30 ms·

We need a lot more electricians

242 points by orangebanana1 4y ago

EricE 4y ago
You mean decades of telling people if you go into the trades that you're a dumb ass has repercussions? Who could see that coming? https://www.mikeroweworks.org https://www.mikeroweworks.org
PaulHoule 4y ago
We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the trades, electricity is the one that I know enough about to supervise somebody. (e.g. I am baffled by plumbing)
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory if greater amperage isn't available (US centric advice). Think of this as the residential version of "dig once" [1]. EDIT: Yes, you may not need 400A immediately, but if you're doing an upgrade, the cost delta between the conductors for 200A vs 400A is not substantial except for very long runs. Also, some utilities will cover the cost of a service upgrade to the meter; from the meter onward into the home is your cost. Balance cost with future needs, future labor costs, etc. Very similar to dropping a whole bunch of cheap fiber in a trench just in case you need it in the future. I usually recommend people combine this work with a solar PV install, to capture the 30% federal tax credit towards the work (if you can justify the upgrade as necessary, which you can if your current service is less than 200A), as it has no limit on the amount you can capture as part of the install (versus the previous tax credit for electrical upgrade costs for installing an EV charging station). [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/policy_brief_dig_once.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/policy_brief_dig_once.p...
  - UI_at_80x24 4y ago
    This is double-great advice. It's completely obvious once mentioned but not something that may have occurred of the top of ones head. Thank-you for posting.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      It's strange because 400a service will probably NOT ever be needed, but the cost difference from 100-200 and 100-400 is basically nothing. You can also get a separate meter installed instead or alongside, this can be useful it the property could be dual purpose (think: duplex, house + machine shop, etc). This can increase costs because of double baseline but it can also reduce costs because of double "low tier" - depends on the market.
  - signaturefish 4y ago
    I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certainly not common).
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the numbers are weird there too. Wrong all around!
      - throwawayacc3 4y ago
        Voltage to residential main electrical service panels in the United States is 240V. Major appliances run on 240V circuits. So when you install a 400A panel in the US, it's 400A*240V which is 96,000W.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is becoming a thing of the past - at least in places with strict certification requirements.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications. Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally... If you choose this route, understand that: * The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of any device/cable/connector downstream of it, unless that device has its own fuse), or badly made joints. Do joints properly with wago blocks or by tightening screw terminals very tight. * The 'obvious' risk from electrics of electrocution is reduced to almost zero by installing a whole-house RCD/GFCI device. I wouldn't want to live in a house without one. And turn the power off before doing electrical work.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      But not too tight, or the strands may break.
      - londons_explore 4y ago
        I have seen lots of near-fires/melted things from under-tightening, but I have never seen a single near-fire from overtightening. I suspect it's a myth - I don't think you could overtighten any connector sufficiently to make it be a fire risk without the screw shearing first. I'd be interested to see tests demonstrating otherwise though. Obviously if you are doing it to the standards, you crimp the wire first and use a torque screwdriver to tighten to the exact correct torque.
- elicash 4y ago
  There's a startup that is adding a battery to induction appliances, in part so that you can run off of a standard outlet: https://www.channingcopper.com https://www.channingcopper.com It's only in pre-orders, however. Edit: Looks like first round of pre-orders were limited to Bay Area and now there's a wait list for next round.
- Siecje 4y ago
  Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".
  - mankyd 4y ago
    I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food. With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food. With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or never get hot in the first place), making it safer.
    - MarioMan 4y ago
      >The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. Just to note, you don’t need special pans to use an inductive stove. Any magnetic cookware will do, which includes cast iron and most stainless steel. As an intuitive rule of thumb, if a magnet will stick to the bottom, then it’s compatible.
    - mnw21cam 4y ago
      The pan doesn't have a heating coil in it - it's just a solid slab of metal. However, that acts like a single turn of wire in a "coil" shorted out.
    - greedo 4y ago
      Induction compatible cookware doesn't have a heating coil. They just need ferrous metal in them. They can be clad in aluminum, with a ferrous core etc. A cast iron pan works fine, and most stainless steel cookware is fine. It's just the cheap teflon stuff that's out of luck.
      - 4y ago
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Electric water heaters don’t need to draw a ton of amps. 4500 Watt, 240V 50 gallon ones are common, which is under 20 amps. Induction stoves peak at twice that.
- danans 4y ago
  > my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop. > and an electric water heater. Make sure it's a heat pump water heater if efficiency and operating cost matter to you.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    > She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop. This, and also easier cleanability than either of them (basically it doesn't need more cleaning than the rest of your kitchen counter) and much safer (won't heat anything non-metallic that you leave on top, won't heat the surface of the stovetop itself except indirectly via heat transmission from the pots/pans, and will automatically turn off if it doesn't detect a metallic item). I have one and there's no way in hell I'd go back to an ordinary electric range as long as I can afford not to.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      I've been looking at them, but almost all have unusable touch controls. (My background is human machine interaction - I've never seen an acceptable stove, but induction stoves are all really bad). Since I've have to replace all my cookware as well I'm not in any hurry.
      - danans 4y ago
        Functionally, the touch controls make the whole thing much easier to clean, but I agree they are harder to use. As with the touchscreens in cars, I'm sure it's also about marketing a sleeker product and lowering the bill of materials and labor - hence cost of manufacturing. Just wait a little longer and a manufacturer will start offering physical dials on an induction stove as a high-end feature, but also realize that it will still be control by wire like a computer input device, not a mechanically coupled control like a (dumb) dimmer switch - since it would be ultimately controlling the inductor in the stovetop via software.
    - 4y ago
- bombcar 4y ago
  It's interesting that I've found the people who are comfortable with plumbing are very wary of electrical, and vice-versa. Look for a "smart heat pump" water heater and you can probably get away without actually upgrading service unless you want to - 100 amp service can support a stove and water heater especially if the water heater is "smart" enough to not run when the stove is running. You can also find a friendly electrician to "check off" on your wiring after you do most of the grunt work, this works well for areas that require permits even for homeowner-done work.
