15 ms·

Wiring my home with fiber

599 points by sschueller 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
uri4 4y ago
I wonder what is use case for this network. At my home I only use optics for long run, more for galvanic isolation, as electric charge could destroy electronics. All servers are concentrated in single room. Clients use miniPCs. Rest of the house is wired with 2.5Gb ethernet and wifi6, anything faster and expenses grow exponentially.
- screamingninja 4y ago
  I second this. ~$1375 vs under $200 for an Ethernet run. Expensive project just to be able to say "I did it".
  - SamuelAdams 4y ago
    Not every hobby has to be cost optimized. I’ve spent thousands on climbing equipment that I never took full advantage of. Sometimes people have money to burn and want to do something for the fun of it.
    - sponaugle 4y ago
      Hobbies are almost by definition not cost optimized!
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        Some are, like growing your own food or backpacking.
        RealStickman_ 4y ago
        You'd earn more money by working overtime and buying food from the supermarket instead of spending time growing it yourself.
        Symbiote 4y ago
        That depends on the food. My parents mostly grew fruit, and berries especially are very expensive at the supermarket. The other things they grew were also equal or better to the most expensive produce at the most luxury supermarket, like tomatoes that tasted of tomato rather than the watery, red golf balls they sell in Asda.
  - megous 4y ago
    > "Ability to utilize 25gbit internet connection"
  - bmitc 4y ago
    There are other benefits of fiber, such as transmitting non-Ethernet signals such as USB, DisplayPort, HDMI, etc. You can run these things over Ethernet, but they are really shoddy and unreliable. It allows you to centralize more things. For example, you could just have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and a hub in a room for a computer, where the computer is actually somewhere else (such as a server room).
- heffer 4y ago
  I think one major use case in this particular scenario is that the author has one 25 Gbit/s and one 10 Gbit/s internet service. If you want to make the most use of this fibre is the only way to go.
  - uri4 4y ago
    I do data processing and can saturate similar bandwidth. But 10Gbps goes to my home server room. There is no need to have 10Gb in bedroom, such tech produces a lot of noise and heat. Maybe Stadia or similar video streaming could use such bandwidth. But this looks more like wiring for residential building with multiple flats, or office building. Or like some sort of tech flex.
    - culturestate 4y ago
      > There is no need to have 10Gb in bedroom …until later in the home’s life when that bedroom is no longer a bedroom, for whatever reason. If you’re gonna do a project like this you might as well take it to its logical conclusion. It’s the same kind of advice I’d give to anyone who buys e.g. an iPad Pro - you might not think you need a cellular model right now, but that one time you do need it two years from now you’re gonna be very glad that you paid the extra ~$100.
      - ComputerGuru 4y ago
        That’s some very hypothetical talk. The master bedroom in a typical home is likely and forever going to remain a bedroom, at least if there is sufficient other space available in the home. If you buy a couple of iPads (you and your spouse or kids or whatever) and upgrade them every x years, springing for an extra $100 on each one every time adds up. You never need the cellular module, though it might be nice to have since there are always other, less convenient options (hotspot on phone, standalone hotspot, public Wi-Fi, etc). You cannot take your mantra to its logical conclusion and apply it to everything, everywhere, at least not unless cost is absolutely a non-issue for you.
        4y ago
- avidiax 4y ago
  It's very likely "because he can". 25Gbps would be hard to saturate with an NVME SSD. Even if you like to mirror hard disks to remote locations all the time, you can just RSYNC, and then your needs are limited to the rate of change. I'm getting a 10Gbps from the same provider, and even that is not likely to saturate, and I'll only have 1Gbps CAT6 links. The main benefit is that the clients are absolutely independent, i.e. downloading a Linux image can't affect someone's video conference, since each client can only pull 1Gbps of 10Gbps total.
  - jnsaff2 4y ago
    Well that multiple client fairness gets solved by using something like CAKE. There are youtube demos doing exactly this even with links limited to like a few meg.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  The author's ISP delivers up to 25/25Gbps connections (and 10gbps connections for the same price as 1gbps connections, about $65 dollars per month converted) so if he is planning on using such a high bandwidth uplink, I don't think ethernet makes a lot of sense. If I had a 10gbps uplink for that price, I'd certainly look into getting more out of my network than just standard ethernet. 10gbit ethernet at least, though fiber may be easier to install depending on the size and layout of the house.
  - Salgat 4y ago
    I have 1gbps fiber and it's extremely rare for me to come across a server that supports anything close to that bandwidth. At 10gbps you're able to upload 500GB/hour. For home use this seems extremely unlikely, even if you're using this as part of your job. Even my 4K surveillence cameras only require 20mbps each, that's 50 4k cameras to saturate a 1gbps line.
    - spaceywilly 4y ago
      Have to think about the future though when you’re dealing with running stuff in walls. Think about what would’ve been acceptable throughput 10 years ago. If you built your home network around that, you’d probably be kicking yourself today.
      - Salgat 4y ago
        Even CAT5e supports 10gbps in your typical house (you'll want CAT6 for longer distances though), and 10gbps is likely future proof for the next 25 years (which is crazy because CAT5e came out in 1999).
        popcalc 4y ago
        And ipv6 came out a year before that.
    - dale_glass 4y ago
      I think of >1 GBps speeds as something that serves burst rather than streaming needs. The use case isn't "I need it to watch youtube", but "I want to be able to restore from backup in hours rather than days", or "I want to play the latest Doom today and not tomorrow". Eg, say you're backing up your data to a remote site. Great idea, but what if you need a restore, how long will that take? Downloading say, 100 TB on a 1 Gbps connection will take you more than a week.
- bombcar 4y ago
  10Gb normal CAT whatever Ethernet works but the SPF adapters get quite hot. I have a 10Gb backbone for my “servers” and then a single 10Gb Ethernet cable to my main Mac- works well enough for now and probably not worth upgrading until I have internet beyond 10Gb.
runjake 4y ago
This article is great overall, but there is some stuff you should do differently, if you're wanting to follow in the author's footsteps: 1. Just use UPC connectors everywhere unless you have really good reasons not to. 2. Use single mode fiber (SMF) everywhere, including internal wiring. SMF is infinitely scalable for future needs, multimode (MMF) is not. These days the cost differences for cabling and optics is negligible. In fact, SMF cabling is often cheaper than MMF. And no, you generally won’t have to worry about attenuating signal. Also, in my extensive experience, FS.com optics modules are typically better manufactured and more reliable than OEM modules. I resisted the "cheap chinese" modules for a long, long time, but then discovered that most of my uplink carriers used them. It's been years now. I've had many Cisco OEM, Dell OEM, and a couple from another 3rd party manufacturer go bad, but I have yet for one FS.com SFP to go bad. I've got several hundred deployed in a wide variety of environments, from great (cool, clean areas) to bad (hot, dirty areas).
- sponaugle 4y ago
  Fiber is, as runjake mentioned, very very cheap. The raw cost is less than copper, and that is part of why I ran so much of it in my build. (I am not the OP). I did however include some multimode in that equation only because some AV equipment uses is, and not all of them use replaceable optics modules. I would strongly agree that if you are running fiber, run single mode everywhere. It is amazing how far singlemode fiber can go compared to copper if you are willing to spend money on the endpoints.
