spending time alone is torture, is it torture because of the loneliness or is it torture because you aren't at peace with yourself? I get that connection is needed, but if you're in a situation where it's inconvenient or hard to find you shouldn't be attacking yourself because of this
sys_64738 4y ago
Your priorities are all wrong if you live to work. You need to make a life unconnected to work as you might be fired any day. People I work with are coworkers, nothing more.
deleted 4y ago
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ajb 4y ago
I think this is a transitional phase. If remote work takes over, there will be a rise of co working spaces for mates to work in together. Young people will use them to find friends and partners, and young parents will use them to share babysitting shifts with other young parents. That will actually be better for social life, because people won't need to lose touch when they change jobs. People were stuck at home by the pandemic, not by remote work.
capitanazo77 4y ago
Office friends aren’t necessarily great friends. Great people is found while doing great things
TechnicolorByte 4y ago
Just wanted to say I relate completely. Moved a year before pandemic to a completely new place straight out of school and struggled making friends. COVID ruined what little social circle I had started to form. If you (or anyone else reading this) are in the SF Bay Area in a similar situation and are looking for potential friends, hit me up at my profile email
op00to 4y ago
From those of us with kids, many just want to do our jobs and get a paycheck. Work lets us live, we do not live to work. We are not looking for some third place or a dating situation. Go to a climbing gym or get a dog or something if you want to meet people.
Awelton 4y ago
As a lifetime introvert that doesn't really care for human interaction I have never really thought about this perspective before. I have worked remote for years and commuting all the way to another building just to do the same thing I was already doing at home would feel like a pointless hoop to jump through at this point. I wonder how many people demanding that everyone return to the office are just lonely?
deafpolygon 4y ago
I'm the exact opposite way - I want a remote job but I can't find one. I'd be happiest in an office of my own making with the hours of my own choosing, and I'm very good at creating boundaries between work and life at home. I loath having to sit in a cube, with people that might stop by and break my flow of concentration with small talk (What even is small talk? How's the weather? How about them dodgers? What?) But I don't know anyone who would hire me to do remote work. Nor how to find one reliably. I'm getting depressed at the thought that I might have to go work in a physical box again.
itstooreal 4y ago
Thanks for your very honest comment. At my office we’re hybrid and people oscillate between the home and in-office for the same reasons as you - sometimes it’s just nice to hang out with people, even if you’re working. I would hope you wouldn’t have to abandon your career and maybe a little job hopping is in order. I don’t think the world will go full remote, even if that’s personally the way I enjoy it.
rendaw 4y ago
While my reaction isn't the same as yours, I'm in roughly the same position. You didn't mention it so I wanted to ask, have you tried going to coworking spaces? That seems like a solution for the "let the people who want to work at home work at home, let people who want company have company" issue... I haven't myself yet so I'm curious.
Orzelius 4y ago
I recently moved into a share house and extremely recommend the experience. I think it would help with what you seem to be dealing with. Best of luck!
UntwistedApple 4y ago
I'm in my early twenties and still studying, but working as well, for around 15hours a week. Fully remote. Much worse, the only human interaction I have during this time is a weekly 30min team meeting. It's two days a week for me. Mostly alone, just sitting in my bedroom and working on my own tiny project. I'm lucky because I do have social interaction in the university, but I feel just how much of any job-related motivation this kills. If I would be full time amployed, this would be driving me into a depression as well. I'm sure that you will be able to find some nice people to hang out with and talk to.
jtode 4y ago
Can't really type here but: I feels ya.
softwaredoug 4y ago
From the employers PoV imagine a world where you have an influx of junior employees and interns. They need a higher level of structure and need the social outlet of work. If you're trying to build up this talent, it seems easier to do in the structure of an office. Imagine a junior employee even potentially moving somewhere for a job? Currently, the economy is not aggressively hiring at the junior level. But this could change. What does that world look like when junior employees go into a fully isolated and remote setup? Either we need a structured central place for supporting those employees or society needs to solve these social and economic problems in a completely different way. Remote work is easier for senior employees with families or a more established life. I think many here probably fit into this category. After even 4-5 years of life in an office, you probably lose the need to regularly see employees. But being junior / early on, it's a VERY tough road to be fully remote.
happymellon 4y ago
What is your office environment like? I too would like some in-person time with colleagues, but I also know that with an open plan office it can be so noisy that I know that nothing will get done. Prior to 2019 a well used phrase was "I need to work from home so that I can get stuff done" and we all understood it. A lot of actions have been taken over the years to ensure that we know who the boss is, Taylorism is the cause and the boss gets an office. We have had decades of research showing that open plan offices increase sick days by 30%, and reduce productivity. Unfortunately you are right at this inflection point where those of us who have suffered the worst of it are fed up and want change. The best we can do is work from home. Have you told other members of your team this? I don't need to see my friends every day to know they are my friends, but would once a week or fortnight help, even if it was to pair with one other person?
Mandatum 4y ago
Work for the government, or finance with a strict "no remote" policy.
roland35 4y ago
Maybe try switching to another field in engineering - software development is certainly the most remote friendly discipline. Mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, there are lots of great on-site careers and they are a much better use of your existing skills
burhanrashid52 4y ago
Similar happening to me as well. I thought remote work will bring me freedom of time and place but spending 2 years at home without any interaction with outside people made me a negative and depressed person for a few months. But I somehow found the balance by going to a co-working space, going to the gym and playing any physical sport. PS: I live with 6 people but it still happened to me.
fennecfoxy 4y ago
As someone that has worked in the office and now from home I wouldn't consider making "friends" at the office to be a substitute for making friends outside of work. Check some of the event type apps such as meetup, they usually have quite a few fun things on there with cool people to meet doing all sorts of hobbies. Then again, it is true that tech can be quite lonely and solitary work, so as you mentioned a career shift may be in order.
1290cc 4y ago
You're completely right to feel this way. Reading about your struggles made me reflect on my twenties in tech and what a day to day looked like. Most mornings would start on a tube commuting into central london, getting to see how people dress, was anyone attractive on my route? what music should I listen to on the way? Then getting into the office, I worked with with engineer that was a developer at roscosmos and escaped the soviet union. We would walk the streets of london and discuss what problems we were going to solve that day and have a morning espresso while doing it. The city was always buzzing with traders and office workers. Work was tough but I had a lunch outside to look forward to with my team. If it was thursday or friday most of us would head to a pub for a late boozy lunch or end up at bricklane for a curry and the night just went on and on. Amazing time and when I compare that to the last few years of remote work it cant even come close to the interactions and experiences I gained during that time. My day to day has been wakeup, grab a coffee, walk into my office and start responding to emails. I then try to squeeze in time to walk my dog and then get back to continue more meetings and zoom calls. Once the day ends I'm pretty exhausted and try to get outside to ride my bike or go to the gym. I physically interact with less than 2 people a day. My wife and the barista at the local coffee shop. I completely empathize with how you're feeling!

