21 ms·

NY Sabotages Right to Repair Bill [video]

427 points by asjfkdlf 4y ago

spritefs 4y ago
tl;dr Kathy Hochul sabotaged the version of the bill passed by the state legislature so that it requires only what Apple and Samsung are already doing The version that came out of the legislature would have required OEMs to sell individual components instead of only larger assemblies. For example, if something on a macbook board breaks they have to sell the individual component. Currently Apple/Samsung require you to buy the whole board for several hundred dollars reading between the lines here it's likely that Hochul was lobbied by the listed OEMs and NY law allows the governor to make sweeping changes to a bill before signing it (for some reason?? doesn't seem very pro-democracy to me). Video title should be "Kathy Hochul Sabotages Right to Repair Bill"
- bubblethink 4y ago
  >(for some reason?? doesn't seem very pro-democracy to me). Pretty sure that the legislature agreed to the amendment. So the blame should be equally shared by everyone. And democrats wonder why they lose seats in NY.
  - moloch-hai 4y ago
    Corruption is a bipartisan endeavor, particularly in New York and Chicago. But it must be said that it was made wholly legal by W Supreme Court appointees.
  - nojito 4y ago
    They lost them because of massive population loss over the last few years.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      They lost them in terms of population, and the lost them in terms of party flips. The primary reason Republicans have a slim Majority in the next session of the US House is party flips in NY and FL
      - keneda7 4y ago
        There were also a couple seats in CA the left expected to take from the right and failed to do so. The right in CA figured out they need to ballot harvest (it is legal here).
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>Pretty sure that the legislature agreed to the amendment. Pretty sure the legislature is not currently in session and could not have "agreed" which to most people would be voting on, the amendments to the law.
    - bubblethink 4y ago
      "I am pleased to have reached an agreement with the legislature to address these issues," Hochul wrote.
      - phpisthebest 4y ago
        Yes I am aware of what she said. You have yet to provide what that means, clearly no vote took place as they are not in session. So how did the legislature agree, under what law, rule, or mechanism was this agreement reached. I have yet to see anyone explain that, they just keel quoting the governor which has zero meaning and given I do not trust the governor I have not reason to trust that statement
        themitigating 4y ago
        Basically you want all the blame to fall to her because she's a Democrat whereas the legislator is mixed.
        tohnjitor 4y ago
        The state legislatures in NY are Democrat super majorities. As of Jan. 1 the Assembly will still be majority Democrat but will no longer be a super majority. Super majority meaning the Party can pass any legislation they want and the minority cannot do anything to counter.
- seanw444 4y ago
  Mind-blowing that you can have a rare nearly-unanimous decision be reached at a time when agreement is hard to come by, and it still won't get through.
  - busterarm 4y ago
    That's NY State politics for as old as time. Cuomo was famous for pulling this kind of shit regularly, like with the bi-partisan passed E-bike law he vetoed, because he had grudges against sponsors of bills or because they didn't come to him personally and "kiss the ring"[1]. Hochul has proved in short time to be every bit as rotten as her predecessor. Just without the grab-ass. [1]: trade political favors in exchange for him not vetoing your bill.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  > for several hundred dollars more to the dangerous point: for whatever amount they choose, even if they are specifically pricing it to make repair unreasonable.
bubblethink 4y ago
It seems like ballot measures are the only way a real R2R bill will pass. The incentives will never allow it to pass through the usual legislative route.
- tohnjitor 4y ago
  Ballot measures in NYS can only be proposed by the legislature.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
soniman 4y ago
There are manufacturers that explicitly encourage repairability, right? Lenovo? Any others?
- dns_snek 4y ago
  https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/
specialist 4y ago
"Albany is where good legislation goes to die." -- Quote from a personal friend It's takes decades to change policy, enact legislation. A very readable intro is the Waxman Report. https://www.amazon.com/Waxman-Report-Congress-Really-Works/dp/0446519251 https://www.amazon.com/Waxman-Report-Congress-Really-Works/d... My unsolicited advice is: - Convert this outrage into action. Do fund raising. - Set up an organization that can run a marathon. Burnout for activists is very high. - Someone, somewhere will pass this legislation. Find them. Even if it's just for virtue signaling. Like a city, which can't enforce such laws, passes a measure, to build awareness and demonstrate support for a policy. - Get politicians on record. Create a candidate questionnaire. Send it out to all campaigns. Publish the answers. - Encourage various local political parties (congressional districts, state level legislative districts, etc) to include your questionnaire (as part of their endorsement processes). - Get various parties to include your policy in their platforms. Again, builds aweness and demonstrates support.
- trinsic2 4y ago
  Thank you for offering solutions.
tharne 4y ago
[flagged]
- wiseleo 4y ago
  Madison Avenue may disagree about the statement about creative people. There are a lot of creatives in New York especially. As for good-looking people, there are several fashion modeling agencies there, which are an integral part of advertising. :)
  - tharne 4y ago
    > Madison Avenue may disagree about the statement about creative people. It was a joke :) I don't think any reasonable person believes that NYC is devoid of good-looking and creative people.
    - wanderer2323 4y ago
      Jokes are supposed to have some attempt at humor in them, you know
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  California is what happens when you take New York, get rid of the amazing public transit, then add a fake smile.
aaomidi 4y ago
[flagged]
Cypher 4y ago
sucks
Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
