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Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?
- kshacker 4y agoBut the cost of carrying deadweight by shaming is not going to work forever. I have been shaming myself and clicking lowest % shown in the screen but this past weekend I finally said no and clicked on 0%. Was not a restaurant just to pick up something pre ordered forget where.
- sergiotapia 4y agoI think it's a US thing. I came from Bolivia and never once tipped anywhere outside of restaurants. No, I won't tip you for packaging 4 cookies in a box at Crumbl Cookies lol.
- waynesonfire 4y agoThe intent is not to reward a task. It's a nod of appreciation that there is even an employee that's willing to show up to work and service you. You give them a dollar. At least that's how I look at it. I'm not a fan either just articulating my attitude towards it.
- sergiotapia 4y agolol i thought my buying cookies was the goal of the business.
- Firmwarrior 4y agoYeah, fair enough.. I don't like it though. That's why I work at FAANG for a high salary instead of randomly fixing open source bugs and jingling my Patreon jar at people
- dcchambers 4y agoThat's not at all how tipping was intended though. Tipping started as a way to express thanks for someone going above and beyond in their duties. It's devolved into a way for employers to pay less and shift the cost directly to customers via guilt at the cash register.
- FalconSensei 4y agoAFAIK, but it could be wrong, it was basically racism. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opinion/minimum-wage-racism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opinion/minimum-wage-raci...
- _aavaa_ 4y agoHow about the business they work for show their “appreciation” and pay them
- aeternum 4y agoIf the business can't get employees to show up based upon the advertised prices then it should shut down. Come inside and get a boba for $7! Then you go inside and they're like please give us $9 plus tax and if you actually want boba in it that's extra.
- FalconSensei 4y ago> employee that's willing to show up to work and service you So you tip the cashier at the supermarket? They bag your groceries for you
- no_wizard 4y agoI've noticed quite recently in the last 4-5 years that this isn't true anymore. More and more grocery stores I shop at expect you to bag your own groceries. Its been a wild shift in labor there to me. When I was growing up I worked at a big box retail grocery and I don't remember ever having customers bag their own items unless it was self checkout (which was barely a thing and truly seemed relegated to simple checkouts). Now the only place I don't have to actively bag my own things is Costco, which recently started heavily pushing their own self checkout (which, due to how items are sized there to be in bulk, makes things slow and awkward for the general public IMO). This luxury is dying.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoI would expect more of that as the population pyramid skews older and older and supply of lower price labor decreases.
- gs17 4y agoI even remeber being scolded sometimes years ago for bagging my own stuff when there wasn't a second worker to do it. At some point in COVID, Trader Joe's got extra strict about it, even as I pointed out it meant more people touching my groceries "for my safety". Now they really don't seem to care. > Now the only place I don't have to actively bag my own things is Costco, which recently started heavily pushing their own self checkout (which, due to how items are sized there to be in bulk, makes things slow and awkward for the general public IMO). At my local Costco, the "self-checkout" is really more like 6 cashier lines manned by one cashier. We have to wait for the employee to do everything and it's really bizarre to me, and either type of checkout just leaves things sitting in your cart in the end unless you manually box/bag them after. People seem to prefer it to the normal lanes, though. Is yours more like the self checkout at a normal grocer?
- alistairSH 4y agoI showed up and wrote some software. Should my customers tip me too? If tipping actually resulted in better service, maybe there'd be a reason to keep it. But, certainly anecdotally, it doesn't. Service in the US hasn't been any better for me than service in nations that don't tip, or tip much less.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoWhen I see a construction crew fixing the road, I stop and shove a dollar in each of their pockets, and then I continue on my way. Luckily, my employer’s clients also give me a few dollars each time I see them, so I do not have to to the bank that often to get change.
- lghh 4y agoNot just packaging, it also tips the baker.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lotsofpulp 4y agoHow is a customer supposed to know that?
- lghh 4y agoWhy would a customer automatically assume the opposite?