  - anon3846472 4y ago
    In Taiwan, electricians and plumbers are the same occupation. When you're getting your certifications, you have to get both. You can specialize in one, but you have to know plumbing and electrical work to pass.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      I was thinking more on the DIY side; I'm entirely comfortable with electrical, but I worry I wouldn't "do" plumbing right (soldering copper, mainly; I have no issue with PEX); a friend of mine is the opposite.
- latexr 4y ago
  > Of all the trades, electricity is the one that I know enough about to supervise somebody. (e.g. I am baffled by plumbing) Curiously, we’re in opposite situations. I have a (very) basic understanding of electricity, just enough to change power outlets and the like. But in general I’m baffled by it because it’s a bunch of dangerous stuff I can’t see with values I don’t fully understand¹. Plumbing, on the other hand, is water inside tubes controlled mechanically. Taking things apart reveals the simplicity of the system. After doing a fix I can feel confident in the safety and reliability of the work even before opening on the main valve again². ¹ If anyone has recommendations on a trustworthy course / YouTube playlist which teaches enough basics to understand electrical wiring in residential homes, I’m interested. ² I’m not doing super complex jobs, but in my own home it’s been years since I’ve needed to call a plumber.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    I received a PhD in physics so I got a solid dose of electricity and electronics. I did help teach an autotutorial class in physics for premeds which got me to do a little more with fluid mechanics than most people but the trouble I have with plumbing is finding documentation for the details. For instance when it comes to sealing PVC pipes I have seen instructions that tell you to "refer to the documentation from the pipe manufacturer" which is not at all straightforward for pipes that have been there 20+ years.
  - _whiteCaps_ 4y ago
    Not a course, but this channel has a ton of interesting content on US residential wiring: https://www.youtube.com/c/technologyconnections https://www.youtube.com/c/technologyconnections
mfer 4y ago
Electricians are a great example of skilled trades that are in demand.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Also impossible to outsource overseas.
  - user-extended 4y ago
    You can import more.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Check with the IBEW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brotherhood_of_Electrical_Workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brotherhood_of_E...
  - photonbeam 4y ago
    Are there visas available for those in blue collar trades like this? I’m wondering if they’re also protected from immigration related market forces on wages
    - floren 4y ago
      Electrical wiring practices differ from country to country. Anyone coming in on a visa would need some retraining if only to learn the local regulations. You can sling Javascript the same way in Chennai or in Cleveland, but I wouldn't want a UK electrician wiring my house in California.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - pjc50 4y ago
      Probably not, but the main issue would be that overseas certifications aren't valid. I'm sure it would be quicker to recertify / learn the local regulations than to start from scratch, but it's not free.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are supposed to be cables sheathed in green. The electrician also had to disconnect all of the wires from the circuit breaker in order to replace a plastic joint and replace it with a galvanized one. I understand that these regulations exist in the name of safety, just be aware that any electrical updates to your home will likely involve a lot more work than you initially think. Depending on what you are getting done, the inspector may need to recheck your entire home. And, you're probably going to scoff at a good number of the required changes. Context Edit: I'm located in Texas, and I ultimately had to have the electrical panel replaced entirely because there was a safety recall associated with it. Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead. When I first saw the estimate I made sure to shop around and to get multiple quotes in order to make sure I wasn't being taken advantage of. Thankfully, there were a few things I was able to remain grandfathered in for. Update: I now know that "fuse box" is not a synonym for "circuit breaker".
- pyb 4y ago
  In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    I don't think it's unreasonable to update to code when other changes are made.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.
powera 4y ago
The critical path of "install more solar panels" is not at all gated by the cost of solar panels these days. It is the electrical work (both within in the home, and "interconnect") that is the expensive bottleneck. (( also batteries are also a bottleneck. but a different one. ))
- photonbeam 4y ago
  Panels are getting cheap enough that its almost worth just laying them on the ground in the yard than paying to put them on the roof
  - powera 4y ago
    I wouldn't put panels where they are easily gnawed upon by rats and mice.
yboris 4y ago
Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for applying Noalox, everything is just routine - strip a bit of the wire, screw it into circuit breaker, pop it in. Make sure the panel is grounded to outside (as before), and it's done. Feels like a very easy task for most people - provided that the old wiring didn't have errors. Happy to hear feedback / thoughts on this.
- lisper 4y ago
  Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.
  - cschneid 4y ago
    The panel and the breakers in it are different things. If you get the right size breakers, that's fine, and even a good idea (breakers go bad over time from what I know. Maybe due to number of trips?). Putting in a new panel can get you more space, or just update to a currently maintained standard for breakers so you can find and put new ones in.
  - mediaman 4y ago
    He said he wasn't upgrading amperage, so wire size requirements for existing breakers should not change. It sounds like he was adding circuits which means he's running wires for those new circuits anyway.
  - jsmith45 4y ago
    That's not a consideration here. They were just replacing a smaller 100A panel with a larger one. with more circuit spots. That is always allowed. As long as you you use a panel that accepts the same type of breakers, you can also re-use the existing breakers, unless code require upgrading to AFCI breakers. Otherwise you swap them for new breakers of the same rating. (Assuming the US: There are some inspectors who would ok a panel swap that reused the existing breakers without requiring upgrades, but technically upgrading is supposed to be required, unless your state amended out the AFCI requirements in the state version of the code). Note: technically many breakers can fit in competitor panels, but they are not legal. They were not designed nor tested to trip at proper ratings in those panels, and using them violate the labeling of the panel. Now obviously the reason for upgrading the panel is to add more circuits, and it is possible that these additional circuits if added would need more power than the 100A service can provide. To technically comply with code, you need to follow the rules to calculate the expected loading of existing circuits plus planned new circuits.
mfer 4y ago
The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot more. 3) Dealing with problems in regions. Like power outages in areas that deal with lots of snow and freezing. How do people have heat to survive? How do things work so that we don't have destruction to homes from frozen pipes? Stuff like that.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  I don't get what frozen pipes has to do with electrifying the home?
  - mfer 4y ago
