13 ms·
Tell HN: Windows 10 might have tricked you into using a online account
Has this happened to more people?
I just noticed this, and so this happened to a few friends of mine.
I am familiar with dark patterns, and read carefully and I though I had dodged all Microsoft attempts at trying to register me into their online system, but somehow they got me.
- inetknght 4y agoMicrosoft doing shady shit? Color me surprised. I'm glad I've ditched Microsoft's ecosystem. I use Linux now.
- deafpolygon 4y agoSame here, and I'm in the process of excising Apple, Google. Baby steps in the right direction is all I need to work on.
- taskforcegemini 4y agowell, yes, but they bought Pöttering and afaik he still works on systemd
- inetknght 4y ago> they bought Pöttering and afaik he still works on systemd systemd is a monster that I don't like. Its documentation is obtuse and unwieldy. I even created a website [0] specifically for me to remember specific things about systemd that it doesn't document well. [0]: https://systemd.software/ https://systemd.software/
- more_corn 4y agoDelight your users by tricking them into doing something they don’t want. The whole win10 onboarding experience is an exercise in adversarial computing. Every screen is something they want but you don’t.
- mistermithras 4y agoCan you provide details of what you found and how?
- xchip 4y agoI noticed in the accounts control panel that my local account became an online one. As I said, I pay a lot of attention into not falling into Microsoft's dark patterns, but somehow I did and my local account became an online one. I am wondering if this has happened to others too.
- svillar 4y agoWhat do you mean? How is this a problem? I think you can still use Windows without having an online account. But this pattern is similar to Apple having your logged on to your Apple/iCloud account when using your devices.
- xchip 4y agoIt is a problem to get registered into some organization using dark patterns. Android is straight forward and doesn't insist every single time into drafting you with tricky dialogs.
- ailef 4y agoI think I know what you are referring to. When setting up my new laptop Windows was asking me to sign in with an account. This step could apparently be skipped (a friend told me later) but I didn't notice at the time. I just formatted everything and installed Linux.
- xchip 4y agoyeah, I thought I had dodged that trap every single time, but somehow I still fell into it.
- reiichiroh 4y agoYou have to be disconnected from wifi and Ethernet to be offered the option of a local account. This was removed in 11.
- tmtvl 4y agoNot entirely, you can open a terminal and input a command to bypass it. It is kind of ironic, though, considering "open a terminal and input a command" is usually considered to be a take-that against GNU/Linux.
- 2devnull 4y agoGood to know. What is the command? And what’s the shortcut to get a terminal?
- xenophonf 4y agoPer https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/13/how-to-bypass-the-microsoft-account-requirement-during-windows-setup/ https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/13/how-to-bypass-the-microsof..., you can type Shift-F10 to break into a command prompt during OOBE and run this command: OOBE\BYPASSNRO. Or you can try logging in with a banned email address like no@thankyou.com.
- vbezhenar 4y agoSimpler option is to enter a@a.com and any password. It'll error and then let you create local account.
- 2devnull 4y agoIt’s not even possible in windows 11. You can leave Microsoft behind, or accept it and move on. I think apple does this too. You have options, but they don’t include Microsoft or apple. I think chromeos, for now, lets you opt out. I could be wrong about that.
- aeadio 4y agoFor some reason, “I think Apple does this too” always comes up in the discussions about Microsoft forcing online accounts within Windows. MacOS doesn’t do this. Accounts are machine local. iCloud integration is an optional layer on top. Always has been. Nothing has changed. Maybe give the OS a try before assuming Apple is following all the same antipatterns just because they also happen to fall into the category of “big tech”.
- dreamcompiler 4y agoIt is possible to set up MacOS without an iCloud account, but they do try hard to get you to sign in. You have to be diligent about looking for buttons like "Skip," "Not now," and "I'll do it later." Fortunately those options still exist, but the pressure to sign in has been increasing over the last several versions of MacOS.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoEm... No. Have you used a Mac? They only ask you once during setup, and have only one popup asking if you are sure.
- vetinari 4y agoNot true. Right now, I have MacOS Ventura nagging me to update my iCloud password, for the account "(null)". Notifications, System Settings badge, System Setting menu item drawing attention to "update available", all the enchilada. "defaults delete com.apple.systempreferences AttentionPrefBundleIDs" doesn't work anymore. Bug? Might be. But it happens to achieve the same kind of nagging that Microsoft is famous for; it passes the duck test.