Louis Rossmann claims in this video that the bills text was changed in the last few days, an argument that hinges solely on the text of the memorandum attached to the governor signing it, which mentions an "agreement" between Governor and legislative, and hints at the content of said agreement. The document number mentioned in the memorandum as the signed bill is S4104-A According to the New York State Senate[1] the current version of the bill is S4104A from May 2022, which passed both Senate and Assembly in June. Note that nysenate.gov, at the time of me writing this, has not yet acknowledged the governor signing the bill, or filed any "agreement" with the governor or a changed version of the document. The New York State Assembly[2] has noted the signing and memorandum under actions, but published neither, nor an updated version of the bill. Are such "agreements to last minute changes" an actual thing in New York? Without changing the document number? Without filing the changes in a public documentation system? Without Senate and Assembly voting on the changes and documenting the vote? Can the New York State governor just scribble annotations in the margins when signing bills and those also become law? My first guess was that the memorandum includes a badly worded summary of the changes made earlier this year (S4104 -> S4104A) which passed the Senate and Assembly in June. But the memorandum mentions "provide assemblies of parts instead of individual components", which is the main hot button issue in the video, as well as eliminating the requirement to override security features, a big change to section 2.B of the bill, and exempting business-to-business and business-to-government sales. None of that seems to be present in document S4104A. So the memorandum seems to not be talking about the changes made earlier this year. Is the text of the memorandum about some agreement between governor and legislative complete and utter nonsense? Does the legislative process in New York State allow such last minute changes? The more i look at this, the worse it gets. There is a lot of criticize this bill for, like exempting motor vehicles and home appliances even if they include electronics. Some rather weird notice about federal law having a problem with repairing gaming consoles. But more than the law itself the process is broken. Why is the only source of this memorandum the twitter account of a journalist[3]? There is a press release on the governors website[4] but where is the canonical source of the memorandum? Does the Governor of New York State not operate a public filing system? And who is responsible to publish the actual signed bill to the public? According to Wikipedia[5] getting deep insight into the legislative process requires a paid subscription. WTF? New York State may need to repair more than just their consumer electronics. --- 1: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/ https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/ Bill according to Senate 2: https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?bn=A07006&term=2021&Actions=Y https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?bn=A07006&term=2021&Actions=Y Bill according to Assembly 3: https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 Memorandum 93 4: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-digital-fair-repair-act-law https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-digit... Governors Press Release 5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Bill_Drafting_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Bill_Drafting_Comm...
Gigachad 4y ago
What is the justification for being able to change the terms after the votes have taken place?
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  Right? That seems pretty antithetical to democracy. At least where I live, when the senate doesn't like a bill, they send it back to Parliament with recommendations. They can't just tack on whatever they feel like and ascend it from there.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Seems pretty typical of a republic though.
- 58028641 4y ago
  The legislature agreed to the changes.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I have asked this repeatedly. Maybe you can answer it Outside of the quote from the governor where she makes this statement, WHERE is this agreement? Under what authority was the agreement made, WHO in the legislature agreed to it? Under what authority did this person(s) make the agreement I ask because currently the NY legislature is not in session, and no vote could have taken place which is normally how one gets an "agreement" from a legislature
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - lbotos 4y ago
      I like you have seen that line parroted, and I thought this would be the place that shows the state of affairs: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendment/a https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendm... Hasn't been updated yet.
raybb 4y ago
Link to thread this week on another of Louis's video about the same topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34170525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34170525 (17 comments)
58028641 4y ago
All of US politics is corrupted by the donors because Supreme Court has declared many laws against corruption unconstitutional. https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline
- specialist 4y ago
  Just terrific. Illuminates the descent into madness most effectively. Thank you for sharing. Yes and: With Percoco v US and Ciminelli v. US, the current SCOTUS has another opportunity to bat down the government's ability to combat fraud. https://crooked.com/podcast/making-fraud-great-again/ https://crooked.com/podcast/making-fraud-great-again/ https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/ciminelli-v-united-states/ https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/ciminelli-v-unit... Embarrassingly, or perhaps tellingly, SCOTUS has previously been non-partisan in asserting their own immunity to frivolous stuff like anti-fraud and ethical oversight.
nrp 4y ago
For folks wondering how the late changes to the bill happened, you can see who funded the lobby efforts here: https://reports.ethics.ny.gov/publicquery/AssociatedFilings/AssociatedFocus/QTcwMDYtQg2 https://reports.ethics.ny.gov/publicquery/AssociatedFilings/...
- reilly3000 4y ago
  This is an awesome resource, but I'm left wondering how to interpret the data. For instance I see that Microsoft paid for a bunch of lobbying for a bunch of things, and it's clear they had 2 meetings with NY Senators and Executive staff about S 4104. What I don't see is what they were advocating for. Are they for or against it? Did they push some language that would benefit them in the long run? All I can see so far is that they were at the table. I haven't seen the video just yet but I'm sure Louis will break it down.
  - rychco 4y ago
    I think in this case it's fair to assume all the donors here are against right to repair.
    - jbsss 4y ago
      That’s a bad assumption. The “DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION” and “ AGRIBUSINESS ASSOCIATION (NYS)“ were on that list. I’d find it hard to believe they were involved with neutering this bill. I would still agree with you though, most of the orgs on that list were likely at the table attempting to ruin the bill.
      - nequo 4y ago
        Spectacular. Doing government as if it was a Sotheby’s auction. The law goes to the highest bidder.
      - celestialcheese 4y ago
        Can confirm DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION is Repair.org and was the opposition to TechNet and all the OEMs lobbying against this bill.
95014_refugee 4y ago
For those of us that cannot stand listening to Louis babble on, is there a concise summary written somewhere?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fexecve 4y ago
  The bill originally was going to make available to customers and independent service centers the same parts and manuals that manufacturer repair centers have. The governor edited the bill slightly in a way that makes it almost useless now. It was edited to say that manufacturers don't have to provide parts if they think that there's a safety issue. They can just make a "full assembly" available rather than individual parts. This means that if you have a $800 device, and a $10 part can fix it, but the manufacturer decides that it's a "safety issue" to sell anything less than a $700 "motherboard assembly" then this negates the entire purpose of right to repair. He says "this bill allows for malicious compliance in a way that makes it functionally useless".