    There is a push to move to electric heat generation in homes in some areas. If electricity goes out you loose heat. In many areas you can have weeks (even months) where the temperature is below freezing. Loose heat to your home and your pipes can freeze. When this happens they burst causing damage to the home.
    - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
      Pipes don't freeze immediately. A semi-decently insulated house will loose less than 10 degrees per day, so it would take a few days before pipes start freezing.
      - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
        Cool! Most of the houses in areas of the US where pipes freeze are quite old, many have effectively no insulation (the one I currently rent has no insulation at all). If heat goes out, it'll reach outside temperature within a day. People here in Buffalo recently died because a blizzard took out electricity, homes lost heat, and they froze (mostly when they tried to get to the "warming shelter" locations and were trapped, but trapped in a car without heat vs trapped in a house without heat is freezing all the same).
user-extended 4y ago
*without raising salaries.
- supertrope 4y ago
  Where there's a will there a way. In business will is proportional to remuneration. Skilled labor is not cheap and it's even more expensive in high cost of living areas. Commercial jobs pay more than residential. The impact of COVID-19 is driving up labor rates.
api 4y ago
Maybe we can retrain the vast number of auto mechanics and gas station people we will no longer need?
- ilyt 4y ago
  EVs still need service, just different kind. Sure, some will be fired but in most cases it will be just getting new skillset required for EVs
  - api 4y ago
    They overall need a lot less service than gas cars. No oil changes, far fewer moving parts, simple or no transmission, etc.
rufusroflpunch 4y ago
We're not going to electrify everything.
mmmBacon 4y ago
I think it’s more than just electricians that we need. We need additional training for electricians so they understand how some of the newer technologies work. I bought a high end LED light fixture that had a more modern dimmer that ensures the LEDs won’t flicker when dimmed. The dimmer wiring was completely different but well defined and standardized. I had a hard time finding an electrician that understood how to wire the fixture. I drew a schematic for them and I found out of 5 electricians only 1 could read the schematic.
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  I think the solution here is standardization - if you don't force a company to abide by some standard then they'll all create their own. We have the same issue with software - many programmers describe their job as creating the interface for different existing things. I think the issue here is that this isn't really the job of an electrician - they make sure the wiring in your house is safe but it's someone else's job to make sure their device complies with those expectations and is easy to plug-and-play with. Otherwise they'd need to train technicians to do the installation and most people don't want that
encoderer 4y ago
It sounds like it was just a COVID-related delay during the height of the pandemic. I also own a home in Berkeley and had no trouble getting 2 quotes for a panel replacement, and work started less than a week after the first phone call. It cost $12k for the new 200 amp panel and 4 new outlets. Now, landscape contractors, that’s been a harder nut to crack.
- sbradford26 4y ago
  That is pretty brutal on the cost. We live north of Boston is a decently high cost of living area but nowhere near California. I got the our main panel upgraded from 100 amp to 200 amp, the mast and meter socket replaced, and 4 new outlets in the basement for $2400 in 2021.
  - encoderer 4y ago
    Wow! Yeah, skilled trades are not cheap in the sf area. Also, restaurants and houses. Groceries used to be far more expensive than the rest of the country but my recent visits to family in the Midwest have me thinking they have almost caught up on that one.
    - sbradford26 4y ago
      I also grew up in the Midwest and was just visiting home over Christmas. Groceries and other commodities seem to be similar prices, but everything else felt so cheap.
frankus 4y ago
I'm curious if there is some productivity-improving tech for electricians waiting to be invented. The following will be super North-America-centric, but: Right now you have to fasten a box to the wall structure, cut the wire so that about 8" can make its way into the box, strip the outer insulation and insert it into the box, strip at least some of the individual conductors, and then splice (by twisting and using wire nuts, or less commonly using a press-fit dingus) the ones that need to be spliced. You then repeat that for every outlet (which in electrician-speak includes lamps and such) on the circuit. Then repeat that for every circuit. You are now ready for your "rough" electrical inspection (the one before the in-wall wiring is covered). Then before the final inspection you have to individually connect each conductor to (usually) a screw on the actual device before cramming^H^H^H^H^H^H carefully folding the wire back into the box and screwing the device in place, followed by screwing the cover in place. Repeat for every outlet in the unit and you are ready for your final inspection. What I'm picturing is a special box that can insulation-displacement-crimp right onto the wire (probably with some giant pliers. On the inside it has some sockets that the eventual device plugs straight into, possibly with a sort of optional middleware layer that can reconfigure the connections for less common hookups. So you crimp all the boxes to the wire and fasten them to the wall structure and you're ready for the rough inspection. Then after the walls are covered you plug in the devices directly for all of the common configurations (e.g. just a receptacle in a string of receptacles) and fiddle with some kind of middle layer for the oddball configurations (e.g. a duplex receptacle where one of them is switched). As an alternative to the "middleware" maybe there are a collection of different boxes that are pre-configured for the circuit arrangement in question (not unlike plumbing components are today).
- keltor 4y ago
  There have been attempts to use modular electrical systems, but consumers want choice and flexibility and governments at least in the US want those inspection $$$$s.
- frankus 4y ago
  Or even something as simple as studs that come pre-drilled at outlet and switch height (they already come pre-cut to slightly less than 8 feet to be the right height when installed between top and bottom plates).
mwattsun 4y ago
I was an electrician in the US Navy but couldn't get an electricians job out of the Navy without starting over. We could help this shortage if we did more to qualify military electricians as civilian electricians when they leave the military.
- linuxftw 4y ago
  There is literally a program for this: https://usmap.osd.mil/navyRatings.htm https://usmap.osd.mil/navyRatings.htm
  - mwattsun 4y ago
    I'm glad to hear this! This didn't exist when I got out, but there was talk about it. Makes too much sense not to do.
commandlinefan 4y ago
I thought I wanted to be an electrician growing up in the 80's, but my parents steered me away from it into the then-booming programming field. It does seem like programmers are doing a lot better than electricians these days.
- prottog 4y ago
  If you're a programmer who owns a home, there's a lot of electrician stuff you can do around the house. ;-)
- mikeg8 4y ago
  Financially, yes. Physically? I’d bet good money most electricians are in much better physical shape. Pulling wire, climbing ladders, using hand tools… it’s more physically demanding than people think. (My cousin is a journeyman electrician and I helped him wire the new house I built).
  - anon23anon 4y ago
    well no duh that's why I go to the gym every morning. Looked at the average salary these peeps are making. Most ppl on here are making double plus some in my area as developers.
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Those average salaries aren't very representative. Especially in major cities. We'll see how long those inflated developer salaries last as the layoffs pick up and AI replaces a lot of functions.