- jrockway 4y agoThis definitely happened to me a while ago. I'm not that upset about it, except that I spent some time changing all my local accounts from "jon" to "jrockway", and signing in with my email address made my local account "jon". Now when I ssh places, I have to supply -l or properly add an entry to ~/.ssh/config because this is the only account I have that's not named "jrockway". All in all, this reduces the enjoyment in my life by 0.0000000000000001% but I'm not losing too much sleep over it. (My favorite Windows 10 update was the one where you installed it, and instead of getting your desktop on reboot, there was this weird slideshow that said "HELLO" "ALL YOUR FILES ARE EXACTLY WHERE YOU LEFT THEM". I thought it was malware, but that's apparently something a large team of experts at Microsoft thought would be fun for their users. Maybe they were really excited about some filesystem bug that they fixed? I'll never understand.)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- windowsismid123 4y agoDid it switch you magically or something? I actually don't mind the microsoft account integration but I also have a name issue. Microsoft will name my account the equivilent "jons" instead of "jsmith" but all my ssh logins are the latter. I just make an offline account first and then change my account to a microsoft one in user settings and it seems to keep the first name.
- jrockway 4y agoI think I consented in some sense; a condition to upgrade Windows 8 retail to Windows 10 or something like that. It is one of those things like "I'm going to close my eyes and punch the air wildly, if you get hit it's your fault". It was my fault, but kind of rigged against me if that makes any sense. Like I said, though, I'm not that mad about it.
- toast0 4y agoYou have to be really vigilant to not end up with a microsoft account instead of a local account. Especially if you work with anything microsoft store or minecraft.
- fuzzy2 4y agoThe only "trick" I'm aware of is when signing into accounts in certain (Microsoft) applications. You will get a prompt where you need to select to only sign into this specific app. Other patterns pushing you to use a Microsoft account are not dark at all. They're everywhere though!
- techload 4y agoThis will happen when you sign in to any Microsoft product, such as Office, Teams or Onedrive. After you input email and password, there is a window dialog with a big button to use that credential to manage the device, i.e., your computer, converting your local into an online account. And there is an option, with small text, to "use only in Microsoft applications", or words to that effect. This is easy to get caught, as everybody won't read dialog windows and rapidly click on whatever big button.
- pndy 4y agoIn similar way instagram shortly after being purchased by facebook tricked me into login with fb account - the now "old" login option was placed at the bottom of window and it was done in small font that could be seen as copyright footer for a distracted eye.
- david_allison 4y agoThis also used to corrupt an environment variable until reboot (possibly $USERNAME). Was really frustrating to debug that one
- alar44 4y ago[flagged]
- ineptech 4y agoIt's not about making me safer, it's about keeping offline OSes as an option. The ability to buy a general purpose computer and do arbitrary things with it is something we take for granted, but will never get back once we lose it.
- voidfunc 4y agoUse Linux if you want control. I use Windows for gaming, but I fully accept that I'm basically renting it as a service from Microsoft at this point even if it's a one time upfront payment to use.
- genewitch 4y agois there any guarantee that if i annoy microsoft on github or xbox gaming that microsoft will not disable my windows account tied to those email addresses? threat surfaces go beyond ephemeral and tracking data.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y agoMake a new account just for Windows
- sirsinsalot 4y agoYou didn't buy in, you were shaken down. There's a difference. Making life so needlessly friction laden so the alternative seems _SO_ frictionless is basically blackmail. Nope.
- karaterobot 4y agoWindows 10 definitely tricked me into creating a Microsoft account, and I didn't realize I'd been tricked until later. Felt pretty sleazy. Windows 11 being even more of that kind of garbage, and the Steam Deck being a good enough gaming platform, means I've probably built my last Windows PC.
- virgulino 4y ago"Switch your Windows 10 device to a local account" support article: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switch-your-windows-10-device-to-a-local-account-eb7e78a9-88ee-9bc3-8f06-831b56e339fd https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switch-your-wind...
- bitL 4y agoIt happened to me when I logged into XBOX for Forza 5 - voila, Windows 10 suddenly had that account registered as well!