  - a9h74j 4y ago
    Seems conceivable that this could come back to bite a manufacturer. For example, more cause for "safety recalls", or need to admit in testimony that a major assembly "had a known safety issue". Or might dealers be on the hook for higher certifications of repair technicians?
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    I'd also note (assuming the local news I saw had it right), that the changes also only require manufacturers to provide such "assemblies" if and only if they are manufactured in New York state after June 1, 2023. The news may have it wrong, but that's an oddly specific claim to wrongly make, IMHO.
- droidist2 4y ago
  He doesn't babble that much in this one, it's just a brief interview.
smnrchrds 4y ago
I believe the analysis. Here in Canada, the government passed a law not that long ago (during the pandemic) to enshrine rights of passengers for delayed and cancelled flights, which included right to specific amounts of monetary compensation in those scenarios. The law, however, had an exception, where no compensation is due if the flight is delayed or cancelled due to a safety issue. Lo and behold, the airlines have started classifying almost every delay and cancellation as a safety issue [1] and denying compensation claims left and right. [1] Here is an example of how ridiculously far the airlines have gone in claiming everything is a safety issue, even when it is things completely within their power to control: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-denies-compensation-1.6544234 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-denies-compensatio...
- jackmott 4y ago
  Surely these are engineered in cooperation with corporations so that politicians can get their win with the electorate and eat their corporate cash too?
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  They should make an addendum that any safety-related cancellations require a full inspection/re-certification of the aircraft that takes either a lot of time or a lot of money to go through. And any crew involved will be required to pass some sort of check flight or related process (at company cost of course.) Make spurious 'safety' cancellations expensive, very expensive.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    That would defeat the purpose. The point of the carveout is so that we don't accidentally incentivize the airlines to fly a flight that should be canceled for safety reasons, and this would do exactly that.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      Perhaps they could require the people who make the go/no-go decision on flight safety to visit a prison every three months and receive a lecture on how this will be their new home if they knowingly approve a plane not safe to fly.
harporoeder 4y ago
Shameless plug, the organization Louis (and I) work for, FUTO, is hosting a fellowship program sponsoring people to work on open-source software for three months for $20k-$80k and free housing in Austin. Applications are due Jan 1st! https://futo.org/fellows https://futo.org/fellows
- unnouinceput 4y ago
  This is not shameless plug, this is very late plug considering Jan 1st is less than 24 hours away. Should've done it faster, never heard of this until now.
  - readonlybarbie 4y ago
    They've been plugging it elsewhere for quite some time now.
  - richbell 4y ago
    So you're saying they should be ashamed... of not promoting it sooner? ;)
    - unnouinceput 4y ago
      exactly
      - jamiek88 4y ago
        Has it occurred to you that perhaps this is just the first time YOU are seeing it and that the person you are being rude to isn’t a complete idiot?
- neilv 4y ago
  Awesome. I just forwarded this urgently, possibly ruining some people's plans for Saturday. :)
- nomercy400 4y ago
  [flagged]
zeroCalories 4y ago
This is really sad. I don't follow politics, but I didn't think this level of blatant corruption really existed in the US.
- rychco 4y ago
  Honestly this is a fairly mild example of blatant corruption in the US. It's so commonplace I really wouldn't expect anything less.
- 58028641 4y ago
  The Supreme Court has struck down most attempts to get rid of corruption. https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline
- chrischen 4y ago
  Is this really corruption? I mean, it’s just how our politics works. It’s so blatant because it is how it works.
  - ectopod 4y ago
    This is true of every corrupt country. It's just how things are done. It's still corrupt.
    - chrischen 4y ago
      Well I mean it's codified in our laws so you can call it "dejure" corruption vs defacto corruption.
userbinator 4y ago
"safety and security"... I've always thought the infamous Ben Franklin quote, despite this not being the intended context originally, has become a memorable and brief way to show your opposition for this sort of thing.
COGlory 4y ago
I don't understand. The bill was passed with an overwhelming, veto-proof majority. Then it sat on the Governor's desk until she made changes (after intense lobbying)? But the NY legislature is not in session, but the bill is signed? So how were the changes approved by the legislature? What is the precise legal mechanism here? Is this legal? My initial impression is that this is an illegal act of tyranny and should be met like that. The governor should be impeached. Or, the very fundamentals of the American democratic system have been eroded to a point I previously did not comprehend. This is not anything like the picture Schoolhouse Rock painted about how this all works. Also, with a veto-proof majority, why on earth would the legislature ever even agree to any changes? Also also, fuck the governor.
- Animats 4y ago
  The amendment happened back in May 2022, apparently.[1] You can read the pre-amendment and post-amendment versions there. It was pretty much gutted. Right to repair for farm equipment was removed entirely, and rights involving digital devices made far weaker. That got press coverage in June 2022.[2] Other than cell phone screen and case repair, it doesn't seem too useful. [1] https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendment/a https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendm... [2] https://www.techspot.com/news/94843-new-york-senate-officially-passes-right-repair-legislation.html https://www.techspot.com/news/94843-new-york-senate-official...
  - Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
    The current debate is about an agreement mentioned in memorandum 93 ( https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 ), which describes changes that were not part of the amendment in May 2022. I also thought it may just be a bad summary of those changes, but it details changes that were not done in may. So it is either a very badly written memo, or there is something more going on than can not currently be seen in the public paper trail on the senate website.
    - Animats 4y ago
29athrowaway 4y ago
Another important point that the video doesn't touch on: the environment. Not being able to repair a device means less reuse, more e-waste, more garbage and that's bad for the environment. So this bill can be interpreted not only as "fuck the consumer", it's also "fuck the environment", "fuck our future", "fuck the planet", etc. It's doubling down on planned obsolescence.