  - quenix 4y ago
    We have gyms for this :)
jadbox 4y ago
There's a pricing factor to go all electric. Natural gas is still far cheaper for heating than using electric heaters.
- igor47 4y ago
  Usually true for resistance electric heating, but much less often true for heat pumps.
recycledmatt 4y ago
Copper too!
miguelazo 4y ago
Thank you for sharing this. Our local utility has a great scholarship/training program for underserved populations to become lineworkers. I'll share this with them in the hopes that they vastly expand it.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  Downvoted for this-- amazing!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
5544ffee 4y ago
I considered beginning an electrician apprenticeship because I just can't sit in a cubicle 40 hours a week anymore. I'm still young enough that the physical aspects aren't an issue, but the overall working conditions, pay and benefits sound terrible. I think I'd rather just learn to repair electronics.
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  same. if i could find something that's like 50/50 or some other ratio with a similarly scaled pay i think i could make the jump
  - TheCapn 4y ago
    Industrial Controls / Instrumentation Tech Biggest downside is the field environments you can find yourself in. Depending on your industry you can be in some horribly smelly/disgusting facilities or dangling off catwalk way above ground trying to adjust calibration on some silly sensor. There's good ones though too. I'm a Software Eng in the industry so I don't ever really have much for field duty, but I work with several coworkers who are able to get their hands dirty when we're doing a site install: wiring panels, tracing faults, installing/adjusting sensors. But talking about pay scale is a bit iffy based on where you're at now. I don't make FAANG wages doing what I do, but I do make somewhere in the 80th+ percentile for my geographical location (Saskatchewan) so its all relative
    - LesZedCB 4y ago
      thanks, this is great info! i will look into this deeper
  - hooper_ 4y ago
    I sort of went the other way. I started out as an Electrician, and over ~20 years have moved into Data Science (with many steps along the way). I can't speak for the US, but for Australia, there are many hybrid roles. A few examples of systems include: * Home Automation * Industrial Systems (designing & programing factory control systems) * Building Systems (designing and programing large building HAVC/Access Control systems) My experiance has been that people who understand and design both physical and software systems can find well paying work. That said, the career path often convoluted and personal relationships with the right people are critical.
zitterbewegung 4y ago
If we have near 2 percent unemployment it almost begs the question that do we need more people to seek employment ? And I don’t mean large layoffs or pushing people to go into trades school or disregarding going to college. It seems like all of these articles are saying we need more X people doing Y but doesn’t look at the whole picture that either people don’t want to do it because of risk but instead just are doing another job.
ghostly_s 4y ago
Really buried the lede in the last paragraph imo: > According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for an electrician in the U.S. is about $63,000 compared with an average of $58,000 for all occupations. They go on to point out it's higher in the Bay, and there's a wide range with many making more, but that's the mean so that means many are also making less. As explained earlier in the piece those high-paying union jobs are not the ones where this new residential retrofit demand is being generated. $5,000 above the average wage is a joke for a regulated, skilled trade. This will have to change.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  We need them but not enough to pay them. The same for 1001 other jobs...
- twblalock 4y ago
  Even in the Bay Area, the pay is not all that great compared to other trades and other professions. The adoption of EVs, which are very common around here, has been very good for the owners of the companies that install them -- but the workers get paid the same hourly whether they are installing EV chargers or boring old normal stuff.
- claudiulodro 4y ago
  It's complicated and depends on the state. AFAIK California doesn't require an electrician license to be an electrician, so salaries are actually not that great compared to other parts of the country (Bay Area possibly excluded). Oregon does require a license, and there is a wide range of salary depending on which part of the State you're in, but at the lowest a journeyman (comparable to junior dev fresh out of college) will be making ~$60,000/yr in the lower-cost parts of the state. In the Portland area, you'd be making more than $60k even as an electrician apprentice. Anecdotally, my dad is an electrician and makes roughly what I made as a senior developer except he's way more in-demand and can make a decent living in any city in Oregon (or Maine because they have a cross-licensing scheme with Oregon). I live a couple houses down from an electrician in a LCOL part of the state, and his house is nicer and larger than mine! Reference: https://www.oregon.gov/boli/apprenticeship/pages/trade-details.aspx?trade=Inside+Electrician https://www.oregon.gov/boli/apprenticeship/pages/trade-detai... I would have gone into the field, but the waitlist for apprenticeships was hundreds of people long during the Great Recession, and it's going to be difficult to start a new career at the bottom for me at this point.
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onewheeltom 4y ago
I thought this was about needing more electricians….
bloomingeek 4y ago
My 2 cents: My home has a buried power cable from the late 60's. It's size can only handle up to 100 amps, my original main breaker was only 75 amp, we upgraded.(In my state all new houses have to have at least a 200 amp main.) The electrical trade is very rewarding, but very dangerous. You typically have to rely on co-workers to be responsible and safe, if they are distracted, life changing and/or ending results can occur. Before considering an electrical career, attend an arc-flash class to get an idea about what your are signing up for. If you are a detail person, it's a great trade. If you like working in all sorts of environments both in and outdoors, it's a great trade. It will take a long term toll on your body because of the mechanics of the jobs.
morphle 4y ago
Saul Griffith's books and lecture all predict the more than 25.000 electricians that are needed in the US and 40.000 electricians the EU needs in the next 10 years to install the transition to 100% electrical for all homes and business. That is how we going to solve the climate crises. https://www.rewiringamerica.org https://www.rewiringamerica.org https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saul+griffith&sp=CAI%253D https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saul+griffith&s...
mike50 4y ago
Barring Chicago style tactics. I doubt it wagos, pvc conduit, armor clad instead of EMT and preterminated outlets already save so much time. The article leads with a house that needed updated electric in the 1990s most likely and as is typical in high priced markets updates were deferred due to the cost of living. Even given most peoples illiteracy with regard to electricity people to get annoyed with not enough outlets, wanting an outdoor light or outlet or installing a window air conditions which again 30 years ago could have required a new 240V circuit. Doing those updates would likely have required updates to what could be a 60A panel.
garbagecoder 4y ago
1. “We need a lot more ______ look at how much they get paid!” 2. Rush to re-train 3. Now ______ is paid way less There’s a name for this, something something market. Just make sure markets are fair, workers are protected, re-training is easy and this problem won’t keep repeating. But instead the focus is always on “learn to code/do wiring” whatever.