- asdff 4y agoI assume a tip jar sitting at the front of the house goes to the front of the house staff, honestly. Especially at bakeries, the baker comes in at midnight and is gone by 4am, there's no sense you are interacting with the baker nor any guarantees that the front of house staff will leave a pile of money behind for the bakers at midnight to distribute amongst themselves.
- xtracto 4y agoWhy should the Baker expect to receive alimony?
- joenot443 4y agoOf the dozens and dozens of times I've smiled and happily tapped 0% or No Tip, I've never had the cashier say a thing. I did four years of minimum wage work at McDonalds. The only time I can remember getting tipped was when I jumped out the window after a $50 the guy had dropped. He let me keep the $10 change. If people running a drive-thru for 12h without a break don't deserve tips, I don't see why the people pouring coffee in a trendy cafe like the author describes would.
- FalconSensei 4y agoExactly. Nothing makes sense in the end when you think about it.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoPaying the number a seller asks you to pay and you agree to pay makes sense.
- FalconSensei 4y agoNothing about "tipping" makes sense
- rhino369 4y ago>If people running a drive-thru for 12h without a break don't deserve tips, I don't see why the people pouring coffee in a trendy cafe like the author describes would. Exactly why I don't tip at coffee shops or to-go places. For waiters and delivery guys, that's part of the deal. But I guiltlessly hit 0 everywhere else. I'm only not even sure who gets the tips at some places. Like I go pick up a to-go order and I tip 10 bucks. Who is getting it? The person who packed it up? The person who handed it to me? The boss? I have no clue.
- Der_Einzige 4y agoThe only reason I continue to tip is the knowledge that my food will be spat in / worse if I don't. I would happily pay higher food prices to avoid tipping culture. Tipping culture simply doesn't exist in most of the world, and Americans who can't imagine a world without it here have no vision.
- jonpurdy 4y agoI personally got so exhausted from decision fatigue and being forced to choose a tip or not that I just go to fewer coffee shops as a result. Make it a seamless experience (single tap) and charge enough to cover costs plus profits plus a good wage and I'm happy to support.
- kmonsen 4y agoSame here, just the whole hassle and knowing that the ice cream/coffee/cookie is going to be significantly more expensive is putting me off enough to sometimes to just avoid the whole thing. Good for my diet I guess.
- lghh 4y agoThe post addresses why raising prices isn't a good option for most businesses. I find the argument convincing. Tipping culture _is_ you paying the higher price. > The only reason I continue to tip is the knowledge that my food will be spat in / worse if I don't. I know this is anecdotal, but I have worked in many places that serve food/drinks & take tips. I have never seen someone get their food spat in. The places where tips are most expected, restaurants with wait staff + bars, ask for tips at the end of service. All other places don't have the expectation of tips beyond it being nice to get one.
- Der_Einzige 4y agoI'm talking about being spat in the NEXT time you go there. If you're known to not tip, you're at risk of this behavior. It's far worse with things like UberEATS. Your paying the driver to not eat your fries and sip your drink One time, my drink from UberEATS had a line of lipstick on the rim of the straw. I guess I should have tipped more.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cammikebrown 4y agoAs a bartender, I know that I will make more money from tips than any business owner would ever pay me, even if prices were raised 20+% and tipping was removed. I’d rather risk a slow shift with less tips than work a job with a slightly higher hourly rate and no tips. I know there is a lot of bitching online about tips, and I agree that since COVID I’ve seen some absurd situations with asking for tips when the customer is essentially doing everything themselves, but most people tip fine.
- lelandfe 4y agoQuestion, how much to tip per drink to be a good patron? :)
- cammikebrown 4y agoA dollar is great!
- maerF0x0 4y agoI've gotten poor treatment after giving 10% on a $18 drink before. Edit: so I guess I'd ask what is the approximate reference price for your "A dollar" comment? Cause if it's a $5 can of beer, vs a $20 cocktail those are very different tips.
- cammikebrown 4y ago$18 cocktails are pretty expensive. I work at a brewery so I’m not used to that.
- HEHENE 4y agoI have always understood the rule of thumb to be $1 for “poured” drinks (beer, wine, etc) and $2 for cocktails.