  - yakak 4y ago
    What kind of equipment outlay was necessary if you don't mind my asking? I.e. the splicer the OP bought seems a bit expensive and impractical to own compared to an ethernet crimper, etc.
    - conk 4y ago
      I just ordered the length I needed from fs.com. Granted I only have a single run between 2 switches home<->garage. I ran the fiber in a PVC conduit. Put a 4”x4” pvc junction box in the run with a couple feet excess coiled inside because my measurements were a little off. At the termination of the runs I have fiber keystone jacks and I can extend/replace the last bit if I need to move equipment.
orliesaurus 4y ago
For those wondering, as the OP didn't mention it super-clearly imho - but his internet provider is able to do 25gbit [1] for CHF 69 a month (+ CHF ~340 set up cost) CHF 1 ~= USD 1 these days Question for OP: Why did you build such an expensive "router" - you justify it by saying you also want to run PiHole, but you probably could have done this whole setup much cheaply [1] https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/ https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/
- sschueller 4y ago
  The router is more of a server. Pihole is just an example (and yes a $35 pi would be plenty for it) but I have many old servers running all kinds of other things so I decided to update and consolidate some of this.
  - minus7 4y ago
    Good joke, there are no $35 pis
    - sschueller 4y ago
      I made this telegram bot[1] a while back that uses rpilocator.com and will notify you as soon as one is available from an official reseller. Those resellers should be selling them at the regular price. But yes, if you want to buy one right now, it won't be $35. [1] https://github.com/sschueller/rpilocatorbot https://github.com/sschueller/rpilocatorbot
    - ComputerGuru 4y ago
      Meh. It’s (supposedly) a transient situation that’ll resolve in due time. More importantly, I and many geeks I know but/bought several when a new model first comes out because they are (were) cheap but electronics wholesalers don’t offer free shipping so it makes sense to buy as many as you think you’ll use (until the next one comes out) in one go to minimize the amortized cost. I miscalculated and ended up using all of mine, but I have friends that still have some of their stock.
  - 4y ago
sponaugle 4y ago
Nice read, and great work on the terminations. I did an extensive amount of both fiber and CAT6A in my recent house build, totally about 21 miles together. I did a mixture of single mode and multimode only because of some AV device support for multimode, and because all of it was so cheap compared to the labor and time. I ended up with significant fiber runs between the MDF and IDF closets, the server room, and all of the AV endpoints which is a typical layout. I did run single mode fiber to all 18 wireless AP access-point locations, but I suspect those will not get used much given I also have 2 CAT6A shielded wires to each AP that can support 10G AND provided power. I do use a direct fiber connection in my office to provide 10G to my network core from that desktop, but that could have been done over copper as well. Perhaps the biggest gain over copper is my switch interconnects which are 40G from the upstairs closet to the server room. If needed it would be easy to upgrade those to 100G, and since there are 24 strands available you really could expand as far as you are every going to need to go with WDM and the like. The one really good use case for only fiber was running it down my driveway to our gate, which is about a 1/4 mile in distance. That is something that would be more challenging to do with copper. [although I do have copper installed]. From my perspective the cost of running fiber was almost 0 compared to the entire project because so much more cost is involved in path finding and clearing ( cutting holes, etc), and the actual pulling. I was very fortunate to have a large group of friends who spent a couple of days working with me to do the large pulls, combined with many weeks of evenings and weekends doing the rest myself. Many hands makes that task much much easier. My particular build is documented in a build thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-side-shop-portland.409988/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-s...
- JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  I can’t wait to digest this later on a desktop. Thanks for sharing it and documenting it. 21 miles! Reminds me of the guy’s house in Ex Machina.
- spockz 4y ago
  What kind of house needs 18 AP? Was this in an existing house or an house being constructed?
joelhaasnoot 4y ago
I learnt a lot of these things the hard way - this is a good resource describing the different connectors and what they mean
jonatron 4y ago
You'd think simplex short boot LC would be able to get through small conduit. Although you can always stick the fusion splicer on eBay, it's not like it's worthless now.
- sponaugle 4y ago
  Yes, I did some pulls with pre-termed LCs since the LCs are so small. They were easy to pull and worked fantastic.
edude03 4y ago
I'm in the middle of running fiber in my house as well but much less elaborate than OP. I bought a few 100m MPO terminated cables off eBay, a few MPO to LC splitters from FS.com and a few 100m capable optics from eBay and fs.com. All my switches have sfp ports so it was pretty straight forward
- sokoloff 4y ago
  100m?! How big is your house?
kube-system 4y ago
Is the equipment used for termination more expensive than the splicing equipment? I just use premade MMF in my house.
- sschueller 4y ago
  I have no experience with terminating connectors directly. There appear to be all kinds available, even ones with gel inside them but they suffer a lot more loss than if I splice a fiber. Using the splicer gave me the flexibility to splice pig-tail ends or just two fibers together with a small loss.
  - archi42 4y ago
    From what I read (never tried and not my area of expertise) for our short runs at home loss isn't that big of an issue, especially for 10km transceivers.
  - mrb 4y ago
    I have no experience either. But terminating seems easy, for example this guy is terminating singlemode fiber in just a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKDYw0jPskc&t=2m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKDYw0jPskc&t=2m35s He uses DINTEK Singlemode ezi-FIBER Connectors which have a low loss of 0.1-0.2 dB: https://www.dintek.com.tw/index.php/singlemode-ezi-fiber-connector.html https://www.dintek.com.tw/index.php/singlemode-ezi-fiber-con... Such a low loss seems to be a non-issue for short fiber runs in a single residence, and cheaper than using a fusion splicer.
    - sschueller 4y ago
      My loss per splice was around 0.01 dB to 0.02 dB according to the splicer.
      - mrb 4y ago
        Your 10G SFP modules have a power budget of 6.2 dB https://www.fs.com/products/11603.html https://www.fs.com/products/11603.html Assuming zero losses at the fusion-spliced pigtail connectors this would be enough for a ~12.4 km fiber link (~0.5 dB attenuation per km). With the connectors I linked, 0.2 dB loss at each end, the power budget is reduced to 5.8 dB which would be enough for a ~11.6 km fiber link. As you see this makes no difference for a residence where all your links are much shorter than even 0.1 km ! All I'm saying is you had cheaper options than buying a fusion splicer. But I understand you for buying it — it's a cool tool to have fun with, and to get some experience. I would have probably done the same since fiber is also a hobby of mine (though I reiterate I have never built a cable myself) :)
mr_sturd 4y ago
I always end up green with envy that people seem to have pre-existing conduits in their walls for running new cables. There's no way, in my old house, of doing this without some invasive smashing in to walls.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  An attic or unfinished basement can make this much easier
- yakubin 4y ago
  I've watched the video and I still don't understand how you get the wire through the conduit though. Part of the video seemed to happen through telekinesis: the part where a wire magically came out of the wall, allowing you to pull from the other side.
  - js2 4y ago
    I'm not sure which video you mean, but you use either a fish tape or a pull line. I know that Verizon also has fiber with a stiffer jacket that they can push through conduit a pretty good distance. I know this because I helped the Verizon installer run FIOS at my daughter's apartment in a building that was over 100 years old. The conduit had a crimp in it so it took the two of us a while to get past that.