242 points by orangebanana1 4y ago

You mean decades of telling people if you go into the trades that you're a dumb ass has repercussions? Who could see that coming? https://www.mikeroweworks.org https://www.mikeroweworks.org

PaulHoule 4y ago

We are thinking of switching some gas appliances to electric in our old farmhouse but we probably need to rework our electrical panel completely to add high amperage services for an induction range (my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range) and an electric water heater. Fortunately our son is in training as a handyman and that means we can get him working on projects of all kinds around the farm. Of all the trades, electricity is the one that I know enough about to supervise somebody. (e.g. I am baffled by plumbing)

toomuchtodo 4y ago
If you need to upgrade your service entrance, if it's within your means, go to 400A to future proof (EVs, HVAC and hot water heat pumps, induction stove, and other large loads all add up, along with colocated generation of some sort). Depending on your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and utility, they may require a licensed electrician to replace the raceway or similar entrance to the meter. 200A is satisfactory if greater amperage isn't available (US centric advice). Think of this as the residential version of "dig once" [1]. EDIT: Yes, you may not need 400A immediately, but if you're doing an upgrade, the cost delta between the conductors for 200A vs 400A is not substantial except for very long runs. Also, some utilities will cover the cost of a service upgrade to the meter; from the meter onward into the home is your cost. Balance cost with future needs, future labor costs, etc. Very similar to dropping a whole bunch of cheap fiber in a trench just in case you need it in the future. I usually recommend people combine this work with a solar PV install, to capture the 30% federal tax credit towards the work (if you can justify the upgrade as necessary, which you can if your current service is less than 200A), as it has no limit on the amount you can capture as part of the install (versus the previous tax credit for electrical upgrade costs for installing an EV charging station). [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/policy_brief_dig_once.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/policy_brief_dig_once.p...
- UI_at_80x24 4y ago
  This is double-great advice. It's completely obvious once mentioned but not something that may have occurred of the top of ones head. Thank-you for posting.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    It's strange because 400a service will probably NOT ever be needed, but the cost difference from 100-200 and 100-400 is basically nothing. You can also get a separate meter installed instead or alongside, this can be useful it the property could be dual purpose (think: duplex, house + machine shop, etc). This can increase costs because of double baseline but it can also reduce costs because of double "low tier" - depends on the market.
- signaturefish 4y ago
  I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certainly not common).
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the numbers are weird there too. Wrong all around!
    - throwawayacc3 4y ago
      Voltage to residential main electrical service panels in the United States is 240V. Major appliances run on 240V circuits. So when you install a 400A panel in the US, it's 400A*240V which is 96,000W.
londons_explore 4y ago
There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is becoming a thing of the past - at least in places with strict certification requirements.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications. Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally... If you choose this route, understand that: * The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of any device/cable/connector downstream of it, unless that device has its own fuse), or badly made joints. Do joints properly with wago blocks or by tightening screw terminals very tight. * The 'obvious' risk from electrics of electrocution is reduced to almost zero by installing a whole-house RCD/GFCI device. I wouldn't want to live in a house without one. And turn the power off before doing electrical work.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    But not too tight, or the strands may break.
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      I have seen lots of near-fires/melted things from under-tightening, but I have never seen a single near-fire from overtightening. I suspect it's a myth - I don't think you could overtighten any connector sufficiently to make it be a fire risk without the screw shearing first. I'd be interested to see tests demonstrating otherwise though. Obviously if you are doing it to the standards, you crimp the wire first and use a torque screwdriver to tighten to the exact correct torque.
elicash 4y ago
There's a startup that is adding a battery to induction appliances, in part so that you can run off of a standard outlet: https://www.channingcopper.com https://www.channingcopper.com It's only in pre-orders, however. Edit: Looks like first round of pre-orders were limited to Bay Area and now there's a wait list for next round.
Siecje 4y ago
Your comment implies that you could hook up a ordinary electric range but not an induction range. I thought induction used slightly less energy. Or is it that it uses more energy for a shorter time so the net is less but the peak is higher? I assume I could replace my electric stove with a stove with induction "burners".
- mankyd 4y ago
  I believe the answer is that induction is more efficient at getting heat into your food. With electric, it heats up a coil that heats up your pan (and the air around it) that heats your food. With induction, it skips the coil and simply heats the pan. The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. It also means the work surface tends to cool quickly (or never get hot in the first place), making it safer.
  - MarioMan 4y ago
    >The pans are specially designed to contain a heating coil in them which implicitly is closer to your food. Just to note, you don’t need special pans to use an inductive stove. Any magnetic cookware will do, which includes cast iron and most stainless steel. As an intuitive rule of thumb, if a magnet will stick to the bottom, then it’s compatible.
  - mnw21cam 4y ago
    The pan doesn't have a heating coil in it - it's just a solid slab of metal. However, that acts like a single turn of wire in a "coil" shorted out.
  - greedo 4y ago
    Induction compatible cookware doesn't have a heating coil. They just need ferrous metal in them. They can be clad in aluminum, with a ferrous core etc. A cast iron pan works fine, and most stainless steel cookware is fine. It's just the cheap teflon stuff that's out of luck.
    - 4y ago
thehappypm 4y ago
Electric water heaters don’t need to draw a ton of amps. 4500 Watt, 240V 50 gallon ones are common, which is under 20 amps. Induction stoves peak at twice that.
danans 4y ago
> my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop. > and an electric water heater. Make sure it's a heat pump water heater if efficiency and operating cost matter to you.
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
  > She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop. This, and also easier cleanability than either of them (basically it doesn't need more cleaning than the rest of your kitchen counter) and much safer (won't heat anything non-metallic that you leave on top, won't heat the surface of the stovetop itself except indirectly via heat transmission from the pots/pans, and will automatically turn off if it doesn't detect a metallic item). I have one and there's no way in hell I'd go back to an ordinary electric range as long as I can afford not to.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    I've been looking at them, but almost all have unusable touch controls. (My background is human machine interaction - I've never seen an acceptable stove, but induction stoves are all really bad). Since I've have to replace all my cookware as well I'm not in any hurry.
    - danans 4y ago
      Functionally, the touch controls make the whole thing much easier to clean, but I agree they are harder to use. As with the touchscreens in cars, I'm sure it's also about marketing a sleeker product and lowering the bill of materials and labor - hence cost of manufacturing. Just wait a little longer and a manufacturer will start offering physical dials on an induction stove as a high-end feature, but also realize that it will still be control by wire like a computer input device, not a mechanically coupled control like a (dumb) dimmer switch - since it would be ultimately controlling the inductor in the stovetop via software.
  - 4y ago
bombcar 4y ago
It's interesting that I've found the people who are comfortable with plumbing are very wary of electrical, and vice-versa. Look for a "smart heat pump" water heater and you can probably get away without actually upgrading service unless you want to - 100 amp service can support a stove and water heater especially if the water heater is "smart" enough to not run when the stove is running. You can also find a friendly electrician to "check off" on your wiring after you do most of the grunt work, this works well for areas that require permits even for homeowner-done work.
- anon3846472 4y ago
  In Taiwan, electricians and plumbers are the same occupation. When you're getting your certifications, you have to get both. You can specialize in one, but you have to know plumbing and electrical work to pass.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I was thinking more on the DIY side; I'm entirely comfortable with electrical, but I worry I wouldn't "do" plumbing right (soldering copper, mainly; I have no issue with PEX); a friend of mine is the opposite.
latexr 4y ago
> Of all the trades, electricity is the one that I know enough about to supervise somebody. (e.g. I am baffled by plumbing) Curiously, we’re in opposite situations. I have a (very) basic understanding of electricity, just enough to change power outlets and the like. But in general I’m baffled by it because it’s a bunch of dangerous stuff I can’t see with values I don’t fully understand¹. Plumbing, on the other hand, is water inside tubes controlled mechanically. Taking things apart reveals the simplicity of the system. After doing a fix I can feel confident in the safety and reliability of the work even before opening on the main valve again². ¹ If anyone has recommendations on a trustworthy course / YouTube playlist which teaches enough basics to understand electrical wiring in residential homes, I’m interested. ² I’m not doing super complex jobs, but in my own home it’s been years since I’ve needed to call a plumber.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  I received a PhD in physics so I got a solid dose of electricity and electronics. I did help teach an autotutorial class in physics for premeds which got me to do a little more with fluid mechanics than most people but the trouble I have with plumbing is finding documentation for the details. For instance when it comes to sealing PVC pipes I have seen instructions that tell you to "refer to the documentation from the pipe manufacturer" which is not at all straightforward for pipes that have been there 20+ years.
- _whiteCaps_ 4y ago
  Not a course, but this channel has a ton of interesting content on US residential wiring: https://www.youtube.com/c/technologyconnections https://www.youtube.com/c/technologyconnections