- kahrl 4y agoI think most complaints are coming from customers who don't want to have to consider the wellbeing and livelihood of underpaid employees, who require charity to survive. In most every transaction these days, customers are guilted into providing wages for essentially unpaid employees, and I'm sick of the mind games.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y ago> If a coffeeshop wants to pay their employees more they will have to raise prices This does not follow purely from the facts presented. Consider: "If a coffee shop wanted to pay their employees more, the coffee shop itself might take a smaller cut and keep prices the same."
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoIn practice coffee shops have tiny margins so they can’t afford to do that.
- hailwren 4y agoI also hate tipping everywhere, but coffee shops might also like to adjust their prices slightly for customers that don’t mind paying a bit more for well paid staff and for those customers to whom price is a major concern when choosing where to purchase their coffee. Dynamic pricing makes some sense in the concept of trying to capture maximum demand, it just feels horrible as a customer.
- Raed667 4y agowe are not machines, if i'm paying more (or even less) than the person in front of me at the line: 1- I'll make a scene 2- I'll never come back 3- It is probably a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen
- hailwren 4y agoI mean, this is what is happening with the dynamic tipping system and none of these things appear to be happening.
- freedomben 4y agoThere's a critical difference between dynamic pricing and tipping: one is optional, the other is not. That makes a huge difference in the psychology.
- wrycoder 4y agoHow much of the “tip” actually gets to the employees?
- britch 4y agoIf it's not 100% it's wage-theft
- RegnisGnaw 4y agoReally? I own a coffee shop and the employees don't always get 100%. For cash, yes its 100%. For CC they get around 97.8% (I pay 2.2% CC fees).
- mrguyorama 4y agoThe CC fees should be paid by the product or service transaction. Maybe it's legal but it's not cool that you are basically charging your employees for the right to get a tip from a credit card transaction you are already processing.
- Ekaros 4y agoSo, instead you should not accept CC and expect the employees being happy with higher take from tips and less tips in general as losing people paying by CC would result?
- mrguyorama 4y agoNo, instead a business owner should understand that if they want to process CCs, there are fees and they should pay them. Making your employees pay CC processing fees (which is what they are doing) is immoral. Simple as that. Stop being an entitled ass. If you want to run a business, you are required to do business things. It's not free lunch. My dad is an independent contractor. If he needs a new tool to finish a job for someone, he doesn't make them pay for the tool, because that's just what it means to run a business.
- 4y ago
- radicaldreamer 4y agoCash tips seem like the way to go primarily because you're not relying on the employer to calculate and distribute them to line employees and because they're not being reported as income and taxed. That might not be the "law", but that's pretty much de-facto what happens everywhere.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y ago> they're not being reported as income and taxed.That might not be the "law", but that's pretty much de-facto what happens everywhere In other words, it punishes the most virtuous; those higher on the spectrum unscrupulousness benefit the most. Not a good arrangement.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoFor tipped employees, most of whom are getting all their federal and state taxes back at refund time, giving them the money directly does nothing other than increase efficiency of the overall system because you cut a party out of it.
- radicaldreamer 4y agoIt also doesn't create a cash flow problem, which lower income people are more susceptible to. Even if you claim that most of these employees would get this money back in a tax refund, that doesn't help if they have bills to pay month-to-month.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y agoThat's not a response to what was written. The issue raised is whether this arrangement punishes honest actors and rewards dishonest ones. The answer is "yes, it does."
- thatguy0900 4y agoI think it's good if it normalizes not tipping. Unless you make under minimum wage I don't want to feel compelled to tip you unless you've actually done something noteworthy
- lgessler 4y agoIs there any empirical backing for this narrative? Some of this reads as pretty counter to intuition. Most suspicious in my mind is the core presupposition (not a contention, a presupposition--the article doesn't even argue for it!) that rich people will step up to the opportunity to fulfill their noble obligation to give more to the less wealthy. Having known some pretty stingy wealthy people (and some very generous blue-collar people), it's not obvious to me that this is true.