college_physics 4y ago
Every such event reminds me of that celebrated fraud of an academic who argued that corporations exist to maximize profit within the applicable legal framework and that it is how things should be. The fact that corporate entities actively shape the legal framework to suit narrow interests that frequently undermine collective welfware somehow escaped him. When intellectual dishonesty and amoral behavior reach such systemic levels society crosses boiling points
- adlpz 4y ago
  Very well said. I believe in the ideals of individual initiative and market economy as means to achieve a better world for everybody, but when externalities and systemic inefficiencies are ignored and frameworks to deal with them are shaped by the same entities that are supposed to be ruled by said frameworks, the whole system corrupts and devolves into a machine that only benefits the few, while keeping the facade of legitimacy, which makes it doubly dangerous.
- r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
  Is this an academic who is celebrated and is a fraud or an academic who was defrauded. The second would be deliciously ironic. The first alas could describe entire economics sub fields
  - buzzy_hacker 4y ago
    I take it they are referring to Milton Friedman.
- codekansas 4y ago
  I'm not sure I understand what the alternative is - should you pretend that corporations are not ruthless profit maximizers, and allow them to have undue sway over our legislative system all the same? It seems like the root of the problem is that we've let the institutions which are supposed to hold our politicians to account when they exhibit blatant corruption fall into disrepair.
  - 4y ago
silisili 4y ago
This is really sad. I used to watch Louis when he was coming up. I didn't even own an Apple device, I just liked how he'd treat customers and show all of us his approach, and how to do it, for free. The corrupt government ruined him. It turned a beautiful young mind ready to change the world into a really bitter person. That's not a knock against him, but against the NYS Government. Glad he moved away, and hope he has more success in other districts.
- rendall 4y ago
  He'll be ok. Bitterness comes when one focuses on how reality does not meet expectations. However, reality is noisy, and just as often exceeds expectations. We can all choose where to place our focus.
- starbugs 4y ago
  I don't think he's bitter. He's just outraged and for good reason. We all should be I believe?
- pfoof 4y ago
  His bitterness is a great trait of him that on every video makes you feel "I can relate"
- sitkack 4y ago
  Louis isn't bitter. Outraged, concerned, but not bitter. There are so many dimensions and textures to "upset", I feel like folks have lost their ability to discern all the different types.
juancb 4y ago
As a country with a strong economy of defining things of producing IP, it makes no sense to allow others to modify our definitions; they are immutable and sacrosanct. On the other hand, if we were a country with an economy producing tangible things like parts or assemblies that can be used to repair something, it would make sense to allow folks to repair things. I am all for right to repair, but that is a pipe dream in our country, given our economic realities.
hericium 4y ago
Whenever I read about NY mayors or governors, it's like they are trying to be Gotham.
- themitigating 4y ago
  You didn't mention the ny legislator which must vote and pass a bill before it goes to the governor, why? Also mayors weren't involved in this discussion.
  - hericium 4y ago
    I wasn't referring to this particular case. Mentioned what I read in the past about (city) mayors and (state) governors and how to me - an outsider from the EU - it's these people who make New York similar to Gotham City. Short answer: because I don't read about them.
thetopher 4y ago
I just can’t watch Rossmann’s videos anymore. He’s a smart guy with important things to say, but it’s hard to take him seriously. His videos are 90% hyperbole, cynicism, and snide remarks. It’s too much to put up with to figure out what he’s really trying to say. I have to wonder if this style appeals to his audience, or if he’d be more effective without it.
- mordae 4y ago
  He's just tired.
- blamazon 4y ago
  This happens with a lot of full time YouTubers. They optimize the facets of their performance that boost the metrics with the mainstream and it often alienates the core audience that got them off the ground. I'm not surprised Louis has gone all in on emotional anti-authoritarian rants, it must play well with 'the algorithm', versus laptop repair.
theydidnt 4y ago
Figures
crmd 4y ago
I wonder what Gov Hochul’s powerbrokers got in return from the manufacturers in exchange for sabotaging this bill.
mrandish 4y ago
Sadly, the only surprising thing about this is that anyone is surprised the bill got 'mysteriously' nerfed at the last minute. This is the danger of centralizing too much power in government. A very good first step would be "one-and-done" term limits for all state and federal elected officials with restrictions on accepting employment with lobbyists or stakeholders with significant government business for five years after holding office.
- rish1_2 4y ago
  This is the vice of every public or private organization ever in existence. The term "politics" likely was created for this behavior. Checks and balances are needed whenever organizations are formed to avoid these kind of vices. But that will never happen.
honeybadger1 4y ago
I am sure the Governors net worth just went significantly up.
71a54xd 4y ago
Right to repair is quickly starting to enter similar territory as the 'free software' absolutists. Basically, people who refuse to basically look at the current environment of software / hardware realistically and decry their outdated ideals onto everyone else. All I generally care about is that I can get my data off of a device after some kind of failure or having a reasonably priced solution from the manufacturer. If the company I purchase from doesn't hold up their side of the bargain - I just buy somewhere else. I have five machines I've built in the past three years, admittedly I've only changed things in those maybe once a year. Never actually ended up needing an upgrade in any of my laptops. Independent repair shops have done more damage than good to every device I brought them in most cases, I've legitimately never had an issue getting devices fixed or replaced by Apple. Granted, as a prior fan of Louis' content, after meeting him in person and being treated awfully (after just saying hi and being chastised for living in the wrong part of NYC) I again have less respect for this "movement".
- asjfkdlf 4y ago
  I envy your experiences. I personally have had the opposite experience. It’s important to remember that your personal experience may not be the same as others. As this movement is very popular in the general public, my guess is many others have had bad experiences with trying to repair their device (i.e. $500+ for a simple repair from the manufacturer). I personally don’t care for Louis and he may be a jerk as you suggested, but I try to look at ideas instead of people. Some really bad people have had good ideas. If you follow ideas instead of people, it’s not an issue if you agree with someone on one topic and disagree with almost everything else they have said.