mfer 4y ago

Electricians are a great example of skilled trades that are in demand.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Also impossible to outsource overseas.
- user-extended 4y ago
  You can import more.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Check with the IBEW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brotherhood_of_Electrical_Workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brotherhood_of_E...
- photonbeam 4y ago
  Are there visas available for those in blue collar trades like this? I’m wondering if they’re also protected from immigration related market forces on wages
  - floren 4y ago
    Electrical wiring practices differ from country to country. Anyone coming in on a visa would need some retraining if only to learn the local regulations. You can sling Javascript the same way in Chennai or in Cleveland, but I wouldn't want a UK electrician wiring my house in California.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - pjc50 4y ago
    Probably not, but the main issue would be that overseas certifications aren't valid. I'm sure it would be quicker to recertify / learn the local regulations than to start from scratch, but it's not free.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are supposed to be cables sheathed in green. The electrician also had to disconnect all of the wires from the circuit breaker in order to replace a plastic joint and replace it with a galvanized one. I understand that these regulations exist in the name of safety, just be aware that any electrical updates to your home will likely involve a lot more work than you initially think. Depending on what you are getting done, the inspector may need to recheck your entire home. And, you're probably going to scoff at a good number of the required changes. Context Edit: I'm located in Texas, and I ultimately had to have the electrical panel replaced entirely because there was a safety recall associated with it. Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead. When I first saw the estimate I made sure to shop around and to get multiple quotes in order to make sure I wasn't being taken advantage of. Thankfully, there were a few things I was able to remain grandfathered in for. Update: I now know that "fuse box" is not a synonym for "circuit breaker".

pyb 4y ago
In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  I don't think it's unreasonable to update to code when other changes are made.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

powera 4y ago

The critical path of "install more solar panels" is not at all gated by the cost of solar panels these days. It is the electrical work (both within in the home, and "interconnect") that is the expensive bottleneck. (( also batteries are also a bottleneck. but a different one. ))

photonbeam 4y ago
Panels are getting cheap enough that its almost worth just laying them on the ground in the yard than paying to put them on the roof
- powera 4y ago
  I wouldn't put panels where they are easily gnawed upon by rats and mice.

yboris 4y ago

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for applying Noalox, everything is just routine - strip a bit of the wire, screw it into circuit breaker, pop it in. Make sure the panel is grounded to outside (as before), and it's done. Feels like a very easy task for most people - provided that the old wiring didn't have errors. Happy to hear feedback / thoughts on this.

lisper 4y ago
Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.
- cschneid 4y ago
  The panel and the breakers in it are different things. If you get the right size breakers, that's fine, and even a good idea (breakers go bad over time from what I know. Maybe due to number of trips?). Putting in a new panel can get you more space, or just update to a currently maintained standard for breakers so you can find and put new ones in.
- mediaman 4y ago
  He said he wasn't upgrading amperage, so wire size requirements for existing breakers should not change. It sounds like he was adding circuits which means he's running wires for those new circuits anyway.
- jsmith45 4y ago
  That's not a consideration here. They were just replacing a smaller 100A panel with a larger one. with more circuit spots. That is always allowed. As long as you you use a panel that accepts the same type of breakers, you can also re-use the existing breakers, unless code require upgrading to AFCI breakers. Otherwise you swap them for new breakers of the same rating. (Assuming the US: There are some inspectors who would ok a panel swap that reused the existing breakers without requiring upgrades, but technically upgrading is supposed to be required, unless your state amended out the AFCI requirements in the state version of the code). Note: technically many breakers can fit in competitor panels, but they are not legal. They were not designed nor tested to trip at proper ratings in those panels, and using them violate the labeling of the panel. Now obviously the reason for upgrading the panel is to add more circuits, and it is possible that these additional circuits if added would need more power than the 100A service can provide. To technically comply with code, you need to follow the rules to calculate the expected loading of existing circuits plus planned new circuits.

mfer 4y ago

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot more. 3) Dealing with problems in regions. Like power outages in areas that deal with lots of snow and freezing. How do people have heat to survive? How do things work so that we don't have destruction to homes from frozen pipes? Stuff like that.