- bpodgursky 4y agoSeems anecdotally true to me that middle class+ people will mindlessly accept the 20% default grat, and budget-conscious people don't.
- ecommerceguy 4y agoHaving owned a bar in the past I can tell you right now the most wealthy people either didn't tip at all or very little. Fellow service industry people tipped the best.
- somuchfordonor 4y ago
- RHSeeger 4y agoI would argue it's more likely that most wealthy people that are the type to let you know they're wealthy either didn't tip at all or very little. There's plenty of wealthy people that tip very well, but many of them don't flaunt it in any way.
- ecommerceguy 4y agoI figured this would be a response. I knew just about everyone pretty well, it was in a very nice area of town and is a small rural community.
- 4y ago
- jareklupinski 4y agoThe Reservoir Dogs on Tipping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fbwwlHPtRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fbwwlHPtRM
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoBack then 12% was a standard tip and $1 was reasonable for a single person's meal. Simpler times...
- stuxnet79 4y agoThis never gets old. It was my introduction to the complexities of tipping in America. Learned quite a bit in that short exchange.
- wodenokoto 4y agoInteresting perspective on tipping. Never thought of it as price discrimination.
- baxuz 4y agoIt's not. 4% of the world's population hardly qualifies as "everywhere".
- krustyburger 4y agoArguing that new (or newly-conspicuous) PoS tipping is just a way to get price-insensitive spenders to pay more ignores the social dynamic which will cause many price-conscious customers to tip when they can’t really afford to or else to not tip and feel uncomfortable. In either case, these price-conscious customers are less likely to come back. But since this PoS tipping trend seems strongest in hip, gentrified shops, maybe they aren’t interested in having less well-off customers in the first place.
- ghaff 4y ago>new (or newly-conspicuous) PoS tipping Increasingly, in the US, people don't carry cash/coins with them. I might have a "just in case" $20 or two but I mostly don't have currency to cash tip which is probably one reason you see it appearing more on PoS devices.
- asdff 4y agoI feel like its just a feature thats on with default settings than a careful analysis of cash on hand of the average american by the restaurant owner. Anecdotally, you are more likely to have cash on hand if you frequent street food or weed dispensaries so it probably varies by local culture quite a lot.
- matai_kolila 4y agoMy worry is that this "asking for tips" trick is allowing employers to reclassify non-tipped positions as tipped positions that they can then substantially underpay, and not a lot of people know the laws that would force the company to match back to minimum wage if tips don't cover it. From a #teamchaos point of view I'm a little hopeful this new push is a bridge too far, and it gets us to rethink tipping culture.
- _ea1k 4y agoI get the feeling that is the goal for some establishments.
- codyb 4y agoI'll usually toss a buck or two if there's a tip jar. I'm not hurting, why not.
- maerF0x0 4y agoSome (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine. > makes them less competitive to any nearby coffeeshops that haven't raised prices Maybe I'm an outlier but for me I'm sick of the mental game of "Am I good member of society for the % I selected, and how much will my date judge me if I choose what used to be the norm -- 10%-15%... and am I the sucker if I choose a high amount while other people groups select low amounts?". Some of you may be too young to realize but there has been tip % inflation that is when combined with price inflation the tip amount has grown geometrically. To me a good customer service is I order my drink, I pay the stated price -- no more or less than the next person. Tipping makes me feel both guilty/ashamed and like a sucker knowing that certain groups of tip less. (and nothing to do with means) Why cant we just give employees dignity and a fair wage?
- lbriner 4y agoIt seems different in the US, where everyone is expected to tip as part of the overall price, like the article describes, and there is tipping Europe where the tip is not needed to boost the wage to an acceptable level but is simply to reward people who have gone above and beyond. In many restaurants in the UK, a "tip" is automatically included for large parties to reward the extra work required but can be removed on request if they didn't think your service was good.
- dheera 4y agoI live in the US and I HATE tipping. Just multiply all the menu items by 1.15, 1.18, 1.20, or whatever you need to ensure your wait staff is happy, and re-print the menu. Don't make ME have to bust out a calculator and do math after my meal, and then have to decide which of the above numbers I should use.