    - sschueller 4y ago
      Probably referring to this demonstration video regarding the FTTH Squeeze plate where the pull line comes flying through the conduit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSpp4B9-X4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSpp4B9-X4
      - js2 4y ago
        That's a fish tape being pushed through from the other end.
  - 4y ago
runjake 4y ago
Although this stuff is all mundane to me (network engineer), it was a long, fun read about a layman dipping his toe^W entire leg up to the armpits in networking.
kkfx 4y ago
While I like the idea I do not like much fiber or to be more precise their live stuff, since they degrade far faster than copper. A copper switch might work well for 10+ years, and since at home we normally not need such extreme performances and these days 2.5GBE on cat 8.1 copper are relatively cheap and common... Sure, it's very "blinkenlichten" but...
- awestroke 4y ago
  Fiber degradation is a problem after 30-40 years, not really something to take into consideration
- detaro 4y ago
  What exactly degrades in a fiber setup?
  - kkfx 4y ago
    The active apparatus. Not the fiber, but still a cost issue.
mschuster91 4y ago
> My ISP plans on proving 100gbits in about 2 years so I don’t need pull new fiber if I decide to upgrade. Jesus. Meanwhile, here in Germany, right in the center of Munich the best I can get is 100/40, because while there is FTTB buildout, the last 20m in the building go through the telephone wiring from the late 80s.
- bombcar 4y ago
  If you really want it, and are willing to pay, you can often negotiate with the building owner to get the last 20m run (up to and including conduit hidden on the outside of the building, etc). If enough people in the building care, it might even be relatively cheap.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    The latter is the problem. Half the people in the building are old, the other half of them are happy with the way it is - I'm the only IT guy. Might be possible to pull fiber through the conduits, but not sure if the Mnet FTTB box can actually give me fiber - I think it's a miniature DSLAM only.
    - namibj 4y ago
      Mnet should be able to CWDM (of they don't just have a fiber to spare for it) you a link on the DSLAM's fiber uplink. Provided the building owner allows the fiber from the DSLAM to you. They could also put an Ethernet switch needy to the DSLAM so more people could share one uplink connection.
shmerl 4y ago
> In order to use the SFP+ modules you need the correct PCIe cards on your PC Are there good SFP+ USB 4 adapters that work on Linux? One of the bad trends in recent motherboards is minimal number of PCIe slots, which are very clearly focused on GPUs only. So basically there is no room for any extra devices. Their idea seems to be pushing everyone to USB 4 for use cases like that (which supposedly should be able to route even PCIe?).
- sschueller 4y ago
  I only know of this thunderbolt version but I do not know how the linux support is. https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.... . For SFP28 there seems to be nothing available at this time that would work via USB.
  - shmerl 4y ago
    Thanks! They seem to be listing Linux. Would it work with USB 4? Whole Thunderbolt / USB situation is somewhat confusing.
dekhn 4y ago
Thanks- I rarely consider upgrading my home systems until I think I have a good understanding of all the details and I see that fiber is still a mess (have to choose single mode versus multi mode and a number of other details).
minus7 4y ago
I also installed fiber a while ago after being told "this isn't hard" by Michael Stapelberg's post [1]. Luckily I managed to get by with patch cables; a 30m cables really goes a long way! I even managed to get a duplex LC through a 16mm conduit with a pretty tight 90° bend, but just with lube, quite some force and luck. I can just recommend going for it if you're curious. Cables and tranceivers really aren't expensive from fs.com (though their sales people may start bothering you). Edit: And old, used network cards from ebay, of course. [1]: https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-home-network/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-ho...
- archi42 4y ago
  Kudos for pulling those through these small conduits :) For anyone trying to emulate this: I would very much NOT recommend using 16mm conduits for LC duplex patch cables. It's doable for some short/straight runs, but the connectors like to get stuck in bends. For me it was the final r=3cm bend in a ~20m conduit. I ended up pulling Cat7 into that conduit and routed the fiber through a tree-like network of wider backup conduits. Since the backup conduit ends up in the wrong corner of the room, I might one day 1. cut the 30m fiber patch cable, 2. pull it into the original 16mm conduit (w/o connectors), replacing the Cat7 and 3. splice the fiber again. Using a "mechanical splice" that should be doable quite cheaply, but I didn't yet get around to learning/practicing that.
  - minus7 4y ago
    You can also use a pre-polished connector instead of splicing e.g.: https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/35165.html https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/35165.html (there's instructions if you scroll down)
yrgulation 4y ago
This is likely not useful in most west european homes (even gigabit connections are unheard of in the uk, 10 megs being advertised as “superfast”, let alone tens of gigs). But still a fun project!
- voidwtf 4y ago
  They'll eventually be dragged into the future by requirement, 1GbE is already standard on most equipment, with 2.5GbE and 1+gbit wifi becoming more common on consumer equipment. The increasing reliance of on-demand delivery of various forms of content, from multimedia to gaming, is already pushing 100Mbps connections to where 10Mbps connections were less than 5 years ago. I think its worth choosing fiber in a new deployment, at least at the distribution level (between floors, or zones of the home). Most new computers come with ultra fast solid state storage, so even between systems on a local network, 10GbE speeds could be useful. With the way the price of copper is going, and how much less efficient rj45/copper chipsets are compared to optical, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a shift to optical as a replacement to rj45 in the next decade.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    At a time when more internet developed countries are moving towards 10gb connections, the uk is moving towards 1gb. Instead of playing catch it should lead. Now if only there were competent people in power.
- eertami 4y ago
  That's because the UK is way behind mainland Europe in this regard. My previous house in a very busy area of London had 80mbps max... However in a small town in Switzerland we have 25Gbps available. The UK could be in this position, but Thatcher happened unfortunately, and the project was canned.
- matthewmacleod 4y ago
  About 70% of UK homes have access to a gigabit connection through either fibre or the Virgin Media HFC network. FTTP coverage is about 40% nationwide. It’s not that rare.
Makobado1 4y ago
yuvadam 4y ago
Awesome project, I did something very similar at home, but used fiber only to connect switches and routers around the house. PoE is still a must for powering wireless access point and perimeter security cameras.
- alberth 4y ago
  PoE is a huge reason why CAT-x cabling will be around for a long time.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blinded 4y ago
nice article, fun project. I did cat 6e. Was gonna do fiber but my telco and modem dont support above 1 gig. but on the lan its 10g.
rr808 4y ago
Wiring for me has been a waste of time. I spent a good amount of time wiring the house with cat 6 cabling. I had our TV on a hard wired network which felt great, no drop outs, no wifi noise. I then bought a roku box and left on wifi for a while. Its still on wifi, works great and kept it there. Family mostly uses wifi now, no PCs using the hard-won ethernet jacks.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Ya, my house is wired for cat5 but no point to use it. It just isn’t necessary.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    To my surprise, my parents use the Cat5 cables I installed in their house 20+ years go. In a brick house, wireless isn't a good choice for desktop computers and smart TVs.