427 points by asjfkdlf 4y ago

tl;dr Kathy Hochul sabotaged the version of the bill passed by the state legislature so that it requires only what Apple and Samsung are already doing The version that came out of the legislature would have required OEMs to sell individual components instead of only larger assemblies. For example, if something on a macbook board breaks they have to sell the individual component. Currently Apple/Samsung require you to buy the whole board for several hundred dollars reading between the lines here it's likely that Hochul was lobbied by the listed OEMs and NY law allows the governor to make sweeping changes to a bill before signing it (for some reason?? doesn't seem very pro-democracy to me). Video title should be "Kathy Hochul Sabotages Right to Repair Bill"

bubblethink 4y ago
>(for some reason?? doesn't seem very pro-democracy to me). Pretty sure that the legislature agreed to the amendment. So the blame should be equally shared by everyone. And democrats wonder why they lose seats in NY.
- moloch-hai 4y ago
  Corruption is a bipartisan endeavor, particularly in New York and Chicago. But it must be said that it was made wholly legal by W Supreme Court appointees.
- nojito 4y ago
  They lost them because of massive population loss over the last few years.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    They lost them in terms of population, and the lost them in terms of party flips. The primary reason Republicans have a slim Majority in the next session of the US House is party flips in NY and FL
    - keneda7 4y ago
      There were also a couple seats in CA the left expected to take from the right and failed to do so. The right in CA figured out they need to ballot harvest (it is legal here).
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>Pretty sure that the legislature agreed to the amendment. Pretty sure the legislature is not currently in session and could not have "agreed" which to most people would be voting on, the amendments to the law.
  - bubblethink 4y ago
    "I am pleased to have reached an agreement with the legislature to address these issues," Hochul wrote.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Yes I am aware of what she said. You have yet to provide what that means, clearly no vote took place as they are not in session. So how did the legislature agree, under what law, rule, or mechanism was this agreement reached. I have yet to see anyone explain that, they just keel quoting the governor which has zero meaning and given I do not trust the governor I have not reason to trust that statement
      - themitigating 4y ago
        Basically you want all the blame to fall to her because she's a Democrat whereas the legislator is mixed.
        tohnjitor 4y ago
        The state legislatures in NY are Democrat super majorities. As of Jan. 1 the Assembly will still be majority Democrat but will no longer be a super majority. Super majority meaning the Party can pass any legislation they want and the minority cannot do anything to counter.
seanw444 4y ago
Mind-blowing that you can have a rare nearly-unanimous decision be reached at a time when agreement is hard to come by, and it still won't get through.
- busterarm 4y ago
  That's NY State politics for as old as time. Cuomo was famous for pulling this kind of shit regularly, like with the bi-partisan passed E-bike law he vetoed, because he had grudges against sponsors of bills or because they didn't come to him personally and "kiss the ring"[1]. Hochul has proved in short time to be every bit as rotten as her predecessor. Just without the grab-ass. [1]: trade political favors in exchange for him not vetoing your bill.
joshspankit 4y ago
> for several hundred dollars more to the dangerous point: for whatever amount they choose, even if they are specifically pricing it to make repair unreasonable.

bubblethink 4y ago

It seems like ballot measures are the only way a real R2R bill will pass. The incentives will never allow it to pass through the usual legislative route.

tohnjitor 4y ago
Ballot measures in NYS can only be proposed by the legislature.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

soniman 4y ago

There are manufacturers that explicitly encourage repairability, right? Lenovo? Any others?

dns_snek 4y ago
https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/

specialist 4y ago

"Albany is where good legislation goes to die." -- Quote from a personal friend It's takes decades to change policy, enact legislation. A very readable intro is the Waxman Report. https://www.amazon.com/Waxman-Report-Congress-Really-Works/dp/0446519251 https://www.amazon.com/Waxman-Report-Congress-Really-Works/d... My unsolicited advice is: - Convert this outrage into action. Do fund raising. - Set up an organization that can run a marathon. Burnout for activists is very high. - Someone, somewhere will pass this legislation. Find them. Even if it's just for virtue signaling. Like a city, which can't enforce such laws, passes a measure, to build awareness and demonstrate support for a policy. - Get politicians on record. Create a candidate questionnaire. Send it out to all campaigns. Publish the answers. - Encourage various local political parties (congressional districts, state level legislative districts, etc) to include your questionnaire (as part of their endorsement processes). - Get various parties to include your policy in their platforms. Again, builds aweness and demonstrates support.

trinsic2 4y ago
Thank you for offering solutions.

tharne 4y ago

[flagged]

wiseleo 4y ago
Madison Avenue may disagree about the statement about creative people. There are a lot of creatives in New York especially. As for good-looking people, there are several fashion modeling agencies there, which are an integral part of advertising. :)
- tharne 4y ago
  > Madison Avenue may disagree about the statement about creative people. It was a joke :) I don't think any reasonable person believes that NYC is devoid of good-looking and creative people.
  - wanderer2323 4y ago
    Jokes are supposed to have some attempt at humor in them, you know
IIAOPSW 4y ago
California is what happens when you take New York, get rid of the amazing public transit, then add a fake smile.

aaomidi 4y ago

[flagged]