by 65 4y ago

AussieWog93 4y ago

I'm self-employed in eCommerce but what you said was 100% true. Best thing for my mental health over the past year was getting a dedicated office space and a couple of staff members. Just no longer feel alone when doing my job.

nostromo 4y ago

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other people doesn't seem fair to them. They have social lives outside of work and aren't being paid to be someone's social outlet.

pxue 4y ago
C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments below. Some of the commenters describe a friend as someone who will maintain a connection with you no matter the circumstance (loss of job, moving to a new city etc) I believe that is an unrealistic expectation. Friend just means someone you have established a platonic relationship with right here right now. You may drift apart in the future, but what's important is that the connection and relationship is genuine and real.
- mettamage 4y ago
  Digital nomad here. I like being one. For me making friends, the best places are: Tinder (it took a lot of effort) and just giving compliments to people on the street (it took some effort to learn). Regarding complimenting people on the street and potentially turning it into a conversation, it takes some practice. 10 years ago when I did some solo traveling (before uni even) for the first time, I had the choice to stay inside and feel even more agony or to go out and experience social anxiety and pain. I've experienced a lot of social anxiety and pain (initially). It feels better than feeling lonely. There are courses on how to make friends (and influence people :P, see "How to make friends and influence people", it's a book, I haven't read it though). If you really want to, you can consciously make an effort on bettering social skills and meet anyone everywhere and maintaining it. A good channel (a bit too broad though) is Charisma on Command [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/@Charismaoncommand https://www.youtube.com/@Charismaoncommand
  - calsy 4y ago
    What bizarro world is this?
    - mettamage 4y ago

Volundr 4y ago

I hear you and doubt nothing about your plight, but frankly that feels like a you problem. I can sympathize while also rejecting the idea that I should have to come into the office so your not lonely. Have you considered a co-working space? It seems like that could get you what your looking for. Beyond that I'd look to get creative around finding ways to get social outside work. A martial arts or social dance class for example. Frankly I think it's much healthier if your coworkers aren't the core of your social life. FWIW I too had this problem at the start of the pandemic. My solution was to build a gym and workout with my friends 3x a week. Obviously this isn't a solution for your plight in a new city.