moogly 4y ago
I did this as a small-scale experiment/proof-of-concept earlier this year in my 2 br apartment, preparing for wiring for 10G (and possibly beyond as the years pass) when I move into my house later this. I went with singlemode fiber. Don't really see the point of multimode. At all. After doing some research I am not sure who it is made for. Sure, the BiDi SFP+ modules are a bit more expensive but not overly so. The fiber is cheaper. It's easier to splice/use field assembly connectors if needed. Much easier to hide the cables. If you go with 0.9 mm you can even hide it in nooks and crannies under door trim etc. It is future proof. SMF will always be supported. Now the only problem is that the Mikrotik CRS routers I want to get are either out of stock or have insanely inflated prices. Seems to still be affected by component shortages. I already have a couple of CRS305 and some CCS610, but I'm going to need more of those now plus a CRS309 to scale it all up.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  I think back 15 years or so ago, multimode fibre and optics were quite substantially cheaper. Given that you could still get several hundred metres to over a kilometer with the slower speeds available at the time, it probably was worthwhile. But by the time I got into fibre stuff SMF was not much more expensive, so I've always just used it by default.
- max51 4y ago
  >I went with singlemode fiber. Don't really see the point of multimode. At all. After doing some research I am not sure who it is made for. They are cheaper and and you don't need the extra range of single mode if you are only wiring your house/apartment.
Klasiaster 4y ago
Meanwhile the wifi router I got from my provider maxes out at ~5 MB/s for local transfer between two devices…
- ezfe 4y ago
  Well that's stupid - don't pay to rent those shitty boxes (unless it's free, I suppose)
Faaak 4y ago
3M sells fusion-less APC and UPC connectors that you can insert into any (well cut) fiber. I used them to fiber my home too without using a fusion machine. I was really dubious at first but they work really well
vegasbrianc 4y ago
Great article. Amazing the publishers first blog post and front page of HN. Well done ;)
- sschueller 4y ago
  Thank you and the others who also submitted it as originally this post was flagged. Probably because I changed the title after submitting it to "Show HN" but I am unsure. I am glad now that I spent the time to put it on github.io and not on some old server of mine that would have been hugged to death.
  - divbzero 4y ago
    With your 10gbit+ connections serving static files from an old server would probably work just fine!
DeathArrow 4y ago
Is there a cheap as in < $1000 router with 10GbE (for fiber or copper) ports?
- nullify88 4y ago
  Mikrotik has some very affordable & capable routers under $1000 with SPF or SPF+. Depends on how many ports, but they'd start with RB5009UG+S+IN which has a suggested retail price of $219.
  - DeathArrow 4y ago
    Thanks I will give Mikrotik a look.
- avidiax 4y ago
  https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs You pay the SFP module tax on every port for that model, and also have a loud fan. You also probably can't put a copper SFP module in every cage without overheating. https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009upr_s_in https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009upr_s_in That will let you receive 10Gbps fiber, and maybe route 3Gbps or so. No fans. No SFP module tax. And PoE on every port. Mikrotik is definitely missing a product that has maybe 1 SFP28 port, 1 SFP+ port, 4 10GBps ports and 5 2.5Gbps ports. That would let you take in 25Gbps fiber, have a 10Gbps fiber run to a switch someplace, and run 10Gbps ethernet as needed.
  - DeathArrow 4y ago
    I need 10Gbps in, two 10Gbps out and another 1Gbit out if it doesn't have WiFi.
    - fulafel 4y ago
      Routing performance is often lower than switching/bridging performance.
    - avidiax 4y ago
y04nn 4y ago
10 Gbps is really a game changer if you have large quantity of data to transfer (multiple terabytes), but 10G cards and equipment are power hungry so I only put out a dangling fiber one in a while to make a backup but the speed is appreciable. Also I'm still looking for a solution setup a ~200m link, Ethernet and WLAN are not an option, so I'm only left with fiber, 1Gbps would be sufficient, but I won't be able to do it myself because of the price of a splicer. I thought about asking an installer to do the splicing for me, it shouldn't be that expensive, maybe on day.
- yuvadam 4y ago
  Any reason you can't use pre-terminated fiber?
  - y04nn 4y ago
    I have to pass the fiber cable through conduits that are not very large and they are not straight. So I will need to use a pull line. Using pre-terminated fiber will either bock or destroy the connector.
    - yuvadam 4y ago
      A single LC connector (used on a bidi transceiver) has no problem going through 16mm conduit
    - dale_glass 4y ago
      Duplex LC connectors can be split apart and later reassembled. With a bit of fiddling and taping things you can get a cable through a hole that's too small for an assembled duplex. https://www.flukenetworks.com/sites/default/files/blog/101_series_know_your_fiber_connectors_3_1.png https://www.flukenetworks.com/sites/default/files/blog/101_s... http://www.fiber-optic-cable-sale.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Simplex-duplex-LC-connector.jpg http://www.fiber-optic-cable-sale.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
      - y04nn 4y ago
fifteenforty 4y ago
Does anyone have any more info on Huawei’s FTTR concept? https://www.huawei.com/en/technology-insights/inspiration-lab/fttr-solution https://www.huawei.com/en/technology-insights/inspiration-la... To me it looks like just standard, modern bend insensitive single mode fibre but in a clear jacket.
irusensei 4y ago
Is fiber overall less power hungry than twisted pair or copper? Asking for solar rural aspirations deep into my mind. I like the idea of it not being conductive thus not vulnerable to electrical discharges.
pabs3 4y ago
I wonder if this is on an active or passive incoming fibre connection.
tristor 4y ago
I ran fiber between the network core and my bedroom (which housed my home lab) at my parents old house circa 2004, because I got access to cheap fiber and a fusion splicer through school at the time. I’ve never run fiber since because the usefulness of POE outweighs any benefits fiber might bring and STP is good enough in home environments.
Maursault 4y ago
25Gb Internet? Bandwidth in the US sucks! But I have to admit I have trouble saturating 35Mb, and I'd happily pay half as much for 10Mb or 5Mb if it were available. Also, tablets would be pretty annoying without wifi.
Dblue 4y ago
Do it in a different way that will makes it latest
alanwreath 4y ago
I recently had my home wired with cat8. In the back of my head I had wondered if anyone was doing fiber instead. Nice to see this write up of your journey. I wonder what convinced you to go this route, like some of the benefits up and above just regular Ethernet. I’ve noticed ad’s like the one in this page https://shop.fibercommand.com/pages/applications-home-builders https://shop.fibercommand.com/pages/applications-home-builde... And wondered if it was fake or not.
angry_octet 4y ago
Contrary to what the author and others have written, I would discourage wiring with single mode (SM). For ethernet the cost of modules and patches might not seem so significant, but structured fiber can be used for things other than ethernet, for which SM is vastly more expensive than multimode (MM). Think 4k display port for cinema/follow-me TV, although that is being replaced with SDVoE for 4k@60. However, you do want to use higher quality OM3 or OM4 MM cable (aqua or violet sheath). If required you can carry SM origin signals over OM3/4 by using a mode conditioning patch cable. In terms of pulling, a lubed cable sock can get through lots of places, and save a ton on termination. Cablers often use a strip of yellow tongue (the nylon tongue on chipboard flooring panels) to poke through a run, and then run a conduit or pull cord. Pre terminated MPO/MPT (which is 12 core) and MPT breakout fans are very cheap in comparison to splicing. It's generally much cheaper to run more fiber than it is to run conduit so you can run more fiber.

