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FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals
- theCrowing 4y agoThere is a German saying: "Wo ein Trog ist kommen die Schweine." roughly translates to "Where there is a trough - the pigs will come." Rather fitting for all the crypto meltdowns in the last years.
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- thejosh 4y agoAlso "schadenfreude" :-). (pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune).
- hef19898 4y agoAlso a nice word, but not the same as OP bon mot.
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- louwrentius 4y agoCrypto has attracted almost every type of criminal under the sun, to the detriment of 'regular' people who got conned into this stuff and is now left holding the bags. That German saying is on point and really sad.
- threeseed 4y ago> Crypto has attracted almost every type of criminal under the sun This is actually quite a profound statement. Is there actually anything in human history that can come close to rivalling this ? We have everyone from teens promoting shitcoins on TikTok, to household celebrities like Matt Damon, to white collar criminals, to arguably VCs, all the way to nation states like Iran and North Korea.
- blantonl 4y agoThe western United States was pretty wild for a while until it was "tamed"
- pibechorro 4y agoIncorrect. There was less violence overall in the wild west. Modern America has insane violence at much larger scales (inner city gang violence in Chicago, millions of civilians killed over the past 2 decades via Iraq, Drone programs, etc). The wild west was only wild because Hollywood needed a narrative.
- nradov 4y agoYou shouldn't be down voted, this is largely correct. High rates of violence in the "wild west" are a myth created by Hollywood. https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=6182 https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=6182
- astura 4y agoIt was downvoted because it was an irrelevant, off topic rant. The question was about financial fraud, not violence.
- xbar 4y agoI would clarify further. High rates of violence were an exaggeration of 19th Century East Coast newspapers that created a myth that was perpetuated by Hollywood.
- LastTrain 4y agoInteresting. Do you have any sources of information to back that up? It contradicts my perception of things, and I would like to know if I've been operating under a faulty understanding. Example: according to this [1] article : per-capita murder rates were something on the order of 30/100000 in colonial times, 15/100000 in the "wild west" period compared to 6/100000 today. [1] https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/ https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent...
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
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- pibechorro 4y ago3rd party exchanges and banks.. basically like it always has. Crytpo, aka your keys, are still fine.
- peteradio 4y agoReminds me of the American phrase "What exactly were you expecting?!"
- TheMaskedCoder 4y agoActually, this seems like a rather interesting defense of crypto. To use the metaphor, did the trough create the pigs? Or did it only draw a horde of pre-existing pigs to one place? Perhaps the amount of quasi-criminals that we are seeing in the crypto sector right now is just a sign that crypto was highly successful and not a condemnation of crypto in and of itself.
- wffurr 4y agoSuccessful at what, enabling criminal activity?
- Semaphor 4y agoYou are half right. It obviously did not create the pigs, but the "trough" is the place for easy pickings: Crypto. Of course Crypto did not create scammers, scammers simply have an easy time scamming people there.
- ajhurliman 4y agoAgreed 100%, but troughs are good for other things besides feeding pigs. I hope the actually innovative, non-scam projects don't have their name tarnished too much by all the pigs.
- sebastialonso 4y agoAm I understanding this correctly? The very fact that the Crypto scene was filled with criminals is direct evidence that "it works"? Is this a soft implication that the same scene should "continue" to exist as it currently is?
- mberning 4y agoIt’s amazing to me that enough people still believe in the crypto scam to keep pumping BTC above $15k. I guess they are still managing to mint fools at a fast enough pace to keep the price up.
- rxyz 4y agoBTC has survived a lot of "crypto scams" though
- k__ 4y agoWhat's collapsing again and again are the companies that try to force TradFi ideas onto the DeFi ecosystem. So, in terms of "crypto scam," there's nothing to see here.
- flanked-evergl 4y ago[deleted]
- maeln 4y ago> He had vowed to give up to $1bn to political candidates linked to causes he supported, a pledge from which he later backed away. I can too promise the moon and never deliver.
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- maeln 4y agoEvery collapse has been self made. I don t see how the institution have anything to do with that.
- k__ 4y agoSorry. With institutions, I meant companies like FTX.
- CPLX 4y ago> The second near-failure of UB occurred when the site was riddled by extensive credit-card fraud during its first year or so of operations. That led parent company ieLogic to develop an antifraud software suite called ieSnare that was so effective that the company was able to license it to other online concerns. That’s a pretty interesting little side story.
- RL_Quine 4y agoFeels sort of nonsensical honestly. Credit card anti fraud is entirely reactionary, there’s no magic bullet, you’re just papering over the cracks of an absolutely broken payment system. Every service will see different fraud, it will always be changing, there’s no one fits all solution. Very frequently the “rules” of the systems aren’t solid and everybody trying to exploit them knows that.