cal85 4y ago
> frankly that feels like a you problem It's also a me problem, so there's at least two of us.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I’ve asked around my friend and coworkers group all 20s and everyone feels this way. Remote work is terrible for young people.
  - smashers1114 4y ago
    Not true of my friend and coworker group. You should think carefully of confounding factors before taking anecdotal data and extrapolating to something that applies to a much larger group.
  - Insanity 4y ago
    Anecdata, but my friends in the 22 - 26 range don't feel this way. _But_, they have an active social life (football club together) and go out together every weekend or every other weekend. And they don't mind remote work. So I don't think it's an age issue, but more a socializing issue?
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago

Gigachad 4y ago

My story is very similar to yours. Used to be ok with remote work but then I had a break up last year and need to get back to the office. Unfortunately all the tech jobs are in other cities of Australia so I can only get remote jobs. Made the decision this month to pack up everything and move to Melbourne so I can work in the office among other things.

idonotknowwhy 4y ago
Welcome. Plenty of 3 day in the office and even 5 day in the office tech jobs here. Also great cafes you can work from on the remote work days. PT and urban sprawl sucks though, which is why I did the opposite and work remotely 100% now.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I'm from Adelaide. PT is effectively non existent and urban sprawl is worse. Melbourne is like a utopian society to me. I'm quite happy to live in an apartment near the CBD and take the train in. It blows my mind they come every 5 minutes, I'm used to trains coming every 30 minutes or just not running at all half the time.

roncesvalles 4y ago

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work. We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?

kelnos 4y ago
I've made plenty of real, meaningful, long-term friendships at work. But I also have solid friend groups of people I've met outside work. I value all of them, but I'm not going to give up the opportunity to have more flexible working arrangements because some people seem to think they can only make friends at work. > We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work? "Want" and "need" aren't the same thing. We made friends at school because we had no choice. We were required to go to school, so of course the result is that we'd end up making friends there. But even as children, we had other opportunities to make friends: recreational sports leagues, boy/girl scouts, church groups (if that was your family's thing), volunteering, etc. Sure, I'm not saying those sorts of things could replace socialization at school. But in the adult world, we've already been socialized, and we should be able to meet people outside of required, structured activities. It's a shame that some people perhaps didn't learn that as well as others, but I don't think that's a problem best solved by requiring unrelated people to come to an office, when remote work offers so much more flexibility and many more possibilities.
- roncesvalles 4y ago
  This is exactly the attitude that I'm protesting against. I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months. Work or school are really the only places where you can spend that much time with someone. Then again, part of the problem is that people have forgotten what real friendships are like. "Friends" these days are just people you go to restaurants/clubs/concerts/vacations/hiking/camping with so that you don't have to go alone. That's not friendship. That's just people you hang out with. It might cure the itch for a real friendship, but don't confuse it for one.

krippe 4y ago

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

Gigachad 4y ago
Gen Z and A are going to have serious problems. Work and School are biggest sources of friends. The two things they missed out on. I doubt many friends were made in the chat box of an online class.
- kelnos 4y ago
  School goes on until you're 18 or so (and even later if you go to university). Two-ish years of online schooling certainly hurt a bit, but is a small percentage of available childhood socialization time.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    It’s so many small things chipping away at young people’s social lives, car dependant design, remote schooling, remote work, the loss of public spaces and facilities, social media, etc. We can see the trend, young people are constantly getting more lonely and isolated, but we only make changes that make it worse.
- juve1996 4y ago
  Feels like a major overreaction. > I doubt many friends were made in the chat box of an online class. Many people became friends online. We have apps, for meeting people, online, and THEN dating them.
- erenyeager 4y ago
  Actually I’ve seen kids share Roblox usernames through zoom chat boxes and then socialize via zoom calls while they play an online game on their iPads… it is totally possible to socialize, it just starts online now
matrisking 4y ago

kelnos 4y ago

The problem is that the solution is entirely within your grasp, but you've decided that the only way to solve your problem is through in-office socialization. Find co-workers who are local and suggest meeting for lunch or dinner on occasion. Hopefully you've developed some level of rapport through video calls and chats so this won't feel weird to you. Your company/team should be organizing regular get-togethers anyway. If not, they are failing at doing remote work. I hesitate to say "find a new company where they are better at this", but that's better than "require everyone to come into an office to fix your social life". Beyond that, don't center your social life around work. Go to meetups dedicated to topics and activities you're interested in. Just get out and walk! > I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. The maker space closed early. I'm creative, I like working. I just wanted to go to an office. That's all I wanted. I wanted a routine. I wanted to commute and people watch. I wanted to feel like I was living life. That seems to be a problem you've created for yourself, and it's a bit selfish to want to require everyone else to go to an office in order to make your choices work for you. Stop working all day. Set boundaries with your employer. If the maker space really closes by 5pm, negotiate a more flexible work schedule where you get to take a 2-hour break (or something) around lunch or in the afternoon so you can go to the maker space, but then you work later into the evening, or get up earlier in the morning to start work. Also, I'm not sure how any of this would have changed if you were working in an office: the maker space would still close early, and you still would be working all the time and be unable to get there during their open hours. If you want to people-watch, take a 30-minute walk in the morning and in the evening, to replace what a commute would be like. > I'm an optimistic person, yet I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me. This is a bit much, frankly. If you really truly are so inflexible that you can't imagine a good life without an office job, find a new job that has an office you can go to! This isn't rocket science. These jobs exist. Stop advocating making life worse for all of the people whose lives have been markedly improved by the extra opportunities for remote work, just because you can't figure out your own life.