599 points by sschueller 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

uri4 4y ago

I wonder what is use case for this network. At my home I only use optics for long run, more for galvanic isolation, as electric charge could destroy electronics. All servers are concentrated in single room. Clients use miniPCs. Rest of the house is wired with 2.5Gb ethernet and wifi6, anything faster and expenses grow exponentially.

screamingninja 4y ago
I second this. ~$1375 vs under $200 for an Ethernet run. Expensive project just to be able to say "I did it".
- SamuelAdams 4y ago
  Not every hobby has to be cost optimized. I’ve spent thousands on climbing equipment that I never took full advantage of. Sometimes people have money to burn and want to do something for the fun of it.
  - sponaugle 4y ago
    Hobbies are almost by definition not cost optimized!
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      Some are, like growing your own food or backpacking.
      - RealStickman_ 4y ago
        You'd earn more money by working overtime and buying food from the supermarket instead of spending time growing it yourself.
        Symbiote 4y ago
        That depends on the food. My parents mostly grew fruit, and berries especially are very expensive at the supermarket. The other things they grew were also equal or better to the most expensive produce at the most luxury supermarket, like tomatoes that tasted of tomato rather than the watery, red golf balls they sell in Asda.
- megous 4y ago
  > "Ability to utilize 25gbit internet connection"
- bmitc 4y ago
  There are other benefits of fiber, such as transmitting non-Ethernet signals such as USB, DisplayPort, HDMI, etc. You can run these things over Ethernet, but they are really shoddy and unreliable. It allows you to centralize more things. For example, you could just have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and a hub in a room for a computer, where the computer is actually somewhere else (such as a server room).
heffer 4y ago
I think one major use case in this particular scenario is that the author has one 25 Gbit/s and one 10 Gbit/s internet service. If you want to make the most use of this fibre is the only way to go.
- uri4 4y ago
  I do data processing and can saturate similar bandwidth. But 10Gbps goes to my home server room. There is no need to have 10Gb in bedroom, such tech produces a lot of noise and heat. Maybe Stadia or similar video streaming could use such bandwidth. But this looks more like wiring for residential building with multiple flats, or office building. Or like some sort of tech flex.
  - culturestate 4y ago
    > There is no need to have 10Gb in bedroom …until later in the home’s life when that bedroom is no longer a bedroom, for whatever reason. If you’re gonna do a project like this you might as well take it to its logical conclusion. It’s the same kind of advice I’d give to anyone who buys e.g. an iPad Pro - you might not think you need a cellular model right now, but that one time you do need it two years from now you’re gonna be very glad that you paid the extra ~$100.
    - ComputerGuru 4y ago
      That’s some very hypothetical talk. The master bedroom in a typical home is likely and forever going to remain a bedroom, at least if there is sufficient other space available in the home. If you buy a couple of iPads (you and your spouse or kids or whatever) and upgrade them every x years, springing for an extra $100 on each one every time adds up. You never need the cellular module, though it might be nice to have since there are always other, less convenient options (hotspot on phone, standalone hotspot, public Wi-Fi, etc). You cannot take your mantra to its logical conclusion and apply it to everything, everywhere, at least not unless cost is absolutely a non-issue for you.
      - 4y ago
avidiax 4y ago
It's very likely "because he can". 25Gbps would be hard to saturate with an NVME SSD. Even if you like to mirror hard disks to remote locations all the time, you can just RSYNC, and then your needs are limited to the rate of change. I'm getting a 10Gbps from the same provider, and even that is not likely to saturate, and I'll only have 1Gbps CAT6 links. The main benefit is that the clients are absolutely independent, i.e. downloading a Linux image can't affect someone's video conference, since each client can only pull 1Gbps of 10Gbps total.
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  Well that multiple client fairness gets solved by using something like CAKE. There are youtube demos doing exactly this even with links limited to like a few meg.
jeroenhd 4y ago
The author's ISP delivers up to 25/25Gbps connections (and 10gbps connections for the same price as 1gbps connections, about $65 dollars per month converted) so if he is planning on using such a high bandwidth uplink, I don't think ethernet makes a lot of sense. If I had a 10gbps uplink for that price, I'd certainly look into getting more out of my network than just standard ethernet. 10gbit ethernet at least, though fiber may be easier to install depending on the size and layout of the house.
- Salgat 4y ago
  I have 1gbps fiber and it's extremely rare for me to come across a server that supports anything close to that bandwidth. At 10gbps you're able to upload 500GB/hour. For home use this seems extremely unlikely, even if you're using this as part of your job. Even my 4K surveillence cameras only require 20mbps each, that's 50 4k cameras to saturate a 1gbps line.
  - spaceywilly 4y ago
    Have to think about the future though when you’re dealing with running stuff in walls. Think about what would’ve been acceptable throughput 10 years ago. If you built your home network around that, you’d probably be kicking yourself today.
    - Salgat 4y ago
      Even CAT5e supports 10gbps in your typical house (you'll want CAT6 for longer distances though), and 10gbps is likely future proof for the next 25 years (which is crazy because CAT5e came out in 1999).
      - popcalc 4y ago
        And ipv6 came out a year before that.
  - dale_glass 4y ago
    I think of >1 GBps speeds as something that serves burst rather than streaming needs. The use case isn't "I need it to watch youtube", but "I want to be able to restore from backup in hours rather than days", or "I want to play the latest Doom today and not tomorrow". Eg, say you're backing up your data to a remote site. Great idea, but what if you need a restore, how long will that take? Downloading say, 100 TB on a 1 Gbps connection will take you more than a week.
bombcar 4y ago
10Gb normal CAT whatever Ethernet works but the SPF adapters get quite hot. I have a 10Gb backbone for my “servers” and then a single 10Gb Ethernet cable to my main Mac- works well enough for now and probably not worth upgrading until I have internet beyond 10Gb.

runjake 4y ago

This article is great overall, but there is some stuff you should do differently, if you're wanting to follow in the author's footsteps: 1. Just use UPC connectors everywhere unless you have really good reasons not to. 2. Use single mode fiber (SMF) everywhere, including internal wiring. SMF is infinitely scalable for future needs, multimode (MMF) is not. These days the cost differences for cabling and optics is negligible. In fact, SMF cabling is often cheaper than MMF. And no, you generally won’t have to worry about attenuating signal. Also, in my extensive experience, FS.com optics modules are typically better manufactured and more reliable than OEM modules. I resisted the "cheap chinese" modules for a long, long time, but then discovered that most of my uplink carriers used them. It's been years now. I've had many Cisco OEM, Dell OEM, and a couple from another 3rd party manufacturer go bad, but I have yet for one FS.com SFP to go bad. I've got several hundred deployed in a wide variety of environments, from great (cool, clean areas) to bad (hot, dirty areas).