Cypher 4y ago

sucks

Jon_Lowtek 4y ago

Louis Rossmann claims in this video that the bills text was changed in the last few days, an argument that hinges solely on the text of the memorandum attached to the governor signing it, which mentions an "agreement" between Governor and legislative, and hints at the content of said agreement. The document number mentioned in the memorandum as the signed bill is S4104-A According to the New York State Senate[1] the current version of the bill is S4104A from May 2022, which passed both Senate and Assembly in June. Note that nysenate.gov, at the time of me writing this, has not yet acknowledged the governor signing the bill, or filed any "agreement" with the governor or a changed version of the document. The New York State Assembly[2] has noted the signing and memorandum under actions, but published neither, nor an updated version of the bill. Are such "agreements to last minute changes" an actual thing in New York? Without changing the document number? Without filing the changes in a public documentation system? Without Senate and Assembly voting on the changes and documenting the vote? Can the New York State governor just scribble annotations in the margins when signing bills and those also become law? My first guess was that the memorandum includes a badly worded summary of the changes made earlier this year (S4104 -> S4104A) which passed the Senate and Assembly in June. But the memorandum mentions "provide assemblies of parts instead of individual components", which is the main hot button issue in the video, as well as eliminating the requirement to override security features, a big change to section 2.B of the bill, and exempting business-to-business and business-to-government sales. None of that seems to be present in document S4104A. So the memorandum seems to not be talking about the changes made earlier this year. Is the text of the memorandum about some agreement between governor and legislative complete and utter nonsense? Does the legislative process in New York State allow such last minute changes? The more i look at this, the worse it gets. There is a lot of criticize this bill for, like exempting motor vehicles and home appliances even if they include electronics. Some rather weird notice about federal law having a problem with repairing gaming consoles. But more than the law itself the process is broken. Why is the only source of this memorandum the twitter account of a journalist[3]? There is a press release on the governors website[4] but where is the canonical source of the memorandum? Does the Governor of New York State not operate a public filing system? And who is responsible to publish the actual signed bill to the public? According to Wikipedia[5] getting deep insight into the legislative process requires a paid subscription. WTF? New York State may need to repair more than just their consumer electronics. --- 1: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/ https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/ Bill according to Senate 2: https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?bn=A07006&term=2021&Actions=Y https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?bn=A07006&term=2021&Actions=Y Bill according to Assembly 3: https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 Memorandum 93 4: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-digital-fair-repair-act-law https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-digit... Governors Press Release 5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Bill_Drafting_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Bill_Drafting_Comm...

Gigachad 4y ago

What is the justification for being able to change the terms after the votes have taken place?

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
Right? That seems pretty antithetical to democracy. At least where I live, when the senate doesn't like a bill, they send it back to Parliament with recommendations. They can't just tack on whatever they feel like and ascend it from there.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Seems pretty typical of a republic though.
58028641 4y ago
The legislature agreed to the changes.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  I have asked this repeatedly. Maybe you can answer it Outside of the quote from the governor where she makes this statement, WHERE is this agreement? Under what authority was the agreement made, WHO in the legislature agreed to it? Under what authority did this person(s) make the agreement I ask because currently the NY legislature is not in session, and no vote could have taken place which is normally how one gets an "agreement" from a legislature
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lbotos 4y ago
    I like you have seen that line parroted, and I thought this would be the place that shows the state of affairs: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendment/a https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendm... Hasn't been updated yet.

raybb 4y ago

Link to thread this week on another of Louis's video about the same topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34170525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34170525 (17 comments)

58028641 4y ago

All of US politics is corrupted by the donors because Supreme Court has declared many laws against corruption unconstitutional. https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline

specialist 4y ago
Just terrific. Illuminates the descent into madness most effectively. Thank you for sharing. Yes and: With Percoco v US and Ciminelli v. US, the current SCOTUS has another opportunity to bat down the government's ability to combat fraud. https://crooked.com/podcast/making-fraud-great-again/ https://crooked.com/podcast/making-fraud-great-again/ https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/ciminelli-v-united-states/ https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/ciminelli-v-unit... Embarrassingly, or perhaps tellingly, SCOTUS has previously been non-partisan in asserting their own immunity to frivolous stuff like anti-fraud and ethical oversight.

nrp 4y ago

For folks wondering how the late changes to the bill happened, you can see who funded the lobby efforts here: https://reports.ethics.ny.gov/publicquery/AssociatedFilings/AssociatedFocus/QTcwMDYtQg2 https://reports.ethics.ny.gov/publicquery/AssociatedFilings/...

reilly3000 4y ago
This is an awesome resource, but I'm left wondering how to interpret the data. For instance I see that Microsoft paid for a bunch of lobbying for a bunch of things, and it's clear they had 2 meetings with NY Senators and Executive staff about S 4104. What I don't see is what they were advocating for. Are they for or against it? Did they push some language that would benefit them in the long run? All I can see so far is that they were at the table. I haven't seen the video just yet but I'm sure Louis will break it down.
- rychco 4y ago
  I think in this case it's fair to assume all the donors here are against right to repair.
  - jbsss 4y ago
    That’s a bad assumption. The “DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION” and “ AGRIBUSINESS ASSOCIATION (NYS)“ were on that list. I’d find it hard to believe they were involved with neutering this bill. I would still agree with you though, most of the orgs on that list were likely at the table attempting to ruin the bill.
    - nequo 4y ago
      Spectacular. Doing government as if it was a Sotheby’s auction. The law goes to the highest bidder.
    - celestialcheese 4y ago
      Can confirm DIGITAL RIGHT TO REPAIR COALITION is Repair.org and was the opposition to TechNet and all the OEMs lobbying against this bill.