AnEro 4y ago

I've been thinking the same, for me, it's also the work hours were to get ahead I have to do 60 hours on the business side AND homework to get more skills. Even just a part-time job or something to have a mental reset, money would be tight but every angle I see it could be easier to be happier.

wtp1saac 4y ago

Relating to this a lot. I've barely had much in person social interaction since 2020, where college for me ended up remote for the pandemic. Was a relief when classes went back in person a year later, but too little too late for me to build up any meaningful social interactions there, and now I'm in a remote job to the opposite end of the country (and other parts of the world with even more disparate timezones), so I'm pretty much in a similar boat of no meaningful in person interaction. I like technology as an auxiliary means of communicating with people, but having pretty much 95-100% of my interactions occur over texting and calling (people don't even usually bother to turn on their cameras) has been a personal hell, and honestly has soured my opinion of the entire internet. Beyond just work, what few personal relationships I do have at this point are usually also remote, so actually spending real life time with people is this far distant tertiary form of interacting, when it's the natural bloody thing we're evolved to do as a species. Now you have companies like Meta investing in the metaverse "future" where we sit in VR headsets, trade crypto for fake digital goods, have romantic relationships with virtual avatars, and sit in virtual offices so our twenty-poly character models can discuss around a fake whiteboard. I just want to be around people again.

camgunz 4y ago

I have every sympathy for you--social contact is a basic human need. But I see this argument here and there and I feel like I have to point out that this is an argument for you to get social contact, not to make millions of people commute to/from work every day. Getting on the social on-ramp is hard, especially if you live in a culture where overwork is praised and normalized. I had that problem too (I moved from the US to the Netherlands and this was one of the major reasons why). I super suggest taking a step back from work--it's clearly keeping you from doing other things that are critical for your mental health--and then using that time to invest in other parts of your life.

djbusby 4y ago

My solution is to go to the pub once or twice (or thrice) a week

yodsanklai 4y ago

> Guess what? My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office. This may sounds crazy but I actually like to go to the office when I'm team isn't there! The place is lively and there are other people who aren't in my team, and I prefer to interact with them (perhaps it's less stressful as we're less likely to talk about ongoing team work, or they won't require my assistance).

inoop 4y ago

If you're in NYC and want to grab lunch let me know

dnissley 4y ago
I'll chime in here for Seattle -- same offer

tacotacotaco 4y ago

“I was working all day.” Are you getting paid to work 16 hour days? If not then stop giving your employer free work. You’re devaluing your skill. Go for a walk outside. Say hello to a stranger. Volunteer at the library e.g. helping illiterate adults learn to read, or helping English as a second language speakers by chatting with them. Go to a game store. They usually have open board/card/rpg games you can join. Some bars also have this. Look online for activity groups in your area e.g. a photography group that walks around the city together. A gardening group. A sewing group. A painting group. Some of these might be advertised at your local library. Some might even meet there. Can’t find one your interested in? Make your own. Look at public events in your city. Some of these are run by non-profits that would love if you volunteered to assist. Be careful about what you volunteer for though. Since you are looking for human interactions do not offer to help with their website, for example, since that is solitary work. These events need plenty of on-hand help.

lolinder 4y ago

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the preferences of the people with the most influence, and because opinions vary so widely there will be lots of diversity in outcomes. And that's a really good thing. It's unfair that those of us who can't stand being in an office were made to go into the office to satisfy the social needs of other people who aren't getting enough socialization in their personal life. But it's also not right for people like you to feel like you have no choice but to be isolated. What we need is for people to not feel trapped in a job that has the wrong balance of remote and in-person. If you are the only one of your coworkers who feels the way that you do, maybe the answer is to find a company where the majority of employees share your desire for in-person work. I know that sounds overwhelming right now, but once you've made the leap once you won't be stuck in the wrong alignment again.