sponaugle 4y ago
Fiber is, as runjake mentioned, very very cheap. The raw cost is less than copper, and that is part of why I ran so much of it in my build. (I am not the OP). I did however include some multimode in that equation only because some AV equipment uses is, and not all of them use replaceable optics modules. I would strongly agree that if you are running fiber, run single mode everywhere. It is amazing how far singlemode fiber can go compared to copper if you are willing to spend money on the endpoints.
- yakak 4y ago
  What kind of equipment outlay was necessary if you don't mind my asking? I.e. the splicer the OP bought seems a bit expensive and impractical to own compared to an ethernet crimper, etc.
  - conk 4y ago
    I just ordered the length I needed from fs.com. Granted I only have a single run between 2 switches home<->garage. I ran the fiber in a PVC conduit. Put a 4”x4” pvc junction box in the run with a couple feet excess coiled inside because my measurements were a little off. At the termination of the runs I have fiber keystone jacks and I can extend/replace the last bit if I need to move equipment.

orliesaurus 4y ago

For those wondering, as the OP didn't mention it super-clearly imho - but his internet provider is able to do 25gbit [1] for CHF 69 a month (+ CHF ~340 set up cost) CHF 1 ~= USD 1 these days Question for OP: Why did you build such an expensive "router" - you justify it by saying you also want to run PiHole, but you probably could have done this whole setup much cheaply [1] https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/ https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/

sschueller 4y ago
The router is more of a server. Pihole is just an example (and yes a $35 pi would be plenty for it) but I have many old servers running all kinds of other things so I decided to update and consolidate some of this.
- minus7 4y ago
  Good joke, there are no $35 pis
  - sschueller 4y ago
    I made this telegram bot[1] a while back that uses rpilocator.com and will notify you as soon as one is available from an official reseller. Those resellers should be selling them at the regular price. But yes, if you want to buy one right now, it won't be $35. [1] https://github.com/sschueller/rpilocatorbot https://github.com/sschueller/rpilocatorbot
  - ComputerGuru 4y ago
    Meh. It’s (supposedly) a transient situation that’ll resolve in due time. More importantly, I and many geeks I know but/bought several when a new model first comes out because they are (were) cheap but electronics wholesalers don’t offer free shipping so it makes sense to buy as many as you think you’ll use (until the next one comes out) in one go to minimize the amortized cost. I miscalculated and ended up using all of mine, but I have friends that still have some of their stock.
- 4y ago

sponaugle 4y ago

Nice read, and great work on the terminations. I did an extensive amount of both fiber and CAT6A in my recent house build, totally about 21 miles together. I did a mixture of single mode and multimode only because of some AV device support for multimode, and because all of it was so cheap compared to the labor and time. I ended up with significant fiber runs between the MDF and IDF closets, the server room, and all of the AV endpoints which is a typical layout. I did run single mode fiber to all 18 wireless AP access-point locations, but I suspect those will not get used much given I also have 2 CAT6A shielded wires to each AP that can support 10G AND provided power. I do use a direct fiber connection in my office to provide 10G to my network core from that desktop, but that could have been done over copper as well. Perhaps the biggest gain over copper is my switch interconnects which are 40G from the upstairs closet to the server room. If needed it would be easy to upgrade those to 100G, and since there are 24 strands available you really could expand as far as you are every going to need to go with WDM and the like. The one really good use case for only fiber was running it down my driveway to our gate, which is about a 1/4 mile in distance. That is something that would be more challenging to do with copper. [although I do have copper installed]. From my perspective the cost of running fiber was almost 0 compared to the entire project because so much more cost is involved in path finding and clearing ( cutting holes, etc), and the actual pulling. I was very fortunate to have a large group of friends who spent a couple of days working with me to do the large pulls, combined with many weeks of evenings and weekends doing the rest myself. Many hands makes that task much much easier. My particular build is documented in a build thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-side-shop-portland.409988/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-s...

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
I can’t wait to digest this later on a desktop. Thanks for sharing it and documenting it. 21 miles! Reminds me of the guy’s house in Ex Machina.
spockz 4y ago
What kind of house needs 18 AP? Was this in an existing house or an house being constructed?

joelhaasnoot 4y ago

I learnt a lot of these things the hard way - this is a good resource describing the different connectors and what they mean

jonatron 4y ago

You'd think simplex short boot LC would be able to get through small conduit. Although you can always stick the fusion splicer on eBay, it's not like it's worthless now.

sponaugle 4y ago
Yes, I did some pulls with pre-termed LCs since the LCs are so small. They were easy to pull and worked fantastic.

edude03 4y ago

I'm in the middle of running fiber in my house as well but much less elaborate than OP. I bought a few 100m MPO terminated cables off eBay, a few MPO to LC splitters from FS.com and a few 100m capable optics from eBay and fs.com. All my switches have sfp ports so it was pretty straight forward

sokoloff 4y ago
100m?! How big is your house?

kube-system 4y ago

Is the equipment used for termination more expensive than the splicing equipment? I just use premade MMF in my house.

sschueller 4y ago
I have no experience with terminating connectors directly. There appear to be all kinds available, even ones with gel inside them but they suffer a lot more loss than if I splice a fiber. Using the splicer gave me the flexibility to splice pig-tail ends or just two fibers together with a small loss.
- archi42 4y ago
  From what I read (never tried and not my area of expertise) for our short runs at home loss isn't that big of an issue, especially for 10km transceivers.
- mrb 4y ago
  I have no experience either. But terminating seems easy, for example this guy is terminating singlemode fiber in just a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKDYw0jPskc&t=2m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKDYw0jPskc&t=2m35s He uses DINTEK Singlemode ezi-FIBER Connectors which have a low loss of 0.1-0.2 dB: https://www.dintek.com.tw/index.php/singlemode-ezi-fiber-connector.html https://www.dintek.com.tw/index.php/singlemode-ezi-fiber-con... Such a low loss seems to be a non-issue for short fiber runs in a single residence, and cheaper than using a fusion splicer.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    My loss per splice was around 0.01 dB to 0.02 dB according to the splicer.
    - mrb 4y ago
      Your 10G SFP modules have a power budget of 6.2 dB https://www.fs.com/products/11603.html https://www.fs.com/products/11603.html Assuming zero losses at the fusion-spliced pigtail connectors this would be enough for a ~12.4 km fiber link (~0.5 dB attenuation per km). With the connectors I linked, 0.2 dB loss at each end, the power budget is reduced to 5.8 dB which would be enough for a ~11.6 km fiber link. As you see this makes no difference for a residence where all your links are much shorter than even 0.1 km ! All I'm saying is you had cheaper options than buying a fusion splicer. But I understand you for buying it — it's a cool tool to have fun with, and to get some experience. I would have probably done the same since fiber is also a hobby of mine (though I reiterate I have never built a cable myself) :)

mr_sturd 4y ago

I always end up green with envy that people seem to have pre-existing conduits in their walls for running new cables. There's no way, in my old house, of doing this without some invasive smashing in to walls.