95014_refugee 4y ago

For those of us that cannot stand listening to Louis babble on, is there a concise summary written somewhere?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fexecve 4y ago
The bill originally was going to make available to customers and independent service centers the same parts and manuals that manufacturer repair centers have. The governor edited the bill slightly in a way that makes it almost useless now. It was edited to say that manufacturers don't have to provide parts if they think that there's a safety issue. They can just make a "full assembly" available rather than individual parts. This means that if you have a $800 device, and a $10 part can fix it, but the manufacturer decides that it's a "safety issue" to sell anything less than a $700 "motherboard assembly" then this negates the entire purpose of right to repair. He says "this bill allows for malicious compliance in a way that makes it functionally useless".
- a9h74j 4y ago
  Seems conceivable that this could come back to bite a manufacturer. For example, more cause for "safety recalls", or need to admit in testimony that a major assembly "had a known safety issue". Or might dealers be on the hook for higher certifications of repair technicians?
- nobody9999 4y ago
  I'd also note (assuming the local news I saw had it right), that the changes also only require manufacturers to provide such "assemblies" if and only if they are manufactured in New York state after June 1, 2023. The news may have it wrong, but that's an oddly specific claim to wrongly make, IMHO.
droidist2 4y ago
He doesn't babble that much in this one, it's just a brief interview.

smnrchrds 4y ago

I believe the analysis. Here in Canada, the government passed a law not that long ago (during the pandemic) to enshrine rights of passengers for delayed and cancelled flights, which included right to specific amounts of monetary compensation in those scenarios. The law, however, had an exception, where no compensation is due if the flight is delayed or cancelled due to a safety issue. Lo and behold, the airlines have started classifying almost every delay and cancellation as a safety issue [1] and denying compensation claims left and right. [1] Here is an example of how ridiculously far the airlines have gone in claiming everything is a safety issue, even when it is things completely within their power to control: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-denies-compensation-1.6544234 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-denies-compensatio...

jackmott 4y ago
Surely these are engineered in cooperation with corporations so that politicians can get their win with the electorate and eat their corporate cash too?
genocidicbunny 4y ago
They should make an addendum that any safety-related cancellations require a full inspection/re-certification of the aircraft that takes either a lot of time or a lot of money to go through. And any crew involved will be required to pass some sort of check flight or related process (at company cost of course.) Make spurious 'safety' cancellations expensive, very expensive.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  That would defeat the purpose. The point of the carveout is so that we don't accidentally incentivize the airlines to fly a flight that should be canceled for safety reasons, and this would do exactly that.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    Perhaps they could require the people who make the go/no-go decision on flight safety to visit a prison every three months and receive a lecture on how this will be their new home if they knowingly approve a plane not safe to fly.

harporoeder 4y ago

Shameless plug, the organization Louis (and I) work for, FUTO, is hosting a fellowship program sponsoring people to work on open-source software for three months for $20k-$80k and free housing in Austin. Applications are due Jan 1st! https://futo.org/fellows https://futo.org/fellows

unnouinceput 4y ago
This is not shameless plug, this is very late plug considering Jan 1st is less than 24 hours away. Should've done it faster, never heard of this until now.
- readonlybarbie 4y ago
  They've been plugging it elsewhere for quite some time now.
- richbell 4y ago
  So you're saying they should be ashamed... of not promoting it sooner? ;)
  - unnouinceput 4y ago
    exactly
    - jamiek88 4y ago
      Has it occurred to you that perhaps this is just the first time YOU are seeing it and that the person you are being rude to isn’t a complete idiot?
neilv 4y ago
Awesome. I just forwarded this urgently, possibly ruining some people's plans for Saturday. :)
nomercy400 4y ago
[flagged]

zeroCalories 4y ago

This is really sad. I don't follow politics, but I didn't think this level of blatant corruption really existed in the US.

rychco 4y ago
Honestly this is a fairly mild example of blatant corruption in the US. It's so commonplace I really wouldn't expect anything less.
58028641 4y ago
The Supreme Court has struck down most attempts to get rid of corruption. https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline https://www.opensecrets.org/resources/learn/timeline
chrischen 4y ago
Is this really corruption? I mean, it’s just how our politics works. It’s so blatant because it is how it works.
- ectopod 4y ago
  This is true of every corrupt country. It's just how things are done. It's still corrupt.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Well I mean it's codified in our laws so you can call it "dejure" corruption vs defacto corruption.

userbinator 4y ago

"safety and security"... I've always thought the infamous Ben Franklin quote, despite this not being the intended context originally, has become a memorable and brief way to show your opposition for this sort of thing.

COGlory 4y ago

I don't understand. The bill was passed with an overwhelming, veto-proof majority. Then it sat on the Governor's desk until she made changes (after intense lobbying)? But the NY legislature is not in session, but the bill is signed? So how were the changes approved by the legislature? What is the precise legal mechanism here? Is this legal? My initial impression is that this is an illegal act of tyranny and should be met like that. The governor should be impeached. Or, the very fundamentals of the American democratic system have been eroded to a point I previously did not comprehend. This is not anything like the picture Schoolhouse Rock painted about how this all works. Also, with a veto-proof majority, why on earth would the legislature ever even agree to any changes? Also also, fuck the governor.

Animats 4y ago
The amendment happened back in May 2022, apparently.[1] You can read the pre-amendment and post-amendment versions there. It was pretty much gutted. Right to repair for farm equipment was removed entirely, and rights involving digital devices made far weaker. That got press coverage in June 2022.[2] Other than cell phone screen and case repair, it doesn't seem too useful. [1] https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendment/a https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s4104/amendm... [2] https://www.techspot.com/news/94843-new-york-senate-officially-passes-right-repair-legislation.html https://www.techspot.com/news/94843-new-york-senate-official...
- Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
  The current debate is about an agreement mentioned in memorandum 93 ( https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 https://twitter.com/JonCampbellNY/status/1608327624526548993 ), which describes changes that were not part of the amendment in May 2022. I also thought it may just be a bad summary of those changes, but it details changes that were not done in may. So it is either a very badly written memo, or there is something more going on than can not currently be seen in the public paper trail on the senate website.
  - Animats 4y ago

29athrowaway 4y ago

Another important point that the video doesn't touch on: the environment. Not being able to repair a device means less reuse, more e-waste, more garbage and that's bad for the environment. So this bill can be interpreted not only as "fuck the consumer", it's also "fuck the environment", "fuck our future", "fuck the planet", etc. It's doubling down on planned obsolescence.