- trwired 4y agoYes, this happened to me when I was forced to reinstall Windows due to a stubborn booting issue. I've been growing uncomfortable with the idea of having an adversarial relationship with such an essential piece of software as an OS for a while already and this prompted me to try out Linux as my daily driver. Been pretty satisfied with the results and Linux is where I do most of my computing these days.
- voidfunc 4y agoWindows 11 latest installer doesn't even present the option to use a local account. However, the mechanism to bypass this is to enter in a fake Microsoft Login ID and then wait for it to fail, then select something like "Other Options" at the dialog that comes up and then there's an option to use a local account. I think you can also install without internet and you'll get the local account option too, but I have not tried it yet. Super annoying. I ran into this last week while reinstalling Windows on a dead NVMe drive.
- mjevans 4y agoDid they take away the ability to create a local account if you setup without Internet access?
- Raymonf 4y agoYes, unless you run OOBE\BypassNRO.cmd from cmd to bypass the network connection step, since there's no "skip" button anymore. Even this is somewhat broken. If you run this after connecting to the Internet then it doesn't do anything and still forces you to use a Microsoft account (unless you somehow get it to throw you back to that page).
- Nomentatus 4y agoIndeed. Took me a while to find route around. These issues are forcing me off Microsoft products in general. What a pain, and a betrayal of long-time customers. Interfering with peeps going offline is interfering with security.
- jcpham2 4y agoIt’s pretty damn difficult to setup a new Windows machine without the online account. Several “ domain join instead” dark patterns
- qwerty456127 4y agoIt actually tricks almost everyone succesfully. Every "non-techie" person I have met (and I have met many different people) uses an online account to sign in to their Windows 10 computer. Every time I configure a fresh Windows 10 system I make sure the computer is not connected to the Internet so it would let me use an offline account.
- api 4y agoMS has been driving hard to get everyone into cloud accounts for years now. I assume it’s so they can track, data mine, and do other user hostile things.
- anonymousiam 4y agoI recently set up (for someone else) a NUC that came with Windows 11. During setup, it first prompts to set up networking. I dutifully entered the WiFi credentials and was subsequently FORCED to create a Microsoft account in order to continue. Lesson learned: Never put a new Windows box onto a network until after it is set up.
- untech 4y agoI wasn’t able to purchase Windows 10 license without switching to an online account.
- NayamAmarshe 4y agoOne of the reasons why I stopped using the dumpster fire that is Windows and moved to ZorinOS. I'm never going back.
- jchw 4y agoYep. Got bit by this once signing into Office 365. I noticed because my desktop background changed to something that I apparently had on another machine where I accidentally got online synced. It's crazy that this ever was considered...
- sedivy94 4y agoDig through the local group policies for mentions of “Microsoft account” or “Microsoft sign-in”. There should be some policies for Microsoft Office apps, the Settings app, as well as a security setting that block it from different angles.
- d_tr 4y agoI have a pro license and during the installation of Windows 11, it was not happy with local accounts. I do not remember exact details, but at some point there was a prompt to log in or create an MS account, and I needed to go back a step for the local account option to appear. I think Windows 10 was similar but it has been a long time since my last installation.
- tinus_hn 4y agoBe careful, because if your version of Windows supports bitlocker Windows will turn it on and store the spare key in the online account.
- petodo 4y agoNo, I simply don't sign into anything outside browser on desktop and I don't use Microsoft browser.
- popcalc 4y agoLeaving this here: https://rentry.org/ltsc https://rentry.org/ltsc Running IoT LTSC 10 as we speak.
- closetometal 4y agoTo anyone looking for this, you have this option to remove all Microsoft spyware crap while creating bootable usb with Rufus. Now a days Linux got so good, I just boot into windows for playing games. What would be the law if it’s a person and not the most profitable company doing this to a person!
- avinassh 4y ago> To anyone looking for this, you have this option to remove all Microsoft spyware crap while creating bootable usb with Rufus. Rufus just burns the image to usb, where is this option to remove the bloatware
- closetometal 4y agoCheck the latest version. You’ll get options to remove (auto disable) all of “privacy toggles” during setup and to auto add local account same as host system (and remove data and online account restrictions) once you click to start flash
- gadders 4y agoHappened to me recently when I had to install Teams on my PC. Then they told me all my files were owned by the wrong user.
- ronen1n 4y agoCan you dodge Apple account on Mac?