NegativeLatency 4y ago
An attic or unfinished basement can make this much easier
yakubin 4y ago
I've watched the video and I still don't understand how you get the wire through the conduit though. Part of the video seemed to happen through telekinesis: the part where a wire magically came out of the wall, allowing you to pull from the other side.
- js2 4y ago
  I'm not sure which video you mean, but you use either a fish tape or a pull line. I know that Verizon also has fiber with a stiffer jacket that they can push through conduit a pretty good distance. I know this because I helped the Verizon installer run FIOS at my daughter's apartment in a building that was over 100 years old. The conduit had a crimp in it so it took the two of us a while to get past that.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    Probably referring to this demonstration video regarding the FTTH Squeeze plate where the pull line comes flying through the conduit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSpp4B9-X4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSpp4B9-X4
    - js2 4y ago
      That's a fish tape being pushed through from the other end.
- 4y ago

runjake 4y ago

Although this stuff is all mundane to me (network engineer), it was a long, fun read about a layman dipping his toe^W entire leg up to the armpits in networking.

kkfx 4y ago

While I like the idea I do not like much fiber or to be more precise their live stuff, since they degrade far faster than copper. A copper switch might work well for 10+ years, and since at home we normally not need such extreme performances and these days 2.5GBE on cat 8.1 copper are relatively cheap and common... Sure, it's very "blinkenlichten" but...

awestroke 4y ago
Fiber degradation is a problem after 30-40 years, not really something to take into consideration
detaro 4y ago
What exactly degrades in a fiber setup?
- kkfx 4y ago
  The active apparatus. Not the fiber, but still a cost issue.

mschuster91 4y ago

> My ISP plans on proving 100gbits in about 2 years so I don’t need pull new fiber if I decide to upgrade. Jesus. Meanwhile, here in Germany, right in the center of Munich the best I can get is 100/40, because while there is FTTB buildout, the last 20m in the building go through the telephone wiring from the late 80s.

bombcar 4y ago
If you really want it, and are willing to pay, you can often negotiate with the building owner to get the last 20m run (up to and including conduit hidden on the outside of the building, etc). If enough people in the building care, it might even be relatively cheap.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  The latter is the problem. Half the people in the building are old, the other half of them are happy with the way it is - I'm the only IT guy. Might be possible to pull fiber through the conduits, but not sure if the Mnet FTTB box can actually give me fiber - I think it's a miniature DSLAM only.
  - namibj 4y ago
    Mnet should be able to CWDM (of they don't just have a fiber to spare for it) you a link on the DSLAM's fiber uplink. Provided the building owner allows the fiber from the DSLAM to you. They could also put an Ethernet switch needy to the DSLAM so more people could share one uplink connection.

shmerl 4y ago

> In order to use the SFP+ modules you need the correct PCIe cards on your PC Are there good SFP+ USB 4 adapters that work on Linux? One of the bad trends in recent motherboards is minimal number of PCIe slots, which are very clearly focused on GPUs only. So basically there is no room for any extra devices. Their idea seems to be pushing everyone to USB 4 for use cases like that (which supposedly should be able to route even PCIe?).

sschueller 4y ago
I only know of this thunderbolt version but I do not know how the linux support is. https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.... . For SFP28 there seems to be nothing available at this time that would work via USB.
- shmerl 4y ago
  Thanks! They seem to be listing Linux. Would it work with USB 4? Whole Thunderbolt / USB situation is somewhat confusing.

dekhn 4y ago

Thanks- I rarely consider upgrading my home systems until I think I have a good understanding of all the details and I see that fiber is still a mess (have to choose single mode versus multi mode and a number of other details).

minus7 4y ago

I also installed fiber a while ago after being told "this isn't hard" by Michael Stapelberg's post [1]. Luckily I managed to get by with patch cables; a 30m cables really goes a long way! I even managed to get a duplex LC through a 16mm conduit with a pretty tight 90° bend, but just with lube, quite some force and luck. I can just recommend going for it if you're curious. Cables and tranceivers really aren't expensive from fs.com (though their sales people may start bothering you). Edit: And old, used network cards from ebay, of course. [1]: https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-home-network/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-ho...

archi42 4y ago
Kudos for pulling those through these small conduits :) For anyone trying to emulate this: I would very much NOT recommend using 16mm conduits for LC duplex patch cables. It's doable for some short/straight runs, but the connectors like to get stuck in bends. For me it was the final r=3cm bend in a ~20m conduit. I ended up pulling Cat7 into that conduit and routed the fiber through a tree-like network of wider backup conduits. Since the backup conduit ends up in the wrong corner of the room, I might one day 1. cut the 30m fiber patch cable, 2. pull it into the original 16mm conduit (w/o connectors), replacing the Cat7 and 3. splice the fiber again. Using a "mechanical splice" that should be doable quite cheaply, but I didn't yet get around to learning/practicing that.
- minus7 4y ago
  You can also use a pre-polished connector instead of splicing e.g.: https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/35165.html https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/35165.html (there's instructions if you scroll down)

yrgulation 4y ago

This is likely not useful in most west european homes (even gigabit connections are unheard of in the uk, 10 megs being advertised as “superfast”, let alone tens of gigs). But still a fun project!

voidwtf 4y ago
They'll eventually be dragged into the future by requirement, 1GbE is already standard on most equipment, with 2.5GbE and 1+gbit wifi becoming more common on consumer equipment. The increasing reliance of on-demand delivery of various forms of content, from multimedia to gaming, is already pushing 100Mbps connections to where 10Mbps connections were less than 5 years ago. I think its worth choosing fiber in a new deployment, at least at the distribution level (between floors, or zones of the home). Most new computers come with ultra fast solid state storage, so even between systems on a local network, 10GbE speeds could be useful. With the way the price of copper is going, and how much less efficient rj45/copper chipsets are compared to optical, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a shift to optical as a replacement to rj45 in the next decade.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  At a time when more internet developed countries are moving towards 10gb connections, the uk is moving towards 1gb. Instead of playing catch it should lead. Now if only there were competent people in power.
eertami 4y ago
That's because the UK is way behind mainland Europe in this regard. My previous house in a very busy area of London had 80mbps max... However in a small town in Switzerland we have 25Gbps available. The UK could be in this position, but Thatcher happened unfortunately, and the project was canned.
matthewmacleod 4y ago
About 70% of UK homes have access to a gigabit connection through either fibre or the Virgin Media HFC network. FTTP coverage is about 40% nationwide. It’s not that rare.

Makobado1 4y ago

yuvadam 4y ago

Awesome project, I did something very similar at home, but used fiber only to connect switches and routers around the house. PoE is still a must for powering wireless access point and perimeter security cameras.

alberth 4y ago
PoE is a huge reason why CAT-x cabling will be around for a long time.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

blinded 4y ago

nice article, fun project. I did cat 6e. Was gonna do fiber but my telco and modem dont support above 1 gig. but on the lan its 10g.

rr808 4y ago

Wiring for me has been a waste of time. I spent a good amount of time wiring the house with cat 6 cabling. I had our TV on a hard wired network which felt great, no drop outs, no wifi noise. I then bought a roku box and left on wifi for a while. Its still on wifi, works great and kept it there. Family mostly uses wifi now, no PCs using the hard-won ethernet jacks.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Ya, my house is wired for cat5 but no point to use it. It just isn’t necessary.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  To my surprise, my parents use the Cat5 cables I installed in their house 20+ years go. In a brick house, wireless isn't a good choice for desktop computers and smart TVs.