cinntaile 4y ago
I don't get what frozen pipes has to do with electrifying the home?
- mfer 4y ago
  There is a push to move to electric heat generation in homes in some areas. If electricity goes out you loose heat. In many areas you can have weeks (even months) where the temperature is below freezing. Loose heat to your home and your pipes can freeze. When this happens they burst causing damage to the home.
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    Pipes don't freeze immediately. A semi-decently insulated house will loose less than 10 degrees per day, so it would take a few days before pipes start freezing.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
      Cool! Most of the houses in areas of the US where pipes freeze are quite old, many have effectively no insulation (the one I currently rent has no insulation at all). If heat goes out, it'll reach outside temperature within a day. People here in Buffalo recently died because a blizzard took out electricity, homes lost heat, and they froze (mostly when they tried to get to the "warming shelter" locations and were trapped, but trapped in a car without heat vs trapped in a house without heat is freezing all the same).

user-extended 4y ago

*without raising salaries.

supertrope 4y ago
Where there's a will there a way. In business will is proportional to remuneration. Skilled labor is not cheap and it's even more expensive in high cost of living areas. Commercial jobs pay more than residential. The impact of COVID-19 is driving up labor rates.

api 4y ago

Maybe we can retrain the vast number of auto mechanics and gas station people we will no longer need?

ilyt 4y ago
EVs still need service, just different kind. Sure, some will be fired but in most cases it will be just getting new skillset required for EVs
- api 4y ago
  They overall need a lot less service than gas cars. No oil changes, far fewer moving parts, simple or no transmission, etc.

rufusroflpunch 4y ago

We're not going to electrify everything.

mmmBacon 4y ago

I think it’s more than just electricians that we need. We need additional training for electricians so they understand how some of the newer technologies work. I bought a high end LED light fixture that had a more modern dimmer that ensures the LEDs won’t flicker when dimmed. The dimmer wiring was completely different but well defined and standardized. I had a hard time finding an electrician that understood how to wire the fixture. I drew a schematic for them and I found out of 5 electricians only 1 could read the schematic.

e_i_pi_2 4y ago
I think the solution here is standardization - if you don't force a company to abide by some standard then they'll all create their own. We have the same issue with software - many programmers describe their job as creating the interface for different existing things. I think the issue here is that this isn't really the job of an electrician - they make sure the wiring in your house is safe but it's someone else's job to make sure their device complies with those expectations and is easy to plug-and-play with. Otherwise they'd need to train technicians to do the installation and most people don't want that

encoderer 4y ago

It sounds like it was just a COVID-related delay during the height of the pandemic. I also own a home in Berkeley and had no trouble getting 2 quotes for a panel replacement, and work started less than a week after the first phone call. It cost $12k for the new 200 amp panel and 4 new outlets. Now, landscape contractors, that’s been a harder nut to crack.

sbradford26 4y ago
That is pretty brutal on the cost. We live north of Boston is a decently high cost of living area but nowhere near California. I got the our main panel upgraded from 100 amp to 200 amp, the mast and meter socket replaced, and 4 new outlets in the basement for $2400 in 2021.
- encoderer 4y ago
  Wow! Yeah, skilled trades are not cheap in the sf area. Also, restaurants and houses. Groceries used to be far more expensive than the rest of the country but my recent visits to family in the Midwest have me thinking they have almost caught up on that one.
  - sbradford26 4y ago
    I also grew up in the Midwest and was just visiting home over Christmas. Groceries and other commodities seem to be similar prices, but everything else felt so cheap.

frankus 4y ago

I'm curious if there is some productivity-improving tech for electricians waiting to be invented. The following will be super North-America-centric, but: Right now you have to fasten a box to the wall structure, cut the wire so that about 8" can make its way into the box, strip the outer insulation and insert it into the box, strip at least some of the individual conductors, and then splice (by twisting and using wire nuts, or less commonly using a press-fit dingus) the ones that need to be spliced. You then repeat that for every outlet (which in electrician-speak includes lamps and such) on the circuit. Then repeat that for every circuit. You are now ready for your "rough" electrical inspection (the one before the in-wall wiring is covered). Then before the final inspection you have to individually connect each conductor to (usually) a screw on the actual device before cramming^H^H^H^H^H^H carefully folding the wire back into the box and screwing the device in place, followed by screwing the cover in place. Repeat for every outlet in the unit and you are ready for your final inspection. What I'm picturing is a special box that can insulation-displacement-crimp right onto the wire (probably with some giant pliers. On the inside it has some sockets that the eventual device plugs straight into, possibly with a sort of optional middleware layer that can reconfigure the connections for less common hookups. So you crimp all the boxes to the wire and fasten them to the wall structure and you're ready for the rough inspection. Then after the walls are covered you plug in the devices directly for all of the common configurations (e.g. just a receptacle in a string of receptacles) and fiddle with some kind of middle layer for the oddball configurations (e.g. a duplex receptacle where one of them is switched). As an alternative to the "middleware" maybe there are a collection of different boxes that are pre-configured for the circuit arrangement in question (not unlike plumbing components are today).

keltor 4y ago
There have been attempts to use modular electrical systems, but consumers want choice and flexibility and governments at least in the US want those inspection $$$$s.
frankus 4y ago
Or even something as simple as studs that come pre-drilled at outlet and switch height (they already come pre-cut to slightly less than 8 feet to be the right height when installed between top and bottom plates).

mwattsun 4y ago

I was an electrician in the US Navy but couldn't get an electricians job out of the Navy without starting over. We could help this shortage if we did more to qualify military electricians as civilian electricians when they leave the military.

linuxftw 4y ago
There is literally a program for this: https://usmap.osd.mil/navyRatings.htm https://usmap.osd.mil/navyRatings.htm
- mwattsun 4y ago
  I'm glad to hear this! This didn't exist when I got out, but there was talk about it. Makes too much sense not to do.

commandlinefan 4y ago

I thought I wanted to be an electrician growing up in the 80's, but my parents steered me away from it into the then-booming programming field. It does seem like programmers are doing a lot better than electricians these days.

prottog 4y ago
If you're a programmer who owns a home, there's a lot of electrician stuff you can do around the house. ;-)
mikeg8 4y ago
Financially, yes. Physically? I’d bet good money most electricians are in much better physical shape. Pulling wire, climbing ladders, using hand tools… it’s more physically demanding than people think. (My cousin is a journeyman electrician and I helped him wire the new house I built).
- anon23anon 4y ago
  well no duh that's why I go to the gym every morning. Looked at the average salary these peeps are making. Most ppl on here are making double plus some in my area as developers.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Those average salaries aren't very representative. Especially in major cities. We'll see how long those inflated developer salaries last as the layoffs pick up and AI replaces a lot of functions.
- quenix 4y ago
  We have gyms for this :)

jadbox 4y ago

There's a pricing factor to go all electric. Natural gas is still far cheaper for heating than using electric heaters.

igor47 4y ago
Usually true for resistance electric heating, but much less often true for heat pumps.

recycledmatt 4y ago

Copper too!

miguelazo 4y ago

Thank you for sharing this. Our local utility has a great scholarship/training program for underserved populations to become lineworkers. I'll share this with them in the hopes that they vastly expand it.

miguelazo 4y ago
Downvoted for this-- amazing!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

5544ffee 4y ago

I considered beginning an electrician apprenticeship because I just can't sit in a cubicle 40 hours a week anymore. I'm still young enough that the physical aspects aren't an issue, but the overall working conditions, pay and benefits sound terrible. I think I'd rather just learn to repair electronics.