- pcurve 4y agoI always tip 20, but I honestly hate doing it for many reasons. I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee like in Italy. What you see in the menu is what your final will be. Eating out was cheap, fun, hassle free, and tasty.
- lenzm 4y ago> Deadweight loss happens when a person who is willing to pay more is charged less than the amount they're willing to pay. > Tom is willing to pay $6 for coffee and the shop only charges him $4, the deadweight loss is $2. That is a consumer surplus, not deadweight loss.
- foxbarrington 4y agoCame here to point that out as well. Deadweight loss is when the consumer surplus is lost because they are eaten by additional costs like taxes.
- jihadjihad 4y agoIndeed. Some credibility has been lost as well, given the source of TFA.
- ulber 4y agoThe argument the article makes is indeed a bit blunt. The idea here is that tipping enables better price discrimination, which in turn allows a higher "quantity" of coffee to be produced. With coffee shops that "quantity" will translate to things like 1) higher density or 2) more attractive placement of coffee shops, both of which increase coffee consumption by making it easier to pick one up, or 3) higher quality (think small batch) coffee being produced, which increases the quantity of labor being sold in a cup. I still don't enjoy this tipping culture, but the argument being made makes sense when you fill in the details.
- KptMarchewa 4y agoPlaces without enforced tipping culture still seem to have decent amount of coffee places.
- snowwrestler 4y agoThis is exactly how I think about tipping. I, and many friends and family, worked retail and food service jobs when we were young. Now I’m professionally successful and will not miss a couple extra bucks on a cup of coffee. So I’m happy to help boost the person serving it to me. I know it means way more to them than it does to me. This also explains why people (including me) get SO MAD if they find out that tips don’t actually go fully and directly to staff. See: DoorDash.
- sushid 4y agoNot defending what DD was doing there but whether it directly goes to the driver/server/cashier or not, you're still implicitly giving that money to the store owner/delivery company/restaurant by allowing them to get away with poor pay.
- reidjs 4y agoThis is why I always try to tip in cash, even when paying with a credit card. Higher chance of the tip actually going to the worker(s) and not their managers.
- soperj 4y agoI used to work shipping & receiving, where I got minimum wage, and didn't get a tip for anything. That's why I'm happy to let people working retail & food service jobs just do the work for their wage. See how that works?
- kdazzle 4y agoPeople working in restaurants in the US have a lower minimum wage than the rest of the country. So letting them do their work for like $3/hr doesnt really cut it
- lotsofpulp 4y agoNo, they do not. The employee is still owed the minimum wage, whether it be via tips or their employer if the tips do not add up to minimum wage. Also, quite a few jurisdictions do not have tipped minimum wages anymore. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
- aforty 4y agoWhat I really don’t understand are mandated tips. One of my favorite local bakeries implemented a 20% tip at checkout, whether paying cash, card or otherwise and then a screen comes up that allows you to tip extra. Just raise your prices at that point.
- mgkimsal 4y agowondering if it lets you account for that money separately. IIRC, 'tips' don't necessarily count as 'wages', and would be taxed differently. however, also, IIRC, automatic tips - like you described - aren't counted that way. so yeah, just raise your prices.
- focusedone 4y agoWait staff are not paid enough. At least in my state, the minimum wage for tip-accepting employees is horrific. I was a waiter twice and understand all of that so I always tip and try to be generous. Also, I'm pretty bad at math in my head so I usually guesstimate tips too high. A downside of tipping on the checkout systems I see is the baked in 15 / 20 / 25% options. OR tap custom and probably stand there like a moron for 5 extra seconds trying to figure out how to work the thing while the next person is waiting to order. SO I click 25% or whatever the top one is and get out of the way, but it's less than I'd normally have tipped. I hope overall it leads to servers / wait staff bringing home more. Anyway, as a former waiter with math insecurity issues there's my $.08 (inflation).
- _ea1k 4y agoThis isn't about wait staff who make the tip minimum wage, though. This is about fast food workers who make the regular minimum wage and get the tips as a sort-of bonus. From what I can tell, they are almost always pooled together, even across shifts in a lot of cases (for good reasons).