- CPLX 4y agoIt piqued my interest enough to google it and it seems like it’s actually a notable thing in the online betting world and is indeed fairly sophisticated and purpose-built. One example blog post: https://csgobetting.com/iesnare-how-youre-being-made-paranoid-how-to-get-on/ https://csgobetting.com/iesnare-how-youre-being-made-paranoi...
- stephc_int13 4y agoI wonder if there are cases of large scams where the perpetrators are smart enough to avoid being caught. Not all criminals end-up behind bars. I suspect that some scams can go unnoticed for long enough. I also suspect that scam opportunities are exploding.
- sbarre 4y agoAny kind of electronic gambling setup is amenable to insider scams. Keep it low-key, don't get greedy, and you can probably milk it forever.
- linuxftw 4y ago> perpetrators are smart enough to avoid being caught. IMO, many startups are scams on some level. VC A funds company X. VC A also funds company Y. Company Y 'decides' to use company X's hot new product and has a lofty enterprise license. This happens a few more times. Company X now has very large revenues, VC's friends at big-nation-bank decide it's time to IPO and cash out.
- joecasson 4y agoI wish a VC's recommendation or direction was all it took to get a deal done. Getting a "lofty Enterprise license" through procurement is so much harder than you are stating. They can make an introduction, sure, but very few VCs are micromanaging to the point of determining a portfolio company's tech stack. Source: a decade of VC funded Enterprise saas company selling experience
- mrleinad 4y agoLarry was right for once [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH5-rSxilxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH5-rSxilxo
- simongray 4y agoLarry the character maybe; not Larry the real person.
- mrleinad 4y agoI'm really not sure where the line is between those two.
- simongray 4y agoThe real one is promoting crypto by playing a "foolish" version of himself on camera in exchange for money.
- mrleinad 4y agoI don't see anything wrong there. He got paid to make an ad, and it's clear that's what it is. If he was promoting FTX on his own personal account like so many "influencers" do, then I would be ok criticizing him.
- mring33621 4y agoI loved these commercials but they failed to convince me to put any money in FTX, or crypto altogether.
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- snake_plissken 4y agoThere is no difference tho? The show is about him playing himself.
- arisAlexis 4y agoThis has nothing to do with Tether the author added it jut as a sauce, hilarious
- JustLurking2022 4y agoTether has similarly been caught in the past using the funds behind their supposedly "fully backed" tokens for highly speculative investment. So far it's just such a big scam that no one has been able to create a large enough run to topple it... so far.
- arisAlexis 4y agoNot really but it’s a long discussion. In any case in this sense the author coul also throw other kinds of conspiracies unrelated. True journalism ! Add your sauce
- rideontime 4y agoYes, really.
- arisAlexis 4y agoBecause you read it on Reddit right? Send any proof you have to the NY district attorney and SEC if you know inside info. Don’t be this internet guy.
- rideontime 4y agoWay ahead of you. ;)
- shkkmo 4y ago> Stuart Hoegner, another former UB lawyer, holds a similar regulatory-compliance post with rival crypto firm Tether Both Tether and FTX hired former white collar criminals from the same company to head their regulator compliance.
- bedhead 4y agoAs if crypto wasn’t useless enough, it’s always at the center of endless scams. What’s it gonna take for people to walk away from this poison?
- hef19898 4y agoA new poison? Crypto is the latest promise of fast, easy money. There will be new ones.
- once_inc 4y ago"Crypto" is useless. Bitcoin isn't. Maximalists have been warning against this stuff happening for nearly a year now. Ever since Luna collapsed, those voices grew louder, but the yield-farming degenerates chose not to listen.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago> "Crypto" is useless. Bitcoin isn't. What unique properties does Bitcoin have that makes it useful that other cryptocurrencies don't, beside first mover advantage?
- MichaelCollins 4y agoI'm guessing the logic is something along the lines of "all crypto is crap... except for the crypto I have of course."
- once_inc 4y agoYou guessed wrong.
- MichaelCollins 4y agoYou own no BTC then? That's strange for somebody who evidently thinks it so great.