moogly 4y ago

I did this as a small-scale experiment/proof-of-concept earlier this year in my 2 br apartment, preparing for wiring for 10G (and possibly beyond as the years pass) when I move into my house later this. I went with singlemode fiber. Don't really see the point of multimode. At all. After doing some research I am not sure who it is made for. Sure, the BiDi SFP+ modules are a bit more expensive but not overly so. The fiber is cheaper. It's easier to splice/use field assembly connectors if needed. Much easier to hide the cables. If you go with 0.9 mm you can even hide it in nooks and crannies under door trim etc. It is future proof. SMF will always be supported. Now the only problem is that the Mikrotik CRS routers I want to get are either out of stock or have insanely inflated prices. Seems to still be affected by component shortages. I already have a couple of CRS305 and some CCS610, but I'm going to need more of those now plus a CRS309 to scale it all up.

stephen_g 4y ago
I think back 15 years or so ago, multimode fibre and optics were quite substantially cheaper. Given that you could still get several hundred metres to over a kilometer with the slower speeds available at the time, it probably was worthwhile. But by the time I got into fibre stuff SMF was not much more expensive, so I've always just used it by default.
max51 4y ago
>I went with singlemode fiber. Don't really see the point of multimode. At all. After doing some research I am not sure who it is made for. They are cheaper and and you don't need the extra range of single mode if you are only wiring your house/apartment.

Klasiaster 4y ago

Meanwhile the wifi router I got from my provider maxes out at ~5 MB/s for local transfer between two devices…

ezfe 4y ago
Well that's stupid - don't pay to rent those shitty boxes (unless it's free, I suppose)

Faaak 4y ago

3M sells fusion-less APC and UPC connectors that you can insert into any (well cut) fiber. I used them to fiber my home too without using a fusion machine. I was really dubious at first but they work really well

vegasbrianc 4y ago

Great article. Amazing the publishers first blog post and front page of HN. Well done ;)

sschueller 4y ago
Thank you and the others who also submitted it as originally this post was flagged. Probably because I changed the title after submitting it to "Show HN" but I am unsure. I am glad now that I spent the time to put it on github.io and not on some old server of mine that would have been hugged to death.
- divbzero 4y ago
  With your 10gbit+ connections serving static files from an old server would probably work just fine!

DeathArrow 4y ago

Is there a cheap as in < $1000 router with 10GbE (for fiber or copper) ports?

nullify88 4y ago
Mikrotik has some very affordable & capable routers under $1000 with SPF or SPF+. Depends on how many ports, but they'd start with RB5009UG+S+IN which has a suggested retail price of $219.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  Thanks I will give Mikrotik a look.
avidiax 4y ago
https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs You pay the SFP module tax on every port for that model, and also have a loud fan. You also probably can't put a copper SFP module in every cage without overheating. https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009upr_s_in https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009upr_s_in That will let you receive 10Gbps fiber, and maybe route 3Gbps or so. No fans. No SFP module tax. And PoE on every port. Mikrotik is definitely missing a product that has maybe 1 SFP28 port, 1 SFP+ port, 4 10GBps ports and 5 2.5Gbps ports. That would let you take in 25Gbps fiber, have a 10Gbps fiber run to a switch someplace, and run 10Gbps ethernet as needed.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  I need 10Gbps in, two 10Gbps out and another 1Gbit out if it doesn't have WiFi.
  - fulafel 4y ago
    Routing performance is often lower than switching/bridging performance.
  - avidiax 4y ago

y04nn 4y ago

10 Gbps is really a game changer if you have large quantity of data to transfer (multiple terabytes), but 10G cards and equipment are power hungry so I only put out a dangling fiber one in a while to make a backup but the speed is appreciable. Also I'm still looking for a solution setup a ~200m link, Ethernet and WLAN are not an option, so I'm only left with fiber, 1Gbps would be sufficient, but I won't be able to do it myself because of the price of a splicer. I thought about asking an installer to do the splicing for me, it shouldn't be that expensive, maybe on day.

yuvadam 4y ago
Any reason you can't use pre-terminated fiber?
- y04nn 4y ago
  I have to pass the fiber cable through conduits that are not very large and they are not straight. So I will need to use a pull line. Using pre-terminated fiber will either bock or destroy the connector.
  - yuvadam 4y ago
    A single LC connector (used on a bidi transceiver) has no problem going through 16mm conduit
  - dale_glass 4y ago
    Duplex LC connectors can be split apart and later reassembled. With a bit of fiddling and taping things you can get a cable through a hole that's too small for an assembled duplex. https://www.flukenetworks.com/sites/default/files/blog/101_series_know_your_fiber_connectors_3_1.png https://www.flukenetworks.com/sites/default/files/blog/101_s... http://www.fiber-optic-cable-sale.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Simplex-duplex-LC-connector.jpg http://www.fiber-optic-cable-sale.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
    - y04nn 4y ago

fifteenforty 4y ago

Does anyone have any more info on Huawei’s FTTR concept? https://www.huawei.com/en/technology-insights/inspiration-lab/fttr-solution https://www.huawei.com/en/technology-insights/inspiration-la... To me it looks like just standard, modern bend insensitive single mode fibre but in a clear jacket.

irusensei 4y ago

Is fiber overall less power hungry than twisted pair or copper? Asking for solar rural aspirations deep into my mind. I like the idea of it not being conductive thus not vulnerable to electrical discharges.

pabs3 4y ago

I wonder if this is on an active or passive incoming fibre connection.

tristor 4y ago

I ran fiber between the network core and my bedroom (which housed my home lab) at my parents old house circa 2004, because I got access to cheap fiber and a fusion splicer through school at the time. I’ve never run fiber since because the usefulness of POE outweighs any benefits fiber might bring and STP is good enough in home environments.

Maursault 4y ago

25Gb Internet? Bandwidth in the US sucks! But I have to admit I have trouble saturating 35Mb, and I'd happily pay half as much for 10Mb or 5Mb if it were available. Also, tablets would be pretty annoying without wifi.

Dblue 4y ago

Do it in a different way that will makes it latest

alanwreath 4y ago

I recently had my home wired with cat8. In the back of my head I had wondered if anyone was doing fiber instead. Nice to see this write up of your journey. I wonder what convinced you to go this route, like some of the benefits up and above just regular Ethernet. I’ve noticed ad’s like the one in this page https://shop.fibercommand.com/pages/applications-home-builders https://shop.fibercommand.com/pages/applications-home-builde... And wondered if it was fake or not.

angry_octet 4y ago

Contrary to what the author and others have written, I would discourage wiring with single mode (SM). For ethernet the cost of modules and patches might not seem so significant, but structured fiber can be used for things other than ethernet, for which SM is vastly more expensive than multimode (MM). Think 4k display port for cinema/follow-me TV, although that is being replaced with SDVoE for 4k@60. However, you do want to use higher quality OM3 or OM4 MM cable (aqua or violet sheath). If required you can carry SM origin signals over OM3/4 by using a mode conditioning patch cable. In terms of pulling, a lubed cable sock can get through lots of places, and save a ton on termination. Cablers often use a strip of yellow tongue (the nylon tongue on chipboard flooring panels) to poke through a run, and then run a conduit or pull cord. Pre terminated MPO/MPT (which is 12 core) and MPT breakout fans are very cheap in comparison to splicing. It's generally much cheaper to run more fiber than it is to run conduit so you can run more fiber.