LesZedCB 4y ago
same. if i could find something that's like 50/50 or some other ratio with a similarly scaled pay i think i could make the jump
- TheCapn 4y ago
  Industrial Controls / Instrumentation Tech Biggest downside is the field environments you can find yourself in. Depending on your industry you can be in some horribly smelly/disgusting facilities or dangling off catwalk way above ground trying to adjust calibration on some silly sensor. There's good ones though too. I'm a Software Eng in the industry so I don't ever really have much for field duty, but I work with several coworkers who are able to get their hands dirty when we're doing a site install: wiring panels, tracing faults, installing/adjusting sensors. But talking about pay scale is a bit iffy based on where you're at now. I don't make FAANG wages doing what I do, but I do make somewhere in the 80th+ percentile for my geographical location (Saskatchewan) so its all relative
  - LesZedCB 4y ago
    thanks, this is great info! i will look into this deeper
- hooper_ 4y ago
  I sort of went the other way. I started out as an Electrician, and over ~20 years have moved into Data Science (with many steps along the way). I can't speak for the US, but for Australia, there are many hybrid roles. A few examples of systems include: * Home Automation * Industrial Systems (designing & programing factory control systems) * Building Systems (designing and programing large building HAVC/Access Control systems) My experiance has been that people who understand and design both physical and software systems can find well paying work. That said, the career path often convoluted and personal relationships with the right people are critical.

zitterbewegung 4y ago

If we have near 2 percent unemployment it almost begs the question that do we need more people to seek employment ? And I don’t mean large layoffs or pushing people to go into trades school or disregarding going to college. It seems like all of these articles are saying we need more X people doing Y but doesn’t look at the whole picture that either people don’t want to do it because of risk but instead just are doing another job.

ghostly_s 4y ago

Really buried the lede in the last paragraph imo: > According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for an electrician in the U.S. is about $63,000 compared with an average of $58,000 for all occupations. They go on to point out it's higher in the Bay, and there's a wide range with many making more, but that's the mean so that means many are also making less. As explained earlier in the piece those high-paying union jobs are not the ones where this new residential retrofit demand is being generated. $5,000 above the average wage is a joke for a regulated, skilled trade. This will have to change.

LatteLazy 4y ago
We need them but not enough to pay them. The same for 1001 other jobs...
twblalock 4y ago
Even in the Bay Area, the pay is not all that great compared to other trades and other professions. The adoption of EVs, which are very common around here, has been very good for the owners of the companies that install them -- but the workers get paid the same hourly whether they are installing EV chargers or boring old normal stuff.
claudiulodro 4y ago
It's complicated and depends on the state. AFAIK California doesn't require an electrician license to be an electrician, so salaries are actually not that great compared to other parts of the country (Bay Area possibly excluded). Oregon does require a license, and there is a wide range of salary depending on which part of the State you're in, but at the lowest a journeyman (comparable to junior dev fresh out of college) will be making ~$60,000/yr in the lower-cost parts of the state. In the Portland area, you'd be making more than $60k even as an electrician apprentice. Anecdotally, my dad is an electrician and makes roughly what I made as a senior developer except he's way more in-demand and can make a decent living in any city in Oregon (or Maine because they have a cross-licensing scheme with Oregon). I live a couple houses down from an electrician in a LCOL part of the state, and his house is nicer and larger than mine! Reference: https://www.oregon.gov/boli/apprenticeship/pages/trade-details.aspx?trade=Inside+Electrician https://www.oregon.gov/boli/apprenticeship/pages/trade-detai... I would have gone into the field, but the waitlist for apprenticeships was hundreds of people long during the Great Recession, and it's going to be difficult to start a new career at the bottom for me at this point.

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onewheeltom 4y ago

I thought this was about needing more electricians….

bloomingeek 4y ago

My 2 cents: My home has a buried power cable from the late 60's. It's size can only handle up to 100 amps, my original main breaker was only 75 amp, we upgraded.(In my state all new houses have to have at least a 200 amp main.) The electrical trade is very rewarding, but very dangerous. You typically have to rely on co-workers to be responsible and safe, if they are distracted, life changing and/or ending results can occur. Before considering an electrical career, attend an arc-flash class to get an idea about what your are signing up for. If you are a detail person, it's a great trade. If you like working in all sorts of environments both in and outdoors, it's a great trade. It will take a long term toll on your body because of the mechanics of the jobs.

morphle 4y ago

Saul Griffith's books and lecture all predict the more than 25.000 electricians that are needed in the US and 40.000 electricians the EU needs in the next 10 years to install the transition to 100% electrical for all homes and business. That is how we going to solve the climate crises. https://www.rewiringamerica.org https://www.rewiringamerica.org https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saul+griffith&sp=CAI%253D https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saul+griffith&s...

mike50 4y ago

Barring Chicago style tactics. I doubt it wagos, pvc conduit, armor clad instead of EMT and preterminated outlets already save so much time. The article leads with a house that needed updated electric in the 1990s most likely and as is typical in high priced markets updates were deferred due to the cost of living. Even given most peoples illiteracy with regard to electricity people to get annoyed with not enough outlets, wanting an outdoor light or outlet or installing a window air conditions which again 30 years ago could have required a new 240V circuit. Doing those updates would likely have required updates to what could be a 60A panel.

garbagecoder 4y ago

1. “We need a lot more ______ look at how much they get paid!” 2. Rush to re-train 3. Now ______ is paid way less There’s a name for this, something something market. Just make sure markets are fair, workers are protected, re-training is easy and this problem won’t keep repeating. But instead the focus is always on “learn to code/do wiring” whatever.