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- themgt 4y agoIt's incredible that SBF was being touted by Sequoia, WEF, Fortune, chumming it up with Clinton and Blair in the Bahamas, getting meetings and kid glove treatment with the SEC, relatively glowing profile as a "do-gooder" by the NYT. All while FTX had a Chief Regulatory Officer who was basically a career white-collar criminal. It beggars belief that anyone who dug half an inch into this story wouldn't have seen 90,000 watt flashing red warning signs. Crypto turned into a haven for replaying every form of financial fraud ever invented on an epic speedrun against retail "investors", and a whole lot of powerful people and institutions have dirty hands. The idea all of this could be adequately explained by stupidity rather than malice strains credulity. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/14/business/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-crypto.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/14/business/sam-bankman-frie...
- zozbot234 4y agoWait, wasn't the NYT supposed to take a very critical look at everything in "tech", as a matter of editorial policy? Why were they giving such a glowing (no pun intended!) endorsement of crypto, of all things? Something doesn't add up here.
- settrans 4y agoIn case you're not being facetious, Sam was the single second largest donor to the Democratic Party.
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- Marazan 4y agoTo Democratic Primary races. To get the pro-crypto candidate over.
- headsoup 4y agoWhat a lovely democratic process it is, candidates weighing up which industry interest has done the best job at wooing them. SBF is another reminder of how far down the list of priorities integrity actually sits (not that he succeeded here, but that he's in good company in the approach).
- new2this 4y agoClickbait title. Tether is only vaguely mentioned and there is nothing related to Tether operations- only to an employee at Tether. While this article covers an interesting topic, the title is clearly an attempt to bandwagon on the "Tether is next" narrative while contributing nothing substantial to the conversation
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- shkkmo 4y agoTether is pretty specifically, if briefly mentioned. What is vague is the description of what provable role Stuart Hoegner had with UB's lawbreaking.
- svara 4y ago> Friedberg, who served as FTX’s general counsel before taking on the company’s regulatory role, was recently described by Coingeek’s Steven Stradbrooke as being “almost comically inappropriate” for the job. The description appears apt, given Friedberg’s long history of not complying with various jurisdictions’ regulations, but rather, evading them. Can't make this up. Reads to me like, on the contrary, they couldn't have found anyone more qualified.
- NBJack 4y agoThis whole thing sounds like a Netflix movie waiting to happen.
- hef19898 4y agoAt that rate Netflix will have to do some serious selection movies if they want to be ready for the next economic down turn in 10 years or so.
- lcole14 4y agoMight be coming sooner than you think: https://theankler.com/p/hwood-ftx-frenzy-as-michael-lewis https://theankler.com/p/hwood-ftx-frenzy-as-michael-lewis
- loceng 4y agoIs there truth to the U.S. sending money to Ukraine -> Ukraine funding FTX -> FTX being 2nd largest donor to Democratic party in the U.S.? Timeline: - April 25, 2019: Biden announces his presidential campaign. - 13 days later, Sam Bankman-Fried, son of Barbara Fried (co-founder of political fundraising organizations), launched FTX crypto exchange. - The exchange is an overnight success. Sam Bankman-Fried (SBM) becomes biggest donor to Biden. - Most of the FTX team is reported to have flown to Hong Kong now, so China, the CCP is their safe haven?
- yonaguska 4y agoFrom what I'm reading, Ukraine used FTX to facilitate donations to Ukraine. I'm waiting for more details on the claim that Ukraine actually directly funded FTX. In other funding news- FTX did fund one of the studies that "debunked" Ivermectin as an effective covid treatment. There's definitely a strong political slant to this scandal.
- loceng 4y agoAnd quite interesting that most of the FTX team/founders are reported to now be in Hong Kong - arguably knowing they have the protection of China?
- rideontime 4y agoSource?
- loceng 4y agoSorry, I looked through a lot of articles and I don't recall which one it was; they're reported to be both in the Bahamas and Hong Kong, the Bahamas authorities also having said a claim that SBF made about them directing him to do certain actions weren't true. Certainly there will be a lot of noise to shuffle through over the next few days, weeks.
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- wly_cdgr 4y agoDisgusting. SBF and this Friedman guy need to be literally physically flogged to a sobbing mess in the public square and then put into the ring for eight rounds with Mike Tyson. Better than they deserve. Absolutely vile. It is bad enough to cheat as a player/trader but to be responsible for the integrity of the platform and act like these guys is beyond the fucking pale
- vba616 4y agoFriedman or Friedberg? When calling for violent reprisals against people with common names, you should at least make sure it's the right one.
- wly_cdgr 4y agoYou are right. Friedberg. But, what I am calling for is not a lawless reprisal but something a little closer to appropriate punishment than either is likely to get. Punishment that many people in countries with much more history culture and civilization than ours, like China, would agree is gentle and mild for these kind of crimes. In China someone like SBF would likely just be executed, and yes, this seems on the harsh side of reasonable and deserved - but only just.
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