college_physics 4y ago

Every such event reminds me of that celebrated fraud of an academic who argued that corporations exist to maximize profit within the applicable legal framework and that it is how things should be. The fact that corporate entities actively shape the legal framework to suit narrow interests that frequently undermine collective welfware somehow escaped him. When intellectual dishonesty and amoral behavior reach such systemic levels society crosses boiling points

adlpz 4y ago
Very well said. I believe in the ideals of individual initiative and market economy as means to achieve a better world for everybody, but when externalities and systemic inefficiencies are ignored and frameworks to deal with them are shaped by the same entities that are supposed to be ruled by said frameworks, the whole system corrupts and devolves into a machine that only benefits the few, while keeping the facade of legitimacy, which makes it doubly dangerous.
r_hoods_ghost 4y ago
Is this an academic who is celebrated and is a fraud or an academic who was defrauded. The second would be deliciously ironic. The first alas could describe entire economics sub fields
- buzzy_hacker 4y ago
  I take it they are referring to Milton Friedman.
codekansas 4y ago
I'm not sure I understand what the alternative is - should you pretend that corporations are not ruthless profit maximizers, and allow them to have undue sway over our legislative system all the same? It seems like the root of the problem is that we've let the institutions which are supposed to hold our politicians to account when they exhibit blatant corruption fall into disrepair.
- 4y ago

silisili 4y ago

This is really sad. I used to watch Louis when he was coming up. I didn't even own an Apple device, I just liked how he'd treat customers and show all of us his approach, and how to do it, for free. The corrupt government ruined him. It turned a beautiful young mind ready to change the world into a really bitter person. That's not a knock against him, but against the NYS Government. Glad he moved away, and hope he has more success in other districts.

rendall 4y ago
He'll be ok. Bitterness comes when one focuses on how reality does not meet expectations. However, reality is noisy, and just as often exceeds expectations. We can all choose where to place our focus.
starbugs 4y ago
I don't think he's bitter. He's just outraged and for good reason. We all should be I believe?
pfoof 4y ago
His bitterness is a great trait of him that on every video makes you feel "I can relate"
sitkack 4y ago
Louis isn't bitter. Outraged, concerned, but not bitter. There are so many dimensions and textures to "upset", I feel like folks have lost their ability to discern all the different types.

juancb 4y ago

As a country with a strong economy of defining things of producing IP, it makes no sense to allow others to modify our definitions; they are immutable and sacrosanct. On the other hand, if we were a country with an economy producing tangible things like parts or assemblies that can be used to repair something, it would make sense to allow folks to repair things. I am all for right to repair, but that is a pipe dream in our country, given our economic realities.

hericium 4y ago

Whenever I read about NY mayors or governors, it's like they are trying to be Gotham.

themitigating 4y ago
You didn't mention the ny legislator which must vote and pass a bill before it goes to the governor, why? Also mayors weren't involved in this discussion.
- hericium 4y ago
  I wasn't referring to this particular case. Mentioned what I read in the past about (city) mayors and (state) governors and how to me - an outsider from the EU - it's these people who make New York similar to Gotham City. Short answer: because I don't read about them.

thetopher 4y ago

I just can’t watch Rossmann’s videos anymore. He’s a smart guy with important things to say, but it’s hard to take him seriously. His videos are 90% hyperbole, cynicism, and snide remarks. It’s too much to put up with to figure out what he’s really trying to say. I have to wonder if this style appeals to his audience, or if he’d be more effective without it.

mordae 4y ago
He's just tired.
blamazon 4y ago
This happens with a lot of full time YouTubers. They optimize the facets of their performance that boost the metrics with the mainstream and it often alienates the core audience that got them off the ground. I'm not surprised Louis has gone all in on emotional anti-authoritarian rants, it must play well with 'the algorithm', versus laptop repair.

theydidnt 4y ago

Figures

crmd 4y ago

I wonder what Gov Hochul’s powerbrokers got in return from the manufacturers in exchange for sabotaging this bill.

mrandish 4y ago

Sadly, the only surprising thing about this is that anyone is surprised the bill got 'mysteriously' nerfed at the last minute. This is the danger of centralizing too much power in government. A very good first step would be "one-and-done" term limits for all state and federal elected officials with restrictions on accepting employment with lobbyists or stakeholders with significant government business for five years after holding office.

rish1_2 4y ago
This is the vice of every public or private organization ever in existence. The term "politics" likely was created for this behavior. Checks and balances are needed whenever organizations are formed to avoid these kind of vices. But that will never happen.

honeybadger1 4y ago

I am sure the Governors net worth just went significantly up.

71a54xd 4y ago

Right to repair is quickly starting to enter similar territory as the 'free software' absolutists. Basically, people who refuse to basically look at the current environment of software / hardware realistically and decry their outdated ideals onto everyone else. All I generally care about is that I can get my data off of a device after some kind of failure or having a reasonably priced solution from the manufacturer. If the company I purchase from doesn't hold up their side of the bargain - I just buy somewhere else. I have five machines I've built in the past three years, admittedly I've only changed things in those maybe once a year. Never actually ended up needing an upgrade in any of my laptops. Independent repair shops have done more damage than good to every device I brought them in most cases, I've legitimately never had an issue getting devices fixed or replaced by Apple. Granted, as a prior fan of Louis' content, after meeting him in person and being treated awfully (after just saying hi and being chastised for living in the wrong part of NYC) I again have less respect for this "movement".

asjfkdlf 4y ago
I envy your experiences. I personally have had the opposite experience. It’s important to remember that your personal experience may not be the same as others. As this movement is very popular in the general public, my guess is many others have had bad experiences with trying to repair their device (i.e. $500+ for a simple repair from the manufacturer). I personally don’t care for Louis and he may be a jerk as you suggested, but I try to look at ideas instead of people. Some really bad people have had good ideas. If you follow ideas instead of people, it’s not an issue if you agree with someone on one topic and disagree with almost everything else they have said.