- pc86 4y agoI will happily tip 20-30% at restaurants without thinking about it, when there is even decent service (free-refill drinks refilled, server not overtly rude or clearly wishing they were elsewhere, etc). But this isn't about servers, it's about tipping having become expected or at least overtly requested in areas where it never was before. There's a Subway by my house that has the following options: 20%, 25%, 30%, custom, or skip. Before the advent of consumers swiping their own credit cards, no Subway employee received tips for anything. I will gladly tip someone $20 on a $60 meal because they're making less than $3/hr. I'll also vigorously support legislation and politicians that want to pay them a livable wage. I'll be damned if I'm tipping the Subway employee making $18/hr an extra $5 for the sandwich that took them all of 4 minutes to make. It's ridiculous.
- focusedone 4y agoAhhh good point. That totally makes sense. Still, even the subway worker isn't exactly making bank over there. It's not bad to have the option for tipping.
- maccam912 4y agoMy main grocery store does pick up, which I use, and flat out says no to tips, instead just adding a 2 dollar charge for doing pick up. Thats the main reason I shop at that one. If a coffee shop on my way home made it obvious they don't expect tips or even don't accept them, I'd gladly deal with the higher prices. Having someone else make the decision on what total price to me is not too expensive, but also not make me wonder if I'm being stingy, would entice me as a customer.
- andrewmutz 4y ago> Deadweight loss happens when a person who is willing to pay more is charged less than the amount they're willing to pay That's not what a dead weight loss is. DWL happens when transactions don't happen for some reason (like price controls) and people who would have benefitted from the transaction at the market price can't do so What the author describes is instead a situation where the consumer keeps the surplus, rather than the business. Regardless of how much a person tips, no wealth is being created or destroyed, it just affects moves from the consumer to the producer.
- zeroonetwothree 4y agoRight, what the author describes is a reduction in consumer surplus.
- andrewmutz 4y agoYes. I think its an important distinction because deadweight losses represent wealth that is lost to the world, whereas the surplus question is not about creating wealth, just moving it around. We should always strive to eliminate deadweight losses because it makes the world richer. Moving the surpluses around is not making the world richer and is just just redistribution.
- betaby 4y agoTipping is classism.
- mistercool 4y agoAssuming it's true that they receive a similar proportion of cash tips from cash purchases as digital tips from digital transactions, I wonder if the variability is substantially greater for cash tips. It seems reasonable to assume pre-selected tip amounts on Square would decrease variability, while cash purchases probably opt for (no tip, resulting coins from change, or bigger bills). The five or ten bill tips mentioned in the article seem awfully high for a coffee purchase... perhaps older, wealthier customers tend to pay cash and tip in bigger bills.
- PebblesRox 4y agoWith cash it's more convenient to tip based on the bills you have available vs with a fixed percentage. Maybe some regulars will give a large cash tip some days and a small or no tip on other days, with the idea that it'll even out in the end.
- titzer 4y agoI think the expansion of tipping, to the point where every point-of-sale machine is asking for it, is a dark pattern. I highly doubt that those tips go directly to employees, like restaurant tips would, but almost certainly directly to the shop. I'm cynical but I see these new places where tipping has showed up as a way shopowners backhandedly raise prices and depress employee wages. And given that there is basically no human interaction, not even eye contact involved in the transaction, I'm not doing it.
- spatley 4y agoIndividual experiences considered, the historical and contemporary experience of tipping brings problems on issues of both gender and race. Here is one well referenced article on the matter. https://onlabor.org/the-tipped-subminimum-wage-has-sexist-and-racist-origins-its-time-to-end-it/ https://onlabor.org/the-tipped-subminimum-wage-has-sexist-an... When employers attempt to shave labor costs by putting out a tip jar, the burden of that decision is not felt evenly across the staff.