monksy 4y ago
I agree with your statement about him being the most honest person here. The most I can give him credit for is that you're already out and it keeps you from going back to your house. Everytime I read that "humans are social creatures" it's a dog whistle for "i want to see people miserable and pressured to do it"
- hgsgm 4y ago
  He doesn't want you back in the office. He wants people like him back in the office.
dsugarman 4y ago
Put yourself in the executives shoes for a second, they're not stupid people, they know how large the risk of blowback is and how many employees they might disenfranchise or lose. They're that confident that remote work is a bigger threat to their long-term performance and they don't want to get lapped by the companies with an in-office culture

krabizzwainch 4y ago

I am there 100% too. And yet every time I bring it up somewhere like reddit I get responses like “just deal with it, I’m not coming into the office just because you are lonely.” Chances are that these are not the people that I would miss in an office environment in general. I probably wasn’t having fun office conversations with them. I need my habits and routines, and I just don’t make myself stick to the routines when I stay home. Less of a reason to shower at the same time or at all, less of a reason to take walking breaks during work hours. It has come down to me being able to handle a bullshit job when I like the people I work with and see them often enough to where we are inbetween work friends and real friends. But a bullshit job where my coworkers aren’t even interesting or nice to talk to? I’m just not gonna want to work with them ever again.

abyssin 4y ago

I left the tech sector because of the same issue, although I have a family and friends. I'm poorer and my situation is quite unstable. But I no longer have to endure this depressing loneliness during work hours.

lamontcg 4y ago

> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. Benefit of remote work is generally that its flexible and you can schedule time in the day to get out and do things than otherwise the usual office grind would prevent. Your employer shouldn't care that you're out at noon but working at 7pm instead as long as the work is getting done. Sounds like you also have boundary issues where you're working all the time and killing yourself, quite voluntarily, for your job. You should consider just stopping doing that. You probably won't fall behind. If you have remote work and a rigid schedule like you're constantly oncall and dying because of the work, then find better and more human remote work.

monksy 4y ago

I was a remote worker for an earlier part of my 20s as a consultant. What you have to do is you have to be proactive about your social activities and find a thing that allows you to do that. I ended up starting my own social group off of reddit. That helped a lot and taught me a lot about groups. Couchsurfing was great for the social aspect. Another thing to note: Just because you are around coworkers it doesn't mean you'll relate to them well. Some have a tendancy to stab you in the back.

wetpaws 4y ago

This should be a problem of your therapist, not your coworkers.

wnolens 4y ago

Are you me? Jesus I took a regular job in January 2020 because I was over being a contract developer working at home. No luck now.. I agree fully with you. I'm in my 30s though everything else the same. I would definitely feel oppositely if I had a partner and kids (like my brother) but I don't. People saying it's a "you" problem are missing the big picture. For a lot of people, the workplace is a primary context in their life.

onion2k 4y ago

I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me. There are tons of companies that still have offices. Get a job with one.

gtvwill 4y ago

I feel ya, try being a remote area drillers offsider. Week after week, in the dark on night shift. No radio to even hear another humans voice because there isn't any reception in the middle of nowhere. No one to talk to. Hella wrecks your mental health. Makes you appreciate the jebus out of f2f hands on trades. Stuff where your actually involved with people and the results of your work aren't a constant reminder of how detached from society you truly are.

danaris 4y ago

This is actually a symptom of a much larger problem with our society as it exists today, which is that we've systematically dismantled all our communities and support systems outside of work and the (immediate) family. Humans are social creatures, and for the vast majority of human history, we've existed in communities of various shapes. Evolutionarily, psychologically, and even physiologically, it's not healthy for us to be going to work for 8 hours—with or without people—then retreating to a home with just our immediate families 5 days a week, (nearly) 52 weeks a year. The shift in zoning after WWII to heavily prioritize hard separation between residential and commercial areas (motivated, in no small part, by racism) is a major culprit in the creation of this new lifestyle, and disruption of previous forms of order. (Though I believe the first big shift was probably the Industrial Revolution.) I don't have much of a solution to offer in the short term, because it's not a short-term kind of problem. However, I do know that there's a movement called Intentional Communities[0] that's supposed to be working on counteracting it; perhaps you could look them up and see if there's anything in your area. [0] https://www.ic.org https://www.ic.org

otikik 4y ago

> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day That’s your decision. Very convenient for your employer. Perhaps not so convenient to you, given that you are getting depressed. > My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office. That’s their decision.

shadeslayer 4y ago

I've been in the same place you are now. I completely agree with the need for a healthy routine to be able to keep depression at bay and not having a environment to socialize robs you of key experiences we all need to have in our youths in order to be well adjusted later in life. Having said that, you're in a great place to make a few key changes that might help! I moved to another country and learnt a new language and a whole new culture when I was in the same place as you! Perhaps that's not a option for you, but maybe you could travel to a new city for a week or two! Trial out a few places and see what fits you. It takes a bit of effort and persistence, at the cost of routine, but having a fresh start might be the thing that gets you out of this. Edit: You might want to look up Croissant to go and meet other remote co workers, there's a fair few of us around the world ;)

xylo 4y ago

I have the same feeling of solitary confinement. I now dream of working at Costco or Whole Foods to have some social interaction.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

I have no opinion on whether or not remote is good (I work alone, at home, and I'm fine with it, but I also understand the draw of office life). I would strongly suggest volunteer work, as a way to socialize. Geeks have extremely valuable skills, and can give a great deal, to most volunteer efforts. In my case, I have been involved in a fellowship, for my entire adult life, and it richly satisfies my socialization needs. I also do a great deal of tech volunteer work for it. I wish you luck, but I'm not sure that returning to the office would fix things.

crocowhile 4y ago

> but no time - I was working all day This is your problem. The rest is a red-herring.

eddsh1994 4y ago

I understand this completely, having worked remotely since February 2019. Can't wait to meet people more often.

PureParadigm 4y ago

Your feelings are shared by many others our age. Friends at work are important, especially if you're living alone. I live alone in a city with friends within reach, but only having friends outside of work is not enough social interaction for me. Consider how much social time there is in high school and college. There was barely a moment to be alone. Classes are full of discussion, meals are eaten together, and shooting the shit with siblings or roommates fills in all the other time. If you forego social interaction during work hours, I don't see how the math adds up to get back to the baseline from high school and college. It sounds like you have an office to go to even though your team doesn't come in often. This is the case for me too, but luckily I'm at a big enough company where there are people my age on other teams. At first, barely anyone came in, but someone has to break the deadlock so I kept coming in every day regardless. Fast forward a year and there is a group of 20-somethings that come in every day. I've formed some of the best friendships of my life here. I recommend going into the office every day even if it's going to be empty. It's a good routine anyway to get out of the house. While I don't have any personally, I'd also recommend housemates. A lot of my friends from work have housemates and I feel like it's an easy way to build a large friend group since you can share each other's friends. It especially seems to help those who are new to the city and don't have a friend group yet. Your housemates can also easily become your friends! I really sympathize with your situation. You're simply asking for what used to be normal to return. Don't lose hope - there are so many of us like you and we just need to find each other.

VerminOctopus1 4y ago

Blaming the fact that you don’t have any friends or romantic partners or a “life in this city” on remote working is absolutely absurd. Relying on a corporate office to bring you those things is most likely going to end in disappointment. Get a job that doesn’t demand your entire wakeful life on this earth and find some hobbies you can share with people where you’re not constrained by the weirdness of office politics and culture.

fsociety 4y ago

> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day. This is the problem in my opinion. Not the fact that you were working all day, but generally that our work now bleeds into personal lives or leaves no time for it.

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jraph 4y ago

I tried office work and enjoyed meeting coworkers. Made some friends there. I'm working from home and like it so much though. I somehow live my best life alone during the day for work and see people several times in the week outside work, but I personally think that's a great way to both avoid commute time. I live in a city where I have a lot of friends, and it was always clear to me that remote work would work for me only if I could meet people regularly. I also practice piano, and I am in a choir with a hundred people that allows me to constantly meet people. I need to see people and would not like spending days without seeing anybody. You can't bet only on work for meeting people. It can work by luck, but an ex coworker of mine recently left my ex-company and the city, because he was only seeing coworkers and didn't manage to meet people in the city, they ended up feeling lonely, aka work from the office didn't fix their loneliness. It's also a matter of social skills, and joining groups, and stuff like this if you don't have an established social group yet. I also think remote work is not for everybody, and preferences might evolve during someone's life. I guess there will be office-first companies for people who prefer being at the office, remote-first companies for us preferring remote work, and hybrid ones if they manage to pull if off. That's very hard but somehow my current company is very successful in this, but you will need to have remote-first habits in such an hybrid setting, like using the chat / mail / whatever even between people at the office at the same time for many things. So I have four pieces of advice for you, each one can suffice: - move to a city where you already have friends - make sure it allows you to meet new people too. - join clubs, do stuff outside work. Work is a mean to have a good life, don't spend all of your life at work, that's nonsense, unless it's absolutely what you love and you are happy, but that's not your case - join an office-first or hybrid company. You don't need to stay at a remote company if you don't like it - you can still be at a remote company, but go to a coworking space. Try it out! I have a coworker who does this. You can have a routine, meet the same people everyday and have breaks / eat lunch with them, etc exactly like coworkers, just that you don't work on the same things. Not the same thing as working at the same place with people who you work with but I guess that can be enriching / rewarding too in its own way. Finding a coworking space was my plan B if I figured I didn't like working from home in the end. My company would be willing to pay for it. Hasn't happened yet but I personally think that's a great way to both avoid commute time, see people during the day, address the loneliness of remote work, and not be limited by the choice of whatever companies are near you. Good luck, I hope you will find a solution that works out for you!