- whycombinetor 4y agoMeanwhile in Italy, you will pay typically €1 for an espresso and €1.50 for a cappuccino. No option to tip. And the drink is ready 10 seconds after the 30 seconds that it takes the machine to extract after you order. No latte art and no waiting 5 minutes after you order only to realize they completely forgot to start making your drink _after you've already tipped them_. Back here in the States you will pay more than $1 in tip alone on top of a $4.50 cappuccino.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- danpalmer 4y ago> Maybe it just feels more awkward to non-tippers And that's the catch. If I go to a coffee shop and get asked to tip I'm less likely to use that coffee shop in the future. The less coffee shops pay, the more they will need to push tips (or the more the staff will do it anyway) and the more obnoxious the tipping prompts. Now I'm from a country that doesn't really do tipping, certainly not at any real volume in coffee shops, and I understand that pricing is a strong market force, but I think there's an unrecognised cost in goodwill to asking for tips. Given the focus on employee wellbeing that we've seen over the last couple of years, I think there's absolutely room in the market for companies that charge more, treat their employees well, and don't push tipping.
- strix_varius 4y agoThere's a particular French-inspired cafe near me that specifically doesn't accept tips - they don't even give you the option. Their apparent prices are much higher than comparable places (something that's $12 across the street might be $15 here). And they are always packed. I love going to this place. It's the only place that doesn't demand extra time, thought, work, money, and sometimes a calculator from me in order for me to enjoy a cup of coffee and a crepe by the window. On a totally different scale of spending, when my wife and I were choosing a resort for vacation, we specifically chose one that disallows - not discourages, but specifically disallows - tips. Because, for me, half of the point of a vacation is to spend a week not thinking about money, finances, budgeting, etc. Given the choice between an expensive "tips not allowed" place and a nominally-cheaper-but-not-really "tips encouraged" place, I'll choose the more expensive option every time.
- somenewaccount1 4y agoI find it ironic he is using coffee shop competition to prove his point, when in reality Starbucks did just that - charged higher prices, removed the tip jar, paid employees fairer and with health benefits....the crushed the competition to near oblivion. Asserting that we need to trick each other to have a fair economy of services is ridiculous.
- kdazzle 4y agoI don’t know about the low-wage, high-tipping argument. Having worked at a chain coffee shop, I was paid minimum wage and would usually make less than $1/hr in tips by the time it was split across everyone else. So maybe it works better for like 3rd wave coffee shops
- izzydata 4y agoIf there is no service then I am not going to add a tip. I think the most egregious one I've ever seen was at Panera Bread. The automatic machine where I didn't even talk to a person to enter my order asked me for a tip. I'm not going to be guilted into this nonsense tipping scheme. If they need more money then they can raise their prices and I will evaluate whether or not that is worth it to me prior to purchase.
- pmontra 4y agoThe interesting point is why tipping as wage evolved only (or almost only) in the USA and in the rest of the world is a way to say thank you the few times that service is worth a thank you. It's not that businesses all over the world don't compete on price with nearby businesses or that their wages are so high that their staff would leave the tip on the table.
- mihaic 4y agoBeing slightly more cynical now, I'm wondering if this push is merely the payment processor realizing they could increase their cut by shaming the customer into paying more. And I don't believe we can measure this purely financially, as simply not tipping in a coffeeshop with a tablet now comes with a bigger sentiment of shame, which is especially levied on the ones for which that extra 20% actually matters.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoI always assumed that was it. The tip for paying at a counter started when clover and other touch tablet point of sale systems came around. Some genius figured out that asking people to write down a tip on a receipt and signing it was too much friction and off putting, but on a touch screen, where a tap takes a fraction of a second and zero effort, at least some people would not mind hitting the tip button. And it worked beautifully.
- asdff 4y agoAlso there is the psychological factor of the staff member watching the ipad screen the entire time, and looking at it again immediately after you are done. Like are you going to put zero and have them think "Fuck you cheap asshole" or are you going to be guilt tripped into throwing $3 away that the staff member might not even see? It taps into the same moral dilemma as a beggar accosting you on the street.
- willnonya 4y agoThe truth is that it's praying on the stupid. I'll pay a tip for service, not for someone that poured coffee in a cup and handed to me. The concern about price sensitivity is real but that doesn't mean rasing prices and getting rid of tipping can't be managed and successful. If there is a demand for the product then you communicate this to the customer. Dropping tipping and failing to communicate how it changes prices is simply asking to fail.
- 3qz 4y ago
- ozzythecat 4y ago> The cost of eliminating some deadweight loss is making some people feel awkward or shame when they get to the tip screen. 90% of the places I’ve recently visited displayed a tip screen, and I’ve tipped maybe 5% or even 0%. I’m alright with tipping properly if I sit down at your restaurant and you serve me food, with reasonable service. I will not tip you 25-20%, if I drive in and picked up my food myself, and all you did was hand me the food at the counter. Unfortunately, nearly every restaurant and eatery has this expectation in my area. They give you no service other than literally just giving you the food, and then they want a tip. I should feel pressure or feel bad I’m not paying you extra? Nah. If anything, I find this behavior appalling, and we avoid eating out. The food isn’t great for my blood pressure and diabetes anyway, and we’re better off saving or investing it for our grandchildren.
- dangerface 4y ago> If a coffeeshop wants to pay their employees more they will have to raise prices. This makes them less competitive to any nearby coffeeshops that haven't raised prices. You what? I can buy coffee from McDonalds for a pound, or I can get the nicer stuff from a barista for £3 the coffee is the same brown warm stuff the environment and customer service is what makes it worth the extra money. Coffee is a luxury good trying to be the cheapest coffee isn't a winning strategy. It's like trying to make the cheapest super car. It's a race to the bottom larger companies that have scale will destroy you. Managers do this all the time hire a bunch of 16 year olds pay them next to nothing and wonder why they spend all their time on their phone rather than impressing the customers and winning recurring business. BuT LoOk HoW MuCh MoNeY I SaVeD! :^)
- bitwize 4y agoThe same reason why paid television or streaming services eventually grow ads: it's hard to say no to extra money.
- newZWhoDis 4y agoI have a crazy idea for this: legally mandate that any business that excepts tipping must allow negative tipping, up to the same max percentage the positive tip can be. Places that are high-end/service oriented will then allow tips, because the vast majority of customers will. Maybe even your local fancy bar would ban you for leaving a -10% tip. But subway? They’ll turn that off immediately because almost everyone will hit “-10%” given the chance. This one trick would clean up the entire space overnight
- Beaver117 4y agoI would LOVE to see this. Does anyone here have the connections to get this written into law?
- stevenhubertron 4y agoIt's not the rich people tipping though....
- rufus_foreman 4y agoI don’t tip because society says I have to. Alright, I mean I’ll tip if somebody really deserves a tip. If they really put forth the effort, I’ll give them something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I’m concerned, they’re just doing their job.
- asdff 4y agoCash tips are always superior when tips are actually applicable. If its just on a POS system I never tip. If I am expected to tip before service is rendered I also won't tip, since how can I possibly know what to tip if I haven't received the service yet? For cash tips you can wait until service is rendered no matter whatever shitty POS service the restaurant owner contacted with, plus there is no risk of the restaurant owner pilfering from the tip jar if the money goes directly from your hand to your intended recipient, and taxes are de facto eliminated.
- kylehotchkiss 4y agoI keep seeing tip prompts for store purchases that don’t even involve prepared food. Oddly they have like 1%, 3%, 5% as options.
- uhtred 4y ago2 reasons this pisses me off more than it should: 1) Tipping a fast food restaurant for simply doing the thing I am already paying them for (making the food and handing it to me over the counter) is fucking ridiculous. There was no table service involved. 2) These scumbag business owners are trying to make us consumers pay their employees the wages THEY should be paying them. I pay you for the product/service.... YOU should pay your employees a fair wage with that money.
- Ekaros 4y agoWhy not expand tipping to other services? Let's say police stopping you for speeding. The judge and prosecutor in court. Or maybe the border personnel. Aren't those people providing you personalised service and you should be happy to give them little extra for their hard and under appreciated work?