quailfarmer 4y ago

Wow, this hits close to home. I just moved a thousand miles from school to a new state. I live near work, which is about 30 miles from the nearest city (no public transit to speak of). If there's any spots for young people to socialize nearby, I haven't been able to find them. My long-term girlfriend has a career near where we went to school, so many weekends I'm traveling there, or she is here. Both of which are great, but neither of which are conducive to making friends in this new place. I'm really excited about the job, and I'm a late sleeper. I tend to work 11am to around 9pm. I've had some roommates, but they've been pretty uninterested. Luckily, work is fully in-person, and it's a very young office. The first few months were rough, but I've finally made friends with people, I had a barbecue, we went skiing, went to see a co-workers band perform. My personal situation could be a lot worse, but it could have also been a lot better. Compared to the last year of my Masters program, the adjustment period was very painful, and I think not having human interaction would have made it worse. -- Though, (and I'm just realizing it now), if the job were remote, I could have just stayed in the part of the country where I had many friends. Sadly, I work with hardware, so that's probably not going to happen.

watwut 4y ago

> Day in, day out. All alone. I don't have a girlfriend, friends, or a life in this city. You expect to find a girlfriend on the job? I don't mean it as a snark. But in office means that work and communiting takes even more of your life. Unless she comes from the job, which is unlikely in male dominated profession, being with team won't get you girlfriend.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
> You expect to find a girlfriend on the job? The parent didn't say this. He probably meant it as in "if I had a girlfriend, not having friends wouldn't be as rough".
aworks 4y ago
I met my wife and all my previous girlfriends at work. Only one was a software engineer but they were all smart...

calsy 4y ago

Why get paid while your socialising with people in a work environment when you can isolate yourself at home and talk to randoms on the street or join clubs at your own expense and time. Friends can be made anywhere BUT work now apparently. Why do kids need to go back to school? They can sit at a desk at home. They can make friends elsewhere and they don't need to go to school for physical activity. They can do that in any club, group meet, sport, hobby whatever. Schools for learning after all, not making friends.

trieste92 4y ago

It isn't just you, but also consider that this kind of situation is somewhat common now and probably won't last > And here I am, again, in the torture of solitary confinement. If you spending time alone is torture, is it torture because of the loneliness or is it torture because you aren't at peace with yourself? I get that connection is needed, but if you're in a situation where it's inconvenient or hard to find you shouldn't be attacking yourself because of this

sys_64738 4y ago

Your priorities are all wrong if you live to work. You need to make a life unconnected to work as you might be fired any day. People I work with are coworkers, nothing more.

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ajb 4y ago

I think this is a transitional phase. If remote work takes over, there will be a rise of co working spaces for mates to work in together. Young people will use them to find friends and partners, and young parents will use them to share babysitting shifts with other young parents. That will actually be better for social life, because people won't need to lose touch when they change jobs. People were stuck at home by the pandemic, not by remote work.

capitanazo77 4y ago

Office friends aren’t necessarily great friends. Great people is found while doing great things

TechnicolorByte 4y ago

Just wanted to say I relate completely. Moved a year before pandemic to a completely new place straight out of school and struggled making friends. COVID ruined what little social circle I had started to form. If you (or anyone else reading this) are in the SF Bay Area in a similar situation and are looking for potential friends, hit me up at my profile email

op00to 4y ago

From those of us with kids, many just want to do our jobs and get a paycheck. Work lets us live, we do not live to work. We are not looking for some third place or a dating situation. Go to a climbing gym or get a dog or something if you want to meet people.

Awelton 4y ago

As a lifetime introvert that doesn't really care for human interaction I have never really thought about this perspective before. I have worked remote for years and commuting all the way to another building just to do the same thing I was already doing at home would feel like a pointless hoop to jump through at this point. I wonder how many people demanding that everyone return to the office are just lonely?

deafpolygon 4y ago

I'm the exact opposite way - I want a remote job but I can't find one. I'd be happiest in an office of my own making with the hours of my own choosing, and I'm very good at creating boundaries between work and life at home. I loath having to sit in a cube, with people that might stop by and break my flow of concentration with small talk (What even is small talk? How's the weather? How about them dodgers? What?) But I don't know anyone who would hire me to do remote work. Nor how to find one reliably. I'm getting depressed at the thought that I might have to go work in a physical box again.

itstooreal 4y ago

Thanks for your very honest comment. At my office we’re hybrid and people oscillate between the home and in-office for the same reasons as you - sometimes it’s just nice to hang out with people, even if you’re working. I would hope you wouldn’t have to abandon your career and maybe a little job hopping is in order. I don’t think the world will go full remote, even if that’s personally the way I enjoy it.

rendaw 4y ago

While my reaction isn't the same as yours, I'm in roughly the same position. You didn't mention it so I wanted to ask, have you tried going to coworking spaces? That seems like a solution for the "let the people who want to work at home work at home, let people who want company have company" issue... I haven't myself yet so I'm curious.

Orzelius 4y ago

I recently moved into a share house and extremely recommend the experience. I think it would help with what you seem to be dealing with. Best of luck!

UntwistedApple 4y ago

I'm in my early twenties and still studying, but working as well, for around 15hours a week. Fully remote. Much worse, the only human interaction I have during this time is a weekly 30min team meeting. It's two days a week for me. Mostly alone, just sitting in my bedroom and working on my own tiny project. I'm lucky because I do have social interaction in the university, but I feel just how much of any job-related motivation this kills. If I would be full time amployed, this would be driving me into a depression as well. I'm sure that you will be able to find some nice people to hang out with and talk to.

jtode 4y ago

Can't really type here but: I feels ya.

softwaredoug 4y ago

From the employers PoV imagine a world where you have an influx of junior employees and interns. They need a higher level of structure and need the social outlet of work. If you're trying to build up this talent, it seems easier to do in the structure of an office. Imagine a junior employee even potentially moving somewhere for a job? Currently, the economy is not aggressively hiring at the junior level. But this could change. What does that world look like when junior employees go into a fully isolated and remote setup? Either we need a structured central place for supporting those employees or society needs to solve these social and economic problems in a completely different way. Remote work is easier for senior employees with families or a more established life. I think many here probably fit into this category. After even 4-5 years of life in an office, you probably lose the need to regularly see employees. But being junior / early on, it's a VERY tough road to be fully remote.

happymellon 4y ago

What is your office environment like? I too would like some in-person time with colleagues, but I also know that with an open plan office it can be so noisy that I know that nothing will get done. Prior to 2019 a well used phrase was "I need to work from home so that I can get stuff done" and we all understood it. A lot of actions have been taken over the years to ensure that we know who the boss is, Taylorism is the cause and the boss gets an office. We have had decades of research showing that open plan offices increase sick days by 30%, and reduce productivity. Unfortunately you are right at this inflection point where those of us who have suffered the worst of it are fed up and want change. The best we can do is work from home. Have you told other members of your team this? I don't need to see my friends every day to know they are my friends, but would once a week or fortnight help, even if it was to pair with one other person?

Mandatum 4y ago

Work for the government, or finance with a strict "no remote" policy.

roland35 4y ago

Maybe try switching to another field in engineering - software development is certainly the most remote friendly discipline. Mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, there are lots of great on-site careers and they are a much better use of your existing skills

burhanrashid52 4y ago

Similar happening to me as well. I thought remote work will bring me freedom of time and place but spending 2 years at home without any interaction with outside people made me a negative and depressed person for a few months. But I somehow found the balance by going to a co-working space, going to the gym and playing any physical sport. PS: I live with 6 people but it still happened to me.

fennecfoxy 4y ago

As someone that has worked in the office and now from home I wouldn't consider making "friends" at the office to be a substitute for making friends outside of work. Check some of the event type apps such as meetup, they usually have quite a few fun things on there with cool people to meet doing all sorts of hobbies. Then again, it is true that tech can be quite lonely and solitary work, so as you mentioned a career shift may be in order.

1290cc 4y ago

You're completely right to feel this way. Reading about your struggles made me reflect on my twenties in tech and what a day to day looked like. Most mornings would start on a tube commuting into central london, getting to see how people dress, was anyone attractive on my route? what music should I listen to on the way? Then getting into the office, I worked with with engineer that was a developer at roscosmos and escaped the soviet union. We would walk the streets of london and discuss what problems we were going to solve that day and have a morning espresso while doing it. The city was always buzzing with traders and office workers. Work was tough but I had a lunch outside to look forward to with my team. If it was thursday or friday most of us would head to a pub for a late boozy lunch or end up at bricklane for a curry and the night just went on and on. Amazing time and when I compare that to the last few years of remote work it cant even come close to the interactions and experiences I gained during that time. My day to day has been wakeup, grab a coffee, walk into my office and start responding to emails. I then try to squeeze in time to walk my dog and then get back to continue more meetings and zoom calls. Once the day ends I'm pretty exhausted and try to get outside to ride my bike or go to the gym. I physically interact with less than 2 people a day. My wife and the barista at the local coffee shop. I completely empathize with how you're feeling!